how do you predict death?

Ixaee

Well-known member
Hi Terrcolomba;

No moral astrologer will predict your death; the closest you may get is having one give you some advice on how to prolong your life and reach longevity.

Astrology isnt meant to scare others, but rather to empower...
 
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Hi Terrcolomba;

No moral astrologer will predict your death; the closest you may get is having one give you some advice on how to prolong your life and reach longevity.

Astrology isnt meant to scare others, but rather to empower... an astrologer of any worth will not describe your death to you.
i'm sick and i want to know if i am going to die.

i asked this question because i want to know how you predict death and looking for astrologers on the forum to reply with how they predict death
 

bubuza_dulce

Well-known member
I calculated the life span of all my family members using the hyleg/alcocoden thing. I studied a lot to calculate those and in the end the answer said that my aunt should have died in childhood (and she's alive at sixty - something) and my father was supposed to live and he's been dead for 18 years.

I think to predict death at a certain date is not only unethical but it is inaccurate. I studied this issue and I maybe I will study it some more but so far I've seen that things are not entirely written concerning people's choices. At some point freedom steps in and what people choose modifies the script.

I am answering you because I don't want you to feel alone.

The silence doesn't mean we don't care but that we don't know!

I'm sure many people on this forum would like to help you but they don't answer because it is unethical or maybe because they know that ANY precise answer would be a LIE.

I understand your urge to find the truth but any answer you may find will not be the right one!

I wish you all the best (also on the behalf of those who don't speak because this is a controversial issue).
 

retinoid

Well-known member
It is very complicated. The vedic dasa system is the best thing I have seen so far (perhaps 8th house ruler) however if you have certain things denoting longevity, a strong saturn or jupiter in the 8th for instance, then you will have to look another planet's dasa especially if that planet is soon. But again, it is a big complicated thing and I am not well learned in this.
 

anoop.indirapuramghazibad

Well-known member
According to Vedik Astrology, 8th house stands for Longevity, and 7th house is 12th to 8th house, means expense of Longevity. 2nd house is 8th of 7th house, means longevity of expense of Age. Hence (i) 7th Lord is lord of death, (ii) 2nd lord is also lord of death, (iii) 8th lord is lord of Age, certainly is also lord of Age, if malefic effect is on Lord of age, will effect accordingly. (iv)Planets placed with these lords of deaths can also act as lord of death. These lords are placed in various houses, their lords can also be lord of death, and their aspect will give malefic effect.
12th lord, because is 12th for Asc. 3rd house and lord because is 8th from 8th.
Now dasha, transit planets will guide us for the results.
These dashas can also impact on various aspects of life- Financially,adverse effect in Society, Mentally, Bed-ridden patients, Insult, finally last breath.
I mean to say these dashas are not good and will give ill health (Physically, Financially, Socially and finally for age)
Since Saturn is the lord of Longevity and Sun is for Self, so these two planets are also key planets to consider Longevity.
 
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According to Vedik Astrology, 8th house stands for Longevity, and 7th house is 12th to 8th house, means expense of Longevity. 2nd house is 8th of 7th house, means longevity of expense of Age. Hence (i) 7th Lord is lord of death, (ii) 2nd lord is also lord of death, (iii) 8th lord is lord of Age, certainly is also lord of Age, if malefic effect is on Lord of age, will effect accordingly. (iv)Planets placed with these lords of deaths can also act as lord of death. These lords are placed in various houses, their lords can also be lord of death, and their aspect will give malefic effect.
12th lord, because is 12th for Asc. 3rd house and lord because is 8th from 8th.
Now dasha, transit planets will guide us for the results.
These dashas can also impact on various aspects of life- Financially,adverse effect in Society, Mentally, Bed-ridden patients, Insult, finally last breath.
I mean to say these dashas are not good and will give ill health (Physically, Financially, Socially and finally for age)
thanks.
this is whitney houston natal with transits of the day she died
https://infinitynow.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/whitney_houston-natal.gif
what caused her death in the chart?

natal 7th , 12th to 8th is mercury and square south node in 4th and 2nd mars 8th to 8th square pluto
 

Claire19

Well-known member
how do you predict death?
Part of Death? the 8th house? the 12th house? Saturn? the Hyleg?
No ethical astrologer will address that issue. There are many scenarios for death and really who wants to know???. IF it cannot be prevented it is futile. Transits and progressions will give indications but it is advisable only for those who we are know are dying and may give timing.
 

