Saturn squaring my Ascendant

Vista

Well-known member
Raven and Vista, one thing I might add to this is that hard transits to my natal Mars, which many transit books suggest may bring great energy that needs to be watched and harnessed in a productive way, etc., usually just debilitate me - I actually feel depressed during bad transits to my Mars, and if anything else, I get hurt (either my feelings or by some accident, such as cutting myself while cooking). My experience is that all hard aspects to a Pisces Mars just weaken it. (But with Raven's observation, perhaps it's because mine is the apex of a Yod?)

On the other hand, whenever I have a hard Mars transit to my natal Sun-Pluto opposition, for example, one best steer clear of me!:devil: (However, I think because my Sun-Pluto is intercepted, I often end up "imploding" and causing myself the most harm.)An amazing parallel, Raven!! (It gave me chills reading that!) This was exactly the case with my mother and father. My father, though physically there, was largely absent from and seemed uninterested in my life - he didn't even attend any of my graduations. My mother, on the other hand, wanted me to be her "surrogate spouse" (a term one of my therapists used), making me accompany her to parties (which mortified me), planning to come live with me when I was going away to university, and viciously demeaning my father to me every chance she could.Again, brilliant deduction, Raven! I am aware of many complex "Mars issues" I need to finally completely embrace, which I've kept mostly to myself throughout the years, which have crippled my self-esteem (though most don't know it), caused me to secretly feel unworthy, vulnerable, too worried about compensating for, all resulting in deep resentments. Yes, it is a rough world for a sensitive man! I scored almost 100% on Elaine Aron's "Highly Sensitive Person" test and others like it - I'm an authority on being a sensitive man! :lol: <<big hug>>This brought tears to my eyes. I've always been my own worst critic, never good at giving myself a break.

However, returning to the topic of Saturn square ASC, I think it's showing me just how wrong this has been, and how I've tried to earn the compassion of others who don't have any to give (I think that's my Capricorn - I must work for it and excel), when I should simply focus on loving myself as I am, while forgiving and truly detaching from those who would hurt me...I can think of a few right away.

I wonder if it's the combination of Mars-Venus-Jupiter that makes hard transits so difficult? That's quite a powerhouse of planets involving the two most benefic planets with a malefic. When you are depressed during bad transits to Mars, perhaps since Venus is involved and the ruler of your Moon, maybe it's more significant? Just a thought. It does seem this stellium is the most strongly felt when I would look at angular Sun/Mer in Aquarius and stable Moon in Taurus as one who wouldn't be quite as sensitive, or rather I would think it would balance the sensitivity out. Believe me, I ponder oversensitivity quite a bit because I have Moon in Cancer in the 4th and it's part of the Water Grand Trine(Kite actually) when I have otherwise pretty "insensitive" planetary placement. Even so, it seems to "rule the roost" so to speak!

It sounds horrible what your mother did and your fathers lack of interest. Imagine living with her own son while he's at University!! How twisted!
 

Vista

Well-known member
Yes, that does make sense, Vista! I hadn't thought of it that way: my Mars is never affected by a transit alone, always with Venus and Jupiter.A few things to consider in understanding why my Pisces stellium is so sensitive:

  1. My Pisces Venus and Libra Neptune are in mutual reception (Venus rules Libra, Neptune rules Pisces), which has something of the effect of a conjunction, I believe. So you might imagine Neptune as part of this Pisces stellium. Super Pisces!
  2. My Neptune is trine my Sun and sextile my Pluto, both of which are intercepted, so Neptune is the only "free" planet in this formation, which Alan Oken called an "easy opposition"; he said that the apex planet (Neptune in my case) is the "resolution" to the problem posed by the opposition.
  3. Neptune is my most elevated planet, which many traditional astrologers say increases the planet's influence in the chart.
  4. My Sun is intercepted, and on another thread, it was discussed that this rather debilitates the Sun. I think it was Raven who said that intercepted Suns can't seem to get any "traction". So my Pisces stellium acts something like an unintercepted Sun for me. I feel more Pisces than Aquarius.
I think my stalwart Moon in Taurus gave me the strength to keep me from completely succumbing to my alcoholic mother's insanity and bullying. I needed years of therapy, and my life fell far short of what it could have been...but my younger brother committed suicide, and my sister became a promiscuous drug addict and ended up in prison.


