Horary learning notes

[Astrologer4U]

It is my wish to learn Horary and I have come to the conclusion that I need to keep notes according to the questions I ask, so this thread is open to anyone of course but for me, it is my way of keeping notes, maybe the notes will help other students as well...

Okay, for a long time I have been confused about Lords and the Significators.

Astrologers treat the so-called modern planets in different ways. Lilly and his crowd--and of course those who preceded him--did not know of Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto. Many contemporary astrologers who favor traditional horary techniques do not consider these three outer planets when reading a chart. Others regard them only as secondary rulers of the signs to which they've been assigned by modern astrology. In other words, a house with Pisces on the cusp would still be ruled by Jupiter, first, and Neptune, second. Some use Uranus as the primary ruler of Aquarius, and follow traditional rulerships for Pisces and Scorpio.

http://mithras93.tripod.com/lessons/...3/lesson3.html

In this chart, the question asked is, will I see him again? Now, to my understanding, some background needs to be given on the basis of the question in order to arrive what, who and where to assign planets and houses. To give some background on the question, I was seeing this man for some time, when we first met we immediately hit it off, as far as I was concerned, things were a little rocky but no more or less challenging than the challenges I have had in other relationships. The man the the question is about, he is unpredictable, always going off to be missing in action for few days. The last time I saw him, he told me that he was "cool on me" (meaning he is cool without me) and in so many ways he illuded that he didn't want to be my friend anymore, that when he sees me, he will speak to me and that is it. For this particular guy to do and say something like this, it is not alarming or abnormal, he is the kind of guy to do and say anything at any given moment. The only thing is, this time, he told me that he and I seem to not be clicking and for that reason, he wanted to move on. 4 days prior to him saying this, he had told me to bare with him, that he was going to be even more moodier and crankier than usual and to just bare with him until he got through it. I don't know if his calling things off with me was a mood swing that he will later regret and then once he feels the regret he will come back to me or, if this was a mood swing that he will not regret and he will just keep moving forward with no thoughts of ever trying to contact me again.


In this chart, the 7th house that represents him is Pisces, Pisces is ruled by Neptune. I can't use Neptune right? So based on the background info I gave, what planet do I use for him? I wouldn't use the Sun or Jupiter because he is not especially mature right? I wouldn't use Saturn because he is not old. In many ways, he is a wanderer and he is always running away when things don't go his way and he is always changing so could he possibly be represented by the Moon????? Or does the moon always represent women?


I am thinking I would use Venus but he is and was not really a partner, yet he was a friend, being that he was a friend, the co ruler of Uranus is Saturn, I dunno... I could possibly use Mars because he is impulsive and aggressive. Any hoot, Can someone tell me how would I go about assigning a planet to him and once the planet is assigned, would that planet be a significator? If not, what exactly is a significator, I think I understand that the lord is always the ruler of the house, even if it is a planet that is not used in traditional horary.




Astrologer4U

[Astrologer4U]

Okay, so I have been dibbling and dabbling and I found this...

"Is Saturn in the First House when the astrologer is the querent? Your judgement as an astrologer may be compromised or restricted."

http://www.serenapowers.com/horary.html

And then I found this...

Are There Any Strictures Against Judgment? Strictures are conditions within a chart restricting its interpration. Traditionally, charts were not to be read if they contained certain strictures. In my own experience, I have found that while strictures may make interpretation difficult, they don't necessarily prohibit it; often, they merely warn the astrologer to proceed with great care.

http://mithras93.tripod.com/lessons/...1/lesson1.html

Does this mean that, as the saying goes... This chart is not fit for judgment? Or does this mean that I as the Astrologer should not interpret the chart? Can anyone tell me what proceed with great care means? Or do the horary experts and students here at this site go by that rule because I have noticed that there are different rules out there for horary interpretations.


Added: Okay, I just found this after posting...

If Saturn is in the 1st House (or, presumably, conjunct the Ascendent), then the matter will rarely work out as the seeker hopes, especially when Saturn is retrograde. An exception to this rule may be when Saturn's placement in the first is somehow descriptive of what's going on. Look at the chart, "Will I get the Anullment?" (in the drop-down menu below) for an example of a retrograde Saturn conjunct the Ascendant. In this case, the seeker did indeed get what he wanted: the anullment. It was, however, delayed, and Saturn often signifies delay. As already noted, "Saturn in the seventh either corrupts the judgment of the Astrologer, or is a Sign the matter propounded will come from one misfortune to another." Thus spake Lilly.

