The Yod of God

[Summery Joy]

The Yod of God

Yeah, yeah. I know that it’s either called the “Yod” or “The Finger of God”. I just like the way it rhymes. Actually, The Finger of God is how I like to call this configuration because it was that name that drew me so much to studying it in the first place. Well, that and the fact that I have one focused on the Moon in the 12th house. Scary, huh? Especially with The Finger of God famous as a neurotic configuration.

Actually, researching this configuration almost gave me neurosis on its own. For some reason not too many astrologers give it the attention they give to other configurations like the Grand Trine or the T-Square. But it was worth every minute spent diving into books and googling up every keyword I could think of. It’s been so enlightening that I’d like to share it with you all. The advanced astrologists will have to forgive me for all the basic information in here. This article is mainly addressed to beginners.

The word “yod” is actually the name of the tenth letter in the Hebrew alphabet. It’s also a Hebrew word that means “hand”. With that finding and the fact that the tenth letter of any alphabet is associated with Jesus in traditional Christianity, it wasn’t too difficult to understand how the yod got its other name. In fact, the yod does point to a place that needs special focus in the chart, it’s almost like God trying to bring your attention to it.

The yod is special because, unlike other configurations, it is formed of very different aspects. There’s a sextile, two quincunxes and a midpoint axis whose ends may form a conjunction and/or an opposition (depending on how you like to use midpoints). See, a yod is formed when two planets, lets call them A and B, form a sextile. A third planet, that we will obviously call C, is positioned exactly opposite to the short distance midpoint between A and B (or in the exact spot of the long distance midpoint of A and B. Take your pick). This placement of C will put in two different quincunxes, one with A and the other with B. Drawing lines connecting all three points, A, B and C, will give you the shape of an isosceles triangle.

Now that we’re done describing the shape of the yod, it’s time to study its effect on the flow of energies between the planets. To do that, we need to study each component (aspect) in its simplest form. Let’s start with the easy one, the sextile. The sextile here is the base of our triangle. We all know that a sextile is a harmonious aspect. Basic astrology books describe its effect as that of a trine, only less. A sextile is harmonious because the planets involved are usually of the same duality, masculine or feminine. This helps the two planets get along and relate easily to one another. Also, they are of different triplicities (quality), which eliminates the conflict over roles or power.

While still on those two planets, it’s appropriate that we study their midpoints. A midpoint between two planets is what it is between any two objects. It is the spot exactly in the middle of the distance between the two points involved. The problem with midpoints in a horoscope, however, is that the two points are not placed on a straight line so that the distance could be measured like a segment. Instead, they are placed in on the circumference of a circle. When you place two objects on a circle, you get two results. One, the distance between them is bent, not straight. So we measure it using a protractor, not a ruler. Two, the planets are bound to be closer from one side than from the other. That is, we get a short distance between the planets involved on one side of the circle and long distance on the other, even if it is by a few minutes. When the midpoints on both distances are calculated, they turn out to be the exact polar opposite of one another (duh!). Connecting them would form the midpoint axis.

Midpoints are not as difficult to understand as they may first appear to be. They are simply what they arein every area in life. A midpoint is that place in the middle, a point where negotiation is easier than other points, a place where compromise is possible for both parties. I wish I could tell you that the energy flow is smoother on the short distance midpoint than that in the long distance midpoint, but I really don’t know that for sure. More research is due on my part, but my Gemini Ascendant is guessing that each point has its pros and cons. The bottom-line is that midpoints are where energies meet somehow. And since we are talking about energies that are already in harmony (two planets in a sextile, remember?), the midpoints involved here are points were those two planet almost unite.

OK. Done with the base of the isosceles, let’s move on to that lonely planet at the pointy end of it. We’ve already established that that planet is in conjunction with the long distance midpoint of the sextile and in opposition to the short distance midpoint. This means that it’s in a quincunx with each of the base planets. This alone is a difficult aspect. Why? Well, think about it this way. A quincunx is an angle of 150 degrees. It’s a semi-sextile too wide to be a trine and a semi-sextile too tight to be an opposition. So, it just happens to be in the middle, sometimes very harmonious and sometimes very stressful. You might say that a conjunction is the same way, but it really isn’t. In a conjunction, the harmonious and stressful energies are blended so that the natal can actually know what to expect. In a quincunx, it’s almost impossible to forecast the next outcome. See, the two planets in a quincunx are usually located in two completely different signs in terms of duality and triplicity. They don’t know what to expect of one another because they behave very differently. Each is a foreigner to the other. So they’re either really hospitable or really hostile. This relationship has a neurotic potential.

Now let’s go back to the ABC isosceles and study it as a whole. A and B are very harmonious and generally agree with one another. C is on the axis in which they most agree. And it just happens that A and B agree to behave unexpectedly to C. You know what this means? A and B can either be very nice to C or team up and beat the **** out of it. C will always be struggling with the AB team until the natal can find a way to reconcile the differences and develop an easier flow of energy that is not too neurotic for C and not too insulting for A and B.

If you have a yod in your chart, identify the planets, signs and houses involved. The energies of the base planets modified by the signs they’re in will be constantly poking the energy of the third planet which will take it in a way described by its sign placement. The house placement of the base planets will be the source of the problem while that of the third planet will be the area that gets most affected by it. The bright side of the a yod (and here’s where the name “Finger of God” resonates strongly again) is that although it gives much trouble growing up, if the natal manages to reconcile the differences he/she will be able to offer an enormous amount of help and support to other people who have any kind of problems in the areas described by the houses involved in his/her yod. It’s as if God or nature or whatever source of life you believe in is telling you to get over things because you have a message to deliver, a life purpose to fulfill.

I’ll use an example from my own chart. Like everyone born in the second half of the twentieth century, I have a sextile between Pluto and Neptune. But my natal Pluto is at 17th degrees Libra in the 5th house and my natal Neptune 17th degree Sagittarius in the 7th house. Not everyone born under this sextile has it so exact. Anyway, the base of the triangle here is indecisive and full of illusions and works mostly in the areas of romance, love and relationships. My natal moon is in Taurus in the ill-reputed 12th house. Granted it’s at the 22nd degree, but I figure an orb of 5 degrees is tight enough to consider the yod. As you can see, the intense/delusional love and romance issues mostly affected my psychological wellbeing. And with the Moon being the focus of the energy, it hasn’t been easy. And since it was a Taurus Moon, it wouldn’t let anyone know about it. Instead, it got the security it needed by not getting involved with anyone at all. I also have Uranus opposite the moon on the short distance midpoint of Pluto and Neptune making things even wilder and crazier, but that’s another story. The point is, after I finally managed to reconcile my energies and figured out how to balance them, I’ve discovered that I’m very gifted in helping people with their relationships and any psychological problems. I have always been actually, but I’ve only recently noticed how good I am and how people feel comfortable seeking me for help. I’m even considering changing my career and become a counselor, but let’s wait till the Saturn return first :D.

I’m almost done here, but before I wrap it up, I’d like to point out that even if you don’t have a yod in your natal chart, you have a potential one if you have a natal sextile. A yod can be formed by a transiting planet falling on the long distance midpoint of the planets forming your natal sextile. This means that there will be recurring times where the house placement of the transiting planet gets some negative attention; each time will differ a tad, though, depending on the transiting planet itself. Outer planets will form long lasting yods. Inner planets will only stay there for so long then move right along. Figure out how to deal with this negative attention. By time, those temporary yods won’t be much trouble, but will rather be times of self-examination and development. After that, you will be the best advice giver in the areas involved in your own yod.

Hope I’ve been helpful.

[Arian Maverick]

I am so excited to see that the Yod has triumphantly returned to the boards...thank you for reviving my favorite topic! *squeals*

Actually, The Finger of God is how I like to call this configuration because it was that name that drew me so much to studying it in the first place. Well, that and the fact that I have one focused on the Moon in the 12th house. Scary, huh? Especially with The Finger of God famous as a neurotic configuration.

Wow, that's certainly one heck of a placement for a yod! I have two malefics in my 12th house no matter what house system you use (Neptune and Saturn conjunction), and Uranus joins them there if you use the Equal House system, so I have a shrewd idea of the dreaded 12th house influence.

Actually, researching this configuration almost gave me neurosis on its own.

Yes! I know exactly what you mean; I have an entire folder dedicated to yods in my favorite places, and I have spent HOURS on end researching them...never finding enough information, never being satisfied. Though I have two main yods in my natal chart and another pointing to my North Node, forming a boomerang to the South Node...I was bound to become obsessed eventually :wink:

Although I have encountered most of the information you've written at one time or another, I found it quite helpful and informative to have another explanation, to have an idea presented in a different way. Thank you for your valuable insight.

A Fellow Yodian,
Aquarian Maverick

P.S. I also have a tight Aries stellium between three of my personal planets, so beware of my unbridled enthusiasm! :twisted:

[Summery Joy]

Aquarian Mavrick wrote

I also have a tight Aries stellium between three of my personal planets, so beware of my unbridled enthusiasm!

Mee too!! Except that mine is in Leo so I probably have more control than you :D

Glad you like the article. I'm thinking of writing another one studying different types of yods (natal, transiting, progressed, etc). Maybe you could help me out with all the resources you got. What do you think?

[Arian Maverick]

Mee too!! Except that mine is in Leo so I probably have more control than you

Ha, I bet you do...Aries is the baby of the zodiac after all :D

Glad you like the article. I'm thinking of writing another one studying different types of yods (natal, transiting, progressed, etc). Maybe you could help me out with all the resources you got. What do you think?

Ack, of course you asked me about a topic I do not know nearly as as much about...but then again, I've only really researched natal yods and I bet I could find some good info about other types as well. Sure, I'll help with resources and such if I can...but I have terrible perpetual writer's block, and that compared with the compulsion and perfectionism of my yods (pluto apex in Scorpio...not pretty) renders me useless in such endeavors. The sad thing about all of this is that I'm more than a decent writer, but I'm so self-critical that I can never get passed my topic sentence without making at least twenty corrections. And I spend the rest of that time idle at my keyboard idle, conjuring worst-case-scenerios in my head in which my ideas are scorned. It's tough having one or more yods in your chart, isn't it? :oops:

Aquarian Maverick

[johan]

Hi Sorehearted,

I really like your post of the yod,first extended general information,and than an example of how you experience the yod in your chart.

Me myself am totally lost now in astrologyland,just recognizing only a few things in my own chart,so I was hoping you can help me here a little bit.

My yod is pluto in virgo in H12 with neptune in scorpio in H3,the apexplanets are venus and saturn in the end of H7.(They are in conjunction)

I really tried to see how this yod can be of value of me and others.Understanding it correctly,the yod can give difficulties in earlier times in your life,but if you master it it can be helpful for yourself and others.

