Harmonics

[Arian Maverick]

Although I tried to (temporarily) stuff my Virgo South Node in a burlap sack, it found a clever way of escaping and urged me to create this new board about harmonics instead of risking off-topic posting.

This question is for Radu, starting from where the 11:11 Phenonemon Board (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=960) left off:

I'm getting a bit off-topic, but this conversation about harmonics has me intrigued...why weren't we simply born on the date used to create our harmonic chart, if indeed we have such a natural sensitivity to it?

Aquarian Maverick

[Radu]

Several possible answers:

- We are sensitive to all kinds of influences, so we get a general birth chart that may be used to pinpoint all of them, using the appropriate harmonic technique.

- Who said that planets must be drawn in the natal chart as we currently do now? This is only a conventional representation of the planets positions around the zodiac. The entire thing around the harmonic charts is that they show interactions between natal chart elements that aren't really connected in the traditional way of considering the natal chart.

Let me explain the last statement: what exactly does a trine represent in the 11th harmonic chart ?! Well, that aspect in the natal chart is actually a 3*11=33th harmonic aspect, that is 360/33=10.(90) degrees aspect. Since this aspect doesn't have a name you may name it after yourself, an aqumaverick aspect. So all your planets in the natal chart that are 10.9 degrees apart or multiples of that number are in aqumaverick aspect to each other. Such as Mars and Jupiter or Jupiter and Neptune.

This idea leads us to whole new bunch of other considerents such as: why do we bother to consider only 5 major aspects and a few other minor aspects when ALL PLANETS IN A CHART ARE IN SOME KIND OF ASPECT TO ANY OTHER, for any given arc distance.

Well, I hope this post not only didn't give you a definite answer, but created a few more questions, which I await unpatiently.

[Arian Maverick]

Let me explain the last statement: what exactly does a trine represent in the 11th harmonic chart ?! Well, that aspect in the natal chart is actually a 3*11=33th harmonic aspect, that is 360/33=10.(90) degrees aspect. Since this aspect doesn't have a name you may name it after yourself, an aqumaverick aspect. So all your planets in the natal chart that are 10.9 degrees apart or multiples of that number are in aqumaverick aspect to each other. Such as Mars and Jupiter or Jupiter and Neptune.

I loved the way you presented such an intelligent, informed discussion while using such a ridiculous name as an aquamaverick aspect :D

Unfortunately, any questions I might have thought of were smothered in a fit of giggles...I wonder how you would use this as a verb? Try saying in a straight tone that Mars is aqumavericked Jupiter, and see if you can resist cracking a smile :wink:

Now that I have somewhat recovered, another question has presented itself to my consciousness--what is the relationship, if any, between numerology and astrology? I have observed that harmonics seem to express the characteristics or influence of the number from which they are derived, but I suppose a more in-depth analyze would be needed to verify this idea.

Also, there are many different core numbers in astrology, such as one's lifepath number (9), destiny number (22), soul urge (1*), inner dreams (3*), and of course the date of birth (5). Would these core numbers be reflected by astrological harmonic charts?

Aquarian Maverick

P.S. By the way, my numbers are provided in the parenthesis in case you were wondering what they were for. Sometimes I become so excited by the subject manner that I forget to properly explain myself :roll:

*I'm not sure of my soul urge and inner dream numbers, because in my last name there's an h that seems to form one sound with the vowel before it; however, it is not on the list of consonants that can acts as vowels. Therefore, I'm still unsure if I should count it as a consonant or vowel.

[Radu]

Numerology is a different system than astrology. So, mixing apples with oranges won't result in anything else, but a tasty juice...

Interesting questions, though. We have letters - numbers correspondences.
When calculating our Destiny Number, we sum up all the numbers corresponding to letters and then reduce them to 0-9 plus the master numbers. In numerology, we HAVE TO reduce them, in order to find the appropriate category and get an interpretation.

But, in astrology, when we are about to use the harmonic charts in order to investigate our names, there is NO POINT in reducing them, we can calculate any harmonic chart we want.
Example: Aquarian Maverick sums up to 74. When computing the 74th harmonic chart derived from Beth's natal chart, there're some nice aspects that may explain why she choosed this nickname on this forum. For instance, the harmonic chart Ascendant is at 1 Pisces, conjunct with Forum's Mercury (that's the most important planet in the Forum's chart (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=848)).
Also, in the 74th harmonic chart, Mercury (key planet on forums) is square Uranus, a perfect aspect to describe an 'Aquarian Maverick'.

I just tested this theory on myself and it seems to work very well, explaining for instance why I choose to introduce myself as 'Radu' instead of using both first names 'Radu Dan'. There're nice aspects to the Sun (personality) in the 17th harmonic chart (corresponding to 'Radu'), and hard aspects in the 27th harmonic chart (corresponding to 'Radu Dan').

This could be actually prove be a good hint on naming one's baby... I'll apply it on my own :)

[Arian Maverick]

This could be actually prove be a good hint on naming one's baby... I'll apply it on my own

Your wife's having a baby?! Congratulations! :D

Or perhaps I'm just getting overexcited and jumping to conclusions again...sorry about that :roll:

Anyway, I've heard it said numerous times that parents are able to intuitively choose the perfect name for their children, one which best resonates with this soul's energy. I think this is fascinating, since it is nearly impossible for those but the most gifted psychics to communicate with their unborn children and know exactly who this soul is--at least on a conscious level. But intuition is not limited to the linear constraints of our 3-D world...it surpasses all boundaries, since none really exist!

Example: Aquarian Maverick sums up to 74. When computing the 74th harmonic chart derived from Beth's natal chart, there're some nice aspects that may explain why she choosed this nickname on this forum. For instance, the harmonic chart Ascendant is at 1 Pisces, conjunct with Forum's Mercury (that's the most important planet in the Forum's chart).
Also, in the 74th harmonic chart, Mercury (key planet on forums) is square Uranus, a perfect aspect to describe an 'Aquarian Maverick'.

Wow, I can't believe all of these sychronicities...especially having my 74th harmonic chart Ascendant at the first degree of Pisces (spirituality)! Thanks again, Radu! :wink:

EDIT: I believe it took me less then a minute after posting this message to think of yet another question. Would there be any interesting effects by taking the sum of your full name and applying that harmonic to your natal chart? I'm incredibly curious to see how all of this may fit together...

