Delineating Marriage (Medieval Method)

Omnisphericus

Well-known member
Male non married

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This is the chart of Hans Christian Andersen, the very famous writer.
He died at age of 70. He never get married though he was heterosexual according to his diary. It is very intriguing that according to the very same diary he never get involved in sexual act either. He stayed a virgin for the whole life. This is not proved but it may be so.
He was very amorous like and had a longing heart. He fell in love in the 18th years old daughter of his friend. She was not interested in him and ask him to stop his amorous letters.

Mercury is Almuten of Marriage, i.e. Significator of Marriage.
Mercury is combust and cadent in 3rd in the AC-IC section.

The dispositor of the Moon is not aspecting the Moon.
Dispositor of Venus is not aspecting Venus.
Venus is applying to no planet before she changes the sign, but only that Venus with a huge applying sextile.
 

Omnisphericus

Well-known member
Example - Christina Onassis - 4 Marriages

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How do we know that this person would marry 4 times?
There are 4 planets between the Sun and MC!
:)

How did I get this?

Italian Astrologer Grazia Bordoni revealed a document of an unknown italian astrologer who got reading for the nobleman Alfonso D'Este.
You can read the article (with google translate) here:
http://www.armonics2zero.it/index.p...-rinascimentale-la-genitura-di-alfonso-deste/

In the reading the unknown astrologer had predicted to Alfonso D'este that he will have 2 marriages because there are 2 planets between Venus and MC.
Venus is significator for men's chart, but Sun for female chart and this is why in the chart the number of planets between the Sun and MC is showing the exact number of marriages of Christina Onassis.
 

Omnisphericus

Well-known member
Number of Marriages according to Dorotheus

Number of planets between Venus and MC in male chart shows the number of spouses.
Number of planets between Mars and MC in female chart shows number of husbands.
(If Mars happens to be on MC then you take Jupiter instead of Mars).
 

Omnisphericus

Well-known member
Example Living Together Non Married

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Prediction of Marriage in 21st century is a little bit heavier then it would have been in Medieval times. This is because today there are more and more couples who do not accept the official institution of Marriage. They live together but they are not officially married. Such is the example of Oprah Whinfrey and Stedman Graham the chart of who we are giving here.

As you can see, between Venus and MC there are no planets, so the person according to this technique would never get married. This is not always so, but in this particular example it is exactly like that.

"Graham and Winfrey were engaged to be married in November 1992, but later decided they would rather have a "spiritual union."

This is from wikipedia. They still live together but they are not married.

The ruler of DC (where also Part of Marriage happened to be in this chart) is not seeing its place of rulership. In this case it is Venus, which is also in Fall.
It is in aversion to the sign which rules on DC.
Venus is also cadent in 6th.

"But if the Moon were combust and Saturn shall aspect her from the
opposition or square aspect and Jupiter does not aspect her nor does Saturn
receive her, it signifies that the native will not accept a wife."


Moon is combust, Saturn aspect her by Sign Antiscia.

"But if she were joined with Mercury, it signifies that the wife will be learned, well cultivating intelligence."

Moon is with Mercury. Well, Oprah is not his wife, it is his girlfriend, but this description applies to her.
 

Omnisphericus

Well-known member
Incest

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This is the chart of Lord Byron.
On several occasions he was accused for committing incest. Namely, the one that it is proven is with his half sister.

Ptolemy said:
But if in
masculine nativities the Moon were joined with Venus, Mars and Saturn,
it will signify that the native commits incest with two sisters or with two
of his relatives or with those belonging to the kinship of his parents.

Well, Moon, Mars, Venus and Saturn are not joined together, but look how they are grouped in two: Moon and Mars together, and Venus and Saturn together.

"And Ptolemy said, if Venus and Saturn were in signs common to them,
as are Capricorn and Libra the marriage will be between blood relatives.
Moreover, if the Moon were of the aforesaid quality (in its own sign or the signs of Saturn and Venus?) and that quality
shall rule in the Ascendant or Medium Caeli, the native will perform
the venereal act with his mother or step mother or maternal aunt, but a
woman will perform the venereal act and dally with her own offspring or
father or sister's child or with her own kind or paternal uncle or mother's
husband."

astrodatabank gives this event in his data:
Relationship : First Sex 1797 (Age nine when nurse "awakened passions.")

The Nurse is a representative of the Mother.
Striking similarities isn't it?

Example 2
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"And he said that if the Sun should be of this aforesaid quality, and the planets were occidental, the native will commit incest with the daughters of his brother or sister or with his own children."

This is a man who perpetrated incest on his daughter.
Look all the planets in Aquarius:
Sun/Venus/Saturn/Caput Draconis/Mercury/Mars
 

preeshuu

Well-known member
Re: Number of Marriages according to Dorotheus

hi ,

so for males its Venus and for females mars or sun ?

rgds

Number of planets between Venus and MC in male chart shows the number of spouses.
Number of planets between Mars and MC in female chart shows number of husbands.
(If Mars happens to be on MC then you take Jupiter instead of Mars).
 

