Who will win the US Presidential Elections in 2008?

[Radu]

Well, I haven't received the proper horary question on this subject yet, nor I could find one asked to some other astrologer and posted on the internet. So, no prediction yet.

But here's my challenge to you: if you feel involved and stirred by the US 2008 Presidential Elections and feel that you'd really want to know the answer, send me a message with your question, well phrased, clear and genuine. Or even better, if you are familiar with horary, you could write down your own data for your question.


Otherwise I will use the moment when your question arrives and my location in order to erect the horary chart and will post the chart delineation here, on this page. Should several such questions arrive, they will be all published here and it'll be quite interesting to try to identify common patterns and differences.


So... "Bring 'em on!" (as a proeminent public figure used to say)
Radu

[archergirl]

I can't bear to ask one, Radu! So much sits on this election...all I know is, Barack Obama announced his candidacy for President during a VOC Moon (I'm fairly sure), which doesn't bode well, but we will have to wait to see who gets the nomination for each party. McCain is pretty much a shoo-in for the Republicans, but the Democratic nomination is hotly, nail-bitingly close.

Best,
AG:)

[Radu]

Whoops! I read somewhere that candidates to US presidency who announced their intentions during a VOC Moon failed...

I've got a question:

Who will win the US president election?
19:39, Leeds, England, 22nd February 2008.

Asked by a British, so it needs some chart turning.

[KayBug]

I cannot tell you why. I have no astrological data to back it up what so ever. This is not a who do I want to win answer either. I believe Hillary Clinton will win. This is a gut instinct and intuition answer. It just seems something will make all tides change and she will win.

[fensi88]

By Chinese astrology and theory of 5 element McCain has best chance to win! He was born in year of fire yang rat and now is earth yin rat and because fire supports earth I think he has best chance.

[VenusInAries]

I didn't look at progressions or lunar return for november for all of them..but with Mccain he has Saturn oppose his natal saturn from 12th to 6th..also conjuncting his venus ruler of his 8th house.. I personally think he is gonna have health issues or his age will play a role of him being denied.

Looking at Hilary's ugh ::making face:: no offense to those that support her but she has Neptune square her Mercury right now I think she is a big fat liar.. she has Moon right on her MC and transiting pluto is right on her 7th house squaring that moon and in Nov..Uranus will be creeping up to that moon and 10th house.. chiron and north node will be opposite her mars pluto conjunction and mars does rule her 11th house..I use 11th house since it rules government intities.. however you spell that word..

So with her it's a toss up I see stuff that umm yeah okay..but really if she does and she has that neptune square her mercury I won't trust her as far as I can throw her..

Now Obama.. He has leo rising.. a bunch of planets in leo..including his part of fortune..getting hit by that chiron and north node conjunction in aquarius..he will also have saturn conjunct his mars in the 2nd..pluto will be oppose his venus.. venus is in the 11th house..venus rules his 10th..I say it's gonna be Obama..but again didn't look at progressions or lunar returns for that month.

[fensi88]

To see Obama's and Mccain's chart go to this link:
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/data-archive/us-presidential-candidates-2008.php

[VenusInAries]

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i14/lovegrove1/McCainJohn.jpg

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i14/lovegrove1/Obama.jpg

[VenusInAries]

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i14/lovegrove1/hclinton.jpg

Hilary's Chart

[Moulin]

personally l think Hillary's outburst today has just lost the presidency for her. Resorting to dirty tactics to put Obama down is really so trite considering her intelligence, just because she is out of her depth!

Where would this type of behavior show up in her chart?

[Moulin]

McCain is older than the oldest oven chip!
He looks like they wheel him out of the funeral home every day and l think America doesn't need another Republican as leader.

He is a war veteran and yet he wants to stay in Iraq for a 100 years? Get this guy out of my sight! uffffff......

Ah, Leo rising for Obama! That sorted that out then Venus. :D

That is the thing with McCain, age is a huge factor which would hold him back and maybe persuade voters to go for someone else.

Any idea what to look at with the horary? Not sure at all.

[archergirl]

Age probably won't be a deterrent. Reagan was voted in at 70-72 years old, I recall.

Interesting, however, that all three candidates have very late-degree moons; McCain's only aspect before going VOC is an opposition to Pluto. Wouldn't want to mess with him, man.:p

Cheers,
AG:)

[fensi88]

One more chinese prediction:
http://www.aglobal.com.sg/pdf/US_Election_Analysis-Dec2007.pdf

[sitting with saturn]

As much as I want Obama to win, my intuition is telling me its gonna be McCain. I hope I am wrong.

[astrofonder]

I think there r chanaces to win republican party candidate whoever it may be.Because republican party is ruled by jupiter & democratic by saturn. According to geocentric system jupiter is in saggitarius this year while saturn in leo. so republicans r strong.

[rohitshanker]

This is taken from an Indian astrology website, the astrologer is world renouned

Obama may have an edge:

The US President Election 2008 is heating up. The real heat is not between democrat and republic candidates but severe fighting is taking place between bold Obama and resilient Hillary Clinton. Hillary Clinton was the First Lady of America for eight years and has seen the working of an ex-president from close quarters for two terms. She is supported by a powerful lobby which is led by smart and brainy Bill Clinton. Barack Obama is known for his bold statements like emphasizing ending the Iraq war, increasing energy independence and providing universal health care. His appeal is being heard by people at large. Republic candidate John McCain is the most senior among his two opponents and a respected candidate who is going to fight against one of these democrat candidates in US 2008 President Election.

Let us see astrologically what is in store for all these three candidates through the prism of astrology. We have the birth details of all the stalwarts which we have taken from different websites. These websites claim that these are authenticated data. If they are right then we cannot go wrong in our analysis.
Hillary Clinton:

Date of birth – October 26, 1947, Time of Birth – 20.00 Hrs., Place of birth – Chicago – Illinois (USA)

Barack Obama:

Date of birth – August 4, 1961, Time of Birth – 13.06 Hrs., Place of birth – Honolulu – Hawaii (USA)

John S. McCain:

Date of birth – August 29, 1936, Time of Birth – 09.00 Hrs., Place of birth – Cocosolo (Panama)


Hillary Clinton:

At the time of Hillary Clinton’s birth Gemini ascendant was rising on the eastern horizon and planets configuration was as such: Mars, Saturn – Cancer, Sun, Venus, Mercury – Libra, Jupiter, Ketu – Scorpio, Moon – Pisces and Rahu in Taurus.

Prarabdh (Past Birth Deeds):

Hillary Clinton was born when Gemini ascendant was rising on the eastern horizon. Lagna lord is well placed in the 5th house along with Sun and Mercury. These planets put together form two powerful Rajayogas. These Rajayogas are taking place in the 5th house which denotes creative intelligence and prarabdh (past birth deeds).

Prarabdh (past birth deeds) sounds most appropriate in this case. In this life certain things you earn and there are certain things which you get by the dint of good luck or prarabdh. Hillary Clinton’s marriage to Bill Clinton is the outcome of prarabdh which has set the pace for her to go for US President Election 2008. We are not taking away the credit of her creative instincts but prarabdh has played a more important role in this case.

Emotional Tussle:

Placement of debiliated Mars and Saturn in the 2nd house gives conflicting results. This house deals with family environment and gives family background also to an extent. In astrology, conjunction of Mars and Saturn indicates that a lot of storm and turbulence has taken place at the emotional level before the dust settled down as far as family peace and harmony is concerned. The whole world knows the Clintons had a very tough time in their marriage once upon a time.

Strong willed woman:

Placement of Jupiter and Ketu in the 6th house is alright. Jupiter does lose some of its glamour and sheen when placed in the 6th house. Being the lord of 7th when Jupiter occupies the 6th house it does give indication of discord in wedlock and the person has to fight most of her battles on her own. No wonder Hillary is resilience par excellence and always fights out her battle whether it is personal or professional, with vengeance.

Her own person:

The Moon has occupied the 10th house which denotes that she has a mind of her own. In astrology Moon represents mind. The Moon has formed two trines with Mars, Saturn and Jupiter. In astrology, trines are considered the best and give wonderful results. This configuration is so good that it has brought her at that level and Obama is feeling the heat of it. Placement of Rahu in the 12th house is good.

Mahadasa Results:

In her chart major period of Saturn is in operation which will continue for many more years. At present Sun – Rahu are in operation till December 2008. The Sun has occupied the 5th house and Rahu is placed in the 12th house. Both the planets are quite strong in the chart but ill aligned from each other. However in navamsa chart both the planets have again gained a lot of strength. Perhaps this is the reason that Hillary Clinton is fighting hard her battle and cruising close to Obama’s tally. Since, primarily both the planets are weak in the chart, it does not assure her the top post but she could be offered to be Deputy of Obama.


Barack Obama:

At the time of Barack Obama’s birth Libra lagna was rising on the eastern horizon and the planetary configuration is as under: Saturn, Jupiter – Capricorn, Ketu – Aquarius, Moon – Taurus, Venus – Gemini, Sun, Mercury – Cancer and Mars, Rahu in Leo.

Head of State:

The lord of lagna is beautifully placed in the 9th house which represents luck. This placement of planet promises that one could be the head of State, if other planets contribute the same way as lagna lord has projected in the chart.

Buddhaditya Rajayoga:

Due to the placement of Sun and Mercury in the 10th house a powerful “Buddhaditya Rajayoga’ has taken place. This rajayoga makes the person bold, intelligent, a tactician and foresighted too. Saturn and Jupiter are placed in the 4th house. Both these planets are involved in a mutual aspect with Sun and Mercury. This phenomenon indicates that success will not come easily to Obama and he has to fight tooth and nail till the last.

Fulfillment of Cherished Goal:

Placement of Mars and Rahu in the 11th house is very good. This house indicates huge gains and fulfillment of long cherished desires. This house also indicates friends and well wishers across the globe. We foresee that Obama will win over many friends and admirers throughout the globe in the coming years.

Placement of Moon in the 8th house gives mixed results. Being the lord of 10th i.e. position (karma), the placement of Moon is detrimental to an extent in getting the desired results. Nothing comes easily and doubt and fear exists till the last count.

Mahadasa Results:

In his chart major period of Jupiter will continue for many more years. Jupiter – Venus will continue till 10th of August 2008. Jupiter has occupied the 4th house and Venus is placed in the 9th. Independently both the planets are very strong in the chart but wrongly aligned from each other. Due to this very reason Obama is not able to establish a clear lead against her party arc rival Hillary Clinton. However marginally he is still ahead of her. We believe Hillary Clinton can tie him down for a while but Obama is fighting next election as a democratic candidate against McCain. His good period of Jupiter – Sun will begin from August 2008 for the next one year. Both are beautifully placed in the chart which clearly indicates that he will be the winner.

John S. McCain:


John McCain was born when Virgo ascendant was rising on the eastern horizon and the planetary placement was as such: Mercury – Virgo, Jupiter – Scorpio, Rahu – Sagittarius, Moon – Capricorn, Saturn – Aquarius, Ketu – Gemini, Mars – Cancer and Sun, Venus in Leo.

Panch Mahapurush Rajayoga:

At the time of McCain’s birth Virgo ascendant was rising on the eastern horizon and lord of lagna is well placed in the lagna itself. The placement of Mercury has given rise to a powerful rajayoga called ‘Bhadra’. This rajayoga comes under the category of “Panch Mahapurush Rajayoga” which promises great success in life.

Great Fighter:

Placement of Jupiter in the 3rd house is very encouraging. This house deals with prowess and we all know that McCain was a great fighter throughout his life. As a matter of fact he comes from the family of fighters. Rahu has occupied the 4th house and Ketu is placed in the 10th. This placement of planets gives good results to the native as far as career is concerned.