Aquarian Maverick

[Arian Maverick]

Radu, do you know of any good books or websites about harmonics? I'm particularly interested in the grand trines that manifest in almost all of my first nine harmonic charts and the prominant Kite formation in my 7th and 10th...thanks! :mrgreen:

Aquarian Maverick

[Radu]

I heard that Harmonics in Astrology - John Addey and Harmonic Charts - David Hamblin are good books. Didn't read them though.

[Arian Maverick]

I don't know if everyone knows this already, but I discovered today that you can generate more harmonic charts than the first nine on Astrodienst...simply select harmonic chart (day -> harmonic number) and change the start date! :D

I can't believe I didn't realize this before...they should really create another option besides this :?

Aquarian Maverick

[Draco]

Hi Beth,

Download AstroWin in seconds, and you just enter whatever number that you fancy instead of having to mess about on AD.

AstroWin is reliable by the way, in case you saw my post where I questioned it, it's just I was entering the wrong timezone, as I'm prone to do. *groans* :roll:

I get easily baffled by the simplest of things, I'm sure it's to do with my fishy ascendant. :?

When you download AstroWin and have the icon on your desktop, click it, enter your chart details, 'OK' it, click on 'Wheels', click on 'Natal', then from the list it provides choose 'Harmonic' which is the 17th one down from the top. Then you put in any number, 11, 30, 666, 1000, 12345 - and you have your harmonic chart for any number you like. :)

Saves messing about on AD.

Draco :wink:

[Arian Maverick]

Sounds like a good solution to me :D

Aquarian Maverick

[Draco]

:wink:

[Arian Maverick]

I'd really like to get this Harmonics thread started again...I'm particularly interested in the 9th Harmonic (http://www.aquarius-atlanta.com/aug04/harmonic.shtml) :D

Does anyone have any ideas or insights?

Aquarian Maverick

[Futurist]

Hiya

Can't give you an indepth lesson on harmonics due to time constraints but coincidentally, if you haven't read my last two articles, you may like to take a look . I have gone more deeply into the subject of harmonics (my last post even has a visual image of the 1st thru 5th harmonic.) to try and explain Periodicity (last article) and 'Harmony of The Spheres' (the one before).

In studying this branch of astrology (Harmonics) and paying only background attention to the rest, you will arrive at the key to the entire subject of astrology and numerology and how it fits into the Universe. I believe the whole Cosmos is founded on number (and harmony).

When we look at an astrological chart we are looking at a moment in time of a much greater unfolding. Every planet in our chart is resonating with something else, either harmoniously or discordantly. If we are born into a moment of discordance between two (or more) planets we respond (or resonate) to those chords throughout our lives BUT our lives unfold in cycles. Our lives will literally play out a tune in a greater symphony.

Astrology could therefore be described as the art of deducing if we are better sticking to percussion instruments or playing in the string quartet!!

[Radu]

Great posts, Kathryn! very interesting... I'm looking for more such connections with astrology. Couldn't you write a book with all details that interest me on the subject of harmonics? ;)

[Arian Maverick]

I have gone more deeply into the subject of harmonics (my last post even has a visual image of the 1st thru 5th harmonic.) to try and explain Periodicity (last article) and 'Harmony of The Spheres' (the one before).

Kathryn, where can I find these articles? I studied numerology quite a bit before I finally gathered up my courage and delved into astrology, so I am particularly interested in any correlation between the two practices :wink:

Thanks for sharing your great wealth of knowledge with others! :D

Aquarian Maverick

[Radu]

where can I find these articles?
Check her blog at http://collaboratingwithfate.blogspot.com/ (it's the WWW link below any of her posts)

[Arian Maverick]

Check her blog at http://collaboratingwithfate.blogspot.com/ (it's the WWW link below any of her posts)

Ah, Mercury is still retrograde, isn't it? :roll:

Thanks Radu! :mrgreen:

Aquarian Maverick

[Arian Maverick]

Hello everyone! :D

I have regained in harmonic astrology yet again, and I was wondering if anyone could help me with the interpretation of my fourth harmonic chart. I am a bit concerned at the abundance of harmonious aspects as well as the central Kite formation with its focal point of Pluto....

This is an excerpt about the Fourth Harmonic from Bob Marks' Website (http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/harmonics32.1.html).

The Fourth Harmonic: The 4th harmonic shows how we deal with stress, strain, and struggle. When you construct a 4th harmonic chart, all of the conjunction, square, and opposition aspects in the original horoscope appear as conjunctions and this makes them easier to see. Of course, these aspects are pretty easy to see in the original horoscope as well, so what's the point? The point is that the minor aspects, the semi-square (45 degrees) and sequa-square (135 degrees), which are difficult to spot by a quick visual inspection, now appear as oppositions, and can be seen at a glance. Not only that, but other minor stress aspects (22 ½ degrees, 67 ½ degrees, 157 ½ degrees), which can take a very long time to locate, now become squares. In the 4th harmonic, whole patterns of stress aspects can be spotted, and this gives you a big edge for interpretation.

The horoscope of Francisco Assis, the Brazilian serial killer who killed at least nine women, doesn't seem, at first, to be excessively violent. But when you look at Francisco's 4th Harmonic Chart, you see another story. The Sun is opposite Venus, which can give feelings of being unloved. Yes, but lots of people have that and they don't become serial killers. What they don't have is Uranus making square aspects in the 4th harmonic to both the Sun and Venus. Uranus can make one prone to sudden, hysterical outbursts. Still, everyone born that day had the same thing. What else is there here to drive him over the edge? The Ascendant also makes stress aspects. It opposes Uranus and squares both the Sun and Venus. This makes a Grand Cross, a rare and highly stressful pattern. The Ascendant is very sensitive to changes in the time of birth. In the 4th harmonic chart, this Grand Cross could only have formed in a time interval of about 20 minutes!