Really tried to understand it with houses and aspects and signs and the meaning of planets,and reading and trying etc. etc. etc.It is really frustating me that I cannot make a total picture of it myself.

Just hoping you can make something of it,it doesn't have to be correct,just hope you give it a try,so I can work on it myself.

An eager student of astrology
Johan

[Arian Maverick]

What am I, chopped liver? :roll:

I think it would be easier for everyone to interpret your yod if you posted your natal information...people tend to be visual around here.

I too am on a similar quest, so hopefully we can learn together...I have several conjunct planets involved in my yods, so I can relate to the multiple combination of energies. First it might be useful to assess these conjunctions and see if you can find any information in the particular manner in which this energy may manifest. For example, I have a Saturn/Neptune conjunction that forms one of the points of my yods and I located a great article about it here:

http://www.astrologyforthesoul.com/billstreett/satnepgestalt.html

I know this probably doesn't relate to your own natal chart, but it may be beneficial for you to read if only to gain an introduction on how two very different energies (i.e. Saturn/Venus) may combine in a beneficial manner.

Remember that there really isn't any one part of your chart that's more important than another...I tend to get really excited about my yods since my chart would look rather plain without them, but you can find value in every dynamic--whether it is perceived as a benefic (good) or malefic (bad).

Aquarian Maverick

[Arian Maverick]

I admit that I have not mastered intuitive interpretation yet, but perhaps I can be of use assembling the pieces so you can make your own conclusions. Here's some information I found:

Venus conjunct Saturn
A conjunction of Venus and Saturn shows the necessity to make concessions to others to get what you want. You have to adjust to make relationships work. Many of your relationships are unsatisfactory or restricting in some ways. You feel you are being used or perhaps they are just not fulfilling. It may be that you have to give more than the other person does. Pessimism may mark your attitude toward personal relationships. This aspect also relates to financial matters. Your judgment in material affairs is sound, and you are very self-disciplined in handling money.

These energies are found in the seventh house of "marriage and all forms of partnerships"...VERY interesting and relatively straight-forward from the above description, I think. And with this as the apex point, the Yod of God is giving is not simply nudging you to think about your relationships...the "finger" will poke you repeatedly in the gut you until the situation gets your attention! 8)

I have also seen some of our more experienced members on these boards take the Sabian Symbol of the point exactly opposite the apex...you may be surprised at the insight this may provide!

My 2c worth,
Aquarian Maverick

[johan]

Sorry aquarian maverick,this was not meant to exclude everyone out so only sorehearted would react,but because she found out herself what the yod meant to her,i was hoping she could also shed some light about my yod.

And i am happy to join you on your quest to learn astrology....
But i am also angry with myself for not coming any further right now.

So i am trying here to gain some insights here on the yod(i know i should consider the whole chart aquarian maverick).
Thanks for the information so far.I am hoping that someone will try to interpret my yod as a whole,concerning the houses and signs and planets,so feel free a.m!
My birthdata can be found in the thread pluto-mercury by the way,i have seen your chart

By the way, what does maverick mean?

Johan

[Arian Maverick]

Sorry aquarian maverick,this was not meant to exclude everyone out so only sorehearted would react,but because she found out herself what the yod meant to her,i was hoping she could also shed some light about my yod.

I too must appologize...my fiery Aries stellium (which includes the Sun--ego) gives me a tendency to react a bit too quickly to trifle situations.

And i am happy to join you on your quest to learn astrology....
But i am also angry with myself for not coming any further right now.

I know exactly how you feel...no matter how many questions I've asked, no matter how many wonderful replies I've received, I feel as if I have only hacked away at the tip of the iceburg--and there's still such a long way to go. Perhaps it comes with the Yod territory...in that case, consider yourself fully initiated and part of the club! 8)

Here's some advice...but as the popular saying going around here (I forget exactly who uses it) "take what fits and ditch the rest."

Sometimes I have to remind myself that Astrology is not an exact science, but rather an intuitive art--based on scientific calculations of course, yet it transcends numbers and degrees and orbs. You have to trust your instincts--a daunting task, I know, and one I will likely struggle with for the rest of my life--and embrace your own truths.

By the way, what does maverick mean?

I'm glad you asked! Let's consult dictionary.com for this one...

Maverick- One that refuses to abide by the dictates of or resists adherence to a group; a dissenter.

My ruling planet is Uranus, after all :wink:

Aquarian Maverick

[sophie]

:evil: :D :twisted: Yod is in my chart to. Thank you for this interesting interpretation and as your explanations flow i could reconnize a direct and cruel experience i had with my yod. First of all to place a real yod the apex planet has to be a personnal one, it excludes others.
To speak about my darling one i get hurt but did not get the best of it so I am still seeking for directions.... :idea: Some help please....
so the bas is a sextile neptune 6°Scorpio in IV H/ saturne 5° Capricorne in VI H;;the apex is mars 5° Gemini in XI H. Complication comes with jupiter 1° Sagi opp mars standing in the middle.
I met two strangers at differents parts of my life and the propose was truelly love or hate i did felt on both and was nearly dead, then i became a fortune teller and spoke with thousands people on phone. I helped but it weaked my self. Originally i am an artist but my creativity gets some how destroyed by the whole experience. The finger was so violent i never recover really even if married now it was like escaping thoses violentissimo events. If you get any idea about how i can heal thank's a lot

[Radu]

Great post, SoreHearted!

I don't have a natal yod, but just like almost everybody here in their 20ies there is a natal Pluto Neptune sextile. In 1998 when the secondary progressed Moon was in exact quincunx with both Neptune and Pluto - forming a yod, a finger of God, I went to yoga classes, and met a yoga master, a guru, who is member of the world yoga board. Then a little bit later, when the progressed Moon was the apex of a yod formed by Neptune and Mars, I started practicing hatha yoga, which was really a spiritualizing experience. (Mars and Pluto are conjunct in my chart).
Pluto & Neptune = spiritual master, guru
Mars & Neptune = hatha yoga

I should study this further, it's quite interesting.

Btw, do you people think that there is a relationship between yod and iodine ?!? Iodine is a chemical element required for the well functioning of the thyroid gland, for the secretion of thyroidian hormones. Lack of iodine in diet during early infancy leads to cretinism.

[Summery Joy]

Wow, my Leo stellium is ecstatic with all the attention this thread is getting. I’m glad so many of you find it helpful.

Radu,

I don't really know if there's a relation, but I don't know that much about idine. It's a notion that should be researched though.

Now, let’s take one personal yod at a time.

johan,

I tried constructing your natal chart using the data you provided in the Pluto-Mercury thread, but got you Venus and Saturn in the 8th house, not the 7th.

Your data as you provided it was

Born on the 26th of march 1969,18.28 in Slikkerveer, the Netherlands.

I got an ASC at 0 degrees Libra and Venus and Saturn a couple of degrees into the 8th house. I’d rather not take a shot at your yod until you assure me that I have the correct chart here.

Sophie,

Although I’d rather take a look at your chart as a whole, I’ll try to work with the information you’ve provided.

The base is the Scorpio Neptune in 4th house sextile the Capricorn Saturn in the 6th house.

The Capricorn Saturn in the 6th house is already a restriction factor in your chart. This placement increases both ambition and fear. It makes the natal responsible; so responsible they almost cannot have fun. The fear factor plus the responsible sense eventually drives the natal to put rationality above emotions. That’s at best. At worst, the natal can completely disown their emotions due to fear of getting hurt or the scare of having their feelings for others allow those others to have power over them. Saturn in your chart is also in the 6th house. Saturn works well in the 6th house. Its Capricorn traits here are, thus, dignified. The 6th house Saturn also may make you a hard worker who doesn’t get the recognition or compensation you deserve until very late on the same job. Although this may be very frustrating, it offers good potential of starting your own business where you can be the boss, the one who calls the shots.

The Scorpio Neptune in the 4th house is a placement that can be interpreted in so many different ways. What I can tell you for sure is that Neptune’s illusions colored with the Scorpio shade of transformation and intensity will cause you to “expect” emotional support and valuables (material and otherwise) from others. Being in the 4th house, the others here are you family, close beloveds and anything related to your parents or household. You are probably very sensitive to your inner, personal environment expecting the same from those around you. At its best, this placement could mean very strong emotional bonds between you and your family. At its worst, it could mean deception in the home life.

These two energies work well together because of the sextile combining them. Working well doesn’t mean the effect is good. Rather, it means that each can function without conflict, but with support of the other. Normally, a Neptune-Saturn sextile means that the natal can bring realism and idealism together to accomplish goals and dreams. The problem you have here is the sign placements of the two planets, Scorpio and Capricorn. When combining Capricorn and Scorpio we combine sensitivity and responsibility at best and planning and revenge at worst. The two areas generating any issues involved here are home, emotions, security, etc and work, duty, service, etc.

I suggest that you use any online midpoint calculator using the exact placements of Neptune and Saturn (By degrees and minutes). Look up the Sabian Symbols for both the short and long distance midpoints to get an extra insight about your yod.

That was the base of the isosceles; let’s move on to the apex.

The planet suffering the neurotic relationship with the Neptune-Saturn team is your Gemini Mars in the 11th house. Mars’ main function is drive and passion. In a mutable sign like Gemini, its focus is scattered about a bit. The natal tends to get easily bored with current endeavors, always looking for something new; otherwise, the natal loses their energy and becomes sort of empty, uninterested in things in general. Also, Mars functions as our warrior side and in Gemini your weapon is a verbal one. You use word for attack and defense. A debate with you would be a difficult one to win. As a ruler of some of the attraction factors, Mars Gemini will get you attracted to men who make you curious in general, guys whose only constant is change. Unfortunately, Mars in Gemini is less independent than it would like to be.

Mars in the 11th house will give you a passion for friendships from different circles, humanitarian purposes and (here comes the first conflict) the tendency to give outside circles priority over family and close circles. Also, the fact that your Mars is Geminian will constantly drive you to change circles or at least make new friends all the time. The result is a wide circle of completely different acquaintances and very, very few friends, if any.

Done with the apex. Now, let’s take a look at the dynamic as a whole.

This is your yod as it looks to me:
The Neptune-Saturn sextile versus Mars,
Scorpio energy + Capricorn energy against Gemini energy
Family and home with work and responsibility on one side and outer social circles and higher hopes on the other side

Growing up, you probably faced problems relating to your inability to decide whether your priority was you first or others first. Sometimes it seemed as if you could manage both, but for the most part you just couldn’t. You felt the need to be free of liability, but liability always chased you (and you always chased it, in case you didn’t know). You had problems with self-confidence, especially when comparing yourself to other people doing the same thing that you did (colleagues or school peers perhaps). You’ve probably tried to assert yourself (maybe in the area of home and emotions as compensation mechanism), yet there were still lots of disappointments to deal with. You may have tried to look for other states of consciousness to ease all the pain. As you’ve already said, you tried to be a fortuneteller. I can see how you got there. You’d better be careful, though, because extra stress or exhaustion may lead you to seek the numbing effects of drugs or alcohol. On a harmless side though, you may be lead to consider religion and spirituality or to study the human nature through one discipline or another, like psychology or (surprise, surprise) astrology.