In the chart, Saturn is not conjunct the Ascendant, however, Saturn is retrograde. According to the above, the chart can be judged if the situation has something to do with being restricted but from the looks of it, that would only be if Saturn is conjunct the Ascendant and in addition going retrograde.





Astrologer4U

[lillyjgc]

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=12782
In your chart, you are the querent and the ascendant is always given to the querent. The other person is almost always h7-unless it's your child, then it's h5, or a sibling, h3, or mother, h10 or father, h4. But almost all romance questions use h1 and h7.
Here, you are mercury and he is jupiter.
The first thing to do is look to see if merc and jupiter are making any applying aspects.If not, then the chart will not yield a positive answer.
Next, I look at the moon. The sign it's in, the house its in (from both the perspective of h1 and h7).I look at the aspects the moon separates from, showing what has occurred and the applying aspects of the moon to see what will occur.
The strength of the sigs and the moon also have to be considered. A moon in cap conjuncting a significator won't necessarily yield a yes answer because the moon's ability to act is detrmined by its dignity. A moon making no applying aspects before leaving the sign is said to be Void of course (usually) and a VOC moon can't tell you what will happen-it suggests nothing is changing.

In this chart, the 7th house that represents him is Pisces, Pisces is ruled by Neptune. I can't use Neptune right?

In horary, the outer planets are not used as significators.They are only considered if strongly positioned in the chart, as extra colour.
In horary, Pisces is ruled by Jupiter.

So based on the background info I gave, what planet do I use for him?

You use h7 and its Ruler.

I wouldn't use the Sun or Jupiter because he is not especially mature right? I wouldn't use Saturn because he is not old.

You use whatever rules the sign on h7 cusp.

In many ways, he is a wanderer and he is always running away when things don't go his way and he is always changing so could he possibly be represented by the Moon????? Or does the moon always represent women?

The moon represents the querant and the action that will occur and has occurred.It *can* represent a woman, and if Cancer rules the quesited, it rules that person.

that would only be if Saturn is conjunct the Ascendant and in addition going retrograde.

If Saturn is in the first or seventh house, it is a warning against reading the chart, but also indicates big problems and delays for the querent. It need not be conjunct the ascendant, and in your case it is in h1, which would be a first warning of problems.
If several strictures exist, then I won't read the chart. Ascendant too early or too late or moon being void of course, or sth node in h1-these factors will render a chart unable to be read accurately.

In this case the moon is in the sign of it's fall and will oppose jupiter in 11 units of time (degrees).In Saturn's sign, it can't act.If you look at the grid you will see the moon makes no applying aspects for a long time, so is temporarily void, but after it opposes venus it will trine mercury-but mercury is your ruler, and in cap, the moon is likely to yield an unfavourable result for the querent.
The moon is in the house of endings and will finally sextile his ruler from there, but a sextile is a weak aspect and with a moon in fall probably only enough to get you both to the point of accepting the ending of the relationship.
Hope that clarifies a few things here.
Lilly

[Astrologer4U]

Originally Posted by lillyjgc

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=12782
In your chart, you are the querent and the ascendant is always given to the querent. The other person is almost always h7-unless it's your child, then it's h5, or a sibling, h3, or mother, h10 or father, h4. But almost all romance questions use h1 and h7.
Here, you are mercury and he is jupiter.
The first thing to do is look to see if merc and jupiter are making any applying aspects.If not, then the chart will not yield a positive answer.
Applying aspects means weather the sigs are making aspects such as Trines squares etcetera, etcetera?

Next, I look at the moon. The sign it's in, the house its in (from both the perspective of h1 and h7).I look at the aspects the moon separates from, showing what has occurred and the applying aspects of the moon to see what will occur.
Again, *applying aspects* as in what aspects such as trines, squares, oppositions ectera, if the moon *will be* making any of those aspects, that is what will happen? Even if the moon will be making those aspects several days later, or several hours later?

The strength of the sigs and the moon also have to be considered. A moon in cap conjuncting a significator won't necessarily yield a yes answer because the moon's ability to act is detrmined by its dignity. A moon making no applying aspects before leaving the sign is said to be Void of course (usually) and a VOC moon can't tell you what will happen-it suggests nothing is changing.

In this chart, the 7th house that represents him is Pisces, Pisces is ruled by Neptune. I can't use Neptune right?

In horary, the outer planets are not used as significators.They are only considered if strongly positioned in the chart, as extra colour.
In horary, Pisces is ruled by Jupiter.

So based on the background info I gave, what planet do I use for him?

