Strong Overbearing Mother Influence in this chart?
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I am currently dating someone who is giving me a feeling that his mother is too involved in everything he does. Does his chart reveal/indicate this situation? Perhaps a potential problem for us.
His: February 9, 1961 3:28 AM Newark, NJ Me: October 18, 1959 1:10 AM Bronx, NY
I am uploading both of our charts.
Thank you for any help you can give,
I am at my wits end!!!
Last edited by harvastmoon; 04-16-2011 at 10:50 PM.
Reason: added Synastry charts
Re: Strong Overbearing Mother Influence in this chart?
In astro.com go to the extended chart drawing and make a synastry chart for these two people. I had a quick look and it seems that they have his moon square her pluto. That means that she is manipulating him and he feels dominated. I have this aspect with my mom. It's not an easy relationship at all.
Wow that is weird...Strong Overbearing Mother Influence in this chart?
Hi,
thank you for taking a look.
So now I am a bit surprised that the chart indicates I am manipulating him.... From the beginning he has always warned me not to get to close to his mother, how if I let her she will jump in and try to run my life. He says she is bossy, competitive and interfering. I also get the feeling that she makes all decisions in their family and no one does anything without her her two cents. Is it possible that because of growing up with such a mother, he will think all the women he attempts to date are also trying to manipulate him? I am so undemanding with him and he has said that this is what he likes about me, that we don't have to talk every single day and that I have a life of my own. BTW he has never married, just had long relationships that never even amounted to engagements! His last serious girlfriend (3 years ago) actually moved in with him (for approx 1year) but bad blood developed between her and his family (I'm guessing the Mom) during that year and he finally asked her to move out, but they still dated for a bit afterwards.
Re: Strong Overbearing Mother Influence in this chart?
My apologies, I must have not read everything properly. I assumed the charts were between him and his mother. I meant no offence.
He has some strong Pluto aspects in his chart that may draw into his life situations of power struggles for his soul's learning. Don't feel bad about it. We all end up in relationships to learn certain things from one another. We act as mirrors for one another. To help the other one grow and mature.
As far as the mother, it sounds like maybe you need to be careful and stand up for yourself from the start, otherwise she'll walk all over you too. Make it clear that you value your relationship with him. Loyalties come into question and are tested when such a mother feels that she might loose her power over him. Stand up for yourself and refuse to be drawn into their power plays.
As for your relationship with your partner, draw up a synastry chart. There are some very knowledgeable people on this forum who give great advice.
All the best
PS: I know the situation your describe well. My in-laws are like that. They end up ruining the relationships of their own children by interfering and power playing. We now live very far away from them.
Re: Strong Overbearing Mother Influence in this chart?
Phew.... thank you because what you said in your first reply post is exactly what I have seen.
Did I mention that he bought a home right behind his parents, and that his older brother bought the house next door to the parents (which is right behind his house, so all three of their properties touch! aaaaaah, At first I thought this was so cool to have a little clan thing going on because both my parents are deceased and I have no other immediate family, but it is starting to make sense and starting to get creepy.
Lately he's been talking about his family less and less to me, because he knows that I am totally freaked out by her, or that he goes to their house for dinner probably 2-3 nights a week (usually the nights that we don't speak).
She calls several times whenever I am with him and he seems to be annoyed by her calls when he's with me but yet it continues. Honestly I think he's trying to prove to me that she has no control over him but it's not working very well... I actually think she has NPD (Narsissistic Personality Disorder). She is very competitive with me, (don't know why), last October she put a picture of just herself and him on the coffee table next to a picture of him and I. Almost seems like she considers herself to be his sweetheart too, That's when I began suspecting that something was very wrong with her. Anyway, it is greatly affecting our relationship and I was hoping that his natal chart would reveal something about this strange influence in his life.
So I will go ahead and post a synastry chart and see what info I can get.
Thank you again
PS.... a creepy thing just happened... just as I was about to finish this post my computer shut down and i got the blue screen! OMG!!!
Re: Strong Overbearing Mother Influence in this chart?
I really feel for you.
I can relate to everything your say and the theme here is very Plutonian. It is hard for me to make sense of it too, and it's been many years. I sometimes feel guilty for breaking up the relationships with them and my mom but things were just so toxic and unnatural and damaging to me. I needed some breathing space and my husband and I left.