Omnisphericus

Well-known member
Re: Number of Marriages according to Dorotheus

hi ,

so for males its Venus and for females mars or sun ?

rgds

Well, in my experience it is as follows.
If Venus in male chart is in the IC-AC-MC Section, than you count number of planets between Venus and MC in counter-clockwise motion of the Zodiac.
If Venus is in IC-DC-MC Section, you count number of planets between Venus and MC in the Zodiacal order of the planets.

In female chart you take Sun instead of Venus.
But Dorotheus suggest to look at Mars, or in Jupiter.
Some further experimentation need to be done in this field.
 

Zuri

Well-known member
Re: Number of Marriages according to Dorotheus

Well, in my experience it is as follows.
If Venus in male chart is in the IC-AC-MC Section, than you count number of planets between Venus and MC in counter-clockwise motion of the Zodiac.
If Venus is in IC-DC-MC Section, you count number of planets between Venus and MC in the Zodiacal order of the planets.

In female chart you take Sun instead of Venus.
But Dorotheus suggest to look at Mars, or in Jupiter.
Some further experimentation need to be done in this field.

Tom Cruise's chart shows that he would only have no marriages (his Venus is in the 10th house), but yet he has had three marriages so far? Or am I interpreting his chart (below) wrong?

carte.php
 

Erickaf

Well-known member
Re: Timing of Marriage Example

Bonatti:


Look at the Brad Pit's chart in the post above.
His Almuten of Marriage is Mars.
Venus is Oriental.
Moon is in the 1st Quarter = Oriental.

Brad Pit married Jennifer Aniston in 29 July 2000 when he was 36 years old.

and if she and the lords are occidental and are between the AC and IC or between DC and MC, or in the 2nd quarter of the Moon or in the last (occidental quarters), it signifies that the marriage of the natus is a little postponed and he will marry a little older woman in older years and he will be unfortunate because of women.

Venus and all the planets (except Jupiter) are in AC-IC quarter, Mars (Almuten of Marriage and triplicity lord of Venus and Moon) is occidental. Jennifer was 31 when she married Brad. 31 is really high number of years for a medieval society and they would not classified Jennifer as a girl but as a woman instead.
In one interview Brad said that the years with Jennifer were the hardest years of his life.

In the profected year of December 1999 Sag was the Profected Asc of Brad Pit's chart. This is the same as of the natal chart. In these years the promised in the natal chart is most likely that it should be fulfilled.

Jolie and Brad engaged officially on 12 April 2012 after 7 years of living together.
And this is again year in which the profected Ascendant is on the natal position.
Hey I think Brad's Venus is Occidental not Oriental, or am I missing something here?
 

Omnisphericus

Well-known member
Re: Timing of Marriage Example

Hey I think Brad's Venus is Occidental not Oriental, or am I missing something here?

Hi.
I was going with the Robert Zoller's definition of regarding the inferiors (Mercury and Venus) as "Oriental" when they are behind the Sun (in Primary Motion) and "Occidental" when they are in front of the Sun (in Primary Motion).
He teaches this in his Diploma Course.

What is the logic behind this?
While the Superior Planets are said to be Oriental when they are living the Sun's rays (Saturn and Jupiter 15 degrees, Mars 18 degrees) and direct increasing in speed and strength in their own light they would Rise before the Sun, because they are East from the Sun or in fewer zodiacal degrees (from the right [our left] of the Sun); the inferior planets are direct and are going out of the Sun's rays when they are in the West side of the Sun, i.e. from the left [our right], or in front of the Sun (in later zodiacal degrees). It is a consideration of power. They are technically occidental because they would Rise After the Sun, i.e. will set after the Sun; but they are called "Oriental" in likeness to the power they have when they are direct and going out of the Sun's beams.
They are said to be vespertine when they are occidental to the Sun, and matutine when they are oriental to the Sun (in true sense). Therefore Ptolemy says that Vespertine Inferiors are better then Matutine, because they are on the side of the Sun where they are direct and going out of the Sun's beams.
Going out of the Sun's beams was kind of a strength for a planet. Ptolemy says that this brings "intensity" and Rhetorius advises us to look 7 days before and 7 days after the birth if some star (planet!) is going out of the Sun's beams or into it.
Inferiors goes under the Sun's beams when they are retrograde from the left side of the Sun, i.e. vespertine, and when they are matutine and direct.
But they go OUT of the Sun's beams (planetary strength) when they are matutine and retrograde, and when they are vespertine and direct.
So being Direct and going out of the Sun's beams was said to be the greatest strength of the planet, and because for the inferiors this happens when they are vespertine or in a technical term "occidental", hence Zoller decided to use the term "Oriental" for the inferiors when they are in fact occidental, i.e. rising after the Sun.
It is a tricky mess-up, and maybe you'll need to re-read the post more times to get the sense of it, but once you've got it, the rewards are long lasting :)
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Re: Timing of Marriage Example

Hi.
I was going with the Robert Zoller's definition of regarding the inferiors (Mercury and Venus) as "Oriental" when they are behind the Sun (in Primary Motion) and "Occidental" when they are in front of the Sun (in Primary Motion).
He teaches this in his Diploma Course.