Difficulty in final competition:

Moon has occupied the 5th house, the house of creativity which denotes good growth in life. Saturn has occupied the 6th house which is good. Sun and Venus are placed in the 12th house which is alright. All these planets are involved in a mutual aspect with gives mixed results. Since this house also deals with competition and indicates initial success but later on negativity takes over. Debiliated Mars has occupied the 11th house which by and large is alright.

Mahadasa Results:

In his chart Saturn’s mahadasa is at its fag end. This dasa will come to end in April 2009. At present Saturn – Jupiter are in operation. Both the planets are well aligned from each other but dasa is at its fag end. In astrology when dasa is ending it does not give great results. Therefore we assume that McCain will go down fighting US President Election 2008.


Final Result:

After analyzing the horoscope of Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and John McCain, we come to conclusion that Barack Obama will be the next President of America.

[fensi88]

Thanks for this detailed explanation. The problem is that we have exact time of birth only for McCain, but for others 2 candidates I sow different data for their birth time (as we post before).

[Apollon]

I got this type of question from my friend today. My analysis reveals that the next president has some connection with military. I think it should be Mccain!

If that is possible. Maybe, from now on, there's something happens that make US people confident in Mccain than in his rival.

[Moulin]

Dear God,

Please don't let McCain become President. It will be the most disastrous thing to happen to the world since the American's voted Bush in for a 2nd term.

I implore you to re-consider. This will have long term implications for the world.

......

If McCain gets in, it's all over for the States, that's for sure. There will be middle eastern countries declaring war on the USA, the economy will be worse than Mexico or Cuba. Anyone who votes for McCain is signing their own death sentence, imho.

[fensi88]

Probably you think that because Ma in that chart is "strong". Did you read Rady;s analyses of 2 horary charts about this quesation? Go to read if you did not:
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/more-horary/next-us-president.php
He expained that Ma as youg man and think Obama will win.
But I also think as you that that Ma can signify some connection with military, or war prone person,i.e McCain.

[tikana]

Moulin

you shouldnt be so critical of McCain.. pretty much all candidates are panzies. The top 3 concerns on american hands are 1. figuring out how to get out of Iraq/Afganistan (we are running out of money to pay the soldiers.. t)
2. putting control over oil prices
3. health care/economy

Democrats NEVER EVER had a strong cabinet
Republicans HAD! I am not a fan of McCain but if Obama continues to act like a b*tch, my vote goes to McCain.

I dont know what they are feeding you in UK but i will not vote for a whining candidate!

Goca.. no offence to Radu but if you remember there is a horary on Bush. Bush is still alive no assasinations on him. I dont think it is Obama. Middle American states are less likely to vote for Obama.

cheers
Tik

[tsquare]

Why hasn't anyone heard of Ron Paul......I don't think he's out of it yet.
I really thought he would be.....but I don't know:)kind of excited...won't get my hopes up though...the internet is really going to effect the elections this year or at least the awareness of them in a great way....things are happening now....so many changes...and there is that Pluto moving into Cap. thing...however that will turn out...
This guy is great and he is gaining in support, has the money as well it sounds. I love his foreign Policy.
Here is a Vid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWMDF92ZE7c&eurl=http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=1498&page=54).

God no...not McCain....nononononononononononononono:eek:....ple ase no....:(
Bring em home.
Edit:(laugh)(that looks like whining don't it Tik,...Me no wine, me say Bring em Home.(slams club on ground))

I found a rectified chart of Ron Paul out there somewhere, I may post it later when I find the time, on another thread, since this is horrary, but I was just suprised not to see his name here.....

I don't know if it is because nobody has heard of him or if it's just simply were so used to having the prime, retard canidates elected that anyone else that runs is instantly either ignored or the thought may be "well that would be nice but....it's just not going to happen.".
It could have to do with the press as well, writing canidates off....they learned the hard way not too long ago to not alter information when it concerns Ron Paul......I don't have the data on this but came across it not too far back....I don't really like politics, so I don't spend too much time in it or I feel degraded after some time....and I havn't had the time lately to follow things like I would like too....(angry face)
He's not really a republican in the republican sence that we have witnessed over the past few years.....this fellow is something else...The video above is somewhat telling of his charector.
I'll be checking out his book soon....I have some friends that are real excited about this chap.:):)


I think Clinton is done.....
I dont much like Obama, or McCain,(not saying I like Clinton,(laugh)) but would take Obama over McCain anyday.

Don't know how to ask a proper horrary question.....at least someone who didn't know of this fellow can ask at some time in the future.
I'd like to see more of him.....he's a real interesting fellow and turning some heads.....he's a strong supporter of the original constitution.
I still do not know enough on him.

Anyways, thought I'd drop his name and a vid to spark some curiousity.
Can I say again I really like this guy?(laugh)
We can all dream, some come true,
Tsquare

[fensi88]

Don't know how to ask a proper horrary question.....
I will tell you how to ask...because you hate McCain ask if he will win elections and than analyse chart...McCain will be represented with 7 house ruler...

[tsquare]

I'll PM you Fensi88.

[Moulin]

LOL

They feed me well, trust me. Well enough to know that l would have never voted Bush in for a 2nd term and that McCain is going to lead your country to WAR.

BTW, whose whining? ;)

Moulin

you shouldnt be so critical of McCain.. pretty much all candidates are panzies. The top 3 concerns on american hands are 1. figuring out how to get out of Iraq/Afganistan (we are running out of money to pay the soldiers.. t)
2. putting control over oil prices
3. health care/economy

Democrats NEVER EVER had a strong cabinet
Republicans HAD! I am not a fan of McCain but if Obama continues to act like a b*tch, my vote goes to McCain.

I dont know what they are feeding you in UK but i will not vote for a whining candidate!

Goca.. no offence to Radu but if you remember there is a horary on Bush. Bush is still alive no assasinations on him. I dont think it is Obama. Middle American states are less likely to vote for Obama.

cheers
Tik

[tikana]

Moulin

Obama is whining so is Clinton!

McCain is just screaming... wait till he starts the whine

grrrr
Tik

[AineB]

Looking at Hilary's ugh ::making face:: no offense to those that support her but she has Neptune square her Mercury right now I think she is a big fat liar.. she has Moon right on her MC and transiting pluto is right on her 7th house squaring that moon and in Nov..Uranus will be creeping up to that moon and 10th house.. chiron and north node will be opposite her mars pluto conjunction and mars does rule her 11th house..I use 11th house since it rules government intities.. however you spell that word..

So with her it's a toss up I see stuff that umm yeah okay..but really if she does and she has that neptune square her mercury I won't trust her as far as I can throw her..

Hahaha!! Yeah I kinda get that from her too.. and if you've seen Michael Moore's "Sicko", you'd really have to wonder about her whole health care plan seeing as she was paid off by the pharmeceutical companies. :mad: Though at the same time she could have just took the money to appease them and if she were to become president I'm sure she'd have no problem going back on her words!

I too have been wondering what could possibly happen with Ron Paul... he seems to really have his ducks in a row and wants to make a better change for the US. The only other canidate I thought might do us good was Mitt Romney, but he's up and left the race. As far as I can find, Ron Paul was born August 20th, 1935 in Greentree, PA (also listed as Pittsburgh... Greentree is a kinda like a suburb; I used to live in "da 'burgh".. it's confusing how they change up their "city" names). There has been mention of a rectified chart at 7:45am... and also at 6pm.

Until we change our voting system anyways it won't really matter who the "people" pick!! :(

[starlink]

Moulin, I would not worry too much about McCain. Even if he should win (which I doubt) he really has health problems and probably will not last long, flattened down by illness. It is then his vice-president we really have to look at in this case!

Cheers, Star.

[starlink]

Radu, for me it is much easier to ask: will ..... win the US presidency, then to ask Who will win.....
So I asked: Will Hillary win the US Presidency and will pm you my interpretation on this.
Cheers, Star.

[Radu]

Radu, for me it is much easier to ask: will ..... win the US presidency, then to ask Who will win.....
So I asked: Will Hillary win the US Presidency and will pm you my interpretation on this.
Cheers, Star.
Do you have the horary chart data for this question?
Btw, I already received the same question (asked March 3) see here http://www.astrologyweekly.com/more-horary/hillary-clinton-president.php

[starlink]

Yes, the data are: Today (11th May 2008), 13.00 exactly in Baar, Switzerland.
I will look at the other question, see if there are similarities, would be interesting.
I noticed that in the first question asked by the Brit, you took the the 9th house for America and then the 10th of the 9th for the president. But that is then more done this way because it is more of an open question "Who will be etc." am I right?

I actually would like to do it a bit different. As I have no direct connection or interest in this person (only in the matter surrounding her), I put her on the Ascendant, making the 10th the quisited. Would that be totally wrong?

I will have a look at the other question, to see whom they put on the Ascendant.

By the way, in those two examples given, it was only done between the two male candidates (as if the female had no chance anymore). But I look at the Moon also as the female person.

Another question, in both examples, should we not look at the 10th of the 10th?? (The next president?) Aquarius on the MC might show the actual president, ruler Saturn in the 4th (he is coming to his end).

Just a thought::) Cheers, Star.

[starlink]

Oh, just a little peep into my chart. Ascendant is 25°Leo (this is Obama) and the South Node conjunct his Asc. at 23° Leo. Sun peregrine in Taurus.....
Cheers, Star.

[KayBug]

AineB.....You are correct. Until the voting system changes it will not matter who the people pick. The delegates and superdelegates chose who will run and they are not bound to popular (peoples) vote.

Just throwing this in for thought. I have talked to many people in my area who are life long democrats. They have all said if Obama gets the nomination they will vote for McCain. Now, people are basically the same everywhere. Yes, they have their own thoughts and ideas but there is alot that is basically the same.

Honestly I don't think we have much to pick from. To bad and if money could be taken out of this game it might be a tad different. There are plenty of qualified candidates/people for this job but as we all know; money makes the world go round.

[LostVegas]

Moulin, I would not worry too much about McCain. Even if he should win (which I doubt) he really has health problems and probably will not last long, flattened down by illness. It is then his vice-president we really have to look at in this case!

Cheers, Star.I think some people think McCain might succomb to Alzheimer's or something, while in office, like Reagan. But let's keep in firmly in mind that Alzheimer's can effect people as early as their 40's. Strange, that people think a younger age of a candidate ensures better health and state of mind.

[tikana]

LOL LostVegas!