But there's more to come. Mercury (the mind) Mars (violence) and Saturn (depression) make a T-Cross formation (another stressful configuration) in the 4th harmonic as well. Once again though, everyone born that day had the same thing. Why is this case different? Take another look at the birth chart. There is a close semi-square between Mars and the cusp (beginning) of the 8th house (death). Not only that, but Mars rules the sign of Aries, which happens to be the sign on the cusp of the 12th house (psychological problems) as well. This is the classic 8th house-12th house connection frequently found in the charts of serial killers. Where does the 8th house cusp land in the 4th harmonic chart? Opposite Mars, with square aspects to both Mercury and Saturn. It forms another Grand Cross. And this too, could only have been formed in an interval of about 20 minutes. It could take hours to see this in a birth chart. In the 4th harmonic chart, the conclusion leaps out at you.

What happens though, if you have harmonious aspects (sextiles and trines) in a 4th harmonic chart? The best example of that comes from Hamblin's "Harmonic Charts." It is the horoscope of a little known French Marshal from World War I, Franchet d'Esperey. Hamblin claims that sextiles and trines in a 4th harmonic chart show "effort towards pleasure, or pleasure in effort." In other words, someone who likes stress, strain, and struggle. Hamblin quotes Gauquelin's description of him:


"...he drove cars at maniacal speed and shot windows when there was nothing better to shoot."

In d'Esperey's 4th Harmonic Chart, there is a Grand Trine between the Sun, Mars, and Pluto, a perfect aspect pattern for a soldier. A Moon/Venus conjunction sextiles the Sun and Pluto and opposes Mars, making for a Kite formation. Here is someone who had an emotional need (the Moon) for action and violence (Moon/Mars) and got a lot of pleasure from it (Moon/Venus).

Muhammad Ali's 4th Harmonic Chart also has a lot of harmonious aspects, especially to the Mid-Heaven. The Sun makes a sextile and the Moon a conjunction, and both aspects are within one degree of being exact. This means that stress, strain, and struggle are more likely to bring him before the public. The Mid-Heaven also has a trine from Jupiter and a sextile from Uranus. In Ali's Birth Chart, Jupiter rules the 5th house (sports and games) and Uranus rules his 7th house (open enemies), a perfect setup for someone to become famous through competitive sports.

Robert Blake, the actor arrested for his wife's murder, has a 4th Harmonic Chart with a highly stressful T-Cross formation. There is a conjunction of the Moon (feelings, emotions) and Neptune (imagination, film), which helped him in his film career, but it is opposite Pluto (extremes) and all three of these planets make a square to Jupiter (expansion and over optimism). There is hostility towards women here, and when his emotions go, they can really go (Moon, Jupiter, Pluto T-Cross), especially if he happens to be under the influence of alcohol or other intoxicants (Neptune).

Look at this...Pluto opposes my Ascendant, my Midheaven, and Chiron, and trines my Sun/Venus/Mercury conjunction as well as Mars. This cannot be a good thing :(

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/6081/myfourthharmonicchart6kf.th.png (http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=myfourthharmonicchart6kf.png)

Arian Maverick

[unukalhai]

I mainly use the 8th, 12th, and 16th harmonic charts.

in the 8th harmonic, tight-orbed oppositions, squares, semisquares and sesquiquadrates show up as conjunctions.

In the 12th, Semisextiles, sextiles, squares, trines, quincunxs and oppositions (all the major "30 degree" aspects) show up as conjunctions.

In the 16th, all the 8th harmonic aspects, plus 22.5, 67.5, 112.5, and 157.5 show up as conjunctions.

This makes finding aspects in the chart very easy, as conjunctions are most obvious.

I've never paid much attention to aspects in a harmonic chart... They can be somewhat misleading.. For example, a 1st harmonic (actual) semisextile is a trine in the 4th harmonic.

What I do find to work, relating to angular placement in harmonic charts, is midpoints. unlike aspects, midpoints totally change in a harmonic chart.. and thus they are the most sound indicator of energy flow in a harmonic chart.

Harmonic midpoints function just like regular midpoints, except that they function stronger in the specific sort of experience indicated by the harmonic.

The meaning of each harmonic chart can be taken directly from the numerology of the harmonic, or the meaning of the aspect it is based upon. As such, The 4th harmonic is considered the "challenge" harmonic because it lines up with the 4/360 aspect, 90 degrees, the square, aspect of challenge.

[StarrySkies]

Ahh!! I just realized that my 4th Harmonic chart is full of stressful aspects! :eek: I have Sun opposing Venus and Ascendant like that serial killer, and a T-cross involving Mars, Pluto, and MC opposing Moon and Uranus squared by the aforementioned Sun and Moon.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g288/heart_of_summer07/charts/achart_t1efilePqtZdg-u1154215110-2.gif
P.S. I just read Unukalkai's post...I missed it in my posting frenzy. I will now head off to find some midpoints. :)

[unukalhai]

Even better, when midpoints form around aspected points - the real combined beauty and power of symmetrical aspect patterns ;)

The big kicker in your 4th harmonic chart is the Sun/Venus opposition, which relates to the Sun/Venus 45-degree (8th of a circle) aspect in the first harmonic. It has Pluto at it's midpoint, forming a t-square, with Mercury and Saturn having their midpoint close to the Sun/Venus midpoint, in opposition to Pluto. The whole thing has 180/135/90/45 aspects in the 4th harmonic linking it, so in the 32nd (4x8) harmonic chart it all forms a wide conjunction.

In the 4th, it's a bit hard to understand, because it's forming a diamond-shaped 5-sided stress aspect figure, going to the 8th harmonic makes the pattern a bit more apparent, as the 5 objects (6 if you count the Mercury/Juno conjunction!) come into a grand cross, an easier pattern to understand. It's also a symmetrical pattern, which is always a plus to see in a harmonic chart; I generally consider when I end up with a good solid symmetrical figure that I've found the right harmonic to work in.

http://www.fusionpics.com/out.php/i13773_8hrm.gif

The tightest part of the pattern is the Mercury/Saturn opposition midpointed/t-squared by Venus. the Mercury/Saturn is a great combination for dedicated and intense thought processes, some consider this combination ideal for scientific/analytical research, but with Venus involved (and being in the "drivers seat" at the apex) says you're more likely to apply it to creative or love pursuits, or the other Venusian areas.

Remember that stress aspects aren't always bad and they often play out in a positively dynamic way; people who really make a place for themselves in history by their accomplishments almost universally have stressful aspects dominating the chart... It's where they get their drive from.

Something makes me think this configuration speaks of a successful creative writer, a patient relationship counselor, or an art teacher.