All in all, you probably grew up with feeling that your responsibility for home (family, emotions, loved ones, etc) and service (work, duty, worry about others, etc.) has been conflicting with your hopes to make a difference in the world and humankind (this could be on a large or small scale, depending on the size of your social circle). Sometimes you feel the home and service is the way to go, but no matter how many times you decide to stick to them, you get drawn back out and the war starts again.

What you really need to find a way to reconcile the differences between your responsibility for your closer circle and your purpose for the outer-circle. It’s highly likely that you have been putting yourself through this stress all that time and thinking it’s others that have been doing this to you. Remember, people treat us the way we treat ourselves, they look upon us the way we look upon ourselves. It’s possible that your need to chose between one side or the other is the reason why people have expected you to do that. The fact of the matter is, you can resolve these issues starting with self-confidence and people will sort of just adapt to your choice.

I’m done here, but I need to note again and again that I’ve only explored this one yod and I have no idea what the rest of your chart looks like. Other natal placements of yours may alter the effect of this yod.

Hope I’ve been helpful.

[wilsontc]

heart,

Great job with analyzing Sophie's yod. The only thing I'd add is that the "Yod" is actually a "boomerang". Sophie said:
the bas is a sextile neptune 6°Scorpio in IV H/ saturne 5° Capricorne in VI H;;the apex is mars 5° Gemini in XI H. Complication comes with jupiter 1° Sagi opp mars standing in the middle....

That opposition to Mars changes the focus from Mars (being, also action) to Jupiter (expansion, also wisdom), so there is a focus on knowing USING Sophie's understanding of who she is what she does (i.e., her "being"). More about boomerangs here:
http://www.astro-horoscopes.net/HTML/FAQs/AspectPatterns.html#Boomerang

Boomeranging,

Tim

[wilsontc]

heart,

You are correct:
...got you [Johan] Venus and Saturn in the 8th house, not the 7th.

Venus and Saturn are in the 8th house and VERY close to the 7th house, so I would position Venus and Saturn as being in BOTH houses. So Venus and Saturn are in the 7th using this system. The other thing to remember about Venus and Saturn in the 7th is that Venus RULES (easy energy) the 7th and Saturn is EXALTED (very easy energy) in the 7th. So Venus conjunct (energy is combined with) go VERY well in the 7th house. Since Saturn has to do with duty and responsibility and Venus has to do with relationships, the person with Venus conjunct Saturn in the 7th will tend to do best with serious, long-term relationships and may business partnerships (since Saturn also has to do with career).

That being said, since Venus is ALSO focused in the 8th house (transformation, also control), the house of its detriment (challenging energy), relationships could also be a source of challenges and a need to "control or be controlled".

Also, Aries (being) modifies Saturn, which is Saturn in the sign of its fall (very challenging) energy, which could indicate the person is more concerned for their self and how they are in the relationship than in the relationship itself.

This combination of challenging and easy energies with Venus conjunct Saturn could result in relationships "going back and forth": sometimes easy but other times very challenging.

Saturnally yours,

Tim

[johan]

Sorehearted,

It's the placidus/koch thing again.

Really liked what you wrote for Sophie,hope you will give it a go for me to,as soon as you have the time of course.

Radu,I don't know if this is helpful,but there is a dutch website concerning the relationship of chakras and organs,think you can translate it with bablefish.In dutch iodine is called jodium,and this product is only used for the thyroid gland: www.stamcel.org/html/schildklier.htm

If you can translate it ,I think you like it,a virgolike summary this site gives :roll:

Johan

[johan]

Wilson tc,

Had not seen your post,because I was creating mine.
Gonna study it now.
And to confuse a beginner in astrology like me more:In aries,sun is in exaltation ,saturn in fall and venus in detriment if I am correct.H7 is like libra,so logically it is almost the other way around(venus as the ruler,saturn in exaltation and sun in fall)
What is of more weight to you here,wilson tc,the house or the sign?Sorry,typing this I am going to fast here for myself,first gonna read your post thoroughly,just a little bit overexcited here.....

I have edited this post,wilsontc,I understand what you mean,so forget the above question,really have the feeling i learned here something,thanks.

[Summery Joy]

Johan,

I only do placedius, so that's what I'll use. Forgive me if I'm imposing a specfic system, but I don't know how to use the other systems. I'll post my interpretation of your yod tomorrow though.

Tim,

You said;
Saturn is EXALTED (very easy energy) in the 7th

Isn't Saturn exalted in the 6th house? I think Saturn in the 7th is an affliction to the house.

[johan]

You are very much forgiven,really thankful that you will take the time for my yod-interpretation!!!!!

[Radu]

Isn't Saturn exalted in the 6th house? I think Saturn in the 7th is an affliction to the house.
If there is to be a house "exaltation" of the planets, the traditional astrology term to be used is "joy". The astrological tradition considers that Mercury has its joy in the 1st house, the Moon in the 3rd house, Venus in the 5th house, Mars in the 6th house, the Sun in the 9th house, Jupiter in the 11th house and Saturn in the 12th house.

[Arian Maverick]

If there is to be a house "exaltation" of the planets, the traditional astrology term to be used is "joy". The astrological tradition considers that Mercury has its joy in the 1st house, the Moon in the 3rd house, Venus in the 5th house, Mars in the 6th house, the Sun in the 9th house, Jupiter in the 11th house and Saturn in the 12th house.

Really? My Saturn doesn't seem very joyful in the 12th house to me... :roll:

Aquarian Maverick

[wilsontc]

heart,

Since Saturn is exalted in Libra, and Libra is associated with the 7th house, I extend it and say Saturn is exalted both in Libra and in 7th house. Sometimes this is put as "accidentally exalted", since it is an exaltation of house, not sign. I do not focus on ancient/traditional/mediaeval astrology, so I limit my discussion to rulership, detriment, exaltation, and fall, without using the other ancient terms (e.g., in "joy", etc.).

Here is a link to a site which also uses this system. Notice Saturn in the 1rst house (house associated with Aries) is Saturn in the house of its fall, and Saturn is in fall in Aries:
http://www.san.beck.org/Astro-Saturn.html

I, too, am using the Placidus house system.

Keeping it simple,

Tim

[sophie]

Wilsonic, Thank you for yourinterpretation and to show me the boomerang interpretation . I will work on it a bit longer..... :roll:

[Summery Joy]

Radu,

Yes, you're correct. Joy is what is used to describe the house equivalent of exaltation. But I was actually going the way Tim was going, using exltation of planets in signs as guideline. Joy works better though.

Tim,

Again I'm confused. Isn't Saturn exalted in Virgo, which is associated with the 6th house?

[wilsontc]

heart,

Saturn is exalted in Libra, which is associated with the 7th house. MERCURY is exalted in Virgo...although this gives some astrologers fits ;) , since Mercury is ALSO the ruler of Virgo. These astrologers then create new exaltations for Mercury...but Mercury is the traditional one.

More here about traditional rulership (second section, middle of the page):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrological_sign

In exaltation,

Tim

[Summery Joy]

Tim,

Oh wow. Saturn is exalted in Libra. I've been doing things wrong for a very long time!!!! Thank you for correcting me. I still think Saturn in the 7th house is an affliction though. Through my short experience, I've noticed that natals of Saturn in the 7th house cannot maintain a stable relationship until their first Saturn return. And those who get married before then either end up with a divorce or a really lousy marriage that cannot be fixed even after the Saturn return. But like I said, my experience is quite short. I've only been doing astrology for a year. Maybe I'll come across some cases that will prove my theory wrong.

Johan,

Here we go.

The base of the yod is formed of Pluto and Neptune. Let's study each separately first.

Pluto in Virgo, of course, has a generational effect. The functions of Pluto are mainly transformation, reconstruction after destruction and .. well.. extremes! Virgo colors the planets with shades of service, health and critical attitudes. So as a generation, these natals tend to help the world transform through perfection and health. It's highly likely to find them very interested in environmental issues.

Virgo, however, is a pretty unconfident sign. It tends to give a sense of responsibility and duty that lead to hard work (which is, my opinion, a defense mechanism against the low self-confidence). And with the extremist Pluto being colored here, related issues can be really high or really low.
Your natal Pluto is in the 12th house, the house with the worst reputation of all. And Pluto's energies are cruel to deal with much of the time. The 12th house is the dump where we hide things from ourselves and others, and Pluto's functions include secrets. With this placement it can be very hard – if not almost impossible – for you to open up to others. You have a great potential for psychological transformation though. It's just that you have to be careful with your ability of self-analysis. You can either use it or abuse it. Also, this placement can give potential for abusive drug or alcohol consumption.

Moving on to your natal Neptune; you got it in Scorpio in the 3rd house. It's interesting to find Neptune and Scorpio involved a sextile with Pluto in the 12th house. It will increase the intensity of the preceding issues. Illusions, delusions collective consciousness, higher spiritual perception are colored by transformation and, again, secrets and extremes. This time it's in those life areas related to the 3rd house. Siblings, neighbors, communication abilities, analytical potential, early learning stages and pretty much anything related to your mental ability will be affected be this placement. Like I’ve told Sophie already, Neptune’s illusions colored with the Scorpio shade of transformation and intensity will cause you to “expect” emotional support and valuables (material and otherwise) from others. She had to deal with that in the 4th house, you in the 3rd. Neptune will cause issues with you and your siblings, neighbors and anyone that you place in that category. You can switch from very close bonds to illusions and deception as intensely as your Scorpio related placements allow you (i.e., a lot). Aside from that, Neptune in the 3rd house can defuse your mental ability and concentration, but can give you a lot of talent. Don't do accounting, but do write fiction novels. You know what I mean?

You have special placements here. Pluto and Neptune are retrograde in your natal chart. Retrograde planets are usually associated with the first part of the word; "re". When transiting planets are retrograding, astrologers will tell you to re-do things in the area of your life related to the house under the Rx transit. When you're born under a retrograde planet, you tend to re-do things in that area of your life on your own. Yes, this means that the forgoing interpretation of your natal Pluto and Neptune will be issues that you deal with over and over again. Like everything, this has its pros and cons. The biggest pro is that every time you re-do something, you get better at it. You see new things that you missed the last time around. As they say, practice makes perfect. The main downside, and this will be especially obvious in your chart with Pluto, Neptune and the 12th house involved, is that you can obsessive about the issues in question. In your case, I can see potential of extreme self-undoing, destruction and trying to the construct with even more destructive tools. If you do suffer a lot from the downside of this placement, just remember that retrograde motion is an optical illusion due to the geocentric perceptive of astrology. Pluto wasn't really moving backwards when you were born. It just seemed to be doing so. I'd go on about how to deal with natal planets in Rx motion, but this is not the point of this post.

