Maria, thank you for explaining. This makes so much sense. You have described what could be a difficult concept to understand in a way that is elegant, and now I know what I'll be thinking about all day.
tamara
Thank you tsmall, I tried to be as clear and concise as possible.
JUPITERASC;
“….key to person's character, prosperity, characterises physical body & is the medium through which other lots operate, as it is ‘physical body’/vehicle through which person executes ambitions: is considered gateway.
Interestingly, although the sun and moon have only one domicile Ibn Ezra comments: "as they are both rulers, the domiciles are considered as belonging to one ruler" and Abu Ma'shar also states: “Even though the Moon has only one domicile and the Sun has only one domicile, as they are both rulers, the domiciles are considered as belonging to one ruler."
Thus IMO, it is apparent that for ancient astrologers
(a) sun in Cancer/moon in Cancer is in own domicile
(b) sun in Leo/moon in Leo is in own domicile
AND SO intriguingly however - IMO Hellenistically speaking - a natal sun located in Cancer cannot be regarded as being in own 12th house – irrespective of sect
Likewise -IMO Hellenistically speaking - a natal moon located in Cancer cannot be regarded as being in own 12th house – irrespective of sect
It would seem then that for Hellenistic astrologers, the exception in this case being BOTH sun and moon SHARE not only domiciles but also sole “own 12th” Gemini
From my reading of the authors who developed and used the concept of 'lots' there was never any talk of the lots having psychological meaning attached. I am not saying they can't, but it could be a big mistake to just attach psychological characteristics to them without carefully understanding what they were developed for; then building on that foundation. Personally, I use the lots for the purpose they were designed for in Hellenistic times. In these times the lots were used to investigate specific topics allied to the natal delineation. For example, in looking at ones father, one technique would be to assess the natal Sun/Saturn combined with the lot of the father, then relate these to the fortune houses because angular from a fortune perspective means it IS coming your way, or directly at the person who owns the natal chart.
Ja'far ibn Muḥammad al-Balkhī (787–886), known as Abū
Ma'
shar, lived in Baghdad in the 9th century and Avraham Ibn Ezra (1089-1164) were pre-cursors to Medieval Horary Astrology. Outside of the Hellenistic community very little was known about Greek horoscopic astrology, one clear example is the arabs thinking of lots as parts and mutiplying them beyond all proportion, the truth was they were just trying to emulate what the Greeks were doing with only tidbits of information and failed to even notice how lots were contructed. They just thought you could take any two parts and project them from the asc etc.
I respect of the Sun and Moon both ruling cancer and Leo you have lost me. The Zoroatrians developed a system where the Sun was said to 'be happy' in both Cancer and Leo, but in no ancient sources have I ever found it said that the Moon could rule both signs. The Greeks would have thought this was heresy as the Moon was described as being a "counterfeit light" and the Sun is "ruler of ones all".
I am at a loss when you say "Hellenistically speaking... because I am well versed in Hellenistic astrology and I can reiterate that the moon in Gemini would have been considered in its own natural 12th place.
It would seem then that for Hellenistic astrologers, the exception in this case being BOTH sun and moon SHARE not only domiciles but also sole “own 12th” Gemini
Please provide a reference for this because I cannot find a single Hellenistic astrologer who stated and/or recorded this.
You quote the link to Vettius Valens Anthologies which I know particularly well, are you familiar with the Ten books? The free online translation, Robert Schmidt's translation or both? I cannot source your assertions in either of those and would be grateful for your source. Thank you
Maria
