Chiron/Uranus Opposition and Addiction [Archive]

View Full Version : Chiron/Uranus Opposition and Addiction

Kite

02-27-2006, 03:29 PM

On another astrology board it was theorized that people born with the Uranus/Chiron opposition tended to have addictive personalities. With this aspect so prevalent in charts due to Chiron's orbit, one wonders why this would be.

Personally I have this aspect and have had my bouts with various addictions and most of the people I know have also had their challenges. Before we get visions of seediness (which are inluded in this scenario btw) we must define addiction as any behavior that is compulsive in nature and is used to occupy oneself at the expense of living in the moment with one's entrie presence. This obviously covers a range of behavior.

If we acknowledge that Chiron is the bridge between Saturn and Uranus, then we must ask exactly what are we bridging from and to. I would offer up that we are bridging from personal control to evolving higher self control.

I picture the Tarot card - The Tower, with this concept and here is a link to some channelled content bringing this home within the "Shift" we are involved in today. http://www.reconnections.net/illusion_control.htm

Kite

Arian Maverick

02-27-2006, 03:32 PM

On another astrology board it was theorized that people born with the Uranus/Chiron opposition tended to have addictive personalities.

Before we get visions of seediness (which are inluded in this scenario btw) we must define addiction as any behavior that is compulsive in nature and is used to occupy oneself at the expense of living in the moment with one's entrie presence. This obviously covers a range of behavior.

Who would have guessed it...I also have a Uranus/Chiron opposition! :roll:

Aquarian Maverick

Light

02-27-2006, 09:34 PM

Guess what!! Me three!!

Chiron in Pisces in 4 opp Uranus in Virgo in 10!

Addictive tendencies, Moi :wink: Compusive - yes, Obsessive - yes Addictive - depends on what you call addictive, doesn't it. :roll:

take care

hel

Arian Maverick

02-27-2006, 10:01 PM

I think another club is in order here :mrgreen:

But seriously, I think it would be interesting to examine the exact sign/house placements of our Uranus/Chiron oppositions and see if they relate to the nature of our "addictive personalites" :wink:

By the way, I have Uranus at 5 Capricorn 19'37" in my eleventh house and Chiron at 1 Cancer 54'48" in my fifth house.

Aquarian Maverick

Frisiangal

02-27-2006, 11:35 PM

If we acknowledge that Chiron is the bridge between Saturn and Uranus, then we must ask exactly what are we bridging from and to. I would offer up that we are bridging from personal control to evolving higher self control.
Kite

Or, from proven science to the power of the intuitive qualities? :wink:

F.

Lapis

02-28-2006, 01:23 AM

As Kite mentioned there was this discussion going on at another astrology site. I posted on that one because I too have a Chiron/Uranus opposition. I also posted about how most all of the people younger than myself who have this natally too, (that I've known) are all drug addicts. This is from MY personal experience and I'm certainly NOT suggesting that everyone with Chiron/Uranus opposition will become drug addicts. There......that's out of the way!

Kite, I haven't as yet read through that whole article you left, but will. So what I'm going to say is as usual- based only on my own personal perceptions and experiences. Also, I'm glad you started with topic over here. :)

I think that if you're highly 'Chirotic' to use B. H. Clows' term, then for one thing this indicates that you're highly sensitive. You may wound easily in connection with certain things like cruelty or hate etc. and because of this ultra sensitivity to lower energies, we get wounded. Some of us find it really difficult to live with that highly Chiron like constant pain, and find different things (drugs, alcohol, sex, shopping, whatever...) to end being "mortally wounded" by life!

And with Uranus involved its a dangerous combo with drug use because one can suddenly exit their mortal body through overdose. Or in many cases even worse, the Uranus side plays out more so, and the drug addict fractures their personality in trying to avoid Saturn and then becomes lost within a mental maze of avoidance for the rest of their life. They literally become a different person to avoid the responsibilities and the pain they fear. I'm very aware that this is a pretty extreme situation, but that's what I've lived with and through, more than once.

I also believe that this (and I'm sure there are many others) natal placement with Uranus is showing the rapid increase of all types and levels of mental illness in our world as we're feeling the Aquarian energies more and more.

5th house moon

02-28-2006, 02:22 AM

This is a really interesting thread.

I know two people with Chi/Ura opposition.

Number 1 has Chi in Tau in 3rd/ Ura in Sco in 9th (almost exactly conjunct).

Number 2 has Chi in Ari in 9th/Ura in Lib in 3rd (slightly wider orb than above).

Both are very spiritual people (9th house things intrigue them and they are both '9' life path numbers...purported to be 'old souls') but escape through substance abuse. In knowing them, I think they struggle with the depth, sensitivity and complexity of their respective personalities.

Interestingly enough, number '1' struggles more with addiction- possibly due to the Scorpio influence.

Thanks again for the interesting content in this topic.

Cheers
5HM

sita

02-28-2006, 02:42 AM

Holy ****. I have a chiron uranus opposition, too.
Yes, I think we have a new club here.

Lifetimes of addictions, but also lives of being an addictions counsellor, too.
I've swung both sides on this issue in this life.
I remember picking up smoking as a teenager knowing it would expose me to a peer group that could benefit from my healing counsel. Made friends with the emotionally destitute and spiritually depraved, just to help. And I did. The drugs were just a prop to get my healing love and wisdom into a population where it was needed most.

Now I'm stuck with this addiction and have to mend it for myself. ....Ahh the sweet disappointment of martyrdom, I know it (ouch) to well.. First house PIsces with a very well aspected Neptune. (grand trine mercury and saturn in fire signs)

But no one needs me to smoke now. It's become a major block in my life force, and holds the key to my self mastery. I have to drop it, because it no longer becomes me. It's become my time to turn the wheel one more time, and yes, I am stalling.

Sita.

Lunar Pisces

02-28-2006, 04:13 AM

I have 8th house Chiron in Aries oppo my Libra Uranus singleton in the 1st house. If I take Chiron into consideration, it forms a kite with my air grand trine with that Uranus singleton as the apex.

I had a 2 year addiction to morphine when I was a teen, and was able to kick it fairly easily. I voluntarily went into rehab and I've been clean 20 years now. I think I do have an addicitive personality, but I also can kick addictions almost as easily as I can develop them. My worst in food, because it was hard for a long time to recognize it as an addiction. I mena, you need food to live right? But I have metabolism syndrome (I produce too much insulin, yet my body doesn't use it effectively, causing a lot of problems) due to also having polycystic ovarian syndrome. I can't eat a lot of carbs, or I start craving them consistantly. I end up hungry and cranky all the time and I cannot control my eating. Just like a junkie. But as long as I stay on a low-carb diet, I'm good. I don't even miss the foods I used think I couldn't live without. Abd just like a drug addict, now that I can stop myself from overeating, I can address the emotional and spiritual issues I was using food to cover up.

Another thing that's interesting is that I seem to "get" addiction. I understand the phenomenon on a highly intuitive level as well as from education and my experience. I have done some counseling with addicts before, but not presently.

Even if addiction is assocaited witha Chiron-Uranus conj, I suspect this is a much deeper aspect than just that. I personally adhere tot he idea of Chiron as one's "higher moon" and that aspects to it, even difficult ones, as key to our personal development, especially spiritually.

Kite

02-28-2006, 10:10 AM

Lapis said
I also believe that this (and I'm sure there are many others) natal placement with Uranus is showing the rapid increase of all types and levels of mental illness in our world as we're feeling the Aquarian energies more and more.

Or perhaps the reframing of the term "mental illness" to be less of a catch-all for the society's outcast traits and behaviors and more of a pointer to wholistic imbalances.

I think we've all been far too liberal with our mental illness judgements on others and ourselves. I've spoken a lot about my mother lately and alluded to her strong Lilith personality. The tragedy of her life was that at the age of 15 her sister was killed in a car accident and her father blamed her because she was supposed to turn a porch light on when she came home..she forget and her 14 ear old sister on a date with her 18 year old boyfriend (what was up with that) went looking for her and was hit by a drunk driver, killing her sister instantly.

My mother dealt with parents who could not get over the tragedy. They blamed everybody and everything. They blamed the city they lived in and actually flew the body to their former city and moved with her. The scapegoating never ended and the grief was never processed.

My mother went into a mental institution at age 18 and received electric shock treatments for the "nervous breakdown" she was diagnosed with. She was let out and married my father one year later.

I got to see her inner rage let out on a frequent basis. It was too easy for my father to label her mentally ill and even I took on the mission for my life to "cure" mental illness". Of course, this meant I had to slay the dragons and be the hero by taking on the quest.

My Chiron in 12 in Aquarius (the only air object in my chart btw besides my Ascendant, Lilith and Juno), opposing Uranus in Leo in 6, squaring Neptune in in Scorpio in 9 gave me all the raw matter I needed to set myself on this quest. What combination could be more indicative of mental illness than this?

Well I've come to find out that mental illness is in the eye of the beholder. I think Lapis nailed it on the head when speaking about a mental maze as something many wrestle with as they enter the world of the archetypes unprepared and unbalanced. Maybe the true purpose of the Chiron/Uranus opposition is to become aware of these challenges from a place of compassion (those of us with the Neptune square who have "been there") and a place of understanding as we deconstruct our Saturnian judgements and labels and realize that everything we disdain in others is actually part of ourselves and must be reclaimed in order to heal.