Claire19

Well-known member
thanks.
this is whitney houston natal with transits of the day she died
https://infinitynow.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/whitney_houston-natal.gif
what caused her death in the chart?

natal 7th , 12th to 8th is mercury and square south node in 4th and 2nd mars 8th to 8th square pluto
This has been addressed in other posts. No squares to south node involved. The 8th house was involved as was the 6th house. Although her death was accidental, it was almost inevitable she would die of drug overdose, given her history. She was in rehab but had been many times before. Her addiction was intense and deep and very hard to overcome.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
thanks.
this is whitney houston natal with transits of the day she died
https://infinitynow.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/whitney_houston-natal.gif
what caused her death in the chart?

natal 7th , 12th to 8th is mercury and square south node in 4th and 2nd mars 8th to 8th square pluto
There is some discussion specifically of Whitney Houston's recent passing at this link http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46808
and
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47191:smile:
02-19-2012, 03:11 AM
JUPITERASC
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,498


Re: Hyleg and Alcocoden
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandstone
here is my simple thesis :
if you want to learn about the hyleg and alcocoden( or any other interesting technique to astrology), use an astrology chart that is rated AA.. you stand a better chance of learning the technique you are trying to figure out, as opposed to getting bogged down with a chart that has question marks around it.. as much as it might be fun to focus on someone who you really want to know better that is also famous - pick someone with a chart that is rated AA.. you will get further... go with whitney houstons chart, not because i like her, but because you can try the technique out on a chart that is rated AA.. cheers -


Reminder to all: Omnisphericus commenced this thread with a traditional analysis of Whitney Houston's AA rated chart and IMO has delivered convincing results!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnisphericus
I will try firstly to give the example of the Hyleg and Alcocoden in the chart of the recently died pop diva Whitney Houston.

Lets take the example of Whitney Houston.

Attachment 26865

Her chart is a night chart so we first look for a potential Hyleg in the Moon.
Moon is under the Horizon in a night chart, so it can not be Hyleg.
Then we go to the Sun (in a day chart we first go with the Sun), the Sun is in cadent 6th house so it can not be Hyleg too.
Than we look at the Syzygy, or the last lunation prior the birth. In the Whitney's chart it was a Full Moon prior the birth so the chart is so called Preventional and we take the Pars Fortuna as potential Hyleg.
It is in 4th in Cancer.
We now look at the dispositors to see which dispositor takes the most dignity points at the degree in which the PoF is.
For that reason we take the dignity table, I will use here a table with triplicities according to Dorotheus and terms according to the Egyptians.
Domicileruler takes 5 points, exaltation ruler 4, triplicity ruler 3, term ruler 2 and face ruler 1 point.
Moon, domicile ruler = 5 points
Jupiter exaltation ruler 4 points
Mars, triplicity ruler 3 points
Venus, term ruler 2 points
Venus, face ruler 1 point.

Next we look if the Moon (as having the most points in that degree in which PoF is) is making some classical (conjunction, sextile, square, trine, opposition) aspect to the PoF. She is making a square to the Fortuna but it is in wide orbs (although in the moiety). Jupiter is out of orb. Venus is not in aspect. Mars is making a partile (exact) aspect to the PoF and we will take him instead of the Moon (because it is in partile aspect).


So, Part Of Fortune is a Hyleg in Whitney's chart and Mars is Alcocoden.


Next we look at the years table of the planets potential Alcocodens:

Attachment 26866

We see that the minor years of Mars are 15, Middle Years 40,5 and major years 66.

