A question on Religions

bradderz777

Well-known member
Sometimes friends disagree bradderz777 :smile:

Traditional astrologer William Lilly http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Lilly was obviously aware of the disapproval of astrology in religious circles so he entitled the book he wrote "Christian Astrology"

Thank you for your reply! :)

It was just in a conversation in which I had with a few of my friends tonight whilst having a drink of alcohol. I mentioned about astrology and they all laughed their heads off and one of my friends said "dude, why do you believe in that star sign garbage, none of it is real, only true is Christianity and that god made the universe and that is all you need to know!!!"

I don't agree........................
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Thank you for your reply! :)

It was just in a conversation in which I had with a few of my friends tonight whilst having a drink of alcohol. I mentioned about astrology and they all laughed their heads off and one of my friends said "dude, why do you believe in that star sign garbage, none of it is real, only true is Christianity and that god made the universe and that is all you need to know!!!"

I don't agree........................
Most people think that the "Star sign garbage" popular in newspapers as well as online is the totality of astrology. But there is more to astrology - as your friends would discover if they took the time to study a few books on the subject e.g. William Lilly's Christian Astrology or even Vettius Valens "Anthology". If you are interested to learn some astrology then do not be put off by the idea by your friends:smile:

 
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scorpittarian

Well-known member
I was an atheist for four years and god did everything possible to make my life hell during these four years. I led a pretty peaceful life till the day I became an atheist :pouty: I was almost expelled twice, almost died, flunked exams, touched heights of notoriety, experienced my first heart break which made me cry for the next 4 months; some guy even posed as a police officer & tried arresting me just to have a good time....:sick:

I had a crush on a guy in between & was advised by a friend "to pray". My prayers were heard! :biggrin: It was indeed a deal. I told god that I'll start believing in it if it gives me what I want which it did. After a month, I lost interest in both, the guy and god. The former continued asking me to get back for one whole year & I ignored him. After 2 years, karma decided to slap me on my face. I became the pursuer, he pretended, I fell hard, he dumped, I cried for 1/2 a year :pouty: Now, that's when I became a theist. :innocent:

My life began stabilizing then on. I left home at the age of 17 looking for "inner peace" & answers to certain questions. I had no idea as to where I was going, how I was going to find peace, etc. Moreover, I was in a foreign country with no money. Then this guy came running behind me asking if I needed help. I told him I needed to get to a holy place to spend the night there. He said that the so called holy men aren't right & I should get back home. He even offered money but I told him the only help he could render was drop me off safely at a temple, mosque, church or whatever. He & his friend actually sat for the next 3 hours explaining why I should get back home. I agreed. :sideways:

I'm a non-religious theist. I was born & brought up in an Islamic state, come from a Hindu/Presbyterian/Buddhist family & went to a catholic school/university. I like Buddhism the most. It's an irony that Buddha himself was an atheist/agnostic. I find each and every religion faulty & if we choose to believe that god is infallible, it wouldn't have said stupid things. I often wonder why god chose only men as it's messengers.

I've a quite unorthodox view on god. I talk to it at any time of the day and we're more of buddies. And according to a lot of people, the way I talk is "disrespectful". I know this sounds stupid but I do talk to stars & the moon. I feel they protect me. I fear karma, believe in good spirits, astrology & the law of attraction. I have to test everything before believing.

Religion & god are definitely related but they are two separate & distinct concepts. God very well belongs to house 9. But religion, if we go by the literal definition, appears to be something very saturnine. Something traditional that's passed down from one generation to another. Something you're born without but are brainwashed to believe in. And most die holding it close to their heart, pretty resilient to change. I see it as deception so I agree with Kaiousei.
 

Anachiel

Well-known member
Thank you for your reply! :)

It was just in a conversation in which I had with a few of my friends tonight whilst having a drink of alcohol. I mentioned about astrology and they all laughed their heads off and one of my friends said "dude, why do you believe in that star sign garbage, none of it is real, only true is Christianity and that god made the universe and that is all you need to know!!!"

I don't agree........................


I really don't want to comment on this but, I feel something needs to be addressed. Hon, REAL friends might not always agree with you but, they won't try to change or humiliate you, either.

Also, religion can only point at churches and their own belief (which is outdated to say the least). Astrologers can point at stars and statistics (which is a might more than what zealots have to look at). In any case, live and let live.

