The Empty House Blues

benyaw · #1 05-11-2006, 11:32 PM

Fascinating debate over cusps and rising signs.

But now, how about a new thread to titilate. Again, I'll use my chart as example: houses No. 4 and No. 5 hold no planets, yet house No. 3 contains Jupiter. I've understood, maybe wrongly, that a house with a planet will influence the preceeding house that has none. If this isn't so, does it mean that I care not for families or speculation - two issues that are dear to me. By the way, No. 4's in Capricorn and obviously No. 5 is in Aries.

Ponder well,
Benyaw

benyaw · #2 05-11-2006, 11:37 PM

My mistake. (Blushing now.) No. 4 is in Pisces.

Benyaw.

Mary · #3 05-11-2006, 11:55 PM

Actually, if you have a planet in the late degrees of a house, it woul affect the house where the planet is placed as well as the next house. This applies for any planet and either if the next house is full, "empty" or with only one planet.

My chart is full of examples:

My moon is at 28º gemini and my asc is at 29º Gemini. Actually I feel I have the moon on the asc, but my asc has a touch of "12th houseness". My 1st house is empty (my north node is there).

My Saturn is at 17º libra as well as my 4th house cusp, but saturn strongly affects my 3rd house.

Uranus is at 3º Sagin my 5th house, but my 6th house is at 4º Sag, so actually Uranus affects both houses.

Neptune is 3º before my desc, I assume as a 7th cusp neptune. Most of all because it is opposed to my asc, and eventhough it´s at my 6th house...

Peace,
Mary

Arian Maverick · #4 05-12-2006, 03:53 PM

I am particularly interested in this topic, as the main feature of my natal chart is a massive series of squares between my first house Aries stellium of inner planets--the Sun, Moon, Mercury, and Venus--and my tenth house Capricorn stellium of outer planets--Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune. Mars and Jupiter are both relatively close and are located in the sign of Gemini, yet they are seperated by my third house cusp; Chiron occupies the second degree of Cancer in my fourth house while Pluto is the sole occupant of my eighth house. Therefore, I possess several unoccupied houses: the fifth, the sixth, the seventh (excluding Lilith), the ninth, the eleventh, and the twelfth (exluding my North Node).

Suffice to say that I am very interested in the development of this thread

Arian Maverick

Lapis · #5 05-12-2006, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benyaw

Fascinating debate over cusps and rising signs.

benyaw,

Your too kind. :roll: It was naughty of us to so derail your thread! Sorry about that.

I'm not familiar with what you're talking about empty houses still carrying some planetary energies even though its not in that house any longer. Do you mean that that empty house has ghost like traits from whatever planet it was that HAD been in that house prior? Wow, hum, not sure about that. We're not talking about cusp energies right? The more sensitive a person was then I could possibly see this, like some people who pick up coming transits before most others, but........???

What I've always done with those empty houses was to track down the planet that rules the SIGN on the cusp of empty house's to get some more insight and connections back to it/them.

Frisiangal · #6 05-12-2006, 10:18 PM

I have never heard of planets in one house effecting the following house, EXCEPT through progression. So, in the case of your 3rd house natal Jupiter, it will have an effect upon your empty 4th house should it ever progress into that house.
However, forgive the pun but it 's another kettle of fish if you use traditional rulerships. Jupiter then rules Pisces on your I.C. Therefore, the effect of the 4th house is seen in the 3rd house through Jupiter's position in it. Was this perhaps what you were indicating?

No planets in a house simply means that that particular area of life is not as affected as the area of life in which energy IS focused, through the planets in said house. A planet also takes the affairs of the house of its sign rulership with it as luggage to the house in which it is placed in the birth chart. So the affairs of your natal 5th house with Aries on the cusp will be evident in the house in which Mars is situated.

Hope this helps some.

F.

benyaw · #7 05-13-2006, 12:55 AM

To Lapis - I meant no sarcasm; it was an interesting thread, but it died out. Time for something new.

To Fris - So, Mars, which rests in my 6th house (almost exact on the descendant), would drag with it the aural energy of Aries, the squatter of my 5th? How might this manifest: frivolity at work?