[LostVegas]

I'll vote for Bi-racial (he's not black, give credit where credit is due!) when, and if, he finally announces that if he had been in the Senate back in 2003, he, like just about everyone else, would have voted for the War in Iraq. I'm tired of his free ride on this issue! It's his dictatorial, controlling Capricorn wife (another Raisa Gorbachev) that scares me the most as women are, and always will be, the power behind the thrones. She told her loving husband he was not going to run for the President until he quit smoking (how many boxes of Nicorette has this poor guy gone through during this campaign!) When he gave his famous speech back in 2004 a the Democratic convention, someone heard Michelle tell him, before going to the podium: You better not ***** this up, buddy! Well, what can you expect from a bossy Capricorn! All the Cardinal signs, inherently, are never happy unless they're running the show (like double Cardinal Nancy Reagan). They SHOULD have a debate between the powers behind the thrones as, indisputedly, they end up being co-presidents. If more people would concentrate their dissection on Michelle Obama, he would certain lose some of his popularity, she's the pusher, the shover, no question about it. Who's going to win? The answer to that question is who are Hillary's ardent suporters going to turn to IF they nominate bi-racial Obama. Are they suddenly going to throw their arms and legs around Obama? I don't think so! And McCain has both the advantage and disadvantge of being a slippery Mutable sign (Hillary's slipperiness from her Moon in Pisces). And, he's got that great dark (Moon in Capricorn) ironic sense of humor which could win some votes, in itself. After his defeat of Bush in the New Hampshire primary back in 2000, and there was a celebration in a restaurant afterwards, with his campaign staff, a news correspondent walked in on this party, with ice cubes, crackers and silverware being thrown around the table, and asked McCain, who these people were, he replied: Oh! This is my campaign staff! They're prisoners from work release programs!
And the same correspondent asked him where he got his energy one time, he replied (standing next to his wife) with a smirk: Oh! I just throw a tantrum! Throw a chair against a wall, break a window, or I beat up my wife! Myself, I have that same ironic dark sense of humor with a similar Capricorn Moon, and, yes, I can laugh and laugh with that brand of humor, which I display neverendingly. We all know Leo has got to be present somewhere in the charts of prominent presidential candidates. All three of them have it. Mars in hair-trigger temper Leo for both Hillary and McCain. Has anyone picked up on the similarities between Bill Clinton and Obama: Sun in Leo, Moon in ever-so-charming, charasmatic Tauraus, and Mercury in Leo? Has anyone else found this interesting? But, my guess, after all this rambling, is McCain is going to make it to the White House, like it or not.

[LostVegas]

I saw one chart on Obama showing his Moon in Gemini. Oh come on! With a Moon like that he would have had both his mistress and his wife helping him out on his campaign, and even with that, he would have given up long before the Texas primary. Tauraus never gives up, nor does Scorpio (Hillary). Where does all his steely strength come from? I certainly don't ascribe much strength to his Mars in Virgo (mutable). Even more than Leo, I would say his Tauraus Moon, and pushing from behind, or dragging with a rope, is his steely Capricorn wife. Hasn't studies been made, proclaiming Capricorn to be the strongest sign of the zodiac?

[tikana]

I'll vote for Bi-racial (he's not black, give credit where credit is due!) when, and if, he finally announces that if he had been in the Senate back in 2003, he, like just about everyone else, would have voted for the War in Iraq.

** okay Iraq war was NOT provoked by fear of Saddam's chem weapons...people dont realize that they dont look huge.. all you need is small vials with this stuff.. if it is biological. it will multiply like mad in open air.. plus it is very easy to load on the truck and take it anywhere they wish. people in the senate are screaming we need to get our guys out but at the end they always say NOT YET because blah blah blah blah. Regardless who is a president, we are not pullin gout anytime soon. as a matter of fact, army is asking staggering amount right nw cause military army is running out of money to pay soldiers. ***


I'm tired of his free ride on this issue! It's his dictatorial, controlling Capricorn wife (another Raisa Gorbachev) that scares me the most as women are, and always will be, the power behind the thrones.

** wait wait a second,.. you must be joking me, right? Raika was a world class nobody. if you remeber she did not even dress appropiately .. she looked like she was just upgraded from a peasant to a farmer girl .. you cant compare those 2.. she was an emberassment with her hubby to USSR.. dont even make me remember those days!.. Gorby should be arrested.***


She told her loving husband he was not going to run for the President until he quit smoking (how many boxes of Nicorette has this poor guy gone through during this campaign!) When he gave his famous speech back in 2004 a the Democratic convention, someone heard Michelle tell him, before going to the podium: You better not ***** this up, buddy! Well, what can you expect from a bossy Capricorn! All the Cardinal signs, inherently, are never happy unless they're running the show (like double Cardinal Nancy Reagan). They SHOULD have a debate between the powers behind the thrones as, indisputedly, they end up being co-presidents. If more people would concentrate their dissection on Michelle Obama, he would certain lose some of his popularity, she's the pusher, the shover, no question about it. Who's going to win? The answer to that question is who are Hillary's ardent suporters going to turn to IF they nominate bi-racial Obama. Are they suddenly going to throw their arms and legs around Obama? I don't think so! And McCain has both the advantage and disadvantge of being a slippery Mutable sign (Hillary's slipperiness from her Moon in Pisces). And, he's got that great dark (Moon in Capricorn) ironic sense of humor which could win some votes, in itself. After his defeat of Bush in the New Hampshire primary back in 2000, and there was a celebration in a restaurant afterwards, with his campaign staff, a news correspondent walked in on this party, with ice cubes, crackers and silverware being thrown around the table, and asked McCain, who these people were, he replied: Oh! This is campaign staff! They're prisoners from work release programs!
And the same correspondent asked him where he got his energy one time, he replied (standing next to his wife) with a smirk: Oh! I just throw a tantrum! Throw a chair against a wall, break a window, or I beat up my wife! Myself, I have that same ironic dark sense of humor with a similar Capricorn Moon, and, yes, I can laugh and laugh with that brand of humor, which I display neverendingly. We all know Leo has got to be present somewhere in the charts of prominent presidential candidates. All three of them have it. Mars in hair-trigger temper Leo for both Hillary and McCain. Has anyone picked up on the similarities between Bill Clinton and Obama: Sun in Leo, Moon in ever-so-charming, charasmatic Tauraus, and Mercury in Leo? Has anyone else found this interesting? But, my guess, after all this rambling, is McCain is going to make it to the White House, like it or not.


** i have to agree with you on McCain.. i just dont see middle america voting for Obama.. coastal states yeah most likely.. but not MIDDLE AMERICA.. imagine KKK members casting their ballots./. lol.. as much as people hate to see a republican, McCain might just take the throne.***

so it is wierd.. a lot of democrats are shaking their heads with Clinton and Obama..and more looking towards McCain .. esp in california.

Naval Aviation FINALLY got new contracts in california a few years ago under BUSH. I dont think military will allow democrat when you have iraq and afganistan going.


look at our stinking state.. we got a republican governor!

my 6 cents on an issue

Tik

[LostVegas]

I did read the biography of Gorbachev and I don't read biographies unless I have some astrological data on those I'm about to read about. All I remember is she was a Capricorn and she was certainly no sweater-knitting spouse. But I'm always amazed at how the media underplays the role of the future First Lady. When Truman was president, whenever he was faced with a important decison, he'd say: Let me run this by the Boss, first! Down the road, I'll bet money on it, that this quiet, invisible watery Scorpio wife of George Bush, in an in-depth biography, will reveal far more about this woman that we ever cared to know about. But being a secretive Scorpio, we may never know what a huge role she actually played in policy decisions.

[tikana]

Ohh ok

lemme splain

i was living in moscow when this old hag showed up with her hubby to pretty much create a mess which is STILL GOING ON. She is a Cappy born January 5 1932. She attended Moscow State University one of the most prestigious universities in entire USSR/Russia.. gettign there hmm yeah you can with good grades but more than 40% it is with bribes.. later she taught Marxist-Lenin theory in russian town where Gorby was a mayor sort of speak. To make long story short.. this is where i have a problem with both of them.

It took 4 days for Gorbachev to mention that Chernobyl pretty much exploded/nuclear meltdown.. It was downplayed on the news as a minor accident! Raika went on TV as i remember and tried to calm people where UKRAINE and BELORUS were sufficating in radiation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoEgkGNO-sQ
it has multiple episodes... I cant watch it .. it sends chills down my spine.. i knew my neighbors'sons were all deployed to Ukraine. All came back with radiation. out of 50 guys sent only 3 survived.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjo43Tk4318&feature=related this is what I SAW.. We did not even see the footage after the woman stopped talking. We only heard it via Freedom American Voice radio station. After Armenian massive earthquake, Raika with her hubby claimed that they will do everything in their powers to restore the damaged cities. until end of USSR days, and only after Armenia declared independence. the cities were somewhat restored to normal living conditions *thanks to American govt, Armenian fund, which is to this day is beneath the standards. She came all dressed up with fur coat and all made up like this is some kind of masquarade. What you are seeing is NOT what is it. This is what american media showed you but it is not what we saw living there.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/htmlContent.jhtml?html=/archive/1999/09/21/wgor121.html

this pretty much explains.. how i feel about her.
and Gorby should shut the hell up with his quote from yesterday something like every US president has to have his own war. I guess he hasnt looked in the mirror and said to himself "like every despot ruling russia/ussr managed to bring a genocide either cultural or on a human lives scale."

Tik

[LostVegas]

Now I see why Raisa Gorbachev was such a hot button for you.

[tikana]

not only for me!

[Angel of Light]

I'll vote for Bi-racial (he's not black, give credit where credit is due!) when, and if, he finally announces that if he had been in the Senate back in 2003, he, like just about everyone else, would have voted for the War in Iraq. I'm tired of his free ride on this issue! It's his dictatorial, controlling Capricorn wife (another Raisa Gorbachev) that scares me the most as women are, and always will be, the power behind the thrones. She told her loving husband he was not going to run for the President until he quit smoking (how many boxes of Nicorette has this poor guy gone through during this campaign!) When he gave his famous speech back in 2004 a the Democratic convention, someone heard Michelle tell him, before going to the podium: You better not ***** this up, buddy! Well, what can you expect from a bossy Capricorn! All the Cardinal signs, inherently, are never happy unless they're running the show (like double Cardinal Nancy Reagan). They SHOULD have a debate between the powers behind the thrones as, indisputedly, they end up being co-presidents. If more people would concentrate their dissection on Michelle Obama, he would certain lose some of his popularity, she's the pusher, the shover, no question about it. Who's going to win? The answer to that question is who are Hillary's ardent suporters going to turn to IF they nominate bi-racial Obama. Are they suddenly going to throw their arms and legs around Obama? I don't think so! And McCain has both the advantage and disadvantge of being a slippery Mutable sign (Hillary's slipperiness from her Moon in Pisces). And, he's got that great dark (Moon in Capricorn) ironic sense of humor which could win some votes, in itself. After his defeat of Bush in the New Hampshire primary back in 2000, and there was a celebration in a restaurant afterwards, with his campaign staff, a news correspondent walked in on this party, with ice cubes, crackers and silverware being thrown around the table, and asked McCain, who these people were, he replied: Oh! This is my campaign staff! They're prisoners from work release programs!
And the same correspondent asked him where he got his energy one time, he replied (standing next to his wife) with a smirk: Oh! I just throw a tantrum! Throw a chair against a wall, break a window, or I beat up my wife! Myself, I have that same ironic dark sense of humor with a similar Capricorn Moon, and, yes, I can laugh and laugh with that brand of humor, which I display neverendingly. We all know Leo has got to be present somewhere in the charts of prominent presidential candidates. All three of them have it. Mars in hair-trigger temper Leo for both Hillary and McCain. Has anyone picked up on the similarities between Bill Clinton and Obama: Sun in Leo, Moon in ever-so-charming, charasmatic Tauraus, and Mercury in Leo? Has anyone else found this interesting? But, my guess, after all this rambling, is McCain is going to make it to the White House, like it or not.
What the biracial comment mean?

[tikana]

What the biracial comment mean?


bi-racial is a person who has half of one race and half from another .. or a mix ..

if one parent is black and another is white and if they have a child, the child is biracial. that applies to everyone

Obama keeps bringing up that he is multiracial person .. kind of classical case of American product.. and it is getting annoying

Tik

[Summery Joy]

Suggestion 1: to wait for the democratic candidate to be officially declared and use that event to see if they will win the whole elections too.

Suggestion 2: Go back to the event chart of when the elections officially started to see who would win, the democrats or the republicans. I suggest assigning the republicans to the 1st house in that chart since they already have the office.

What do you guys think?

[starlink]

Hi Radu, I send you a PM with my interpretation of that Hillary question I think. Did you receive it? I have been cleaning up my old PM's etc. and cannot find it anymore. Wonder what you thought of that interpretation.
Cheers, Star.

