Should I confess romantic interest?

[Kenoshamaensa]

Okay, fairly simple yes/no question. Long-term friend, trying to decide whether to risk talking to him about my romantic feelings for him, so "Should I confess romantic interest?", e.g., will it be positively received? I've been waffling for a while for a wide variety of reasons ranging from the fact he's considering taking a job overseas to the fact he's allergic to my cats (!) to the fact he's younger, I'm not sure he's interested, and we have a very good friendship I'd rather not endanger. We also have a pretty good synastric chart, but some indications of both strengths and *instabilities* in the composite. Finally decided to just try to cast the question as a horary question.

I've looked into a little horary, but I'm no expert. Chart follows, and following that, my own attempt at an analysis. :-)




All right, I'm assuming the rising/1st is me and the 7th is him. I read Aquarius with the traditional ruler of Saturn, and Leo on the 7th means the Sun. Both are conjunct in the 7th house, which would on the face of it, indicate a positive outcome.

But it also squares the moon which rules the 5th house (Cancer) and also sits IN that house (of romance).

It's a much closer conjunction than a square, but I'm not sure WHAT to make of that. The Sun-Saturn conjunction is all the way up in Libra (not Leo), which is ruled by Venus conjunct Mars in the 8th house in Scorpio. Furthermore, Venus rules the 8th house Libra, while Mars rules Scorpio where both are actually located ... and of course, Scorpio traditionally rules the 8th house. So it looks like a lot of sexual power there.

The 7th and 1st houses are really full in this chart. 3 in the 7th, and 3 in the 1st. The 1st house has Jupiter there, but it's conjunct Uranus of course, which doesn't point to stability. (And in our composite chart, these 2 are in opposition.) Neptune is also there, RIGHT on the ascendant. That suggests confusion for me (or perhaps deception, although in this case, I'm a little more inclined to read it as confusion) I should also add that my Neptune is conjunct his Mercury in synastry and also conjunct his ascendant. Overall, the synastry chart is good, but it does have some challenging aspects (like that one). Neptune in bad placement makes me nervous, so I'm leery of seeing Neptune sitting on the ascendant.

Further thoughts? Where have I misread or over-simplified?

[dr. farr]

(Following is not in accordance with standard horary practice)

In my eclectic approach to horary (largely following the old Ankara tradition)
1) this is an advice-request horary and is delineated differently than a regular-type horary question
2) querent = 1st house = aquarius = saturn significator
3) quesited (other person) = 7th house = leo = sun significator
4) sun has absorbed saturn and now saturn sits in cazimi-in the heart of the sun: there is no question (from my perspective) that the advice from the cosmos here is "yes, definitely you should make your feelings known" to the other person; with querent significator in the very heart of the quesited, no other delineation is necessary to understand the advice being given by the cosmos...

[Baha]

Hi,

The planet representing Aqua is Saturn rather than Uranus?

[DiDi]

I think saturn is not in good place right now being burnt by the sun... so he will not respond well to this how you would like him to.

you have neptune right on the asc... ( nep is not used normally unless on the asc or points here) its showing you may think the news would be welcoming to him... so idealistic you could say.

the angles are all fixed so the situaltion will not change anytime soon.

also your 5th and his 5th will be comming to a square (moon to saturn)
so by telling him would be a bad idea now.

moons next aspect is to square the sun him so na i wouldnt do it... not yet anyway

id leave him with some thoughts of warm fondness and keep in touch, but not tell him outright truth...

[Kenoshamaensa]

Originally Posted by Baha

The planet representing Aqua is Saturn rather than Uranus?

When working with horary, yes. You use the traditional rulers, not the three outer planets. That much I do know.

Thanks to both who've replied, although very different replies!

[Arijana]

I don't think it would be a good idea.