It seems the more one peers at the charts, the more one is apt to THINK he or she sees the glimpse of a ghost of a meaning. Layer upon layer, an onion of fleeting possibilites. Sadly, my spirit demands a wizard cranking the levers in this Oz. At least Frank Morgan (the wizard) would have all the black and white answers I required.

Benyaw

Arian Maverick · #8 05-13-2006, 02:22 AM

Yes, I have definately heard of this before...in fact, Draco agreed to help me re-organize several categories of Our "Astrology Weekly" Natal Charts - Categories to follow this pattern.

Draco, I hope you won't mind if I post a personal message you sent me in order to demonstrate this idea:

Quote:

Hi Beth,

earlier I was just checking through all the charts in the compilations, and I noticed that as some planets in some charts are conjunct the cusps, they are actually considered to be in the house which follows, rather than the latter house.

For example, Radu's Sun is in the 9th house category, but due to conjunction with the MC, it dominates the 10th house, so Radu's is really a 10th house Sun rather than a 9th.

There is usually a 5 degree orb used. If the planet is within 5 degrees of the cusp of the next house, then it is considered to be in that next house. Having said this, the 5 degree orb is usually used in horary, and perhaps a more conservative 3 degree orb would be better.

Perhaps there should be a distinction between those that have a planet right within a house, and those that have that planet approaching or on the cusp of a house?

I will go through all the charts today and see which charts might be inaccurate, due to the planet concerned having close proximity to a cusp, and so being in that house, rather than the former.

Perhaps it might be worth asking Radu what he thinks about this?

In any case, charts such as Radu's or Laura Elizabeth's would definately be 10th house Sun's and not 9th, because their Sun's are conjoined with the MC.

See what I mean?

I'll have a comb through the charts later on, and send you my findings.

See ya,

Draco

Arian Maverick

Frisiangal · #9 05-13-2006, 08:16 AM

Quote:

earlier I was just checking through all the charts in the compilations, and I noticed that as some planets in some charts are conjunct the cusps, they are actually considered to be in the house which follows, rather than the latter house.

For example, Radu's Sun is in the 9th house category, but due to conjunction with the MC, it dominates the 10th house, so Radu's is really a 10th house Sun rather than a 9th.

There is usually a 5 degree orb used. If the planet is within 5 degrees of the cusp of the next house, then it is considered to be in that next house. Having said this, the 5 degree orb is usually used in horary, and perhaps a more conservative 3 degree orb would be better.

[..].............

I'll have a comb through the charts later on, and send you my findings.

See ya,

Draco

I have never heard of more than a 3 degree orb for this theoretical practice.
If one believes that a Higher Intelligence OR we, ourselves, create/ have influence over our birth charts, then, by simple logic, the planets are where they are for a reason.
If H.I. Or 'I' wanted the planets elsewhere, they would have been put there .

In Radu's case, his Sun is within 2 minutes of a degree of the MC. His birth within a minute later puts the Sun further into the 9th house, not into the 10th. He also has Leo on the 9th house cusp! His personal creativeness in producing a website regarding his personal philosophy/ beliefs, and that reaches further than his native country, says more about a 9th house Sun than a 10th house Sun. But that's just me

F.

Frisiangal · #10 05-13-2006, 09:07 AM

[quote="benyaw"]

Quote:

To Fris - So, Mars, which rests in my 6th house (almost exact on the descendant), would drag with it the aural energy of Aries, the squatter of my 5th? How might this manifest: frivolity at work?

The 5th house is representative of your personal creativeness. Where do you apply it? With Mars in the 6th house...in areas where you can provide a personal service. Depending upon the aspects, with Mars in Taurus you apply your energy in a physical way. You aren't so much a go-getter planner as a diligent worker who can be relied upon to get things done...OR, it's something in yourself that you must learn to develop. Although you will take longer to do it, your work is functional and sound, and people will still be able to view it in 50 years.
Confrontation with male colleagues is probable as the competitiveness of Mars is always high, but the female population will be drawn to you....especially with that Scorpio Ascendant as well !!
With Mars so close to the Descendant, you could eventually work in a marrriage/partnership situation. But you will want things done YOUR way.

