Which house system is right for you? Any precise way to "know"?

[MJ82]

This is a generic question about "knowing" which house system one should use for one's chart.

I know that a lot of what goes into determining this is the feeling of which system "fits" - i.e. are you more of a 1st house sun than a 2nd house sun etc.

But is there a more accurate way to "know" which system to use? I mean, to my ignorant mind, since much of astrology is based on precision (time of birth etc and degrees) it seems only logical that one house system is "correct" and the other "incorrect" for a particular person's chart, no?

So, is there a way to tell?

[Moog]

I'm still playing with house systems. I am finding that looking at the ruler of the house/sign the planet is in can help fine tune my understanding of how that planet acts within a person's make up.

For example, my friend has a 12th house moon in Capricorn, and she channels and expresses that through her music (Saturn is in Gemini/5th house). If you knew her, her chart, and her music you'd be able to see how apropos this is

[tee_jay66]

Originally Posted by MJ82

This is a generic question about "knowing" which house system one should use for one's chart.

I know that a lot of what goes into determining this is the feeling of which system "fits" - i.e. are you more of a 1st house sun than a 2nd house sun etc.

But is there a more accurate way to "know" which system to use? I mean, to my ignorant mind, since much of astrology is based on precision (time of birth etc and degrees) it seems only logical that one house system is "correct" and the other "incorrect" for a particular person's chart, no?

So, is there a way to tell?

difficult topic. Ive played around with house systems and have posted questions here myself. The only one that resonates with me and seems accurate from a psychological perspective is 'whole signs'. Equal and placidus seem way off in places.
I really do think its a personal thing

[Rebel Uranian]

I use whole signs because everything else makes determining the strength and prominence of planets too complicated.

[astrologer50]

There are *masses* of thread on AW covering this topic, just use the search feature......

[MJ82]

Thanks for your responses. I have read up on this in other threads, but my question was really if anyone knows of a precise way to know which system applies to a particular chart?

Is it really all a matter of which "glove fits"?

I don't even understand what constitutes a house, when thinking of it astronomically, but if it is a position in the sky, then it's spatial/physical (so to speak) in the same way that a constellation is, no?

And you can't read a chart to be valid in more than one house system can you? So is there a way of knowing which one (accurately) was in place at the time of your birth? Or am I getting the whole concept of house systems wrong?

[astrologer50]

Originally Posted by tee_jay66

difficult topic. Ive played around with house systems and have posted questions here myself. The only one that resonates with me and seems accurate from a psychological perspective is 'whole signs'. Equal and placidus seem way off in places.
I really do think its a personal thing

Now you see, I tried whole and placidus and they definately don't work for ME either. they shift my planets two whole signs in placidus....

Throughout the forums but mainly in natal astrology there are two main branches Placidus (unequal size houses) v Equal House (whereby each house is same size) but lots more……. For more information on these go here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_house_system#Equal_House
http://www.astrolozy.com/article19.asp
http://www.skyviewzone.com/birthinfoforms2/housesexplained.htm
For further research try here...
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3280&highlight=placidus+equal
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=638&highlight=house+system
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=152849#post152849
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=189223#post189223

It's only with study and research will you be able to assess where your planets are deposited and in which houses... thus see which 'glove fits'


“The Equal House System avoids the problem with the Placidus which results in extremely uneven houses if the native should be born in extreme northern or southern latitudes.
Each sign is fully represented on a house cusp.
Debbie Kempton Smith the author of Secrets from an StarGazer's Notebook recommends either Equal House or Koch (unequal).
Margaret Hone puts forth an excellent argument in favor of Equal House in her book, "Applied Astrology" which is why it is the default for SkyViewZone.
Jeff Mayo and the Faculty for Astrological Studies also favors this house system.”
http://www.solsticepoint.com/astrologersmemorial/hone.html
http://www.astrolozy.com/article19.asp
http://www.aquamoonlight.co.uk/systems.html

http://www.skyviewzone.com/birthinfoforms2/housesexplained.htm
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Z0nnE2IP7A4C&pg=PA167&dq=astrology+equal+ house&as_brr=3&ei=i0iJS-PlGo3mygS89Nn8DQ&cd=2#v=onepage&q=astrology%20equa l%20house&f=false