You are Saturn and Jupiter,he is Mercury and the Sun ( the sun being the 2nd significator for the man )

Jupiter in the first house,although not your main sig,shows your conflicted feelings,or rather,that you had them while you were going retro- ( re-thinking-re-evaluating ) and now that Jupiter is in Pisces,it could indicate you feel better with yourself or are in a better place than you were,or show that u are fine by yourself and don't need him. Pisces is the state u had when posting the chart-dreamy,illusions,sensitive etc. whereas he is the opposite of that,kind of ( Virgo ). Your house of hopes and wishes is in Capricorn,adn 12th house ( unknown things ) are represented by Saturn,showing our secret desire for you two to be together-saturn in the 7th house ( his 1st ) means you love/care for him more than he does for you. He is Mercury,in his firs house,cold,feeling good about himself,and interesting he ( Sun ) is burning ou ( Saturn ) so he is actually not doing you good. Sun is Ill dignified in Libra,and as one woman ( who is an excellent horary expert ) old me,Sun ill dignified may represent someone who is too pridefull,arrogant,or acts in a way that would defeat it's purpose. here though,the Sun isn't his main significator,just the way he act( or could act ) if you told him the truth. oth of your signs are well dignified,which is very important ( youve seen all these Mars-Venus in libra/scorpio ? those relationships are harder since one side feels better about the situation,the other does not and may even be hostile,although it cares ) when you have two dignified planets ( saturn in libra-very exalted and mercury in virgo ) generally the two people both carry themselfes in dignity. However, Virgo and Libra do not get along. I wonder if things will change when Mercury enters Libra. Saturn ( affairs,sexual pleasures ) rule his 5th,and you are there,so I wonder if there is some sexual undertone from his part towards you.Your 5th house cancer moon is in a very good sign,although it just left Gemini ( mutable=seeing other people ) I wonder did you or he date others? Mercury would suit him too,since Mercury represents someone younger. You are the stronger though-but generally when someone is represented as saturn they are considered to be gloomy- people who don't express love very easily,who are more the reserved,colder types and Saturn usually represents a lot of work in whichever area it is-love,work,friends etc. So if he did feel something towards you,for now,maybe he would feel that it would be difficult to be with you ( you don;'t have to be the reason,could be the situation betwen you two wouldn't be easy if you two were together )

So,my answer is : No,I do not think you should confess now,he seems more into himself ( being into yourself doesn't have to mean someone egocentric and selfish by nature,it can very well mean someone who's just too bussy with himself ,or has things going on in his life so he can't really think about relationships,hence=focused on himself ) and not interested...for now.

maybe things will be better when he will be in your sign ( although it still wouldn't be perfect since Saturn is coming from a place of Mercury's fall,so it could mean although u are the fonder,he could somehow idealize you. ) Neptune in your 1st house- shows your illusions or dreams about him,maybe you are secretly hoping or thinking when you tell him he will feel the same way,but you already know the answer,that,for now,he won't ( late asc degree )

don't loose faith. horary is just a snapshot of 3 months. maybe things will look up later

[dr. farr]

My strong "yes" on this advice-request horary is based almost exclusively upon my extended understanding (or,if you will, belief) concerning the nature of cazimi: when both significators of querent and quesited are involved in this state (cazimi) it overcomes (for me) ANY and all other testimonies involved in the given chart. Here, though, I shall also mention that Mercury-significator of the 5th house (romance, love)- is posited in its domicile and chases the saturn-cazimi-sun significators of querent and quesited, which Mercury state and motion constitutes further + testimony (according to the tradition I follow)

...one of these days I'll post a thread on the ancient, alchemically-related doctrine about the cazimi state.

[Arijana]

Someone else sort of implied this above, so I wanted to query it, since I'm trying to learn horary. "Detriment" would indicate not weakness here, but a sort of subjection to?


Yes,I believe detriment is exactly like feeling the weaker or ''under someone's spell'' yet you don't really like it. Weakness meaning you don't feel entirely in control of the situation and for some reason you don't like the fact you like this peson ( I myself in a horary I casted regarding one guy am the Sun ;p and it i'ts kind of '' I care for you but I don't really like that you are my weakness'' or something along those lines ) . whereas not being in detriment means you like the person but aremore in control with your emotions.