Quote:

It seems the more one peers at the charts, the more one is apt to THINK he or she sees the glimpse of a ghost of a meaning. Layer upon layer, an onion of fleeting possibilites. Sadly, my spirit demands a wizard cranking the levers in this Oz. At least Frank Morgan (the wizard) would have all the black and white answers I required.

Yes; the onion is often applied to astrology. It really is a case of Alice in Wonderland opening doors! The more you know, the less you know.

F.

Lapis · #11 05-13-2006, 08:35 PM

benyaw,

I absolutely know that you meant no scarcasm. I was trying to honestly apologize to you for helping to (IMO) derail your thread. I felt bad and just wanted to let you know.

Howl · #12 05-14-2006, 11:14 AM

Uh, hehe, pardon my post here, but I'd like to put out a question about the empty house blues

In interpreting a chart, am I correct in assuming that IF a house is tenanted, the planet in that house is primary in describing the energies of the house, and following the house's sign ruler comes second?

If so, how do you 'integrate' the implications of planets in a house with the sign on the cusp and the position of that sign's ruler?

ooo the mind boggles :mrgreen: if anyone has a theory/they'd like to share, please do

Howl · #13 05-14-2006, 11:42 AM

Hahah, I just realised I'm actually talking about the full house blues :roll: humour me, please :P

At the risk of talking about myself too much, I'm going to attempt to interpret a house/planet placement in my own chart, and see if anyone out there can let me know if I'm on the right track. Here goes!

Seventh house. Sign on the cusp is capricorn, indicating a certain liking for structure, commitment, reliability, possibly even prestige in my relationships with significant others (we'll ignore seventh house 'enemies' for the moment - I'd like to think I have none

)
However, an aquarian venus lives in the seventh house, indicating quite a strong desire for and ideal of open, expressive, possibly somewhat unusual/distinct relationships based around harmony and friendship. And...Saturn, Capricorn's ruler, lives in Libra in the third house. Does this mean that the harmony of my relationships have something to do with communication? Does the fact that Saturn is in Libra, a venusian sign, link things further? Oh god, I've lost my train of integration ?!?

So, instinct tells me this all adds up to relationships that ARE quite structured but in a 'distinct' or unusual way, and based strongly on harmony through communication.

Perhaps now I'm just throwing words together. Perhaps I don't like capricorn on my seventh house cusp?! Hehe, so if anyone has a more systematic way of putting that together, or if you want to tell me that some of the elements I'm considering are less important than others, please step in here

Frisiangal · #14 05-14-2006, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lissilu

....................................

So, instinct tells me this all adds up to relationships that ARE quite structured but in a 'distinct' or unusual way, and based strongly on harmony through communication.

Perhaps now I'm just throwing words together. Perhaps I don't like capricorn on my seventh house cusp?! ....................

lissilu

No one knows better than you what you seek in a relationship. What you write sounds a good astrological interpretation. Depending upon Saturn in Libra's aspects in the 3rd house, judicial documents and contracts, family dependency and /or responsibilities, serious discussion rather than friendly chats, the provider whilst one in the relationship studies/qualifies, are all possibilities (and more!) that, as you say, will give structure to a 7th house relationship. At a pinch, your partner could be a distant cousin or the boy down the road (3rd house)

Also remember that 7th house relationships are any that are on a private one-to-one basis. You could well be seen as the authority that others seek to confide in for professional advice without judgment ( Saturn in Libra in 3rd house).
Are you the peacemaker in your relationship with siblings? A 3rd house Saturn can represent the eldest, a difficulty with siblings, or the sibling that takes on the responsibilities for the others.

F.

Howl · #15 06-04-2006, 08:12 AM

Hi Frisiangal,

Thanks for the insight! Somehow I forgot to reply until now. Um, I am the youngest. I've never had any real issue with any of my siblings, more like unending support actually. I've often wondered what that saturn is doing in my third house. The only thing I can think of is that when I was younger, age 14 to 17, I had to wear a brace. Seems like a 'saturn' like thing, all about structure, limitations, and no small measure of pain and discomfort!! The third house is about your early life and schooling, is it not?

Apologies for hijacking the empty house blues