Charm

We've had threads about charm before, and many people think its strong uranus or pluto aspects, and I do agree, but I know one man who is easily the most charming man on the face of the planet. Its not just me either...he knows it, and everyone who has ever met him knows it. He can charm men as easily as women. I tell him to always use his powers for good instead of evil .

He's not insanely good looking, although he's attractive. He has a Sun Venus conjunction in Virgo in the 5th house. He also has Jupiter in Leo in the 5th, and Mars in Virgo in the 5th. Yep, he is Mr. 5th house. He's a Taurus rising, and he has moon in Cap on the MC, so he's almost all earth. Actually, I will post his chart before just to make it easier to visualize. There's no strong Pluto aspect here, or Uranus. Weird. Well, there is if you use out of sign aspects, but I don't. Hmmm. Maybe i should...

Edit: I thought I'd also add in that he does have a predilection to 'embelish the truth' shall we say. I've caught him in lies, as have others but he's so freaking charming that he successfully talks his way out of them, and you wonder how you could have ever thought that he wasn't completely virtuous. It's hilarious.

barbh

You have calculated your chart using the default on astro.com of placidus and I use Equal House system and am a modern astrologer. Lots of people that come into Astrology get their free charts calculated at www.astro.com and the default ‘house system’ used is Placidus and think that’s just the norm and all that there is……..BUT that is just the tip of the iceberg. You can change the default on astro.com in Extended Chart selection to Equal house and a few more.

Throughout the forums but mainly in natal astrology there are two main branches Placidus (unequal size houses) v Equal House (whereby each house is same size) but lots more……. For more information on these go here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_(astrology)#Description
http://www.astrolozy.com/article19.asp
http://www.skyviewzone.com/birthinfoforms2/housesexplained.htm

It's only with study and research will you be able to assess where your planets are deposited and in which houses... thus see which 'glove fits'

Just look at the huge 6/12th axis, this is abnormal. All those planets are in 4th house of Cancer/water in Equal house. Is he a homebody?? Is that where he puts his energy, mars?

His saturn only has one aspect square Jupiter and acts as singleton conj 7th house cusp, this may well delay relationships until maturity. Venus conj mars is prob the most significant for charm, sex appeal etc, plus his mercury is well aspected. Notably trine to moon, which suggest communications with women come very easy. Moon opp uranus to me is on the list of divorce aspects and broken relationships,friendships. Very subjective personality everything below the horizon except moon, which may even be handle of bucket chart.

His chart really lacks the element of air and only 1in air house ie; 3rd Equal house.
Air represents pure thought, communication, intellect, rationing ability with detachment. Air is a mental function, the ability to think and communicate, to discern relations between things and ideas. May produce a preference for communicating with others rather than reading/studying.

Can view things in there clear perspective. Your thought processes may at times operate at the expense of feeling or without due regard to practical considerations. You may be too much up in the air. Lack of air could make someone wary of emotional involvement and prefer to remain fairly detached in your attitude to the people around you.

They do like to keep in touch, to cultivate a circle of acquaintances with whom they can discuss ideas and opinions. Their best possessions are those things that somehow feed and keep your mind active. They will have an ability to gather and disseminate knowledge quick in making connections, seeing how things are related.

At worst you can be rather non‑committal, superficial, too bound up with abstract ideas. Their method of dealing with conflict is to use persuasion and to talk things through. However, you do tend to rationalise emotions and feelings instead of ­understanding them, giving others the impression of coldness and aloofness. Close relationships are experienced best when they have a mental affinity with the other person and where they don't feel smothered by emotions

There has been a thread in on elements
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18077

Thanks for that insightful delineation astrologer50.

Just look at the huge 6/12th axis, this is abnormal. All those planets are in 4th house of Cancer/water in Equal house. Is he a homebody?? Is that where he puts his energy, mars?