I feel that these Plutonian, eight house issues are very secretive, dark and mysterious. I am still trying to come to terms with it, understand it and heal it.
Re: Strong Overbearing Mother Influence in this chart?
What fascinates me about both your charts is that you each have your respective natal Moons as part of a t-square. In other words, for each of you, `mother' is a source of `something'........... pain, conflict, abandonment, irritation, control - the possibilities are many.
Firstly, astro.com places his Moon and Pluto in a square, which I do not accept - too wide an orb. However, his Moon is at the apex of his t-square - with Sun and Uranus. Both these squares are what I would consider `loaded' with possibilities for dysfunction within his family of origin. But his Moon is also in Scorpio - in my experience men with Moon in Scorpio have damaging mothers, but the men themselves prefer to view her as the Goddess! To `wake up' and see her as she really is can be very, very confronting, as they prefer to see her as someone who tries to be a good mother.
I notice also that his Mars in Cancer in the 7th rules his 4th house of family-of-origin, as well as his home, and sense of being `at home', plus his heredity. Cancer is not a good place for Mars, and I suspect he may have a false sense of what home, family and safety/security actually mean. There may even be a kind of unwritten - even unspoken - code in his family about where everyone belongs, which could account for the houses-all-together situation - ultra-creepy!!
What you write about how he is becoming irritated with his mother's involvement in his life is interesting. He was possibly given opportunities to disengage from family at the time of his Saturn Return - at 29-30 - and his failure to achieve that means that he is trying to do this now, at his Chiron Return, as tr Chiron has again squared his natal Moon. This part of his life journey will demand that he get real where his emotions are concerned.
What you do about this is up to you, of course, but I feel that he will try to get distance from his mother and other family members, but unconsciously he may be very afraid of making a big break.
__________________
"There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in."
- from Anthem by Leonard Cohen
Re: Strong Overbearing Mother Influence in this chart?
And I also wanted to respond separately to the following quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by harvastmoon
She is very competitive with me, (don't know why), last October she put a picture of just herself and him on the coffee table next to a picture of him and I. Almost seems like she considers herself to be his sweetheart too, That's when I began suspecting that something was very wrong with her.
My first comment is in repsonse to the mother=girlfriend part of this quote. My oldest brother has Moon in Scorpio, and I have been (very slowly and carefully) helping him with True Stories about our late mother, a woman he worshipped and adored, but who was a seriously damaging and damaged woman. Way back when - some time in the 60's - my brother was sitting on the settee with his fiance (who later became his 1st wife) My mother entered the room, sat down on the other side of my brother, grasped his arm and put it around her (his other arm being around his fiance). My mother then said: "Here he is sitting with his two favourites girls. Now, we won't say who is Number 1 and who is Number 2, will we?" The implication, of course, was that my mother should be `Number 1'. My brother and his fiance smiled weakly, while I almost puked!
As to something being wrong with her, there well may be, given his Moon-Uranus square. I know so many people with this placement, and they all (well, apart from a number of forum-members who plead otherwise) have mothers who are, at the very least `unusual'. Many have mothers with definite personality disorders - which can be very elusive, and difficult to detect - so it would not surprise me at all if this guy's mother is not quite hooked up right.
__________________
"There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in."
- from Anthem by Leonard Cohen
Re: Strong Overbearing Mother Influence in this chart?
His moon is also on the cusp of the 12th house.
This can mean quite deep issues related to the mother perhaps she threatened to abandon him or maybe she did and this is something he has not resolved.
Re: Strong-Overbearing Mother Influence in His Chart?
Quote:
Originally Posted by harvastmoon
Hi,
I am currently dating someone who is giving me a feeling that his mother is too involved in everything he does. Does his chart reveal/indicate this situation? Perhaps a potential problem for us.
His: February 9, 1961 3:28 AM Newark, NJ Me: October 18, 1959 1:10 AM Bronx, NY
I am uploading both of our charts.
Thank you for any help you can give,
I am at my wits end!!!
Hello
Not only is she overpowering him, but he has also been hurt by her both emotionally and physically. Physically when he was small, and I am sure that one particular beating/scolding is still remembered by him.
He is in an emotional bind and cannot leave his mother
__________________
Sethi
A person who thinks he knows everything has still a lot to learn
Re: Strong-Overbearing Mother Influence in His Chart?