[starlink]

Hello Nora! I dont have the event chart of the beginning of this election, do you? I would look at both, see if they compliment one another.

I have a bit of a strange feeling about Hillary. Her Asc. is at 29°45 Gemini, but could just as well be Cancer if the time was not exactly right. Having the ruler of the 1st in the 10th, to me, shows far more ambition than ruler of the 1st in the 6th (which would be so if Gemini rules her 1st).
I wonder what will happen to her. Saturn opposes her MC from the cusp of the 4th house and Saturn rules her 8th house. Transiting Pluto exactly opposes her Ascendant. Transiting Mars will conjunct trans. Pluto in November and also oppose her Ascendant.(natally she has an exact Mars/Pluto conjuncion which widely conjuncts Saturn. Modern ruler of her 10th house Neptune sextiles that conjunction).Looks a bit scary to me. Either something will happen to her, or she will get great power over the public (7th house). Obama has trans. Pluto opposing the ruler of his MC (Venus). This also could show a transformation in his social status.
Cheers, Star.

[fensi88]

Hi to all!
From Astrodatabank I received NEW BIRTH TIMES for candidates of election 2008!
"More than 1,500 astrologers from 45 countries have
descended on Denver, site of the Democratic National
Convention in August, for the "United Astrology
Conference: Rockin' the Universe." The gathering
concludes Tuesday with a panel predicting a
presidential winner in November. Key to those picks:
Astrological charts for John McCain, Barack Obama and
Hillary Clinton. And integral to those charts: The
candidates' exact birth times.
A hush fell over the convention hall late Thursday when
Dallas astrologer Joni Patry announced a birth time for
Obama -- one she said she got from a client with
connections to the campaign: Aug. 4, 1961, at 7:11 p.m.
McCain's birth time was embedded like a gold nugget in
a Mother's Day campaign ad. His mother, Roberta,
mentioned that her son was born Aug. 29, 1936, at 11
a.m. "All the astrologers are like, 'Wow,'" Patry said. "As
an astrologer getting his birth time, that's everything."
Clinton's birth time remains a moving target. "

[starlink]

Fantastic Goca!! Now we have probably the real birthtime for Obama! I never trusted 12.pm.
Ascendant 14° Aquarius, traditional ruler Saturn in 12th house conjunct Jupiter opposing Mercury (what does that tell us about honesty?). Modern ruler Uranus in 7.

Midheaven at 26 Scorpio, Mars in the 8th, Pluto in 7, squaring his Moon. Which ruler would you think is more descriptive of him?
Mars trines Saturn, so those are the two traditional rulers of 10 and 1 which to me sounds like it.
Pluto and Uranus are both in the 7th, house of the public?. Sun is also there. But Pluto is opposing Chiron.

Transiting Saturn is going to conjunct his Pluto in July (consolidation of office?). Jupiter will be conjunct his Ascendant ruler in November and sextiling his MC. as well as trining his Mars, traditional ruler of MC.
Looks like he could be the winner.

Cheers, Star.

[fensi88]

Can someone say how that coming solar eclipse on Aug.1st will effect the horoscopes of candidates?

[starlink]

Hi Goca! No idea what will be the result of that eclipse, but I can see that it will conjunct Obama's Sun in his 6th house (3°orb). It will square his Neptune in the 9th, ruling his 2nd.(1°orb). My feeling says "no good can come from this", but I dont know enough about eclipses. It will affect the houses it falls in as well as the planets it aspects, so those will be the 6th, 7th, 9th , 11th and 2nd, but the 7th and 6th I think are the most important one's. I know there has been a thread about Eclipses, maybe I should read through that.

Cheers, Starlink

[starlink]

Hi Gica, I found this in our own Forum under Eclipses, written by Astrostar:

A solar eclipse occurs during the new moon. The moon blocks the sun’s energies as it passes directly between the sun and the earth. During the month of a solar eclipse, you should start noticing the energies of an upcoming eclipse right after the previous new or full moon. Emotional truths can be revealed and emotions can run rampant. All signs will be viewing life from a different perspective during this time.

It will be difficult for us to be objective. All signs will take things personally during this phase. Deep feelings can come to the surface unexpectedly. This blocked and ambiguous energy will intensify until the actual eclipse date, and will resume to normalcy after about three to four days of the eclipse date. It’s best to plan in advance for the eclipse since our natural rhythms are “out of order” during this time.
All signs will be feeling the effects of the eclipses differently. Depending on where the eclipse falls in your horoscope, you will be dealing with issues associated with that house. If the eclipse falls in the fifth house, the emphasis will be on love affairs and children. If it occurs in the seventh house, the emphasis will be on marriage and legal issues. If it occurs in the ninth house, there might be a change of residence or plans for long distance travel.
Typically, this is not the time to make any major changes. If an eclipse (Lunar or Solar) falls in your sign, on your birthday or close to it (within three to five days), you are due for major changes in your life this year. Perhaps you will end one relationship for another, or you could decide to move. The idea is to shake up the status quo in that particular area of your life. Eclipses have been known over the years as a time of both beginnings and endings. They also signify change in your life on a massive scale. Embrace change and realize that for every door that closes, another opens. It’s all for the best.

Cheers, Starlink

[starlink]

In Hillary Clintons chart the Eclipse sextiles her Jupiter, ruler of her MC!
I could not see her birthplace and made a chart with only 1° less West (86W01) instead of 87W39' and39°N47 instead of 41°N51, and with this chart I got a 1°34 Cancer. I am convinced that her Asc. is Cancer. Her birthtime of 8PM is also way too exact.

In Mc.Cain's chart it squares his Uranus exactly! His chart has changed considerably with the new time of 11 AM.
New Ascendant is now 17.22 Scorpio, MC 15°20 Leo and the Eclipse falls in his 9th house, conjuct his Mars and exactly trines his Part of Fortune in the 5th house! Oops!! Would that mean anything? The ruler of his 10th house is the Sun and it trines Uranus and the NNode, so with the Eclipse squaring this Uranus, I wonder what that means.

[Hades]

i think its simple to conclude obamas going to win just because of his jupiter/saturn conjunction in his solar 6th house. transiting jupiter is there also.

thats the simple obvious indicator for me...

if you look at obamas birth chart and the current transits, iam worried about his safety...

he has chiron in his solar 8th house- which means his death will be of public knowledge but im afraid its not going to be 40 years down the road

also his natal pluto is opposite chiron- mars will be conjunct his pluto soon forming a t square with plutos current position.... and his natal chiron

iam worried that this is a BAD indication for his untimely death. hence his trip to iraq. with pluto in capricorn im sure this will point to an expose' of corrupt politicians who wanted him dead. they can easily make a death in iraq look like an accident or as if it was done by some insurgents......but we all know what truths pluto brings to the surface...

anybody else worried?

[starlink]

Hi Hades, According to the new birthtime of Obama,his Ascedant is Aquarius and his Jupiter/Saturn conjunction falls in the 12th of his chart. His Chiron falls in his 1st house at 5° Pisces. Both Jupiter and Saturn are retrograde. In traditional astrology this is not good at all.

And yes, I mentioned (see above): No idea what will be the result of that eclipse, but I can see that it will conjunct Obama's Sun in his 6th house (3°orb). It will square his Neptune in the 9th, ruling his 2nd.(1°orb). My feeling says "no good can come from this",
Now the 9th is then maybe the Irak trip.

Candidates always have been targets, so I would not be surprised as I also have mentioned in another thread where something was predicted for the coming couple of month which would shake the world.

Cheers, Star.

[fensi88]

Starlink, thanks for these posts.It seams that this eclipse will most effect Obama, because it is so close to his birthday!
I found excellent article on eclipse theme:
http://www.astrologyzone.com/forecasts/eclipse.html

[Hades]

Hi Hades, According to the new birthtime of Obama,his Ascedant is Aquarius and his Jupiter/Saturn conjunction falls in the 12th of his chart. His Chiron falls in his 1st house at 5° Pisces. Both Jupiter and Saturn are retrograde. In traditional astrology this is not good at all.

And yes, I mentioned (see above):
Now the 9th is then maybe the Irak trip.

Candidates always have been targets, so I would not be surprised as I also have mentioned in another thread where something was predicted for the coming couple of month which would shake the world.

Cheers, Star.

his birth time is important but i really think some folks can accidently mustar up too much info and therefore make any study ultimately confusing...

the accuracy of his birth time would also be concerning to me.

ones solar position is always the most influential indication in my experience.
i recently read an article in a dec/07 mountain astrologer magazine with regards to how the solar chart is the most influential path...

maybe jupiter/saturn retrograde is an indication that his policies will be similair to jimmy carters. which werent that effective... looking at his solar chart is indicative of his current status as the leader in the poles. he will be president, if he isnt assassinated before hand... i hope he isnt!

[Hades]

In Hillary Clintons chart the Eclipse sextiles her Jupiter, ruler of her MC!
I could not see her birthplace and made a chart with only 1° less West (86W01) instead of 87W39' and39°N47 instead of 41°N51, and with this chart I got a 1°34 Cancer. I am convinced that her Asc. is Cancer. Her birthtime of 8PM is also way too exact.

In Mc.Cain's chart it squares his Uranus exactly! His chart has changed considerably with the new time of 11 AM.
New Ascendant is now 17.22 Scorpio, MC 15°20 Leo and the Eclipse falls in his 9th house, conjuct his Mars and exactly trines his Part of Fortune in the 5th house! Oops!! Would that mean anything? The ruler of his 10th house is the Sun and it trines Uranus and the NNode, so with the Eclipse squaring this Uranus, I wonder what that means.

ok, in a mountain astrologer magazine i have, it has listed mccains ascendant is in libra... this is why i dont think focussing on the ascendant is worth it. the info is too untrustworthy (is that spelt as one word?)

there really isnt much going on in mccains solar chart to indicate him winning or clinton. except i think clinton may get the vice president role thanks to a jupiter/saturn trine in her 11th/3rd houses in sept and nov...

[starlink]

Hello Hades, yes, there are lots of things in favor of a solar chart. You cant go wrong with that. I am getting a 3 monthly astrological magazine which is very trusthworthy. The editor and head astrologer is Claude Weiss. I dont know if you heard of him. He is Swiss. I may get the next issue soon and hope there will be mention of one of the birthtimes we have so far for Obama. They had a fantastic article about the death of Benazir Bhutto in it with the event chart (and those of her family members death's as well), so I do trust their exactness on birthtimes. Will let you all know when I have it.

Fensi88 thanks for that Eclipse link! Most helpful.

Cheers, Star.

[starlink]

Hi again!

I progressed the chart with the Aquarius Ascendant of Obama for the 1st of August.
I am seeing the following exact aspects:

Pr. Mercury (ruler of his 8th house and 5th house) at 22° Libra 55'
Pr. Mars (ruler of his 3rd and traditionally 10th house) also at 22° Libra 52'

Both are exactly semi-sextile his natal Mars at 22°34 Virgo in the 9th

Solar Arc Pluto, also at 22° Libra 25' and therefore semi-sextile natal Mars as well!

So we have here a Solar Arc Pluto (ruler MC) conjunct Progr. Merc. (ruler 8 and 5) and Progr. Mars (also ruler MC + 3rd.). and all of them semi sextiling natal Mars. Semi sextiles are very powerful when exact and not always favorable.

Then I also noticed that in this chart he has Algol exactly conjunct his IC, opposite MC. (natally)

Furthermore:
SA Ascendant 29° Pisces 43' (critical degree) in his 3rd. and square Saturn at 25° in his 12th. SA Asc. does trine Uranus, modern ruler of his Ascendant.

