sources of paranoia

[Moulin]

My suggestion to those of you lucky enough to not experience fear induced and self protective paranoia is to understand it. People are not nuts, cos they hurt......


I agree Kylie. "People are not nuts cos they are hurt" BUT people ARE nuts to treat themselves with such disrespect that they allow themselves to be hurt by others.

Basically, my point is, - (if you are going down the "hurt being attributed to 'paranoia' route") that no one can actually hurt you. You perceive it to be from another but all that is happening is you are allowing yourself to feel hurt.
If a person has self worth, is respectful of themselves and secure then nothing can actually hurt them, unless they give permission and are part of it.

Therefore, a paranoid person must be lacking in the psychological V emotional balance department where they feel unworthy or unloved, or whatever. This must be a trigger for the hurt.

See what i'm trying to get at here? :)

(v hard to explain in writing)

[Looking to Jupiter]

I understand what you are saying Moulin. But this is deep psychology.....something very hard to articulate.
I am at present dealing with rejection because of my paranoia.....I wanted a friendship with someone, who i felt was ignoring me....and i flipped out. That comes from years of actually trusting someone else in my life who played me like a fool. So my walls went up and i tried to not let that happen again.
i dont want to be alone all my life, but i cant let what happened to me in the past happen again......i wont survive it....
this is way too hard to explain......
Maybe someone else can........*sigh*

[Looking to Jupiter]

It seems that i am doomed whether i trust others and think the best, or not.......I want a different natal chart.....i hate the one I have .....it sux!:D

[Looking to Jupiter]

that sounds like a chemical imbalance to me coffee [in response to a comment coffee made about someone who was paranoid the government was tapping their phone - Moderator note]

[Undo]

that sounds like a chemical imbalance to me coffee

Maybe. Maybe not.

I have friends who believe that the world is ruled by Reptilian space aliens. I assure you, they do not have chemical imbalances.

I've found (armchair psychology) that everyone has some irrational belief.

I know a guy who doesn't want a phone, for practically the same reasons as what coffee stated.

Take a look at Alex Jones, the guy is a conspiracy theorist who doesn't have a chemical imbalance.

[Looking to Jupiter]

look at david icke.....he has theroies of conspiracy...but i dont think thats a chemical imbalance either....there is a difference in thinking that governments are only out to get you in particular though...which is what i am thinking about the person in coffees post

[Undo]

look at david icke.....he has theroies of conspiracy...but i dont think thats a chemical imbalance either....there is a difference in thinking that governments are only out to get you in particular though...which is what i am thinking about the person in coffees post

You mean Bush isn't out to **** with America? Pardon my French, lass. ;)

I'd love to see the birth chart of David Icke, Alex Jones, and Zacharia Stitchin (SP?).

I think this is how we can fully understand paranoia in Astrology. :p

But yeah, I agree. But the thing with conspiracy theories is, there's never a way to prove or disprove it. Which is kind of unsettling especially for someone like me. I need facts/evidence when it comes to this stuff, just so I don't look like a crazed ******* for believing them.

To be honest, I don't know -what- to make of the Reptilians, considering the similarities between Reptilians and Sumer/Egypt. To be honest, the truth is ALWAYS stranger than fiction. That alone should be enough to scare people. ;)

[KayBug]

I may not have the jest of this thread but I will post anyway.

We all allow ourselves to be hurt sometime or another especially if you have children.

I don't do doors or phones, does that make me paranoid. If so, then so be it.

KayBug

[Undo]

I may not have the jest of this thread but I will post anyway.

We all allow ourselves to be hurt sometime or another especially if you have children.

I don't do doors or phones, does that make me paranoid. If so, then so be it.

KayBug

Well, it would depend on why you don't do doors or phones.

The entire gist of this thread is completely bonkers, I know, it's split from the "PARANOID android" thread. We were discussing paranoia in general, trying to figure out where it shows in the charts of people.

Unfortunately, it was split becuase it wasn't completely astrological.

[Undo]

Theres me writing some astrology stuff thinking it was astrological. :rolleyes:
This thread needs to be put back together.
I agree. I posted Icke's chart in the original thread.

I can't REALLY find anything. I don't know what to look for. Although his Pluto square his Mars (Scorp) seems like it could be something.

Pluto Leo 10th (Retro, IIRC) square Mars Scorpio 1st.

He has a nutcracker aspect. :38:

[Looking to Jupiter]

well just to add more confusion to this thread, cos i dont know where i am posting anymore,:confused: i will say that i think david Ickes paranoia comes from saturn and neptune in the 12th.

[KayBug]

Who is David Icke and are we suppose to be posting about his chart?

KayBug

[Undo]

well just to add more confusion to this thread, cos i dont know where i am posting anymore,:confused: i will say that i think david Ickes paranoia comes from saturn and neptune in the 12th.

I thought so too, but there's no real aspects that point to it. Maybe I'm looking too hard?