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Well, yes and no. He has a beautiful home, and he only travels for work (never just for fun). Hard to say. He does have a nice home, but he is very social as well. I see him as much more of a 5th house kind of person. Triangular love relationships, an early career in sports, a second career schoomzing for Molson Indy, and a third career as an amazingly successful financial advisor, afyer going back to school to get his MBA. No, 4th house does not work here....definitely 5th.

Moon opp uranus to me is on the list of divorce aspects and broken relationships,friendships. Very subjective personality everything below the horizon except moon, which may even be handle of bucket chart.

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Yup. He was married once, and divorced very quickly therafter. He's looking for his 'soul mate', and has never found her. He said he had an amazingly soul matish and loving relationship in his 20s, and he seeks to find that again, yet he never has. Very unsatisfied with his current live in relationship, yet he won't leave her. I don't know why. He says that they have not had sex in a year, but who knows if that's true or not. Big problems in relationships. I think he cheats on her too, but he won't admit it. I've read that Venus conjunct the Sun can produce a nymphomaniac.....maybe. Dunno.
Subjective....absolutely yes. I believe that he is a classic narcissist....clinically speaking. Everything has to relate to him, and he gets bored if its not all about him.
Sort of 'super subjective.'

Lack of air could make someone wary of emotional involvement and prefer to remain fairly detached in your attitude to the people around you.

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That's funny, because i have no air, but all my water makes me extraordinarily empathic. I absolutely do see this detachment in him however.


barbh

I think it may be his Neptune that gives him that ability to charm others. His is the apex of a t-square, and has the most powerful configuration in the chart. And it is the trigger point for his charismatic Moon/Uranus opposition. That angular opposition is very electric and charismatic, and is enhanced by Chiron in exact oppositionto the Uranus @ zero degree Cancer in the 4th. I would think that he can make people feel that he really sees them, and recognizes them, and empathizes with them, when in reality, not so much.

His Neptune sextiles Pluto , which rules the 7th, and that makes one to one relationships
a good outlest for that Neptune t-square tension.

barbh said:

We've had threads about charm before, and many people think its strong uranus or pluto aspects, and I do agree, but I know one man who is easily the most charming man on the face of the planet. Its not just me either...he knows it, and everyone who has ever met him knows it. He can charm men as easily as women. I tell him to always use his powers for good instead of evil .

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Barb,

You present this man as if he impresses everyone. Surely there are some people who meet him, don't feel he is sincere, sense he is "all about himself", etc. For instance, you mentioned that he is narcissitic, that he lies and gets caught, and that you suspect him of not being faithful to whomever he is currently with.

By the way, you have a time of 10 PM. Can that be verified? Rounded off times are seldom accurate.

To be honest, if I had to guess, my guess would have been "manipulator". This is not to say that people who manipulate cannot have great charm. Often they do, which is the source of their charm. I would guess 5th house emphasis, though again I feel suspicious of the rounded off time and so don't want to do much with houses.

Yup - I agree with katydid.

You mention the `embellishing of the truth', and that has the ring of Neptune to it. Neptune in Libra (generational for those born 1943-1957) is a relating placement for Neptune, and this generation were the `peace and love' people of the late 1960's and early 70's. At it's worst it is deceptive, and in square to Moon, can be somewhat delusional. It is possible that he covers the confusion and turmoil his Uranus square to Neptune creates by deluding himself when it suits his purpose. I have that weird on my natal chart, and I am capable of being ultra-charming and likeable, but as I get older I care less and less about how others view me.

For excessive charm (and it is possible to be excessively charming) I usually look to either significant planets in Libra - usually moon and/or Asc - or nicely connected Virgo planets. With both energies the `charm' is only a few millimetres in depth; that is, he probably continues to use it because it works.

Oh - and another possible Neptune Square Moon `handicap' is the belief in there being One True Love, or a Soul Mate somehwre `out there'. That is such a delusion IMO!!!

[Not that I'm all bitter and twisted or anything.......]