Pr. Asc. 12° Aries 42 (ruled by Mars) in his 2nd house exactly trine Sun! also at 12°32' Leo. It will also trine the Eclipse point of course.
So from this aspect alone I would almost believe that this chart (or 19.11 hours) is the right chart! because it does after all look like he is going to become president.

Pr. MC. 8° Capricorn 56' (say 9°) in his 12th house, sextile Neptune at 8°36' and exactly inconjunct the Solar Eclipse point at 9° Leo and his Sun at 12°32'.
Now this aspect I like less

[Vista]

For anyone who is interested, Barrack Obama was born on August 4, 1961 at 7:24pm in Honolulu, HA.
You can view his birth certificate on his website:

http://my.barackobama.com/page/invite/birthcert

[jenluvsblackcat]

Is there anyone following the current astrological climate and the way things are going on between the candidates lately?

I just feel uneasy. Yup.

[BobZemco]

Is there anyone following the current astrological climate and the way things are going on between the candidates lately?

I just feel uneasy. Yup.

I don't see where that's relevant. For an election that is particularly close, you have to employ numerous tools (like progressions, directions, transits, solar and lunar returns) and incorporate them to get an accurate reading.

It's very easy for astrologers to make mistakes if they fail to understand and appreciate the total picture. For example, people don't understand that should Obama lose the election, he will still be a US Senator, and will still be very prominent in government, and in the media as well, because it's a certainty that the media will run to Obama to second-guess everything that McCain might do, even more so because of the expectation that Obama would run again in 2012, which is something his transits, progressed and directed chart would also support (and to have a sort of "shadow cabinet" like European parliamentary governments have wouldn't be a bad thing at all).

There are many considerations, and it is not easy to assess the total picture, but I don't see where the current "astrological climate" has a bearing. The answer lies in the candidate's charts, you just have to find it.

[lawhite]

Hey, guys, instead of just arguing your opinions of who is best, why not tell us reasons why whoever wins will? We all have our opinions about the candidates, strong ones usually, but there are other forums to argue their merits. Who is going to win and why do you think so?
Another question I have: If Obama was really born in Kenya, same time and day, how would that affect your predictions?

[BobZemco]

Hey, guys, instead of just arguing your opinions of who is best, why not tell us reasons why whoever wins will? We all have our opinions about the candidates, strong ones usually, but there are other forums to argue their merits. Who is going to win and why do you think so?
Another question I have: If Obama was really born in Kenya, same time and day, how would that affect your predictions?
Obama would either not be a US citizen or not be a natural born citizen. Either way he would not be eligible to be president. I find it odd that in February, long before this issue surfaced, some of the foremost astrologers were suggesting that the person elected would not be the person sworn in as president.

As I understood it, your question, "Was Obama Born in Kenya?" is shown in the attached chart.

The first thing that struck me was the Aquarius Ascendant. Aquarius is Kenya.

The next thing was Saturn in the 7th, a stricture in judgment. I don't believe it renders the chart unreadable, just that the astrologers will have a difficult time reading it without allowing personal biases to interfere.

You would normally be the Ascendant Ruler, but you have no relationship with Obama, so he would be the Ascendant Ruler in the 7th. I'm not really sure which houses to use.

Anyway the orbs are 8°30' and 8° (applying/separating) for luminaries (so no planets are Combust) and 7° and 5° (applying/separating) for the other planets just so people know when looking at the aspectarian.

[Theo]

I don't see where that's relevant. For an election that is particularly close, you have to employ numerous tools (like progressions, directions, transits, solar and lunar returns) and incorporate them to get an accurate reading.

It's very easy for astrologers to make mistakes if they fail to understand and appreciate the transit picture. For example, people don't understand that should Obama lose the election, he will still be a US Senator, and will still be very prominent in government, and in the media as well, because it's a certainty that the media will run to Obama to second-guess everything that McCain might do, even more so because of the expectation that Obama would run again in 2012, which is something his transits, progressed and directed chart would also support (and to have a sort of "shadow cabinet" like European parliamentary governments have wouldn't be a bad thing at all).

There are many considerations, and it is not easy to assess the total picture, but I don't see where the current "astrological climate" has a bearing. The answer lies in the candidate's charts, you just have to find it.


The "astrological climate" does have a bearing Bob. It always does. Transits are merely a way of saying Time ~ without the revolution of the Sun, and planets there would be no time. Right now, the "transits" are in motion, like the weather, and time itself ~ so it ALWAYS has bearing. It has been this way since the Creation of the world.

Looking at transits, it's very easy to assess the overall General Election picture if one studies global transits leading up to, and on election day. From my analysis of both candidates' charts, it is clear that Barack Obama will be elected the nation's next American president. According to my reading of transits, it will be a landslide win, and over earlier than expected.

The real story is not the election ~ but the world economy. After the election, many challenges are ahead for the global community, and many changes that should have taken place in last eight years since the last Jupiter/Saturn conjunction in spring 2000.

We are entering a historic time that eclipses just American's electing an African-American president, which many see as long overdue, and well-deserved, considering the slavery, blood, sweat and tears Africans have given to the North American continent, and the United States before and after its inception as a republic.

The focus only on "race" by some is simply a "cover" for their own racial projection onto Obama, simply due to the color of his skin. Those who make these distinctions and fail to acknowledge them in their comments are false people, whose "insights" are not only highly dubious, but should not be believed.

There are those who do have real concerns about the intentions of both candidates, and this I find valid, as it eclipses the mere points of culture, race, and gender, which is meaningless when it comes to what is in the heart of the candidates and their running mates. No one can see this, although their personal transits give us deeper insight into their celestial motivations, in the end, it is the free will of the individuals that will matter, and in this light, all of us are judged accordingly.

What is in the deepest hearts of Barack Obama, Joe Biden, John McCain and Sarah Palin is only known to them alone and to God. We can only have faith that they all will be true to their destinies and use their free will by the power of the offices granted to them to exercise excellent judgments, and to have great compassion, care, love, and intelligence as the exercise their respective officers of power in a Democracy.

THE CANDIDATES' MAIN TRANSITS
Obama's birth certificate is accurate. Let's get past that misnomer, and just deal with transits. There's been too much rumor-spreading by the ignorant on this (and other areas of color, culture, religion, etc.) based on racism, and favoritism that frankly poison's any objective perspective, even among some astrologers and novices. So, I will not highlight that in this post, since we all know the ulterior motives of the ignorant, which is, frankly, to sound and be stupid.

I've already noted the transits before and during the election and the aspects of Barack Obama and John McCain's own charts, which clearly favors Obama in the November 4th General Election.

*BARACK OBAMA*
Obama is having a Jupiter Return, which arrives every 11-12 years. This, his fourth Jupiter Return arrives as he is in his 47th year. Transiting Jupiter "rises up" and expands during its natal return for the individual. Jupiter's influence is strong since it's stationary direct motion in early September 2008, and has "expanded" Obama's campaign with record voter registration numbers swelling into many millions of new voters fro a new generation seeking change (Jupiter, Uranus) from the old (Saturn/Pluto) and this is what is happening to Obama's campaign as transiting Jupiter in Capricorn is already within orb of Obama's natal Jupiter/Saturn conjunction.

Transiting Saturn in Virgo is also within orb of Obama's natal Saturn in Capricorn, and his natal/progressed Jupiter. His natal Saturn is in a strong earth trine to his natal Mars in Virgo, and this is a very stabilizing influence during this election season. Saturn's conjunction to Obama's natal Mars brings about the ability to "stay the course" while keeping one's feet on the ground with practical solutions designed to not allow his Neptune position to overcome him. Obama has lofty and visionary ideals for American society which reflect the theme of "change" that is also reflected in the world transits. The rejection of this by those opposing Obama, and his ideals are seen in the "projection" and "demonizing" Obama because he does not look like a Caucasian man, although his mother was Caucasian and his father African, those people who only see a person through the lens of "color" have pitted themselves as part and parcel of the old order, which defined a person solely on race without seeing that people are much deeper than what is shown on the surface. This general election is forcing racists, and those who deny being racists, to come to terms with their own race ~ especially Caucasians, who attempt to escape being seen as "white" thus, ensuring that whenever they see someone who is not, they "project" onto people of color that which they see as uncommon, since being racist assumes that one's own "color" is superior, because it is common to them, and those who share the same color.

Those Caucasians that have transcended this are the ones seeking "change" and they will get it in this election. This reflects the new order to come, those who seek to get beyond the 20th century's hate of the "other" as the wars of that century were based on demonizing those who "looked" different, but who only are a part of the human family, not matter the tones of their skins or the languages they spoke. These are the new generations rising: Generation X as the leadership, and Generation Y as the next generation in line to rise to leadership in the mid-to late 2020s.

Obama's secondary progressions tell the real story. A look at his progressions for 2008, 2009, 2010, etc., show that this man is indeed the new American president. Secondary progressions are very telling, and they show that Barack Obama will become the nation's first African-American president, resulting in a historic change for the United States, and the world in the years to come. His Jupiter/Saturn synod rising in his natal chart indicates that the influence of Obama on American politics will be long-lasting, well into the 2010s, and 2020s.

Obama's natal Moon in Gemini is now receiving strong air trines from his natal/progressed Jupiter, and on election day, the transiting Moon will be entering Aquarius, not only trining Obama's Lunar position, but the transiting Moon will have conjoined his natal Jupiter/Saturn synod.

All these factors, plus a few more I've left out in this post clearly show that Obama will win the White House and become the next President of the United States of America.

*JOHN McCAIN*
McCain has a strong chart, which has shown great challenges over his lifetime that he has struggled to overcome, especially emotionally. This is result of McCain's Moon/Pluto opposition, and his mutable grand cross. McCain's main problem is this grand cross, and the many unfavorable aspects in his own transits that do not jive with global transits of October, and November 2008. We have already seen this reflected in McCain's poor campaign performances since mid-September.

Moreover, the transits of his party show a fractured party split into what appears to be at least four groups: the Far Right, strict conservative Republicans, moderate conservatives, liberal Republicans, and the religious right. McCain has lost Independents, and relies mainly on the "undecided vote" and those who will not vote for anyone except a Caucasian man.

The drop in the polls is a result of the world transits and their influences on the economic crisis that peaked in mid-September. This was a result of several transits of note: Saturn/Uranus, Mercury's station retrograde in Libra; Jupiter's direct station in September and Pluto's direct motion station also in September.

Pluto's motion had its effect on McCain's natal Mercury at 2-Libra, and his North Lunar Node at 1-Capricorn. The transit of Pluto in the last degrees of Sagittarius lies between McCain's cardinal quality Mercury/North Node square w/ Pluto heightening the tensions.

The retrograde of transiting Mercury in late September into October has cause havoc in McCain's campaign, which lead to the massive economic Wall Street "bailout" fiasco which backfired on McCain, resulting in a deep drop in his poll numbers.

He has yet to recover, and will not because of Mercury's coming transit in the latter degrees of tropical Libra (decisions, balance.) When transiting Mercury does pick up speed in the last week of October, and the first four (4) days of November, Mercury will strongly square McCain's natal Moon and his natal Pluto in Cancer.