I think if he were "harmful" to me it would be more at an EMOTIONAL level than a career level, or such. I've been through a divorce, and I really don't need ANOTHER guy I really like telling me, "Oh, hey, you're really nice, but yeah, I don't find you attractive," or (worse), "You're not worth the struggle." I already dealt with that. So he could "burn" me emotionally more than socially, I think.

This guy is SO not into "drama" of any sort. He runs from it. That's actually one of the things that attracts me to him; he's stable -- sometimes almost TOO "unattached," in fact. I think in the beginning of a relationship that's a problem; it's a better "long term" virtue. It's hard to read whether he cares at all or wouldn't blink if I disappeared from his life entirely (but then, again, if he doesn't hear from me, I get a phone call ..."What's up?"). He hates drama but is the king of "mixed signals." :-)

This is useful for me,reading from your point of view,since like I said,I am the Sun in the horary I casted and forgive me for blabbing about myself in your topic,I do that since I think it's helpful info as is the helpful info what I'm reading as your point of view. As for the no drama rule,I kind of expected him as Sun to see you as that. Saturn is serious,calm,colected,cool,and sun is lively,energy,passion,so I would rather say ( for him as Sun ) it could be the other way around,he could be drawn to your stability,to the security that you create and just the feeling of '' if I were to be with this person I could have some safe place ,a relationship where I feel calm,at peace'' when I guess the irony of this combination is,Saturn is bringing a little turmoil or issues ( not nececarilly bad ones,just general problems ) to SUn,so,this might be the ''hoping for a smooth sale''. I believe that if you want something,hard work pays off,and if he has feelings for you,which he has,he will surely see you as ''worth it''. Giving up and walking away is just an excuse for not wanting it. Whereas,you as Saturn might feel he is..breezy in a way,not in a superficial way but that he is someone who won't cause any distress ( no emotional battles,struggles,hate-love situations etc. ) just someone who could bring you....well,joy. From my experience I can tell you as a Sun and I am sure not out to cause him problems..I care for him and would never create drama or anything bad around him,and I believe he is honest and fair to not to that to me as well..I just don't want to be the ''evil witch'' with him ( and mind you,I have Lilith and Pluto in scorpio in my first house both on my ascendant scorpio,and currently have a transit scorpio Mars,Venus,and Moon in my first house lol,so these months I am as scorpio as you can get and CAN be a witch) but with him,I don't know...I just wanna please,I'm kind of like a kitten lol ( Sex kitten too ;p ). as for an emotional level,I understand that,and its' reasonable you may feel his passion could be a bit too much for you now and want to take things slower perhaps,and the Sun would maybe like it to suddenly resolve into something big. I believe true things take time.

I suspect it's less outright fear for him than "too many complication." In fact, I'm SURE he'd say that. But whether it's "too many complications and you're not worth it" or it's "too many complications that I really don't think can be resolved" is the sticking point. That's really what it all balances on. If it's the former, I'm not inclined to make a try only to be told, "What? Are you crazy? Maybe if you didn't have X, Y, and Z, I might consider it, but I'm not THAT into you, babe." There's nowhere to go with that. With the latter ... it's something we could discuss. He might not realize *I'd* be willing to work out some sort of compromise.

I find this endearing too. For me,if he says something like that ( and I understand your fear ) he is just not worth it ( I know I am over simplyfing things now and that it is easy to say though ). but if you don't tru,youll never know,and you will have to live with '' what if...'' However I see where you are coming from,and this for you and him has a ''caution'' sign to it,and as I said before,I believe both are esting the waters and out-weighing things before jumping in Saturn because he has scars from his past and reasons to take precaution ( we Sun people are younger and not thinking ahead really ;p ) ,and is afraid,just as you rightly put it,he will get emotionally burned..but I do believe the combustion is in fact the fear of the Sun being projected on Saturn. I think the relationship could turn out ok,but Sun is afraid of many things and maybe has some irrational fears about saturn or thinks things that have no basis in reality and that is what is combusting saturn. But Saturn being so catious makes the Sunthink that he/she doesn't want it,and by keeping your heart to your sleeve the Sun person thinks he/she isn't interested,and pretends that they aren't interested so they wouldnt get their pride hurt,because they see Saturn as maybe cold in the love department,and they think ''well,if I tell him/her than if they say no,I'll just end up looking like a fool '' . For instance,my example is similar to what you are telling,and again,I will tell you so you could compare yourself with my saturn guy and see the similarities.


