Is The Premeditated Killing of any Human Being Ethical and/or Morally Justifiable??

[JUPITERASC]

Countdown to executing Troy Davis has entered the final hours. A campaign to spare his life drew support from former US president Jimmy Carter and Pope Benedict XVI, helping him escape three previous dates with death in a racially-charged case. There was no physical evidence tying Davis, then 20, to the shooting and several witnesses at his trial later recanted their testimony. In the letter made public by Amnesty International USA, Davis insisted the campaign continues saying: "This struggle is for all the Troy Davises who came before me and all the ones who will come after me. I'm in good spirits and I'm prayerful and at peace. But I will not stop fighting until I've taken my last breath." Davis didn't want a last meal. He planned to spend his final hours meeting with friends, family and supporters. According to an advocate who met with him late Tuesday, he was upbeat, prayerful and expected last-minute wrangling by attorneys.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/g...ution-14569626

It is an all too familiar story. Three teens found themselves sentenced to life for three murders they were innocent of but then spent eighteen years on death row, under threat of lethal injection.

CBS has a video of their story - The West Memphis 3: Free (they were reprieved) at http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?...g;mostpopvideo

for Troy Davis however, time 'is running out' despite strong evidence that Troy Davis is innocent http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video...nna-glover.cnn

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/audi...ing?intcmp=239

[tsmall]

No, it isn't. Ever.

[ImNotThere9]

-----------------------------

[Shadowflash]

To echo tsmall, below: NO. Not EVER. And any attempt to finagle some kind of sophisticated justification or rationale for it is the height of human arrogance and hubris. End of story.

Love to all.

[JerryRR]

"I have come to the conclusion that executions solve nothing,and are only an antiquated relic of a primative desire for revenge which takes the easy way out and hands over the responsibility to the people....The trouble with the death penalty has always been that nobody wanted it for everybody,but everybody differed about who should get it."

Albert Pierrepoint.

Voluntary Euthanasia,I feel should be available for people.

J.

[dr. farr]

I join with the "NO" opinions, posted above.

[tikana]

Originally Posted by JUPITERASC

Countdown to executing Troy Davis has entered the final hours. A campaign to spare his life drew support from former US president Jimmy Carter and Pope Benedict XVI, helping him escape three previous dates with death in a racially-charged case. There was no physical evidence tying Davis, then 20, to the shooting and several witnesses at his trial later recanted their testimony. In the letter made public by Amnesty International USA, Davis insisted the campaign continues saying: "This struggle is for all the Troy Davises who came before me and all the ones who will come after me. I'm in good spirits and I'm prayerful and at peace. But I will not stop fighting until I've taken my last breath." Davis didn't want a last meal. He planned to spend his final hours meeting with friends, family and supporters. According to an advocate who met with him late Tuesday, he was upbeat, prayerful and expected last-minute wrangling by attorneys.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/g...ution-14569626

It is an all too familiar story. Three teens found themselves sentenced to life for three murders they were innocent of but then spent eighteen years on death row, under threat of lethal injection.

CBS has a video of their story - The West Memphis 3: Free (they were reprieved) at http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?...g;mostpopvideo

for Troy Davis however, time 'is running out' despite strong evidence that Troy Davis is innocent http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video...nna-glover.cnn

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/audi...ing?intcmp=239

problem with 7 ppl retrieving their testimonies didnt show up to appeal to be cross examined

that is the only thing..

T

[JUPITERASC]

Troy Davis was lethally injected at Georgia Diagnostic and Classification Prison in Jackson. His last moments were described by local radio journalist John Lewis, who witnessed the event. Mr Lewis said: "He was strapped to the gurney when we walked in and, when the warden asked if he had to make a statement, he lifted his head up and looked directly at the front row, right where the MacPhail family and friends were sitting. "He said that he did not have a gun. He said that he was not the one who took their son, father, brother and he said he was innocent." The journalist added that the MacPhail family "hugged somebody" after the death and "seemed to smile about it". "For the MacPhail family at least, they seemed to get some satisfaction from what happened," he added.

CNN report says "Davis said the case merited further investigation, talking fast as officials prepared to give him the lethal cocktail"
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/09/22/ju...html?hpt=hp_t1

http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video...hman-davis.cnn

[*emma*]

when there is doubt its never right at all

[Mark]

I have two persuasions about this one. Firstly, the intentional killing of an human is never the right course of action. Secondly, if you're going to execute someone, quit being a p**** about it and just shoot him in the head. A "lethal injection" for the state of Georgia costs about $450 per "dose" and an elaborate system of application involving many people (some of whom get paid for this). If you're going to make yourself a murderer, don't pretend you're being humane. If you were really humane, you would be rehabilitating that guy instead of killing him. So, just shoot him in the head already. At least we wouldn't have to wonder whether or not he regained consciousness and remained paralysed while he slowly died. Humane my ***.