Quote:
Originally Posted by harvastmoon
Hi,
I am currently dating someone who is giving me a feeling that his mother is too involved in everything he does. Does his chart reveal/indicate this situation? Perhaps a potential problem for us.
His: February 9, 1961 3:28 AM Newark, NJ Me: October 18, 1959 1:10 AM Bronx, NY
I am uploading both of our charts.
Thank you for any help you can give,
I am at my wits end!!!
well done for posting the correct charts...
he has moon quincunx mars
Quote:
Moon Quincunx (Inconjunct) Mars
Learning to be emotionally consistent is harder for you than for most people because your feelings and desires cover such a wide range of possible expression. Your manner of self expression can inadvertently add weight and encouragement to components of your personality that you actually wish to minimize or even transform. It takes much experimentation with relationships in order to have emotions that serve your higher needs rather than just running amuck on their own mission of blind, disconnected expression. Either artistic or idealistic goals are necessary to achieve satisfaction http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/q...retations.html
His moon also squares his mercury, showing problems communicating his feelings.
Quote:
Moon square or opposition Mercury
There is a conflict here between the head and the heart. The emotions tell them one thing and the mind tells them something else. The result is a wavering, and a see-saw effect is most evident with the opposition--emotional to the point of irrationality at one moment, and logical the next. How to blend the head and the heart is a constant struggle for these individuals, usually because there is a tendency to resist blending them! http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/m...ryaspects.html
to read the full article click on link
mars in cancer will always interfer with family matters, but this will be *his family* and does not describe his mother, the moon does that. Or at least his view of her
So moon square Uranus is early break with mother, friendships, relationships and is on my list of divorce aspects. He needs to do things unusual that feed the emotional and intuitive nature...
Moon square pluto shows intensity, so you can see that 'mother' must have swung from all these points.
Quote:
Moon square or opposition Pluto
You are not always open with your feelings. Although you have a strong urge to share your innermost emotions with others, you have a simultaneous desire to control what others know about you, which likely stems from fear. You crave a deep feeling of belonging and intimate connection with others, and yet your approach to realizing these desires is often self-defeating http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/m...toaspects.html
Re: Strong-Overbearing Mother Influence in His Chart?
sun square moon shows divorced or divided parents and this has to be worked on internally with him
Quote:
Sun square Moon
The square formed between the Sun and Moon shows conflict in certain aspects of the life. Self-expression is blocked by emotional hangups or habit patterns that may be inherited or conditioned by past events. Family and domestic affairs keep you from developing the way you would like. The conditions in your early family environment may have caused difficulties in understanding and getting along with the opposite sex. In these relationships you can be too argumentative and defensive. You may need to get the chip off your shoulder sometimes. This aspect suggests a conflict between the ego and the emotions. There is a presence of tension between your outer and inner self. http://www.skyscript.co.uk/sunaspects.html#susmo
lastly, moon is in it's fall and trapped in 12th house which suggests his emotional needs were not fulfilled in early childhood. In sign of scorpio suggests a very private emotional nature. So plenty of hangs up's going on here....
Re: Strong-Overbearing Mother Influence in His Chart?
going onto your emotional hang ups, then moon opp neptune suggests emotional disillusionment, connected to early conditions/mother. sometimes this can suggest eating disorders even. Moon square Uranus. This moon is Apex for kite formation
Mercury conj Neptune shows creative strong imagination, but I have a saying for this, "there's many a slip between cup and lip."
4th House – angular house
Strong unconscious emotional ties with home and family. Confused family relationships and sometimes chaotic domestic environment. Often feel sorry for strangers, animals and offer accommodation. Beachcombers. Sacrifices in the home (parents) Mystery concerning early life. Deception. Over‑idealise mothers perhaps disillusionment. Possibly put mother on a pedestal ‑ missing parent! doubts about roots! ‑ Abandoned, adopted, or even left in a plastic bag. Very much eggshell area and therefore sensitive. Neptune the ‘great dissolver’ can literally dissolve connections to family
lastly your Jupiter is a singleton, lack of planets in fire element and only moon above horizon shows a rather subjective personality with limited ability to stand in others shoes... Singleton planets
“If a planet happens to be the only one in an element, quality, or house type, that planet is a Singleton and it can funnel all of the “energy” of the horoscope. This planet is often the most important one in the horoscope. In other words, if you just interpret the position of this one planet by sign, house, and aspect, you will get to the “heart of the horoscope”. The effect is the same as if that planet were the only one on one side of the chart.” http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/13.0Singletons.htm http://www.astrologyclub.org http://en.mimi.hu/astrology/singleton.html http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-2334.html (There is a book out by Shirley Lyons Meier, "Elemental Voids, More than Meets the Eye", which gives a good discussion of missing elements.) The Inferior Function can be a source of great motivation and creative expression. http://www.astrologyclub.org/articles/singletons/intro/singleton_intro.htm
Re: Strong-Overbearing Mother Influence in His Chart?