Oh....

They both oppose his Pluto.

To try and make sense of your idea, his Pluto (sd?) (underworld) in the 10th (career, ambition) with Leo (ego, selfhood) opposing his Saturn (responsibility, restriction) in the 12th (subconcious) in Libra (balance, relating)

His Pluto (sd?) (underworld) in the 10th (career, ambition) with Leo (ego, selfhood) opposing his Neptune (idealism, illusions) in the 12th (subconcious) in Libra (balance, relating)


Wouldn't that kind of even it out?


To try and make sense of mine, his Pluto (sd?) (underworld) in the 10th (career, ambition) with Leo (ego, selfhood) opposing his Mars (aggression, drive) in the 1st (identity) with Scorpio (penetrating, intensity).

[Undo]

Who is David Icke and are we suppose to be posting about his chart?

KayBug

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Icke

New Age conspiracist. Trying to see where it stems from.

[KayBug]

Undo....I read the link you posted. uh huh, yep, I see. I think I will move on to a little bit something more real for me.

KayBug

[Undo]

Undo....I read the link you posted. uh huh, yep, I see. I think I will move on to a little bit something more real for me.

KayBug

But David Icke is real. Hence the discussion of his chart, along with others who are conspiracy theorists. ;)

[Moulin]

Why has my thread now been cut into two????

It is all related, for God's sake.... just cos l don't mention Uranus in every post doesn't mean it's not linked to astrology.

No wonder Draco got so fed up :60:

[Moulin]

You simpy cannot blame your natal chart for your past and your present inability to trust others.

IF you had read and taken in what l said to you on your own thread you would have shown willingness to change.

You MUST trust yourself first tot trust others and you will survive being hurt again... it's only a mindset. Best thing to do is go back to the pain, the hurt and talk to it. Tell it that it is not appropriate to feel or magnify this hurt as an adult. Replace it with love for yourself.

Do you understand what i'm saying?

oh, and btw it is perfectly possible to articulate deep psychology, but this is where you have to place yourself if you want deep psychological change.

I really wish you would listen to my advice because you can ready yourself to allow you to open up to yourself.

Barriers and walls will only make for an unhappy life. They keep people away when you really, deep down want love. They keep you from discovering yourself which in turn stops you from fulfilling your potential, emotionally, physically and financially.

PLUS, eventually the walls bring disease - so best get rid of them ;)

I understand what you are saying Moulin. But this is deep psychology.....something very hard to articulate.
I am at present dealing with rejection because of my paranoia.....I wanted a friendship with someone, who i felt was ignoring me....and i flipped out. That comes from years of actually trusting someone else in my life who played me like a fool. So my walls went up and i tried to not let that happen again.
i dont want to be alone all my life, but i cant let what happened to me in the past happen again......i wont survive it....
this is way too hard to explain......
Maybe someone else can........*sigh*

[Looking to Jupiter]

you should write a book Moulin.....A womans how to.....:)

Look I know all of what you are saying Moulin, I AM changing slowly......but its taking time.....*I was trying to write more here, but its not coming out well...will try some other time.*

I am upset too, that this thread has been chopped in half ....I dont understand it....I thought also that astrology could be spoken about with no uranus in every post.....i thought we were building the foundation of the topic, to really understand it, so we are all on the same page about its meaning. I dont know.... I would write to the mods to ask, why this has happened, but I cant!

K

[Moulin]

I'm absolutely outraged and disgusted that Tim has chopped my thread up into pieces of sushi.

This is a great subject and l was serious about it. He has made a mockery of it.. why can't someone see that the posts are in line with the subject! It's not like we were discussing the weather in the Artic or something. I'm furious.

I should write a book cos to be honest, when you were little it took as long as it's taken me to write this post for you to get hurt and close down. (from the moment you felt hurt)

It takes the same amount of time to undo the hurt. The only difference is that, because we have carried it for so long we like to wallow in it (everyone does this) and therefore dramatise it. Have you ever noticed how you remember a place as being really big and then as an adult you re-visit and it's nothing like you remember? Same with feelings and hurt.

Anyway, you can do it in a nanosecond... all you have to do is go down the chain of hurt until you find the very FIRST link. Then, just change your mindset and it all vanishes.

A psychologist/psychotherapist would never tell you this ;)

[athan]

[QUOTE=Moulin]I'm absolutely outraged and disgusted that Tim has chopped my thread up into pieces of sushi.

This is a great subject and l was serious about it. He has made a mockery of it.. why can't someone see that the posts are in line with the subject! It's not like we were discussing the weather in the Artic or something. I'm furious.


I agree to that!!! I can neither follow the topic's unfoldment nor elaborate on it...
Athan

[Undo]

[quote=Moulin]I'm absolutely outraged and disgusted that Tim has chopped my thread up into pieces of sushi.

