I no longer take much notice of synastry either.
So I think it pays to look at a chart on an individual basis. Forget cookbooks. Forget *easy answers*. My experience is if the charts of REAL PEOPLE dont bear it out, then its not valid. There's no substitute for doing the hard work. Go look at the charts you have and check out for yourselves what *works* and what doesnt.
More rubbish has been written about Astrology than almost any other subject.Perhaps that's what's made it so easy for the sceptics.
lillyjgc
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On this forum, EVERYONE is allowed to freely express their astrological views no matter what level they are at, and the least the others try to grade another co-member's level, the better it is.
Oh, and personally, I find synastry a great tool to understand how two people might relate to eachother.
There are some great books for beginners that take a more dynamic, active approach, such as the Stephen Arroyo books cited in my previous post, as well as Steven Forrest's books, The Inner Sky, The Changing Sky, and Skymates [the latter with Jodie Forrest--and also her super book The Ascendant.] Arroyo uses the four elements as his starting point. If we understand the nature of the elements, then a lot of the more static check-list items of astrology make a lot more sense, because there is an explanation behind them.
Forrest looks at each planet, sign, and house as having a kind of goal or end-point. Each of them also has a kind of strategy or tool kit with which to accomplish its goal
A really good astrologer, Stephen Arroyo (Astrology, Psychology, and the Four Elements, a great book for newbies), looked at the role that the 4 elements play in people''s lives, and he argues that the elements basically tell you what is real for people. Feelings are very real for people with a lot of water in their charts, for example; whereas the excitement of ideas would characterize someone with a lot of fire and air placements.
So I think it pays to look at a chart on an individual basis. Forget cookbooks. Forget *easy answers*. My experience is if the charts of REAL PEOPLE dont bear it out, then its not valid. There's no substitute for doing the hard work. Go look at the charts you have and check out for yourselves what *works* and what doesnt.I have cancer on the descendent. I am NOT attracted to cancerian men. At all.I would never marry one.My mars would be opposite their sun quite possibly.
Its a lot more complicated than looking at the sign on the descendent.
AQ7 said:......I find synastry a great tool to understand how two people might relate to each other.
Lillyj
SO, there has to be a starting point for people, there are lots and lots of books and synastry and they can't all be wrong. This thread is about 'starting points' and everyone can contribute to add to other people's knowledge and experience.
Also when we look at the signs planets are in for example sun/mars for women, I don't feel it means look for that star sign alone, it means look for someone who has those 'traits' they could have their Asc, Node, Vertex or moon, venus in similar signs. For example, pisces, gemini and libra are all restless procrastinating and indecisive signs, cancer & virgo born worriers etc etc....
Both Britney and Justin share a Venus square Pluto aspect, when love and hate collide, powerful feelings are involved which can lead to strong vehement if love ends in betrayal. The relationship was the perfect childhood romance, and it ended painfully for both of them. The relationship broke up in early 2002; transiting Saturn in Gemini opposed her natal Sun in Sagittarius. Harsh reality and separation (Saturn) with an important male figure in her life (Sun). I do not think Britney was expecting the break-up, and she would have been feeling depressed and downhearted about life and the future.
Britney filed for divorce from Federline in November 2006 citing irreconcilable differences. She wanted legal custody of her two boys, and Federline responded by fighting for sole custody of the children. Transiting Uranus in 6th squared her natal Sun directly at this time. The transit describes her life being disrupted (Uranus) with sudden developments and altered circumstances. The rebellion had begun, and Britney wanted to be free from limiting circumstances, and she began making radical changes in her life.