Midpoints in the harmonics also have a sneaky way of pointing out hidden patterns in our charts, that we normally would overlook.

For example, you've got this big time hotspot around the 14-15th degree of Sag, where 4 midpoints converge over a half degree swath!

13Sag49 = Venus/Juno
13Sag53 = Sun/Mercury
14Sag02 = Saturn/Pluto
14Sag22 = Mars/Neptune

Visual representation (with some unused objected forced to represent the midpoints for visual clarity, the brownish aspects are 16th aspects, yellow are 8th aspects)

http://www.fusionpics.com/out.php/i13833_mpcvg.gif

That's gotta be a transit-catcher!! This is the 1st harmonic trigger point for that 8th harmonic cross. It's being activated now with Mars sitting right there, too. What have you be driven to do the past few days? Anything that'd be congruent with the harmonic charts? Jupiter will hit that degree around the beginning of feb-2007. Sun was there around December 6th.

[StarrySkies]

Thank you, Unukalhai, for clarifying the "frightening" aspects of my 4th Harmonic chart! ^^ I hope I can overcome those stressful aspects but in the meantime, I'll have to wrestle with them a bit. :D You were correct in your assessments of some potentialness in the harmonics; I love to write and draw and I plan to be either a dentist/docot/psychiatrist! That's one think I'm starting to see and love in harmonics and midpoints...things I normally couldn't spot or overlook in the natal become obvious in harmonics and midpoints. I'm a "big picture" sort of person, so I sometimes gloss over the details, either on accident or on purpose. :o
About the midpoints, in retrospect, it explains why I felt like I had a recurrence of Pluto transits around 2001 even though it conjuncted my Sun back in 1998-9! 2001 was when Pluto came around and conjuncted with those midpoints (13-14 degrees Sag). That was the year where I was forced to reevaluate and reaccess my life at the tender age of 11. It was a lonely, painful time but it dissolved my ego somewhat and my views on my life changed from that year forward, hopefully for the better.
As to the here and now, I can't say that I've been particularly driven to do anything because I've been down with the flu these past few days...although I suppose I've been driven to succeed in my last year as a senior lately. I can't wait for February! Come on, Jupiter! :D

[unukalhai]

Right on! Thanks for the reply :)

Harmonics and midpoints can be frighteningly accurate, especially when used in combination with the other, more classical techniques.

The experiences of the Pluto transit over 13-14 sag is certainly an interesting thing to ponder, I bet many of the experiences there will reveal how this configuration plays out for you. I've always considered each configuration in a nativity to be indecipherable to anyone besides the native... Someone else can make guesses and postulations, but only the native truely understands how it's working in their life... Such is free will, tis a wonderful thing.

Good to hear you were pushed into exploring the deeper parts of yourself at an early age. I was too, and I wouldn't trade it for anything. Character building experiences early in life can be very beneficial and make the rest of your life alot smoother.

[business voodoo]

As such, The 4th harmonic is considered the "challenge" harmonic because it lines up with the 4/360 aspect, 90 degrees, the square, aspect of challenge.

i would also consider the 4th harmonic chart the intrinsic harmonic foundation of the individual. using numerological philosophies, 4 and, consequently, the square is the basis of foundation and structure upon which the life is based. its interesting to apply that to harmonics and that traditionally the term "challenge" is used to describe the 4th harmonic chart. looking at the formation of the 4th harmonic chart as the harmonic foundation for the natal chart can probably help sort out any "challenges" as usually the challenges are a result of the need for acceptance of the relationship of the energies involved. its is internal relationship of energies that are reflected in the harmonics charts and often just knowing what 'is' and accepting the configuration for what it is (and not judge it as good or bad) can allow an individual to "go from there".

[blennus]

Here's some information I dug up on the 17th harmonic.

The emphasis of 17th and 34th harmonics in the charts of actors was also not anticipated, and this result may shed some light on the nature of the astrological influence of 17-based harmonics. The anecdotal evidence that I have gathered regarding the 17th and 19th harmonics has not been as conclusive as the lower prime number harmonics.My tentative conclusions is that both of 17 & 19th harmonics are inclined towards an integrated, wholistic, sensitive, and non-linear approach to the world. Both harmonics are somewhat Neptunian in that they are sensitive, refined, and intuitive.
The 17th harmonic seems to have a somewhat more Venusian quality and the 19th harmonic a somewhat more Mercurial quality. Both harmonics, however, seem to integrate intelligence and artistic sensitivity in interesting ways. Aptitude and interest in humanities, arts, culture, and education appear to be strong, with a particularly strong tendency towards arts pusued in an intellectual or mental way. Interest in literature, different cultures, and a variety of experiences appears to be strong. The strong 17th and 34th harmonics in the charts of actors in the Gauquelin database is intriguing and certainly reasonable given the tentative indications of how the 17th harmonic may affect people.


Exploratory research is a small, but important, progressive step from anecdotal evidence. Most problems of selective perception, complexities of extraneous variables and complexities such as how we attract certain people, are mostly eliminated. However, we must still be cautious and realize that random fluctuations can occur, and I am not yet ready to draw more definitive conclusions regarding the 17th harmonic, and I am not as confident that the 17th harmonic aspects will appear more often in another group of actors. I am more confident about the other conclusions because previous pilots studies and anecdotal evidence more strongly support the results found.Source: http://keplersoftware.com/DISCOVERY.HTM

I was interested since I have some really tight conjunctions in the 17th. While this certainly isn't conclusive, it was the best information I could find.

[waybread]

blennus, thanks for your helpful material on the 17th harmonic! Not an easy one to dissect.

I find the higher harmonics hard to address [to me, the 4H is easiest understood as a square, for example] but two books that attempt to explain them are:

Michael Harding and Charles Harvey, 1990, _Working with Astrology: The Psychology of Harmonics, Midpoints and Astro*Carto*Graphy_[London: Arkana]

David Cochrane, 2002, _Astrology for the 21st Century_ [Gainesville: Cosmic Patterns Software, Inc.]

I have a rough method for looking at "minor" aspects [like the 7H or septile] or higher harmonics in a chart, but would love to hear from anyone who has a better system. It is:

1. Run the harmonic chart [via Astrodienst, one's own software, another web site, &c] and note the conjunctions as indicative of a true aspect in that harmonic.