[Caprising]

So what would you do if some maniac was chasing you with a machette in his hand, and had stated his intention of cutting you to peices?....and you had access to a gun.....There are some circumstances that are acceptable!

[MaeMae]

Tikana ~
believe me, i am on the fence.
i just don't like the expense and moral quandry.
i prefer they airdrop folks like these into the harshest jungle or wilderness and let them meet and deal with others like themselves.
then we can blame it on nature's way.

[tikana]

MaeMae

Not good enough!

Tik

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by tikana

MaeMae

Not good enough!

Tik

Vengeful killing for reasons of hatred is not good enough either... that's because IMO

1. Killing is wrong

SO

2. “The Death Penalty” is wrong (because killing is wrong)

3. Emotional feelings of anger and revenge are no justification for killing anyone either (because killing is wrong)

IMO none of us can avoid Karmic consequences. Killing is wrong

Originally Posted by Mark

General Address: In a karmic context, it doesn't really matter why you kill. Once you kill, you are a killer and you will be visited by a killer's karma. "Self defense" is an human justification for doing something that would otherwise be obviously wrong. We all want the freedom to act selfishly in certain situations (self defense, raising our own children, et cetera), so we create loopholes in the law to allow us to be selfish in these circumstances. Therefore, legality has nothing to do with right or wrong in this context. Karma will work the same way, regardless of human law.

I agree with Mark - IMO over time, the immutable, impersonal, Universal Law of Karma inevitably balances circumstances equitably

[tikana]

Jup

if someone burns you alive or someone you love *god forbid*, i would love to hear your/your family comments

you can phisolophise all you want moral and immoral, but when tragedy of this caliber hits your family, you will change your tune

80% of ukraine right now are screaming "bring back death penalty!". People spoke for those victims and for the voiceless. Go an preach your theory to Oxana's mother. Go on go ahead...

besides i was talking to MaeMae not you.. and on top f that. you keep posting the same post over and over agian to whoever disagrees with your or your buddy Mark. *rolls eyes* you wont succeed in convincing me nor change my mind on death penalty .. barking at the wrong tree


T

[MaeMae]

tikana ~
the sad reality is that horrible things like this happen every day in u.s. and i have been pondering this for decades in my own mind.
i keep coming back to my thoughts of judgement day. a life taken is life taken.
at the end, i'm not sure the "how" will be a consideration.

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by tikana

Jup

if someone burns you alive or someone you love *god forbid*, i would love to hear your/your family comments

you can phisolophise all you want moral and immoral, but when tragedy of this caliber hits your family, you will change your tune

You are wrong tikana. That is just emotive talk, appealing to the worst in human nature. You cannot say that with any certainty and you cannot predict that for definite.

Originally Posted by tikana

80% of ukraine right now are screaming "bring back death penalty!". People spoke for those victims and for the voiceless. Go an preach your theory to Oxana's mother. Go on go ahead...

besides i was talking to MaeMae not you.. and on top f that. you keep posting the same post over and over agian to whoever disagrees with your or your buddy Mark. *rolls eyes* you wont succeed in convincing me nor change my mind on death penalty .. barking at the wrong tree T

tikana, you repeat the same basic post repeatedly yourself and if you wish to speak personally to MaeMae then send her a pm because this is a public forum and many people are reading your post - not just MaeMae! Obviously, anyone can make a comment with regard to any comment posted to this thread by anyone because that is what a public forum is intended for. I started this thread and so naturally I have a particular interest.

From your comments, it seems that you think that human life is of no value and that you and others somehow have a right to kill people but I disagree with you. Obviously you dislike my disagreeing with you but it is necessary to accept that we just disagree. It happens

Originally Posted by MaeMae

tikana ~
the sad reality is that horrible things like this happen every day in u.s. and i have been pondering this for decades in my own mind.

I agree MaeMae these events are sad to be happening in a so-called 'civilized' world

Originally Posted by MaeMae

i keep coming back to my thoughts of judgement day. a life taken is life taken.
at the end, i'm not sure the "how" will be a consideration.