Kite

Lapis

03-01-2006, 01:00 AM

Everyone........pay close attention to not only what Kite is and has been saying lately, but also what he's doing and what it's doing to him, because THAT is Chiron Return at a very high level! You are just plowing through multiple layers of 'stuff' Kite, and like C1 mentioned elsewhere, you are doing this thing it appears with a lot of groundedness and grace. Wow, you so deserve the healings and freedoms that this will bring you. I am greatly moved by your words of late.

Our primary and most intense learning life lessons and karmic 'stuff' comes through our blood family members and us to them. Very much like the Gods/Goddesses of old and all their mythologies!

I can relate in my own way to this thing called 'mental illness' only because if one is psychic/sensitive AND one also travels to some of those archetypal Lands where angels fear to tread :roll: .......then you're walking that magical and dangerous razors edge.

One of the bits of info I recieved back in the early 70's was that 'mental illness' would grow fast and be caused by many different things. This was because we were rapidly approaching the next Age, Aquarius, and Air (mental) sign and age. The game will be played out in air and many will have trouble with this for different reasons early on. (It will improve greatly after 2012 I think.) One of these is simply the profound toxicity in our world, our air, food, water, and now all the electrical and unseen 'waves' of energy (Aquarius) that is bombarding us 24/7. We're having to process and transmute so very much now while living on the cusp.

Kite

03-01-2006, 03:55 AM

Everyone........pay close attention to not only what Kite is and has been saying lately, but also what he's doing and what it's doing to him, because THAT is Chiron Return at a very high level!

Yes - indeed I feel like I've entered the Chiron Zone! It's not totally new though as last year my progressed Sun conjuncted natal Chiron while Pluto transited my Sun. It's just that right now, I feel a new confidence in confronting the same material but coming out with new approaches/ solutions, and using astrology as a roadmap has been invaluable.

The layers are thick and will take awhile. The grounding I think comes from Capricorn on my 12th where Chiron sits in Aquarius. I used to hate the restriction and boundries I felt from cosmic conscioussness - now I feel it was needed and is helping me do this work with the needed safety from too much at one time. I know what that's like and experienced it when I was in my metaphyics group at the age of 21. I was working with Kundalini then and became way too much for me.

I really appreciate the forum members allowing me the space to journal this and to participate and encourage me. I'm trying to share my impressions here so we can learn and experience this together. If what I write seems too personal, then I ask that you see it as a scientist would view it - observable experience. I think that's much better than learning from a book and certainly more human.

Kite

sita

03-03-2006, 01:40 AM

Lunar pisces... where'd you go?????

I want to talk about chiron..........

:cry:

Sita

Empath

03-23-2006, 05:37 AM

Arian Maverick

03-23-2006, 05:40 AM

On the other hand, perhaps my addiction is staying up too late on astrology forums (it's 12:35 am my time)! I keep forgetting that I have to be up at 5:15 am.

LOL! I believe I may have the same addiction...it's 12:40 in my time zone right now!

Arian Maverick

C Jayne

03-31-2006, 09:54 AM

I'm sorry I got to this thread so late. Who-da thunk-it -- I've got that Chiron/ Uranus thing too.

I'm only just beginning to develop a grasp of Chiron, but I've been dealing with Uranus a long time. :wink: The only tweaking I would do of Kite's definition here is to use the word "fascinated" or "mesmerized" rather than "addicted."

I would say I've spent a lifetime being "fascinated/ mesmerized" by healing others and/or finding healing for myself. I grew up in a family of healers who just wouldn't stop, which causes a young person to view themselves, somewhat, as constantly being on the operating table, like we were all playing doctor together, taking turns hopping on and off the table. "Hey! I'll operate on you this time, and then you can operate on me!" "Wait a minute! You told me last week I was going to get my chance to operate on you, and I still haven't gotten my turn..." or something like that. :cry:

My opposition is 2nd house/8th house. For many years of my youth, I was also "fascinated/ mesmerized" by finding the perfect (8th house) sexual partner (I've also got Venus/Mars conjunct in Pisces in 4th). For me there was a lot of self esteem (2nd house) involved in that -- I wanted to feel vindicated somehow, for being as "individual" as I was/am. (Of course, with Mercury in Capricorn, I was pretty Republican in my attitudes about sex -- abundant quantity not peculiar quality.)

For that matter, I'm pretty fascinated/ mesmerized by astrology. I find it weird - titillating - almost dumb-founding -- that knowing someone's time and location of birth can reveal so very much about the stages they are going through and something of the quality of their approach to this life. :|

Just my 2 cents. -- CJ

C Jayne

03-31-2006, 10:27 AM

I am a First house Chiron poster child, if ever there was one. In the past year and a half, I've been afflicted with a strange sort of ...

Hi Empath--

It's the middle of the night for me -- insomnia. Pardon me if I got too involved in your planets... :oops:

I've been looking over your chart, including your progressions. I am so sorry you had to go through such very very difficult stuff. Why can't the Universe just give us a billboard with the lessons instead of being so oblique?

I looked over your progressed chart and found it very interesting. I hope you don't mind me asking some questions here, for the sake of exploring the validity of the astrological shifts.

So, if I get this right, when your Progressed Moon conjuncted Chiron, you got sick. A few months later, Moon rolled on over past Lilith. All of this occurred in Aquarius in your 11th (progressed) house.

I am pretty ignorant about illnesses and signs, but long ago, I read that Aquarius has a tendency to have lung problems, which, at the time, I thought was ridiculous! My lungs were perfectly fine! (I recognized that I have asthma a couple years later. It's mild -- I control it by controlling environmental factors.)

Anyway, your progresed Moon in the 11th house (Aquarius house) and in Aquarius -- maybe that's part of the lung thing?

Also, of course, Aquarius stuff indicates getting along with people. If nothing else, all this horrendous stuff you're talking about with the skin and the hair, etc. etc., would certainly restrain you from being a social butterfly.

Meanwhile, the previous year, you had Prog Sun conjunct Prog MC in Capricorn -- Sun moving (backward), indicating that you had a lot going on in your career? I would think this would make your overall life focus shift from higher learning to defining yourself in the world - ?

Kite has set a stage for being so REAL -- which is certainly the mode I operate in (emotional nudist that I am) -- so if I'm over-doing my Chiron/healer fascination/mermerization here, please tell me! :roll:

--CJ

Empath

04-01-2006, 05:25 AM

CJ~~

Wow! Progressed charts are an area of astrology that I've always skirted around warily. Perhaps it's due to the added layer of complexity they give to reading a chart, probably more so due to the strength and depth of the revelations. I also am new to Lilith, and I see that Lilith is in a close conjunction w/ Chiron and my Aquarian ascendent. Something new to research!

Your assessments are very accurate. All of the physical manifestations have prompted a huge rethink of who I am. I have never been a "looks" person -- raised a humble Catholic, pretty much an earthy natural hippie type, not a fashion maven at all -- but I must be truthful and state that I had a wee bit of pride/vanity in my thick black hair (never dyed or permed), my nails that grew long and perfect w/o any primping, and my small feet.

So what did Chiron do? Made my hair fall out, distorted my nails, swelled my feet. What shred of vanity I had, I had to give up. I still faced the world, make my way, raise my kids, etc., with bald patches, splotches, scales, messed up hands and feet and all. I was the billboard for my life lessons -- my stuff out there, inescapable, for all to see. As much as I wish I that the process were gentler upon me, the life lessons learned are Huge.

Indeed, my maladies quelled the gregarious Aquarian part. I went deeper into that cave. One day, I had a revelation: if I looked people in the eye and acted with confidence, they would return my gaze and would not react to the distortions in my appearance. And, the truth is, that once I went forward in the world, th e world responded in kind, and my symptoms began to subside.

I really feel that I've gone through a door, an initiation of some kind, and things are turning a page. My thick, straight hair is growing in soft and curly, my hands are nearly normal, and my feet are slowly getting better. My lungs are as much about embracing life, loving my Self, and breathing deep of life as they are about asthma, sarcoidosis or whatever the drs. might say. We are all our own physicians; our level of comfort with our physical vehicle is an ongoing dance and dialog.

This is the ultimate lesson of Chiron -- we inflict our wounds and we heal ourselves. I look different that I did 2 years ago, yet I am still me, and now so much more than I was before because of what I gave up of myself. The glorious hair and pretty little hands don't define me; my actions and energy and good intent define me.

You are also right on about the career thing. My company closed in November. By that time, I had taken the time to define myself and resolved to get a position truly commensurate with my talent and experience (I'm a technical writer). I turned down one offer in January -- which was an accomplishment. Turning down work -- even if the job was not up to par -- clashed w/ my working-class upbringing. But holding out paid off -- I started a new job Feb. 20 that offers a lot of growth, new technology and content (Law and Finance; how appropriate for a progressed Sun/MC in Capricorn!), and finally the big bucks!