It's always weird discussing charm - because the people others find charming, another finds them nauseating. There are different kinds of charm, there is disarming charm or a sweet charm. Usually very complimentary people can be perceived as charming because they flatter you deeply. Venus-Pluto got that tag, there is an instinctive knowing how to please others. People can be naturally charming or know exactly what they are doing, and how win over other people.

Your friend's Sun-Venus is one aspect of charming, and he is Venusian ruled, and you would expect the conjunction in Virgo to appear more humble or helping people, and if time of birth is accurate the Jupiter in Leo 5th is a ball of personality, creative, partying, enjoyment. That placement always reminds me of an overgrown child, enjoying life. Children have a charming way about about them (I might be biased with my Venus in 5th).

Hi,

Firstly, I agree that 'charm' is a broad term and could account for different tastes. Yet, there is a basic definition of charm that should not be difficult to charmingly agree upon for the majority, at least.

barbh said:

....I know one man who is easily the most charming man on the face of the planet. Its not just me either...he knows it, and everyone who has ever met him knows it. He can charm men as easily as women.

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In this guy's chart, undoubtedly, Venus plays a 'charmingly' important role. Venus rules his Asc (how he comes across to others) and is conjunct his Sun (basic/ conscious personality), so, not only good/pleasant looks, but also a pleasing manner might come easy to him. Another factor that plays a key role, in this respect, is his very active 5th house ((self-expression & (romantic) 'pleasures' of life)) with 'Leo' on the cusp. Note that both the lord of the 5th and the Asc, are present in a conjuction in the 5th itself. This adds weight to the house and also to his self-expression/matters of the 5th. Jup further expands on all this and Pluto (9° away from the Sun-Ven conj, even though located in different signs) can obssess one with all that. Though we are not discussing 'magnetism' (another broad term) here, but sometimes magnetism only further pronounces charm or even vice-versa. Now, Leo (gives you presence and a certain warmth, but even arrogance) is one sign and Pluto one planet, plus Pluto-Ven aspects (and here note the importance of Ven as Asc ruler plus conj his Sun) that are connected with magnetism, in turn perhaps subtly connected with charm (my view) . Let me just quickly add that there are other planets that also lend a different kind of charm, like Nep, but it is neither aspecting (major aspect, ie) the Sun, nor the Asc or Asc lord.

barbh said:

I thought I'd also add in that he does have a predilection to 'embelish the truth' shall we say.

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Yet, here the role of Nep cannot be ignored, mainly the tight square to the Moon (self-deception, which may lead to general deception; please I'm not saying that everyone with this aspect will be deceptive). One more thing, the full 5th house makes for a person who may not only be focused on the pleasures and leisures (fun) of life, but also on himself (Leo = ego = I, as opposed to Aqua = we). This focus on the self might also lead him to "embellish the truth" somewhat to get His way. So, it is all a big interplay of all these aspects (and perhaps much more) put together.

astrologer50 said:

Lack of air could make someone wary of emotional involvement and prefer to remain fairly detached in your attitude to the people around you.

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I would say this is true so far that people with a lot of air (and fire) can be more extroverted, have little trouble mingling with the crowd and exchanging ideas, making conversation.. signs like Aqua and Gemini will give anything for a stimulating discussion. So lack of air might make the person more introverted than extroverted (but not necessarily less friendly, or anything).

That's funny, because i have no air, but all my water makes me extraordinarily empathic. I absolutely do see this detachment in him however.

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There is a difference in being quite 'social' and the mixing-up/ extroverted types, yet detached (best e.g. is Aqua, when it comes to personal emotional involvement, though even there there is a difference) and being emphatic. Whilst being extroverted, etc (so having a lot of air through personal planets/ airy houses) does not mean that one may not 'feel for others' (again Aqua might do anything to really help other or others, but will try to maintain that subtle emotional distance); it can make you less involved on an 'intense' one-on-one 'emotional' and 'sensitive' (for lack of a better word) basis, you see. All this is more typical of water.


AQ7

PS: sorry for any spelling errors, etc, but gotta run to work.