I agree that the focus needs to be placed on the fact that a life taken is a life taken... no matter how that life has been taken - it is nevertheless a life taken and nothing can alter that fact.

This subject is not an easy one to discuss and fwiw IMO it is important to keep the discussion calm and centered

[tikana]

Originally Posted by JUPITERASC

You are wrong tikana. That is just emotive talk, appealing to the worst in human nature. You cannot say that with any certainty and you cannot predict that for definite.

tikana, you repeat the same basic post repeatedly yourself and if you wish to speak personally to MaeMae then send her a pm because this is a public forum and many people are reading your post - not just MaeMae! Obviously, anyone can make a comment with regard to any comment posted to this thread by anyone because that is what a public forum is intended for. I started this thread and so naturally I have a particular interest.

From your comments, it seems that you think that human life is of no value and that you and others somehow have a right to kill people but I disagree with you. Obviously you dislike my disagreeing with you but it is necessary to accept that we just disagree. It happens

I agree MaeMae these events are sad to be happening in a so-called 'civilized' world
I agree that the focus needs to be placed on the fact that a life taken is a life taken... no matter how that life has been taken - it is nevertheless a life taken and nothing can alter that fact.

This subject is not an easy one to discuss and fwiw IMO it is important to keep the discussion calm and centered

whatever!

like i said go preach that to ukranian people .. they would love to hear your take

" it seems that you think that human life is of no value and that you and others somehow have a right to kill people but I disagree with you."

kill / intent to kill while invading someone's home/country - be killed .. simple! I have right to protect my own life/ my family's life / my country!
dont twist what I SAID! Everyone's human life has a value BUT NOTwhen that perso crosses over the line (attempts to murder / murders / rapes / molests / or causes any other kind of human/inumane animal/lifestock damage. If a person comes in with a gun or any other weapon, army, whatever, rapes and murders or even threatens, I will take them out if I HAVE to. i wont blink nor come up with an excuse why would i value his/her/their lives. either i die or he/she/they die. Live today fight tomorrow! Welcome to planet hell!

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by tikana

whatever! like i said go preach that to ukranian people .. they would love to hear your take " it seems that you think that human life is of no value and that you and others somehow have a right to kill people but I disagree with you."

kill / intent to kill while invading someone's home/country - be killed .. simple! I have right to protect my own life/ my family's life / my country!
dont twist what I SAID! Everyone's human life has a value BUT NOTwhen that perso crosses over the line (attempts to murder / murders / rapes / molests / or causes any other kind of human/inumane animal/lifestock damage. If a person comes in with a gun or any other weapon, army, whatever, rapes and murders or even threatens, I will take them out if I HAVE to. i wont blink nor come up with an excuse why would i value his/her/their lives. either i die or he/she/they die. Live today fight tomorrow! Welcome to planet hell!

Clearly your opinion is that you have the right to kill but that is exactly what every killer thinks. Many disagree. Killing is wrong and nothing makes killing the right thing to do.

Emotive speeches cannot justify killing in order to satisfy basic killer instincts motivated by revenge and hatred – quite simply, killing is either right or wrong and IMO it is the wrong thing to do. If you read that link you posted at http://www.kyivpost.com/news/opinion...detail/125174/

you would discover that Amnesty International says the death penalty is discriminatory and is often used disproportionately against the poor and members of racial, ethnic and religious minorities. Moreover, in some countries, “it is used as a tool of repression to silence the political opposition.” Considering Ukraine’s political landscape and the sorry state of its judicial system, the death penalty could well be the ultimate weapon of political persecution.

Courts are unreliable; everyone has rights... Human life is not something to treat lightly. Whether you believe in God or not, it is something unique and amazing. Not to mention that in modern society, the right to human life is indispensable, along with the right not to be subjected to cruel, inhumane or degrading treatment. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights protects human life and the death penalty violates the right to life. This argument against capital punishment is mocked by those who stand for killing criminals, with eye-for-eye arguments. However, with the numerous pitfalls of any judicial system, there is always the risk that an innocent person gets executed.

But even if the judicial system was flawless, there is always a question of who has the moral right to conduct the execution. Why would someone have the right to kill, even on behalf of the law?

Amnesty International's 201 report shows 139 countries have abolished the death penalty. Reportedly, 67 handed out death sentences in 2010 and 23 carried out executions. These are record low numbers, as human rights organizations continue pressuring governments to drop the death penalty. The United Nations General Assembly called for an end to the death penalty in 2008, and although governments don’t have to follow the recommendation, it certainly reflects a trend.