It's not going to be *easy*, no question. But is is worth the trouble? That's the question. I think it might be. I'm not at all sure he thinks so. I fear the Combust Sun might be indicating the potential to just burn up poor, cautious Saturn here. ;>



Ha, no, although I sure wouldn't mind some of that! (He's a sexy guy.) :-) But it's really his MIND (and soul) that I've fallen for.

and sun is kind of drawn to your maturity I'd guess.

I think that is partly true. He sees me as smooth sailing in some ways, but incredibly complex in others, largely because I'm NOT some 20-something girl with few life entanglements. I have a kid, a house, a career, cats (he's allergic to), etc. Is that mergable with HIS house, career ambitions, dog and lack of kids?



No, I want more, but I suspect he might be more *impatient*. I'd actually be content to have a long-term relationship but separate residences for a while. I see that as a viable option ... especially for two people used to living on their own, their own mortgages, and with external commitments that may not mesh. But I think he's still in the stage of thinking about a girlfriend/partner/eventual wife who doesn't HAVE those things and could move in with him and set up house. I have my OWN house. I don't see a need to move quickly, and I'm not sure he's used to thinking of a partner like that. All his previous girlfriends have been younger (sometimes notably so) with few attachments ... but they frustrated him FOR those reasons. They weren't mature enough.



He's a 37-year-old man who still thinks like he's 27, at least in terms of dating. Once you're married (and divorced) you start to thing "in contingencies..." This person seems to be a good much, but they come with A, B and F attached ... and can I live with those clauses? He's still thinking in terms of "traditional" (first) relationships although he's outside the "traditional" age.

as for living with the clauses,like I said,if he doesn't try he will have to live with ''what if's ''..who knows,maybe your relationship can start off slow and later take on a whole other different form. it isn't said in vain that true love takes time,and indeed it does. not wanting to rush things is also a sign ( a very strong one I might add ) that you ( and he ) both care. if he didn't cae ( or vice versa ) that much then you both would have had a quick affair or whatnot and it would be over,but the fact that you are so carefull with each other and both of your feelings is because you BOTH see each other as a long term perspectve. I also see Saturn in my horary as someone I would really like to be my boyfriend,and that's the main reason I am so careful with him,and taking it slowly,because he means to me,and if I do go into a relationship with him,i would never want to rush it for the life of me.



Now,this is what I wanted to elaborate on,and to tell you how my Saturn is acting ( it's like we are comparing pets lol ) so you could see. My story isn't very different than my friends ( the irony ) with the exception that he is my gym trainer,he is 27 and I am 20,so I'm the younger and less experienced than he is. He is,a very,very good looking guy,very respected in the sports circle,very sucssefull in what he does, everybody who's anybody from the body builders to the sportist's know him,they respect him a lot,he is regarded as a mentor and me...I'm different in a sense that I lack that experience in sports and that..prestige and reputation and high respect in his field that he has. The status thing you said kind of gave me insight into how he might think,since,it's true, he might think '' does she want me like every other girl wanted me,because of my looks and how I am,to be seen with me? '' when the irony is,his looks only come second...to the real reasons I feel him and like him. Now,my fears ( as the combusting Sun are the following )

