Technical question, Who is stronger?

[Niplan]

ok, we have,

Saturn at 25'35, sun at 25'41, mars at 26'04..

Now, Besigement would put the sun in a bad position..

However, Combustion, Puts Saturn and mars in a bad position..

But with cazimi since saturn is within 17minutes of the sun, thereby elivating it to a benific position..

Who is the stronger planet/luminary?

[al Nablusi]

The Sun is detrimented in Aquarius, so it is weakened.
Mars is peregrine, ditto. Mars cannot 'resist' combustion - the Sun overcomes it.
Saturn has dignity by domicile and triplicity, and is in cazimi.

To me, the strongest planet is Saturn. But the native will also be influenced by the Sun and Mars. In any case, I would consider the stellium difficult to handle.

May I ask what is the job of this person? I've noticed he/she has algol in the sixth-seventh, square the Saturn-Mars-Sun stellium. With fixed stars, normally I only consider conjunctions, but this aspect has caught my attention.

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

Saturn's stronger. In domicile and Cazimi, even if he is out of sect.

[gaer]

I have the same question. I was curious. It appears that Chris Farley was born on the same day.

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

Saturn's not in Triplicity, it's a night chart.

[Frank]

Originally Posted by Joseph Ledzion

Usually Mars is out of bounds in the charts of murderers, for example.

Joseph

I just wanted to check on this. I used about birth data for about 500 criminals convicted of homocide, 500 homocide victims, and more than 2000 astrologers from AstroDatabank.

Mars Out of Bounds:

Criminal Homocide -15.5 %
Homocide Victims -15.9%
Astrologers - 17.9%

[Niplan]

this is the chart of a man who sits across from me at work.

very pessimistic, but we did have a constructive intellectual debate yesterday about philosophy and divinity.

"Saturn's not in Triplicity, it's a night chart."
Triplicity rulers still have dignity even if they are out of sect.

thanks joseph!

I forgot to mention the almuten scores on the chart don't include cazimi, or combustion.. i can't figure out how to add those as considerations.

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

"Saturn's not in Triplicity, it's a night chart."
Triplicity rulers still have dignity even if they are out of sect.

False. That's why we have the distinction of "Triplicity ruler by day" and "Triplicity ruler by night". They pass it along when the sun changes hemispheres.

Also, how are you all defining almuten? As the most dignified planet? That's the Lord of Geniture, and yes it probably would end up being Saturn (I don't feel like doing the counting). The almuten of the chart would be Jupiter who has domicile, triplicity, and term of the ascending degree.

[Frank]

Originally Posted by Frank

I just wanted to check on this. I used about birth data for about 500 criminals convicted of homocide, 500 homocide victims, and more than 2000 astrologers from AstroDatabank.

Mars Out of Bounds:

Criminal Homocide -15.5 %
Homocide Victims -15.9%
Astrologers - 17.9%

OK, on the way home tonight I created a database of 10,000 charts spaced equally out over 200 years (1809-2009) and Mars looks to be Out of Bounds about 16.5 percent of the time.

So it seems that Homocide criminals and victims have slightly less than the norm of Mars OoB cases, while astrologers have slightly more.

None of the deviations are really statistically significant however - just about what is expected.

[gaer]

Originally Posted by dhundhun

Thanks Gaer. When he died, his biography was TV broadcast as title.

Chris Farley: Reckless Laughter - Biography

I wanted to write "Reckless Bold", which seemed harsh word and then I wrote "thoughtlessly bold". Reckless and thoughtless are synonyms.

I looked very briefly at the chart shown in this thread, which of course was much like Farley's, or would have been. Of course time of birth would have rotated everything, and the Moon would have been at a different degree.

[Frank]

Originally Posted by dhundhun

Cazimi is a planet within 17 minutes of arc of the Sun's ecliptic position. Latitude wise, saturn in this case is more than one degree away.

Sun's angular dia from earth varies between 31.6' – 32.7'. I think, technically, a planet is called Cazimi, when plant occults sun or sun occults planet (a margin of 17'). Saturn's angular dia varies from earth and it is between 15″ – 20″.

Going by this theory, Saturn is not cazimi. It is more than 1 degree away in latitude.

Taking max degrees: it is 16.3' 30" (Sun's radius) + 10" (Saturn's radius) + 17' (cazimi margin) = 33.3' 40" to be precise. Loosly speaking a planet is cazimi, when it in in half degree of Sun (longitude and latitude both are needed to calculate).

Cazimi is considered only in Longitude, not Declination.

From Lilly's "Christian Astrology"

"[CAZIMI, OR IN THE HEART OF THE SUN.] A Planet is in the heart of the Sun, or in Cazimi, when he is not removed from him 17 min. or is within 17 min. forward or backward, as Sun in 15.30 Taurus, Mercury 15.25. of Taurus: here Mercury is in Cazimi"

No mention of Declination. Do you have a source that states Cazimi must be in Declination also?

What you are speaking of is a "Transit of the Sun" (when Venus or Mercury are involved in front of the Sun) or an "Occultation" (if a planet is behind the Sun) - both very rare occurences - or a Solar Eclipse if the Moon is involved. Cazimi wouldn't have been noted as an Accidental Dignity if is were as rare as a "Transit of the Sun" or an Occultation - would it?

[Frank]

Yes, it's an arc. Minutes of Arc in Longitude. Even the examples of Mercury and Venus given in the article you link, the Cazimis are only in Longitude, not Declination.

I know, because I watch them all the time. They work great for fortifying planets in electional work when one can't avoid the debility of Combustion otherwise.

Since you stick to Cazimi using Declination in addition to Longitude, do you also take into account Declination when considering Combustion and Under the Beams?

[Frank]

Also, the designation "minutes of arc" is used merely to avoid confusion with "minutes of time." One doesn't get that confusion when speaking of degrees.

Perhaps that is what your misconception is founded upon?

[Frank]

Originally Posted by dhundhun

Please remove word misconception from you remarks. I appreciate.

Respectfully, I believe it to be a misconception on your part - it is not intended as an insult or a personal attack. I'll let the word stand as is because it's the word I meant.

If you are so adamant about your interpretation, please direct me toward a source that supports your assertion that Cazimi needs to consider Declination.

Thank you.

[katydid]

It is interesting to figure out which one is 'stronger' using the various techniques and methods described here, but in my humble opinion, it is not mandatory. This guy, has the Sun sandwiched in between 2 powerful forces, much like being in the vice of 2 opposing forces. It is important to take note of the fact that Saturn is stronger by dignity/almuten, but even then , mars and the sun are still making themselves known. This man probably has some strong Aquarian urges, which he would like to act upon, in writing or speaking or teaching, but he may feel blocked from doing so. But just because Saturn is stronger overall, it does not mean it will ALWAYS be a negative influence, but it may mean that he does not take his progressive reforms to the people until he is entirely certain they are correct and unassailable.
Also, the triple conjunction has only one major aspect, a sextile to the Sag ascendent. Thus the 2 fire planets may win out in the end with the urging of the ascendent to make his ideas and beliefs known.

[Frank]

Originally Posted by dhundhun

For conjuction strength, yes. Not for any other aspects.

So you use Declination in addition to Longitude when figuring Combustion? So how are you converting the numbers? What number are you using and how are you figuring the true body aspect?