You use h7 and its Ruler.

I wouldn't use the Sun or Jupiter because he is not especially mature right? I wouldn't use Saturn because he is not old.

You use whatever rules the sign on h7 cusp.

In many ways, he is a wanderer and he is always running away when things don't go his way and he is always changing so could he possibly be represented by the Moon????? Or does the moon always represent women?

The moon represents the querant and the action that will occur and has occurred.It *can* represent a woman, and if Cancer rules the quesited, it rules that person.

that would only be if Saturn is conjunct the Ascendant and in addition going retrograde.

If Saturn is in the first or seventh house, it is a warning against reading the chart, but also indicates big problems and delays for the querent. It need not be conjunct the ascendant, and in your case it is in h1, which would be a first warning of problems.
If several strictures exist, then I won't read the chart. Ascendant too early or too late or moon being void of course, or sth node in h1-these factors will render a chart unable to be read accurately.

In this case the moon is in the sign of it's fall and will oppose jupiter in 11 units of time (degrees).In Saturn's sign, it can't act.If you look at the grid you will see the moon makes no applying aspects for a long time, so is temporarily void, but after it opposes venus it will trine mercury-but mercury is your ruler, and in cap, the moon is likely to yield an unfavourable result for the querent.
The moon is in the house of endings and will finally sextile his ruler from there, but a sextile is a weak aspect and with a moon in fall probably only enough to get you both to the point of accepting the ending of the relationship.
Hope that clarifies a few things here.
Lilly

Lilly, the above was excellent teaching on your behalf, You made it plain and simple the way I like it and I am putting all of what you said to use. I hope you don't mind. I will be needing to place some of what you said in notes and I am doing that in this thread. Again thanks a whole bunch! I inserted some questions within your quote.



Astrologer4U

[Astrologer4U]

Extracted from lillyjgc quote...

Notes for chart answering the question "will i see him again?"

1. In your chart, you are the querent and the ascendant is always given to the querent. The other person is almost always h7-unless it's your child, then it's h5, or a sibling, h3, or mother, h10 or father, h4. But almost all romance questions use h1 and h7.


2. Here, you are mercury and he is jupiter.
The first thing to do is look to see if merc and jupiter are making any applying aspects.If not, then the chart will not yield a positive answer.
Next, I look at the moon. The sign it's in, the house its in (from both the perspective of h1 and h7).I look at the aspects the moon separates from, showing what has occurred and the applying aspects of the moon to see what will occur.



3. The strength of the sigs and the moon also have to be considered. A moon in cap conjuncting a significator won't necessarily yield a yes answer because the moon's ability to act is detrmined by its dignity. A moon making no applying aspects before leaving the sign is said to be Void of course (usually) and a VOC moon can't tell you what will happen-it suggests nothing is changing.


In horary, the outer planets are not used as significators.They are only considered if strongly positioned in the chart, as extra colour.
In horary, Pisces is ruled by Jupiter.


The moon represents the querant and the action that will occur and has occurred.It *can* represent a woman, and if Cancer rules the quesited, it rules that person.


If Saturn is in the first or seventh house, it is a warning against reading the chart, but also indicates big problems and delays for the querent. It need not be conjunct the ascendant, and in your case it is in h1, which would be a first warning of problems.
If several strictures exist, then I won't read the chart. Ascendant too early or too late or moon being void of course, or sth node in h1-these factors will render a chart unable to be read accurately.

In this case the moon is in the sign of it's fall and will oppose jupiter in 11 units of time (degrees).In Saturn's sign, it can't act. If you look at the grid you will see the moon makes no applying aspects for a long time, so is temporarily void, but after it opposes venus it will trine mercury-but mercury is your ruler, and in cap, the moon is likely to yield an unfavourable result for the querent.
The moon is in the house of endings and will finally sextile his ruler from there, but a sextile is a weak aspect and with a moon in fall probably only enough to get you both to the point of accepting the ending of the relationship.

[Astrologer4U]

Was that him who called me? Someone called me, I answered the phone and I could hear them on the other end listening. I hung the phone up and the first impression I got was that it was my old friend calling me.


Was that him who called me?

In this chart, the ruler of the rising sign is Saturn. Saturn is in the 9th house square the ruler of the Descendant. In this case, I am not able to tell an answer based on this. At what point co significators come in? In which case his co significator would be the Sun and mines would be Venus? Venus is sextile Saturn and Square the Sun in Gemini. Does that mean the answer is no, he did not call me because the indicators are either not strong enough, or to weak?

