The "Pack Rat" Complex

[Arian Maverick]

One would think that my eighth house Pluto in Scorpio would allow me to dispose of any object regardless of its sentimental value, yet I seem to be unable to delete even the most insignificant private messages cluttering my folder! Is there any astrological explanation of this "pack rat" complex?

Arian Maverick

[laliqueviolin]

I am not sure what else you could be packratting, but I am going to take a beginner's guess on the private messages thing..

Since you, yourself, enjoy bookmarking, collecting and learning a great wide expansion of knowledge, communication, and every little bit of information that may be a great interest to you, along the way you've accumulated just too much information. It's not until you sit down and see that you have too much useless information at hand (I dunno, I know some Cap influences archive a lot of things til they are antiquated lol).

A lot of your planets are at square with Saturn, so I might say when you first see an article at hand, you are eager to read and probably have read them all, but you will put it away til another time or to save it for later. But also, in a way you sorta neglect it. You might "archive" everything, including small things that won't be practical in any sense but helpful to your imaginative colorful thinking or writing, especially if you first thought they were going to help enhance or inspire your imagination when you cannot do this much alone in certain days. Many people need inspiration from outer sources, and sometimes it is a must or our minds become sterile and stale. ...okay maybe that was derailed but I guess the point I am making is that blind accumulation can result into a game of catching-up.

With Pluto in the 8th in Scorp, you might be well off to mentally archive the critical essentials of the things you learn and accumulate, what resource you can extract and give away the materials that so possesses you. I understand your Merc squares Neptune which might get a little troublesome to remember details, but keeping a journal or a book of such "secrets" can help a great deal. I also do this to better ground myself and learn, to sorta cultivate my own unique sense of mercurial hobbies.


..and I am sure I have done it all wrong.. but this is what I tried to intuitively read! I think it might feel quite therapeutic if you used your Plutonian energies at hand, in a massive sweep up. Keep only the vital things.

[Arian Maverick]

I am not sure what else you could be packratting, but I am going to take a beginner's guess on the private messages thing..

Since you, yourself, enjoy bookmarking, collecting and learning a great wide expansion of knowledge, communication, and every little bit of information that may be a great interest to you, along the way you've accumulated just too much information

What an enlightening, accurate description...it's not the absence of a physical object I fear so much as the loss of information and ideas!

This explains my nasty habit of hording magazines until the covers rip and the pages tear; even in this condition, I will methodically examine each page for articles before reluctantly disposing a minority of the magazine's original contents!

Thank you once again, SS!

Arian Maverick

[Manic_Monday]

I have the same problem: I can't throw anything away! I keep everything.
For me, that's caused by my Tenth House Moon - I think.

[Lunar Pisces]

Originally Posted by Arian Maverick

One would think that my eighth house Pluto in Scorpio would allow me to dispose of any object regardless of its sentimental value...

Huh? Water IS sentimental, and you have a water planet in its sign in its house. What's more, we're talking about Pluto/Scorpio - only the most possessive and obsessive planet and sign in the zodiac! Pluto/Scorpio/8th is also highly psychological, even if its motives are a little murky and mysterious. So of course you'd hang on to things - they would have more than sentimental value. They hold deep, probably multilayered psychological significance for you.

Scorpio is also self-protecting, and likes to create barrier to protect itself. So it is possible that collecting stuff is a kind of protection for you from certain insecurites and anxieties - however, this kind of behavior usually isn't as healthy as addressing such insecurities and anxieties head on. Just be careful not to "hide" behind your stuff. It might also be good to get someone you can trust to be firm and decisive to help you throw a few things out - not only would this help you keep this situation from getting overwhelming, it may also be enlightening. A thing's deeper significance may become more apparent as you see how you react to having to make a definite choice to part with it.

[Archer]

My mother is a pack rat. She has sun squaring jupiter- jupiter conjunct ascendant (Libra).
She's also a Cancer and her Chiron is in the 4th.
Neptune (Scorpio) is in the 1st house as well making her very child-like and sensitive.
Gemini moon and venus make her very inconsistent and unorganized, sun squaring mars as well.

[aquarius7000]

Hi,

A couple of thoughts, a prominent Moon, and one in Cancer/Tau could be one of the pointers. Cancer is very sentimental, and Tau needs the physicality plus possession of things (the touch-feel and possess). Signs like Leo and Aries might keep things, if they identify themselves with certain things (the 'I'/'my' factor). Saturn afflictions might also cause 'preservation' of things, whilst Jup over-amassing (though here one needs to differentiate..... Saturnian types might live spartan lives, preserving what they have; whilst Jup could overdo collecting things).

AQ7

[emotionality]

Aqua,

Oh your are very right on this accord,for me anyway I have to save everything information & physical things.I have learned to pry myself away from things.I try to purge my collections about once a month.I could definitely go the way of hoarding one day if I didn't recognize the trait in myself lol After having watched the show called "Hoarders" on A&E I refuse to ever let myself go there

Originally Posted by aquarius7000

A couple of thoughts, a prominent Moon, and one in Cancer/Tau could be one of the pointers. Cancer is very sentimental, and Tau needs the physicality plus possession of things (the touch-feel and possess)

Arian : Just in case you didn't know there is an option to save your whole ibox as a text file or html page ( i think ) is how I get around deleting things for good lol And you can clear out your messages all at once as well as saves time going through them all ^^ Was gonna PM you but your box is full

[astrologer50]

I have found cancer and capricorn the 'worst horders' of the zodiac. Capricorn's hord things for practical reasons, usually having an attice and garage full of junk. Cancerians hord things for emotional and sentimental reasons - like birthday cards, aniversary cards, old photo's anything looking back and nostalgic....