To start with it's best to look at the individual needs of each persons chart and how they relate and what they are looking for. Astro.com does have an option composite + natal midpoint method (2) which I find helpful. If you choose to post the synastry bi wheel from astro could you please select the 2nd synastry option as it will put the houses and degrees onto the wheel which is far better for us to evaluate matters....
If you post the synastry chart and realise it doesn’t show the degrees (which we need to look at) you can find the degrees and other information in a separate PDF on the synastry page of astro.com. Look for the link "View the additional tables (PDF)" and click on it to see the additional information. Reading a synastry chart is mainly about reading the aspects between the planets in the two charts. So once you find the PDF, scroll down to the bottom of the page and look in the synastry grid that is there. Unfortunately, you can only see/read these and not save/upload. That’s why I like to see both natal’s and composite. This grid (in my opinion) has too many minor aspects and the orbs are quite wide. I like to use + - max 3’
When looking at a woman’s chart the type of man she would look for is her sun sign and mars traits, plus 7th house planets and house cusp ruler and where that ruler was deposited.
When looking at a mans chart for the type of woman he would look for is his venus and moon sign and then 7th house planets and house cusp ruler and where that ruler was deposited.
Although synastry is a valuable tool with astrology it cannot 'make things happen' even if you have the best synastry in the world unfortunately..
Re: Strong Overbearing Mother Influence in this chart?
I wonder if he can confide in you as his moon in scorpio falls in your 4th house.
4th house - often the place of sanctity and refuge and counsellor types.he may need to and be willing to get help for this.you have mercury in scorpio so maybe able to help uncover this.
Also like Raven I know of someone with a scorpio moon in 12th and he sat me down one day to tell me this shocking terrible secret(this was how he viewed it) his mother left him at 2yrs old and divorced his father he had never seen her since. this was felt very deeply by him and he thought that I would not wish to associate with him cos of this.(it didnt effect me at all) but I was amazed at the shame that he felt about this secret.
also I spotted the sun sq moon but it is not quite the sq. still there will be an inference there.
Re: Strong Overbearing Mother Influence in this chart?
Well I am soooo amazed at the accuracy of what I have read so far. I am posting the Composite + Natal midpoint method (2) Chart now and will go back and finish reading the rest of the postings
I am so thankful to all of you for you wonderful inputs. Being a single mom of 3 "BOYS" often makes me frustrated that right now I am unable to devote much time to study/learn about things that fascinate me so much, ... ah... but they will all graduate High School someday...
Re: Strong Overbearing Mother Influence in this chart?
Quote:
Originally Posted by R4VEN
And I also wanted to respond separately to the following quote:
My first comment is in repsonse to the mother=girlfriend part of this quote. My oldest brother has Moon in Scorpio, and I have been (very slowly and carefully) helping him with True Stories about our late mother, a woman he worshipped and adored, but who was a seriously damaging and damaged woman. Way back when - some time in the 60's - my brother was sitting on the settee with his fiance (who later became his 1st wife) My mother entered the room, sat down on the other side of my brother, grasped his arm and put it around her (his other arm being around his fiance). My mother then said: "Here he is sitting with his two favourites girls. Now, we won't say who is Number 1 and who is Number 2, will we?" The implication, of course, was that my mother should be `Number 1'. My brother and his fiance smiled weakly, while I almost puked!
As to something being wrong with her, there well may be, given his Moon-Uranus square. I know so many people with this placement, and they all (well, apart from a number of forum-members who plead otherwise) have mothers who are, at the very least `unusual'. Many have mothers with definite personality disorders - which can be very elusive, and difficult to detect - so it would not surprise me at all if this guy's mother is not quite hooked up right.