I could talk about the moon being in the sign that it rules...

I have seen where people have turned the chart around, making the quesited on the descendant in which case if I were to do that Taurus would be his house of communication which is ruled by Venus. If Venus is my co significator, that would put me in his 1st house?


Any tips? am I going to deep? Have I said anything that shows I am making some kind of progress?



Astrologer4U

[Fluffy Girl]

Originally Posted by Astrologer4U

Was that him who called me? Someone called me, I answered the phone and I could hear them on the other end listening. I hung the phone up and the first impression I got was that it was my old friend calling me.


Was that him who called me?

In this chart, the ruler of the rising sign is Saturn. Saturn is in the 9th house square the ruler of the Descendant. In this case, I am not able to tell an answer based on this. At what point co significators come in? In which case his co significator would be the Sun and mines would be Venus? Venus is sextile Saturn and Square the Sun in Gemini. Does that mean the answer is no, he did not call me because the indicators are either not strong enough, or to weak?

I could talk about the moon being in the sign that it rules...

I have seen where people have turned the chart around, making the quesited on the descendant in which case if I were to do that Taurus would be his house of communication which is ruled by Venus. If Venus is my co significator, that would put me in his 1st house?


Any tips? am I going to deep? Have I said anything that shows I am making some kind of progress?



Astrologer4U

hi Astrologer

I'm also learning horary and i would give a try to your question for learning purpose. I interpret it as follows

So, since you are talking about your friend, I think I would look to see if there are any receptions between the lord of 11th, and the phone call, ruler of the 3rd. There is separating quincunx between ruler of 11th (jupitor) and the 3rd (mars). The aspect is separating by 2 units. It could be him.

Let us look at the receptions. The jupitor in virgo is in its detriment. (neg reception). Mars in Aries becomes its own house. Very dignified. So call is comfortable in the house of friend. There is no mutual reception.

May be he called you by mistake or It was may be difficult for him to find a meeting ground. It was difficult for him to talk so he did not talk. He is in detriment in the call's house.

There can be further explanation of the chart through the moon's aspects that i leave on to you to explore and make me learn too.

[Astrologer4U]

Originally Posted by Fluffy Girl

hi Astrologer

I'm also learning horary and i would give a try to your question for learning purpose. I interpret it as follows

So, since you are talking about your friend, I think I would look to see if there are any receptions between the lord of 11th, and the phone call, ruler of the 3rd. There is separating quincunx between ruler of 11th (jupitor) and the 3rd (mars). The aspect is separating by 2 units. It could be him.

Let us look at the receptions. The jupitor in virgo is in its detriment. (neg reception). Mars in Aries becomes its own house. Very dignified. So call is comfortable in the house of friend. There is no mutual reception.

May be he called you by mistake or It was may be difficult for him to find a meeting ground. It was difficult for him to talk so he did not talk. He is in detriment in the call's house.

There can be further explanation of the chart through the moon's aspects that i leave on to you to explore and make me learn too.

Thank you for offering your interpretation. I need to ask, does it make a difference that he is not my friend? We used to be friends and if he were to tell me right now that he wanted us to be friends again, I would accept his offer. However, we are no longer friends and he was the one who ended our friendship. I got a call the other day which made me do this chart. I answered the phone and the person on the other end didn't say anything so the first thing I felt is that it was him and that was the reason for my question. So again, does it make a difference that he and I are no longer friends when it comes to interpreting the chart?



As for the Moon in this chart, it is square Saturn in the 8th house of death so I am assuming that it was not him.



Astrologer4U

[wintersprite1]

Hi Ast4U,

Been busy and really distracted. I am reading this thread and catching up.

This particular time the chart will be read a bit different. You are Saturn in the 8th.... (((Hugs))) He is the Moon, so you don't get a cosignificator this time. What you want to know is if he is the one that made the call. What we need is for his significator (the Moon) to connect with the third house ruler (mars) and the Moon sextiles Mars next. That is a yes. The Moon is in rulership, so it is feeling strong but it is in your sixth house, which makes it the turned 12th to him. The 12th is things that are hidden, secrets and very befitting if he said nothing. Note Mars (the call significator) is in his house. What was the communication going to be about? That is his turned 3rd (your 9th) and Venus rules that house. Venus is in his first house just moments away from being in Cancer, and entering a new phase with Leo. I am assuming something love wise has changed with him, or is about to and that was what the conversation he intended to be that didn't happen out of "shyness" of the moment. The 4th house is ruled by Venus also, the call could have been to create a closure....(I would say that doesn;t make sense, except he is an Aquarian after all)

The reason I took you out of the equation is that you are secondary to the question. If there was something that applied to you, it would show in the chart anyway. What I did was boil down the question and that was phone call him? or 3rd house connected to the 7th house. We know you are connected, you answered the phone. The history you two have together is complicated enough with out trying to pigeon hole him in another house, cause he is more than a friend, more than an affair, the 7th catch all will work best for him for now.