Anyhow, I think you can see how your natal Pluto and Neptune placements have affinity for one another. Throw in the sextile and you got yourself one tough team to beat.

Unlike like most of the yod natals, on the other side you got another team. You don't have one planet on the apex, you have two. Although team Vs team is fairer than team Vs one player, this particular situation will give you a tough battle. If you're into sports, you'll know what I mean. Have you ever watched a game where a strong team played against a mediocre team? The strong team will slaughter the weak one, but it will still be an easy game for both parties. But when two tough teams are playing, it's an interesting game with a lot of energy and conflict involved. Can you imagine such game where there is no particular time limit? Don't freak out. It's not so bad. Such games are actually good for the development of both teams. To see how that applies to you, let's study the apex team.

Saturn is in conjunction with Venus Rx in Aries in the 8th house. Tim is right. Saturn here is in fall. But “fall” doesn’t mean a bad placement. It simply means that the functions of the planet involved are colored with highly unusual shades. Saturn is cold and its functions include restriction, duty, responsibility, fear, care, etc. Aries gives a fiery cardinal warrior color with more than a hint of a leaping-before-thinking attitude. Normally, Saturn would be more than glad to sit down and wait until everything is thought out rationally and analytically. But Saturn in Aries just cannot wait and think. A good thing about this placement (in my opinion) is that its natals tend to gain security through initiative, something that is very much unlike Saturn.

Saturn is also used in a natal chart to point out the area of life where the natal would have a good career or assume most of their responsibilities. Yours is in the 8th house. This placement suggests a good career dealing with other people’s resources. You could be a lawyer or a banker using the energy of this placement (very much unlike what the base of your yod suggests, huh?). Maybe you’ll find yourself assuming responsibilities that should normally be assumed by your partners. The 8th house is also associated with sexuality. Saturn is a restrictive bundle of energy which gives the natal - with such placement - a need to have sexual matters organized and under control. However, your Saturn is in Aries, so this is a problem that you should be able to overcome. Also this placement could suggest problems in matters of credit, shared resources or inheritance. Yeah, you should be good managing other people’s resources, but not your own that are somehow linked to other people’s resources.

Venus is also in Aries. Venus is associated with arts as well as love and sexual attraction. Natals with this placement are likely to be direct and bold in the way you flirt. It’s fairly easy for them to get swept away with desire. They need constant excitement in relationships other wise they’ll just get bored. Exciting and risky is better than boring and comfortable for them. I don’t think you’re totally out of control that way but you could be obsessive for two reasons; your Venus is conjunct Saturn and it happens to be in retrograde motion.

Venus is used in the natal chart to show the area in life where natal would be most expressive of affection and social and artistic attributes. Yours is in the 8th house. My, oh my! You’re highly likely to express affection and creativity in sex. On the other hand, if Venus or the 8th house suffer affliction, there may be inherent fear and/or anger of inability to enjoy relationships to the fullest. There’s also a chance of material gain through partners (unlike what Saturn says, huh?). Again, keep in mind the Venus is Rx.

Ok. Try to fuse the energies of Saturn and Venus. You’ll see that their team gives them fire and initiative in issues related to others. But they are in a conjunction here, which means that their energies can be stressful or harmonious depending on many different factors. You’ll feel the expression of love and arts (Venus) within yourself, but you’ll feel that it is somehow under restriction (Saturn).

Let’s watch the game, shall we? On one side we have a team powered by the affinity felt by its members and the harmonious flow of energy between them. The other team is influential also but the members have very different functions and the flow of energy is stressful much of the time. Again, the base times wins and the apex team suffers.

Areas of struggling with psychological wellbeing, self-undoing, hazy communication and possible problematic relationships with siblings and/or neighbors will team up and affect the ability of expression in and sound management of possible outcomes of relationships. Sometimes the dreamy base will let the apex have a nice fantasy and other times it’ll just ruin everything that apex is trying to do. The Finger of God is pointing at the problems relating to relationships outcomes. You have to realize that these problems are not caused by the other person involved. It’s all coming from within. It’s not that the other person is not letting you express or doesn’t understand, it’s just that you’re expecting what is normally too much to be expected. Also, there’s a possibility that you project your own problems or attributes on others. A lot of denial is in the air.

You have a lot of healing powers. You need to use them on yourself. So you’re dreamy and you’re head is more in the clouds than on Earth? Good. Share the feeling. Picking the right words may be difficult at first, but you can learn. Share your dreams and psychic abilities. Just teach yourself to remember that your mind works in a different way than others and if they can’t understand you than maybe you need to explain with patience, if you want that is. Just don’t point the finger of blame to others. Turn it around and you’ll see that the solution lies within. If you can reconcile the differences between the yod members, you’ll be able to heal many relationships, including your own. See if the rest your chart has energies that could help with that.

By the way, I didn’t look at the rest of the chart. I’m sorry, but I’ve been so busy lately that it too me three days to write your yod interpretation alone. Much of what I said could be away from the truth if more powerful contradicting energies exist in your natal chart. So, like Elianah says, take what fits and ditch the rest.

Hope I’ve been helpful.

[johan]

Sorehearted,

Thank you for the time taken to do your interpretation of my yod.
A lot of what you said makes a lot of sense.

Don't want to right now to say things about it,later.
First have to absorb the information you supplied completely.

It is helpful.At the moment it is difficult for me to concentrate.

Thanks very much,i will feedback later,if that is okay with you

Can't thank you enough,Johan

[Summery Joy]

Oh, take your time, Johan. It's your yod ;)

[johan]

Sore,

Keeping it short and simple:
A lot of things you say,i would say bingo!(not all of course,like you say,it is not my whole chart!No banker or lawyer :lol: or aspirations for it)

The potention for drug-abuse:never used harddrugs,but smoking is obsessive to me.A lot of people smoke of course,but not the way i do,tending to use it as an excuse for everything,obsessivelike.

Saturn/venus:yes,something like the brake on your car or as an astrologer described it:venus nudges her little nose to saturn.

Just picking out some things here out of your explanation,liked the way you used it as two teams.Won't discuss the rest of it sorehearted,it's enough i have learned something here(and i don't mean just the two things i picked out of your explanation,but i won't go saying things about the rest,but use it for myself ),thanx!

[wilsontc]

johan,

You said:
Just picking out some things here out of your explanation,liked the way you used it as two teams.Won't discuss the rest of it sorehearted,it's enough i have learned something here(and i don't mean just the two things i picked out of your explanation,but i won't go saying things about the rest,but use it for myself ),thanx!

And THAT'S the power of astrology. One person can give another person VERY good advice without for anyone needing to reveal anything to each other. It preserves privacy while it encourages self-development! A real "two-fer". Uranus rules astrology and Uranus is about helping with other people's self-expression. By sharing our astrological knowledge with each other we bring the promise of Uranus into the power of astrology!

Uranistically,

Tim

[johan]

Tim,

Nothing more to add to what you said,

Student of astrology,

Johan

[Arian Maverick]

Uranistically

Great new word, Tim! No wonder I love astrology so much...Uranus is my natal ruling planet! :D

Aquarian Maverick

[Summery Joy]

Yup,

I agree with Tim. The interpretation is yours to ponder on as you like. Glad I've been of help.

[Arian Maverick]

Since yods are one of my favorite topics, I refuse to let this thread die yet :D

I am curious how multiple conjunct planets forming points of a yod will affect its overall significance and flavor...sometimes I feel like a have too much information to work with :roll:

For example, in one of my yods I have a tight Sun/Mercury/Venus conjunction sextile Mars, both inconjunct to Pluto...so practically all of my personal planets are involved in some form of transformation. I am always curious how to interpret this...

Does anyone else have a similar configuration?

Aquarian Maverick

[danny99star]

A book (can't remember which one) said people with yod in their natal chart can often feel that they are the exception of the rule. I have a yod with sun as the apex inconjunct neptune and pluto. My sun is in the ninth house conjunct Chiron and Part of Fortune. I feel that I have been the exception of the rule in my educational history. In high school, I am the only one out of hundreds that didn't have to pay a penny of tuition or for any textbook. It last for three years until I graduated (not that I am from some powerful family, believe me...the whole thing is solely b/c of my academic performance) Now I came to US for graduate studies as an international student, and I have got great opportunity to be able to work full-time in industry and also be able to finish my PhD's - it is really hard to work out for international students b/c of visa issue and legal work status. I have met a lot of obstacles on the way and things just turned around and worked out in a dramatical way...

My sun also trines vertex. I feel strongly fated, especially about relationship. All girls I have ever had feelings on are sun Leo. I even met and loved two girls with the same birthday.

I also have a kite that I don't know how to fly... heehee

[Summery Joy]

Aquarian Maverick,

OK, I cannot quite visualize your yod, but I can offer some tips.

First, the apex of the yod is always the point of suffering until the neutrotic energies are reconciled. No matter how many planets there are at the apex, this is where the yod is pointing.

A way to understand the apex is figure out how the energies work on their own, apart from the inconjuncts going on with the base, is to look up the interpretation of each placement alone (Planet in sign in house). Consider everything, including special placements like Rx motion. After you have figured out how each planet at the apex works alone, try to imagine all these energies fused together. It won't be hard since all conuctions are most often in the same house and sign. In your case, ego, creativity, self-expression, emotional expression and physical love are energies that cannot be separated.

After you've figured that out, do the same with the base then compare the two team. But always keep in mind the the base team is teh source of the problem and the apex team is where you suffer most because of the problem. After reconciling the energies, the base will be sources of wisdom and the apex will be the area you can help others with. This basically the yod in a nutshell.

Danny,

Yeah, I've always felt like the exception of a rule, but I never attributed that to my yod. I just figured it's all just rebelion of the youth or something :)

Say, does your yod change in any way in your relocational chart?

[danny99star]

sorehearted, good question... In my relocation chart, sun now is conjunct with IC, and pluto/neptune are located in the 8th/11th houses.

Maybe the good luck I have in my education is only because my sun/PoF is natally in the 9th and Jupiter is now in the 9th in the relocation chart. I really don't know how to explain my yod - pluto in 2nd, neptune in the 4th and sun as the apex.

Now I just begin my career and speaking of that, Mercury is my 1st and 10th house ruler, and it falls in Gemini / the natal 10th house. Mercury is also one apex in my kite. I really like this planet. Hope it wil make my career path smooth.