The problem is, most religious people can't let people live. They feel they have to impose or, historically, torture, maim and kill to prove their point and "save" everyone. I don't see a lot of other belief systems or practices doing that, except for religion which, to me, is a red flag. Might a well be Nazi for all that's worth. Sorry, but someone had to say it. Fine line between a belief and a psychosis.

You have the right to believe as you like without fear of ridicule and punishment. You don't have to try to prove your practice or belief, you simply need to live your life as you see fit without imposition from or upon others. When in doubt, take the Zen approach.
 

retinoid

Well-known member
Religion & god are definitely related but they are two separate & distinct concepts. God very well belongs to house 9. But religion, if we go by the literal definition, appears to be something very saturnine. Something traditional that's passed down from one generation to another. Something you're born without but are brainwashed to believe in. And most die holding it close to their heart, pretty resilient to change. I see it as deception so I agree with Kaiousei.


I had an agnostic view of god. Never an atheist. But I still am not sure. I know I will never be sure. I treat others as I want to be treated and trust in a plan. But when I pray or meditate and feel divine energy, I am not sure if it is that or just a chemical reaction. In any case there is a marginal utility for religion/spirituality-too much is bad too little is bad. Materialism is the same way.
 

scorpittarian

Well-known member
No technology has been devised as yet that can prove god's existence or non-existence. Just because we can't see/hear/feel/touch/taste something, doesn't mean it's not there. Centuries ago, no soul would've believed in atoms but in the 21st century, no soul can deny their existence.

An atheist/agnostic's history professor teaches him that chingiz khan was a shabby old man whose teeth shone like the Sun. He believes. His biology professor teaches him that streptococci cause meningitis. He believes. His moral science professor talks about the miracles performed by Jesus, Sai Baba, Buddha, Mahavira.....he doesn't believe/doubts.

As an atheist I would dismiss anything 'divine' (according to popular opinion) as coincidence, superstition, human psychology, ignorance, etc. But then I realized that believing in a god doesn't hurt. I feel better believing that my god will protect me if the earth decides to split into two & gulp me in. We all die in ignorance. Dying a bit more ignorant won't hurt.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
........... We all die in ignorance. Dying a bit more ignorant won't hurt.
(1) Is there universally accepted "scientific evidence" evidence that “we all die in ignorance”?

(2) Is there universally accepted “scientific evidence” that “dying a bit more ignorant won't hurt”?
:smile:
I do think that pointing to one planet and saying 'that's your religion/worldview/idea about the meaning of life, right there' is a bit reductionist.

You have to assess the whole chart. But I do find the location and condition of Jupiter is generally a good indication of how a person thinks or feels about religion. Also the ruler of the 9th, and planets in the 9th or aspecting.

Saturn/Jupiter interacting in the 9th could lead to a kind of disciplinarian religious persuasion. Or other similar configurations.
Deborah Houlding says the 9th house is relevant to “Places and situations where we seek guidance and wisdom from others. Where we reach out into the unknown in search of widening our knowledge and understanding”

Lynn Birkbeck says: “In the 9th house we seek to understand the meaning of our experiences and our connections to the greater whole. This house represents our search for meaning through philosophy and religion. In this area of life we also seek to expand our knowledge and awareness through travel and higher education. Hence this house is also connected with all forms of higher education, travel to foreign lands, the law, religion and the use of the higher or more intuitive mental faculties”
 

retinoid

Well-known member
No technology has been devised as yet that can prove god's existence or non-existence. Just because we can't see/hear/feel/touch/taste something, doesn't mean it's not there. Centuries ago, no soul would've believed in atoms but in the 21st century, no soul can deny their existence.

An atheist/agnostic's history professor teaches him that chingiz khan was a shabby old man whose teeth shone like the Sun. He believes. His biology professor teaches him that streptococci cause meningitis. He believes. His moral science professor talks about the miracles performed by Jesus, Sai Baba, Buddha, Mahavira.....he doesn't believe/doubts.

As an atheist I would dismiss anything 'divine' (according to popular opinion) as coincidence, superstition, human psychology, ignorance, etc. But then I realized that believing in a god doesn't hurt. I feel better believing that my god will protect me if the earth decides to split into two & gulp me in. We all die in ignorance. Dying a bit more ignorant won't hurt.

I personally think agnostic is the SMARTEST and most logical way of being. It is the simple fact that nobody knows. I don't believe in miracles performed by Jesus or all the other people. Magicians also perform miracles (to me at least since I never can figure out how the tricks are done!).