TK

[Astrologer4U]

Originally Posted by wintersprite1

Hi Ast4U,

Been busy and really distracted. I am reading this thread and catching up.

This particular time the chart will be read a bit different. You are Saturn in the 8th.... (((Hugs))) He is the Moon, so you don't get a cosignificator this time. What you want to know is if he is the one that made the call. What we need is for his significator (the Moon) to connect with the third house ruler (mars) and the Moon sextiles Mars next. That is a yes.

First I just want to say thanks for helping me out, you have been very helpful towards me and I really really appreciate it. Also, I am glad to see you peeking in, I sure did miss ya!

Okay, so first part in green, I don't get a co significator this time??? I am trying to find out when are co signifiacotrs appropriate?

Now, for the part in red. I have been also trying to figure out how to intepret upcoming aspects in a horary chart. I thought up coming means what is going to happen next, not what has already happened??? In this chart, moon is already sextile mars, so how is it that moon is going to sextile mars next???

So with Moon getting ready to sextile mars next as you say, that means he is the one who called me? Also, I had accidently called him first, when his voicemail came on, I didn't leave a message. I immediately deleted his number from my contacts after. I am sure that he saw my number in his caller ID. So I am thinking that is the reason why he called me but didn't say anything. I dunno...

That is a yes. The Moon is in rulership, so it is feeling strong but it is in your sixth house, which makes it the turned 12th to him. The 12th is things that are hidden, secrets and very befitting if he said nothing.

Hmmm, that is interesting....

Note Mars (the call significator) is in his house. What was the communication going to be about? That is his turned 3rd (your 9th) and Venus rules that house. Venus is in his first house just moments away from being in Cancer, and entering a new phase with Leo. I am assuming something love wise has changed with him, or is about to and that was what the conversation he intended to be that didn't happen out of "shyness" of the moment.

Wow, that makes since but I guess it won't happen, him letting me know all of that because he is the one who called things off.

The 4th house is ruled by Venus also, the call could have been to create a closure....(I would say that doesn;t make sense, except he is an Aquarian after all)

LOL... exactly and lets not forget he has Moon in Libra and Moon is conjunct Uranus.

The reason I took you out of the equation is that you are secondary to the question. If there was something that applied to you, it would show in the chart anyway. What I did was boil down the question and that was phone call him? or 3rd house connected to the 7th house. We know you are connected, you answered the phone. The history you two have together is complicated enough with out trying to pigeon hole him in another house, cause he is more than a friend, more than an affair, the 7th catch all will work best for him for now.

TK

Your reading was excellent as always and makes really good sense. My daughter asked me that day had I gotten any hang up calls, I told her that I did. She wound up telling me that she has a friend who may have called my phone and hung up out of boredome. I don't feel that was the case that time because if it was, I would not have felt him through the phone, for which I really did.

Thanks again Wintersprite...



Astrologer4U

[Niplan]

"Do the Ascendant Ruler and Planetary Hour Match?"

http://mithras93.tripod.com/lessons/...1/lesson1.html

The lord of the hour, and ascendent ruler have nothing to do with horary, they are used in electional astrology, and to make talasmins. its planetary magic that the hour/lord is used for, Not horary.

The real way to check to see if a chart is fit for judgment, if you really really put that much effort into it, Then you can use the scar/mole technique described by william lilly, which is where X and Y houses in the hroary chart will show which locations the querrant has identifying marks on them.

alot of the rules against judgement, are rules of thumb, and not written in stone, most were made so an astrologer in the dark ages, didn't have to give a bad answer to an angry king.

[Astrologer4U]

Originally Posted by wintersprite1

Hi Ast4U,

Been busy and really distracted. I am reading this thread and catching up.