One thing interesting is that since pluto/saturn/mars now are in my 8th house in the relocation chart, right after the third yr I am in US, I began to dig into western astrology.

[wilsontc]

Maverick,

You said:
I am curious how multiple conjunct planets forming points of a yod will affect its overall significance and flavor...sometimes I feel like a have too much information to work with...

That's EXACTLY the effect of a Yod...there is so much informational energy pouring in from the that something HAS to be done about it. But if there is a LOT of information pouring in then the grand question is...WHAT should be done about it? ;) Don't worry, this energy HAS to find an outlet. Perhaps, in your case, Pluto (transformation) focused in the 9th house (expansion, also wisdom) is about trasforming yourself and others through sharing your wisdom and desire to learn more!

Yodationally transformative,

Tim

[sita]

I've been following the thread, but I'm not sure I get this yod thing. I think God is pointing to my dilapidated Venus, but I'm not sure. If Neptune's in H10 Sag at 18 degrees, Pluto's in H8 Libra at 15 degrees, and Venus is across the way in H3 Taurus at 12 dgrees, Is this still a yod, even if that Venus is oppositioned to Uranus in 9H Scorpio?

Sita

Ps: sorehearted, you can add another native to that Saturn in the Seventh House concept you are building... I have that placement and I am totally unstable in relationships and don't have the slighest idea about what my destiny is in love. It could be really really good, but it could be just as equally tragic. I blame Uranus.

[johan]

Sita,

you have a boomerang,a yod with a special effect,in your case uranus
(look at the first page of this thread of Tim,he also refers to a site)

I had never heard of it,boomerang
Maybe it is time for Tim to try to explain your boomerang for insights

[Arian Maverick]

OK, I cannot quite visualize your yod, but I can offer some tips.

I'll post my natal chart here to make visualization easier then :wink:

http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/6949/mynatalchart8nh.png (http://imageshack.us)

Here is another version that Tim kindly e-mailed me...it's much more detailed than the Astrodienst chart.

http://img471.imageshack.us/img471/1521/aquarianmaverickchart2uq.png (http://imageshack.us)

Thank you all for the overwhelming number of responses...I actually did not expect this topic to come around again! Typical Balsamic Moon pessimism :roll:

Aquarian Maverick

[sita]

Aquarian Maverick, if you're still here, can you tell me anything about my boomeranging yod?

http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?nhor=1&nho2=3&btyp=24&mth=gw&hsy=&zod=&sday=4&smon=2&syr=2006&rs=&orbp=&cid=8d3filegbpf9Z-u1132608114&lang=e&gm=a1&ast=

[Arian Maverick]

Aquarian Maverick, if you're still here, can you tell me anything about my boomeranging yod?

You trust me to do an interpretation? :o

I'm not seeing any green inconjunct indicators on this Astrodienst chart...are you sure that you have a boomerang yod? Your Grand Trines are the most obvious configurations, along with your T-square that almost forms a Kite, but I'm not seeing what I would usually interpret as a yod or boomerang. Perhaps someone who has a more advanced astrology program can check this out...or perhaps I'm simply missing the obvious?

I've been following the thread, but I'm not sure I get this yod thing. I think God is pointing to my dilapidated Venus, but I'm not sure. If Neptune's in H10 Sag at 18 degrees, Pluto's in H8 Libra at 15 degrees, and Venus is across the way in H3 Taurus at 12 dgrees, Is this still a yod, even if that Venus is oppositioned to Uranus in 9H Scorpio?

Ah, I believe that I'm finally beginning to see what you were referring to in your post, but Astrodienst is not recognizing the angles from Neptune to Venus and Pluto to Venus as inconjuncts...if you do a quick estimation, Neptune is approximately 122 degrees from Venus and Pluto 147 degrees (hopefully I didn't botch up my calculations too badly). Although the Venus-Pluto relationship is close to the required 150 degrees, the Neptune-Pluto relationship is 28 degrees off-target...much closer to a trine than an inconjunct.

EDIT: I just tried another technique of taking the midpoint of the sextile between Neptune and Pluto, and finding the opposition of that point. Since Uranus is pretty much smack center, and Venus is opposite Uranus...I am pretty much back where I started :roll:

Before this image expires, or if the link doesn't work for everyone, I will post your Astrodienst natal chart below...in an attempt to solve this problem, I took the liberty of changing the settings to show ALL aspects. Hope this helps:

http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/4245/sitaraallaspects9jk.png (http://imageshack.us)

Aquarian Maverick

P.S. I see from this updated chart that you have some interesting Quintile, Biquintile, and sesquiquadrate aspects...I am seeing something here which lightly resembles a yod pointing to your moon. Is anyone here familiar with any different types besides the sextile yod?

[sita]

:oops: Aquarian Maverick... you are so silly! of course I trust you to dissect my chart. You are an astrology wiz, quit pretending. I'm an aries/aquarius, too, remember?? Can't fool me about what talents you are hiding!!! :lol: You're very gifted. The universe told me so. No arguing.

[Arian Maverick]

Aquarian Maverick... you are so silly! of course I trust you to dissect my chart. You are an astrology wiz, quit pretending. I'm an aries/aquarius, too, remember?? Can't fool me about what talents you are hiding!!! You're very gifted. The universe told me so. No arguing.

I guess I have no authority over the universe then... :D

But seriously, I'm not as intuitive with chart interpretations as some of the others here; although I can usually identify different aspects and configurations, I have trouble discerning what they mean.

Anyway, I am very determined to get to the bottom of this yod bussiness...one should never underestimate that legendary Aries energy coupled with an insatiably curious Aquarian mind 8)

Aquarian Maverick

P.S. I am intrigued by your sesquiquadrate aspects from Uranus and your Ascendent to the Moon, both connected to each other by a square...maybe you can help me research to determine if this is an obscure type of yod?

[sita]

So this is not a yod with pluto and neptune that is kicking the **** out of my venus? Thought I had the answer as to why I feel so alternatingly destroyed and destructive in love.

But you think there's a yod-like focus toward my moon and jupiter conjunction in the fifth? Hmmm. Focusing on that 5th house.... is that the where all my latent creative talents are dwindling at the expense of uncontrollable emotionalism and overwhelming partnerships?
I looked around the net, but everyone seems to write that a yod is between a sextile not a square. So I don't know. Today I can't figure a darned thing out.

Sita

[Arian Maverick]

So this is not a yod with pluto and neptune that is kicking the **** out of my venus? Thought I had the answer as to why I feel so alternatingly destryed and destructive in love.

I suppose that we will have to analyze all aspects to Venus or maybe even Mars to determine the root of your problem...perhaps I'll create another board (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=923) so we can explore this further :wink:

Aquarian Maverick

[Summery Joy]

Wow, there has been so many replies to this tpic since my last post. I have so many things I want to say to everyone, but I don't have enough time right now so I'll just make two remarks.

Aquarian Maverick,

Thanks for posting your chart. I had visualized your yod wrong. I thought you had the stellium at the apex. The new view changes everything!

Sita,

Yeah, you have a boomerang yod. I haven't quite worked out the effect of it yet except that it makes it even harder on the planet at the apex. I have the same base by the way, Pluto sextile Neptune with Uranus right in the middle. Mine is more exact than yours because all of these planets are on degree 17, but I think yours counts as a yod too.

[Arian Maverick]

Wow, I guess yods are more popular than I originally thought...or perhaps they simply trigger something in their natives to explore astrology sites :wink:

Aquarian Maverick

[heritage]

I hope that people in the forum would give me another interpretation of my yod from what my own reading. I have jupiter 28 degrees retrograde in scorpio 2nd house, the base of the yod is 25 degrees venus in gemini (9th)and moon at 28 degrees aries(7th). The midpoint of the sextile is almost conjuncting the paleiades point which is 28 degrees taurus.

[Arian Maverick]

Welcome to the forums, Heritage! :D

It might help if you use ImageShack (http://www.imageshack.us/) to upload a picture of your natal chart here...we tend to need a visual :wink:

Aquarian Maverick

[Howl]

Ooo a Yod thread! Hope you guys don't mind me ferreting around in the history of astrologyweekly and upturning whatever I find useful (otherwise I'll keep asking questions that you've already answered, like in this excellent Yoddish discussion)

Also, hope you don't mind all the thinking out loud I'm doing to try figure out my chart. I'm hoping that if you see anything I have missed, you'll let me know :)

Soooo, here is what I think about my yod. Perhaps as an Australian, I should call it a boomerang! I only really met it today, I always thought those green dotted lines meant something insignificant. Here's a pictoral representation, if anybody would like a peek

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/5222/yod5kh.th.gif (http://img130.imageshack.us/my.php?image=yod5kh.gif)

I have Saturn in Libra (3H) sextile Mercury in Saggie (6H)

To me, this means (in summary) structured, balanced thought and expression, and a mind preoccupied with how I can be of service in the 'big picture' ie - international/societal

Both planets are inconjunct Chiron in taurus (10H)
To me, this obviously has something to do with healing and teaching as part of my public 'role' in life. Taurus may indicate something associated with abundance, wealth, value, or even the body.

So I feel like my boomerang has the following dynamic: using the strengths that I earn in thought/expression combined with mental focus on how to serve in the broad, societal sense-------> I could aim these towards some kind of teaching/healing role

I'm going to heal something or other ;) Not sure exactly what that taurus chiron is on about yet.

One question. Can a non-personal planet (ie-asteroid) be the apex of a yod?

[wilsontc]

Howl,

A boomerang is a Yod with an opposition to the focal planet or point. If you had a planet or point opposite your Chiron, you would have a boomerang. Example here:
http://www.lunarliving.org/astrology/yod_boomerang.shtml

Boomeranging,

Tim

[Howl]

Cheers, that would be an example of something obvious that I'd missed ;)

[Summery Joy]

Howl,

This is a really cool opportunity. I've never seen a yod with a Chiron at the appex. I still cannot work very well with Chiron, so I'll be asking a lot of questions if you don't mind.

Here's the first question. Do you feel generally "hurt" by issues stemming from relating to other people on day-to-day basis, which affects how you try to present yourself????

[Summery Joy]

Howl,

This is a really cool opportunity. I've never seen a yod with a Chiron at the appex. I still cannot work very well with Chiron, so I'll be asking a lot of questions if you don't mind.

Here's the first question. Do you feel generally "hurt" by issues stemming from relating to other people on day-to-day basis, which affects how you try to present yourself????

Funny thing. I've recently discovered that my Yod has both the Moon and Chiron on the apex, not just the Moon.

!!!

[Howl]

Oh, hello there! Somehow I previously missed your post :o . So you also have a Chiron apex Yod. Do you have a Chiron/Moon conjunction? I have a friend with this.