2. Go back to the natal chart, and note where the above conjunct planets occur by sign, house, &c.

3. Determine the meaning of the harmonic or "minor aspect" in question. For example, a septile [7H] supposedly indicates inspiration and a kind of discipline. A vigintile [20H, or separation of 18 degrees and its multiples] is either a square in the 5H chart or a quintile in the 4H chart. Put them together, and you get a kind of challenge or tension [4-series] to develop one's creativity or special talent [5-series].

4. Synthesize #s 2 & 3, above, in the natal chart, using the natal chart's signs and houses, as harmonic charts don't show houses, and many astrologers apparently feel that the signs don't signify anything in the harmonic chart.

Does this work for you?

Most times in a chart reading I wouldn't bother with harmonics, but I do think the septile can be important for spiritual people [and apparently for composers], or maybe in a detailed reading there's no major aspect between the sun and moon, but they do have a minor aspect between them that can be picked up in a harmonic chart.

[starlink]

I stumbled on this thread for the 1st time (it started before I joined the Forum I think). I did my 4th harmonic in ADienst, indeed very easy to do AM and I get this very wild chart!
I just did not manage to upload the chart, tried for at least an hour and nothing seems to work. Never mind.
What I see is the following:

Uranus in Aquarius opposed to Saturn and Chiron (11° Leo) and square Asc. in Scorpio (T-square)
POF conjunct my natal Ascendant at 25° Scorpio
Venus in Taurus opposed to the 4th harm. Ascendant (11° Scorpio)
MC of harm. chart at 24° Libra
Moon at 9° Libra trine Mars.

I really never used harmonics, but after reading this thread I am very interested. Also Waybread, what you wrote about looking where those conjunctions etc. fall in the natal chart.

OK, the harmonic Moon falls conjunct my natal Neptune.
The harmonic Uranus in Aquarius exactly opposes my Pluto in Leo
Harmonic Venus (now in the 6th house) conjunct my natal Sun opposing now also my natal Moon.

I still must figure out what this means however. So how do I deal with stress must be seen from this chart?
I really have to look at this a bit more, for now it does not tell me much as it is totally new for me.
I thought it would be good to start this thread again because of the "Bad girl" thread, remember Waybread? I cannot see why she is "evil" as Hey describes her. Maybe if I would do a 4th harmonic, then we could see what is lurking beneath those nice trines and sextiles of the bad girl???

Cheers, Starlink

[waybread]

Hi starlink!

Thanks for raising the harmonic topic!

Just a quick primer from Auntie Waybread. Ahem...

Basically harmonics and aspects are different ways of saying the same thing. The 4th harmonic includes squares and oppositions. The 3rd harmonic is the trines. The 2nd harmonic is oppositions only. The 7th harmonic is the septile, or 360/7 aspect. Obviously any pair of planets have some number of degrees of separation between them: some are named (360/20 is the "vigintile") but some are not (like 360/28). Narrow orbs are essential.

By the way "H" generally means "harmonic" by people who work with them, not "house."

So a square in the 4th harmonic chart should mean 360/16, or the 16H Since it is part of the "two-series" it should be somewhat stressful.

I personally have trouble reading harmonic charts. So I just take the aspect read off the harmonic chart and apply it back to the natal chart to see how it works. For example, 360/9 or "novile" should be a mildly fortunate aspect because it is part of a 3-series. If you find two planets in a birth chart that are 40 degrees apart (120/3) then you could read it as a novile (9H).

One aspect/harmonic that might be worth considering in the chart of a difficult person is the 11-series, or 360/11. This is supposed to be Uranian and disruptive. An opposition in the 11H chart should be stressful because it combines a 2-series with the 11 (the 22H). A square in the 11H chart (or 44H) should combine the energies of the square and the 11, making for a lot of stress.

This is kind of how it works!

[tsquare]

Just some info on Harminic charts.
[quote]
The Harmonic Charts Of Jyotish, Vedic Astrology
written by Jai Maharaj
Harmonics have always been considered of great importance in Vedic astrology. For example, the ninth harmonic chart, the Navaunsh Varg: (some people write it as "Navamsa"), is very significant in relation to the Moon. This chart is always kept alongside the main Rashi chart when an interpretive report is being written. One derives from it the latent factors operative throughout a person's own and married life.
Ancient sage-scientists determined the relationships between planetary `harmonics' and human affairs and their causative factors. Practitioners of traditional astrology draw from these empirical data, available in the form of Sanskrit verses, in service to their clients.
The modern urge to satisfy the curiosity about the how's and why's of natural laws is often considered a necessity by some. To them, a science is a science only if it can gain entrance through their self-defined gates of intellect. This is one of the chief limiting factors responsible for the current disasters modern science has wrought on mankind, creating more problems than it attempts to solve.
Dr. Percy Seymour, a professor of astronomy in Plymouth, U.K. has his own way of explaining why `harmonics' work. According to him, the Navaunsh chart of Vedic astrology works, for instance, because of the magnetic field of the Moon. Basically, the magnetic field of Earth is reflecting how the planets are moving around the Sun and even how the Earth is moving around the Sun. So, Earth's magnetic field is resonating. Added to this, as the Moon goes around the Earth it affects the tides not only in the ocean but also in the magnetosphere. These have higher-order harmonics and Dr. Seymour's idea of all these tunes being played by the planets on the magnetic field of the Earth naturally gives rise to harmonics.
Percy Seymour then attempts to establish a connection between our electric-current based nervous system and the harmonic fluctuations in the geomagnetic field. So, the complex tunes played by the planets in our magnetic environment affect each one of us in a unique manner -- as if we don't always listen to the whole symphony but only respond to certain melodies. According to Seymour, the way we listen to the selected portions depends on our genetic peculiarities which are themselves related to the harmonics created by the planetary orchestra. Hence, predictions of how we may respond to future planetary positions are possible.
These Varg:, or charts, have been continuously used in Vedic astrology for millennia. The list contains the most commonly used ones of all with a brief note about their application:
Division Used for Determining
Natal Rashi: 1 Overall considerations
Hora (from the Sanskrit
word Ahoratr): 1/2 Personality; wealth, etc.
Drekkan: 1/3 Relationship with siblings
Chaturthaunsh: 1/4 Fixed property, assets, fortune
Saptaunsh: 1/7 Children, extended progeny
Navaunsh: 1/9 Latent Karmic details, marriage
Dashaunsh: 1/10 Power, heroism, career, etc.
Dwadashaunsh: 1/12 Parental, grand-parental factors
Shodashaunsh: 1/16 Means of travel, etc.
Vimshaunsh: 1/20 Karmic seeding, spiritual actions
Chaturvimshaunsh: 1/24 Intellectual pursuits, education
Saptavimshaunsh: 1/27 Special, variable hidden powers
Trimshaunsh: 1/30 Mainly used for females
Swavedaunsh: 1/40 Various attainments
Akshavedaunsh: 1/45 Various achievements
Shashtyaunsh: 1/60 All levels of human activity
Nadi: 1/150 Extremely refined characteristics