This particular time the chart will be read a bit different. You are Saturn in the 8th.... (((Hugs))) He is the Moon, so you don't get a cosignificator this time. What you want to know is if he is the one that made the call. What we need is for his significator (the Moon) to connect with the third house ruler (mars) and the Moon sextiles Mars next. That is a yes. The Moon is in rulership, so it is feeling strong but it is in your sixth house, which makes it the turned 12th to him. The 12th is things that are hidden, secrets and very befitting if he said nothing. Note Mars (the call significator) is in his house. What was the communication going to be about? That is his turned 3rd (your 9th) and Venus rules that house. Venus is in his first house just moments away from being in Cancer, and entering a new phase with Leo. I am assuming something love wise has changed with him, or is about to and that was what the conversation he intended to be that didn't happen out of "shyness" of the moment. The 4th house is ruled by Venus also, the call could have been to create a closure....(I would say that doesn;t make sense, except he is an Aquarian after all)

The reason I took you out of the equation is that you are secondary to the question. If there was something that applied to you, it would show in the chart anyway. What I did was boil down the question and that was phone call him? or 3rd house connected to the 7th house. We know you are connected, you answered the phone. The history you two have together is complicated enough with out trying to pigeon hole him in another house, cause he is more than a friend, more than an affair, the 7th catch all will work best for him for now.

TK

Notes to my self are what I highlighted in red.


Astrologer4U

[Astrologer4U]

I lost my van key one time back and posted a thread asking... Where is my van key? I later found the van key in my wallet and my wallet was in my purse. At that time, the chart had a Taurus rising and Venus was in the second house which was to say the least, very fitting.



However, this time around, I have lost my Cell phone, I know it is in the house because that is where I last saw it. I just can't seem to pinpoint where it is located in my house.


The question for this chart is, Where is my Cell phone?

Would I place my Cell phone in the 3rd of communication or in the second of possessions?

[Astrologer4U]

If I use the second house for the cell phone, ruler of the second house is Libra and Venus is in the 11th house in Leo. Would that mean that my Cell phone is in a place in my house where friends and children frequent and being that Venus is in the higher section of the chart, would that meant that my cell phone is up high somewhere?

If I put the cell phone in the 3rd house, ruler of Scorpio is in the 4th house... well, I already know that the cell phone is in my house somewhere.



Astrologer4U

[lillyjgc]

Astrologer4U,

Just a couple of things here:
Firstly, many of us prefer to use Regiomontanus cusps here, for horary, not Placidus.
Secondly, including pars fortuna in missing object charts is a massive help-as it alone can sometimes indicate retrieval if well placed.

Firstly, you are venus, as you have identified, and the phone is mars, as mars rules h3 in this chart.
The two sigs here are exactly inconjunct, indicating the phone is hidden from you.(Mars in h12, ruled by Mercury (phones).)
Venus is in leo and in h11, and the moon is in venus's sign and in your first, BUT in the via combusta, suggesting difficulties.
If we look where Mercury is, we see it in h9.Mercury is ruling the house the phone is in. Mercury applies a square to Saturn, ruler of your home, but one good thing is that the cell phone and the the ruler of your own home are in the same sign and house.
But it is h12-so this could suggest your phone is a fair way from being recovered, timewise.
Maybe repost with Regio cusps and Pars...see what changes then.
Cheers
Lilly

[Astrologer4U]

Originally Posted by lillyjgc

Astrologer4U,

Just a couple of things here:
Firstly, many of us prefer to use Regiomontanus cusps here, for horary, not Placidus.
Secondly, including pars fortuna in missing object charts is a massive help-as it alone can sometimes indicate retrieval if well placed.

Firstly, you are venus, as you have identified, and the phone is mars, as mars rules h3 in this chart.
The two sigs here are exactly inconjunct, indicating the phone is hidden from you.(Mars in h12, ruled by Mercury (phones).)
Venus is in leo and in h11, and the moon is in venus's sign and in your first, BUT in the via combusta, suggesting difficulties.
If we look where Mercury is, we see it in h9.Mercury is ruling the house the phone is in. Mercury applies a square to Saturn, ruler of your home, but one good thing is that the cell phone and the the ruler of your own home are in the same sign and house.
But it is h12-so this could suggest your phone is a fair way from being recovered, timewise.
Maybe repost with Regio cusps and Pars...see what changes then.
Cheers
Lilly

My apologies for the delay... I found my Cell phone that same day and it was in my living room up on top of the wall heater. The wall heater is about 6ft high.



In reference to what you said about using Regiomontanus cusps for horary and not placidus, would that be for all horary questions or just the lost item questions?


Astrologer4U

[Astrologer4U]

Is he the one who called me on June 3oth 4:49pm?