And of course like everyone has mentioned water signs do not like letting go of anything. I don't have anything in cancer or cappi, BUT stellium in 4th house and yes I have horded these cancer type things...

Would have been nice to see your chart to comment further though...

[freedomlover]

The worst hoarder I think I ever met was a triple Cancer. You literally could hardly walk through her house!

The 2 other worst hoarders I've ever met ( and almost as bad) were Pisces. One is a female with 8th house Pisces Sun and Cancer Asc. The other is a male with 6th house Pisces Sun and Virgo Asc. This guy's wife was worse than him, and she was a Taurus Sun.

My grandparents were both hoarders. My grandmother was a Taurus, and my grandfather a Scorpio. However, they both came through the Great Depression, so....
My mother inherited some of the tendencies - she being a 12th house Leo Sun and Virgo rising, but definitely got out of alot it as she got older. I've never been a packrat, except for books and small sentimental mementos. I attribute this to my Aquarius Moon on the cusp of my 2nd, who wants to "pass it along to someone who needs it".

I've actually met a couple of Aquarian females who were very bad packrats. But I suspect that they had some strong Pisces placements that accounted for this.

[R4VEN]

Originally Posted by freedomlover

My grandparents were both hoarders. My grandmother was a Taurus, and my grandfather a Scorpio. However, they both came through the Great Depression, so....
My mother inherited some of the tendencies - she being a 12th house Leo Sun and Virgo rising, but definitely got out of alot it as she got older. I've never been a packrat, except for books and small sentimental mementos. I attribute this to my Aquarius Moon on the cusp of my 2nd, who wants to "pass it along to someone who needs it".

I've actually met a couple of Aquarian females who were very bad packrats. But I suspect that they had some strong Pisces placements that accounted for this.

In my experience the Cancer energy wants to hold on to its memories, so as a50 pointed out, Cancer hoards for emotional reasons. My 4-yr-old grandson has sun in Cancer, and he brings back `trinkets' - rocks and sticks mostly - from adventures and walks he goes on, and he will not let me throw them away!!!! (I have Moon in Cancer, so consider myself to be a `recovering hoarder'.)

What you say about your grandparents, FL, seems to ring true for some older (mostly dead) people I have known. Now, both my parents used to talk endlessly about the Great Depression, mainly because I feel that they were traumatised by the experience of long-term belt-tightening, and that this occurred while they were young, and so it had a dramatic and enduring effect upon the psyche of the whole world at the time. My father (Scorpio Sun & Merc) was a massive hoarder - and I mean massive - mostly of farm machinery and scrap metal........ all of which were valuable, but which were only sold after his death. My mother - a Sag sun with practical and clean Virgo Moon, spent a lot of time in throwing away what he collected. Thus, the same experience had an almost polar opposite effect upon them both.

The water signs tend to be the most sensitive, and so will react in an inward-looking way when their safety is threatened. In my observation a person will only develop hoarding habits if/when/as a result of some kind of threatening event or series of events.
The worst hoarder I know - and she's a true `collector' at heart, but never throws anything away, `just in case'...... - admits to being traumatised by her early life experience of growing up within a non-mainstream religion, one which has in the past few years been labelled a cult. She has quite a packed 12th house, including Libra sun, and Scorpio Asc.

[freedomlover]

quoting R4VEN:

The water signs tend to be the most sensitive, and so will react in an inward-looking way when their safety is threatened. In my observation a person will only develop hoarding habits if/when/as a result of some kind of threatening event or series of events.

One of the Aquarius females I mentioned as being a hoarder (possibly due to Pisces placements) lived with her aged parents for several years before their death ( or they lived with her - so she could look after them). They brought their collective stuff into the house - and their habits. Of course, she was raised with their habits, as they were children of the Great Depression. She was born in early 40's. She still hoards very badly, but I'm wondering if it was maybe just as much parental conditioning, as chart placement?

Her daughter is the Pisces female I spoke of, who now has brought all her stuff into the same house - and they have several generations of things hoarded!

However, with the Pisces female, she will occasionally complain about it, denoting that she sees something wrong with it - and would often ask me to help her. Every time I did, it wound up me doing nearly all the work while she sat back and watched. She pretty much does nothing on her own to change the situation. I've come to the conclusion that is probably sheer laziness/not caring on her part - too passive, doesn't want to work at it. ( The lower vibration of Pisces kicking in.)

The Pisces Male is the exact same way - except he won't even admit it bothers him. His parents did not go through the Great Depression- and he was raised upper middle class. He said his mother was the exact same way, so I guess it was learned behavior, to a degree. His hoarding is combined with filth. Not only will he not throw anything away, but he doesn't keep cleaning products in the house! I've concluded that it is laziness on his part, as well. He says his Taurus ex-wife was worse, and from the pictures of the house he took when he got the house back from her after she moved.... I would tend to agree. ( If you can believe it could be worse.) Also, they don't just hoard stuff that might be valuable... in their cases, its 80% junk -even trash- plastic wrapping stuff came in, empty boxes stuff came in, broken stuff, etc. ( and no, they do not reuse the wrappers and boxes for packing stuff - just goes into mixed piles with everything else.)

I know of another Taurus female who hoarded - several rented storage buildings full of stuff - but she was always neat, clean, and organized with it. However, she did the same thing the Pisces female did - asked me to help her, then sat back while I did the work. Laziness a big factor with her, as well. (Since I'm very organized and NOT a pack rat, my pack rat friends tend to look to me to help them if they decide they want to change.)

The triple Cancer seemed like she hoarded out of psychological fear that she might need it sometime.

So, I guess there are several kinds... those with fear/security issues, those with sentimental issues, and those that are just too plain lazy to do anything about it.