a) that he turns me down ( don't think he would but still ) and that I end up looking in the eyes of his friends and people who go there as just another one who has the hots for him ( most likely all the girls that go to that gym have a thing for him )
b) if we were together,there is the issue of how I would behave in a gym,similar to your '' how would I grade her'' example, he might think '' well,because she is with me maybe she thinks she can just treat the gym as her personal home and do what she wants because I am her boyfriend ''
c) I'm afraid that he only wants me for sex,and that when he is done with me we will just end it,and of course rumors will start to spread that he had sex with me,and I will end up looking like ''just another one of his many'' and I feel I will loose respect from my male friends there,not to mention the fact I'd have to see him everyday. I guess the main fear in the c) part is that I fear he only wants sex,and I don't want to be used just for that,but then again,Saturn is EXALTED,which speaks against that-saturn isn't the type to just ***** and ditch,he is honorable here,so that confuses me ( and gives me hope ) thanks why I asked you would you use your Sun only for sex ;p
d) he has...a lot of girls around him. I am a very pretty girl but ( I cant believe I'm saying this,yet maybe this is the Sun in detriment example=temporary lack of confidence ) I feel like I...I don't know,like I can't measure up to him. he has girls around him,throwing themselfes at him that always look tip-top flawless ,from the hair to makeup to clothes to jewelry everything no matter what occasion and they look flawless...I try to do that do ( not because of him or them,I am that way,I like beauty and everything related to it so I like to look good in every occasion I can,not a shallow vanity thing) but still I feel...jealous.

But,on the positive...I am gifted in acting ,then signing,very good at my dancing,music,movement,anything creative,and he is interested in music/video production,and he lacks that,anything artistic and creative is my domain rather than his....so I hold my own here. the main issue is though,if I were to be with him,I would most likely gain ''status'' ( '' she is HIS girlfriend ? '' you get the idea....) and the respect and I don't want it like that,I like him for him,without any bulls.h.it ''status'' attached to it...I just want to make him happy,and be with him,hold him, and enjoy things with him,without worrying about these things that people created around him.

and lemme tell you what he is doing ( so you can do it to your Sun guy ) he is smilling much more,lookin in my eyes,winking,being nice all of a sudden,more so than usual,and I am starting to come out of my shell..this way he is not directly approaching me but in a way that I like,and I am being more approachable,I grab his hood playfully and touch him,talk to him,want to make him smile...he is just....awww.

[Kenoshamaensa]

I'm glad things seem to be improving! As that was a few weeks back, perhaps they've gone further?

Alas, anything with my Sun fellow is in hibernation, I think, and likely to remain so. The friendship remains, but that was always there. He was actually considering going out with somebody else (who was pursuing him), although that fell through. I'd also been asked out, and *that* fell through.

I'm not sure if I have much further insight as the Saturn person except to underscore what I mentioned above about not being particularly drawn to him to use for sex although I do find him attractive. Then again, I'll also add that women tend (on average) to be less inclined to that. And while he does have a Scorpio Rising, and a Scorp Mercury (on the ASC), I don't think he has nearly as much Plutonic energy as your chart shows. And a lot of the Plutonic energy between us seems to be intellectual with his Scorp Mercury and my Virgo Mercury conj. Pluto. (Also, our synastry doesn't show much sexual fire, although it does suggest a potentially high level of emotional compatibility and sexual compatibility, IF anything ever got off the ground -- "if" being the key word there. Ha.)

Anyway, I think I'm just not getting enough evidence on his part of genuine interest beyond, "Hey, I really like you as a friend, find you wise, and think you're smart and a neat person to talk to." If anything, he seems to have pulled back a bit in contacting me, although how much of that owes to serious time constraints/business (the man works 60 hours a week ... no really), and how much to increasing disinterest, is hard to say. He's told me multiple times that when things get busy for him, he sorta drops off the face of the earth in terms of contacting people or doing things. But just because I'm not hearing from him doesn't mean he's not doing things with other people. He's got a lot of friends, and with extremely limited time, can't give it all to one person or he'd never get to see anybody ELSE. But that also means/suggests that I'm not as high on his list of priorities as he is on mine. ;>