Is he manipulative and deceptive or is this just power struggle?

anjelik

Well-known member
Moon in Gemini feels safer when it has all the facts. Moon opposite Uranus may seek to understand the underlying principles behind possible sources of emotional sustenance as an antidote to an expectancy of disruption (with Mercury in Aquarius happy to get involved in this theorising). Also Capricorn needs reassurance, as does Chiron in Taurus on the IC. But I would avoid the temptation to see astrology as having all the answers. This isn't meant in a condescending way. We all clamber for definite answers when we are feeling uncomfortable or uncertain.

As I read this my close friend said to me "lay off the astrology." Too funny. :)
 

anjelik

Well-known member
It's been three months so I thought I'd report back and thank you for both for your thoughts.

I do not think he is a manipulative - I think it's more me trying to maintain power and control over myself (because I have a very strong desire to be independent). He actually likes when I banter back and forth with him - perhaps this is his Aries ASC, which I have noticed more and more. Sometimes he's really arrogant and he seems to like when I tell him to shut up and get over himself. I can deal with Aries in small doses and his is playful enough. I've definitely experienced his Aqua moon - to which he seems to have a knee jerk explosion and then apologizes very quickly. There is no sense of pride and he owns up to his mistakes, which I think is really cool because as someone with a Gemini moon I don't really hold grudges and I move on from situations rather quickly.

I do wonder if he does see a little bit of his mom in me. The way he describes his mother (her birthday is today, in fact) is a woman who didn't take any **** and spoke her mind, but in a very diplomatic way - which is a lot like me.

His sun in the 12th house kind of worries me - isn't this a possible sign of someone with substance abuse problems? He is British so drinking is very much ingrained in the culture, so I cannot determine whether it's just the way he was raised (which it seems) or if it's something else.

He has told me that he doesn't want to be with anyone else, but at the same time he has never said we are in a relationship. I operate under the rule of unless you tell me we are committed, we are not. And while I do not have the desire to date anyone else, I still maintain some mystery because I feel like I need full commitment in order to let myself be vulnerable. Sometimes I can be a little withdrawn and I know this bugs him. He is coming to visit me again next weekend and in May and I am going over there in April. I guess we shall see what happens with this trans-atlantic love affair.

THANKS FOR YOUR INSIGHT A FEW MONTHS AGO!!!! :)
 
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ptolomy

Well-known member
Dear Anjelik

I guess that because you send us an update and revive this thread that you are after any more info we can give before you commit to this man?I feel a strong need to warn you that what i said before was not explained clearly enough,But i think it is also important to remind you of your original first statement which in my opinion suggested that you already at the very least knew that there was something going on,But maybe you needed others opinions to clarify or confirm your suspicions?What can i say but seriously warn you that this relationship is hopeless and possibly even dangerous.I know this sounds a bit OTT,But seriously why write,Quote:"Re:Is he manipulative and deceptive or is this just a power struggle?"Unquote.Why did you write this.Something must have happened for you to suggest this?You didn't just say this because you saw the composite chart did you?You experienced something that made you suspicious?,what was it please?We need to know.
I understand that some would maybe suspect something to do with Neptune,,But this planet doesn't fit the keywords
"Manipulative",Deceptive","Power struggle"These are not Neptune's modes,deceptive maybe occasionally,Never Manipulative,Neptune has principals which work against being Egotistical,Selfish,and is therefore against being manipulative and into power struggles for your own needs,As this is not going to achieve Neptune's ultimate need for 'Unconditional Love'.
I can only assume otherwise that you saw the composite chart,You saw the 7th house of this chart,You saw the battle going on there between Pluto,Mars,Saturn etc,You maybe thought that all those Trine's to the 7th from the Moon and Mercury in Aquarius,and the Trine from Jupiter in Gemini could some how overcome this battle,that they could tone it down a bit?Maybe in my hopeful opinion,The fact the corner falls in Libra which is just another 7th house over lay,That it will make relationship paramount,rather than battling with each other?.My own experience of Mars Conjunct Mars in a composite chart is continuous fighting for one up'manship,And this in itself is hard enough to control in one self with out the additional energy that operates below the threshold of consciousness,Namely Pluto.When it works in the 7th it works to change any parts that are not viable, Irrespective of whether we like it or not it will change that part,And if its main aggravation and tools that it has to work with are Mars and Saturn, and Mars and Saturns rather blunt way of sorting things out,It wont care whether you find it all very aggressive and even possibly violent,or not,Pluto will just get on with the job.I keep worrying that i am being OTT myself by saying such things,And maybe i'm exaggerating and i am consequently ruining a possible good relationship,Albeit with a certain amount of arguing and bickering(Moon Sq Mars),or Manipulating and power struggles(Pluto Con Mars Saturn) and( Saturn Sq Mars),With a touch of hard nosed relentlessness)???..... I might be completely wrong,What an idiot and ruin-er i would feel.......I sure hope i am wrong,I sure hope that Libra will hold these things back as they go against its major principals as well,Also the Trine from Jupiter,That's got to be optimistically supportive,Just like the Trine from Moon/Mercury in a socializing and conversational way.....Just something deep down is going to wait its time and get on with the job when its necessary,and hopefully not in to much of a negative way.
Have you noticed that the 2 nodes also fall close to the Square zone?,This suggests,Though doesn't confirm that you have met before and that you maybe need to sort thing out.
Also Neptune sq Venus could be connected in a loving sense.And might be one of the unconscious draws connected to the past,but drawing you together now.
There appear lots of factors pulling you together and trying to be supportive.But ultimately.....sooner or later a storm will brew,It will be very hard not to lose it.Because it creeps up on you.
I will shut up now and wish you well,And try and be a bit more positive in future....honest....:) Lol im bad.Please forgive me?
 