*ELECTION DAY*
The month of November is very active ~

Nov. 2 - Neptune stations direct at 21-Aquarius
Nov. 4 - Saturn in Virgo opposes Uranus in Pisces, exact conjunction
Nov. 9 - Moon heads north in declination
Nov. 13 - Jupiter in Capricorn sextiles Uranus in Pisces, exact
Nov. 21 - Moon heads south in declination
Nov. 21 - Jupiter in Capricorn trines Saturn in Virgo, exact
Nov. 27 - Uranus stations direct at 21-Pisces
Nov. 27 - Pluto enters Capricorn
Nov. 28 - Jupiter semi-sextile Neptune, exact

The Dragon's Head at 15/14/13-degrees Aquarius in conjunction with Chiron in Aquarius with Neptune nearby is Television media, and their pundits. Aquarius is the sign of television and radio (communications) and there is intense focus (Chiron) on this particular election.

Chiron's station to direct motion close to the North Lunar Node in Aquarius reflects a "hyper-activeness" "nervousness" and "excitement" from the anchors/reporters, commentators and pundits, who, despite their so-called "objectivity" will be seen getting very "excited" on air ~ look for this in their mannerisms, the way they express themselves, and the arguments they attempt to foster among their political guests in the remaining week before the general election.

The closer to the day of the election, the more "excited" the media will become at the prospect of an African-American becoming the new American president.

Prior to Election Day on November 4th, there is the New Moon of October 28, at 5-Scorpio. Transiting Mercury, which stationed direct on October 15, will have picked up speed and will reach the degree of its Sept. 24 retrograde at 22-Libra on October 31. The expectations of the country increases with the new moon as Mercury passes it stationed point at 22-Libra ~ as decision time arrives just days before the election.

The month of November is generally the last month of a very difficult two years for most people. The first half of the month is tense, as people feel the influences of the first exact Saturn-Uranus opposition on Nov. 4 on the feeling/expression Pisces-Virgo axis.

The first week of November 2008 is very positive for the Moon's last aspects from Nov. 2-7, however, the aspects from the transiting Moon are to Mars and Pluto, which features some news of bad actions by bad people intent on starting mischief and trouble they will only pay for greatly later. The entry of Pluto into tropical Capricorn at the end of November is a great relief as Pluto leaves Sagittarius for good, and begins its long transit in Capricorn until November 2024.

December 2008 is radically different from the prior months... relief, ease, as people in this post-election environment are weary, but happy to have the election over.

Election Day, November 4th is a cold and chilly day for much of the country after several prior days of brilliant sunny, but windy weather from October 31 to November 2nd, which features the direct station of transiting Neptune at 21-Aquarius, featuring cold, foggy mornings, and cooler temperatures throughout parts of the country. Despite the cold weather, voters turn out in huge numbers on November 4th. The election is a landslide victory for Obama & Biden, and many Democrats. There are surprising upsets that really shake the political parties, and reflect the country's outrage at the economic crisis, and lack of regulation and accountability. This election will also be about a mandate for "change" and the American people are very angry at the party in power.

After Election Day, a celebration of sorts sweeps through the country, and a relief that the election is over continues, however, the month continues to feature news around the country of troublemakers angry that their "side" lost will hit the airwaves.

Because of the Taurus Full Moon Week of Nov. 12-19, those who have been "hyped-up" because of Obama's race will "act out" on people of color, who will resent this and will defend themselves. The Moon's aspects to These news events will reflect the continuing racism of the old century, which is now being highlighted around the world, at their detriment, and will show just how ugly and ignorant some people can be. Many of these mischief-makers will make some very bad decisions with ramifications for the rest of their lives they will end up regretting dearly, for it wasn't worth it.

The Last Quarter Moon of Nov. 19-27 sees things calm down considerably as the waning Moon in Leo sees Americans taking time off for the Thanksgiving Holidays, which features a New Moon at 5-Sagittarius on November 27, Thanksgiving Day. People reflect, are spiritual and look forward to the new American administration ahead.

December 2008 has more of a "relaxed" feel to it with the American government fully in transition, as the old is replaced by the new. The stresses of the last two years end with Pluto's entry into tropical Capricorn on Thanksgiving Day, November 27. The last aspects of the Moon to and from Pluto ceases with Pluto leaving tropical Sagittarius. This provides a great load lifted off the shoulders of people worldwide, and people begin to pick up the pieces of their lives ahead of more changes to come in late March 2009 as Venus changes from evening to morning star.

The changes from November's election, and of the years ahead fill people's imaginations with excitement as the Sun, Mercury and Mars transit Sagittarius in November & December, and as the Moon begins a new series of transits through the mutable signs of the zodiac indicating a speedy transition of government between the old administration and the incoming new administration.

December 2008 ends with Saturn stationing retrograde at 21-Virgo on December 31, and with Jupiter making its last transit of tropical Capricorn before making ingress into tropical Aquarius on January 5, 2009. Two weeks before the new president is inaugurated, the people of the world can feel "change" literally in the "air" ~ as this reflects the influence and entry of Jupiter into the 11th House Air Sign of Aquarius. For this time, it does feel like change, as we all begin to sense that indeed, a new has begun, as we are soon to see the dawn of the coming decade of the 2010s.

[swanlimbus]

F-16 Take-Off with full afterburner (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=1UXU2jt5nEo&feature=related)

big brother is stopping me talking to julia

Re: New Moon September 29 2008 (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=100491#post100491)

you should refrain from censoring my private messages Radu

300 - Sway (the roof is on fire) (http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=pfWIKf0IfgA)

[emilyelizabeth]

Good People,

The time is wrong here for Barack Obama's natal info. I have been given August 4, 1961, 1:06 pm AHST, Honolulu, HI (by a student of Robert Hand). That puts his Sun in the 10th house - the placement of a great orator, for a start. Please refigure your horary questions according to the correct birth info.

Thanks!

[BobZemco]

Good People,

The time is wrong here for Barack Obama's natal info. I have been given August 4, 1961, 1:06 pm AHST, Honolulu, HI (by a student of Robert Hand). That puts his Sun in the 10th house - the placement of a great orator, for a start. Please refigure your horary questions according to the correct birth info.

Thanks!

His "birth certificate" says 7:24 pm. I saw something back from about July or so that said 7:34 pm.

I was using the 1:06 pm birth time for a while, which I think I got from astrodatabank's site.

[lalalaheidi87]

Bob Zemco is right - Obama 7:24pm Honolulu Hi, and Mccain is 6:25pm Colon, Panama (where did the other times come from:confused:... someone was talking about obama's leo rising, its actually aquarius) It is really strange to me, they were both born outside of the main part of the USA around sunset -sun conjunct or near descendant as well as quite heavy 7th houses. It is strange that they are running at the same time and against each other. Also from a numerological perspective, they are both quite similar with 2s and 9s.Now I have to put my personal opinion in here I do not trust Obama. I believe he is the first pig in Animal Farm and I do not support big governemnt in general, creation of 5 million government jobs paid for by the rest of america, socialism, removal or right to bear arms, etc. Also, he sounds the exact the same when he is joking and when he is telling the truth, that to me is scary for a president, how can you tell if he is lying. There is such thing as being TOO smooth.. I believe he has hypnotized the country (and this is really bad..)Personal opinions aside, both of them being born at sunset (sun on descendant) with heavy 7th houses (doesnt the 7th house represent marraige... could this be marraige to counrty?) Another person who has this type of chart is Hitler. (Apr 20 1889, 6:30pm Braunau am Inn, Austria) ..Random but interesting.

[skywatcher1221]

Bob Zemco is right - Obama 7:24pm Honolulu Hi, and Mccain is 6:25pm Colon, Panama (where did the other times come from:confused:... someone was talking about obama's leo rising, its actually aquarius) It is really strange to me, they were both born outside of the main part of the USA around sunset -sun conjunct or near descendant as well as quite heavy 7th houses. It is strange that they are running at the same time and against each other. Also from a numerological perspective, they are both quite similar with 2s and 9s.Now I have to put my personal opinion in here I do not trust Obama. I believe he is the first pig in Animal Farm and I do not support big governemnt in general, creation of 5 million government jobs paid for by the rest of america, socialism, removal or right to bear arms, etc. Also, he sounds the exact the same when he is joking and when he is telling the truth, that to me is scary for a president, how can you tell if he is lying. There is such thing as being TOO smooth.. I believe he has hypnotized the country (and this is really bad..)Personal opinions aside, both of them being born at sunset (sun on descendant) with heavy 7th houses (doesnt the 7th house represent marraige... could this be marraige to counrty?) Another person who has this type of chart is Hitler. (Apr 20 1889, 6:30pm Braunau am Inn, Austria) ..Random but interesting.
Interesting indeed! Like Obama and McCain who were born outside the contiguous United States, Hitler was born outside of Germany; he was Austrian by birth. There, however, the comparisons end (or at least they should). I think those well populated 7th Houses indicate a life that is heavily involved with others as well as a "talent" for making enemies.

BTW some "great" (i.e., notorious) dictators were born outside the countries they eventually ruled -- Hitler was Austrian, Stalin was Georgian and Napoleon was Corsican.

[starlink]

In yesterdays Swiss Newspapers I read the following (will freely translate from German):

"Obama is a real American"
US Federal Judge rejects claim (of the contrary).

By the way, I also heard that a conspiracy to kill Obama (BBC World)was discovered.
Hope this is not going to be one of many......

[BobZemco]

I think those well populated 7th Houses indicate a life that is heavily involved with others as well as a "talent" for making enemies.

Not just that, but at least in Obama's case he has 8 planets in the west and his life is inextricably intertwined with the lives of others. Like the election, he can only do so much to be president, and now he is totally reliant on others to put him in that position.

Napoleon was Corsican.

His mother was Corsican, but I believe he was actually born on Elba, still, he wasn't exactly French.

[BobZemco]

In yesterdays Swiss Newspapers I read the following (will freely translate from German):

"Obama is a real American"
US Federal Judge rejects claim (of the contrary).

The judge rejected the claim because Berg had no legal standing to sue.

As a point of fact, Berg submitted a Request for Admissions to Obama and the DNC which had to be answered within 30 days. Pursuant to the federal rules of civil procedure, a failure to answer the questions, deny the questions or raise objections to the questions within 30 days is an automatic admission as to the truth. Since neither Obama nor the DNC denied that he was born in Kenya or objected to the question or responded, it would seem he was born in Kenya.

Anyway, four other law suits are still pending and Berg will probably appeal the ruling or file a Writ of Mandamus to force the appropriate government agency, perhaps the Federal Elections Commission to perform their duties.

IBy the way, I also heard that a conspiracy to kill Obama (BBC World)was discovered.
Hope this is not going to be one of many......

It was a couple of high school kids.

[Awakened_Pisces]

They were in their upper twentys and it went far beyond Obama. These sick bastards were planning to murder hundreds of children. All because of their DNA. They're the ones who deserve to be executed. Imagine we let these sick bastards back into society.

[skywatcher1221]

Not just that, but at least in Obama's case he has 8 planets in the west and his life is inextricably intertwined with the lives of others. Like the election, he can only do so much to be president, and now he is totally reliant on others to put him in that position.



His mother was Corsican, but I believe he was actually born on Elba, still, he wasn't exactly French.

I think Elba was the place of his first exile. I checked his origins on Wikipedia. It turns out he was an ethnic Italian. Here is the Wikipedia entry:

"Napoleon was born in the town of Ajaccio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajaccio), Corsica (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corsica), on 15 August 1769, one year after the island was transferred to France by the Republic of Genoa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Genoa). He was named Napoleone di Buonaparte (in Corsican (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corsican_language), Nabolione or Nabulione), though he later adopted the more French-sounding Napoléon Bonaparte. His heritage earned him popularity among the local populace during his Italian military campaigns. The Corsican Buonapartes originated from minor Italian nobility, which came to Corsica in the 16th century when the island was still a possession of Genoa."

I am thinking that, in view of the histories of Napoleon, Hitler, and Stalin, the Founding Fathers were not being excessively jingoistic when they stipulated that the U.S. president must be a natural-born American.