You need 'logic'. Our world isn't full of magic and miracles (that go against the grain of physics). When you get wrapped up in the spiritual, then you become delusional and get worse off (like the bad side of Neptune or the Moon)...
 

poyi

Premium Member
Thank you for your reply! :)

It was just in a conversation in which I had with a few of my friends tonight whilst having a drink of alcohol. I mentioned about astrology and they all laughed their heads off and one of my friends said "dude, why do you believe in that star sign garbage, none of it is real, only true is Christianity and that god made the universe and that is all you need to know!!!"

I don't agree........................

My first meeting with God was through studying occult! (Chinese astrology). I saw how the pattern of the stars and their motions affecting our life. I saw the destiny that God had decided for us or us had chosen our own destinies before birth; either way, because of the study of astrology, I really got to know Him a bit better...in a different way.

I look up the starry sky and know that He had created them for us not only for decoration but with Purposes. The ancient astrologist studied the sky and created calendars so then we know the seasons and time that God created for the livings. The more we study about these stars and their cycle/pattern, the more that we know how mighty the creator really is...

To me, to truly know the creator is not by reading the "Book" because sometime people mistranslated and some manipulated the true meanings to suit their own selfish desires and needs. To me, to truly know the creator is to understand His images and qualities through His creations. I prefer the First Hand experiences more :biggrin:. Is like if you have opportunity to interview God why bother reading the commercial newspaper? Not that the newspaper report is not good or incorrect, just not close enough. If you get what I mean.

The Bible itself had mentioned many astrological matters in varies books and chapters.

My other point is by studying the horoscope, you can actually see your own limitations as a human that none of us is perfect that we all have our secrets, our sins and know that we will all die and then leaded us to ask the Most fundamental questions of the meaning of life and the hope of the after life and of course Who is the "He" behind all these events and lives? In a way with good understanding of the chart, you shall humble yourself wholeheartedly. To me a true scientist And an true astrologist won't be able to deny God after all the things they discovered through their studies.
 
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scorpittarian

Well-known member
(1) Is there universally accepted "scientific evidence" evidence that “we all die in ignorance”?

(2) Is there universally accepted “scientific evidence” that “dying a bit more ignorant won't hurt”?


You can have a little less or a little more information about something but it's impossible to know everything about everything. Astronomers are pretty knowledgeable about the universe, it's eight planets, it's various asteroids, etc. but they don't know everything about it. There's so much that hasn't been discovered as yet. Einstein himself was 'possibly' wrong when he said E=MC2. He died in ignorance of neutrinos. I'm a tourism student but if you ask me where on earth a place like Moron is or what it's famous for, I wouldn't know. Historians talk about Marie Antoinette & her famous 'let them eat cake' statement. They too aren't sure what exactly she meant. Literature students & professors wonder if Shakespeare really lived. His works = evidence. Then why this speculation?

Ignorance can cause death but dying ignorant won't hurt. We're born naked & have nothing to lose. I believe that it's not death that hurts but the journey that causes much pain.

You don't need to have a scientific evidence for everything. Do you have any scientific evidence that cold exists? There's scientific evidence that heat exists but nothing can prove cold. It's simply the absence of heat.
 

scorpittarian

Well-known member
I personally think agnostic is the SMARTEST and most logical way of being. It is the simple fact that nobody knows. I don't believe in miracles performed by Jesus or all the other people. Magicians also perform miracles (to me at least since I never can figure out how the tricks are done!).

You need 'logic'. Our world isn't full of magic and miracles (that go against the grain of physics). When you get wrapped up in the spiritual, then you become delusional and get worse off (like the bad side of Neptune or the Moon)...

I too believe that agnostic is the smartest choice. However, I'm pretty torn between my head & heart when it comes to god. I've a Neptune/asc conjunction trine Moon. :annoyed: There's this part of me that still doesn't want to believe in god but I can't really dismiss all that's happened to me. I trust experience the most. If I can experience something, I believe in it.