EQUAL HOUSES
“Another of the three most popular house systems is Equal houses which is just what its name implies. All the houses have the same degree on each cusp, and there are no interceptions. Equal house systems are especially useful for people born in the northernmost and southernmost latitudes, and this system is the most popular one in use outside of the United States.”
http://www.esotericapublications.com/article-511.html

“Equal house system is the only system that is erected in the plane of the Earths orbit. The zodiac is erected in the plane of the Earths orbit around the Sun which comprises of a 360 degree circle that surrounds the Earth. The mid-heaven is often more, or less than ninety degrees (three signs) from the ascendant, therefore it is not often placed on the tenth house cusp, but marked where it appears in the mid-heaven according to the latitude and longitude of birth. The mid-heaven is taken as an important point; it is the point of self-mastery.”
http://marianneohagan.com/house.htm

[astrologer50]

“The simplest approaches, the equal-house and whole-sign methods, merely require knowledge of the ascendant or ascending sign, and an equal division throughout the rest of the zodiac eliminates the need for any complicated calculations
Yet recent research into classical astrology has created a renewed interest in these simple techniques from a more scholarly perspective. The point of strength is that, regardless of the originating theory behind house division, in practice at least, classical astrologers tended to tie the houses to the signs, apparently concurring with Pelletier, who wrote in defence of the equal house method”
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/houprob4.html

Equal House System
“The equal house system calculates the degree of the Ascendant, which is used as the cusp of the first house. Some astrologers do not like this system because it does not equate the 10th house cusp with the Midheaven (which indicates the degree that is highest in the sky above the horizon at the place of birth). However, the Midheaven can certaintly still be noted in this house system as well as any planet forming an aspect to that angle.” http://www.astrolady.com/housesystems.php

[KIRONO]

Originally Posted by MJ82

This is a generic question about "knowing" which house system one should use for one's chart.

I know that a lot of what goes into determining this is the feeling of which system "fits" - i.e. are you more of a 1st house sun than a 2nd house sun etc.

But is there a more accurate way to "know" which system to use? I mean, to my ignorant mind, since much of astrology is based on precision (time of birth etc and degrees) it seems only logical that one house system is "correct" and the other "incorrect" for a particular person's chart, no?

So, is there a way to tell?

Hi. I would like to put in my thought for what its worth. It seems to me that the Houses are the daily equivalent of the Signs. If the Signs are Equal divisions of the Yearly Cycle then the Houses should be Equal divisions of the Daily cycle.
Furthermore if you think properly about a chart you will realise that it is actually 2 charts in 1; the Signs(Yearly Cycle) and the Houses(Daily Cycle). If you were to strip out all the planets and just look at the Sun you would see that it travels anti-clockwise thru the Yearly Cycle (Signs) but CLOCKWISE thru the Daily Cycle (Houses). From Sunrise to Noon is therefore equal to Spring and should be numbered 1 to 3, and so on for the rest.
I have tried this system of Equal Houses Clockwise (DEOSIL) and it makes sense to me.

[astrologer50]

Originally Posted by KIRONO

Hi. I would like to put in my thought for what its worth. It seems to me that the Houses are the daily equivalent of the Signs. If the Signs are Equal divisions of the Yearly Cycle then the Houses should be Equal divisions of the Daily cycle.
Furthermore if you think properly about a chart you will realise that it is actually 2 charts in 1; the Signs(Yearly Cycle) and the Houses(Daily Cycle). If you were to strip out all the planets and just look at the Sun you would see that it travels anti-clockwise thru the Yearly Cycle (Signs) but CLOCKWISE thru the Daily Cycle (Houses). From Sunrise to Noon is therefore equal to Spring and should be numbered 1 to 3, and so on for the rest.
I have tried this system of Equal Houses Clockwise (DEOSIL) and it makes sense to me.

i don't know of *any* house system that moves planets, transits, progressions, solar arcs in a clockwise direction and that includes Equal house....

[astrologer50]

Originally Posted by MJ82

Thanks for your responses. I have read up on this in other threads, but my question was really if anyone knows of a precise way to know which system applies to a particular chart?

Is it really all a matter of which "glove fits"?

I don't even understand what constitutes a house, when thinking of it astronomically, but if it is a position in the sky, then it's spatial/physical (so to speak) in the same way that a constellation is, no?