Thank you, CJayne. It's been an epic journey. I am very grateful that I found this board -- we all help each other with our learning and processing.

C Jayne

04-01-2006, 05:54 AM

Cool.

Glad I helped! 8)

-CJ

Empath

04-01-2006, 07:14 AM

Meanwhile, the previous year, you had Prog Sun conjunct Prog MC in Capricorn -- Sun moving (backward), indicating that you had a lot going on in your career? I would think this would make your overall life focus shift from higher learning to defining yourself in the world -

I worked the last 6 years for an educational software developer -- before that, for a localization company -- both emblemic of ninth house higher learning/foreign interactions!

And now I work for a company that develops business intelligence cubes (literally, the algorithms are multi-dimensional as opposed to 2-dimensional spreadsheets) for law firms! How Capricorn is THAT!!!

Kite

04-09-2006, 06:11 PM

OK - so now that we've begun the unpacking of the Chiron-Uranus opposition in terms of it playing a role in addiction or at least in wanting to build awareness and ultimately freedom from the dynamics causing the pain (we have done that haven't we ), then lets take another turn on the road and look at another factor - Pan.

For you Tarot fans out there, Pan is pictured on the Devil card as the Goatish figure that lives out in the woods and inspires Pan-ic in people that walk through as he trolls for pleasure (Pan is a pretty horny devil ).

I have alluded above and elsewhere in the forum that I believe the pain involved in addiction is related to the separation from source we all feel as we incarnate into 3D. Pan in the chart could show where/how this separation plays out as part of the myth shows Pan escaping from one of the other Gods by jumping into a stream (of unconsciousness maybe) and turning his goatlike body below the water into a fish (so Pisces like). Relates very well to our own Peter Pan story of not wanting to grow up and playing forever in the dreamlike state.

I'll go first. I have Pan (Object 4450 at astro.com) at Sabian 22 Aries in my 2nd house. The Sabian reads:

22__(22°)
GATEWAY OPENING TO THE GARDEN OF ALL DESIRED THINGS Joy and utter lack of inhibitions in objective life. Self-exaltation or bondage to the craving for happiness.
___*When positive, the degree is a high quickening to every possibility of individual discovery and experience, and when negative, a tendency to while away the years in contemplating the things which might be claimed for the self rather than making any real effort to gain them.

The only aspect to Pan I have is a trine from my unaspected Sun in Sag in 10. I have always wrestled with this weak sense of self and have fondly wished I could go back to a time when I was very young when I felt a very strong sense of who I was and how much I belonged in this world. Everything was beautiful and in it's right place. Every person I met I could sense their soul and beauty. Of course all of this changed as I moved more into the 3D reality. I must have hovered for quite some time. As I've said before, I did not speak until I was over 3.

So hear I have Pan contacting my ego center that feels pan-icky about not feeling this authentic sense of self. The panic then reaches out for whatever can feed the happiness craving. In the 2nd house we have the illusion (Pisces on the cusp) of money relieving unhappiness as well as sex (Mars in Aries conjunct the Moon and Ceres in 2 as well) and of course drugs with Pisces on the cusp and the conjunction receiving a yod boomerang from Neptune and Pluto with Jupiter (overdoing it) opposing.

Interesting how it takes an obscure asteroid or object in space to provide the missing piece to the overall puzzle of all these many aspects. I believe the Tarot card that follows the Devil is the Tower if I'm not mistaken. The Tower represents the lightning flash of understanding that takes down the false constructs. I can see where this realization of the how the heart of my chart has been creating more pain from the original pain and how it has limited me (chained) to this quest for false happiness. I also believe this is directly related to my developing Diabetes.

Louise Hay explains the spiritual cause of Diabetes as the inability to accept the joy of the moment. Obviously if one feels a lack of happiness and is constantly craving the temporal things to "fix" it, then of course one would not be in an accepting mode of what is already there. She gives an affirmation for this: This moment is filled with joy. I now choose to experience the sweetness of life.

I will begin to be very mindful of this based on lightening zap and look forward to the next card. The Star.

Kite

Missa

04-09-2006, 06:31 PM

I have Uranus in Sagittarius opposite Chiron in Gemini. The joy of T-crosses when I have Asc/Mars/Venus in Virgo... :roll:

Lapis

04-10-2006, 01:38 AM

Kite,

Yippie, your Sun isn't unaspected after all!!!

Thanks for the Pan (4450) info. Being a Cap I've always been drawn to that archetypal energy anyway. After running over to astro.com and adding your 4450 Pan number, I discover that he's in my second house at 11 Taurus. I now discover that I have something in my previously empty 2nd house with nothing else in Taurus. I don't even know what all Pan in Taurus indicates but I'm happy to discover this! Isn't this weird?

Thanks, and your endless personal insights are so amazing and wonderful.

Kite

04-10-2006, 01:46 AM

Lapis,

Start with the Sabian

42__(12°)
YOUNG COUPLE WALKS DOWN MAIN STREET, WINDOW-SHOPPING Inner interest in outer life which leads to whole-souled participation and achievement. Self-projection. Estimation
___*When positive, the degree is high ability in presenting the immediate potentialities of human achievement and the consequent self-realizations, and when negative, self-depreciation and a dismissal of all really desirable things as beyond actual acquisition.

Sounds like financial limitation.

Jeremy

03-30-2008, 02:16 PM

Hope there are no objections to having this old thread resurrected; I want to join the club; well actually, to talk about my own experience, which is not extensive, but pertinent, I think.
I have the Uranus/Chiron opposition; Uranus sits just below my Asc in the 12th at 25 Virgo with Chiron just before the Dsc in the 6th at 26 Pisces; the aspect is just less than a degree from partile. I haven't paid it much mind really, mostly because my grasp of Chiron issues is not so good; I'm maybe a couple of chapters into Melanie Reinhart's "Chiron and the Healing Journey" which seems interesting enough, if a little forcibly highbrow in parts (to no real purpose). She talks about how Chiron represents the reintegration of mind and body, in a reinterpreted shamanic paradigm: I'm struggling with the book a little, because it is not written to be particularly transparent; rather like one of those people who is clever and is determined that everyone else needs to know it? That's how I feel about it anyway.

But I digress; as I was saying, I have always struggled to see the influence of Chiron by opposition in my own chart, but this discussion has been highly illuminating; I particularly noted the mention earlier about being wounded by our own extreme sensitivity; that resonated for me, quite fiercely in fact.

My life has been very Uranian would be my guess, I worked for many years as a web developer for Nortel through a third-party and built telecomms software systems for them which represented a huge financial reward for a lot of people; 3 years ago it all seemed to work out for me, I was facing a tax bill of nearly $150k, and I was anticipating retirement at 37, all because of the technology solutions I had built and retained a financial stake in. Just as the payments were due - and these are payments for almost 6 years of continuous work, and I'm not talking a 40 hour week here either - my employer pays someone else to hack my software, copy it, rewrite it so that it's slightly different (this for legal reasons) and then cut me off without a penny. Of course, because I haven't got my agreed pay-off yet I have no money to fight it; I did hire a lawyer and spent the last of my own money trying to get him to play fair, but he had a lot of money and I had almost none so it was a final futile gesture really.

And that was that. I kind of crashed and burned after that, gave up anything to do with programming and software, and within days of the final judgment and my giving up on all of it, I was burgled and had my 2 laptops stolen; then all my electrical equipment started to break down, hard-drives crashed, phone broke, you name it actually, and my entire career in computers just died almost overnight.

I changed my entire outlook, got into meditation, running, wrote a book of philosophical musings about the divide between science and faith (which is an interest I always had) and suddenly became incredibly open and sensitive, like I was when I was a kid; I can't even begin to explain how different I was.

So like I say, I wasn't really relating to my Uranus Chiron opposition much until I read this thread, and suddenly it all becomes clear. My Uranus in Virgo (and let's face it, that's the computing placement if ever there was one) was a completely one-sided influence in my life and it very suddenly (Uranus again) polarised and switched (opposition) to a very contemplative, sensitive, meditational mode of living (Chiron in Pisces) and I actually rejected my Uranus in Virgo almost outright.

It's a revelation! Probably no big deal when you have the gift of objectivity but that's the way of things, we struggle to see what's right in front of our noses! Now I just need to find the happy balance I guess; anyone know how to find the equilbrium between Uranus and Chiron?

Thanks guys :)

Svencanz

03-30-2008, 04:41 PM

Jeremy,

I, too, am new here. I wondered why I suddenly felt like "talking astrology" - not having done so for over a year, and basically stopping taking clients.
Turns out transiting Sun/Mercury conjunction was trining my Chiron-Uranus opposition, which is trined by Mercury on the other side...
I, too, was a computer programmer in a past life: your experience sounds fabulous. Just want to ask if you have considered Neptune as the ruler of electricity (this comes from Magi Astrology). Sounds to me like your computer blow-up situation might be a "Neptune gone awry" event.