Logic partly comes from knowledge & lack of/incomplete knowledge can impair logic. Spirituality is something personal. Some would agree that it brings inner content & fulfillment. Others would argue that you can't expect an empty stomach to feel content & full. These are 2 contradictory opinions & opinions can be neither right nor wrong. I believe in the middle path for survival. The spiritual does lead to delusions, superstitions, etc. but not in everyone. Factors such as early conditioning, vulnerability & psychology too come into the picture.
 

retinoid

Well-known member
I too believe that agnostic is the smartest choice. However, I'm pretty torn between my head & heart when it comes to god. I've a Neptune/asc conjunction trine Moon. :annoyed: There's this part of me that still doesn't want to believe in god but I can't really dismiss all that's happened to me. I trust experience the most. If I can experience something, I believe in it.

Logic partly comes from knowledge & lack of/incomplete knowledge can impair logic. Spirituality is something personal. Some would agree that it brings inner content & fulfillment. Others would argue that you can't expect an empty stomach to feel content & full. These are 2 contradictory opinions & opinions can be neither right nor wrong. I believe in the middle path for survival. The spiritual does lead to delusions, superstitions, etc. but not in everyone. Factors such as early conditioning, vulnerability & psychology too come into the picture.

There's a divine presence. However, to what extent this is important is up to each person...I myself believe this world is a lot like a foot ball game. You play it and then go home. But it is still just a game but it DOES affect you even if it is just a game and not the most important thing in your life. And your home could be a different realm, planet, whatever. But this world is not 'it'. In fact it is hardly real compared to everything else! But how much spirituality should you have? Too much is very bad, too little is very bad. Though like I said, I don't know if spirituality plays an extremely important role in the material world (see my curses thread, why are there no miracles with limbs growing back or mentally retarded people getting healed?) There only seems to be miracles where 'chance' is involved...
 

scorpittarian

Well-known member
The definition of spirituality differs from person to person. According to me, being spiritual means practicing love, compassion, forgiveness, tolerance, etc. toward every living being. I feel spirituality plays an important role in the material world. However, you shouldn't attach too much of importance to it. There has to be a balance. You certainly don't want be the next Gadaffi, Saleh or Murdoch. They embody(ied) little spirituality. Nor do you want to end up with a fate like Bin Laden's who went overboard with his religious zeal. According to him & his supporters, Jihad is extremely spiritual.

There was this acquaintance who according to popular stories "miraculously" recovered from some sort of a psychiatric disorder. I never bothered to get to the bottom of the story because I was very opinionated & narrow minded back then. I see your point(chance). You've given me some food for thought.

What I understand is that many people believe in an exalted concept of miracles. According to them, miracle equals raising men from the dead or walking on water. They don't see the barely alive starving pitbull who was rescued from a garbage compactor. They read each & every page of the newspaper but have never come across any Natascha Kampusch. Miracles occur far more frequently than we realize. They don't stare us in the face. We humans are almost always the tool through which miracles are performed by the Universe.
 

retinoid

Well-known member
What I understand is that many people believe in an exalted concept of miracles. According to them, miracle equals raising men from the dead or walking on water. They don't see the barely alive starving pitbull who was rescued from a garbage compactor. They read each & every page of the newspaper but have never come across any Natascha Kampusch. Miracles occur far more frequently than we realize. They don't stare us in the face. We humans are almost always the tool through which miracles are performed by the Universe.

Those are good things happening, but not things that are in the realm of miracles...Just like the sun rising every day is not a 'miracle' as some like to call it. The sun rises every day for good reason. Putting an ice cube in boiling water and it melting is not a 'miracle' neither is heating the water to a boil.
 

Beautiful Ending

Well-known member
Most cities in the UK nowadays mainly consist of 97% Muslims.

Thats a bit of an over exaggeration, 30% of the London population is muslim. The only people you can blame for mass immigration every adult whos voted for Labor and Conservative. Hopefully our Neptune in Capricorn generation will sort it all out!

Nobody can tell you if religion is real, only you can decide what you believe in. Like akp124 I came to the conclusion that at one point there must have been one religion and as the religion spread around the globe the "story" got altered by continent. I don't believe in religion but I do believe there must be a God of some sort, that and astrology kind of go hand in hand.
 

retinoid

Well-known member
Thats a bit of an over exaggeration, 30% of the London population is muslim. The only people you can blame for mass immigration every adult whos voted for Labor and Conservative. Hopefully our Neptune in Capricorn generation will sort it all out!

Though I am open minded, I do believe Islam is one of those belief systems that are not conducive to evolution. Neither is Christianity (Jesus's teachings are just not the religion or old testament or Paul's ramblings). But Islam is clearly a threat to the western lifestyle which is not only different but is indeed better.
 
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