I got a call on June 30th from a long distance number on June 30th at 4:49pm. The person did not leave a message, they just hung up. However, I have one of those voice mail services that tell you when a call was made to you and from what number the call was made from. This particular phone line is a phone line I hardly if ever use and from time to time, I check my messages to see if I got any calls. Well, today, I checked my messages and saw that I had a call for which no message was left.


Is he the one who called me from that number on June 30th at 4:49 pm?


Before I call the number back and ask for him, I would like to know if it was him first.

In the last chart where I asked a question very similar to the same question being asked now... Wintersprite said "What we need is for his significator to connect with the third house ruler"


Would what Wintersprite said apply to this chart as well? If so, the 3rd house ruler is making no connections to his significator and it appears that no upcoming aspects will apply as well. So the answer would be no, he is not the one who made the call that day? Or, is this chart to be read differently, co sigs maybe???

Pluto, is in the 3rd, is pluto a co sig for the 3rd house???

Mars, ruler of the 7th (him) is in the 12th house along with Saturn, is Saturn mixed up in this ordeal some kind of way????



Astrologer4U

[Astrologer4U]

When asking questions concerning ones health, I am place in the first house correct? So the sign ruling my first house, am I supposed to be looking for the planet ruling the first house to make some kind of aspect to the planet ruling the 6th house?


Astrologer4U

[dr. farr]

Originally Posted by Astrologer4U

When asking questions concerning ones health, I am place in the first house correct? So the sign ruling my first house, am I supposed to be looking for the planet ruling the first house to make some kind of aspect to the planet ruling the 6th house?


Astrologer4U

In my opinion, yes; however, in making an element analysis, or asking the question "what's happening with my health", the method used by most European classical astro-medical horary* practitioners is to:
-find the lord of the ascendant
-find where it is placed, then note its lord (dispositor)
-the sign in which that dispositor is placed (and the elemental nature of that dispositing planet), show elemental imbalances

To this I have always added testimony from the place (sign) and dispositor of the Part of Acute (if acute) or Chronic (if longer term) Disease

Part of Acute = asc+mars-mercury (same day/night)
Part of Chronic = asc+mars-saturn (same day/night)
In my experience the inclusion of the relevant Part (and its significator = its dispositor) makes an important addition to delineation.

*see O. Hofman, "Classical Medical Astrology": continental European astro-medical practitioners today rarely use decumbiture, almost always relying upon horary: this book describes their method.

[Astrologer4U]

Originally Posted by dr. farr

In my opinion, yes; however, in making an element analysis, or asking the question "what's happening with my health", the method used by most European classical astro-medical horary* practitioners is to:
-find the lord of the ascendant
-find where it is placed, then note its lord (dispositor)
-the sign in which that dispositor is placed (and the elemental nature of that dispositing planet), show elemental imbalances

To this I have always added testimony from the place (sign) and dispositor of the Part of Acute (if acute) or Chronic (if longer term) Disease

Part of Acute = asc+mars-mercury (same day/night)
Part of Chronic = asc+mars-saturn (same day/night)
In my experience the inclusion of the relevant Part (and its significator = its dispositor) makes an important addition to delineation.

*see O. Hofman, "Classical Medical Astrology": continental European astro-medical practitioners today rarely use decumbiture, almost always relying upon horary: this book describes their method.

Thank you for the in depth information... If you don't mind, and you have time, could you please take a look at the last post I made to these threads and give me your feed back on the interpretations I made, I would really appreciate it. If you are not able to do it, I will understand.


http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=24623

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=25026

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=26693




Astrologer4U

[dr. farr]

Hi! Thanks for the the vote of confidence (re horary) however you must know that the methods I use are VERY different than standard horary practice-note that I label all of my horary delineations with this disclaimer! Experts in standard/traditionalist horary here on AW include Lillyjgc, BobZemco, Konrad, Wintersprite1, and others: they are the ones you would want to ask about your conclusions, if you are looking to learn more about standard/traditional horary delineations.
If you still want me to give my take (from my methods) on the above 3 charts, I shall be glad to do so, as long as you understand where I'm coming from; if so, let me know: if NOT, however, NO PROBLEM as far as I'm concerned.

[Astrologer4U]

Originally Posted by dr. farr

Hi! Thanks for the the vote of confidence (re horary) however you must know that the methods I use are VERY different than standard horary practice-note that I label all of my horary delineations with this disclaimer! Experts in standard/traditionalist horary here on AW include Lillyjgc, BobZemco, Konrad, Wintersprite1, and others: they are the ones you would want to ask about your conclusions, if you are looking to learn more about standard/traditional horary delineations.
If you still want me to give my take (from my methods) on the above 3 charts, I shall be glad to do so, as long as you understand where I'm coming from; if so, let me know: if NOT, however, NO PROBLEM as far as I'm concerned.

