Angles and how they work

[LittleMiss]

I have two angle-questions I would like do discuss.

The first one is: Do you belive the ascendant and its sign is something we are "useing" more when we are insecure of ourself? Either especially in certain situations or in genereal if we are insecure in life...

The other thing is planets in the birth chart in contact with the angles, or in transit. Do the angles work as "doorways" in and out of our chart? F.eks if you have moon conjunct asc in the birthchart, can you somehow say that the moon energy pours out from the ascendant?
Or if you have venus in transit conjunct DSC or MC, do some kind of venus-related people and events in a greater extend affect us, through the angles?

I'm sorry about my explanations and my english. Hope you understand. Would appreciate others thoughts on this!

[astrologer50]

Originally Posted by LittleMiss

I have two angle-questions I would like do discuss.

The first one is: Do you belive the ascendant and its sign is something we are "useing" more when we are insecure of ourself? Either especially in certain situations or in genereal if we are insecure in life...

The other thing is planets in the birth chart in contact with the angles, or in transit. Do the angles work as "doorways" in and out of our chart? F.eks if you have moon conjunct asc in the birthchart, can you somehow say that the moon energy pours out from the ascendant?
Or if you have venus in transit conjunct DSC or MC, do some kind of venus-related people and events in a greater extend affect us, through the angles?

I'm sorry about my explanations and my english. Hope you understand. Would appreciate others thoughts on this!

Now basically your sun sign is your 'core beliefs, values, ego' and Asc is your physical body, mode of expression and mask and persona that we all wear and hide behind, but definitely not what's going on underneath. What's going on underneath is your Sun sign. Moon sign, house placements and aspects describe your emotional and intuitive responses, also describes your view of your mother, as saturn describes your father by sign and house position.

So, think of a glass milk bottle the bottle is your Asc and your sun the milk, but the milk still has to 'come out' through the glass neck of the milk bottle....

Now aspects within a natal chart represent 'facets' of our personality, because we are all multifaceted beings. What these do is 'break down and compartmentalise' these facets into smaller bite size chunks. This does take quite a lot of self analysis and objectivity to 'see yourself' and why you do certain things and behave in certain ways. Actually it can be quite good therapy...

Remember back to your school days an opposition is 180', square 90', trine 120', and sextile 60' Now challenged aspects are conj (depending on the planets, cos some like each other and some really don't) squares and oppositions. Easy aspects are conj (if the planets get along) eg: Jupiter conj Moon, sextile and trine. Quincunx is inbetween (depending on the planets) causes health strains and unresolved or hard to balance planets/energies.

The Angles are *sensitive points*

Houses: angular houses 1/7 4/10 the energies of planets placed here are obvious cos it's your 'shop window' visible for everyone to see. Next the succeedent houses 2/8 & 5/11 the energies in these houses are not in shop window the are in the shop, but stood behind the counter, ready to come out when needed. Lastly, cadent houses 6/12 & 3/9 these houses/planets are not in shop window or stood behind the counter, they are in the back storeroom and only come out when 'triggered' or an emergency and much harder to recognise and access...

The houses are like the backdrop of a stage, the setting if you like, the planets are like actors and the aspects are how the planets behave in that settings/stage....

“The angles of the chart are the strongest, most potent sectors. In most house systems these mark the beginnings of the first, tenth, seventh and fourth houses, in order of potency. Any planet in conjunction with an angle will have a marked influence that resonates throughout the chart and greatly colours its overall meaning. Planets located in the angles of the chart are the strongest and most significant. Because of their primary importance, the angles are often referred to as the cardinal points and they relate directly to the cardinal directions east, south, west and north.”
http://www.astrologycom.com/houses.html

“The eleventh, second, eighth and fifth houses are called succedent ("following" the angles), while the third, twelfth, ninth and sixth are termed cadent ("falling away" from the angles). The succedents are next in strength. Planets in succedent houses function at around 50% of their power, based on the strength of an angular placement, which is the most potent. The cadent houses are traditionally held to be poor and of little efficacy.

According to traditional astrology, planets in cadent houses only function at 25% of their power, compared with a position in one of the angles of the chart. The succedent houses follow the angles; the cadent houses come after the succedents.”
http://www.astrologycom.com/houses.html

if you have moon conjunct asc in the birthchart, can you somehow say that the moon energy pours out from the ascendant?

basically yes, if you have any planet conj Asc/Desc MC/IC then the planet's energy will be much more obvious and visible to others are that are around and know you...