In general, I think that if your Chiron-Uranus opposition is isolated - not having and easy outlet as I do via my Mercury aspect - then one trick could be to "natalise" a beneficial aspect into the opposition. As in starting your new night classes in pottery on a day when Jupiter is trine Chiron, or Uranus, in the construct. Or conjuct, etc. That ought to work.

mdinaz

03-30-2008, 05:17 PM

I was doing some research lately and came upon a story in the paper about how 21 men were arrested for child pornography. The story provided mug shot photos and the birthdays of all involved. I did the charts of all of them to look for correllations, and one that I found was all had Uranus/Chiron oppositions (no, not implying that Uranus/Chiron opp makes one a child molestor). For these men, child pornography was their addiction. There were other aspects involved of course, such as major squares to Venus and Mars and to the Uranus/Chiron oppositions.
Perhaps then, the Uranus/Chiron opposition then is actually just a trigger, forces an over reaction to personal wounds, in which whatever the wound was, causes one to over compensate into another area of life and leading to an addiction or obsession with some thing - sex, drugs, whatever. For those in child ****, the wound was usually abuse of some sort, which can be borne out in the chart with other aspects. It would seem then whatever house the Uranus/Chiron opp occupies then may indicate either where the wound stems, or to where the addiction will lead. Because I only have birthdays and not times to the charts, I cannot plot that. If someone here is willing to share their Uranus/Chiron addiction here, telling us what the possible wounds may have been and what the addiction was, plus the house placements, it could be very illuminating.

Jeremy

03-30-2008, 06:57 PM

So Sven, you evidently attribute your Ura/Chi opposition with some astrological leaning. I have heard that Uranus rising gives an astrological disposition, and the Chiron influence would certainly promote the idea of helping others, and I think for me that might be the key to it, because my feeling is that the Uranian energy can be discharged through others in some way; specifically through sacrificing the individualising impetus of Uranus and helping others to discover their uniqueness instead.

For myself, the only aspects that are particularly urgent other than Uranus rising and Chiron descending are a tight inconjuct between Chiron and Jupiter, which is hardly useful; it's probably as much work to contend with as the opposition itself!

I just looked at the transits for the period where all my kit went kaput, and Pluto was in exact square to Chiron at that point, thus tweaking the opposition, I guess that would be it, as I'm very Pluto sensitive as a rule: lots of Scorpio, Pluto rising, blah, blah. Otherwise, my Chiron is in Pisces, and thus ruled by Neptune, so the Pluto transiting square may have had a Neptunian colouration for that reason alone: how interesting!

I've heard the theory about Uranus/Chiron and child abuse before, but it seems tricksy to me because I simply cannot work out how it would manifest. Psychologically, addiction has no essential focus after all, that part is entirely random, most everyone who is not in the habit of maintaining self-awareness is to some extent addicted, even if it is to something non-harming; because they have no interrupt between impulse and action: that is addiction after all.

I suppose there is a tendency for Uranus to tend toward perversion in its lower vibration and maybe the opposition to Chiron might make vulnerability resonate within that perversion, and since children are most openly vulnerable they could be singled out as the focal point for the negative Uranian energy in that way; that is the best I can come up with. It's also worth adding that the Chiron Uranus opposition was common between 1952 and 1989, which means that there are a whole bunch of people between the approximate ages of 19 and 56 who will have it; statistically therefore, it's not so unlikely that a good proportion of sexually active males will have it.

What I do think, is that it's a dangerous statement to make, like finding the criminal gene, it's positing a rather broad generalisation with a lot of potential stigma attached; my guess would be that the safe bet would be to look for better specificity when bringing the subject up. Also, what is the higher vibration of the aspect? That would be more useful after all. But I do see that it has a generational effect; and that ought to be explored. I don't think it's wrong to say that the current generation has a more addictive flavour than previous ones, not just in immoral sexual predilections, but also for drug abuse, obesity, selfishness; but maybe that is just the more open manner of life these days; alcoholism has been a problem ever since alcohol was invented after all, so maybe there is just more acceptance, or even apathy about it; keeping up appearances might not be the big deal it once was?

Svencanz

03-30-2008, 07:34 PM

Very quickly,

I think the Chiron-Uranus discussion will be an important one for our time; freedom and liberation from wound it a great one.
Our whole society is essentially addictive: some addictions are condoned by society, like shopping, consumerism, fashion fetishes. Other addidtions are not. The Chiron-Uranus opposition is a generational aspect, and it would be difficult to give it much personal value in a chart unless connected to a personal planet or angles.

Also, Jeremy. Magi Astrology would have something very different to say about your inconjunct - quincunx as I like to call it. Jupiter quincunx Chiron; and Jupiter quincux Uranus are included in the so-called Super Aspects - especially in they are bi-directional. Ju/Chi means Super Charisma; Ju/Ura means Super Fame. Having those aspects does not mean "this will happen to you" - but rather the potential for it happening is there.
Essentialy, if you have Jupiter in quincunx to the opposition, it turns out to mean: Super Charisma (or Career) in Computers, Astrology or Aviation (or anything technical, bu virtue of Uranus); it is a very good construct.

Jeremy

03-30-2008, 08:10 PM

Sven,
Fascinating, really; where can I find out more about Magi Astrology?
(When you have some time...)

Cheers amigo,
Jeremy

Moulin

03-30-2008, 08:15 PM

http://www.magiastrology.com/

http://www.jupitersweb.com/jupiters%20web%20index.htm

mdinaz

03-30-2008, 08:18 PM

Very quickly,

I think the Chiron-Uranus discussion will be an important one for our time; freedom and liberation from wound it a great one.
Our whole society is essentially addictive: some addictions are condoned by society, like shopping, consumerism, fashion fetishes. Other addidtions are not. The Chiron-Uranus opposition is a generational aspect, and it would be difficult to give it much personal value in a chart unless connected to a personal planet or angles.

That was my point - it acts as a trigger, but requires supporting elements (such as hard aspects to other personal planets and angles). Many people will have a Uranus/Chiron opposition, but few people will have the opposition within 1 degree, or have Uranus simulataneously opposite Chiron and square the Moon and conjuct the IC, for example. Those with the Uranus square Moon and conjuct the IC may not have the addictive personality without the Chiron opposition to act as a trigger or outlet of that other negative energy.

Moulin

03-30-2008, 08:40 PM

Svencanz

03-30-2008, 11:02 PM

mdinaz,

Sounds to me like you've got a great premise for an astrological investigation right there. The Chiron/Prometheus (who relates to Uranus) dynamic is one of breaking the shackles, redefining, journey to underground (death) and resurrection. Questions would be in hard aspects somehow derail this process, while supporting aspects might make easier. I am very grateful fo my Mercury trine here. I can write 10,000 words per day with my nose tied behind my back. I am getting the feeling that hard aspects could act as a red herring here in a way: as in, I'm supposed to do this consciousness process, but instead I'll siphon off the energy in this direction, if that makes sense?

mdinaz

03-31-2008, 05:48 AM

Seeing some interesting things here. I did a search looking for how often there is a Uranus/Chiron opposition, and how long these periods last. If it is truly generational, then it should occur with some regularity. It does - however, how long those periods last is the most interesting thing.
I scanned to see how many times there is a Uranus/Chiron opposition, ocurring within 7 degrees - the extremes at which I think it would have any affect, even with a supporting hard aspect. During the 20th century, from the period beginning in January 1951 until June 1990, there were 39 periods in which there was a <7 degree opposition of Uranus to Chiron.
The next earlier generation doesn't occur until 1845 - and it only happened THREE times - versus 39 for the 20th century. The next earlier generation before that occurs in 1742 - and only for FOUR occurrences.

To wit:
1951-1990 39 periods
1845-1847 3 periods
1742-1745 4 periods
1606-1609 5 periods
1506-1508 3 periods
1403-1407 5 periods
c. 1267 4 periods
c. 1164 4 periods
c. 1055 7 periods

Even going into the future:

c. 2095 3 periods
c. 2200 6 periods

Only during the 20th century is there so many occurences of this unique
aspect. I'll research further back to see if it does indeed happen anytime during recorded history.

strangeronearth

03-31-2008, 07:05 AM

Unbelievable. I'm really learning here! My Chiron (20'09" degrees Gemini end of 4th house) is DIRECTLY opposing my Uranus at 20'44" Sagittarius at the end of the 10th and I am a recovering addict. Well, I hesitate to say that I've recovered because I've never been to rehab or a support group and my therapy consists of blocking out suicidal thoughts, exercising, occasionally drinking, and remaining cognizant of those less fortunate. Pretty weak treatment, but in overcoming a RAVENOUS cocaine habit I've found that the nature of my thoughts have been distorted and intensified so greatly that I can't even trust myself to seek help. I'm suspicious of my motives. For example, I would RELISH the attention addicts receive in rehab; the spotlight, feeling special & troubled. And I'm sure that I would be self-consciously dramatic in therapy.

Aside from that though, I have to say that this aspect fosters CHRONIC boredom and a constant need for stimulation. I haven't really found a cure for that.

http://www.astro.com/cgi/showgif.cgi?lang=e&gif=astro_w2gw_01_jordan_hp.20648.27475.gif&res=63&va=&cid=2xhfileQ4Irs6-u1139082481

Svencanz

03-31-2008, 08:12 AM

Astrodawn

03-31-2008, 09:58 AM

Hi All

I have an exact opposition and do become addicted to most things.