Where do your methods come from? Did you make them up? and yes, I would still like for your to share your opinion on my interpretations.



Astrologer4U

[dr. farr]

Originally Posted by Astrologer4U

Where do your methods come from? Did you make them up?
Astrologer4U

I have described the story of my journey in horary both in the skyscript thread "How did you learn horary" (in the skyscript Horary forum), and somewhat also in a couple of posts here on AW. Briefly, way back as a young teen in the 1960's I had attempted to study Lilly, and Simmonite, and became so discouraged that I entirely gave up on divinatory astrology (horary) for Tarot. Later, in the 70's, I became friends with an old (about 80 yrs old) Turkish astrologer here in Los Angeles (Pasha) who belonged to an oral astrological tradition referred to as the "Ankara Tradition "(centered in Turkey, allegedly dating from the 12th century AD and allegedly originated by exiles from Harran {the original "Sabians}, then escaping the Mongol destruction of their city) Over a period of about 4 years, at intervals, Pasha would lecture (at the old Aleph Bookstore in Glendale, CA) about the philosophy, criteria and techniques of this medieval astrological tradition.

Most of my ideas and methods of delineation regarding horary, come from what I learned about the Ankara Tradition via Pasha. To this body of information, however, I added other elements: some bits from the prasna sastra (horary) approach of the Jaimini branch of Vedic astrology which I learned about in Ponmudi forrest, Kerala, from adepts of the Jaimini school. In my eclectic approach I make a more extensive use of Lots ("Arabic Parts") than the Ankara Tradition did; I also have incorporated the Manilius decans (taken from the pre-Ptolemiac "Astronomica" of Manilius), in place of the Sign Face system (of planetary 10 degree rulers in the Chaldean Order) used in the Ankara Tradition; finally-and probably most at variance with the Ankara Tradition-is my exclusive use (over the past 11 years) of the Whole Sign house format:Pasha-reflecting the Ankara Tradition-used the Alchabitius house system (as did, by the way, Al-Biruni, Ibn Ezra, Massallah, Sahl, and Guido Bonatti) My use of Whole Sign is also at variance with the Vedic Jaimini adepts, who use the Equal House format.

So, pretty much that's where I come from relative to horary astrological practice.

[Astrologer4U]

Originally Posted by dr. farr

I have described the story of my journey in horary both in the skyscript thread "How did you learn horary" (in the skyscript Horary forum), and somewhat also in a couple of posts here on AW. Briefly, way back as a young teen in the 1960's I had attempted to study Lilly, and Simmonite, and became so discouraged that I entirely gave up on divinatory astrology (horary) for Tarot. Later, in the 70's, I became friends with an old (about 80 yrs old) Turkish astrologer here in Los Angeles (Pasha) who belonged to an oral astrological tradition referred to as the "Ankara Tradition "(centered in Turkey, allegedly dating from the 12th century AD and allegedly originated by exiles from Harran {the original "Sabians}, then escaping the Mongol destruction of their city) Over a period of about 4 years, at intervals, Pasha would lecture (at the old Aleph Bookstore in Glendale, CA) about the philosophy, criteria and techniques of this medieval astrological tradition.

Most of my ideas and methods of delineation regarding horary, come from what I learned about the Ankara Tradition via Pasha. To this body of information, however, I added other elements: some bits from the prasna sastra (horary) approach of the Jaimini branch of Vedic astrology which I learned about in Ponmudi forrest, Kerala, from adepts of the Jaimini school. In my eclectic approach I make a more extensive use of Lots ("Arabic Parts") than the Ankara Tradition did; I also have incorporated the Manilius decans (taken from the pre-Ptolemiac "Astronomica" of Manilius), in place of the Sign Face system (of planetary 10 degree rulers in the Chaldean Order) used in the Ankara Tradition; finally-and probably most at variance with the Ankara Tradition-is my exclusive use (over the past 11 years) of the Whole Sign house format:Pasha-reflecting the Ankara Tradition-used the Alchabitius house system (as did, by the way, Al-Biruni, Ibn Ezra, Massallah, Sahl, and Guido Bonatti) My use of Whole Sign is also at variance with the Vedic Jaimini adepts, who use the Equal House format.

So, pretty much that's where I come from relative to horary astrological practice.

Sounds very interesting, thanks for sharing.



Astrologer4U