Where in a chart does a person see himself
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=157562#post157562

[Claire19]

Originally Posted by LittleMiss

I have two angle-questions I would like do discuss.

The first one is: Do you belive the ascendant and its sign is something we are "useing" more when we are insecure of ourself? Either especially in certain situations or in genereal if we are insecure in life...

The other thing is planets in the birth chart in contact with the angles, or in transit. Do the angles work as "doorways" in and out of our chart? F.eks if you have moon conjunct asc in the birthchart, can you somehow say that the moon energy pours out from the ascendant?
Or if you have venus in transit conjunct DSC or MC, do some kind of venus-related people and events in a greater extend affect us, through the angles?

I'm sorry about my explanations and my english. Hope you understand. Would appreciate others thoughts on this!

Our ascendant sign is our mask and how we use survival tactics especially in early years.....It is our persona and what people see when they first meet us. Everything filters through the ascendant. Once again we cant really talk in general terms. Always the chart has to be looked at.

[LittleMiss]

I wanted a general discussion, allthoug I am aware that this would be different from person to person. I am aware that the ascendant is the persona people first see when they meet us, I'm thinking about this one step further - if people (unconsiusly) fall back to the ascendant traits when they are unsure in situations...

The reason why Im asking the ascendant question is that when I've been studying people I know, it seems that the people who are more in touch with their true self, more comfortable in their own skin seems to show less of their ascendant sign than those I know who are more insecure of themselfs. In those people I find the sun more hidden.

(I guess this would not apply if a chart has many aspects to the ascendant, either from sun or other planets, but trying to talk general here).

And I've also noticed, especially from my own life, that when I'm tense and insecure in sosial gatherings I become more virgo-like (virgo asc).
I freeze up and something in me wants to act very "proper", even though that is not always me, it just happens automatically.
Maybe a sagittarius ascendant finds himself talking loudly when nervous? Would be interesting if someone had similar experiences!?

[EJ53]

Originally Posted by LittleMiss

...it seems that the people who are more in touch with their true self, more comfortable in their own skin seems to show less of their ascendant sign than those I know who are more insecure of themselfs.

I see the four Angles as "doorways"/windows, through which we see others (and are seen by them) LM...with the glass in each window being "coloured" by the sign on the cusp...

We see/are seen by strangers through the Ascendant window...by family/those who know us well, through the IC...by partners/those who know us intimately, through the Descendant...and by collegues/outside world associates, through the MC...

Thus, we might view a well-known friend (and them view us) very differently now to how we did on first meeting as strangers (or colleagues)...because we have become more comfortable (and therefore "open") with each other...[With Virgo "reserve" becoming either "outgoing" Sagittarius or "all-embracing" Pisces.]...and looking through these different windows is one reason why a person might seem more "comfortable in their own skins".

However, I note that you are not referring to this kind of "comfort through familiarity"...but rather to "strangers/colleagues who are comfortable enough to always be themselves" in the presence of others" (and so, make you feel comfortable enough with them to also be yourself)...

And, in those cases, I think synastry is normally playing a significant part...So, we see them (and they make us feel) that way because of a specific planet-to-planet/planet-to-point/planet-to-angle or angle-to-angle contact between us.

...when I'm tense and insecure in social gatherings I become more virgo-like (virgo asc)...Would be interesting if someone had similar experiences!?

I use my Virgo Ascendant that way too...It's the window through which we all assess strangers "who might become friends", but Virgo wants to project a "perfect" (prim and proper) self to anyone who might be assessing them as potential friends.

EJ

[LittleMiss]

We see/are seen by strangers through the Ascendant window...by family/those who know us well, through the IC...by partners/those who know us intimately, through the Descendant...and by collegues/outside world associates, through the MC...

... This was interesting, is it like this really? I hadn't thought about it that way...
That sets off a whole lot of new ways in seeing things. It is of course a fact that we get more comfortable and more ourselfs the more we know each other. But I had never thought about it in terms of the angles in that way, besides from the ascendant, because that is often the first impression.

But in my own example I wasn't talking about that kind of familiarity no.

Even though I know, for example my mother very well, if I'm out with her among strangers I can see and feel when she slips into her aries ascendant. I know her on another level of course, but I can see how she acts then which isn't really her... (and also see what kind of first impression she then makes on people she meet). And I think it is from that kind of watching I've been thinking that the more comfortable people seem to be, all over, the lesser they slip into that ascedant-persona!?

It's a theory... don't know if it applys but I do think it has some sense to it.