Barbh,

Yup. He was married once, and divorced very quickly therafter. He's looking for his 'soul mate', and has never found her. He said he had an amazingly soul matish and loving relationship in his 20s, and he seeks to find that again, yet he never has. Very unsatisfied with his current live in relationship, yet he won't leave her. I don't know why. He says that they have not had sex in a year, but who knows if that's true or not. Big problems in relationships. I think he cheats on her too, but he won't admit it. I've read that Venus conjunct the Sun can produce a nymphomaniac.....maybe. Dunno.
Subjective....absolutely yes. I believe that he is a classic narcissist....clinically speaking. Everything has to relate to him, and he gets bored if its not all about him.
Sort of 'super subjective.

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I think it's great when people 'speak' their charts...
Looking for soulmate, is definately Neptune square moon delussional qualities. Having pluto, jupiter, mars etc in 4th (Equal) suggests this is where he wants control, expansion, love and ego shines..

Also ruler of 7th pluto is in 4th, if it were in 5th may suggest children recreational matters were more important than 4th house matters.It's a close call, do you know him well enough to quizz about family matters, home roots and does his 'home' have lots of actvity/traffic and always something going on there?

Plus mercury rules 5th and is in 5th in virgo, so communications about 5th house matters trine moon in cappi 9th come very easy talking to women, emotions and Cappi values. Capricorn has to have people that are of value to them to improve their social standing

I have venus conj sun in taurus but it's not a nymph it just suggests an 'inner cheerfulness' adding to the sun energies in venusian manner. The nymph quality comes from venus conj mars hon..... that would make someone highly sexed.

Friend of mine who I think is most beautiful girl has Sun / Venus conjonction in Virgo. I`ve observed that people with Mars /Venus conj. are very charmingly too

Yes, I think he's classic Mars Venus conjunction, but I did read somewhere, think it was on Skyscript, about when Venus is combust....it can produce nymphomania, although here Venus is cazimi.

He never ever invites people over to his house. Well, very rarely. He did tell me about a dinner party he threw once, for his business partner and a few business associates, but for the most part, he's ultra private.

None of his close friends even know that he has a girlfriend! Seriously, he has been with her for 5 years, living together, and they all think he's single. I've asked him about this, and he says he likes to keep his private life private, and its no ones' business etc.. Personally, I think he just wants everyone to think he's single so he has more opportunity to cheat, or to meet his 'soul mate.' i don't know this for sure of course, but its a head scratcher. When I asked him about it again, he said he wasn't sure why he doesn't tell people. He does I'm sure, but he's just not telling me.

He's extraordinarily intelligent, and can (and will) debate any point until he wins. Saturn in Scorpio oppose his Asc perhaps.

Charm is a word I've used to describe him, as my friend calls him and his twin brother 'the charm brothers.' Yes, he has a twin born minutes before him...almost completely identical, but his twin is late Aries rising, with all his planets in the 6th house, so he is much thinner. His twin is a physician and surgeon and chiropractor and excels at his job. Very well respected. He is a little more abrupt and coarse in his demeanour, yet people, especially women, just seem to flock to him. He has never married, and has big relationship issues as well.

First guy has that Taurus rising feel to him. You just want to reach out and hug him and touch him, and people do. He can talk to someone for the first time, and within minutes they're laughing with him and touching his arm...and best of pals. Its more of a comfortable likeability that he has.

He never compliments or flatters others. He's way too narcissistic for that. Somehow, he will take what you say and make it all about him, but in a funny or cute way that everyone finds so adorable....so we laugh.

He's a very interesting specimen, as is his twin. Too smart for their own good we think, as they can and most likely do manipulate others for their own sake. Both are very wealthy, and have worked hard at professional excellence. What they both lack, and bemoan, is no true love.

There are 5 kids in the family, and these guys don't speak to most of them. These two hang out with each other only really, and their parents died a long time ago. Its just them, although Taurus rising guy does speak to his younger sister, who is a doctor of chinese medicine, but the Aries rising twin calls her a 'fruit loop' and won't speak to her.

