12th house planets....not the end of the world

Munch · #1 01-12-2012, 09:26 PM

I read so much about how terrible 12th house planets are in composite charts.

I wonder if there is anyone else out there who has a really fantastic, solid, loving relationship while having planets in the 12th. Yes, there are challenges, but it doesn't spell DOOM.

My boyfriend and I have Pluto and Saturn in the 12th, have sun square moon and venus square mars. He's my best friend, biggest supporter and I genuinely feel like he is my team mate in life. I guess, I just want to show that just because something looks bad at first glance, doesn't mean it's the end of the world. It doesn't mean a relationship is unhealthy and going to lead you through hell. It just is what it is. Focus on the good and be aware of the not so good, but don't ever let it overwhelm your sense of proportion or create issues where there are none.

twelthnight · #2 01-12-2012, 10:09 PM

Yes, my bf and I also have quite a lot in the 12th house. I think the key is remaining grounded and never letting paranoia or unfounded fears take hold. We are very happy together, but I know that were either of of less mature, we would certainly be vulnerable to typical 12th house scenarios. With maturity most difficulties can be overcome. Many composites with heavy 12th also have many, many positives going for the couple so it's a matter of how well you deal with your own 12th house issues.

Munch · #3 01-12-2012, 11:26 PM

Agreed! To be fair, I am 31 and my boyfriend is 25 so I suppose that helps. And I am certainly not saying that we don't have issues. We definitely do from time to time and they are very much so Saturn/Pluto 12th house issues, but we handle them pretty deftly. I think our synastry goes a long way towards explaining that.

Starry~* · #4 01-17-2012, 11:47 PM

I'm so glad you started this thread! After researching about my own 12th house synastry/composite with my bf, I felt some what poop'd

My current boyfriend of 7 months and I have 12th house synastry.
My venus, merc, pluto falls into his 12th house. He also has his sun conjunct saturn there in his 12th house.
His pluto falls into my 12th house, widely conjunct my sun (6')

We do have Pluto Conjunct Sun DW (but both are pretty wide I guess...6 deg and 5 deg)

..and that's only our synastry.

In our composite, we have sun conjunct pluto exact degree in the 12th house. We also have a venus,mars,saturn stellium in the 1st house but it's squaring jupiter in the 4th (I guess that means it's a bad thing?? I duno) We also have composite moon in 8th house trining sun, pluto and merc.

The first thing ANYONE says about our composite is that it is not complimentary in anyway mainly because of subconscious control issues...but I have yet to see any controlling done in our relationship???

I think you guys are right in saying that it depends how "mature" the people are. If they aren't ready with facing their 12th house problems, they'll surely run away. This guy has sun conjunct saturn in scorpio and mars/jupiter in capricorn. On the surface, he is very happy-go-lucky and carefree (Saggy ASC) and also very cutesy-child-like (Moon in Aries). But there are times when he really puts his foot down and I get to see the real "core" of his being - the sun conjunct saturn. I think if someone has some "mature" aspects in their charts, they can handle the 12th house issues with others.

Both him and I have our suns in the 12th house natally. So in that case we can relate.

But I guess there IS something true for us about the 12th house - our relationship is hidden...that is because we met at work. We worked in the same department and our desks were literally just 10 feet away from each other. It felt really strange for us because we don't want people to know about our "forbidden" relationship, but at the same time we don't like having to hide each other from people...does that make sense? We talked about this issue and we both agreed we don't want to hide it..but it's necessary as our jobs are very important to us. We've both accepted it, and although we were in the same dept, we put our personal things behind and dealt with each other in a business-like manner. It is SUPER weird for us at first but we got used to it and handled it very well later till he got transferred to another department (not related to the issue of our relationship)

It's not that NO BODY in the job knows about us - we only tell friends/co-workers who are SUPER CLOSE to us, whom we 150% trust - Him being a scorpio, and me being a scorpio rising, heh...

Are any of your relationships "hidden"?

Munch · #5 01-17-2012, 11:57 PM

My boyfriend and I met at work as well! He was dating another person at the time and in truth he and I didn't begin to see each other for quite some time after we met.

Interestingly enough, my Sun and Mercury occupy his 12th house.

Starry~* · #6 01-18-2012, 12:07 AM

Interesting!!

My bf and I were both in a relationship when we met at work. We didn't really notice each other until we started interacting with each other for work related purposes. But when we hit it off, we hit it off FAST. I broke up with my bf of 4 years (which was a long distance relationship) for this guy, and he also broke up with his girlfriend of 2 yrs (also a long distance relationship) for me.

It was quick and we hit it off fast and hard. I blame this on our Venus / Uranus conjunction though. I'm Uranus, he is venus, orb is about 2 degrees or so.

We also have Saturn Conjunct Venus in synastry, it's a DW also, but my saturn conjunct his venus is at a much tighter orb than his.

How do you feel about 12th house "psychic"-ness? Can you sense each other's moods? I've heard often that when it comes to 12th house, it is EXTREMELY karmic and people can definitely "feel" each other without words and know what the other is thinking.

Have you experienced that?