[Awakened_Pisces]

BTW: No wonder Hitler became a dictator. His ASC Libra was conjunct the Fixed Star ALGOL. He also has Scorpio(The Legendary Beast) in his First house. But he has one of the weirdest placements for a dictator I've ever seen. His True Node is in Cancer. Loving, secretive Cancer. I'd understand this if it refers to his poorness early on in his life. But the True Node often reflects the person you should become. Does this mean that something shifted Hitler's thoughts into his racist rage against the jewish.

I wonder, what would Hitler's thoughts be on present day-Israel? He probably would have close ties with Iran right now and we'd be in a big mess :D.

[tikana]

Pisces

his asce conj SPICA.. not ALGOL!

Tik

[BobZemco]

I think Elba was the place of his first exile.
Okay I get those backwards a lot.

It turns out he was an ethnic Italian.
That region was widely contested. You've probably heard the term "Mafia" although it is more correct to write 'MAFIA,' as it is an acronym.

It is Muerte Alle Francia Italia Alia. It is not Italian, it is a dialect circa 14th Century that literally means "Die all French Italians cry."

An accurate translation would be, "Death to the French is the cry of the Italians." It stems from battles over the contested region of the Riveria, which now consists of the French Riviera, the Riviera (Monaco) and the Italian Riviera.

There was on the web a long time ago a rectified event chart for the Night of Sicilian Vespers when the Sicilians rose up and killed on the French people on the island. It was a pretty freaky chart, especially as it progressed with the transits during the night.
I am thinking that, in view of the histories of Napoleon, Hitler, and Stalin, the Founding Fathers were not being excessively jingoistic when they stipulated that the U.S. president must be a natural-born American.
I think you're right. They didn't want any external influences controlling the country, which is also why they preempted the possibility of a national religion.

[skywatcher1221]

Okay I get those backwards a lot.


That region was widely contested. You've probably heard the term "Mafia" although it is more correct to write 'MAFIA,' as it is an acronym.

It is Muerte Alle Francia Italia Alia. It is not Italian, it is a dialect circa 14th Century that literally means "Die all French Italians cry."

An accurate translation would be, "Death to the French is the cry of the Italians." It stems from battles over the contested region of the Riveria, which now consists of the French Riviera, the Riviera (Monaco) and the Italian Riviera.

There was on the web a long time ago a rectified event chart for the Night of Sicilian Vespers when the Sicilians rose up and killed on the French people on the island. It was a pretty freaky chart, especially as it progressed with the transits during the night.

Do you still have the chart or the data for it? I'm a history buff and like to collect these things. What makes this especially freaky is that, according to Astrodienst, Pluto was in Capricorn that year and Saturn was opposite Uranus.

[BobZemco]

Do you still have the chart or the data for it? I'm a history buff and like to collect these things. What makes this especially freaky is that, according to Astrodienst, Pluto was in Capricorn that year and Saturn was opposite Uranus.

I didn't do the chart, someone else did and had it posted on a website years ago. The site hasn't existed for a while. I didn't have any software programs at the time or I would have copied the date and time to make a chart.

As I recall, I think you're right and Uranus was on the Descendant opposing the Ascendant. At the time, I was taking a course in the history of the MAFIA and its origins, which date back to near the end of the Roman Empire and the use of private armies to defend property. Because of that, Italy never experienced the slavery of serfdom and fuedalism the way that other European kingdoms did.

I'll have to see if I can recreate it.

[Neptune Rising]

Is it too late to post a chart, I thought of this question just now..? Wasnt sure whether to PM it or not, so here it is.

Will Obama win?
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk27/Jo75Tiger/willobamawin.gif

I am for Obama. I cant even imagine what will happen tomorrow with the current energies.

All the angles in that chart have fixed signs on them, but Moon trines Saturn while Saturn opposes Uranus.
Neptune on cusp of the 7th.
I'm curious to hear what others think.
Shall I post this on a new thread?


NR

[RayAustin]

Is it too late to post a chart, I thought of this question just now..? Wasnt sure whether to PM it or not, so here it is.

Will Obama win?
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk27/Jo75Tiger/willobamawin.gif

I am for Obama. I cant even imagine what will happen tomorrow with the current energies.

All the angles in that chart have fixed signs on them, but Moon trines Saturn while Saturn opposes Uranus.
Neptune on cusp of the 7th.
I'm curious to hear what others think.
Shall I post this on a new thread?


Quite easily we see that he will. Looking at the moon's aspects alone:

1. Moon Sextiles Mars: Mars is very strong in the tenth house, which is his house of success, it also rules his third house ~ rumors, could be representative of the polls, they are accurate and favor obama.

1. Moon trine saturn (Obama Significator): the moon is in the sign of saturn, moon leaving conjunction in one degree (one day--or week, as its succeedent) from jupiter, ruler of his ambitions suggesting a completion. The only concerning thing is saturn rules his twelfth, as well, private enemies. That could be as simple as the fact when he wins, he will make many enemies.

However, Neptune on the cusp of the seventh is concerning as well -- neptune is sextiling venus ruler of his fourth, and today this morning his grandmother just died and I know that is an emotional for experience to him, he made a speech today and was crying. I'm sure there's other explanations for that neptune though. ;)

[BobZemco]

I don't see that at all.

"The Sun is the natural ruler of kings" in mundane horary.

We find the Sun in Scorpio in the 3rd House.

The Sun's only aspect is an applying sextile to Jupiter who rules the 5th and 8th Houses.

The kingship/presidency is the 10th House ruled by Venus in Sagittarius in the 4th and making a separating aspect to Saturn.

To see a win by Obama, there should be an aspect between the Sun (the president) and Venus (the White House) and there isn't any.

Also note the Sun is Via Combusta.

Mercury ruling the 11th House of Wishes/Dreams/Circumstances beyond our control is Via Combusta.

When the querent and quesited have the same ruler, the quesited gets the ruler and the querent gets the Moon. The Moon is intercepted in the 5th House of Speculation and the Moon rules no house (because Cancer is intercepted in the 11th).

Based on that chart I don't see a win for Obama.

[RayAustin]

Well you aren't looking at the chart right. First of all, you are interpreting the chart as if the querent was Obama, it is not, therefore the chart is going to be turned.

Sun sextiles jupiter -- obama's 11th of ambitions, oppurtunity of fulfillment. Sun is applying in conjunction to Obama's tenth house ruler! The answer could not be more clear!

[Neptune Rising]

Thanks for replies :)
I wasnt sure whether to take 1st house for Obama, or 7th. I wish it was the 7th!
Isnt Obama a Leo? Sun in Scorpio. And McCain a Virgo, Saturn in Virgo. :(
NR

[RayAustin]

Thanks for replies :)
I wasnt sure whether to take 1st house for Obama, or 7th. I wish it was the 7th!
Isnt Obama a Leo? Sun in Scorpio. And McCain a Virgo, Saturn in Virgo. :(
NR

Well Saturn could represent him well at this time, as he is extremely calm and reserved if you've seen Obama lately.

[Courtney Love]

isn't this basically asking "will Obama get the job" making it a 6th house question? renumbering the houses with the 7th as the first, whether you use Saturn or Uranus to represent him, it's a yes.

The moon trines/sextiles Sa & Ur further confirming a yes...

[RayAustin]

isn't this basically asking "will Obama get the job" making it a 6th house question? renumbering the houses with the 7th as the first, whether you use Saturn or Uranus to represent him, it's a yes.

The moon trines/sextiles Sa & Ur further confirming a yes...

Well sixth house jobs aren't fitting for a presidential job, which is of honor and very public, it is more fitting as the tenth. Sixth house jobs are more mundane.

[Neptune Rising]

Using Saturn as Obama, and his 10th being Mars, the Moon trines Saturn/sextiles Uranus, then sextiles Mars. I hope so. Perhaps this is right, as Mars is very strong - the job of president is strong, Mars in Scorpio seems pretty intense.. Mars will move into term of Saturn, Saturn stays on Saturn's terms. We'll soon see.
NR

[RayAustin]

Well, clearly I and others were right.

[Neptune Rising]

Great, with a bit of luck times may change in a positive direction now. Plus I know how to do a mundane chart when querying another. :) I do wonder what the fixed signs on all the angles meant though.. can anyone give a clue?
NR

[Theo]

I don't see that at all.

"The Sun is the natural ruler of kings" in mundane horary.

We find the Sun in Scorpio in the 3rd House.

The Sun's only aspect is an applying sextile to Jupiter who rules the 5th and 8th Houses.

The kingship/presidency is the 10th House ruled by Venus in Sagittarius in the 4th and making a separating aspect to Saturn.

To see a win by Obama, there should be an aspect between the Sun (the president) and Venus (the White House) and there isn't any.

Also note the Sun is Via Combusta.

Mercury ruling the 11th House of Wishes/Dreams/Circumstances beyond our control is Via Combusta.

When the querent and quesited have the same ruler, the quesited gets the ruler and the querent gets the Moon. The Moon is intercepted in the 5th House of Speculation and the Moon rules no house (because Cancer is intercepted in the 11th).

Based on that chart I don't see a win for Obama.

Again, according to my calculations, the world transits, and the transits of the candidates clearly show that Barack Obama will be the next American President. Moreover, the "astrological climate" does have a bearing Bob. It always does. Transits are merely a way of saying Time ~ without the revolution of the Sun, and planets there would be no time. Right now, the "transits" are in motion, like the weather, and time itself ~ so it ALWAYS has bearing. It has been this way since the Creation of the world.

Looking at transits, it's very easy to assess the overall General Election picture if one studies global transits leading up to, and on election day. From my analysis of both candidates' charts, it is clear that Barack Obama will be elected the nation's next American president. According to my reading of transits, it will be a landslide win, and over earlier than expected.

The real story is not just the election ~ but also the world economy. After the election, many challenges are ahead for the global community, and many changes that should have taken place in last eight years since the last Jupiter/Saturn conjunction in spring 2000.

We are entering a historic time that eclipses just American's electing an African-American president, which many see as long overdue, and well-deserved, considering the slavery, blood, sweat and tears Africans have given to the North American continent, and the United States before and after its inception as a republic.

The focus only on "race" by some is simply a "cover" for their own racial projection onto Obama, simply due to the color of his skin. Those who make these distinctions and fail to acknowledge them in their comments are false people, whose "insights" are not only highly dubious, but should not be believed.

There are those who do have real concerns about the intentions of both candidates, and this I find valid, as it eclipses the mere points of culture, race, and gender, which is meaningless when it comes to what is in the heart of the candidates and their running mates. No one can see this, although their personal transits give us deeper insight into their celestial motivations, in the end, it is the free will of the individuals that will matter, and in this light, all of us are judged accordingly.

What is in the deepest hearts of Barack Obama, Joe Biden, John McCain and Sarah Palin is only known to them alone and to God. We can only have faith that they all will be true to their destinies and use their free will by the power of the offices granted to them to exercise excellent judgments, and to have great compassion, care, love, and intelligence as the exercise their respective officers of power in a Democracy.

THE CANDIDATES' MAIN TRANSITS
Obama's birth certificate is accurate. Let's get past that misnomer, and just deal with transits. There's been too much rumor-spreading by the ignorant on this (and other areas of color, culture, religion, etc.) based on racism, and favoritism that frankly poison's any objective perspective, even among some astrologers and novices. So, I will not highlight that in this post, since we all know the ulterior motives of the ignorant, which is, frankly, to sound and be stupid.

I've already noted the transits before and during the election and the aspects of Barack Obama and John McCain's own charts, which clearly favors Obama in the November 4th General Election.

