Clearing Up Common Confusions in Natal Interpretation

[byjove]

Hi all,

I'm looking to do the above ^^ e.g.

I have read that ____ is the real you ____ is the public you.
Insert the Sun, Moon, ASC and MC in either spot and re-combine until each combination is exhausted, and that is what I have read in different astrology books. Now I have no idea what's the 'real' anyone or 'public'.


This planet represents your social nature ____
Insert the Moon or Venus. I've seen both there and I really am confused.


This is the 'you' seen when working with other people ___
Insert the Moon, Venus, ASC, DSC, MC or a hamster because I've seen all of them (-ham) in there and really my head is messed up.

Is there any definitive answers on this? I'd like to leave aspects and planets in houses well out of this, because every natal astrology book I've read has laid claim with each of these phrases or similar to a sign or point and I'd like to see that mess cleared up. E.g. I've Moon Virgo, Venus Pisces, which is my 'social' nature? Sun Aries, Moon Virgo, MC Pisces/Aries, which is the real me or public me or personal me?

[byjove]

Anyone any thoughts, comments?

[venuschild.EarthGoddess]

I, too, have heard many different theories about our "true" nature and the likes. I'm leaning on the theory that the "social" nature may be the jupiter or a combination of jupiter/mercury, and I'm theorizing this because both my jupiter and mercury are in gemini. Also, I noticed that with anyone who also has jupiter in gemini, I can talk to them about anything worth talking about, and usually I bring out the sillyness in them and they bring out the sillyness in me, and we could go on and on, sometimes laughing together so loud that we make others look. This is only with people who know me well and that I'm extremely comfortable talking to. We can tease each other and not take offense.

[Moog]

Originally Posted by byjove

Hi all,

I'm looking to do the above ^^ e.g.

I have read that ____ is the real you ____ is the public you.
Insert the Sun, Moon, ASC and MC in either spot and re-combine until each combination is exhausted, and that is what I have read in different astrology books. Now I have no idea what's the 'real' anyone or 'public'.


This planet represents your social nature ____
Insert the Moon or Venus. I've seen both there and I really am confused.


This is the 'you' seen when working with other people ___
Insert the Moon, Venus, ASC, DSC, MC or a hamster because I've seen all of them (-ham) in there and really my head is messed up.

Is there any definitive answers on this? I'd like to leave aspects and planets in houses well out of this, because every natal astrology book I've read has laid claim with each of these phrases or similar to a sign or point and I'd like to see that mess cleared up. E.g. I've Moon Virgo, Venus Pisces, which is my 'social' nature? Sun Aries, Moon Virgo, MC Pisces/Aries, which is the real me or public me or personal me?

Unfortunately I don't think astrology is so reducible as that, which is why it takes so much blinking study and practice.

One's 'Social nature' is such a complex thing, and seems to be affected by about everything in a chart.

Same with 'public you'; The ascendant sign and planets in that vicinity could make up the 'primary interface', but other planetary forces will factor in and come through that to a greater or lesser extent.

[Rebel Uranian]

I think houses and aspects are the main thing that makes a natal chart recognizable. Signs are like colors, houses are like areas, planets are like shapes. If you've ever seen an Andy Warhol (def not my fav artist, but it's an example) picture, he will repeat the same image multiple times in different colors and it'll still be recognizable. But in Escher, illusions, etc. they use the same colors in different pictures or places or shapes and you wouldn't even recognize the colors unless you have a really trained + talented eye.

[MaeMae]

I don't personally have internal issues on these lines, others, however, do.
Indeed, harmonious Moon/Venus aspects lend themseves to comfort and and complacency.
For good or bad.
UGGH!
working from mobile. deleted 2 paragraphs unknowingly before posting. Will reply again later after wringing neck of phone. Disregard TFN.

[Rebel Uranian]

I have challenging Moon/Venus aspects and harmonious Sun/Mars aspects. Guess which planets I use more. Oh, and harmonious Saturn/Pluto aspects... I can't believe I totally overlooked them as a beginner. Right now I'm mostly looking at indicators of mental ability and activity because one day I noticed a lot of brilliant and/or talkative and intellectual people have pathetic Mercuries, and I'm going to try to apply what I figure out to every single area of astrology ever and check it there because there's a lot that needs to be figured out.

[byjove]

Well I think that's a far more honest answer Moog, than any of the books I've been reading. I can understand that explanation. I just don't get why so many books (non Sun-sign versions) simply everything into dust, loosing meaning in the process.

I thought that aspects and houses would have more meaning too, I follow that too.

MaeMae, I HATE when your phone/laptop deletes paragraphs like that! Drives me crazy...

And as for the pathetic Mercuries, I've been battling the Mercury in Pisces-prejudice on here for years...there are a few threads on it and I've illustrated why it's completely misunderstood and largely prejudice, not fact at all. I think it's Frank on here who did extensive research into it and found many a high-IQ in that native, as just one example of intelligence.