- And yes, I really hate my virgo ascendant sometimes. (Opposisoning my sun so I think I'm allowed a bit of harsh feelings towards it ). I seem to project the "good girl" wherever I go, and it is frustrating to hear myself say "Yes of course" nodding and smiling as an automatic reaction to almost everything, even thoug I would have yelled "NO" if I had an opportunity to recognize what I really feel and act according to that instead.

[EJ53]

Originally Posted by LittleMiss

...the more comfortable people seem to be, all over, the lesser they slip into that ascedant-persona!

Maybe they slip out of it quicker, rather than slip into it less?

For example...

As a 62-year-old, I'm now "comfortable in my own skin" and my natal Virgo Ascendant has progressed (through Libra) to 11+ degrees of Scorpio...Yet, people encountering me for the first time still see over-analytical Virgo rather than fair-minded Libra; psychology-interested Scorpio or the "moralistic troublemaker" of my exact Uranus/Jupiter/Ascendant Tsquare...

But now that I'm more comfortable with myself, I happily reveal my true self "warts and all" in first-time conversations with anyone...leaving some feeling "he's an open/honest/friendly guy", and most thinking "that nutter's got absolutely no understanding of social boundaries"

EJ

[Kenoshamaensa]

Originally Posted by EJ53

But now that I'm more comfortable with myself, I happily reveal my true self "warts and all" in first-time conversations with anyone...leaving some feeling "he's an open/honest/friendly guy", and most thinking "that nutter's got absolutely no understanding of social boundaries"

This gave me a wonderful laugh for the evening ...

It's also what I admire about older people ... they ARE more secure in themselves and more likely to tell you what they think/who they are. (I also found this to be true of the terminally ill when working in hospice ... they have no time for game-playing; loved it. That is not, mind, to imply you're near to death, EJ! *grin* But I think, as we get older, we realize we *don't* have all the time in the world.)


On angles (and back on topic), I have a somewhat related question here about "pure" Asc versus strong planetary aspects to Asc. And by strong I mean conjunctions, oppositions, strong squares and trines and sextiles.

In a VERY loose, unorganized look at several charts lately, I noticed that several for people I know well that have a planetary aspect to the Asc, that aspect tends to have a strong impact on *appearance*, sometimes overriding traditional "physical" descriptions for the rising. BUT the person still "presents" in ways that match the rising. I'm thinking in particular of three charts. One is my own, where Saturn affects my appearance and I don't necessarily "look" that Piscean ... but people still RESPOND to me as if I were a Pisces, not Capricorn (or even Aquarius). Another friend has Mercury there, and his appearance is a blend of Gemini and Virgo (with a Puckish feel) ... but his Scorpio Rising, and boy, people (especially other men) REACT to him like a Scorpio Rising. Another has Venus on the Asc with Sagi rising, and while you can sorta see the Sagi, I'd have nailed him for Libra ... but his *personality* (I don't know him that well) strikes as very Sagi happy-go-lucky and people respond to him so. Another is a Libra Sun, Capricorn Rising, but with a very strong Venus trine ... and again, it seems to affect her looks, complimenting the Libra sun ... but she's got that Capricorn ambition and hard-nose for organization/business.

Most of those were conjunctions, but I did try to poke at a couple that had (close) other aspects to the Asc. It is a small sample, no question, and I want to look at my filed charts to see what else I see, but ...

Thoughts, folks?

(And I should add that I'm NOT discounting that the planet(s) have an impact on the personality, just that they seem to over-ride the traditional "look" of the Rising sign, but not the perception of that person by others.)

[byjove]

Originally Posted by LittleMiss

I have two angle-questions I would like do discuss.

The first one is: Do you belive the ascendant and its sign is something we are "useing" more when we are insecure of ourself? Either especially in certain situations or in genereal if we are insecure in life...

The other thing is planets in the birth chart in contact with the angles, or in transit. Do the angles work as "doorways" in and out of our chart? F.eks if you have moon conjunct asc in the birthchart, can you somehow say that the moon energy pours out from the ascendant?
Or if you have venus in transit conjunct DSC or MC, do some kind of venus-related people and events in a greater extend affect us, through the angles?

I'm sorry about my explanations and my english. Hope you understand. Would appreciate others thoughts on this!

I can't comment on using the AC related to insecurity, but as for TR angles, TR Uranus is retro-ing my Merc/MC. I've been watching it come for some time, and as often happens with different kinds of Uranus touching angles, I moved quite a distance! I moved to another country. Technically, Mercury is at the very end of my house of education and ... I've moved abroad for education!