Sun Sign Not So Important As Once Thought

[Lulu-B]

I read recently in ancient astrology that a person's Sun sign representec the father at the time of birth, not so much the actual character of the person being born. The ascendant is apparently the true character of the individual.
My Sun is in Sag exact conj to Neptune in 10th. My father is a flaky artist who abandoned (Neptune and 10th house) his responsibility and who liked to "spread his seed (like Zeus or Jupiter)" who has problems with his liver because of a lifetime of excess (not unlike myself in some ways though).
So, what I'm saying is this fits. Anyone else find that their Sun is a very good representation of their father?
I just thought it was neat because you often hear of ascendant as more of a first impression or mask, but I find myself much more ascendant than Sun.

[katydid]

I have always heard of the Sun being a good description of one's father. My Sun is in early Scorpio, conjunct Saturn/Neptune in Libra. My father was a very left wing civil rights attorney who loved pot and LSD all of his life.
He was divorced from my mom, but always took responsibility for us kids anyway, although in his own unique style.

[JayM]

If some planets have alot of aspects to them then their energy can probably overshadow the sun sign. With me my mars or uranus could be doing that. Mars conj pluto for example has alot of ego in that energy so someone could get caught up with trying to express and act of that instead of his/her sun sign energy.

[JayM]

My sun in cap in the 11th is based on my saturn in scorp in the 9th which has hard aspects to my moon and venus. My parents were divorced when I was young and my dad remarried to someone who was nasty to my brother and me.

Like what I was saying before my mars in pisces in the first trines my pluto, conj my venus square my uranus and sextiles my sun and neptune. My Uranus is my AC ruler in the 10th and conj my mercury and inconj my moon.

[astrologer50]

When a sun sign is conjunct a heavyweight planet from Saturn onwards, ie: Uranus, Neptune and Pluto, that sun person automatically becomes and honorary Saturian, Uranian, Neptunian and Plutonian cos the contact with very strong

my father had pisces sun conj uranus and was espec in later life bit akward and eccentric, but he also had mercury conj uranus was maths genius and taught and an engineer. I have the Sun square uranus aspect, and I always think I'm more like my dad and mum. Plus Aquaris is my Asc and Uranus is also on my sun/moon midpoint, so it clearly suggests a more uranian personality.....

Although mum and I have exact quincunxed sun signs, so there wasn't much chance of us understanding each other anyway, dad was always the bridge but when he died the bridge died as well......

[waybread]

The idea that the sun represents one's core identity is fairly recent in astrology's long history. I think this is because prior to the 19th century few people had the opportunity to express their identities as some kind of self-actualization in any meaningful way. But within the traditional family,the father most had the capacity to do what he wanted and to have his wife and children obey him. Within a nation, the king was an autonomous individual. So the sun also indicates the king or royalty in certain kinds of charts. The closest the horoscope came to showing a unique individual was in the ascendant and its ruler or any planet conjunct the ASC.

I once found in the public library an early 20th century astrology book published in England that said the sun in a woman's chart indicated her father or the kind of husband she hoped to attract. So feminism has affected astrology!

[katydid]

Although mum and I have exact quincunxed sun signs, so there wasn't much chance of us understanding each other anyway, dad was always the bridge but when he died the bridge died as well......

My daughter and I have an exact quincunx between our Suns as well.
[ 1 Gemini/1 Scorpio]
It can be very frustrating for us both sometimes because we see the world so differently for the most part.
She is always telling me to 'chill' and I am always telling her to take things more seriously. Right now, she has her drivers permit and when she drives, I almost have a heart attack or 2.
However, thank my lucky stars, we have 'Venus EXACTLY conjunct Asc' both ways. Her Venus is conjunct my Taurus Asc, and My Venus is conjunct her Sag asc. And we both have our Suns and asc's in opposite signs.
So therefore, we really like each other, even though we get frustrated trying to agree upon our goals and ambitions sometimes.

[gaer]

Originally Posted by SiderealSupastar

I read recently in ancient astrology that a person's Sun sign representec the father at the time of birth, not so much the actual character of the person being born. The ascendant is apparently the true character of the individual.

I was much more like my mother until later in life. My Libra sun sign does not show that. My Virgo AC is not what I think of as my true character.

I think you will get a better idea of connections to one parent or the other by comparing both charts. For instance, if the father's chart shows a person who is thoughtful, introverted, and artistic (just as examples), when those same characteristics are highlighted in the chart of a son or daughter, that would be what I would pay attention to.

[astrologer50]

Originally Posted by SiderealSupastar

I read recently in ancient astrology that a person's Sun sign representec the father at the time of birth, not so much the actual character of the person being born. The ascendant is apparently the true character of the individual.
My Sun is in Sag exact conj to Neptune in 10th. My father is a flaky artist who abandoned (Neptune and 10th house) his responsibility and who liked to "spread his seed (like Zeus or Jupiter)" who has problems with his liver because of a lifetime of excess (not unlike myself in some ways though).
So, what I'm saying is this fits. Anyone else find that their Sun is a very good representation of their father?
I just thought it was neat because you often hear of ascendant as more of a first impression or mask, but I find myself much more ascendant than Sun.