The couch scenario sounds like something she would pull, she just hasn't the opportunity to do this with us yet!
I do have a few other concerns and that I’m not sure what is causing them. I haven't seen this in any of the info here yet.
It’s the feeling that he is somehow seeing me and treating me as his does his mother - i.e. he never physically touches me, like holding my hand or reaching over to touch my arm or put his arm around me when we are sitting/standing near each other in public or when we are alone. Whenever we meet, whether it’s him coming to my home to get me or I go to his house for dinner, there is no affectionate greeting such as a hello kiss/hug unless I do it first. Same thing for us parting company after a day/night out together. If there is a kiss it's always a quick peck, and sometimes a quick limp hug. I will read the links again but am wondering if this behavior is result of an overbearing/overemotional mother or is it just his general makeup. He also seems to lack empathy in a major major way, He seems to go to a discount stores but never asks if he can get anything for us (everyone knows that a single mom with kids is always running out of something) and he is well aware as is his mother, that I don’t have a mother or father to bring us those nice little extras that they picked up while they were out getting something for themselves. And sadly enough, His mom, the one person who should know this, has never done it. So many I have seen stuff that she has brought to him such as vitamins, toothpaste, paper towels, coupons, rock salt, etc, etc…
And forget about taking any interest in my youngest son who seems to really like him. Weird though, he will occasionally say that he thinks my little guy is very cool and that he would take him in if I ever dropped dead!! Wow… not a comforting thought to me, especially when his mother has never given any of my 3 sons a birthday or Christmas gift... and I've been with him 1 1/2 years now.
Hmmm, it does sound odd that I have been sticking this out for 1-1/2 years now but honestly, I really enjoy his company and I keep thinking that he just needs to warm up to us. (I know it can't be easy dating a woman with 3 boys (all rough/tough hockey players)!! Well I just know that I'm getting a tad frustrated with the enormous lack of affection to me and the boys.
Wow this is probably the first time I have let all this out…. and probably because I am on the very edge of baling out of this unfulfilling relationship. Since I am fond of astrology I am looking find some guidance/answers and hoping that it will lead me to believe that there is a chance that he will be able to change some (not all) of these behaviors. I can be very patient but even us sappy pushover Libras have our limits!
Re: Strong Overbearing Mother Influence in this chart?
harvastmoon, it sounds to me as though you are looking for that one indicator of whether it is worth keeping this r/ship going. You are the only one who should be making this decision, however if he hasn't shaped up after 18 months, then this is unlikely to change.
I still feel that the dynamic between Moon, Sun and Uranus - all in fixed signs - is a real indicator of what you are experiencing with him. His Moon is like the recipient of all the tension which is deep within him, and which has built up over 50 years. That's a lot of tension!
Given that he is essentially a child of his parents - still - then he will blend into a r/ship with a woman as that very child, and his need - unconscious though it may be - will be for you to be the mother. You are already a mother, so he probably sees you as The Perfect Woman for him. Yes, I suspect that he expects you to behave as his mother, which may account for his absence of affection in public..
[Your scenario sounds very similar to my marriage of 14 years, which ground to a halt over 25 years ago. It took me forever to see that he wanted a mother, rather than a partner/wife. Once we had children, he became my 3rd child. It's clear to me now, but I could not see it at the time. My ex also has Sun opp Uranus - as does your partner - and this may manifest as self-absorption, especially if the person has not learned in early life to concern themselves with others. Oh, and my ex was also very uncomfortable when I wanted to hold hands in public. I can remember one incident (a lo-n-g time ago) at my brother's engagement party, when I went to sit on his knee. His response was: "Get off! What if someone sees us?" It all makes sense to me now.]
Were your partner under the age of 40, I'd say hang in there if you think he's worth it, but by 50 he may be too `fixed' in living in a way which suits him.
__________________
"There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in."
- from Anthem by Leonard Cohen
Strong Overbearing Mother Influence in this chart?
Well I am going to pull together all of my strength and take a good look at what's going on ... that's all anyone can do....
thank you for all the wonderful insight, truly amazing...
Strong-Overbearing Mother Influence in His Chart?
I meant no offence.
Re: Strong Overbearing Mother Influence in this chart?
she just hasn't the opportunity to do this with us yet!
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