[starlink]

Goodness Waybread, ahum indeed, but this time for me because I really have to go over this one again to fully grasp the meaning of it all. I think I do have a book about harmonics (from David Hamblin, "Harmonic Charts") somewhere hanging around, never really read it but I think I will dive a bit into it.
Thank you anyways for writing it all down for me, very helpful indeed.
Do you think we could find more "evil" LOL in that Bad girl's chart? I am still quite surprised that she seemingly is really horrific. Most interesting case really!
Cheers! C.

[starlink]

OH, and another answer with more info!! Thanks to you as well Tsquare!! I think I will print both of your answers out, then settle down somewhere quiet to ponder the whole lot!
Lots to read!
Cheers, Starlink

[doramider7]

Your wife's having a baby?! Congratulations! :D

Or perhaps I'm just getting overexcited and jumping to conclusions again...sorry about that :roll:

Anyway, I've heard it said numerous times that parents are able to intuitively choose the perfect name for their children, one which best resonates with this soul's energy. I think this is fascinating, since it is nearly impossible for those but the most gifted psychics to communicate with their unborn children and know exactly who this soul is--at least on a conscious level. But intuition is not limited to the linear constraints of our 3-D world...it surpasses all boundaries, since none really exist!



Wow, I can't believe all of these sychronicities...especially having my 74th harmonic chart Ascendant at the first degree of Pisces (spirituality)! Thanks again, Radu! :wink:

EDIT: I believe it took me less then a minute after posting this message to think of yet another question. Would there be any interesting effects by taking the sum of your full name and applying that harmonic to your natal chart? I'm incredibly curious to see how all of this may fit together...

Aquarian MaverickRadu, do you know of any good books or websites about harmonics? I'm particularly interested in the grand trines that manifest in almost all of my first nine harmonic charts and the prominant Kite formation in my 7th and 10th...thanks! :mrgreen:

[waybread]

If you want to read harmonic charts, try Harding and Harvey, Working with Astrology, and David Hamblin, Harmonic Charts. You can probably find them via an Internet used book seller like amazon.com or abebooks.

Basically you have to grasp the meaning of the harmonic chart itself--the 7H, 9H, or whatever. Conjunctions indicate the aspect in question, unless there is also a close conjunction in the radix chart. Other aspects suggest whether that harmonic energy flows smoothly or with difficulty; and which planets might be especially important in its interpretation.

[EJ53]

For Information

Originally, harmonics were only used as a means of easily identifying minor aspects that were hard to see in the natal chart...So, the signs/houses of the harmonic chart were considered to be meaningless and the planets are interpreted in the context of their natal chart relationships... http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/harmonics32.1.html

However, (I think) there is now a branch of Harmonic Astrology that treats the Harmonic Chart as revealing detailed insights to to the the same numbered zodiac house (ie. 5th Harmonic Chart = 5th house)....And this branch regards the signs & houses of the harmonic chart as meaningful, with the chart being interpreted in the same way as a normal natal chart (but relating specifically to 5th house activities)... http://www.newage-directory.com/harmonic.htm

Two approaches to the interpretation of harmonic charts that are very different...which has led to confusion between them on AW in the past.

EJ

[waybread]

For Information

However, (I think) there is now a branch of Harmonic Astrology that treats the Harmonic Chart as revealing detailed insights to to the the same numbered zodiac house (ie. 5th Harmonic Chart = 5th house)....And this branch regards the signs & houses of the harmonic chart as meaningful, with the chart being interpreted in the same way as a normal natal chart (but relating specifically to 5th house activities)... http://www.newage-directory.com/harmonic.htm

EJ

EJ, I've read a fair bit about harmonic charts, but this is the only source I've seen that links harmonic numbers with houses!!! Harmonic chart research in modern astrology goes back to John Addey, and actually Vedic astrology has a long history of harmonic chart interpretation. See the books by Harding and Harvey, and David Hamblin cited above.

Rather than linking harmonic charts to house numbers, the usual way is to understand harmonics as just a different way of expressing aspects.
1H: the radix chart, conjunctions
2H: the opposition (360/2)
3H: the trine (360/3)
4H: the square (360/4, &c)
5H: quintiles (talent, initiative, "the number of man")
6H: sextiles
7H: septiles (inspiration, oftentimes the discipline to manifest it)
8H: semi- and sesqui-squares, as well as the 2H and 4H aspects
9H: novile (what gives delight, also a number of initiation)

When you get beyond these numbers, you are often dealing with compound numbers. For example, the 10H combines the 2-series (tension) with the 5-series (talent, ambition).

[EJ53]

EJ, I've read a fair bit about harmonic charts, but this is the only source I've seen that links harmonic numbers with houses!!! Harmonic chart research in modern astrology goes back to John Addey, and actually Vedic astrology has a long history of harmonic chart interpretation. See the books by Harding and Harvey, and David Hamblin cited above.
I know, Way......and (like most astrologers aged 40+) I view harmonic charts as you do...

...But, (I believe) younger astrologers see it differently...so, we need to be aware that not everyone is singing from the same hymnbook when referring to the interpretation of harmonic charts...Hence (for example), the confusion on the following thread :-

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15852&highlight=Harmonic

EJ

[Sadalsuud]

I noticed in my natal chart's 90th harmonic both a hexagram and a pentagram:

http://oi53.tinypic.com/2d855z8.jpg

[Bina]

Does anyone have any more ideas or info on 11th harmonic charts? What I've found so far has not been very clear...