[Rebel Uranian]

Right now I'm mostly looking for what causes intelligence and communication if Mercury is not the only factor, since obviously it's not. I don't act like a Mercury in Capricorn person. I (usually) live up to one of my many mottoes: "Think fast, act fast." I talk all the time, not just when I mean what I say, and I don't mean that I intentionally say things I don't mean, I just mean I like talking. I mean, look at my posts on this forum. I have a ton of posts on every forum ever (not really every forum) too. ("It's not talking just to talk, it's communicating just to communicate!") I can be sarcastic, but usually I'm not, and it's not my primary choice in humor at all. I have a very heavy 3rd house and very prominent 3rd house ruler so I think that might be to blame... But I noticed a lot of smart people with Mercury in Pisces. I once thought that maybe it was exalted there after all, until I decided that there's more than just Mercury (as I have just mentioned.)

[Caprising]

I think that most of us share your frustration Byjove, there are so many differing "opinions" about the methods/interps that work (or don't), that we can easily get "information overload" and give up on learning astrology altogether. We could interpret this information overload as an indication that astrology is very limited in it's practical application, or we might decide that the info overload is one of the first challenges that we are required to find a way around if we want to eventually be proficient, I suppose that we all have our own "veiw" (asc.?) on this!
If I remember correctly you had a Chiron progression exact last year some time , was it in Gemini?

[Anachiel]

byjove, I have to throw in my two cents here, as well. For clarity and succinctness I will be brief.

It is my humble opinion that anything modern to do with astrology can simply be thrown away. Here's why:

Anything in a modern astrology book is from one of two sources; it is either made up by the author OR it is a reinterpretation of something older and traditional taken out of context. So, of course, none of it will hold much water for very long. Of course there will be so many opinions- yes, opinions rather than facts, on how to read a chart.

In short, my suggestion at this point in your journey is to go back in time, and start reading the old books, from the ancient authors and getting a more rounded and thorough understanding of where and why all this exists to begin with. Study their techniques and the CONTEXT in which they used them. Then apply them and see.

As an aside, but worth consideration, I can only wonder if Rob Hand now looks back on the books he wrote like Planets In Transit and wonders what came over him.

Blessings,

Anachiel

[kimbermoon]

Originally Posted by byjove

Hi all,

I'm looking to do the above ^^ e.g.
Now I have no idea what's the 'real' anyone or 'public'.

and I really am confused.

really my head is messed up.

Is there any definitive answers on this? I'd like to leave aspects and planets in houses well out of this, because every natal astrology book I've read has laid claim with each of these phrases or similar to a sign or point and I'd like to see that mess cleared up. E.g. I've Moon Virgo, Venus Pisces, which is my 'social' nature? Sun Aries, Moon Virgo, MC Pisces/Aries, which is the real me or public me or personal me?

Clarification: here is the technique I use. The rising sign represents the mask of the personality that we individually create when moving out into the world: it is in truth the 'conditioned' self that we feel we must show to the world to compensate for our insecurities, weaknesses and inner fears: it is the 'act'we put on when we participate in the 'external drama of life'. It is often quite different from the true inner self. This expression is the self we 'want others to respond to', as fictional as it may be.


The Moon shows part of the true inner essence, showing our inherent needs and areas where we may feel lack. The Sun represents the development we are trying to achieve in later life. Together the Sun and Moon energies must be filtered through the expression of the Ascendant in our attempts to adapt to the circumstances we find ourselves in.
Also the combination of the Sun[creativity]/Moon [receptivity] represents the balancing between the yin-yang energies within: the combination between fire and earth must seek balance in you. Virgo Moon needs to be exacting and practical and live in a world of routine and regulation. The Sun however seeks some kind of leadership role where eneregy and inspiration are required. How will these two energies be reconciled? You don't mention the degree rising for you but you would look to that sign for insights into how you tend to act in public.


I believe that the Moon and 4th house also represent the Psyche, and this is where we look for the true inner self that is in search of evolving during this lifetime which are then channeled through the Persona. Of course we would have to also take into account how the Moon reflects the expressions of Venus [expectations and values], Mars [action and passions], in accordance with all other Lunar aspects. We also look to Jupiter for judiciousness and integrity, honesty and sincerity. Are we practicing the laws of RIGHT LIVING?


This is a technique I developed which has served me very well in getting down to the heart of chart analysis.


In a nutshell, the Rising sign shows our conditioned 'persona' while the rest of the energies represent that what goes on within...the riddle must be unravelled in order to reveal the true inner essence within. I think this is important to note because it is part of the process of Awakening that lies ahead of us. People need to wake up from their illusions, get a grip on what constitutes true reality, and also to take the effort to 'remember our divinity' ...if the physical/material system is swept away [as is predicted by many] the only thing we can rely on will be the strength and stamina of our personal inner spirit.


Just wanting to help...

[Rebel Uranian]

A lot of my chart seems to be based on my Ascendant. I've seen this a few other times as well, where everything on the chart goes back to the Ascendant and maybe only one or two planets aren't aspected by a rising planet, which, in these cases is domiciled and conjunct a luminary or maybe traditional ruler. I consider this to be someone who lives for their image because it's all other people are going to get. Isn't it all other people are going to get? Well, there's no use pretending anyhow...