When a sun sign is conjunct a heavyweight planet from Saturn onwards, ie: Uranus, Neptune and Pluto, that sun person automatically becomes and honorary Saturian, Uranian, Neptunian and Plutonian cos the contact with very strong

Yes, the Neptune in 10th is typical of a 'disappearing parent' But is quite different from gizmo's sun in 12th house/pisces.

It is generally accepted that what a woman looks for in a relationship is her sun sign qualities and her mars (her sexual energies) by sign, house and aspect, plus any planets in 7th and where the house cups ruler is placed.

Gizmo,
First of all it is the12th house is of SOLITUDE. If you have several planets there, (especially the Sun, Moon, Venus, Jupiter or Neptune), you probably crave times alone and enjoy remote ­environments where you can commune with your inner world.

What emerges within you when you are alone? The Sun here indicates an inner warmth, vitality, a confidence in your inner resources. Apart from solitude and confinement, your twelfth house planets may suggest that you are oversensitive to public attention, and that you desire to operate behind the scenes, quietly expressing yourself and sustaining yourself without public acknowledgment.
The Sun here also suggests that your parents were not ­supportive of your ego development and did not help you to develop self‑confidence.

Additionally, Sun or Leo on the twelfth house, you may outwardly appear self‑effacing, but you may carry within yourself ­considerable egotism, narcissism, and maybe even touch of arrogance. For you, the bottom line may be the protection of your ego from outer forces which threaten your pride and self‑esteem

There hidden strengths and you may not be aware of them until, in a stress situation, you are forced to draw upon your deepest inner resources, your confidence in your inner wealth, your ability to ­revitalize yourself, your centredness, your potential for ­leadership.

[gimzo23]

Originally Posted by astrologer50

Gizmo,
First of all it is the12th house is of SOLITUDE. If you have several planets there, (especially the Sun, Moon, Venus, Jupiter or Neptune), you probably crave times alone and enjoy remote ­environments where you can commune with your inner world.

What emerges within you when you are alone? The Sun here indicates an inner warmth, vitality, a confidence in your inner resources. Apart from solitude and confinement, your twelfth house planets may suggest that you are oversensitive to public attention, and that you desire to operate behind the scenes, quietly expressing yourself and sustaining yourself without public acknowledgment.
The Sun here also suggests that your parents were not ­supportive of your ego development and did not help you to develop self‑confidence.

Additionally, Sun or Leo on the twelfth house, you may outwardly appear self‑effacing, but you may carry within yourself ­considerable egotism, narcissism, and maybe even touch of arrogance. For you, the bottom line may be the protection of your ego from outer forces which threaten your pride and self‑esteem

There hidden strengths and you may not be aware of them until, in a stress situation, you are forced to draw upon your deepest inner resources, your confidence in your inner wealth, your ability to ­revitalize yourself, your centredness, your potential for ­leadership.

Yes, absolutely. I'm pretty much the cookbook description of it or epitome of seclusion, operating behind the scenes and a craving for times alone, most preferrably in my home. I need contact to only very few selected people in my life really. If surrounded by people too long, or by being involved in longer discussions, there is usually a strong need for seclusion coming up suddenly and increasingly. It's like my mind gets overfed and my soul needs time on its own. When unemployed, I usually only go out if I have to go shopping, that's it. As an addition, with such a complete lack of earth in my chart, even from earth houses, everything that is connected with the real outer and material world is usually pretty arduous for me. And Saturn rising definitely doesn't help here. I think my chart is really made for being a house husband. There are many 12th house Suns though, that aren't nearly as strongly affected with the behind the scenes/home etc. thing, and as the Sun is the only planet in my 12th, I do think it doubles up with it being the Ascendant's ruler, plus the Moon connection with it as the ruler of the 12th and being near the IC (IC connection with Placidus/unequal house system). You made some good points at the end there, too. The hidden strength to draw upon. I need to make myself more aware of that. But like you said, it's probably only in specific situations that I gain more awareness of this. And yes, there is surely a certain amount of egotism and a little bit of narcissism existent, too. I would fool myself if I wouldn't agree. But I try to keep a good balance here. Arrogance I have never been called upon though. (Yeah I know, my rather stressfully aspected Leo Sun might imply that, with the only positive/easy aspect being a sextile with Mars....). But I guess the 12th house really gives me some perspective here about too much ego drive. But that's definitely some Leo energy existent there. With Saturn/Mercury in 1st, especially in youth, this sometimes made a strange and not very easy mix to handle with some complexes about parts of my looks and self-confidence/esteem problems back then. I would really like to apologize to SiderealSupastar at this point, though. I didn't intend to take over your thread with my chart like this. It just kind of developed that way. Maybe we should get back to the topic again.