Oh wow, my goodness!! Hadn't thought of all that!!! Thank you for pointing this out. I have to be more careful when looking at charts. At times I can look on the surface and forget there are many more factors beyonds sign placement and it's aspects. Another consideration with your Sun, it's in a pitted degree(so is my Moon). This is something newer to me so I am not quite certain how detrimental it is to the overall chart, even so, I would think it would add to the negative influence of the interception. Don't feel badly about your Mars, I have an unaspected, retrograde Mars in my natal chart and it rules my ASC. This has been the single most difficult placement for me, something I did not realize the magnitude of until more recently.

I think you have lived up to your potential. You are educated with a career, far better than millions of other people that barely graduate high-school or life-time welfare recipients. Give yourself credit, clearly you have risen above the cards you were dealt as a child. This takes grit and character, something your siblings did/do not have.

Edit: Well darn, I looked at another list for pitted degrees one provided by Dr Farr and both my Moon and your Sun according to his list say they ARE NOT in pitted degrees. Dr Farr's list says 21 for Aquarious and 17 for Moon. The list I looked at earlier said 22 and 16!! So confusing!
 
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R4VEN

Well-known member
The one person I am thinking of with the Grand Cross I spoke of that includes Pisces Mars has several planets in fire signs(Pluto/Jupiter) and another two in water due to late degrees with all three of these planets. His Grand Cross includes Moon/Mer(Gem)-Mars(Pis)-Saturn Rx (Scorpio)-and Jup/Pluto(Leo). I don't think I have ever seen this before but feel it would give a little more grit than a Mutable Grand Cross normally would. Maybe wanting to change everything and yet, keep everything the same?? :unsure: BTW, is mother was rather rejecting and used to throw things at him.

Vista, I would imagine that the fire planets - plus Saturn in Scorpio - would give him some `traction' in his life, but the Pisces Mars - or Piscean/Neptunian Mars still seems to be a `target' for others, moreso for men.

My older son also has a 12th house Mars, but it's in Leo, so he was not nearly so targeted as a child growing up, but his father did reject him for a while because he was `weird'. (I on the other hand, still had to care for him and love him, weird or not!!) Both my sons have Moon in Pisces also, which doesn't help at all. It works a bit like Byron's Pisces stellium and strong Neptune.
 

R4VEN

Well-known member
My experience is that all hard aspects to a Pisces Mars just weaken it. (But with Raven's observation, perhaps it's because mine is the apex of a Yod?)
The apex planet in a Yod is like a lightning rod. What it is you `need' to experience will blast its way in through that apex, which is why transits to your Mars are so so difficult for you.

I may have mentioned around 3 years ago when there was a lot of discussion on AW about yods........Lindy Chamberlain, the Australian woman who had a dingo take her baby in August of 1980 while the family were camping at Uluru (Ayers Rock), but who was gaoled and generally reviled by around 70% of the country's population for being a `baby-killer' has a close Yod with Pluto-Neptune both inconjunct her Pisces Sun :w00t::w00t::w00t: She was a `lightning rod' for all the mother-hatred this country's citizens had bottled up inside them. Her few years in gaol hardened her - temporarily - but she also has an interesting Leo stellium - Mars, Saturn, Pluto. Without that, who knows how she'd have endured what she went through? Keep in mind also that Pisces - sun, moon, mars, venus - can indicate that a degree of personal sacrifice may be required.

Your mother's behaviour towards you was perverse in any way of looking at it. Interestingly, the guy I mentioned earlier whose mother wanted to `own' him still thinks of his (now late) mother with a kind of desperate longing - for her to still be alive, I think. He seems unable to function without a strong and dominating, emasculating woman (which his ex-wife is, and she still controls him) in his life. What hit me as I read your post about what your mother had done was a recognition that the man of whom I speak has now created a sort of role for himself with his 25 yr-old daughter, herself a single mum with 3 small kids......(the oldest of whom is my 6-yr-old grandson, which is how I'm privy to so much of his information.) This man plays `daddy' to her kids and (what really creeps me out) is that he plays `boyfriend' to his daughter. He has no job, and lives on the considerable inheritances left him by dead relatives - his mother's siblings. In between receiving inheritance money, he sponges off others, including his daughter. He is no doubt quite capable, but he believes he is weak because this is what life has taught him.