Taurus rising guy calls himself an introvert, and he says that he is shy. Well, he comes across as very humble at first glance, but yet he's not. It's weird. Very social, but in a very low key kind of way. He used to play professional football for gosh sakes....he loved being in the public eye, just because of the applause. He's not in your face at all....very earthy presence. Arrogance for sure.

I think both their lives are very sad, very lonely for sure, even though its self perpetuated out of their own delusion.

Someone here said that he may buy into his own lies, and I think that its true a lot of the time. He actually buys into his own delusions, which make his lies so easy to buy. And, he's smart enough to keep his story straight.

barbh

barbh said:

Someone here said that he may buy into his own lies, and I think that its true a lot of the time. He actually buys into his own delusions, which make his lies so easy to buy. And, he's smart enough to keep his story straight.

barbh

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Despite being `charming', this guy sounds like a narcissist - the psychological variety, not the kind who looks at themselves in the mirror 39 times/hour. True narcissists possess a series of triats, some of which you have described. They are not terribly nice people once you peel away the veneer.

Check out this thread:

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10798&highlight=Narcissists

I absolutely agree!
I was watching Dr. Phil one day and he was discussing Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and then I started to do some in depth research. Even got a book on it. He is classic, classic narcissist. I'd say 80 % full on. It's a continueum....from mild to extreme. The most notable characteristic is their lack of empathy. They really, truly don't care how others feel. And, they are known to be big liars. This thread you posted looks interesting...I shall chime in there

barbh

R4VEN said:

Despite being `charming', this guy sounds like a narcissist - the psychological variety, not the kind who looks at themselves in the mirror 39 times/hour. True narcissists possess a series of triats, some of which you have described. They are not terribly nice people once you peel away the veneer.

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As you know, my reaction was exactly the same.

Charm belongs to Venus and as he has the Sun conjunct and in the 5th of socialising and fun as well as the other placements there. This combination nearly always makes for an attractive and agreeable person. I think Uranus aspects can make for magnetism. Gemini and Libra as air signs can be quite charming, witty and bright with socialising, stimulating conversation and Libra in particular can be refined and courteous with pleasing manners.
Pluto is sexual and Taurus Venus is sensual.

If his twin brother was born only 'minutes' before him then his brother does not have an Aries rising. In fact, his brother would have to have been born about 76 minutes before him to even be at the very last degree of Aries (I'm going by memory that his ascendant was 19 Taurus).


Similar chart to mine. I was born on the same day just 30 years later. Around the same time, too!

hiimnotcool said:

If his twin brother was born only 'minutes' before him then his brother does not have an Aries rising. In fact, his brother would have to have been born about 76 minutes before him to even be at the very last degree of Aries (I'm going by memory that his ascendant was 19 Taurus).


Similar chart to mine. I was born on the same day just 30 years later. Around the same time, too!

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Remember what happened to Narcissus- he fell in love with his own reflection and died.....Try to leave the beauty of your own reflection and save yourself.

barbh said:

We've had threads about charm before, and many people think its strong uranus or pluto aspects, and I do agree, but I know one man who is easily the most charming man on the face of the planet. Its not just me either...he knows it, and everyone who has ever met him knows it. He can charm men as easily as women. I tell him to always use his powers for good instead of evil .

He's not insanely good looking, although he's attractive. He has a Sun Venus conjunction in Virgo in the 5th house. He also has Jupiter in Leo in the 5th, and Mars in Virgo in the 5th. Yep, he is Mr. 5th house. He's a Taurus rising, and he has moon in Cap on the MC, so he's almost all earth. Actually, I will post his chart before just to make it easier to visualize. There's no strong Pluto aspect here, or Uranus. Weird. Well, there is if you use out of sign aspects, but I don't. Hmmm. Maybe i should...