I don't know about knowing what the other person is thinking, but I can GUESS what he is thinking. But we can both definitely feel each other's "mood" so-to-say. When I feel he is upset or angry, for some reason, I get the feeling like there are knots in my stomach, and that's when I back off of him, stop nagging/whining (lol), talk less, let him have his own space. When he feels I am upset or something's bothering me, I can sense him feeling a bit worried/uneasy. He tries to talk to me and ask me what's wrong even when I don't show it at all and hide all my problems behind my poker face.

piscesnurse · #7 01-18-2012, 08:45 PM

munch Hello, i have always admired your work by the way I have sun, venus mercury and pt of fortune all in the 12th I have had a great life not without difficulties but i can so easily see why and how things have happened I think it is a blessing and i have always felt spiritual, am a nurse and my guy has sat and chiron in pisces we are happy and together
I have to admit i get defensive of the 12th house and all of the negative things i hear people say most people make it seem like doom and gloom and i feel it is a blessing
thanks

Starry~* · #8 01-19-2012, 01:41 AM

I think my life purpose is to learn to be more Uranian. Learning to "live the moment" and stop hoping and throwing myself in the future. I guess I'm too uptight. My bf has Uranus in the first house and he is like you - take things one day at a time and not commit to forever. Though just because you uranians are like that, does not mean one bit that you guys are not serious about love, right? I'm sure that you love your bf.. I guess the keyword here is devotion and loyalty that doesn't need to be shown by using time and marriage to measure it.

I think that's one major difference between my bf and I. People have seen his chart and the first thing they pick up on is that he is "iffy" about commitment. But I remember he asked me a really good question once..he said "What is commitment? Is commitment marriage? You should know that if I'm with you, I'm already committed, right??" and it really made me think HARD. I used to be like that - Live a day at a time..why worry about marriage? Marriage used to be something that was last on my priority list. I'm still young, healthy and vibrant, why have I been sulking over this topic?? I guess my biggest hint is that Transiting Saturn has been sitting in Libra (my sun/moon/mars sign) for the past year and a half. All of these skeletons and self evaluations are coming out. This is something I'm suppose to learn from, I know. I've gotten into this idea of "committment" and "marriage" so much the past year that I've completely lost sense of myself...I used to NEVER be like this...I used to be happier also..

Anyways, sorry for that LONG IRRELEVANT rant...haha.

Munch · #9 01-19-2012, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starry~*

But I remember he asked me a really good question once..he said "What is commitment? Is commitment marriage? You should know that if I'm with you, I'm already committed, right??" and it really made me think HARD. I used to be like that - Live a day at a time..why worry about marriage?

This sounds so much like me. If you are dating someone that is notoriously single and yet they have given themselves over to you, that IS commitment. And we keep in mind that commitment is different than chaining someone to you. There are a billion uncommitted marriages out there where the people involved neither support or encourage their partners. I swear, it has been my experience by observation that the second people put the rings on, they stop working like somehow it'll all work beautifully on auto pilot. Not the case, relationships are dynamic things created by two dynamic people, meaning that it will always be in some sort of state of flux. You show commitment by doing the work and showing a willingness to adapt to your relationship and partner's needs.

Thanks Piscesnurse! I appreciate the affirmation.

I'm glad that you too see the 12th house as a blessing. Its all about perspective isn't it?

retinoid · #10 01-19-2012, 02:46 PM

To be fair Saturn isn't such a bad placement in the 12th house even according to traditional/vedic astrology which REALLY says the 12th house is bad (losses, karma, incarceration, disease...). So their interpretation is Saturn will 'restrict' these things, which isn't so bad...

However, in my experience, the 'malefic' houses in traditional/vedic astrology (6th, 8th, 12th) are really difficult houses to have a lot of planets in. I have 8 of the 9 planets in the 6th and 8th houses. Now, the fatalistic interpretations I find are annoying and inaccurate...but they ARE uncomfortable houses because what they rule are usually not the greatest of things. Though houses aren't all bad, but some have uncomfortable elements compared to other houses. And when people tell me they are depressed, anxious or what not...I look to the 12th and 8th houses first.

The 6th house is a house of 'service', health/disease and daily routines. Ancients interpreted service as being a servant/slave which is why it is so bad. It also rules diseases. But also health and daily routine. I interpret the 'service' now as being self less and helping others. Not such a bad thing and it is more relevant than being a slave.

Starry~* · #11 01-19-2012, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munch

This sounds so much like me. If you are dating someone that is notoriously single and yet they have given themselves over to you, that IS commitment. And we keep in mind that commitment is different than chaining someone to you. There are a billion uncommitted marriages out there where the people involved neither support or encourage their partners. I swear, it has been my experience by observation that the second people put the rings on, they stop working like somehow it'll all work beautifully on auto pilot. Not the case, relationships are dynamic things created by two dynamic people, meaning that it will always be in some sort of state of flux. You show commitment by doing the work and showing a willingness to adapt to your relationship and partner's needs.

Thanks Piscesnurse! I appreciate the affirmation.

I'm glad that you too see the 12th house as a blessing. Its all about perspective isn't it?

Wow, thanks for that clear uranian perspective about committment. I know it's really weird for me to think or talk about marriage recently, I don't know why that topic has been plaguing me this whole year!~ But I was the same -- my parents had a divorce when I was young and I never got to meet my father and hardly had a loving relationship with my mother. I was raised by my relatives and grandparents. But you are right...when people put the rings on, they feel their relationship has been put on auto pilot....no one wants to work at it anymore...hence the divorce.

Truth is, to me it sounds like you guys are more focused on the real things in the relationship - working together. Why do so many people push for marriage? For a piece of paper? (and perhaps $1249812498124 on a 1-day ceremony?) Does that piece of paper mean that people won't cheat? I think it's all society's pressure. I guess now that I've seen it like this, I've learned to let go and loosen up. I have to admit, family and some close friends put pressure on me when they talk about marriage. I guess in a way it's gotten to me since they've been talking about it so much.

As for the 12th house I really think it's perspective. Nothing in astrology spells DOOM for any relationship. If 2 people are willing to work at it, then that can overcome all aspects. Even the most "heavenly" synastry/composite with little or no hardships wouldn't mean anything if the couple wasn't able to learn and grow from mistakes together.