What is the logic behind this?
While the Superior Planets are said to be Oriental when they are living the Sun's rays (Saturn and Jupiter 15 degrees, Mars 18 degrees) and direct increasing in speed and strength in their own light they would Rise before the Sun, because they are East from the Sun or in fewer zodiacal degrees (from the right [our left] of the Sun); the inferior planets are direct and are going out of the Sun's rays when they are in the West side of the Sun, i.e. from the left [our right], or in front of the Sun (in later zodiacal degrees). It is a consideration of power. They are technically occidental because they would Rise After the Sun, i.e. will set after the Sun; but they are called "Oriental" in likeness to the power they have when they are direct and going out of the Sun's beams.
They are said to be vespertine when they are occidental to the Sun, and matutine when they are oriental to the Sun (in true sense). Therefore Ptolemy says that Vespertine Inferiors are better then Matutine, because they are on the side of the Sun where they are direct and going out of the Sun's beams.
Going out of the Sun's beams was kind of a strength for a planet. Ptolemy says that this brings "intensity" and Rhetorius advises us to look 7 days before and 7 days after the birth if some star (planet!) is going out of the Sun's beams or into it.
Inferiors goes under the Sun's beams when they are retrograde from the left side of the Sun, i.e. vespertine, and when they are matutine and direct.
But they go OUT of the Sun's beams (planetary strength) when they are matutine and retrograde, and when they are vespertine and direct.
So being Direct and going out of the Sun's beams was said to be the greatest strength of the planet, and because for the inferiors this happens when they are vespertine or in a technical term "occidental", hence Zoller decided to use the term "Oriental" for the inferiors when they are in fact occidental, i.e. rising after the Sun.
It is a tricky mess-up, and maybe you'll need to re-read the post more times to get the sense of it, but once you've got it, the rewards are long lasting :)
Thank you for these detailed explanations Omnisphericus, your work is much appreciated - particularly since medieval methods can be complex to fathom :smile:
 

wintersprite1

Premium Member
I have deleted a number of responses that have gone off topic. If a member has an issue with another, the forum is not the appropriate venue to vent. Please hit the alarm feature so a moderator is made aware of any problems and can then decide appropriate action.

TK
 

Angels

Well-known member
Originally Posted by Omnisphericus
In Women's chart the Sun is of great importance.

According to Ptolemy we seek to find the Sun in the two Oriental Quadrants: from AC to MC, and from DC to IC, because this signifies that the woman will be married in her youth and that she will take young man in her older years, but not an older husband.

But when the Sun is in the Occidental quadrants (from AC to IC, and from DC to MC), then her marriage is delayed or in youth she will take older man.

If the Sun is from the beginning of Aries till the middle of Taurus,
or from the middle of Leo all the way to the end of Virgo,
or from the beginning of Libra all the way to the middle of Scorpio,
or from the middle of Aquarius till the end of Pisces, and the significator (In women's chart this is the Lord or Almuten of the 7th house) is Occidental, she will marry in old age or with older man.

If the significator is under the Sun's beams, it signifies that she has no marriage.
If the Sun is in fixed sign signifies that she will be married to one man only.
But if in that sign there is Oriental planet, you will judge that the man will be young or that she will marry another one after that.
If the planet is Occidental, then he will be older.

If the Sun is in mutable sign she will have two husbands.
If the Sun is in cardinal sign she will have many men.


what does this theory says about my chart?:sad:
 

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sethi

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Abby83

Well-known member
I don't know if anyone is till looking at this thread but...

I calculated mercury to be my almuten of marriage. It has good aspects in my chart. So that would mean a good marriage? I have one planet between mars and mc indicating one husband? But my sun is oriental in a cardinal sign meaning many lovers and one younger partner when im older, is that correct?
 

Arena

Well-known member
Abby83 and others in here

I've been through what is said here by traditional method of delinating marriages or relationships. I am now 42 yrs old and have had many men - and a few longer term relationships. I would consider two men of those to be my husbands. One of them I married when I was 25 and the other one I am with now for 8 yrs and we have children and are in registered relationship. My first husband was same age that I am and my current partner is 10 yrs younger than me.

This could fit with my sidereal chart, but not my tropical chart by what has been said in here.

By sidereal chart my Sun is in Cancer, a cardinal sign (many men).
By tropical chart my Sun would be in Leo, fixed (one man).

Sun has Mercury and Mars in same sign, following (rising after the Sun) so occidental.

Looking into this statement:
Number of planets between Mars and MC in female chart shows number of husbands.

I would guess we look at the shorter distance between Mars and MC and we count ONLY the traditional 7 planets? Since this is a traditional method.

That would mean I should have only ONE man, since Jupiter is the only traditional planet between Mars and MC. But if counting the outers, there would be more.

But what I do not understand is why we use the Sun - but then count planets between MARS and MC - why not from Sun to MC?

If I count from Sun to MC, that would be 3 planets.
 
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