The European Union is opposed to this form of punishment and consequently all 27-member nations have dropped it.

If these and other reasons are not persuasive enough for Ukraine to abandon the idea of reviving the death penalty, the nation should remember its resurrection will kill the remaining hopes that Ukraine will ever become welcome in a democratic, law-abiding, humane Europe... source article by Alyona Zhuk

[tikana]

Originally Posted by MaeMae

tikana ~
the sad reality is that horrible things like this happen every day in u.s. and i have been pondering this for decades in my own mind.
i keep coming back to my thoughts of judgement day. a life taken is life taken.
at the end, i'm not sure the "how" will be a consideration.

MaeMae

when 18 year old gets raped by 3 animals .. she starts screaming I will go to police... the animal in youtube video is the one who is strangling her .. then he sees she is still alive, wraps her with a bedsheet then dumps her body in abandoned construction zone and sets a body on fire, 10 hours later someone finds her. People heard cries but no one came to help until mid morning. what justification are we talking about here? Life in prison 3 meals a day? these animals are in their early 20s.give and take 60 years they will be alive. and there is a video on youtube one of them confessing .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ldL-...eature=related look at his demeanor. no regret no nothing like it is normal thing.

http://www.kyivpost.com/news/opinion...detail/125174/
this is the reason why ppl want to take justice into their hands cause court FAIL why? cause there is some kind of up high connection.
so common people are openly talking about orgnaizing its own patrol teams.

when the last time the US had 3 animals rapiing a girl, chocking her to death, dumping her body and sitting it on fire? we are no angels but if something like this would have happened, it would be on the news somewhere, dont you think>?

Ukraine took out death penalty because it is bidding for EU union spot. one of the conditions to be EU country, death penalty has to be completely removed. since Eu is not doing too good, Ukraine is slowly turnng away which will bring death penalty back on the table

T

[MaeMae]

Tik ~
a couple years back, in Florida ~
4 teens did just that to another teen. perhaps more gruesome circumstances, which included breaking knees, hog tieing, shooting him and then cutting him up before burning him.
i felt the same as you did.
a fair trial and a fast hanging is what i hoped for.
then i thought about the additional innocents who suffer, multiplied. it creates zombies.

if there were a way to test newborns for serial killer genes, should we kill them to satisfy our fear?

It was with this thought that i determined my personal understanding.
I do not discount anything you've said. Those emotions are real in me as well.

[tikana]

MaeMae

Remember the Conneticut case?
2 robbed the house took wife as a hostage
raped 2 girls along with a wife burned the house down
husband survived.

both were convincted and sentenced to death. I'd say justice has been served

there is no such thing as serial killer gene. It is a bit of a stretch. Personally i think everyone is capable of killing if pushed to that point.

my mom used to work with a lady. under very strange circomstances she died. Her hubby claimed she lost balance and fell backwards splitting her head. It was never investigated. Years later there were some indications and evidence it was a murder. Husband did it. She never saw justice. So yeah it is very close to me cause I knew her. She used to babysit me at times cause she couldnt have kids of her own.

Cases like that dont happen to often but in eastern block it seems to be monthly event. The case with the girl that is in coma in the same town
same night. Human life to these animals is worthless.

T

[MaeMae]

Tikana ~
you are discussing, now, the hopeless ignorance of humanity.
devaluation of life.
in which case we should all be killed....
the only true way to save the earth is to decimate the humans? i can't say i would disagree to such a thought at this point in my life.
some people believe it is the only way.
For one of the rare times, i am unemotional in this discussion.
something must be hitting softly, my gemini moon.

[tikana]

Originally Posted by MaeMae

Tikana ~
you are discussing, now, the hopeless ignorance of humanity.
devaluation of life.
in which case we should all be killed....
the only true way to save the earth is to decimate the humans? i can't say i would disagree to such a thought at this point in my life.
some people believe it is the only way.
For one of the rare times, i am unemotional in this discussion.
something must be hitting softly, my gemini moon.

in animal world, animals of the same kind kill
it happens in RL

dunno
T

[Neptune Rising]

I agree with Tik, killing in self defence is something some people would do. I would probably do this if my familys life was being threatened.

Murder is another matter, premeditated. humans are the only beings on this planet that murder each other. Many psychological reasons for that.

I feel then that murder is morally wrong, killing i feel is a natural instinct as a last resort. If a loved one, family was threatened, i wouldnt even think, i would immediately protect them.

Im only on my android phone, appologies for typos.