Uranus 14.51 (2nd H) virgo
Chiron 14.33 (8th H) pisces

I think I experience this as money going out of my hands faster than the speed of sound due to constant unexpected events, but at the same time I always have bits of windfalls and winnings to cover the unexpected money outgoings! So im never any better off but I always manage to get out of bother just at the last minute! This has been constant in my life.

example 3 weeks ago in serious bother with shortage of cash, 5 days before I was about to summonsed to court my b/f won some money and gave me £1000. This covered my shortfalls and ive got £50 left!

Dawn :)

tsquare

03-31-2008, 11:18 AM

Wow, I didn't know so many had this aspect.
I have it as well.
Chiron, 10H taurus, opposite uranus, 4H scorp.
both square moon conj asc in leo.

chiron sextiles sun and merc. in 12H cancer
uranus trines sun and merc. in 12H cancer

I still don't know what to make of it....
I have heard that chiron in the 1othH can often be described as not beig able to understand how something works untill one explains it to another...then one gets it....I have noticed that to be a major aspect of my personality..but alot of people are like that...arn't they??

Interesting to hear the abuse aspect, of this aspect.....
I'm not sure what to make of that, quite often the abused become abusers of something......they either take it out on themselves, drugs, or on others, violence......this doesn't always happen though....drugs have become the socialy acceptable way of killing oneself slowly, taking away unwanted sensation. People who do drugs often have experiences of being far too cool about things and then they snap.

I like kids, and I don't like to see them become punching bags, and really, I have spent time trying to get people out of abusive situations and mindsets. Some times I have been sucessful, sometimes not. There is only so much one can do.

quite a few people with this aspect will have it in scorpio.

Come to think of it.....I don't have this aspect in scorpio...thats sidereal..I have it in the 0 degree of Sag..

I don't even drink. People have asked me why I don't and if I had a problem, and i have had to say, why do I have to have a problem before I decide to do or not do something, or anything?...that aspect of people I often find odd...they seem to "need" problems. Why? What are they avoiding.
Being a problem solver is interesting....but needing them....why?
Problems are just 2 things in opposition that shouldn't be.
Either in ones own universe or the physical.
There is some relation between the mental and physical universes but they are not the same thing....I still get these two planes colapsed form time to time......
Conditions are how things are now.
It's often hard not to confuse the two, problems and conditions.

Sometimes I wonder if it is purpose, or the goals of purpose.....mabie chiron destroys purpose..or shows a place of ones loss of purpose, StiLL, one can regain purpose.
People that are not on purpose, their own, often are boared.
I can understand that.

I have had blocked purposes before, some still are....gradually working on those...there is still some avoidance in me(not all things are easy to confront in oneself and it often takes a gradient basis), I do work with holistic therapies, and I have a loathing dislike of modern psychology when it classifys as its primary goal. What is the purpose of classification as a goal, other then to fix one with a label or a condition that "nobody can do anything about" It does often cause one to identify with the condition, creating it into a problem that one must get rid of....mabie identifications with problems, or conditions, is the main problem....mabie we shouldn't make negative aspects of ourselves, even posoitive aspects of ourselves into a fixed part of who we are as an identity.
Talk like, "Hi I'm Jim, I'm a drug addict"....sometimes people talk too much about their problems.....enough to drive themselves into an apathy, where they "feel better".
Baahhhh!!!:mad:
I dont think addictions have to be a lifelong, living day to day struggle.
Something one must burdon forever.
Mabie it's just simply an identity problem, and people have had success with drugs and they have solved their problems with them in the past, so they become survival solutions, good things to do always..ways to "get through" life..automacies.....ways to cope.

I find Eft (emotional freedom techniques) to work extremely well for adictions, it helps to remove the compulsions of drugs, by removing the initial decision to take drugs and the initial problems that were posed.
It resembles a psycotherapy, but that is a slightly superficial look at it.
It is an energy therapy, somewhat as well, dealing with the meridains of the human body, release points of tension and trama.....Having trauma in the body, or it's mind, or your mind, can often cause it to not heal, or grow, or function in an optimal basis.

Quite often people start to oppose taking drugs in themselves, and then it becomes a personal game that one fears finishing, because then one will not have a game any longer.....often there is confusion in peoples lives before they took drugs often spoting that and solving that in their own universe will solve the game of DO/Do Not, use drugs, that they have created for themselves to have.

Eft Helps with internal battles, and it's free, and one can do it oneself....
People have had alot of sucess with it in the area of drugs, and adictions, and obsessions, as well as jumbled thoughts, trouble comunicating...There is a whole list things people have overcome because of it....drugs are blockages.....EFT is a good way of releiveing those blockages as well as the pent up emotions and thoughts that often themselves can cause illnesses of different sorts.....It often works very quickly, often people expect things that work to be complicated, yet, often enough, the truth about effectiveness is the opposite.

I recomend eft to anyone who has any type of addiction, It is not hipnosis, moreso reverse hipnosis.....I believe the founder has studied NLP as well.
NlP has been used for peoples dirty purposes as well, Ross Jefferies used it for the sole reason of getting woman to sleep with him, he even sells courses.......bad form Ross.
I'd rather liberate people then enslave them....
Still many are afraid to leave their cages....
I think it's natural for many to fear leaving an enviroment that they are used to, even if it is a bad one, subjective or objective.
There are many instance of this, woman who wont leave abusive husbands, etc. etc....sometimes it is just simply they don't see how they can.....restrictive belief systems, and there are those as well who don't want people to be able to strip their own restrictive belief systems.....once again....bad form....they often get the Bird from me.

Belief systems are OK as well.....I'm not entierly a big fan of them personally....I like to move as far to truth as possible, depending upon the subject matter......games are still fun....it's nice to have a variety to choose from instead of just being hooked into playing those that have become obsessive......Sounds scorpio don't it.
Most games do decend into becoming obsessive.
Win Win games are fun too.

One interesting thing about thoughts as well, thoughts are really just things.

If a person has thoughts that are bothering them, try making the thought bigger and smaller, louder and quiter, untill one has some controll over then....another thing is to spot the location of the thought, when it was, where it was, and COMPARE that to where you are now, where you are now, this can have a distimulating effect of a cronic thought that is fixed on the present, by puting it where it belongs, often in the past....
In short find the thoughts LOCATION.

past present future.....
sometimes people even place their thoughts in their future in their mind as well......so that is something to keep in mind....when asking someone look at their future...they will often have a fear of the past that is placed in the future! It is in their mind. but they have to find this out for themselves by looking for themselves.
Often the realization that a fear of the future has to do with a past incident, a realization they have had for themselves by looking for themselves, will have a very very destimulating effect on the individual, it will place the incident back into the past, and they can relieve it from there instead of ducking this ghost in the future...our thoughts, and our minds are interesting tools in creating our futures and realities...subjective and/or objective.

Sometimes just asking an individual how big a thought is, what is it's size?, or color?, or sensation?, Where is it compared to now? when is it compared to now? will have a destimulating effect, it will take the person out of the memory that has been accessed and brought up to the blurry section of the concious awareness.....
It will help to split the time between the past and present and future up so the person can use the three tenses more afflleuntly.
Creating our futures is about being able to use the past, present, and future, instead of being used by the past present and future...and our minds.

Minds are the missing step in education that we often never had the oppertunity to learn early on in school. TO me that is a sad aspect of education.
Everyone has a mind.
Not knowing about th mind is asking for problems.
The more people know on how to use the mind and all it's faculties...the less the mind will rule over and controll them and their existence...of course there are those that don't want people to know about the mind or how it works.....I think it is wise to question their motives.

It is OK to have aspects of the mind on automacy, but man.....people need to know how to turn that thing ON and OFF at least.
Mind Controll is a good thing, when it's you controlling your own.
THe mind is the Forerunner of all things....thats buddah talk.

Removing the shackles of the "Subjective Mind" is a very liberating experience.
It allows one to actually use it.

Another interesting thing about thought is that there is thought transferance....sometimes when I handle a worry or issue of my own...it is interesting to see the calm of the people arround me....Sometimes I wonder if I am not cleaning up the concections I have to other people as well.....it is a telapathinc universe, or so they say...(laugh)...we are all conected, in som form of field, cleaning up the jammed lines can be fun. ther have been times where I have worked on a worry I have had about certain individuals, from the past, that I have chased down from present worries...worries that I thought were of here and now...which weren't.... and then when I am done, 10 minutes later the phone rings and there they are..the individual or individuals...sometimes, oddly, to apologise...people I haven't seen for years....it's odd really.....no animosity....no enemies....I ask them why they call, and they just say, "I dont know, I just got the idea to call you, how have you been"...Like I said....I havent spoken to some of these people in years....the relationships initially ended roughly...The new conversations do not seem to contain anything negative of the past...and no need to supress animosity, uinexpressed resentment on either end....it's odd, but enjoyable....still its a weird feeling....no enemies. I have been wondering how things will go from here....

