Mercury and Saturn

[wayne penner]

It was quite an interesting discussion on Venus and Saturn and I wondered what people may think of Mercury and Saturn in aspect.

To my mind these two have so much in common that any aspect between them is beneficial, even the square and opposition. I would go so far as to say that even Mercury square Saturn is decidedly benefic, more so than the trine, giving a deep and pensive attitude, a careful, conscientious, well-ordered mentality, scientific, logical and in every way orderly.

The conjunction is a bit more plodding perhaps as Saturn always seems to dominate any planet it conjoins. But Einstein, who had the conjunction in Aries in the 10th otherwise unaspected, stated that he wasn't especially intelligent but that he simply never stopped concentrating on the problem at hand.
It probably lives to itself and keeps it's own company, something of a "curmudgeon" in later life, eccentric, a loner, preferring its own work to frivovolous pursuits.

Interestingly, to me anyway, several presidential candidates in 2008 have this aspect, Thompson and Clinton (square), Obama, Ron Paul and kuchinich (opposition), Giuilini (semi-square), Huckabee (sextile), Mitt Romney and Tancredo (sesqui-quadrate), Not at all sure what this may mean ... except perhaps that they sense that the US is in disarray at the moment and it requires a firm hand to deal with the many problems it faces.

[elevens]

Interesting.

I have the square -- 5 degrees wide, but Saturn's nearly exactly square my Mercury-Sun midpoint.

But I prefer the candidates with the opposition -- no one comes close to Kucinich and Paul.

[wayne penner]

Originally Posted by elevens

Interesting.

I have the square -- 5 degrees wide, but Saturn's nearly exactly square my Mercury-Sun midpoint.

But I prefer the candidates with the opposition -- no one comes close to Kucinich and Paul.

[non-astrological comments deleted - moderator]

Mercury Saturn sees into the very essence of things, clearly and concisely. It is a most maligned aspect and wrongly so. I have an exact semi-sextile (within four minutes of arc) and it has helped me through a lot of emotional issues and other than Sun Saturn the ADVERSE aspects are probably the most favorable for business interests.

[wayne penner]

[non-astrological comments deleted - moderator]

Look at the business leaders' charts of the US and you will see a continual procession of Mercury Saturn aspects, usually inharmonious, beginning with Warren Buffett. They have it all under control.

[Arian Maverick]

I've often blamed this aspect for my great difficultly writing essays that are focussed and to-the-point instead of my preferred style of long and meandering before I realized that Mercury actually forms a closer square aspect to Neptune than Saturn (these two planets are conjunct within a degree or so in Capricorn).

Yet despite the fact that my natal Mercury is also combust, I have never had much difficulty in communication, which puzzled me somewhat until I read your post that any aspect between Mercury and Saturn is beneficial. Unfortunately, it's difficult to isolate any one aspect or influence in a natal chart; Mercury may also have strength being angular in the first house and in mutual reception with Mars in Gemini.

I'm curious to hear others' opinions about this aspect...

Arian Maverick

[gaer]

Originally Posted by Arian Maverick

I've often blamed this aspect for my great difficultly writing essays that are focussed and to-the-point instead of my preferred style of long and meandering before I realized that Mercury actually forms a closer square aspect to Neptune than Saturn (these two planets are conjunct within a degree or so in Capricorn).

I haven't added anything to this topic because it could be on many different levels or go in many different directions. I am interested in the opinions of people who have the hard aspects.

I have Mercury trine Uranus, with Saturn almost exactly at the midpoint and so sextile to both. My own interpretation is that it's easy for me to express unusual or unorthodox ideas in a rather logical or at least "non-threatening" way. In otherwords, I'm very open to new ideas, but my mind is very disciplined. We also have to examine houses and signs and the rest of the chart, of course. I also think with Saturn where it is, conjunct Venus in my 12th house, I immediately move to an "intellectual" level when I feel upset, irritable or down. At those times feelings are very hard to deal with.

Your chart is very unusual. You have that incredibly tight three-way conjunction, Sun/Mercury/Venus, all sort of centered around 16 degrees (using a conenvenient rounding for a midpoint) and square Neptune/Saturn, again using a rough midpoint at about 13 degrees.

I have your chart in front of me, which I believe I got from this site, but I don't want to say too much about it in case you feel a bit private about it.

I would only say that with such intense energy (in the aspects/chart), I think it would be very hard to figure out which square or conjunction is dominant.

I do think your chart is one of the most unusual ones I've seen in a long time.

g

[enigmas]

how similar is saturn mercury aspect with saturn in 3.house?

In my opinion saturn in 3.house is bad and harder aspect-> blockade...is this true?

[wayne penner]

Originally Posted by enigmas

how similar is saturn mercury aspect with saturn in 3.house?

In my opinion saturn in 3.house is bad and harder aspect-> blockade...is this true?

Well Saturn has to be somewhere, and most of us experience difficulties by his sign and house placement, especially in early life.
A lot depends on aspects and especially how well integrated Saturn is in the chart - the more aspects the better, usually, and even bad aspects are better than none.

Life probably gets easier the more you can make friends with Saturn, but you cannot fight him because he is the immovable object.

[elevens]

Wayne.. Oprah Winfrey has a Saturn-Sun square, 3 minutes from exact. From what little I know of her I wouldn’t say she makes compassionate (and therefore wise) business decisions, but she sure is rich.
[non-astrologcial comments deleted - moderator]

Enigmas.. I think third-house Saturn people often communicate about what’s important to them.. and that they value and respect the importance of communication, much more so than people who are simply free verbal spenders

Shining Ray.. Compensation for lack of confidence, but also for Saturn’s conservative, dry inhibition of expression. In the quote you posted from Liz, “there must be present a reasonable degree of intelligence, sensitivity, and complexity of character in order for such distortion or overcompensation to exist.” Maybe the Saturnine pressure to conform becomes unbearable, or at least depressing.
As a long-suffering Neptunian, I don’t buy all of that Neptune negativity! Partly because it’s often clumsily laid upon those Neptunians who don’t deserve it, but will accept it.
The quote in your signature, Shining Ray.. is that yours?

I'm entering my Saturn return, and my mean old 12th house Saturn squares third-house Mercury, Sun, and Neptune in my chart, so these topics are all super-interesting.

[gaer]

Originally Posted by Shining Ray

I personally would never have associated Mercury/Saturn as a possible liar.

I don't either, and I'm not convinced. I think there have to be other aspects, and I would also think that other aspects would be better indicators.

Meanwhile, here is something interesting which I sort of expected. I associate a "sharp tongue" with harder aspects between Mercury and Saturn, especially when they aspect some of the "power players" such as the Sun, Uranus, Jupiter, Pluto.

I threw in Brokaw as the "exception". He has the easy aspect.

For shortness, here I'm using "/" for a conjunction.

Tom Brokaw: Sun/Mercury sextile Saturn/Mars
Steven Allen: Sun/Mercury square Saturn and opposite Pluto
Don Rickles: Mercury inconjunct Saturn (less than a degree) and trine Neptune.
Johnny Carson: Mercury/Saturn trine Pluto sextile Jupiter.
Jerry Seinfeld: Sun/Mercury (very wide conjunctino) opposition Saturn (Saturn is very close to dead-on opposition to Sun/Mercury midpoint.

I was also surprised how often I found Mercury/Sun (conjunct). I was checking for comics, the ones who are known for being really "quick".

Notably lacking: Robin Williams, George Carlin.