As for your question: "Do you feel generally "hurt" by issues stemming from relating to other people on day-to-day basis, which affects how you try to present yourself????"

What springs to mind is: People don't know that I am shy. People don't know that I spend time being uncomfortable, holding my own hand while I "warm up" to situations. People don't seem to know that I hate harsh words, and that I can feel alienated when they seem closer to eachother than to me, leaving no room for me to be included. These are all things that hardly anyone would ever recognise in me. No one believes me when I say that I am shy :). I don't want to be shy. I have always thought this dynamic related to being a Saggie Sun - Gemini Moon with a Cancer ascendant (My asc. at odds with my Sun/Moon). But it all came to mind in answer to your question.

I wore a brace for scoliosis while I was in high school. It was like a body corset made out of plastic. I decided that if I could present bravely, no one could make it harder for me than it already was. Being fine as a defence for not feeling fine. That is similar to what I am describing above. I don't want to look vulnerable, because looking vulnerable makes you vulnerable.

That sounds like a Saturn - Chiron - Sun/Mercury yod, doesn't it?? Or just a Cancer ascendant :rolleyes:

What are the other two planets to your yod?

[Summery Joy]

Wow, Howl. I hope you don't go mad when you read then, but you really don't come across as shy. However, it could be that we have a relationship that is mainly a virtual one; maybe that's why.

I have both Chiron and the Moon in Taurus, the former at degree 13-14 while the latter is at 22-23. It's only a conjunction if you use an orb as wide as 9 degrees. However, I do have Pluto at Libra 17-18, Uranus at Scorpio 17-18, and Neptune Rx at Sagittarius 17-18. This is an exact base of a yod. For the apex to be exact, it'll have to fall in Taurus 17-18. Chiron and the Moon are both within 5 degrees of that point, only on different sides of it. So, while each of them is close enough to form its own yod, not everyone would consider them to be in conjunction.

I can tell you, though, that those two yods have definitely brought the energies of those two planets together. I mean, they *are* in the same sign and house. After I've discovered the Chiron yod, it became clear to me that the pain as I was attributing to the placement of the Moon was partly caused by Chiron.

When I look at my yods and my 12th house in general, I consider Chiron and the Moon as one unit. What makes that easy to do is that all the elements of the yod are one way or another related to love and close relationships. I mean we have the Moon and Chiron (both are key relationship players) and Pluto and Neptune in the 5th and 7th houses respectively. It easy for me to identify the yods' neurotic energies and figure out the appropriate methods to reconcile the conflicts there between.

Enough about me, let's talk about your yod. What you have described does show a lot of Chiron influence, but I gotta ask if Capricorn, Virgo, the 6th house and its ruler are emphasized in your natal chart.

You said that appearing vulnerable makes you vulnerable. I strongly disagree. If one is vulnerable, they are so whether it shows or not. The more accurate way of putting it is that appearing vulnerable makes the chances of getting hurt are higher than when vulnerability is hidden. You know what, that's a risk we gotta take. No pain, no gain; no guts, no glory. If we open up our hearts, we allow in both enemies and allies. If we don't show that part of ourselves, we reduce the odds of new pain, but we also guarantee no close loved one to help us walk through the rain. It's like settling for mediocre relationships to avoid the rollercoaster ride most commonly known as life.

I'm not saying that this is what is happening to you. I'm just talking about that particular fear of exposure in general. And while I cannot pretend to be able to provide advice that may help you deal with whatever level you're dealing with in that problem that, I know that we can identify astrological influences that cause/stress it in your personality dynamic and find placements through which you can reconcile your inner conflicts. That is; if you'd like an input on it of course.

Let me know,

Nora

[Howl]

Nora, I'd love your input. I feel very spoiled to have your undivided attention :)

Before we start about me, I'd just like to say that my friend with the Chiron-Moon conjunction has it in Taurus as well. Hers is in the 4H, and has a 2 degree orb. The rest of her chart is practically all Aquarius :D so it takes a while to see the wounded healer there in her 4H conjunct Taurean Moon.

Ok, my Yod. I was blending things together when I wrote - much from the past which doesn't apply so strongly now, but it's still built into me. I don't come across as shy because: I am chock full of yang energies, have Venus in the 7H, a Sagittarian Sun/Mercury conjunction (plenty talking), and my instinctive reaction to social situations is, again, talking (gemini moon in the 11H). It's fine by me not to seem shy ;)

Here's a copy of my chart in which the Yod shows:

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/4575/yodchartyd3.th.gif (http://img166.imageshack.us/my.php?image=yodchartyd3.gif)

Shyness is revealed! All bar two of my planets are below the horizon, I have a Cancer ascendant, and a few other "shyness" placements, like a number of planets close to the IC. Sooo. In short, if there were to be an astrologyweekly party (What an excellent idea...It could be in Romania!) I would help myself to feel comfortable by first finding one or two people I could talk to, intimately. My personality would warm up from there. Who knows, if the setting and the people are right for me, I might even end up dancing on tabletops by midnight. But I certainly don't make that kind of entrance :p

In high school or younger no one would have had trouble identifying me as shy, even without the body brace. I was very close to my selected little group of friends, but found the entire experience beyond this highly uncomfortable.

"Appearing vulnerable makes you vulnerable". This is an idea that came from highschool, where I was going to wear people's **** about having a body brace regardless (highschool is a strange environment, unmatched in my experience). So, I decided that I would counter hearing people talking about how weird it was that I had a plastic body by talking to anyone I could, when the opportunity presented, about what this brace was and why I wore it. I didn't WANT to take off my brace in the changerooms and have to explain what the hell it was. I didn't WANT to be in the changeroom at all!! My choice was hide in the corner and hope that few people looked, or take it off in the middle of the changeroom where anyone can see, and talk to anyone who caught my eye, or maybe even asks me about it. Doing the latter was more terrifying, but I thought it would help me more, in the long run.

I thought if I *appeared* as comfortable as possible, even though it was never going to be a comfortable situation, then people would find less to nail me for. So I would talk about it to anyone who seemed open to listening, even if I was squirming on the spot inside my plastic body cast :). My theory was only true in part. Trying to be open about it probably did help me. Some people (very few, but as you can imagine, few is enough!) still talked in disbelieving voices about me and threw a few things at me, (because it makes noises when things hit a brace). Other people were my personal saviours, and showed the compassion that was so lacking in that highschool environment.

So basically, I think I have decided never to look so uncomfortable so as to label myself "potential victim". It was SO difficult not to be one then. I found out that even appearing brave and ok isn't enough: you actually have to become so at peace with yourself and your situation that you can manage with other people's decision to still be stupid to you. In the meantime, while I had not yet reached that level :) I pretended that I had.

I don't have the same challenges now. For a start, I'm not encased in plastic for 23 hours a day, and secondly, I can more or less choose the people of my environment. However, I think I am still quite good at responding to discomfort by appearing less uncomfortable than I am feeling. Partially it is positive, because it allows me to talk to people rather than shutting them out. BUT: I have to remember not to gloss over my feelings of discomfort. Being able to talk helps, but I need to talk honestly about how I am feeling, and not give the "I'm fine - can't you see?" answer.

To answer you specific Yod questions:

Capricorn - Cappie Descendant, South Node, also Saturn is a strongly placed planet
Virgo - Virgo Mars, also on the cusp of the 3H, which is a major house for me
6H - contains my Sun, Merc, Neptune
6H ruler - Jupiter, a water singleton conjunct IC in scorpio, 4H

Hope you can wade through all of my talking ;) I would love to hear what you think

[ashakamath]

Friends, I understand the theory but lack knowledge how to apply.
I hv Aquarius ascendant 26 degrees-North node 28 degrees/jupiter 15 degrees/mars4 degrees

taurus-moon 22 degrees

Virgo-Sarurn retro 9 degrees

Sagi-Mercury 11 degrees

capricorn-sun 5 degrees/venus 21 degrees

where is node of God?

[Belgianmoonguy]

In theory i have a Yod

Neptune @ 2°12' Cap in 4, Pluto @ 2° Scorpio in 3 (Pluto is the intercepted ruler of this house) but they're quincunxing the Midheaven (0°50' Gemini)

So I doubt if this is really a Yod, cause the Midheaven ain't a planet...

What do you guys think?

[Arian Maverick]

I am always a bit hesitant to use the angles in configurations unless they are tightly conjunct a planet involved in the configuration, and even then, since my own experience with an incorrect birth time, I often doubt the accuracy of the time of birth on my birth certificate. Quincunx (inconjunct) aspects generally utilize a tight orb--two degrees or less--so even a few minutes' deviation may affect the involvement of the Ascendant/Descendent or Midheaven/Nadir axises in a yod.

I believe others have made the argument that the major angles, unlike planets, have no energy of their of own--other than that of the sign they are placed in--to contribute to a configuration. Nevertheless, the major and minor aspects the Midheaven receives may still be revealing of possible career paths ;)

Arian Maverick

[PiArSc]

Hi -- Another Yod for your consideration -Sun, Mercury, Jupiter and North Node in Pisces 19 in 4th, Neptune in Libra 19 in 11th and Pluto 18 in 9th. Yeah, that means South Node in Virgo (sigh) in 10th is that place i'm sposed to be able to work it all out? Seems strange and unusual to me and i'm still sorta stumped by how to interpret. Been looking at it for years - rofl. Need some fresh eyes on it. Pluto is also intercepted. Ty for looking. Niki :)

[Alice McDermott]

Hi all

In your study of YOD's made up of two 150 degree (quincunx) and one 60 degree aspect (12th harmonic series) please be careful not to confuse it with the septile series of aspects or the quintile series of aspects.

You can have a septile YOD made up of two 154 degree 17 minute aspects (biseptile) and one 51 degree 25 minute aspect (septile). These are from the 7th harmonic series. Septiles give the ability to understand other realities, so this YOD should work with a strong focus in that area through the focal planet.

You can also have a quintile YOD made up of two 144 degree aspects (biquintile) and one 72 degree aspect (quintile). This is derived from the 5th harmonic series. Quintiles give the ability to use creative or destructive power so the focal planet for this YOD will give considerable power.

These patterns all have an entirely different focus. I would suggest an outside orb of 2 degrees for any of these YODs so you are not mixing them up.

As far as I can ascertain, these YODS don't mix and match, so you can't have a YOD made up of one planet in a quincunx and another in a triseptile to the focal planet or one planet in a quincunx and another in a biquintle to the focal planet. If you do it is not a YOD, but a mixture of two different harmonics.