Mars is angular but in very week sign position (in Exile) so we will take its Middle years (40.5).
Next, we look at the aspects which Mars receives from the benefics and malefics.
If benefic aspects the Alcocoden with Con, sextile or trine adds its minor years as years and its middle years as months, weeks or days (according to the position in which lies).
If Malefic aspects the Alcocoden, subtract from the Alcocoden with its minor years and middle years as months, weeks or days.

Mars is aspecting the other malefic Saturn, but with trine (so this not subtract years because it is benevolent aspect).

Mars is making opposition with Jupiter but out of orb, and with opposition so this does not add to the years.
Mars is making a sextile to Venus and she can add her minor years.
So we add Venus' minor years (8), and her middle years as days (45), because she is cadent and combust. If she was in good position we would add her middle years as months.

So we have,

40.5years + 8years + 45 days = 48 years 7 months and 15 days.
Whitney lived 48 years 6 months and 2 days
.



__________________
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
02-16-2012, 07:34 AM
JUPITERASC
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,498


Re: Hyleg and Alcocoden
IMO we are all agreed that Omnisphericus thread is intended for the purpose of exploring the idea that the Hyleg and Alcocoden are an indication regarding the Vital Life Force of the native - meaning the potential Vital Life Force in the absence of any form of intervention:smile:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnisphericus
So, Hyleg and Alcocoden are showing the Vital Life Force of the native. They show how much years in life do you have according to the 'Esse' or the condition of your body and soul. With the modern medicine it seems out that this Esse is prolonged,

If the nativity dies from a serial killer, or a car accident H & A does not count, they do not show the accidents, they show the condition of the body and soul and accordingly how much years one have
.


dr. farr has underlined the value of this approach of assessing potential Vital Life Force of the native for simply therapeutic purposes::smile:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. farr
However, I do think that many use this kind of thing for indications of potential critical years rather than fatalistic death clock predicting

-I KNOW that most reputable jyotish use "longevity" evaluations for just that purpose (indications of critical years), and in astro-therapeutics these "red flag" indications, derived from such methods, are of value in preventive therapeutics.


For example - and completely different from the technique described in this thread - use of simple symbolic progression (1 year = 1 degree, first mentioned in the 12th century by Ibn Ezra in his "Beginning of Wisdom") can be quite valuable in pointing out potentially critical times: use of the progressed SN to various natal points is one of these valuable methods:

in the case of Whitney Houston, her progressed SN conjuncted her ascending degree (8 Pisces) at her 48th birthday (natal SN @ 20 Capricorn): astro-therapeutically, this would have been a red flag that her 48th year was a definite critical period,

and preventive measures (low stress, much care about drugs and medication, tonification for her heart -which her natal indicated as a potential weak area in her health, etc) would have been prescribed for her by a knowledgeable practitioner;

the fact that classical hyleg/alcohedron analysis (which I myself do not use) also indicated her 48th year as possibly anaretic (as one of 3 such possible critical years using the analysis given in this thread) would have decidedly underscored the critical-ness of the 48th year and the importance of undertaking natural (non-drug) preventive and corrective measures, during that time...


IMO dr. farr has highlighted the importance of these techniques in SUPPORTING the native at critical times during the life

dr. farr thank you for encapsulating the historical rationale highlighting the unambiguous clarity of whole sign houses :smile:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. farr
TSMALL
In whole sign, Sun in same sign as ascendant and above the ascending degree CANNOT be cadent - it must be in the first house;

Liber Hermetis (earlier than the 6th century AD) made a big deal about this, and gave quite different indications for the Sun IN THE FIRST HOUSE, being above the ascending degree (therefore diurnal) vs being below the ascending degree (and therefore being nocturnal)

Only in Equal house and all the quadrant systems, can the diurnal Sun in the same sign as the ascending degree, become "cadent" by being placed (by these methods) in the 12th

...I consider this evidence of the unnatural ramifications which various theoretical house division systems, can produce...(my opinion)



 

MSO

Well-known member
Death is unpredictable. There are a variety of variables that go into it and you just can't account for them all with something as vague as astrology.

For example, some people have charts that show they should've died in childhood. And this would be 100% true... 500 years ago when we didn't have vaccines for smallpox. Or maybe you'll get shot and die, except the hospital you were sent to has the most advanced trauma center in the world and they manage to perform a miracle and save you. You never know, with all the advances we have it's hard to say how or why someone will die.

