Family and Group Karma

[Shining Ray]

I was looking at the Jigsaw program the other day, and I noticed a report on there analysing family karma. My family - myself partner and child, scored high in Virgo and Sagittarius. However she did use midpoints because we don't have a lot of Sagittarian planets. Particular aspects were highlighted for family karma, and so forth. I was the Saturnian in the family "karma drama". Obviously negative or positive energy towards one another can be seen in synastry. How do you read family charts as a whole system? Do you think there is a powerful element, aspect, issue that a family unit works through together? For example I noticed in my family, (before the one I created with my partner) Neptune in 4th is powerful, and this describes home, family, father. Do particular family members take on roles to help us all learn. I watched an episode on Dr Phil where the whole family used one member as a scapegoat for all of the family troubles. How would this been seen astrologically? What's your own take on Family or group karma. Do synastry conflicts show issues to be resolved between the family members, and can they be worked through? I watched the film My Sister's Keeper the other day, do you think from a karmic perspective the whole family has to work through deeper issues, or can they all teach one another lessons in such difficult times?

Surfing the net I found the following views upon this subject:

Family Karma

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Family Karmic Inheritance

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[JayM]

Our current family could be a manifestation of the karma of our previus lives, for example if we damaged the self-esteem on someone in our previus life then that could manifest in this life as uncaring parents for ourselves. The thing to remember is that I do not belive that our past lives are linked to the ancestry of our current incarnation, what I mean is that our past lives could have been in different cultures.

I do not really agree with the group karma inheratence because like I said our previus lives can be in different cultures, for example if your a french person in this life you could have been a chinese person in a previus life.

[waybread]

Shining Ray, I do think astrological signatures are passed down through generations. Liz Greene and Erin Sullivan are two astrologers who have traced charts of multiple generations.

I have a lot of interest in genealogy/family history, and have quite a few birth records to look at. I haven't had time yet to analyse them all, but just looking at 3 generations [parents, self/siblings, children] I have found strong sun-Pluto contacts. I also looked at 7 generations along my maternal line. Most of the women had moon-Mercury contacts, even allowing for my having no birth times for ancestors before my mother.

So it could be that some family destiny is being worked through the generations. The kicker will be to interpret what it means.

[estrella]

I've just started examining this issue using the charts of my own family. What I already have found is incredible and is totally blowing me away. Just more proof of astrology's value.
My parents are very controlling, authoritarian, rigid people. Their personalities made for an unpleasant home situation for me and my older brother and sister.
Interestingly, me, my much older bro and sis all have Venus in Aries within a range of a few degrees. Also, all of our 4/10 axis are very similar.

Me:
My father's Saturn is right on my Ascendant, and his Chiron is on my Venus. Also, my mother's Saturn is right on top of my Venus-and my Venus is on her Saturn. There was never a free flowing of love between us.
I have the heaviest Saturn contacts with them, and my relationship with our parents is far worse than my bro's and sis' relationship with them.

Brother:
My mother's Saturn is also right on top of my brother's Venus. Dad's Sun is right on top of bro's Saturn. Also, Dad's Chiron is on bro's Venus.

Sister:
Dad's Chiron is on her Venus as well. Also, his Node is conjunct her Node and her Pluto in the 4th. Mother's Saturn is of course on her Venus as well.

I'm really amazed at what I've found so far and will be digging deeper. All of this Saturn, Chiron, and Venus energy really represents the situation-amazing.

[Shining Ray]

I never saw these replies, and thought the post was ignored. I shall read your replies now - big smile . I read an interesting book today on a similar theme.

[Shining Ray]

Originally Posted by estrella

I've just started examining this issue using the charts of my own family. What I already have found is incredible and is totally blowing me away. Just more proof of astrology's value.
My parents are very controlling, authoritarian, rigid people. Their personalities made for an unpleasant home situation for me and my older brother and sister.
Interestingly, me, my much older bro and sis all have Venus in Aries within a range of a few degrees. Also, all of our 4/10 axis are very similar.

Wow what a similarity, you all share similar aspects. It does make you think that perhaps you are working on a family issue together.

Me:
My father's Saturn is right on my Ascendant, and his Chiron is on my Venus. Also, my mother's Saturn is right on top of my Venus-and my Venus is on her Saturn. There was never a free flowing of love between us.
I have the heaviest Saturn contacts with them, and my relationship with our parents is far worse than my bro's and sis' relationship with them.