If one wants to get astrological about this I could say that it may have something to do with chiron in aspect to merc by sextile.......but I don't know.....either way I had/have to do the work.(laugh)
No Karma God came, or has come, down to clean up my mess of Comunication lines, or past fumbled relationships...wheither they were of my fault, or not,(probably doesn't matter which) and I'm still not done.
THat I beleive is one form of divine right to action.....I never had to do a **** thing about anything....but I have,.... and It's been worth it.
Alot of things are starting to straiten out and fall into place, past wise, present wise, future wise, people wise.......things are looking up.

I find telapathy, both passive and active, VERY VERY interesting....

===========
Mabie the reason for the increase in chiron's apearance in aspect to uranus, may have something to do with all the unnatural deaths that have happened in recent history, due to war, or famine.........the numbers in war, the world wars, are sickening.
Just a guess....but all those people have to come back sometime or go somewhere..................
I hear some come back quick...some stay out if the game for a while....just depends....on what I'm not sure...personal choice mabie?? pick your theory or have ones own experience.
Who knows.?.

Just a thought/mabie/I'm not sure....

Tsquare

hmmm...I hope I haven't gone off the boards here....it's late, and I've been up a while....that's how it seems to go..took a light scan...doesn't look to bad.......post something and 3 days later look at it, and find yourself in absolute horror.(laughing)

should I shouldn't I, should I shouldn't I(anybody else do this?)
***** it....
posting......

Jeremy

03-31-2008, 01:11 PM

Well, the addiction angle is interesting isn't it?

I smoked a lot of weed between the ages of 17 and maybe 25, but that's as far as it goes for me (but when I say "a lot" I actually mean "a LOT", so there you are). Ironically, I'm quite rigorous about health these days, but that is apparently quite common for Chiron in the 6th.

I'm still reading Melanie Reinhart's "Chiron and the Healing Journey" but here are some highlights for our collective edification, along with a few other points of interest...

Zane Stein has noted that "The midpoint between Saturn and Uranus is a 'Chiron sensitive point' on the chart. This means that any planet or angle on that midpoint will behave as though it is aspected to Chiron."
Chironian charts are denoted in the same way that sensitivity to any of the transpersonal planets is indicated, angles, conjunct or square the moon's nodes, many aspects (esp. to Sun, Moon or Asc), focal (such as the handle of a bucket, or in the centre of a stellium), with Sag. or Virgo rising or the MC, with Chiron in either Sag. or Virgo or if the chart shows a stellium in either Sag. or Virgo.
She believes Chiron to be the co-ruler of Sagittarius and the 9th House, thus detriment in Gemini (3rd), exalted in Virgo (6th) and falls in Pisces (12th).
She points to Chiron being the planet of sacrifice: and this can mean self-sacrifice; thus it has a pressing familiarity with suicide. She states that: "I have sometimes heard people express suicidal feelings during strong transits affecting the Chiron configuration." This is because we unconsciously identify with things that need to die in order for us to move on in our lives, which we "externalise ... into our feeling suicidal".
Chiron "symbolises things which we can do for others, but which we cannot do for ourselves." I get this! I can do the dishes at other people's houses for example ;)
They represent areas of life in which we struggle with futility and have to learn to eventually give up. This is in keeping with the Chiron myth, he was wounded by the poisoned arrow, struggled to learn the healing arts in order to cure himself, found that he could not (but turned that healing knowledge to the service of others) and eventually relinquished his immortality in order to escape his torment. Someone with Chiron in the 10th may have to learn to give up their career before they will find their career! That's the practical application of this understanding.
Chiron represents 3 separate principles; The Healer, the Wounded One and the Wounder. It embodies the qualities of what wounds us, who wounds us and how we learn to heal; but also what we cannot heal in ourselves.
Between 1952 and 1989 Chiron made many (39: see above) exact oppositions to Uranus, it was within orb for almost the entire period. By contrast Saturn has made only 2 exact conjunctions to Chiron in the last century and more: April 1883 in Aries and April 1966, in Pisces. She goes on to say that: "juxtaposing the two Chiron/Saturn conjunctions with the many Chiron/Uranus oppositions, we see that Chiron has symbolically pierced the Saturnian principle by crossing its orbit, in order for the feminine and instinctual earthy energy to be absorbed. Chiron also balances the unworkable nature of a one-sidedly Uranian attitude to life." Make of that what you will, but the principle has to be especially prevalent in those born with the opposition.
Chiron is - unless angular or otherwise promoted - not necessarily even capable of making itself felt in the charts of individuals since it requires an evolved response before it can manifest. I don't think this is much of a surprise, but it does raise a question about how the Uranus/Chiron opposition might play out generationally (which is the only place it might manifest otherwise).
This is another reason why the Uranus/Chiron opposition as a marker for child abuse seems suspect; because it would therefore be generational. Maybe that's true, the cult of youth is a bit unnerving these days. But abuse isn't an invention of the last 100 years alone. It might have a strong bearing on child pornography however due to the correlation between Uranus and the Internet; and that certainly is a new dimension in the landscape of abuse, so that seems very relevant.
Apparently Sisyphus was a remote descendant of Chiron!
Overall, the book is interesting, but not very accessible would be my conclusion (thus far). Here is what she says about the Uranus Chiron opposition:

"[it] often heightens the desire for freedom from constraints, especially in relationships. People with this aspect are often 'superUranian', apt to make sudden changes and cut off relationships and careers in mid-stream; they could also be prone to unexpected and often unwelcome events happening to them; they love new ideas and want to try new ways of living, perhaps feeling compelled to break through limitations and to stand out in the crowd. Chiron/Uranus people have a strong belief in individualism, as long as it is their own! They may be intolerant of others' ideas; Anyway, that's plenty to be going on with! Cool discussion btw :)

Peace, Jeremy

[some parts deleted because of copy right breach. A 100 words is acceptable and left here. Moderator.]

flea

03-31-2008, 01:56 PM

I have the aspect, yet so do most people born in the same year as me, the slower moving planets would only show up in personality traits if there is a very strong aspect to a personal planet.

I have this in the sun forming a T-square, and the moon trining chiron and sextiling uranus. The only addiction I have had is ciggies and gave that up cold turkey years ago....

Playing the role of deveil's advocate, hopefully it will point to some other insights.

Dont get me wrong I do love having the aspect and it has so many interesting synergies, just not sure how you can be so definite about a certain trait.

Love Light Flea

Jeremy

03-31-2008, 02:28 PM

Have to agree with you flea, by responding here it almost gives credence to the basic assumption of the thread which I'm yet to be convinced by either. I think addiction is much more Neptunian anyhow.

Which isn't meant to imply that I know anything much of course :)

Jeremy

EJ53

03-31-2008, 03:55 PM

I have this in the sun forming a T-square, and the moon trining chiron and sextiling uranus. The only addiction I have had is ciggies and gave that up cold turkey years ago....not sure how you can be so definite about a certain trait.

This thread has been interesting and enlightening but it does indeed seem to have become a search for "evidence" to support the theory rather an attempt to test it objectively. As Flea's chart and comment clearly shows, this aspect is mitigated by contact with other planets - and strength of character/freewill.

It seems to me there are three factors at work here :-
1. The chiron wound
2. Uranus (the awakener)
3. The opposition aspect - which submits Chiron to the maximum possible exposure/light from Uranus.

This aspect is about recognising and facing the Chiron wound OR running away from it - and addictions are the effect of the latter cause. Those who choose the first option/cause (maybe because of a strong sun or saturn) will experience a different effect.

In fact, Jeremy's first post said it all. He has Chiron in Pisces (wound = "victimisation") manifesting in the 6th house (work). Uranus gets activated and awakens him to the Chiron wound ("victim" of foul play in workplace). He then faced/accepted the wound - but others might have tried to ecsape that through some kind of substance abuse/addiction.

EJ:)

mdinaz

03-31-2008, 06:52 PM

mdinaz,

That’s very interesting. That this cyclic behaviour would have such an anomaly in our time, a period during which Chiron was discovered. Is that a clue? I would say so.
I did a similar search, but with exact only.
The period that really grabbed me in your list was the 1055 one – since I have a reasonable understanding of history in northern Europe during that time; however, I have this cycle at around 1020. From there on, our cycles match. What software do you use? I have SF5.
I think the next step would be to study history of those time spans in some detail, to see if there are any obvious correlations. Possibly also offset those dates 30-40 years, to see if the “revolutionaries” of those times came good on their promise. Or even 20 for the “true revolutionaries” (Still cannot believe that Lafayette was only 19 when he set sail.)
My other question is if the non-discovery of Chiron at those times, and indeed Uranus for many, would somehow “veil” the availability of the archetype in the society and people affected.
This is the kind of situation that makes me wish I lived in a big city with a library, instead of a beach paradise. Thank Jupiter for the net.

I have one “sub period” from Nov 1964 to August 1974, starting with Uranus in Virgo, then changing sign to Libra in October 1968, and the opposition is now in the axis of Aries-Libra. Right when the Vietnam protests were at their peak. Ultimately leading to the canning of the war – if that’s not a successful protest I don’t know what is. Has a military might backed down due to the “will of the people” before? Like I say, I know some bits of history but not all. It seems to me this might well be the type of big event we are looking for.