Furthermore, as someone stated above, it's immoral for an astrologer to tell you of your time of death. The reason being is similar to an effect researchers observe when they're studying people. The presence of the researcher invariably changes the subject. The same is true for the astrologer; the knowledge of your death changes how you respond to it, leading to a strong possibility the initial outcome was changed.
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
Closest we can come is the identification of possible critical periods and a determi9nation of the quality of influences operating during those periods. And even this can really only be done with substantial accuracy by experts in the field of predictive astrology.
 

anoop.indirapuramghazibad

Well-known member
I had seen this chart according to Vedik Astrology. At the time of Death Mahadasha - Moon, Antar dasha- Venus, Pratyantar Dasha - Moon, Sukshm Dasha - Merc., and Pran Dasha- Sat.
Now Moon- 5L, placed in Asc, Venus 8L and 3L(8th from 8th) placed with Sun6L (Aspect from Sat - malefic impact on Venus), again Moon - 5L, Merc- 7L and 4th lord, and finally sat. 11L and 12L (aspect from Venus-8L and Sun, malefic impact).
Out of these dashas- Mahadasha Placed in Asc, and 5th house (10th from 8th lord) placed in self effecting self, Ven. - for 8 L (8L is the lord of age) and 8th from 8th (3rd L), Moon -self, Merc. (7th Lord- Lord of death), then Sat. (Effective from 10-2-2012 mid night to 13-2-2012) 12 L (Expense of Self)
Now Transit Sat, in 8th house, Jup. in 2nd house Aspects- Merc., Sat. Aspects- Sat in 11 house, Venus in 5th house and 2nd house. Mars - placed in 6th house, aspects-12 house and Moon self. Moon in 6th house aspects 12H.
Now if we see Divisional charts D-3, Sat is 8Land 7L (Lord of Age and death) Marc. Lord of 12 house (Expense of self), Moon Asc. , Now D-12, Sat.- 8L and 7th L, Mer and Ven placed in 8th house, Moon Asc.
D-30 , Ven 2nd L and 7L,Sat 3rd house (8th from 8thhouse)
 

SniperBomber328

Well-known member
Death is unpredictable. There are a variety of variables that go into it and you just can't account for them all with something as vague as astrology.

For example, some people have charts that show they should've died in childhood. And this would be 100% true... 500 years ago when we didn't have vaccines for smallpox. Or maybe you'll get shot and die, except the hospital you were sent to has the most advanced trauma center in the world and they manage to perform a miracle and save you. You never know, with all the advances we have it's hard to say how or why someone will die.

Furthermore, as someone stated above, it's immoral for an astrologer to tell you of your time of death. The reason being is similar to an effect researchers observe when they're studying people. The presence of the researcher invariably changes the subject. The same is true for the astrologer; the knowledge of your death changes how you respond to it, leading to a strong possibility the initial outcome was changed.

Was going to post something like the above until I saw your post. Although it would've been less constructive (since I can never offer a proper analyzation without loosing my train of thought).
 

poyi

Premium Member
According to Vedik Astrology, 8th house stands for Longevity, and 7th house is 12th to 8th house, means expense of Longevity. 2nd house is 8th of 7th house, means longevity of expense of Age. Hence (i) 7th Lord is lord of death, (ii) 2nd lord is also lord of death, (iii) 8th lord is lord of Age, certainly is also lord of Age, if malefic effect is on Lord of age, will effect accordingly. (iv)Planets placed with these lords of deaths can also act as lord of death. These lords are placed in various houses, their lords can also be lord of death, and their aspect will give malefic effect.
12th lord, because is 12th for Asc. 3rd house and lord because is 8th from 8th.
Now dasha, transit planets will guide us for the results.
These dashas can also impact on various aspects of life- Financially,adverse effect in Society, Mentally, Bed-ridden patients, Insult, finally last breath.
I mean to say these dashas are not good and will give ill health (Physically, Financially, Socially and finally for age)
Since Saturn is the lord of Longevity and Sun is for Self, so these two planets are also key planets to consider Longevity.

