Effects of planets

[Rebel Uranian]

"Is there anything Mars doesn't stand for?" (forgot source)

How does one tell what a planet does on a given chart? There are people who get luck (ruled by Jupiter) but are not remotely philosophical (also ruled by Jupiter) and there are also philosophers who have terrible luck. Unless astrology has definite interpretations for everything, we could just be making stuff up.

[RaptInReverie]

The house and sign modify the planet's energy.

[Rebel Uranian]

I know that, but *see above about lucky people vs. philosophers.*

[RaptInReverie]

There is no such thing as "luck", but a philosopher might have Jupiter in Gemini or Aquarius, or in the 9th house, or maybe with aspects to Mercury and Uranus.

[Rebel Uranian]

I agree that there is no such thing as luck, but some people win a lot of lotteries etc. so what would distinguish a lottery winner from a philosopher?

[MSO]

I don't think I can answer your question in any definitive way, but I can help you to appreciate the depth that astrology has.

An example would be Jupiter and Saturn. Jupiter, when placed in the 2nd House, shows a person who could expect to make quite a few bucks in his life. However, this usually comes from his own work/profession, in other words, he earns the money. Saturn, when placed in the 8th House, shows an inheritance is coming. This is money (not necessarily in the liquid form as spendable money, but still valuable) recieved from the parents or other older figures. People don't normally think Saturn and making money go hand-in-hand, but sometimes they do.

Another example is determining a person's temperament. It's not as easy as just looking to the rising sign and any planets in it. You have to calculate the humours each planet has in relation to the Sun's position and the signs they're posited in. This is how you can end up with a fiery, aggressive personality, yet have Cancer rising and a Taurus Sun. All it would take is Mars in Aries forming a partile square to the AC, and the Moon in Leo with a separating square from the Sun. Bam, instant choler.

Planets work in weird ways. Astrology is very deep. The more you learn, the more fascinating it becomes!

[Rebel Uranian]

...I know that much, but how do you tell if a person is going to win the lottery or study philosophy? Most interpretations of Jupiter include both...

[MSO]

"Is there anything Pluto doesn't stand for?" - MSO

Just wanted to type that

But anyways, the point I was trying to make is that it's a lot more complex than just what planet it is. Jupiter stands for both, but not all the time. This could be a good chance to study the charts of lottery winners and see if Jupiter even has anything to do with it.

[Rebel Uranian]

How do you definitively tell which time it stands for which one?

[MSO]

Possibly when it's in the 5th House. The 5th is great for gambling and what is playing the lottery if it's not gambling? The only problem is, Jupiter doesn't do so well in the northern half of the chart.

Just hypothetical here... thinking in type if you will... Maybe if Jupiter was in Sagittarius in the 5th House and forming a partile trine to Mars lying smackdab on the ascendant... and the Sun is in Aries, also partile trine to Mars and Jupiter... And there was Saturn in Pisces in the 8th... Maybe.

[astrologer50]

Originally Posted by Rebel Uranian

...I know that much, but how do you tell if a person is going to win the lottery or study philosophy? Most interpretations of Jupiter include both...

Simply put NO, astrology has it limitations..

What Astrology Can and Can Not Do
http://www.ofspirit.com/susanmiller1.htm
http://www.cafeastrology.com/articles/whatastrologycandoforyou.html
http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_kdvalue_e.htm

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=234549&postcount=7
Perhaps you should read this thread entitled: astrology predicts meanings, not events
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17546&page=2

you'll get too many threads. If this doesn’t get results then try google

In the beginning of Liz Greene's (famous prolific author on astrology), “Astrology for Lover's” book there is a good chapter on What astrology can and can't do.
“Astrology is baffling because it works. What it's not is a way of foretelling the future, or of determining whether that tall dark stranger will turn up next week. To put it briefly the horoscope is a map of the psyche of the individual. it's a kind of blueprint, a seed plan, a model of the energies and drives which make up a person. Because it's calculated precisely for time and place, it's unique, unlike the sun sign column. Even identical twins are born at least four minutes apart, and in four minutes the picture has shifted.”