[waybread]

I don't think a lot has been written on it. Supposedly it is a kind of Uranian, disruptive energy, but whether that's based on an assumed link between Uranus-11th house-Aquarius or actual research, I can't say.

The late comedian George Carlin had a very sarcastic, anti-status quo wit. Here is his 11th harmonic chart. Conjunctions in a harmonic chart--unless they were close conjunctions in the natal chart--indicate that the individual has the harmonic (aspect) in question.

[Alice McDermott]

Now that I have somewhat recovered, another question has presented itself to my consciousness--what is the relationship, if any, between numerology and astrology? I have observed that harmonics seem to express the characteristics or influence of the number from which they are derived, but I suppose a more in-depth analyze would be needed to verify this idea.

Also, there are many different core numbers in astrology, such as one's lifepath number (9), destiny number (22), soul urge (1*), inner dreams (3*), and of course the date of birth (5). Would these core numbers be reflected by astrological harmonic charts?

Aquarian Maverick



I really do think that the numbers of your birthdate and your name have a strong correlation to powerful harmonics in your natal chart.

I played around with this concept for a long time and eventually wrote an article about it here: http://aliceportman.com/?p=164 using President Obama's birthdate numbers and his natal chart and here: http://aliceportman.com/?p=248 using Prince Charles.

Both these articles only cover the birthdays and birthdate totals, but I have found name numbers are just as powerful.

I have run workshops on this concept using the charts of the Royal Family.

and, as Radu mentions, the full numbers of the birthdate and name can be used as these harmonics are extremely powerful.

Alice

[Alice McDermott]

Does anyone have any more ideas or info on 11th harmonic charts? What I've found so far has not been very clear...

The Axial Harmonics site has some really excellent work on the different harmonics. You can access it here: http://harmonics.50megs.com/Introduction.html

Alice

[dr. farr]

Seems like the Greco/Roman astrologers also had a kind of "harmonics" in their application of the dodekatemorion principle, ie, every planet or other horoscopic point was delineated not only in its "place" but also in the "place" where its dodek falls: the dominant dodek method was the Egyptian, where the original place of planet, Lot or other horoscopic point was multiplied by 12 to find its dodek (apparently, its 12th harmonic) Paulus of Alexandria used a mulitplier of 13 to find the dodek (a 13h harmonic), and I have made most use of the Pauline dodek for these investigations...

[Alice McDermott]

Seems like the Greco/Roman astrologers also had a kind of "harmonics" in their application of the dodekatemorion principle, ie, every planet or other horoscopic point was delineated not only in its "place" but also in the "place" where its dodek falls: the dominant dodek method was the Egyptian, where the original place of planet, Lot or other horoscopic point was multiplied by 12 to find its dodek (apparently, its 12th harmonic) Paulus of Alexandria used a mulitplier of 13 to find the dodek (a 13h harmonic), and I have made most use of the Pauline dodek for these investigations...

Yes, ancient astrologers in both the western and vedic traditions seemed to have quite extensively used harmonics.

I was enthralled to read on the Chris Brennan forum that astrologers in the far past were also working with duad degrees :surprised::surprised: they were calculating them by hand - at least, before Solar Fire made the facility available, I had a calculator to help me.

There really is nothing new under the sun. I thought I had discovered duad degrees, but what I seem to have done is re-discover this technique. Now we have programs that can quickly calculate them it is much easier to see how powerful they are in genetic astrology, birth timing etc.

Alice

[JUPITERASC]

Yes, ancient astrologers in both the western and vedic traditions seemed to have quite extensively used harmonics. I was enthralled to read on the Chris Brennan forum that astrologers in the far past were also working with duad degrees :surprised::surprised: they were calculating them by hand - at least, before Solar Fire made the facility available, I had a calculator to help me. There really is nothing new under the sun. I thought I had discovered duad degrees, but what I seem to have done is re-discover this technique. Now we have programs that can quickly calculate them it is much easier to see how powerful they are in genetic astrology, birth timing etc. Alice

link to an article on the over two thousand year old dwad technique http://www.astrologysoftware.com/resources/articles/getarticle.asp?ID=165 aka dodecatemories that makes interesting reading! :smile:

[dr. farr]

Actually the author of the article in the above link, is applying Porphyry's "dodecatemory of the Moon" technique, to other planets in addition to the Moon (this technique is not that of Manilius-which historical fact is made clear by the translators of Manilius "Astronomica": regardless of this, however, this specific dodecatemory technique was an important one in Greco/Roman astrology, and seems to have been first elaborated -or at least first described in the remaining extant literature of the time-by Porphyry)

[dr. farr]

Thought I would add some clarifications about the words "dodekatemorion", "duodenary", "duad/dwad", "dodecatemory"-because a good deal of confusion exists about what these strange words refer to, which often leads to the same term being applied to different things!

-First: "dodekatemorion" (sometimes "dodekatemoria" is used)
This term has 2 meanings, both actually being correct

:Meaning #1: sign 1/12ths, ie, 2.5 degree areas of a sign, each sign having 12 such divisions (this is the meaning of the Vedic word "dwadashama" as well, and is also the most common meaning of the term "dwad")

: Meaning #2: a TECHNIQUE for determining the "ramification place" of a planet or other horoscopic element: there are two forms of this technique

Form #1 (known as Egyptian dodekatemorion; its the most commonly followed of these techniques): multiply the place of the planet or other horoscopic point by 12; starting with the original sign placement of the panet or other horoscopic point, subtract 30 degrees from the result until you cannot subtract by 30 any more: what is leftover is the degree placement-the "dodek"=of the planet or other horoscopic point

Form #2 (known as Pauline dodekatemorion; rarely practiced over the past 1200 years): multiply the place of the planet or other horoscopic point by 13, and then proceed exactly as in Form #1 to find the "dodek" (notice that although a multiplier factor of 13 is used it is still referred to as "dodekatemorion", even though that word correctly refers to something to do with "twelves")



Next: "duodenary", "duodenaries" (plural)

This term has the same meaning as Meaning #1 under "dodekatemorion", ie, the 1/12th area of a sign (and therefore is synonymous with the terms "dwad" and "dwadashama")


Next: "duad", "duads" (plural)
Can have 2 meanings:

Meaning #1: same as duodenary, dwad, ie, the 1/12th area of a sign

Meaning #2: same as Meaning #2 for "dodekatemorion", above, ie, reference to the point found by application of either Egyptian or (rarely) Pauline dodekatemorion techniques, as described above



Finally, "dodecatemory", "dodecatemories" (plural)
This refers to an entirely different TECHNIQUE than either Egyptian or Pauline dodekatemorion, and is also a different concept than that of sign 1/12ths; this technique was widely used in Greco/Roman astrology, mostly in reference to finding the "dodecatemory of the Moon", and was described by Porphyry in the 3rd century AD; this distinct technique is outlined in the introduction to Manilius "Astronomica", and, applied to planets other than the Moon, is outlined in the reference link given by JUPITERASC in an earlier post to this thread.