[dr. farr]

Originally Posted by byjove

Hi all,

I'm looking to do the above ^^ e.g.

I have read that ____ is the real you ____ is the public you.
Insert the Sun, Moon, ASC and MC in either spot and re-combine until each combination is exhausted, and that is what I have read in different astrology books. Now I have no idea what's the 'real' anyone or 'public'.


This planet represents your social nature ____
Insert the Moon or Venus. I've seen both there and I really am confused.


This is the 'you' seen when working with other people ___
Insert the Moon, Venus, ASC, DSC, MC or a hamster because I've seen all of them (-ham) in there and really my head is messed up.

Is there any definitive answers on this? I'd like to leave aspects and planets in houses well out of this, because every natal astrology book I've read has laid claim with each of these phrases or similar to a sign or point and I'd like to see that mess cleared up. E.g. I've Moon Virgo, Venus Pisces, which is my 'social' nature? Sun Aries, Moon Virgo, MC Pisces/Aries, which is the real me or public me or personal me?

As others on this thread have stated, one simply cannot say that any given answer to each of the above questions applies to everyone; individualization based on the totality of characteristics indications in the chart, only can then be applied to answer each of the above questions relative to the person involved.

However, say you put a gun to my head and say, "OK, Dr. Bonehead, answer each of these questions OR ELSE!", then, under such coercion, these would be my answers:

-the real you? = the Foundation Point of the horoscope (aka the Pillar of the Horoscope)
-the public you? = the Part of Fortune
-the you seen when working with other people? = the Part of Fortune
-what represents your social nature? = usually the Part of Fortune, but in some people it can be the Part of Spirit

...but I hasten to add, I would make these generalizations ONLY under coercion, and the reality is that there are many individual exceptions to even these generalizations...

[bittermoon]

I wish it was as easy as filling in the blanks. Thanks for starting this discussion, byjove; I find it very interesting.

To me, the 'real you' can't be broken down. It's a holistic concept; the sum of your entire chart. However, if I must reduce it to the core, it would be the Moon for me, as it represents the subconscious mind.

The 'public you' is represented mostly (but not exclusively) by the Ascendant, which is how you choose to/want to be seen, and the MC, which is how others see you and perceive you.

[byjove]

Well, quite a myriad of answers and each adds spice to the discussion! I don't seriously mean fill in the blanks; I came across yet another book the other day which led me down simple avenue and honestly, from those books, personal, public etc. is blurred like a foggy English countryside in the depths of winter...

I'll continue to read, plenty to consider, a fast response from me now I think would be ill-considered...

[Gwenyhfair]

for clarity

the ascendant becomes the "real you" only after 28 years

but what about the different house system and now some are talking about shifting the whole zodiac and put in the thirteenth sign.

You might not even know your sun/moon/venus sign anymore

[Caprising]

Have you considered being an astrologer full time, and reading charts for a thousand or 2 clients over a 20 year period, therefore learning what works and what doesn't from practical experience ? .....I have considered doing just that, but the problem is that I'm no spring chicken, that would take a huge chunk out of my time here on planet earth, leaving me with a very short time to learn even more than the basic natal, progressed and transit combinations.
You don't have to invest this much time and energy if you can find an astrologer who has done this huge amount of work and who is also willing to share his/her results with aspiring astrologers for the petty amount of 20 to 50 dollars! I can name 2 books from one astrologer that will give you a huuuuge shortcut, her books are available secondhand on the web for between 20 to 50 dollars...If your not ready to see the natural patterns in nature then thats fine too! There are numerous people on the web (and on this forum) that will tell you "their method" of delineation, and how it works for them, if you want to learn from someone who has been studying for 2, 5 or 10 years then thats fine, but why confuse yourself with methods that arn't backed by a substantial amount of practical experience? My advice is to learn from seasoned published astrologers, at YOUR pace....this rabbit hole is deep!

[*emma*]

[QUOTE=bittermoon;324679]I wish it was as easy as filling in the blanks. Thanks for starting this discussion, byjove; I find it very interesting.

To me, the 'real you' can't be broken down. It's a holistic concept; the sum of your entire chart. However, if I must reduce it to the core, it would be the Moon for me, as it represents the subconscious mind.

The 'public you' is represented mostly (but not exclusively) by the Ascendant, which is how you choose to/want to be seen, and the MC, which is how others see you and perceive you.[/QUOTE]

that resonates with me, my friends and family think i am intelligent, clever, good with words, i have a gemini mc

and i have virgo rising and i do like to be seen as miss goody 2 shoes LOL - conscientious and hard working

how i want to be/grow into/see myself though is my sun sign libra - i value integrity, truth, justice, fairness and all the rest that goes with it - hard going though sometimes, such a conscious but heartfelt effort as i think libras can be too soft sometimes

the moon rules it all IMO - that autopilot - that anchor in this life - the safety valve, comnfort zone, mine is in sagitarius which bolsters the libra theme of fairness justice quite well and is big on tolerance and always wanting to learn

but i do agree that its the whole chart that is you, in fact, you are above and beyond the chart, the x factor is not definable really