“Astrology can be used to help you in many ways. It can reveal damaging behavioral patterns or forewarn you of upcoming challenges. It can help you pinpoint latent talents you may possess and provide you with specific hints on how to best develop them. Astrology can also point out expansive, rewarding trends that are coming up and assist you in figuring out how to take advantage of them before they fade. Finally, astrology is an excellent means to determine the perfect timing for certain actions.” http://www.cafeastrology.com/articles/whatastrologycandoforyou.html

[astrologer50]

“The beauty of astrology is that it will help you to always be in complete control of your life. Astrology is not fortune telling: but it is a recognition that we have free will. We know we are not controlled by the planets, but the planets do create a certain atmospheres of constriction or ease, that keeps us on our toes. Alas, you cannot blame the planets and say, for example, Saturn made me do it! The few times I have said this to an audience, most people laugh it does sound funny.”
http://www.cafeastrology.com/articles/whatastrologycandoforyou.html

[astrologer50]

“The planets work to help us help ourselves. By applying pressure, planets help us to overcome inertia. At other times, they help us to see unproductive or even self-destructive behavior that we may have never noticed before but that we can fix. Astrologers believe we must be accountable for our actions and to recognize that we do have choices. The study of astrology will help you sort out all your options and to act at the proper time.” http://www.cafeastrology.com/articles/whatastrologycandoforyou.html
To read the full article just click on above link

[Rebel Uranian]

Originally Posted by astrologer50

Simply put NO, astrology has it limitations..

Astrology is not perfect, but you should at least be able to try to definitively guess if a person will gamble or philosophize, or else we're looking at a system so vague it's useless. By the way, psychology is formal bunk. (which is a term I invented to mean that the methods are nonsense even if the results are legit.) We use the psyche to study the psyche?

Originally Posted by astrologer50

“The planets work to help us help ourselves. By applying pressure, planets help us to overcome inertia. At other times, they help us to see unproductive or even self-destructive behavior that we may have never noticed before but that we can fix. Astrologers believe we must be accountable for our actions and to recognize that we do have choices. The study of astrology will help you sort out all your options and to act at the proper time.”

Sometimes they make you go insane. I personally find that to be quite helpful. What about you?

[Rebel Uranian]

I think so.

Astrologers believe in the maxim As Above, So Below.

"That which is below is like that which is above & that which is above is like that which is below"

It goes both ways, the "As Above, So Below" misquote referencing the first section. If you're an uneducated person relying on an astrologer, you're not going to know that.

[Anachiel]

Astrology works by association.

For example, Mars rules things that are red, blood, iron, war, anger, fighters, you get the drift. One would not say any planet is "lucky" because there are "lucky" soldiers and "lucky" war generals just as there are "lucky" philosophers, "lucky" gamblers and "lucky" fashion models. Luck is not a thing, it is a concept and therefore subjective. The planets rule definite things, not necessarily concepts.

Concepts being associated with the planets came with psychological astrology...like Jupiter is "lucky...lucky..lucky...lucky!" and Saturn is "bad..bad..bad..." It's not true for everyone and depending on several factors can be the reverse.

However, in all fairness, traditionally the planets had 'nature' and this is probably where the modern concepts of the planets came from and being mis-understood.

In ancient times the nature of both Mars and Saturn was 'Malefic'. This was due to their extreme natures; one being hot and dry and the other cold and dry, respectively. Obviously too much extreme can stunt one's growth or expression or general well-being.

Conversely, Jupiter was considered "Benefic" because his nature was hot and moist and therefore temperate. It is easier to grow something in a temperate climate than the Arctic or the Sahara. However, they did not intend for the nature of the planets to mean that any were better or not necessary. Descriptions of the planets were not meant as judgments, or a prejudice. They were there to start one in the observation and ability to make distinctions of quality.

Anything out of balance or afflicted in a chart can cause a stumbling block. This is particularly true when one begins to believe that they are "bad" or "afflicted" rather than seeing the combination of natures and elements all together as a whole and using that with wisdom and/or compassion.

Anyway, my whole point is, planets rule nouns; persons, places and things. They do not rule concepts or ambiguous abstractions. Planets have natures and qualities that make them distinctly different and unique from each other but, are not there as moral exactitudes or doctrines of mores.

[Rebel Uranian]

Originally Posted by Anachiel

Anything out of balance or afflicted in a chart can cause a stumbling block. This is particularly true when one begins to believe that they are "bad" or "afflicted" rather than seeing the combination of natures and elements all together as a whole and using that with wisdom and/or compassion.

What if there is perfectly balanced affliction? That interests me.

Originally Posted by Anachiel

Conversely, Jupiter was considered "Benefic" because his nature was hot and moist and therefore temperate. It is easier to grow something in a temperate climate than the Arctic or the Sahara.

What about Venus? Venus is cold and dry.

Originally Posted by Anachiel

Anyway, my whole point is, planets rule nouns; persons, places and things. They do not rule concepts or ambiguous abstractions.

Ideas are nouns. I think planets rule abstractions in the sense that they are or transmit energies and not things themselves, but they don't rule things being good or bad or all this psychological bunk. You can use astrology to get into the psyche a little, but it's not like each planet is a piece of the psyche like people think it is. I tried that on someone and it failed miserably and I could tell it was failing. I'm glad I didn't tell them what I was trying to do.