So, Byron, you have an education and a career which you created all on your own. You are self-aware and highly intelligent, compassionate and passionate also. And what's even more important is that unlike your brother, you are still here!
Byron said:
However, returning to the topic of Saturn square ASC, I think it's showing me just how wrong this has been, and how I've tried to earn the compassion of others who don't have any to give (I think that's my Capricorn - I must work for it and excel), when I should simply focus on loving myself as I am, while forgiving and truly detaching from those who would hurt me...I can think of a few right away.
Thanks for writing that. I needed to read it!! :love: I could have written that myself. I think that what you have written above is one of those positive outcomes of a Saturn square ASC.
 
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Vista

Well-known member
The apex planet in a Yod is like a lightning rod. What it is you `need' to experience will blast its way in through that apex, which is why transits to your Mars are so so difficult for you.

I may have mentioned around 3 years ago when there was a lot of discussion on AW about yods........Lindy Chamberlain, the Australian woman who had a dingo take her baby in August of 1980 while the family were camping at Uluru (Ayers Rock), but who was gaoled and generally reviled by around 70% of the country's population for being a `baby-killer' has a close Yod with Pluto-Neptune both inconjunct her Pisces Sun :w00t::w00t::w00t: She was a `lightning rod' for all the mother-hatred this country's citizens had bottled up inside them. Her few years in gaol hardened her - temporarily - but she also has an interesting Leo stellium - Mars, Saturn, Pluto. Without that, who knows how she'd have endured what she went through? Keep in mind also that Pisces - sun, moon, mars, venus - can indicate that a degree of personal sacrifice may be required.

Your mother's behaviour towards you was perverse in any way of looking at it. Interestingly, the guy I mentioned earlier whose mother wanted to `own' him still thinks of his (now late) mother with a kind of desperate longing - for her to still be alive, I think. He seems unable to function without a strong and dominating, emasculating woman (which his ex-wife is, and she still controls him) in his life. What hit me as I read your post about what your mother had done was a recognition that the man of whom I speak has now created a sort of role for himself with his 25 yr-old daughter, herself a single mum with 3 small kids......(the oldest of whom is my 6-yr-old grandson, which is how I'm privy to so much of his information.) This man plays `daddy' to her kids and (what really creeps me out) is that he plays `boyfriend' to his daughter. He has no job, and lives on the considerable inheritances left him by dead relatives - his mother's siblings. In between receiving inheritance money, he sponges off others, including his daughter. He is no doubt quite capable, but he believes he is weak because this is what life has taught him.

So, Byron, you have an education and a career which you created all on your own. You are self-aware and highly intelligent, compassionate and passionate also. And what's even more important is that unlike your brother, you are still here!

Thanks for writing that. I needed to read it!! :love: I could have written that myself. I think that what you have written above is one of those positive outcomes of a Saturn square ASC.

Excellent advice R4VEN. I am going to look into Lindy's story. I seem to recall something about her. How tragic. As for the man you are speaking of, really all that comes to mind is "ewe."


I dated a man who had a 12th house Mars in Aquarius inconjunct his Uranus/Pluto in Virgo in the 7th house. He hated women and fought with them all the time. He describe his mother as "a slut who tried to rope men into marrying her by sleeping with them." She also lied about who his father was and used to steal luggage from the airport why him and his sister waited curbside for her to come rolling up with luggage.

Byron,
I hope you hear what R4VEN is saying to you!! You created your own path and now you are walking it, albeit with a few bumps in the road you have risen above your lot in life! Your brother and sister are the weak one's, they let life beat them down. You didn't because you are strong yet you have compassion and empathy towards others.
 
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