[JUPITERASC]

Thought I would add some clarifications about the words "dodekatemorion", "duodenary", "duad/dwad", "dodecatemory"-because a good deal of confusion exists about what these strange words refer to, which often leads to the same term being applied to different things!

-First: "dodekatemorion" (sometimes "dodekatemoria" is used)
This term has 2 meanings, both actually being correct

:Meaning #1: sign 1/12ths, ie, 2.5 degree areas of a sign, each sign having 12 such divisions (this is the meaning of the Vedic word "dwadashama" as well, and is also the most common meaning of the term "dwad")

: Meaning #2: a TECHNIQUE for determining the "ramification place" of a planet or other horoscopic element: there are two forms of this technique

Form #1 (known as Egyptian dodekatemorion; its the most commonly followed of these techniques): multiply the place of the planet or other horoscopic point by 12; starting with the original sign placement of the panet or other horoscopic point, subtract 30 degrees from the result until you cannot subtract by 30 any more: what is leftover is the degree placement-the "dodek"=of the planet or other horoscopic point

Form #2 (known as Pauline dodekatemorion; rarely practiced over the past 1200 years): multiply the place of the planet or other horoscopic point by 13, and then proceed exactly as in Form #1 to find the "dodek" (notice that although a multiplier factor of 13 is used it is still referred to as "dodekatemorion", even though that word correctly refers to something to do with "twelves")

Next: "duodenary", "duodenaries" (plural) This term has the same meaning as Meaning #1 under "dodekatemorion", ie, the 1/12th area of a sign (and therefore is synonymous with the terms "dwad" and "dwadashama")

Next: "duad", "duads" (plural) Can have 2 meanings:

Meaning #1: same as duodenary, dwad, ie, the 1/12th area of a sign

Meaning #2: same as Meaning #2 for "dodekatemorion", above, ie, reference to the point found by application of either Egyptian or (rarely) Pauline dodekatemorion techniques, as described above

Finally, "dodecatemory", "dodecatemories" (plural)
This refers to an entirely different TECHNIQUE than either Egyptian or Pauline dodekatemorion, and is also a different concept than that of sign 1/12ths; this technique was widely used in Greco/Roman astrology, mostly in reference to finding the "dodecatemory of the Moon", and was described by Porphyry in the 3rd century AD; this distinct technique is outlined in the introduction to Manilius "Astronomica", and, applied to planets other than the Moon, is outlined in the reference link given by JUPITERASC in an earlier post to this thread.

Thank you very much dr. farr – as ever you have thoughtfully provided expert clarification on this matter :smile: With reference to the root meanings of the word 'duad' here is an interesting note from the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
duad
n.
A unit of two objects; a pair.
[Greek duas, duad-, two, from duo; see dwo- in Indo-European roots.]

and from Collins English Dictionary:
duad
n
a rare word for pair
[from Greek duas two, a pair]

and an online Thesaurus of Synonyms and Related Words states
Noun
duad - two items of the same kind
for which the following synonyms or related words are provided: couplet, distich, duet, duo, dyad, twain, twosome, brace, pair, span, yoke, couple, fellow, mate - one of a pair; "he lost the mate to his shoe"; "one eye was blue but its fellow was brown"

[Fulcrum]

The Axial Harmonics site has some really excellent work on the different harmonics. You can access it here: http://harmonics.50megs.com/Introduction.html

Alice

Wow, I'll say. Some deep stuff in there. Thanks for that.

At the risk of cross-posting—I'm still finding my way around the fora, so please forgive me if this steps on any toes—I asked this question and posted this graphic in another thread here where some of you were discussing the Yod. Maybe a mod can move this to a more appropriate spot, if this isn't it either?

Anyway, I found this in my 4th harmonic chart. I'm inclined to think it's Chiron (my "wounded healer" and, according to the Magi, my romance significator) and Juno (my long-term relationship significator) ganging up on Mercury (communications) to force me to do something that doesn't really come naturally to me regarding my relations with the fairer gender. Am I way off the mark?

Fulcrum takes cover behind some nearby rocks and waits for the anti-Magi contingent to begin pelting him with rotten produce

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=23714&d=1320128222

[Bina]

The Axial Harmonics site has some really excellent work on the different harmonics. You can access it here: http://harmonics.50megs.com/Introduction.html

Alice

Thanks for posting this link, interesting stuff and a new perspective!

[Thomas James Haller]

Although I tried to (temporarily) stuff my Virgo South Node in a burlap sack, it found a clever way of escaping and urged me to create this new board about harmonics instead of risking off-topic posting.

This question is for Radu, starting from where the 11:11 Phenonemon Board (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=960) left off:



Aquarian Maverick

I would be extremely interested to find out if there are any connections to numerology and astrology.

What I would like to see is a chart comparison between Hitler and Romney, being they are a mirrored match using forward/reverse numerology.

Hitler = 72/90
Romney = 90/72

I have this feeling that Romney is here to complete the 3rd world war.

Obama's numbers are as cold as they get, no interesting matches using any of his names.

Ray Mabus has very hot numbers, as does Putin.

It would be interesting to see the astrology between these two men:

Raymond Mabus = 146/178
Sergei Ivanov = 146/178 (former Minister of Defense, and current Chief of Staff in Russia)

___________________________________

Speaking of Mabus, what has really surprised the heck out of me is how everybody completely missed the solid Nostradamus hit about July 1999, and the rise of Hu Jintao, when he was given the task of persecuting Falun Gong in China. Falun Gong (Law Wheel Practice) people are being used for medical experiments in China, reminiscent of WWII atrocities. Jintao is a f*cking monster.