Alice

[Howl]

Wasn't sure where to post this, as it's more of an observation/realisation that I wanted to share than a question :) My Yod is making dramatic patterns in the sky of my chart! I just took a moment to visualise the combination of outer transits I am experiencing, and I have some kind of non-symmetrical fire/air Yod/pentacle, with chiron at the earth apex. Here's what it looks like:

Natal Yod:

Sun/Mercury 18' Sagittarius
Saturn 19' Libra
Chiron 19' Taurus

Plus Transits:

Neptune 19' Aquarius
Saturn 22' Leo (retrograde)
Jupiter 13' Sagittarius (direct)

This gives what has been called a "cradle" pattern at the bottom of my chart in fire/air signs, with natal Saturn and natal Sun/Merc (Jupiter is joining them) as the two "base" points. Transiting Saturn and Neptune provide the opposition, and simultaneously trine/sextile both of the natal base points. It looks like this:


http://www.lunarliving.org/astrology/images/cradle1.gif

And now, imagine this picture with a Yod springing from the two base points, which (as well as two quincunxes) creates a T square to the two opposing planets of the cradle. THAT is what I have in transit right now. A wonky Yod pentacle, and it is moving into tighter orb! I am impressed :D

I will attach my natal chart with current transits in case anybody would like to look, but I actually find it easier to visualise using the above picture :)

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/2479/achartj36file5v4xwuu108zv1.th.gif (http://img201.imageshack.us/my.php?image=achartj36file5v4xwuu108zv1.gif)

[Belgianmoonguy]

I am always a bit hesitant to use the angles in configurations unless they are tightly conjunct a planet involved in the configuration, and even then, since my own experience with an incorrect birth time, I often doubt the accuracy of the time of birth on my birth certificate. Quincunx (inconjunct) aspects generally utilize a tight orb--two degrees or less--so even a few minutes' deviation may affect the involvement of the Ascendant/Descendent or Midheaven/Nadir axises in a yod.

I believe others have made the argument that the major angles, unlike planets, have no energy of their of own--other than that of the sign they are placed in--to contribute to a configuration. Nevertheless, the major and minor aspects the Midheaven receives may still be revealing of possible career paths ;)

Arian Maverick

I've had my Birth Time rectified... And it was only 12 seconds off... So it's 11 : 30 : 12am, but can you trust rectification...

Yeah Yods
know someone who has a double one
Rising @ 2°36' Leo
Quincunx Neptune @ 3°28' Capricorn (in 6)
Neptune Quincunx Mars @ 2° 6' Gemini (intercepted in 11)
Mars Quincunx Pluto @ 3°12' Scorpio (in 4, Pluto as co ruler 4 and ruler 5)
Pluto Quincunx Venus @ 6°22' Aries (this orb is may be a bit off, as it's > 3°)

[Drew]

I guess Im resurecting this thread. I have a yod and was wondering if anyone could tell me anything about it
http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?cid=grafilejsEEG3-u1152812003〈=e&gm=a1&nhor=432585&nho2=860352&btyp=2&mth=gw&sday=20&smon=4&syr=2007&hsy=0&zod=&orbp=&rs=0&ast= (http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?cid=grafilejsEEG3-u1152812003&lang=e&gm=a1&nhor=432585&nho2=860352&btyp=2&mth=gw&sday=20&smon=4&syr=2007&hsy=0&zod=&orbp=&rs=0&ast=)

username: lilygotsilly@gmail.com
password: teaser

What's the difference between the point being at the bottom of the chart or the top of the chart?

Everything comes off of my saturn --- groups of 3 (7th house, 8th house , and 10th house) -- very organized centering around the yod in a way - with problems from familial relationships making future relationships a challenge. My relationships have always held me back in my "public endeavors", but I've recently met someone who seems to "release me" and give me a sense of finally fufilling my destiny , which I've felt since I was very young.

Intense, I know, but it seems to be in my chart. I just don't quite understand my nod.

Would appreciate any insight.
thanks

[Arian Maverick]

Drew,

I'm not seeing the second quincunx aspect needed to complete a yod configuration in the chart you provided, unless you are using a wide five-degree orb for a Pluto-Saturn quincunx...

Arian Maverick

[Drew]

Its actually saturn 12 and venus 13 and mars 12 degrees

[Drew]

Can anyone give me any info on this type of yod?

[Soul Friend]

Btw, do you people think that there is a relationship between yod and iodine ?!? Iodine is a chemical element required for the well functioning of the thyroid gland, for the secretion of thyroidian hormones. Lack of iodine in diet during early infancy leads to cretinism.

Positive memory eludes me at the moment but Edgar Cayce and others have linked the 7 ancient planets with major glands. Too, iodine being from the sea might as everyone would guess be linked to Neptune. I know my post is probably outdated as a newbie but perhaps my other resources might include something. I'll try to revisit later if possible for my memory.:)

[Soul Friend]

If there is to be a house "exaltation" of the planets, the traditional astrology term to be used is "joy". The astrological tradition considers that Mercury has its joy in the 1st house, the Moon in the 3rd house, Venus in the 5th house, Mars in the 6th house, the Sun in the 9th house, Jupiter in the 11th house and Saturn in the 12th house.

Hi Radu, I love old info. My Leo Mercury is retrograde in the 1st and I've always felt blessed that it helps me hold my tongue in the heat of a moment and also think before I speak. Would you be able to site your source either by published work or teacher or perhaps even an online source? Thanks for your time. :)

[Soul Friend]

Sita

Ps: sorehearted, you can add another native to that Saturn in the Seventh House concept you are building... I have that placement and I am totally unstable in relationships and don't have the slighest idea about what my destiny is in love. It could be really really good, but it could be just as equally tragic. I blame Uranus.

THis is both to Sita and Soregearted,

The house placement of Saturn is known by some to create a delay in the affairs of that house so begin to look at any Saturn house and consider what might be delayed and expect that after the 1st return things might begin to move forward. Maybe it's building a crystallized vision of the foundational ideals of that area of life. I wish I could recall where I learned of the delay for those who want to know more. Perhaps a simple reference to Francis Sakoan (sp?)? :o Any veterans have any bells ringing?

[Soul Friend]

http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/4245/sitaraallaspects9jk.png (http://imageshack.us)

Aquarian Maverick

P.S. I see from this updated chart that you have some interesting Quintile, Biquintile, and sesquiquadrate aspects...I am seeing something here which lightly resembles a yod pointing to your moon. Is anyone here familiar with any different types besides the sextile yod?

The sesquiquadrates from both Uranus and the Ascendant to the Moon-Jupiter conjunction are themselves in square (U-square-Asc) which makes a larger aspect pattern I just discovered this past year of obscure research called either an Arrowhead or Thor's Hammer. It denotes an ability to survive difficulty on both feet so to say like Sarah Ferguson, the Duchess of York. Mythology of Thor whose hammer returned to him after sending it to do its work reflects the understanding alluded to in this name. Check it out online. :)

[Soul Friend]

So this is not a yod with pluto and neptune that is kicking the **** out of my venus? Thought I had the answer as to why I feel so alternatingly destroyed and destructive in love.

But you think there's a yod-like focus toward my moon and jupiter conjunction in the fifth? Hmmm. Focusing on that 5th house.... is that the where all my latent creative talents are dwindling at the expense of uncontrollable emotionalism and overwhelming partnerships?
I looked around the net, but everyone seems to write that a yod is between a sextile not a square. So I don't know. Today I can't figure a darned thing out.

Sita

Hey Sita,

Yep, I'm more convinced then before. Look into Thor's Hammer combining one square and each planet in the square sesquiquadrate a third forming a type of triangle. The energy of the square from your broad minded individualistic Uranus to your sense of personality in the Ascendant is square sending all the tension into your 5th H Moon-Jupiter conjunction. Perhaps establishing a creative outlet to release all this tension and drive to have things "just so" in your life should be established before seeking romance to help structure an outlet for the stress of the square. Then its blessings will bring you to find romance and perhaps children if desired as you integrate the Moon-Jupiter conj. :o Just a thought.

[Neptune Rising]

Thank you Sorehearted for making a yod easy to understand!

I'm wondering how yods in composite play out.

In a composite I have with my current relationship, there is one yod, Neptune/Scorpio24 sextile Pluto/Virgo22, yod to Sun/Aries 24/ Mercury/Aries22.... and another yod - Jupiter/Aquarius24 sextile Sun/Mercury/Aries, yod to Pluto/Virgo, blimey!!

Hmmm, before I even saw these yods, it felt karmic, like this is no ordinary meeting of two people. Maybe the yods will help me figure out what is going on.

Neptune

[cooloften]

My whole natal chart is built around the same yod as yours, with the moon conjunct midheaven in Taurus. Any thoughts?

P.S. The moon is conjunct the evil star Algol for me as well as for you. My interpretation is that it means you tend to lose your head, not literally, but more like Mr. Bean.

[13Moons]

Soul Friend, Thanks! :p :p :p

It's Sita as 13Moons. I accidentally stumbled upon this post and was quite surprised to see my chart in discussion again. Wow! Neat. I had lost this thread.

I really needed this new info as this configuration has just simply befuddled my mind. I had been psychologically stalled in etherspace, just stunned really and waiting for some sort of answer on this matter to magically appear from the Universe, because my mind just hasn't been able to get a handle on what the root of the issue has been for me in relationships. It just had me entirely perplexed and I was starting to give up. I just couldn't understand why destructive feelings were consistently gripping me in my intimate relationships.

But now I see that those feelings occurred because I just could not seem to create a creative outlet for these energies... all that uranian energy had me so crazy and blinded and just about manic with intensity that I couldn't even focus. It was like living inside an energy waterfall... all the time.

I seem to have lived through my 7H Saturn return in Leo and am at a very new and somewhat bewildering place spiritually. I just entered [another] new relationship but this one feels different than the others. I feel peace, my heart feels like it's healing, and I feel like I did when I was a kid. Hard to explain, but it's like this one is finally meant for ME. He is the nicest guy I have ever met and doesn't have the usual Plutonic qualities like most of my other partners.

I am surprised that I am still standing and functioning after all I went through this past year (had a well activated pluto opposition moon transit, as well as that Saturn return.) But I lived through it like a goddess and am now about to step out into the life that I really want to create for myself. It seems laid out for me now, and I do trust the course of my life, whereas before the transit, I didn't trust life (and with good reason, because I must have known what was coming!!!!) It was rough, to say the least.

Beacuse of my past history of having terminated so many relationships, I do have quite a bit of anxiety about how this new but hopeful reationship will pan out for us. The relationship defintely feels "sanctioned" by a higher power, so I have a hunch that things are going to be different this time and the union may, indeed, last. Lots of creativity and having children and creating an ecologically sustainable lifestyle are on our agenda, and it is my hope that this will be what I need to use the enery right and prevent its destructive release like the times before.