Brother:
My mother's Saturn is also right on top of my brother's Venus. Dad's Sun is right on top of bro's Saturn. Also, Dad's Chiron is on bro's Venus.

Sister:
Dad's Chiron is on her Venus as well. Also, his Node is conjunct her Node and her Pluto in the 4th. Mother's Saturn is of course on her Venus as well.

You have worked through the charts , and you did a good job of spotting the themes. Your points on Saturn are very interesting. My mother's Saturn squares my Saturn on my Asc. And she was the disciplinarian. You had two parents Saturn's. You definitely had Saturnian family karma. I worry about my synastry with my own child, and I have never looked at it too deeply, but I should analyse what energy is between us, and this can enable me to be more conscious and aware of the issues that could present themselves in the future.

I'm really amazed at what I've found so far and will be digging deeper. All of this Saturn, Chiron, and Venus energy really represents the situation-amazing.

It really is interesting the patterns you have found in the family, and you have the tool of astrology to help shed light on these family issues of authority and control.

[estrella]

Originally Posted by Shining Ray

I worry about my synastry with my own child, and I have never looked at it too deeply, but I should analyse what energy is between us, and this can enable me to be more conscious and aware of the issues that could present themselves in the future.

I think you'll be fine. You have the tools to be a far more enlightened parent than mine were. So even if you have Saturnian energy with your child you could consciously choose to manifest it more positively with guidance, reasonable limitations, and constructive teaching.

Originally Posted by Shining Ray

It really is interesting the patterns you have found in the family, and you have the tool of astrology to help shed light on these family issues of authority and control.

Yeah. I think I'm finally ready to really delve into this. I've been doing astrology for many years and have done family analysis for others-I just wanted to put these things behind me and never look at them again, so I didn't do my own family synastry. But now I see this as an excellent opportunity for some astrological research, and for some healing and self discovery too.

[Shining Ray]

Originally Posted by waybread

Shining Ray, I do think astrological signatures are passed down through generations. Liz Greene and Erin Sullivan are two astrologers who have traced charts of multiple generations.

I believe it too, I have noticed in Liz Greene's astrological readings, she emphasises that you take on the task of fulfilling the parents challenges in life. In her book Astrology of Fate she named Pluto and Greek mythologies where the sins of the mothers and fathers, in past generations are revisited on the children. She particularly pointed out Pluto in the 4th house. My son has this placement conjunct his 4th house cusp and square his Sun-Mercury in 1st/12th house.

I have a lot of interest in genealogy/family history, and have quite a few birth records to look at. I haven't had time yet to analyse them all, but just looking at 3 generations [parents, self/siblings, children] I have found strong sun-Pluto contacts. I also looked at 7 generations along my maternal line. Most of the women had moon-Mercury contacts, even allowing for my having no birth times for ancestors before my mother.

Yes, If an aspect is repeated in the family line it can be important that one individual tries to heal the past. the cycle of abuse is an example of something unresolved which can get passed through the family line, until it is finally resolved (Pluto may be a factor here). Alcoholism or escapism, illness, suffering, martyrdom, schizophrenia, Alzheimer's disease could come down the line through Neptune. It is fascinating and also unnerving to see what is carried down through the family. My mothers side of the family are the "martyrs" a little crazy (not like me before you say it ). I have Moon conjunct Mercury square Neptune in 4th and trines to Uranus. However, what is interesting is that my father's line is ruled by my Sun and is opposed to Saturn these are the repressed, depressive, and more inhibited side of my father's family. Although my siblings aspects will tell a different story. The I.C -M.C axis needs to be examined.

So it could be that some family destiny is being worked through the generations. The kicker will be to interpret what it means.

I do believe we work on all the family karma drama, even if we never started it, so to speak. Rhyme and reason.

[Shining Ray]

Originally Posted by JayM

Our current family could be a manifestation of the karma of our previus lives, for example if we damaged the self-esteem on someone in our previus life then that could manifest in this life as uncaring parents for ourselves. The thing to remember is that I do not belive that our past lives are linked to the ancestry of our current incarnation, what I mean is that our past lives could have been in different cultures.

I read the 12th house or the 8th house deals with family karma, I suppose if you did damage someone else's self-esteem, you could be born to uncaring parents. There could be a variety of reasons of why we choose the lives we do. Perhaps certain environments help in our development. Our past life could be from a very different culture.