*BARACK OBAMA*
Obama is having a Jupiter Return, which arrives every 11-12 years. This, his fourth Jupiter Return arrives as he is in his 47th year. Transiting Jupiter "rises up" and expands during its natal return for the individual. Jupiter's influence is strong since it's stationary direct motion in early September 2008, and has "expanded" Obama's campaign with record voter registration numbers swelling into many millions of new voters fro a new generation seeking change (Jupiter, Uranus) from the old (Saturn/Pluto) and this is what is happening to Obama's campaign as transiting Jupiter in Capricorn is already within orb of Obama's natal Jupiter/Saturn conjunction.

Transiting Saturn in Virgo is also within orb of Obama's natal Saturn in Capricorn, and his natal/progressed Jupiter. His natal Saturn is in a strong earth trine to his natal Mars in Virgo, and this is a very stabilizing influence during this election season. Saturn's conjunction to Obama's natal Mars brings about the ability to "stay the course" while keeping one's feet on the ground with practical solutions designed to not allow his Neptune position to overcome him. Obama has lofty and visionary ideals for American society which reflect the theme of "change" that is also reflected in the world transits. The rejection of this by those opposing Obama, and his ideals are seen in the "projection" and "demonizing" Obama because he does not look like a Caucasian man, although his mother was Caucasian and his father African, those people who only see a person through the lens of "color" have pitted themselves as part and parcel of the old order, which defined a person solely on race without seeing that people are much deeper than what is shown on the surface. This general election is forcing racists, and those who deny being racists, to come to terms with their own race ~ especially Caucasians, who attempt to escape being seen as "white" thus, ensuring that whenever they see someone who is not, they "project" onto people of color that which they see as uncommon, since being racist assumes that one's own "color" is superior, because it is common to them, and those who share the same color.

Those Caucasians that have transcended this are the ones seeking "change" and they will get it in this election. This reflects the new order to come, those who seek to get beyond the 20th century's hate of the "other" as the wars of that century were based on demonizing those who "looked" different, but who only are a part of the human family, not matter the tones of their skins or the languages they spoke. These are the new generations rising: Generation X as the leadership, and Generation Y as the next generation in line to rise to leadership in the mid-to late 2020s.

Obama's secondary progressions tell the real story. A look at his progressions for 2008, 2009, 2010, etc., show that this man is indeed the new American president. Secondary progressions are very telling, and they show that Barack Obama will become the nation's first African-American president, resulting in a historic change for the United States, and the world in the years to come. His Jupiter/Saturn synod rising in his natal chart indicates that the influence of Obama on American politics will be long-lasting, well into the 2010s, and 2020s.

Obama's natal Moon in Gemini is now receiving strong air trines from his natal/progressed Jupiter, and on election day, the transiting Moon will be entering Aquarius, not only trining Obama's Lunar position, but the transiting Moon will have conjoined his natal Jupiter/Saturn synod.

All these factors, plus a few more I've left out in this post clearly show that Obama will win the White House and become the next President of the United States of America.

*JOHN McCAIN*
McCain has a strong chart, which has shown great challenges over his lifetime that he has struggled to overcome, especially emotionally. This is result of McCain's Moon/Pluto opposition, and his mutable grand cross. McCain's main problem is this grand cross, and the many unfavorable aspects in his own transits that do not jive with global transits of October, and November 2008. We have already seen this reflected in McCain's poor campaign performances since mid-September.

Moreover, the transits of his party show a fractured party split into what appears to be at least four groups: the Far Right, strict conservative Republicans, moderate conservatives, liberal Republicans, and the religious right. McCain has lost Independents, and relies mainly on the "undecided vote" and those who will not vote for anyone except a Caucasian man.

The drop in the polls is a result of the world transits and their influences on the economic crisis that peaked in mid-September. This was a result of several transits of note: Saturn/Uranus, Mercury's station retrograde in Libra; Jupiter's direct station in September and Pluto's direct motion station also in September.

Pluto's motion had its effect on McCain's natal Mercury at 2-Libra, and his North Lunar Node at 1-Capricorn. The transit of Pluto in the last degrees of Sagittarius lies between McCain's cardinal quality Mercury/North Node square w/ Pluto heightening the tensions.

The retrograde of transiting Mercury in late September into October has cause havoc in McCain's campaign, which lead to the massive economic Wall Street "bailout" fiasco which backfired on McCain, resulting in a deep drop in his poll numbers.

He has yet to recover, and will not because of Mercury's coming transit in the latter degrees of tropical Libra (decisions, balance.) When transiting Mercury does pick up speed in the last week of October, and the first four (4) days of November, Mercury will strongly square McCain's natal Moon and his natal Pluto in Cancer.

*ELECTION DAY*
The month of November is very active ~

Nov. 2 - Neptune stations direct at 21-Aquarius
Nov. 4 - Saturn in Virgo opposes Uranus in Pisces, exact conjunction
Nov. 9 - Moon heads north in declination
Nov. 13 - Jupiter in Capricorn sextiles Uranus in Pisces, exact
Nov. 21 - Moon heads south in declination
Nov. 21 - Jupiter in Capricorn trines Saturn in Virgo, exact
Nov. 27 - Uranus stations direct at 21-Pisces
Nov. 27 - Pluto enters Capricorn
Nov. 28 - Jupiter semi-sextile Neptune, exact

The Dragon's Head at 15/14/13-degrees Aquarius in conjunction with Chiron in Aquarius with Neptune nearby is Television media, and their pundits. Aquarius is the sign of television and radio (communications) and there is intense focus (Chiron) on this particular election.

Chiron's station to direct motion close to the North Lunar Node in Aquarius reflects a "hyper-activeness" "nervousness" and "excitement" from the anchors/reporters, commentators and pundits, who, despite their so-called "objectivity" will be seen getting very "excited" on air ~ look for this in their mannerisms, the way they express themselves, and the arguments they attempt to foster among their political guests in the remaining week before the general election.

The closer to the day of the election, the more "excited" the media will become at the prospect of an African-American becoming the new American president.

Prior to Election Day on November 4th, there is the New Moon of October 28, at 5-Scorpio. Transiting Mercury, which stationed direct on October 15, will have picked up speed and will reach the degree of its Sept. 24 retrograde at 22-Libra on October 31. The expectations of the country increases with the new moon as Mercury passes it stationed point at 22-Libra ~ as decision time arrives just days before the election.

The month of November is generally the last month of a very difficult two years for most people. The first half of the month is tense, as people feel the influences of the first exact Saturn-Uranus opposition on Nov. 4 on the feeling/expression Pisces-Virgo axis.

The first week of November 2008 is very positive for the Moon's last aspects from Nov. 2-7, however, the aspects from the transiting Moon are to Mars and Pluto, which features some news of bad actions by bad people intent on starting mischief and trouble they will only pay for greatly later. The entry of Pluto into tropical Capricorn at the end of November is a great relief as Pluto leaves Sagittarius for good, and begins its long transit in Capricorn until November 2024.

December 2008 is radically different from the prior months... relief, ease, as people in this post-election environment are weary, but happy to have the election over.

Election Day, November 4th is a cold and chilly day for much of the country after several prior days of brilliant sunny, but windy weather from October 31 to November 2nd, which features the direct station of transiting Neptune at 21-Aquarius, featuring cold, foggy mornings, and cooler temperatures throughout parts of the country. Despite the cold weather, voters turn out in huge numbers on November 4th. The election is a landslide victory for Obama & Biden, and many Democrats. There are surprising upsets that really shake the political parties, and reflect the country's outrage at the economic crisis, and lack of regulation and accountability. This election will also be about a mandate for "change" and the American people are very angry at the party in power.

After Election Day, a celebration of sorts sweeps through the country, and a relief that the election is over continues, however, the month continues to feature news around the country of troublemakers angry that their "side" lost will hit the airwaves.

Because of the Taurus Full Moon Week of Nov. 12-19, those who have been "hyped-up" because of Obama's race will "act out" on people of color, who will resent this and will defend themselves. The Moon's aspects to These news events will reflect the continuing racism of the old century, which is now being highlighted around the world, at their detriment, and will show just how ugly and ignorant some people can be. Many of these mischief-makers will make some very bad decisions with ramifications for the rest of their lives they will end up regretting dearly, for it wasn't worth it.

The Last Quarter Moon of Nov. 19-27 sees things calm down considerably as the waning Moon in Leo sees Americans taking time off for the Thanksgiving Holidays, which features a New Moon at 5-Sagittarius on November 27, Thanksgiving Day. People reflect, are spiritual and look forward to the new American administration ahead.

December 2008 has more of a "relaxed" feel to it with the American government fully in transition, as the old is replaced by the new. The stresses of the last two years end with Pluto's entry into tropical Capricorn on Thanksgiving Day, November 27. The last aspects of the Moon to and from Pluto ceases with Pluto leaving tropical Sagittarius. This provides a great load lifted off the shoulders of people worldwide, and people begin to pick up the pieces of their lives ahead of more changes to come in late March 2009 as Venus changes from evening to morning star.

The changes from November's election, and of the years ahead fill people's imaginations with excitement as the Sun, Mercury and Mars transit Sagittarius in November & December, and as the Moon begins a new series of transits through the mutable signs of the zodiac indicating a speedy transition of government between the old administration and the incoming new administration.

December 2008 ends with Saturn stationing retrograde at 21-Virgo on December 31, and with Jupiter making its last transit of tropical Capricorn before making ingress into tropical Aquarius on January 5, 2009. Two weeks before the new president is inaugurated, the people of the world can feel "change" literally in the "air" ~ as this reflects the influence and entry of Jupiter into the 11th House Air Sign of Aquarius. For this time, it does feel like change, as we all begin to sense that indeed, a new has begun, as we are soon to see the dawn of the coming decade of the 2010s.

[rubyelixir]

I don't see that at all.

"The Sun is the natural ruler of kings" in mundane horary.

We find the Sun in Scorpio in the 3rd House.

The Sun's only aspect is an applying sextile to Jupiter who rules the 5th and 8th Houses.

The kingship/presidency is the 10th House ruled by Venus in Sagittarius in the 4th and making a separating aspect to Saturn.

To see a win by Obama, there should be an aspect between the Sun (the president) and Venus (the White House) and there isn't any.

Also note the Sun is Via Combusta.

Mercury ruling the 11th House of Wishes/Dreams/Circumstances beyond our control is Via Combusta.

When the querent and quesited have the same ruler, the quesited gets the ruler and the querent gets the Moon. The Moon is intercepted in the 5th House of Speculation and the Moon rules no house (because Cancer is intercepted in the 11th).

Based on that chart I don't see a win for Obama.

uh......oops?

[emilyelizabeth]

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i14/lovegrove1/McCainJohn.jpg

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i14/lovegrove1/Obama.jpg

AGAIN, Good People,

The time is wrong here for Barack Obama's natal info. I have been given August 4, 1961, 1:06 pm AHST, Honolulu, HI (by a student of Robert Hand). That puts his Sun in the 10th house - the placement of a great orator, for a start. Please refigure your horary and mundane questions according to the correct birth info. if you want to see more accurately.

Peace~

[lillyjgc]

Interesting to re read this thread after so long:
The following members correctly asserted that Obama would win the election. Congratulations to all of you!
Venus in Aries, Rohitshanker, Lost Vegas, Starlink, Hades, Neptune Rising, Ray Austen and Theo.
Well done.
Lilly

[IWDWSWLM]

This question is for Venus in Aries, Rohitshanker, Lost Vegas, Starlink, Hades, Neptune Rising, Ray Austen and Theo.

Since you are the only ones who predicted the 2008 Election correctly, do you see President Obama getting the White House again in 2012?