anjelik

Well-known member
Dear Anjelik

I guess that because you send us an update and revive this thread that you are after any more info we can give before you commit to this man?I feel a strong need to warn you that what i said before was not explained clearly enough,But i think it is also important to remind you of your original first statement which in my opinion suggested that you already at the very least knew that there was something going on,But maybe you needed others opinions to clarify or confirm your suspicions?What can i say but seriously warn you that this relationship is hopeless and possibly even dangerous.I know this sounds a bit OTT,But seriously why write,Quote:"Re:Is he manipulative and deceptive or is this just a power struggle?"Unquote.Why did you write this.Something must have happened for you to suggest this?You didn't just say this because you saw the composite chart did you?You experienced something that made you suspicious?,what was it please?We need to know.
I understand that some would maybe suspect something to do with Neptune,,But this planet doesn't fit the keywords
"Manipulative",Deceptive","Power struggle"These are not Neptune's modes,deceptive maybe occasionally,Never Manipulative,Neptune has principals which work against being Egotistical,Selfish,and is therefore against being manipulative and into power struggles for your own needs,As this is not going to achieve Neptune's ultimate need for 'Unconditional Love'.
I can only assume otherwise that you saw the composite chart,You saw the 7th house of this chart,You saw the battle going on there between Pluto,Mars,Saturn etc,You maybe thought that all those Trine's to the 7th from the Moon and Mercury in Aquarius,and the Trine from Jupiter in Gemini could some how overcome this battle,that they could tone it down a bit?Maybe in my hopeful opinion,The fact the corner falls in Libra which is just another 7th house over lay,That it will make relationship paramount,rather than battling with each other?.My own experience of Mars Conjunct Mars in a composite chart is continuous fighting for one up'manship,And this in itself is hard enough to control in one self with out the additional energy that operates below the threshold of consciousness,Namely Pluto.When it works in the 7th it works to change any parts that are not viable, Irrespective of whether we like it or not it will change that part,And if its main aggravation and tools that it has to work with are Mars and Saturn, and Mars and Saturns rather blunt way of sorting things out,It wont care whether you find it all very aggressive and even possibly violent,or not,Pluto will just get on with the job.I keep worrying that i am being OTT myself by saying such things,And maybe i'm exaggerating and i am consequently ruining a possible good relationship,Albeit with a certain amount of arguing and bickering(Moon Sq Mars),or Manipulating and power struggles(Pluto Con Mars Saturn) and( Saturn Sq Mars),With a touch of hard nosed relentlessness)???..... I might be completely wrong,What an idiot and ruin-er i would feel.......I sure hope i am wrong,I sure hope that Libra will hold these things back as they go against its major principals as well,Also the Trine from Jupiter,That's got to be optimistically supportive,Just like the Trine from Moon/Mercury in a socializing and conversational way.....Just something deep down is going to wait its time and get on with the job when its necessary,and hopefully not in to much of a negative way.
Have you noticed that the 2 nodes also fall close to the Square zone?,This suggests,Though doesn't confirm that you have met before and that you maybe need to sort thing out.
Also Neptune sq Venus could be connected in a loving sense.And might be one of the unconscious draws connected to the past,but drawing you together now.
There appear lots of factors pulling you together and trying to be supportive.But ultimately.....sooner or later a storm will brew,It will be very hard not to lose it.Because it creeps up on you.
I will shut up now and wish you well,And try and be a bit more positive in future....honest....:) Lol im bad.Please forgive me?


Hi, thanks for your thoughts. I wrote that because I am suspicious of everyone, really. I really have a zero tolerance policy when it comes to people and if I feel in any way shape or form someone is trying to pull power plays on me, I drop them. So, there was nothing that he did per say. He was a little flaky around the holidays and when I told him I am not playing games and am not interested in him any further he did a 180 and changed his tune completely. We don't argue - we have had disagreements and he can be a little more emotional and dramatic than I am, but in the end it never escalates to anywhere close to the level of intensity I've had with other people. All disagreements never get to the point of aggression and always end with some sort of solution or compromise. So to answer your question, yes, my question did come from looking at some of our aspects and it just made me go into ultra-defense and analyzing-mode.
 

anjelik

Well-known member
I'm actually on the outside of the synastry - so that's my Mars, Pluto and Saturn all in his 7th House (Libra).

In the composite I see those same planets are also int he 7th house of Virgo and not Libra. Our composite Mercury is in Pisces. My personal Mercury is in Aquarius and his in Pisces.
 
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