And you can't read a chart to be valid in more than one house system can you? So is there a way of knowing which one (accurately) was in place at the time of your birth? Or am I getting the whole concept of house systems wrong?

perhaps this is where you are going wrong astrology is only loosely linked to astronomy. to me these are two separate modalities

[KIRONO]

Originally Posted by astrologer50

i don't know of *any* house system that moves planets, transits, progressions, solar arcs in a clockwise direction and that includes Equal house....

Hello again. I have an Astrocalc program which offers reverse house numbering. I am sure that option is available because others use it and not just me. As I said I have tried it and it makes sense to me. In my own chart, as well as others I've looked at, using the houses with the reversed numbering makes much more sense. I suggest that others try it and judge for themselves.

[Moog]

Originally Posted by KIRONO

Hello again. I have an Astrocalc program which offers reverse house numbering. I am sure that option is available because others use it and not just me. As I said I have tried it and it makes sense to me. In my own chart, as well as others I've looked at, using the houses with the reversed numbering makes much more sense. I suggest that others try it and judge for themselves.

How does that work then? I'm imagining that the 1st house remains, and then the 2nd swaps with 12 and 3rd with 11th?

[KIRONO]

Originally Posted by Moog

How does that work then? I'm imagining that the 1st house remains, and then the 2nd swaps with 12 and 3rd with 11th?

Hello again. If you don't have access to Astrocalc I can say that what is by other systems the 12th House becomes the 1ST (the ascendant is the same) and what was the 11th becomes the 2nd and so on. It is really easy and logical to number 1,2 and 3, from the Ascendant(dawn) up to (M.C) Noon(idealised). If the 'idealised' day starts as 6 AM and someone is born at 7 AM then the Sun has moved from the horizon towards the MidHeaven in a CLOCKWISE direction on the chart. They are born in the 1st. division of the daily cycle (equivalent to Aries the 1ST. sign) not the 12th. This is easier to think about by considering the 'normal' chart as 2 charts; Signs as 1 circle and Houses as another circle. They are nested together for convenience but could easily be looked at separately.

[sequestra]

Oh hon, this is my biggest issue at the moment too. It's driving me nuts. But I'm erring toward whole signs tbh, as it seems to fit most accurately (though it's hard to disengage completely from what I was "brought up with" in placidus). Placidus could fit too, but I'm currently of the view that whole signs fits better. Equal signs doesn't work for me at all. There is no way in hell my mercury is in the 2nd and sun in 3rd. Nope nuh-uh, no way.

This article on whole signs is pretty inspiring/influential http://horoscopicastrologyblog.com/2...e-sign-houses/ , (and so is Robert Hand).

[Moog]

Originally Posted by KIRONO

Hello again. If you don't have access to Astrocalc I can say that what is by other systems the 12th House becomes the 1ST (the ascendant is the same) and what was the 11th becomes the 2nd and so on. It is really easy and logical to number 1,2 and 3, from the Ascendant(dawn) up to (M.C) Noon(idealised). If the 'idealised' day starts as 6 AM and someone is born at 7 AM then the Sun has moved from the horizon towards the MidHeaven in a CLOCKWISE direction on the chart. They are born in the 1st. division of the daily cycle (equivalent to Aries the 1ST. sign) not the 12th. This is easier to think about by considering the 'normal' chart as 2 charts; Signs as 1 circle and Houses as another circle. They are nested together for convenience but could easily be looked at separately.

Thanks. That is interesting. If I am picturing this correctly, you're numbering houses in the order of diurnal motion... the first house is the first that the planets rise into over the horizon, then the 2nd, 3rd etc. through the day?

But then, do you read the houses with the same associations as in traditional house systems, or do they have new meanings?

I'll need to think about and play with that sometime.

[KIRONO]

Originally Posted by Moog

Thanks. That is interesting. If I am picturing this correctly, you're numbering houses in the order of diurnal motion... the first house is the first that the planets rise into over the horizon, then the 2nd, 3rd etc. through the day?

But then, do you read the houses with the same associations as in traditional house systems, or do they have new meanings?

I'll need to think about and play with that sometime.