Managed to find my Clow book, but she only mentions the Contra affair during the 1986 opposition, nothing except drugs during the Vietnam era – as far as I can see. Why do authors not put an index in their books?
The 1745 period might have been a precursor to the American and the French? Our revolutionary would have been aged around 44 during the French and 31 during the American.
There is another period around 1020 - in addition to the one around 1055. This is also different from all the other cycles which tend to have a 100 yr. gap in between. The next earlier period ends around 914 AD. Again though, all three of these cycles have 4 or 5 sub-periods, not 39.

The most interesting thing about the 39 periods during the 20th century is that it coincides with the first generations born with loads of technology, music, and drugs - many things to be addicted to. In previous eras, all that was generally available was either religious fanaticism or political causes/war. The generation born in the 1740s would indeed have been the most politically active during the American Revolution - in their 30s at a time when they have families and have accumulated some wealth, while being young enough to physically be involved. Thomas Jefferson was born during the 1742-1745 cycle. Notice the next group were born in the mid 1840s, in time to be of age for the American Civil War. Jesse James was born with this opposition (5 degrees). Many of those born during the 1606-1609 period would have been involved in the English Civil War (as leaders, instigators, not necessarily soldiers). They also would have been involved in the colonization of the New World in the 1620s.

Also important is the generations born during Uranus/Chiron conjunctions. The last conjunction in the late 1890s borne the generation that fought WWI. The previous in 1795 provided fodder for the US War of 1812-1815 and the Napoleonic Wars, as well as occuring during the French reign of terror. There was a very long period of conjunction during the 17th century, lasting continuously from 1661-1690. Most other conjunctions only last a couple years at best.

As for Vietnam, the protests not only occured during the opposition, but many of the protesters were born during the opposition in the early 1950s. The first opposition occured in Jan 1951, making them teenagers entering college during the height of protests around 1969-1970 (and many of them are still protesting today, addicted to either protesting or the attention).

But anyhow, I'll continue to scan to see if I can find a comparable period in which 39 sub-periods of opposition occured in one cycle. So far it appears to be a major anomaly.

Jeremy

03-31-2008, 07:09 PM

Interesting, but I read recently that there are - on average - 9 wars going on at any given moment, so I am not sure it's entirely accurate to equate this opposition with 'war generations' my worry would be that there is a retrospective fitting out of facts to match ideas. I have read plenty of stuff now on Chiron and this is the only place I have discovered this addiction aspect with Uranus so I would love to be convinced, I am with EJ here, where did this idea about Uranus opposing Chiron come from originally?

My point really is that there have always been addictions, and whilst nobody can say that Chiron / Uranus oppositions aren't a factor, you could just as easily say they were responsible for any other key component of human behaviour and find historical complicities to back it up, because things happen all the time, right?

My belief would be that we should look to the key delineations of the planetary powers and take it from there. Does anyone else have a view on this?

Svencanz

03-31-2008, 09:57 PM

Excellent!

EJ53 has outlined the dynamic very concisely.
For one moment there I felt I was perhaps hi-jacking this thread with the revolutionary stuff, but I do no longer feel like this.
It all follows from EJ53's clear view of the dynamic. It has to do with change in the outer versus change in the inner - and no change.
The by Uranus (Prometheus) hi-lighted wound will not go away; so either one does the "switch" - the death of the wound as per mythology; the death transformation of Chiron somehow. What that means is the wound "no longer" matters; one goes into Prometheus mode, becomes a bringer of light.
(This is easierly said than done, of course).
The addiction, as I see it, comes from being wound-focused in the earlier stage, then choosing an addictive agent to suppress the wound. And there is no revolution in sight.
Jeremy, of course there has always been wars raging, but the question is how many of those wars changed the world. The French and American revolution are essentially forming the baseplate of "free society" as we experience it today; without those, we'd live in a very different world.
The US civil war has had a similar effect, though to a lesser extent. The Vietnam was was particular for other reasons, as I mentioned.
The single-best line of text I have ever read is this one: "My Father was a Warrior, so I could be a Farmer, so my Son can be a Poet." This describes the cycle of a society.

Now, in normal "colonialisation" mode, there is not much thought involved with the warring. It is simply a "claim of territory" so the farmer can get to work. The interesting bit happens when the poet has been born, and the cycle repeats. In this case, the Warrior if motivated by (revolutionary) thought coming from the Poet. Society has been established, and it is undergoing conscious, and sometimes violent transformation.
This transformation is driven by people, and if all the thinkers (poets) were lying in opium dens "thinking of England," there would be few revolutions.
Prometheus original punishment was because he brought fire (thought and enlightenment) to people: Chiron set him free so he could continue this work. Because of the direct switch between the two, I do not think you can exclude "revolution" from the meaning of a Chiron-Uranus opposition: it is simply to literal.
EJ53, searching for evidence to back up a theory is not a bad scientific approach; much of science is done this way. It does, however, demand integrity in the evaluation stage.
In the meantime: those of you who suffer with addiction: go find a suitable revolution. :)

Jeremy

03-31-2008, 11:44 PM

That's cool, I am not trying to say right or wrong, just trying to follow the logic; I have Uranus rising opposing Chiron descending at under a degree, so I am of course keen to try and get to the bottom of things. I think that revolution is a key vibration of Uranus so I am with you; wouldn't the opposition then manifest as a revolution that exposes futility? I think that for America there is an element of this for sure; the Vietnam saga, all that protesting and here you are 40 years later... in Iraq...

:)

I try to use astrology as a key to self-discovery (5 planets in fall - if you include Chiron in Pisces - so I need all the breaks I can get!), but Chiron is still a big mystery to me. Even after reading Reinhart's book I am still not so much clearer. My own experience of the transit seemed to be a little revelation for me and I am just trying to find the threads in my own life and those I know well. My brother in law has the Chiron conjunct Saturn in the first in opposition to a near exact conjunction of Uranus/Pluto in the 7th. Bearing in mind that it was for only a few months in 1966 that the Chiron Saturn has occurred in the last near 150 years that must be quite significant; I have no idea where to begin though.

I am intrigued by the meaning of Chiron rising; my daughter has Chiron in the first in Libra; planets in the first usually affect the appearance, and she has nothing else even close; her Asc is Virgo 26; I am wondering what might be considered a Chironian appearance? All the other planets have their trademearks after all...

Any thoughts?

mdinaz

04-01-2008, 12:25 AM

Because of the direct switch between the two, I do not think you can exclude "revolution" from the meaning of a Chiron-Uranus opposition: it is simply to literal.
EJ53, searching for evidence to back up a theory is not a bad scientific approach; much of science is done this way. It does, however, demand integrity in the evaluation stage.
In the meantime: those of you who suffer with addiction: go find a suitable revolution. :)

I think any Chiron/Uranus aspect relates to a revolution of sorts; a personal wound, however suffered, requires a breaking free of the source of that wound, and then using the energy gained in assisting others in also breaking free. I think in the Chiron/Uranus opposition, the energy is so contained and self-inward directed that the addiction or obsession can only break free through self-revolution. Perhaps in the Chiron/Uranus conjunction, the breaking free must be done by group action, such as the patriotic and nationalistic fervor of the 1890s conjunction produced those who came of age and fought in the first World War.

As for searching for evidence to back up a theory - in astrology there often isn't any other way. We can't wait for people to be born with particular aspects and then wait to see what happens. We can only search the historical database and see what has already transpired.

All this still doesn't answer one peculiarity - that there were 10 times the number of Uranus/Chiron opposition events in the 20th century as in other recorded centuries. Coincidence? Plan of God/Human kind in our quest for learning and knowledge? A rite of passage to see if Humankind can indeed grow past our roots in this time of technological progress?

Svencanz

04-01-2008, 01:11 AM

Jeremy,
Found this while looking for the title of their first book, which I have.
These authors write more clearly about mythology than any others I have come across. Needless to say, I will put in an order for their second book ASAP.

Ariel Guttman and Kenneth Johnson use mythic archetypes in their analysis of astrology. Mythic Astrology Applied (Llewellyn Publications, 2004, 360pp, $24.95) is their second book on this theme. Their fist book on the subject Mythic Astrology: Archetypal Powers in the Horoscope, sought to increase the scope of astrological interpretation through illustrating ancient mythic associations. The sequel seeks to expand this work through including practical suggestions for harnessing mythic energies in one’s life. In some ways the new title recapitulates ground covered in the first book. However, to be fair, I shall focus on Mythic Astrology Applied as though it were a lone title.

siamese_dream

11-14-2008, 05:48 AM

I have Chiron/Gemini/11th house opp. Uranus/Sag/5th house (separated by 5 degrees). I've never had a problem with addiction, although I'm only 21, so who knows what the future brings!

I've never found myself needing cigs, alcohol, or marijuana, although I have used these substances many times. I have cut much of my consumption, as I am very sensitive to this type of stuff, to all types of stimuli in general (Neptune in the 6th house?). So I tend to stay away from drugs and even modern medicine.

Chiron is tightly conjunct Mercury - perhaps this aids me in thinking clearly about this situation and coming to a logical decision (I am sensitive, so therefore I'll refrain from usage...).