I do not really agree with the group karma inheratence because like I said our previus lives can be in different cultures, for example if your a french person in this life you could have been a chinese person in a previus life.

Group karma can still be Karma, I read a few books which said often group karma can involve family where we all changed roles, mother-father-child. This is all non-fact and only ideas to play with. I am not saying any of it is the truth.

[Claire19]

Originally Posted by Shining Ray

I read the 12th house or the 8th house deals with family karma, I suppose if you did damage someone else's self-esteem, you could be born to uncaring parents. There could be a variety of reasons of why we choose the lives we do. Perhaps certain environments help in our development. Our past life could be from a very different culture.



Group karma can still be Karma, I read a few books which said often group karma can involve family where we all changed roles, mother-father-child. This is all non-fact and only ideas to play with. I am not saying any of it is the truth.

In the ordinary way we cant prove it perhaps. But gut feeling and often indications in the birth charts will back it up... You need to be able to interpret the signs.....I agree that we do change roles for sure.

[Claire19]

Originally Posted by JayM

Our current family could be a manifestation of the karma of our previus lives, for example if we damaged the self-esteem on someone in our previus life then that could manifest in this life as uncaring parents for ourselves. The thing to remember is that I do not belive that our past lives are linked to the ancestry of our current incarnation, what I mean is that our past lives could have been in different cultures.

I do not really agree with the group karma inheratence because like I said our previus lives can be in different cultures, for example if your a french person in this life you could have been a chinese person in a previus life.

I do agree with group karma and family karma. We come back to work out the issues that have been created in the past associations and to reap the negative and also the positive to balance the cosmic ledger and move off the wheel of reincarnation....We could have had different relationships and different gender and in different cultures. Why not?
Saturn and the Moon in particular in the chart will give clues.. I feel that I was my mother's sister in the past and my sister was my mother also.. This shows quite clearly in the charts when I have analysed the issue.

[midnight sun]

[QUOTE=Claire19;337638 I feel that I was my mother's sister in the past and my sister was my mother also.. This shows quite clearly in the charts when I have analysed the issue.[/QUOTE]

This is not family karma. Family karma sees us a whole with our ancestors. If my grandma lived very unhappy marriage for example, and she couldn't solve her emotions, I could be borned with her unsolved emotions and choose an unhappy marriage. Family karma is about cycles waiting to be solved from family past. Our soul is representative in this time for solving the past traumas of ancestors. But in the past you're not a relative of an ancestor. Now you're carrying many different emotions from many different ancestors.
I'm healing family karma for the last year and learned lots of incidents which the emotions I'm carrying belong to. So emotions are carried to the future not just one person's fate. For example if there was a murder in the family, you could carry both sufferer and guilt feelings and this would cause a mental disorder.

Bert Hellinger is the most popular psychotherapist works with family karma.

[Neptune Rising]

I know it sounds odd, but I've often wondered if there is some element of my grandma in me, maybe through reincarnation. She died a few years before I was born, my mum's mum. My mum and I are psychically linked anyway, Pisces Moon and Jupiter me - Pisces Sun and south node her. Jupiter/south node conjuncts both ways, Moon/Pluto aspects both ways.

My mums mum was en early degree Sagittarius, about 9 degrees Sag, conjunct my 12th/1st house cusp north node/Neptune. Aries rules my IC, Mars is in Sag, my roots from that side of the family are from abroad. I wonder this because, whenever I go for card readings, to spiritualist churches, to anyone who has any occult knowledge, they always seem to be able to contact my mum's mum. I'll never know this, at least not while I'm living, but curious to ponder on. Maybe she is just watching over me, very closely, God bless her.

[MJ82]

I find this a very interesting topic. I recently discovered that my grandmother, whom I'm very close to, also has an 8th house stellium like me, with her moon there. In fact my entire family on my mother's side is very plutonian and neptunian. I've read that the 8th house can be about inheritances of all kinds through the maternal line, so this makes sense to me.

Here is a fascinating article about the water houses and ancestral legacies that really resonated with me (this part is on the 8th, and is 1 of 3 articles): http://www.themetaarts.com/archives/...sullivan1.html

I've often wondered if my great aunt (my grandmother's sister: she died of breast cancer young as did their other sister) had 8th house planets and if I am working through some of her issues in my life - which of course are MY issues in this lifetime, but it's a beguiling thought. I've always felt very close to her spiritually even though I never had the chance to know her.