Transiting Pluto was conjunct natal Neptune, and the configuration squared her natal Mars in Virgo in the 12th house. Mars-Pluto can indicate sexual troubles in a marriage, aggression and fighting for control. The aspect often involves ego-conflicts and violent eruptions. Britney had an uncompromising desire to assert her own will, and all hell broke loose. This configuration landed on her natal Mars-Neptune aspect, and this aspect describes her poor sense of boundaries around her powers of assertion. Britney’s aunt died in early 2007 from ovarian cancer. This was a painful time for Britney, they had a close relationship. Transiting Neptune squared her natal Chiron in 8th indicating an extremely bitter, wounded and emotional time for Britney. All her dreams for marriage were gone, and she lost a family member who she loved and valued. Emotional wounds can resurface at this time (Chiron 8th), needing to be healed.
How would an astrologer be able to tell from looking at synastry charts whether there will be a divorce? or whether the couple would be separated by death? or family duties? or many other separative influences?
And what would be the point/value in making such a prediction?
Starlink said:POST About synastry.I fully agree with you AG, I dont like synastry that much,personally, it most often than not does not correspond to the real situation. Two separate charts tell me heaps more about a couple and you can warn them for certain character traits of the other person. Telling them: "your mars falls conjunct his Asc. so he finds you aggressive" or "he finds that you energize him" does not help much. People must understand why that Mars of her energizes him. How does she express that Mars.I think synastry has its place, but I don't think it should make or break a relationship; as I explained on another thread, synastry provides good bone structure but it really is up to the individuals involved: their beliefs, their upbringings, their physical chemistry (pheromones and hormones) that will shape the relationship and the people's experiences of it.
But, everyone must choose what he likes best and can write what he/she thinks will be helpful to our community. Also, if people want to start with synastries, that is their wish and we cannot say:dont do that. We can explain why we would prefer to start with easier subjects first, but no more than that. Starlink
aquarius7000 said:POST Pertaining to the subject: "synastry and divorce", I'd like to say that, whilst it is all right to express one's own views as to how a certain aspect may be understood, it is really best not to express ultimatums, esp negative ones; moreso not when a person asks a delicate question, say, will we end up in front of the courts..
Lillyjgc said:POST Now keeping on topic. I ask this question: How would an astrologer be able to tell from looking at synastry charts whether there will be a divorce? or whether the couple would be separated by death? or family duties? or many other separative influences? And what would be the point/value in making such a prediction?
Simply, there *can't* be a classic divorce aspect.Some people dont even believe in divorce and will stay in a miserable marriage.Just as there isnt a *classic criminal* signature.
I agreed with EJ earlier that synastry has its useful applications.It's a very big help in understanding how we relate with others.But I baulk at using it to predict divorce.
We do have a range of people in this forum with all levels of experience and interest in astrology. I see no harm in more experienced members sharing their wisdom and what they have learned over the years with those newer to astrology. While I can see the merit of the *live and let live* approach, I dont think it advances learning in any meaningful way.
Theres a serious tendency these days to become an overnight...astrologer, healer, self proclaimed expert in any number of fields. The use of cookbook astrology encourages this. It presupposes you can *learn* the meanings of certain aspects and blindly apply them to any chart.Newcomers cant possibly know that the same aspect can have a very large range of interpretations, especially if they are reading simplistic explanations.
Another example: When I first started with Astrology I read a definition of *mercury/conjunct Neptune*- *the classic *liar* signature apparently! I know Mediums with this aspect. I also know a blind man with this aspect. They are not liars!So this type of misinformation can be very misleading and it is this type of *astrology* to which I object.
Astrology is always under scrutiny by the sceptics.I think if we are passionate about Astrology (as I am) then we do a greater service to its credibility to try to debunk the misinformation and actually encourage astrologers to plunge deeply into a range of texts and to use their own critical thought processes to come to an understanding of how complex astrology actually is.
Learning involves the synthesis of information, not merely the regurgitation of other peoples ideas.
Cheers
Lillyjgc
Waybread said:POST BTW, I support your approach to looking at two people as individuals first and formost. Some folks are not cut out to be good partners/spouses, and no amount of dyn-o-mite synastry is going to make them super to live with.
The fight was important because I would not let her control me anymore. She was pretty demanding on me and I ended up doing so much for her.