JayM

12-10-2008, 06:09 PM

I have Chiron in gemini the third and mercury /uranus in saj in the tenth. Dont know if this is an opp but there might be some aspects to it.

look at my chart.

flea

12-11-2008, 03:07 AM

Hi JayM
Looks like you have a yod with chironR at the pointy end and neptune and pluto rounding out the triangle. Maybe chiron is of importance to you due to this. ONce you find something in your chart it leads you on a road of discovery until the next understanding. As they are all generational planets many people will share this aspect with you. I wonder how it is playing out for people.

The only personal planet that the yod touches for you is a square to mars, so it maybe worth exploring the meanings here.

Love Light and Laughter
Flea

Claire19

12-20-2008, 12:53 AM

Kuntuzangmo

09-20-2009, 02:22 AM

I have the uranus in the first house of leo opposing chiron in the seventh of aquarius. I'm confident I would be a mess were I not so fundamentally disciplined. ....had lots of disappointment in relationship and have focused much of my adult life in developing myself inwardly...even giving up a highly successful career to do so.
Chiron is now transiting over my natal chiron. Does anyone know what this tends to bring?

flea

09-20-2009, 05:19 AM

K,

Barbara hand Clow wrote the Liquid Light of Sex about Saturn Return (28), Uranus Opposition (39-42), and the Chiron Return (50). Just gone through the uranus opp, and the book was really useful explaingin the midlife crisis and the moving of the kundalini energy through the body....explained my health issues, and also positive things about my growing wisdom and relationship with life. Chiron return is kinda when your full healer teacher abilities come to fruition.... when the wise one inside you appears.

I also droppped a professional career about 6-7 years ago (pluto crossing my natal sun) and took time out and painting did some part time work teaching. But generally explored you I was and what I was experiencing. I dont regret it though the bank is probably looking a bit puzzled. My life is just bits of a jigsaw that feels like it is going in a really good direction but I dont have any proff except for feeling an inner peace and calm, and even the odd experience of joy.

FleaXXX

HeyPlayGirl

09-20-2009, 05:28 AM

wow, whe i read the title of this thread i knew i'd have it, ive battled addictions my whole life and i get addicted and obssessed easily with things habits and people and yep i have it at 1 degree. my chiron is in my 8th which cant help

god my chart *****

EJ53

09-20-2009, 08:17 AM

....Chiron is now transiting over my natal chiron. Does anyone know what this tends to bring?

My Chiron is in Scorpio/3rd, and manifests as a fear of being manipulated by others. I commented at http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9786&page=2 on how the Chiron cycle seems to have worked in my life, saying about the Return :-

...although I did not realise why until now, this was when I began to reflect upon how my resistance to "being manipulated" by others had affected my life.....(Note how that made me feel I'd displayed courage by resisting - rather than fear of something that might not actually have been happening.)

The most significant point arising from this reflection was that I'd always prided myself on "courageously resisting" all perceived manipulation....without ever asking myself if it was real or imagined.....So, at the Return, I began to realise for the first time that fear was the cause of my Chiron problems (rather than actual "manipulation by others").

EJ

flea

09-20-2009, 11:34 AM

So as mentioned I have this aspect tightly plus pluto conjoining uranus, so you might expect a big addiction problem....mmm not usual suspects of drink drugs etc, but of people situations, negative dramas and behavioural traits. All not easy to see especially from my point of veiw, but as said pluto crossing my sun which is square this opposition shed some light on what was going on.

A few years on now I see addictions as basically a supression of something, a fear of having a certain emotion. The addiction stuffs this fear back in, we refuse to allow ourselves to go through this perceived pain. When I see some addictive pattern coming up, I now am a bit forewarned, and try to see past the addiction to what the addiction is hiding. Sometimes it is a nonsenscial fear of speaking to strangers, or terror of terrors, expressing my true emotions, a strange one for someone with moon in cancer I have to admit.

So maybe there is a tie in here with EJ's insight into Chiron returns.

FleaXXX

Kuntuzangmo

09-21-2009, 11:27 PM

Thx Flea and others for responding. I like what you said, Flea about the full healer/teacher coming to fruition. In retrospect...when pluto went over my natal sun...is also when I packed up and headed out. Very interesting!

astrologer50

10-13-2009, 07:20 PM

My chart has Chiron in Aq (7 deg) EXACTLY on my Ascendent opposite Uranus in Leo (7 deg) EXACTLY on the descendent.

I am a First house Chiron poster child, if ever there was one. In the past year and a half, I've been afflicted with a strange sort of psoriasis (which may well be just a symptom of something else) that made most of my hair fall out, turned my skin bright pink all over, grotesquely distorted my finger and toe nails and made a mess of my palms and soles. I've been doing a LOT of inner work, and with the help of a wonderful derm MD/homeopath and my energy worker friends, my hair is growing in (formerly coarse, straight hair is now fine and curly), my nails are returning o normal, my palms are almost normal, my soles are bearable and getting better all the time... then, in August, I got a cough and brething difficulties. They told me I had lung cancer. I did theta healing, reiki, and went for a good look into the abyss -- 20 biopsies later, no cancer, but my breathing is very compromised. I feel oddly well and alive, just moving slowly and getting through this moment.

Uranus rules ankles, mental faculties, pineal and sexual glands, immune system, arthritis, rheumatism, gall bladder.

That's 2 legs of the fixed grand cross; the other is Moon Taurus (4 deg) opposite Neptune Scorpio (1 deg).

technically chiron is not a planet is therefore it's not a Grand Cross. I have a very very similar chart to you, uranus conj desc in 7th--1' Aqu rising, moon opp neptune. Even Saturn conj MC wide orb, pluto in 7th as well. Whereas you are a 10th (Equal house) scorpio, I'm stellium taurus 4th :biggrin:
Jupiter in virgo in 8th--- well WE know what that's about:wink: Athough I don't have the chiron/uranus opposition but it is in first house....

I am not addictive so much but I do have a tinge of obsessiveness.

I was a smoker, but I could go hours -- days -- even weeks w/out smoking, then I would smoke 7 cigs in a row. I quit cold turkey 11/04, and NOW I have breathing difficulties. Transiting Saturn in the 6th, Neptune in the 1st and now Chiron in the 12th - 1st have done a number!

The Moon/Neptune opposite gets a bad rap in books re: drinking and drugs. I am curiously pretty intolerant physically of alcohol, it makes me sick -- and my stomach is very resilient otherwise. I drink very little, just microbrew beer. So maybe I already did the alcoholism thing in another life...??? I consider drugs to be manufactured substances, and they have no real draw to me either -- the cocaine era passed me by; I didn't get the appeal of the drug.

On the other hand, perhaps my addiction is staying up too late on astrology forums (it's 12:35 am my time)! I keep forgetting that I have to be up at 5:15 am. :roll:

Well I think that's Jupiter in Virgo in 8th-- it just wants more and more details--- it's never enough and the deeper buried the better. First house chiron is the sign of a healer, but not so much healing ourselves :sad:

On the other hand, perhaps my addiction is staying up too late on astrology forums (it's 12:35 am my time)! I keep forgetting that I have to be up at 5:15 am. :roll: I'm bit the same but I do have Saggi MC so I like teaching, have been legal secretary and am/can be rather sociable, but your Scorpio suggests you are prob much more a private person....

astrologer50

10-13-2009, 09:12 PM

my boyfriend has Uranus opposing Chiron (3deg) with the Uranus conjunct Venus (2deg) - i always thought it meant wounding through emotional relationship as his independence in relationships is paramount due to Uranus. Well it is the 'divorce aspect'

I also thought it might mean a guy who doesn't want kids because chiron is in 5th

I found the opposite in one case he has (chiron in 5th opp uranus/conj pluto) had 8 in totoal non planned and finds it hard to live upto expectations and simply cannot cope with it all....

You can read and view a chiron book online here ::)
http://books.google.com/books?id=4rnvfxrc4LwC&pg=PT1&dq=astrology+chiron&ei=4cjUSrqMG46MNtLMrI4O#v=onepage&q=astrology%20chiron&f=false (http://books.google.com/books?id=4rnvfxrc4LwC&pg=PT1&dq=astrology+chiron&ei=4cjUSrqMG46MNtLMrI4O#v=onepage&q=astrology%20chiron&f=false)

C0rnholio

10-14-2009, 01:39 AM

I have a Chiron - Uranus opposition with a 1.1 degree orb. No addictions that I know of. I do not like smoking, drinking in moderation, and I do not like the idea of drugs, so I never tried. I thought I was addicted to sex (boiggggg!!!), but who isn't, this must be my Mars in Aries in the 8th house, so Chiron-Uranus have nothing to do with this.

Chiron in my chart is part of the only Grand Trine that I have with Sun, Moon and Chiron. I need to figure out what that means. Am I supposed to be some kind of a healer or something?

Pallas-trine-Mars

02-21-2010, 01:59 AM

Chiron opposed Uranus for about 40 continuous years, so no way do all of them have addictive personalities, in fact I don't even see either of those planets as having much of anything to do with addiction. IMO look elsewhere, maybe Neptune.