In that case, what will it means when your Mars is superlative planet and 8th house cusp in Aries ruler is Mars?
 

poyi

Premium Member
Death is unpredictable. There are a variety of variables that go into it and you just can't account for them all with something as vague as astrology.

For example, some people have charts that show they should've died in childhood. And this would be 100% true... 500 years ago when we didn't have vaccines for smallpox. Or maybe you'll get shot and die, except the hospital you were sent to has the most advanced trauma center in the world and they manage to perform a miracle and save you. You never know, with all the advances we have it's hard to say how or why someone will die.

Furthermore, as someone stated above, it's immoral for an astrologer to tell you of your time of death. The reason being is similar to an effect researchers observe when they're studying people. The presence of the researcher invariably changes the subject. The same is true for the astrologer; the knowledge of your death changes how you respond to it, leading to a strong possibility the initial outcome was changed.

Hahaha I like what you said "the knowledge of your death changes how you respond to it"

I guess end of discussion then :joyful:
 
Closest we can come is the identification of possible critical periods and a determi9nation of the quality of influences operating during those periods. And even this can really only be done with substantial accuracy by experts in the field of predictive astrology.
how can someone identify possible critical periods and determine the quality of their influences? what's the method? thanks

I had seen this chart according to Vedik Astrology. At the time of Death Mahadasha - Moon, Antar dasha- Venus, Pratyantar Dasha - Moon, Sukshm Dasha - Merc., and Pran Dasha- Sat.
Now Moon- 5L, placed in Asc, Venus 8L and 3L(8th from 8th) placed with Sun6L (Aspect from Sat - malefic impact on Venus), again Moon - 5L, Merc- 7L and 4th lord, and finally sat. 11L and 12L (aspect from Venus-8L and Sun, malefic impact).
Out of these dashas- Mahadasha Placed in Asc, and 5th house (10th from 8th lord) placed in self effecting self, Ven. - for 8 L (8L is the lord of age) and 8th from 8th (3rd L), Moon -self, Merc. (7th Lord- Lord of death), then Sat. (Effective from 10-2-2012 mid night to 13-2-2012) 12 L (Expense of Self)
Now Transit Sat, in 8th house, Jup. in 2nd house Aspects- Merc., Sat. Aspects- Sat in 11 house, Venus in 5th house and 2nd house. Mars - placed in 6th house, aspects-12 house and Moon self. Moon in 6th house aspects 12H.
Now if we see Divisional charts D-3, Sat is 8Land 7L (Lord of Age and death) Marc. Lord of 12 house (Expense of self), Moon Asc. , Now D-12, Sat.- 8L and 7th L, Mer and Ven placed in 8th house, Moon Asc.
D-30 , Ven 2nd L and 7L,Sat 3rd house (8th from 8thhouse)
what's divisional charts? what did you mean(the underlined part)?
thanks


MSO,if an astrologer predict death to someone that isn't already dying,they can try to prevent their death if they know the quality of the influences(dr. farr said that you can know that.) and that could be why there are critical times because if you know the method to find the critical times and the quality of their influences(dr. farr could tell us) you may be able to prevent it.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
how can someone identify possible critical periods and determine the quality of their influences? what's the method? thanks

MSO,if an astrologer predict death to someone that isn't already dying,they can try to prevent their death if they know the quality of the influences(dr. farr said that you can know that.) and that could be why there are critical times because if you know the method to find the critical times and the quality of their influences(dr. farr could tell us) you may be able to prevent it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnisphericus
So, Hyleg and Alcocoden are showing the Vital Life Force of the native. They show how much years in life do you have according to the 'Esse' or the condition of your body and soul. With the modern medicine it seems out that this Esse is prolonged,

If the nativity dies from a serial killer, or a car accident H & A does not count, they do not show the accidents, they show the condition of the body and soul and accordingly how much years one have.

dr. farr has indicated the value of this approach of assessing potential Vital Life Force of the native for simply therapeutic purposes: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46808:smile:
 
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