Hi again. I am happy this is generating some interest. First i'd like to say that this is an Astrocalc option, suggesting that others think the same way. I agree with idea and use it, and in my mind it has become DEOSIL. Yes the 1st house by this system is where the planets move into after rising and the meaning is the same as always for the 1st House, being somewhat similar to Aries. After all Aries is the 1st Sign of Spring(Northern Hemisphere- things are different in the Southern Hemisphere but that's a whole other topic) when the sun is gaining in strength and daylength is increasing. Likewise the 1st part of the day after DAWN is also when the sun is gaining in strength and should equate to Aries. The sun reaches peak strength at the Summer Solstice (equivalent to NOON) after which it begins to weaken so the Houses after Noon(4,5 and 6) when the sun is weakening should be equivalent to Summer; Cancer, Leo, Gemini.

[MSO]

Whole signs. Use it, love it, live it.

[Rebel Uranian]

Originally Posted by astrologer50

perhaps this is where you are going wrong astrology is only loosely linked to astronomy. to me these are two separate modalities

Astronomy - the measurement of the stars
Astrology - the study of the relationship of the stars to human events

Hmm, I wonder if I could do the latter without measuring the stars first...

Originally Posted by MSO

Whole signs. Use it, love it, live it.

If you don't at least like whole signs for one reason, then you haven't tried calculating all the dispositorships of planets even once. In every other house system, the primary ruler of a planet is the ruler of the sign on the house cusp and the secondary ruler is the ruler of the sign the planet is actually in, which is often different and a pain in the neck to bother with. There's also no way my Mercury and Venus are in the 12th. I talk too much and I made all of my avatars and signature pictures, at least by editing some other picture. I couldn't stop using Mercury or Venus if I tried. Plus I'm really ambitious because of Mars in the 10th. As much as I don't want to admit it, yes, my Sun is in the 2nd.

Edit:

Houses:
Moon in the 7th (Chaldean house) - I want my partner to be a nurturer so I can use my Mars in the 10th and not have to deal with that shtuff. I'm also really receptive (Moon) to the public (7th house) unlike most people who have no clue what's going on in the world at a given time.
Sun in the 2nd - I identify myself by my possessions (mostly accomplishments and talents,) not how I am/personality traits.
Mercury in the 1st (Joy) - I'm really intellectual and I talk a lot.
Venus in the 1st - I like arts and stuff. I make all my own graphics (with occasional editing of someone else's) such as avatars and signatures on this site.
Mars in the 10th (Chaldean house) - I'm really ambitious. My mom (MC = nurturer/usually mom, IC = breadwinner/usually dad) was uncompromising and quite assertive and bossy. People expect a lot of me and I expect a lot of me.
Jupiter in the 1st or 2nd (mostly 2nd but it's definitely on a cusp) - I expect to get a lot of money and I expect to work for it.
Saturn in the 4th (Joy) - Uncomfortable around family-relate junk. Even seeing a picture of a baby on TV, such as on a hospital commercial, often makes me feel weird but I don't show it.

[MSO]

Originally Posted by Rebel Uranian

Astronomy - the measurement of the stars
Astrology - the study of the relationship of the stars to human events

Hmm, I wonder if I could do the latter without measuring the stars first...

LOL like she needs to know where any planets are at She can tell by the color they give off

[Fragoso]

Hello.
I use placidus as a system. I have tried whole signs but i can't fit there (no way i could be neptune in 7th and jupiter in 4th).

Fragoso,
Trying to have an open mind.

[MSO]

Originally Posted by Fragoso

Hello.
I use placidus as a system. I have tried whole signs but i can't fit there (no way i could be neptune in 7th and jupiter in 4th).

Fragoso,
Trying to have an open mind.

Maybe your rising is different, which will put Jupiter in the 3rd and Craptune in the 6th.

[Fragoso]

Originally Posted by MSO

Maybe your rising is different, which will put Jupiter in the 3rd and Craptune in the 6th.

My rising is in 28ºof cancer very close of leo. But i am 100% sure it isn't leo ascendent xD.

Frag

[Rebel Uranian]

What sources are you using for your birth time?

By the way, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto through the houses are not that important. I still wonder why we don't use Eris...

[MSO]

Originally Posted by Rebel Uranian

What sources are you using for your birth time?

By the way, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto through the signs are not that important. I still wonder why we don't use Eris...

Fixt that for ya.

You can't be sure frag, your Mars is in Cancer... you can't judge your ascendant based on Cancer traits alone...