how to tell birth time with out birth certificate

[cassanra]

I am curious to find out if there is a way to find out birth time with out that birth certificate. I know several people who were born at home. After five and six kids sometimes it is not so difficult and when you live in the country you got to do what you got to do...anyways is there a way...my sister and i were laughing about birth times as I was trying to figure out her chart...she said ...well what if they doctor went off and had a cigerette or something or people got so busy they forgot to write it down etc. I know in progressions it can make a lot of difference.

[leogirl]

i'm much less experienced but i try to figure out asc options and then if it's a man's chart i'll look to see what the moon's applying aspects are to see if it makes sense as to how many marriages are promised, then i'll look at the fifth house cusp options to see how many children are promised and if that fits and i'll look at the seventh house cusp and planets to see if that profile fits the type of woman they like.

[Matthew The Astrologer]

When I'm doing a rectification, the first thing I look at is the actualy physical appearance of the person. We've all gotten so heavily into the psychological aspects of astrology that (sometimes) we forget the actual, visible signs of your birth chart.

That, and if a client first walks in and starts complaining about their hair, two to one says they've got Leo rising.

[Moulin]

True!

so if i've always had long-term relationships, been married twice, had 3 kids by both marriages AND are really hard to tie down would that equal an Aries AC? People say i'm aries but that puts lovely venusian libra on my 7th which doesn't fit my past history of relationships!

ps. I never talk about my hair!

[Arian Maverick]

If I remember correctly, you've got an Aries stellium as big as mine, so you need to take that into consideration as well. Sometimes, I think it's almost harder to rectify a natal chart when you've got many planets in one sign, because you're never sure if the influence of that sign is due to it being the Ascendant or due to the stellium. I'm biased, though

Even if you don't have a birth certificate, see if you can talk to friends, siblings, grandparents--anyone--who may have ben in attendance at your birth and grill them. Was it morning, afternoon, or night? Was it dark or light out? Although they probably won't be able to give you a specific time, a comment like "before church" can be very helpful in determining possible Ascendant signs. If you can narrow it down by half, why guess out of twelve?

Arian Maverick

[Moulin]

Hey AM!
how are you?

Yes l do have an aries stellium as big as yours hehe
I know i'm Aries rising, l just find it impossible to put a degree on it as l have all of this in my 1st H
sun
moon
mercury
venus
mars
saturn
NN

Kind of makes it tough to, as you say, figure out the wheat from the chaff

Originally Posted by Arian Maverick

If I remember correctly, you've got an Aries stellium as big as mine, so you need to take that into consideration as well. Sometimes, I think it's almost harder to rectify a natal chart when you've got many planets in one sign, because you're never sure if the influence of that sign is due to it being the Ascendant or due to the stellium. I'm biased, though

Even if you don't have a birth certificate, see if you can talk to friends, siblings, grandparents--anyone--who may have ben in attendance at your birth and grill them. Was it morning, afternoon, or night? Was it dark or light out? Although they probably won't be able to give you a specific time, a comment like "before church" can be very helpful in determining possible Ascendant signs. If you can narrow it down by half, why guess out of twelve?

Arian Maverick

[cassanra]

I think I have read somewhere that you can triangulate serious events? with planetary somethings...but the acs makes sense...that would be what I am looking for....

[Night Sky]

This subject really important because without precise time you have no accurate chart.

My Mum told me I was born at about 1 am, my Dad said it was about 12 30. Mama was unconscious anyway -Cesarian section, and Dad has always been unreliable, especially with time... "be back 5 minutes" always meant between 1-2 hours!!:38:



I knew the chart i had was wrong. When I started astrology. It was Jupiter square Ascendant. But I am knew reading about Jupiter that this is not me.


Eventually I find it in the back of a BABY BOOK, would never have bothered even looking in there but we moved house and Mum showed me the book and the time was written there blank as day: 01:46 AM!!!! BIG DIFFERENCE.


Now Saturn semisquare Ascendant exact, also Neptune Square Ascendant, also Pluto and Mercury making quintile aspects to Ascendant, all makes very much more sense... these planets I identified with specially neptune, and was actually LOOKING for a way of connecting Neptune into the chart.

And there is was!!!

[cassanra]

Thanks...I think it is sinking in...I have a friend I was working on and actully I will need to think it about it quite a bit more in relation to planets aspecting the asc. I am not sure how to deduce the affects I would see but you have given me some ideas.

[Night Sky]

Originally Posted by cassanra

Thanks...I think it is sinking in...I have a friend I was working on and actully I will need to think it about it quite a bit more in relation to planets aspecting the asc. I am not sure how to deduce the affects I would see but you have given me some ideas.

I think aspects to the Ascendant, if they are close orb, are even more personal than that of aspects to the Sun.

Somewhere i read:


"Sun = Life purpose, the future, the QUEST in life, the whole life, in it's whole...."


which contrasts with:

"Ascendant = the present, the hero on the quest..."


I remember that the Ascendant was even more personal a point than the Sun. And you can see this if you look at a Sun sign person and their Sun sign doesn't add up. Things that happen to you in life are a Solar thing. The Sun shines from rather further a distance than the Moon, even though they both appear the same size in the sky. But the Ascendant is the ground touching you and heading out Eastwards.



To me the Ascendant seems to embody THE EARTH, as a planet, though of course you can't really say this applies in the same way as the other planets. The Earth beneath our feet covers a whole 180 degrees while you take the Sun or any other planet and you can pinpoint it down to the minute of a degree.

I think what makes the AScendant so important is that it is the Earthing point where the Sky meets the Earth... it's the total materialisation of planetary energies.


When you stand on the ground and you have a planet conjunct the IC that planet's energy must travel through the entire Earth's core to reach you... Planet Earth has vibrational energy and magnetism the same as other planets. It works it's way through the houses.


Anything conjunct the Ascendant is manifesting in physical Earth, and moving towards physical exteriorisation. Anything on the MC has it's energy come down direct from the sky and has little diffusion through the Earth. On the DC and it's moving out of Earthly existence and into the Sky above us.


In Traditional Astrology of course all planets were of equal importance, sure the Sun symbolised Vitality, and was equal with Moon as each signified the opposite sexes. But Horoscopes were looked at as far as I know from the point of view of the Ascendant, and it's ruler, to begin with... all on the basis of the Ascendant as the main signifier of the person in question.

[EJ53]

Originally Posted by cassanra

I think I have read somewhere that you can triangulate serious events? with planetary somethings...but the acs makes sense...that would be what I am looking for....

You can do a search of the forum for "rectification", but I think the most exhaustive thread on this is :-

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...3908#post63908

EJ