Edit: I thought I'd also add in that he does have a predilection to 'embelish the truth' shall we say. I've caught him in lies, as have others but he's so freaking charming that he successfully talks his way out of them, and you wonder how you could have ever thought that he wasn't completely virtuous. It's hilarious.

barbh

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I'd like to take this opportunity to state that i've always thought of myself as a charmer and note now that this guy has many of the same aspects/configurations as me.

Although i am not insanely attractive either as a female, men tend to fall in love with me. I am easily able to persuade or charm people into my mode of thinking or belief (this helps in my legal career and explains my huge success at advocacy).

I have sun, mars, venus all conjuncting each other in virgo in the 5th house.

I have a taurus ascendant.

I have the moon in aries in the 12th house.

I have heard that the 5th degree shows the ability to charm. Neptune (charming) is retrograde at the 5th degree in the 8th house.

I don't have any strong pluto aspects either. Pluto sextiles my mars and opposes jupiter in the 12th house.

I think the mercury square neptune (only aspect mercury makes) explains my ability to sway others. I can get into their psychology and change it. It's unbelievable. I am able to do this through my active 12th house, leading the way.

I'm with Sun/Venus being the culprit. Venus in conj with Sun/Mars/Pluto always come off as charming to me (only one acts narcissistic though).

I know six people who are very charming, and so I looked up their charts and lo and behold all have strong Venus conjunctions.

One is a Sun/Venus exact conjunct in Scorpio, trine Jupiter. His Mars is also in Scorpio (one of those spontaneous winkers if you know what I mean haha... wish he wasn't married ).

I know four people with Venus/Pluto conjunct in either Libra/Scorpio cusp or Scorpio, and one in Virgo. Libra/Scorpio is a woman who literally has every man who meets her fall in love or become obsessed with her... other women find her charming but really don't understand how she can attract men all ages shapes and sizes like a magnet. She's not "hot" or anything, but just sort of cute and innocent acting. She also has a Libra Sun and Aquarius Moon, and Mars square Venus.

Two are men, and the Libra/Scorpio is a total ham. The conjunction occurs in his 5th house, and his moon is also in 5th house Libra. Some people find him charming and some find him extremely annoying. He checks himself in the mirror constantly, but is a wicked salesman... he could sell you a bag of dirt and you'd think it was the crown jewels (he also has Sun opposed Jupiter and Saturn is unaspected).

The second has a Venus/Pluto conjunction in Scorpio, and he gets into VERY intense relationships. Love is a life and death struggle for him, but from my little "group" he is the least charming (although he's never without a woman chasing him). He has Sun/Saturn conjunction in Sagittarius, and Mars in Pisces.

The last is the a Virgo Venus/Pluto conjunction, with Sun conj Jupiter in Libra, and her Moon in Libra. She has a very earthy charm... it's just plain hard not to like her. Very focussed on relationships, and another spontaneous winker.

The last person I know of gives off a girlish charm even though she is older. She always had men chasing her, and she had lots of friends. She reminds me of snow white. Her voice is high pitch and delicate, but strong at the same time. It's weird. She has Mars/Venus exact conjunction in 8th house Capricorn, trine 5th house Libra Moon (she is also the mother of the ham ... both have 5th house Libra Moons... hmmm).

If I were to scale these people (I'm pretty good at being un-biased... going on how a variety of people react to them) from most charming to least, it would be:

Woman with Venus/Pluto in Libra/Scorpio
Man with Sun/Venus in Scorpio
Woman with Venus/Pluto in Virgo
Man with Venus/Pluto in Libra/Scorpio (Narcissist)
Woman with Venus/Mars in Capricorn
Man with Venus/Pluto in Scorpio

Charm belongs first and foremost to Venus not Pluto. It is also the connection to the SUn and his Venus that is partly the reason. These people are nearly always at least attractive in their manner and image. The air signs are the charmers, Gemini, Libra and Aquarius. They can have easy manner, sparkling and witty conversation and lively intellect. That his chart ruler is Venus conjunct The Sun is also partly the influence at play.