Originally Posted by Anachiel

Planets have natures and qualities that make then distinctly different and unique from each other but, are not there as moral exactitudes or doctrines of mores.

I got accused of being Nietzsche when I said basically that. Just kidding.

[Claire19]

Originally Posted by Rebel Uranian

"Is there anything Mars doesn't stand for?" (forgot source)

How does one tell what a planet does on a given chart? There are people who get luck (ruled by Jupiter) but are not remotely philosophical (also ruled by Jupiter) and there are also philosophers who have terrible luck. Unless astrology has definite interpretations for everything, we could just be making stuff up.

The mistake it taking one planet or aspect by itself and trying to analyse it. The whol chart has to be looked at and the aspects to Mars for instance, its sign and house placement. Astrology is complex and takes experience and knowledge to properly use it. Although there is opportunity with Jupiter there is no such thing as luck....

[Claire19]

Originally Posted by Rebel Uranian

I agree that there is no such thing as luck, but some people win a lot of lotteries etc. so what would distinguish a lottery winner from a philosopher?

a lottery winner has to have strong 5th house for winnings and speculation and also 8th house for shared assets and gifts etc. Jupiter and Venus strong also....

A philosopher would have a strong 9th house for instance and there is no connection with lottery winnings there....unless it is from a foreign source and then again the chart has to be analysed. The second house of income, assets and material goods can also be involved or lottery wins. All this is decreed at birth and if you are meant to win you can take the tickets but if not you are wasting your time, no matter how much money you spend on it.........THis is karma and often a reward for past deeds... or not.....

[Anachiel]

Originally Posted by Rebel Uranian

What if there is perfectly balanced affliction? That interests me.



What about Venus? Venus is cold and dry.

No, Venus is cold and moist

Ideas are nouns. I think planets rule abstractions...
No, ideas are concepts, they are not things in the sense of a defineable materialization like a bird, money, person, dog, cloud, war, etc...

in the sense that they are or transmit energies and not things themselves, but they don't rule things being good or bad or all this psychological bunk.

Yes, there are things that can hurt you like snow and ice and freezing water, too much sun, desert with no water, etc. It doesn't mean these qualities are inherently bad (or good), however. That's the difference.

Sorry, I don"t know what you mean by "perfectly balanced affliction" Sounds like an oxymoron to me. oh haha...you were joking, right?

[Rebel Uranian]

So Venus is Water? I always thought it was Earth. I'll have to go check that.

Perfectly balanced affliction:
Mars (Fire) opposite Venus (Water?)
all square
Saturn (Earth) opposite Jupiter (Air)

The elements are all balanced out between planets and we will assume that this Cross actually happens within the signs of 4 elements. Also assume that each planet gets equal dignity. It's a perfectly balanced affliction to a ton of planets. Of course, I'm assuming that affliction just refers to any hard aspect.

Edit: Yes, Venus is Water. My mistake <_<

[Anachiel]

Originally Posted by Rebel Uranian

So Venus is Water? I always thought it was Earth. I'll have to go check that.

No. earth, water, air, fire- those are elements. These are things as well, and they have qualities, too. Earth is cold and dry and water is cold and moist, fire is hot and dry and air is warm and moist. The planets are NOT the elements. They are distinctly differerent things though, they may share a similar quality.

Perfectly balanced affliction:
Mars (Fire) opposite Venus (Water?)
all square
Saturn (Earth) opposite Jupiter (Air)

The elements are all balanced out between planets and we will assume that this Cross actually happens within the signs of 4 elements. It's a perfectly balanced affliction.

no, I don't think so....affliction? no. You'd have to assume that something was "wrong" with this set up to begin posturing about affliction and good and evil and all that jazz.

[Rebel Uranian]

The planets are not elements, but they have elements. I just use the elements to name the hot/cold and dry/moist qualities.

What do you classify as affliction?

P.S. You can have too much moistness.

[Frank]

Originally Posted by Rebel Uranian

The planets are not elements, but they have elements.

What do you classify as affliction?

Not quite. Planets have qualities that are either close to the qualities of the signs or not. Temperament is the key. I suggest this quick overview:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temperament.html

[Rebel Uranian]

The Choleric Temperament (pp. 91-94)


Key Words: will, inexhaustible, optimistic, aggressive, assertive, take-charge, impatient, hates details
Favorite Book: Machiavelli, The Prince
Favorite Songs: "Climb Ev'ry Mountain"
"I Can Do Anything (Better than You Can)"
Favorite Music: Wagner, "Ride of the Valkyries"

Yeah, I'm random.

What do you do when you can't tell what the heck the dominating temperament is because things are just too balanced?