This is a great subject and l was serious about it. He has made a mockery of it.. why can't someone see that the posts are in line with the subject! It's not like we were discussing the weather in the Artic or something. I'm furious.


I agree to that!!! I can neither follow the topic's unfoldment nor elaborate on it...
Athan

Well, I don't know if any of my paranoia stems from my Pluto placement.

But Pluto is in the 3rd House (communications) which essentially means my words either heal or wound. Pluto also squares my Sun and Mars (12th and 11th respectively) which in turn are both conjunct and connected in a stellium with my Moon (12th house, all three are Cancer).

I've read that Pluto squaring Mars gives a Scorpionic trait to how I interact with lovers, friends, and enemies. Pluto is also IN Scorpio, which probably amplifies it. I heard it can also modify how your Mars works.

I will admit, I AM paranoid about anything involving relationships. I'm paranoid about indecisiveness in a lover. If they're that indecisive about where they stand, I'd rather have no relationship. It hurts, but it means I won't have to sort through things to figure out where they stand.

I never realized why people think of me as "intimidating". I guess this explains quite a bit. Especially since I wouldn't think twice about cutting someone down if I had to.

I also think it's a shame and disappointment that this thread was split. It's also weird, that most of the Astrological talk is now in this split thread. :rolleyes:

[Nexus7]

I knew someone who had Pluto rising once, squaring Mercury. He was certainly paranoid, had also been hospitalised for it. and the paranoia began to manifest as I knew him in the sort of Plutonic ways you might expect. I'm afraid I wasn't very tolerant or understanding of it at the time.

I did not get the impression it was to do with chemicals, though he certainly did not help himself with that - he abused drugs. He had a Mars Nepune square Uranus too. I always got the impression it was an emotional illness first and foremost. He was a new moon, there was a lot of emotional deprivation somewhere I think, and his chart was all fire.

He was also heavily involved in esoteric astrology, which I also think was particularly dangerous in his case. R D Laing likewise had occasion to mention this interest in one of his cases in his first bestseller on that one.

[Undo]

I knew someone who had Pluto rising once, squaring Mercury. He was certainly paranoid, had also been hospitalised for it. and the paranoia began to manifest as I knew him in the sort of Plutonic ways you might expect. I'm afraid I wasn't very tolerant or understanding of it at the time.

I did not get the impression it was to do with chemicals, though he certainly did not help himself with that - he abused drugs. He had a Mars Nepune square Uranus too. I always got the impression it was an emotional illness first and foremost. He was a new moon, there was a lot of emotional deprivation somewhere I think, and his chart was all fire.

He was also heavily involved in esoteric astrology, which I also think was particularly dangerous in his case. R D Laing likewise had occasion to mention this interest in one of his cases in his first bestseller on that one.

Ouch. Depending on the drugs he did, would also effect how it manifested, mushrooms tend to remove the ego, acid makes one more susceptible to beliefs. But that Pluto square Mercury is the kicker.

I know little about esoteric astrology. Which R.D. Laing book are you referring to? I'd like to try and find an excerpt of that unless you can offer an explanation. From what I gather, it seems like R.D. Laing discussed a person's paranoia as well as his obsession with esoteric astrology.

[Nexus7]

The book was 'The divided Self' by R D Laing. One of his patients purportedly was an astrologer, theosophist and vegetarian and was definitely in a lot of trouble by the time he came to see Laing.

[Nexus7]

I have Mercury and Saturn trine Pluto natally and the closest I came to paranoid-as-in-madness was whilst hitching back from a pretty alternative festival once....it was a question of realising this was paranoia and that it might not be a good idea to go down that road too far..... My paranoia otherwise is not to do with jealousy or unfaithfulness on the part of lovers, but more to do with malevolent Sate bureaucracies - then I find out that Richart Tarnas has come up with boatloads of Saturn/Pkuto writers I come across and found interesting, such as Kafka, Orwell and the like. The diea of Moby Dicjk sounds great too, alas the ideas are maybe more interesting than the thought of actually having the time or pateince to actually read the the thing. I wonder of the writer of 'One flew over the cuckoo's nest was Saturn-Pluto too?

[funkspunky]

I agree Kylie. "People are not nuts cos they are hurt" BUT people ARE nuts to treat themselves with such disrespect that they allow themselves to be hurt by others.

Basically, my point is, - (if you are going down the "hurt being attributed to 'paranoia' route") that no one can actually hurt you. You perceive it to be from another but all that is happening is you are allowing yourself to feel hurt.
If a person has self worth, is respectful of themselves and secure then nothing can actually hurt them, unless they give permission and are part of it.

Therefore, a paranoid person must be lacking in the psychological V emotional balance department where they feel unworthy or unloved, or whatever. This must be a trigger for the hurt.

See what i'm trying to get at here? :)

(v hard to explain in writing) What if it turns out it was real all along? That ain't paranoia.;)