[Lulu-B]

Gizmo, Siderealsupastar doesn't care (I've recently started speaking about myself to myself in the 3rd person, make sense?). I feel all of your hermit ways.
HAH! I just thought that I may as well be a Gremlin when it hit me your name is Gizmo, hahhaha! I hear everything you said. My South Node is in Pisces too, so it is like I am drowning in the sea of sadness sometimes with noone to help because noone understands, though they think they do, so I have learned to stay quiet about it all. With a 12th Sun Gizmo I think you should think more about an excess in humility becasue for me what appears to others to be pride is more an excess of humility in me. Like, I feel sorry for people who have to be with me when I am sad of fat. You leave that worrying about how much pride you have alone!!! That probably makes you feel overwhelmed. Try talking honestly to other people in your head during alone time. Infact, don't worry about if it is logical what you say either just let it come out. It's like therapy for yourself and they will never know if what you say to them. It opens up some gates to all kinds of stuff. What I realized was that I am way nicer and more tolerant of others behavior then my own! I am soooo mean to myself, I would NEVER treat anyone else like I treat myself!!!!!!!!!

[gimzo23]

Originally Posted by SiderealSupastar

Gizmo, Siderealsupastar doesn't care (I've recently started speaking about myself to myself in the 3rd person, make sense?). I feel all of your hermit ways.
HAH! I just thought that I may as well be a Gremlin when it hit me your name is Gizmo, hahhaha! I hear everything you said. My South Node is in Pisces too, so it is like I am drowning in the sea of sadness sometimes with noone to help because noone understands, though they think they do, so I have learned to stay quiet about it all. With a 12th Sun Gizmo I think you should think more about an excess in humility becasue for me what appears to others to be pride is more an excess of humility in me. Like, I feel sorry for people who have to be with me when I am sad of fat. You leave that worrying about how much pride you have alone!!! That probably makes you feel overwhelmed. Try talking honestly to other people in your head during alone time. Infact, don't worry about if it is logical what you say either just let it come out. It's like therapy for yourself and they will never know if what you say to them. It opens up some gates to all kinds of stuff. What I realized was that I am way nicer and more tolerant of others behavior then my own! I am soooo mean to myself, I would NEVER treat anyone else like I treat myself!!!!!!!!!

That's good. I'm glad to see it's not been a biggie for you that your thread got a little off course there. It's funny to see how often people mistake my nickname for gizmo. It's probably a brain thing, that the brain associates something that is read just quickly with something familiar or known, I guess. It's actually gimzo. No problem though, it doesn't have any connection with my real name anyway. I see in your thread-opening post that you can identify strongly with your ascendant as well. Is it only by sign, or do you have any planets in the 1st or conjunct ascendant as well? How do you perceive those, if there are any, in terms of your true character? Or any other close/strong aspects to the ascendant? And how do you perceive your ascendant ruler's house placement in comparance with your Sun's house placement? Is there a strong self-identification or realization through your character present by the themes of the ascendant ruler's house position?

[lilllybelle]

My sun is conjunct jupiter in gemini in the 10th. It also opposes neptune- the higher octave of venus, and I adore my father. I probally love him more than anyone on the face of the earth. Is that love reflected by my sun being conjunct jupiter, opposed to neptune and lifted high into the 10th house? You bet cha.
When I was younger I made a point of dating guys that didn't act anything like my father, but the guy that I am currently dating has a lot of the qualites that my father has- stable & chaotic at the same time, always getting into some new kind of trouble and fun in a earthy way.
I view my asc. and sun both as a mask and part of my surface personality. I don't think you start seeing the true me until you engage with my south node, mars and venus conjuction opposed by my moon and pluto.

[Lulu-B]

I see in your thread-opening post that you can identify strongly with your ascendant as well. Is it only by sign, or do you have any planets in the 1st or conjunct ascendant as well? How do you perceive those, if there are any, in terms of your true character? Or any other close/strong aspects to the ascendant? And how do you perceive your ascendant ruler's house placement in comparance with your Sun's house placement? Is there a strong self-identification or realization through your character present by the themes of the ascendant ruler's house position?[/QUOTE]


Here's my chart on the bottom of the page. My Asc is in Fixed Grand Square directly across by 2 min from Jupiter. Only first house stuff is a Asc conj Juno and a South Node (sometimes in the 2nd with other house systems). I read that first house South Node means I learned alot about how to build my own confidence and depend on myself. This life with 7th North Node I am suppose to show others how to build their's. I, like you I can tell from what you write, can accept my own faults, and even the ones that other people project on me (which may or may not be mine at all, hahaha, see there was that little pride thing you were looking for in yourself, only comes out when I am joking though, i am trying to check it because it gets me in trouble. Makes me wonder if that it was you do to express your pride).
I have alot of perfectionists around me who pound me with my faults, that is why I told you not to think about your pride "problem" think about the excessive humility you have. I saw it when you typed about your pride and how you would work on it. It was like me talking to all of the perfectionists around me and saying "I know I have that problem, I will work on it." I mean it too, as you did. You probably look for your part in whatever went wrong so that you can prevent it from happening again. It's hard to explain, I hope you know what I am getting at. Maybe my 7th Saturn in Virgo is why i am surrounded by these people. But, I am learning I should trust my own judgement more of what is right and wrong.
I am going to look for your chart and have a loook at it. Here's mine. Click it and it will enlarge.