Here is a bit more on this obscure angle pointing to my 5H gemini moon/jupiter conjunction that I wanted to share. I'm glad to see it laid out so descriptly, because I spent the past few years being extremely perplexed by this configuration: THE QUADRIFORM/ARROWHEAD/THOR'S HAMMER/GOD'S FIST.

Thanks for your help,
Sita



:38: http://www.evolvingdoor.ca/glossary/glossary_pq.htm


This is an aspect configuration is known by several different names: Quadriform, Arrowhead, Thor's Hammer or God's Fist.

It consists of two planets in square aspect (90 degrees) and both in an octile or sesqui-quadrate aspect (135 degrees) to a third planet. The energy of this aspect pattern is a little like a T-square, since it has stressful, dynamic energy. However, the octile aspects (based on dividing the circle into 8 pieces) tend to be a little more complex than the square or opposition (based on dividing the circle into 4 pieces).
Some astrologers see the energy originating in the tension of the two square planets, which finds an outlet through the third (apex) planet. This means the apex planet must find a creative way to resolve the conflict of the square, or else it could vent that tension destructively. This perspective reflects the image of an Arrowhead.

Other astrologers see the energy flow originating in the apex planet, which then must find a way to wield the power and dynamic stress of the square planets. It's a little like holding a live grenade - what do you do with it?? You need to find a way to use it constructively and creatively, or the energy can become destructive. This image is like a Hammerhead or God's Fist.
By cultivating support for the energy of the apex planet, it is possible to give it strength to work constructively and creatively with the square planets.

Pronounced: QUAD-rih-form. See also: Aspect configuration, T-square, aspect, square, octile.

[Soul Friend]

Hello Sita,

I'm so glad this was able to help you. I really think more astrologers can find more clarity in the research of complex aspect patterns. Discovering busy patterns like this often bring a huge "aha" to natives which can then bring their unconscious style of thinking into conscious awareness which then enables the choice of modifying behavior. I'm not saying we change who we are but we learn to work with who we are and how we think by taking preemptive action. This type of process that directs planetary energy already strengthened to have positive outlets so negative manifestations can be avoided. This is frequently the type of guidance I find studying aspect patterns. They can be quite helpful. Take Care & Be Blessed!!!

Ciao!

~Soul Friend
~~~Rick

[Soul Friend]

BTW Sita,

Thanks for the website info. So many neglect to share them when listing info. After getting my comp fixed I had lost that link and it's always nice when a kindness like taking the time to share info with someone is returned to be such a blessing. Thanks again.

Ciao!

[Yennefer]

Hi all,
I am new to this forum and find it extremely helpful and full of brilliant insights:-) Thank you:-)

I also have quite a few Yods in my natal chart and still try to get into it to really understand their energy. I have found these:

Lilith in Sag conj ASC - Venus in Aquarius in 2nd house - North Node in Cancer in 7th
Saturn in Libra in 9th(but conj MC) - Lilith in Sag conj ASC - Chiron in Taurus in 5th
Mercury in Pisces in 3rd - Chiron in Taurus in 5th - Saturn in Libra in 9th (conj MC)
Chiron in Taurus in 5th - North Node in Cancer in 7th -Lilith in Sag conj ASC

- so they are actually interconnected which confuses me a lot and I am not able to distinguish between them and their effect!

Could anyone help please? Any thoughts welcome, thanks:-)

I was born 27th March 1982 at 00:55, location - Teschen, Czech Republic.

[Arian Maverick]

Some of the yod configurations you mentioned include astrological "points" but not actual physical bodies that have an energy presence of their own to contribute--for example, Lilith (if you are referring to BML and not the asteroid Lilith) and the North Node, which is one of two points directly opposte each other in which the Moon's orbit intercepts that of the Earth's. I may not have quoted these definitions perfectly from an astrological encyclopedia, but it has been a general consensus in the community--at least that last time that it was brought up for discussion, which I will admit was a while ago--that non-physical bodies, although able to receive the energy from physical planets, cannot contribute energy of their own to a configuration.

Therefore, although the Ascendant (another "point)/Lilith may receive a quincunx aspect from Chiron and a sextile aspect from Saturn, I personally woulud not consider it a yod. However, I am by no means a professional astrologer, and there may be others here who disagree with me...

Arian Maverick

[starlink]

Greetings to all Yoddies! There is so much to read and learn in this Forum, that this thread only came to my attention today! And the most amazing thing is, that it was started by Soreheart who seems to have an almost identical YOD as I have and the same experiences going with it!(Same houses, different planets though, but the houses give the experience fields) My Apex planet is also the Moon in the 12th in Scorpio and it inconjuncts Mars in Aries in the 5th and Uranus in Gemini in the 7th. It is all about relationships and suffering (emotionally)through relationships, but also having super times in the same relationships (maybe when the energies change due to transits?). I also sometimes feel like a counselor in relationships and have helped lots of people with problems in their marriage. I also feel that this is my field of expertise. It is all exactly as she describes! I always believed and have been interested in the Yod and the inconjunct aspect by itself, especially because it relates to the 6th and the 8th houses (maybe because my Sun is in 6 and my Asc. is Scorpio?). I actually THINK I have a Boomerang because Apex Moon opposes my Sun. I have Mars at 18°.08, Uranus at 19°42 and the Sun at 14°08 lying in between them. Midpoint is at 18°55, Moon opposing Midpoint and Sun is at 17°26.
And I also feel sort of isolated or different from other people, strongly. But I guess being an Astrologer makes you always sort of standing out in a crowd. People are always very intrigued as soon as they hear I do Astrology.
A clairvoyant once told me:"you dont have to go towards other people, they will come to you" and this was before I even did anything astrological! I did not have a clue what she was talking about at the time.

Interesting I found Sophie's remark about the sesquiquadrate yods and other aspects forming yods. That is indeed something to take in account and I had not thought about previously. I do always take a 2° orb, except for the Moon a bit more. Very good thread and an excellent introduction by Nora! I am impressed.

[undertoad]

Hi

I'm intrigued by all the perceptive posts on this topic, so I thought I'd post my thoughts, hope people find something helpful in them, and look forward to feedback.

Seems to me that the Yod is something you have to try to deal with - and I'm especially encouraged by someone's suggestion (somewhere) that this factor doesn't become conscious (if at all) until later in life. I'm 36, and it seems to me that my Yod has recently raised itself beyond green dotted lines on an Astrodienst drawing to become something I see acting. I realise it's working on me, but I'm not sure how to attack it/resolve it. Attack is my prime MO - not attack on people, but attack on problems: as an almost too self-contained Scorpio rising (alliance of Scorpio mercilessness with Gemini plotting of paths) I believe I can attack and conquer anything with my single-minded determination, and I've proved this many times in action.

(Incidentally, I think that Beowulf is the archetypal story for Scorpios: your man Beowulf dives down into this slippery, wet, lightless reality and grapples with the monster Grendel: in that environment it must have been unclear what flailing piece of solid was Grendel - hack at it! and what was Beowulf - don't chop here!
He wins that one, but then has to go under AGAIN to deal with Grendel's mother - who's twice as big and twice as mean as her son, and since hearing her son is mincemeat is highly P***ED, in the American sense.
I saw this happening with a guy I like a lot, who unexpectedly - but not to a Scorpio - hit out at his wife, who's also a friend of mine. He was completely ashamed and regretful, and they've sorted it out, which I'm glad about - but I knew at the time where it had come from.)

However, this attacking mentality does mean I'll always survive (I believe I'd be one who'd cope much better than most with the nuclear wasteland I remember from apocalyptic 80s films), but we don't live in such an environment where survival counts as victory; and victory doesn't really deliver when it's restricted to private battles with your own Grendel.

In this respect I think what some of you have said about the vague, ungraspable nature of the inconjunctions (aka quincunces) makes perfect sense. You resolve it, and then you just have to resolve it again. And again. And again. It's not one of those blocking factors in your life that goes through a life-cycle of lying unknown, coming to prominence, becoming critical, causing you a lot of pain, and then being resolved, with a great cathartic realisation of victory and/or loss. I believe that my Yoddishness consists in this: in never passing definite milestones, where a great emotional upset marks the progress from one state to another, but in feeling that I'm just going round in circles - from small circles as an infant to larger circles as an adolescent to even larger circles as an adult. I wonder whether this is the essence of the Yod, as a closed system? Attack, will and determination will not resolve it - there will be no passage from "here" to "there" that you can mark as a progress on your life's story.

My Yod-moment came about a week ago, when I finally had time over the Christmas break to sort out the boxes of stuff sitting in my flat (I've moved a lot in my life, over 3 continents). One result of this sorting was a pile 2ft high (60cm for metricists!) of started-but-unfinished jazz tunes/compositions/poems/performance pieces. And since performance as an artist is my vocation, this hit me. And it struck me that if I went back to earlier times (I dunno? 1987, 1994, 2000, 2003?) when I sorted through my stuff, I'd have found exactly the same - enormous material piled up which had never come to life, or been resolved.

Of course other people in the same business as me will reassure me - what you see performed by a musician or performer is always the tip of the iceberg: most performers have stacks of stuff they put heart and soul into that didn't make the grade, and that's OK. But reading all your thoughts on Yods, something strikes me and makes me think that this pile of stuff that never went out there and found its course, is very Yoddish. A pile of papers covered in writing is my form of it - for others it may take a different form.

I'm no expert astrologer, but it seems to me that many astrological tensions are treated (rightly) as amenable to learning, reconcilable by experience: difficult aspects can plague you, but are resolvable as you live and keep on trying and eventually find a solution. That's a part of a not-just-astrological philosophy: that your life is a process of taking what you were thrown into the world with, and turning the lead in it into gold. It's a linear process, an idea of irreversible progress from ignorance and inexperience to knowledge and experience.

Yods seem different, to me at least. Cyclical. Irresolvable. Perhaps this accounts for the relative silence about them in astrological circles? Because it seems to me that a Yod is the aspect of:

a) Despair. You feel that you're covering ground again and again, and never get the wonderful catharsis of "bad problem, I dealt with it, it cost a lost, now it's gone, move onto something else - let the world regain its lovely colour, even if that leads me onto another problem". But this despair gains twice its sting from the notion (which we all cling to, who wouldn't?) that problems are single monsters to be slain and then left behind you on the battlefield, definitely dead, rather than Hydras which simply grow more heads the more you attack them. Sure, some problems really can be dealt with by fighting them head-on, over a long time sometimes, and can be put to rest in a final manner: and anyone who's dealt with such a problem like that should take full credit for it. But not all problems are like that.

b) The Late Developer. Or, as Thomas Pynchon called his collection of early writings, the "Slow Learner". Pretty early on I realised, as a piano-player, that the people who inspired me were all very old: Vladimir Horowitz, who had more fire in his playing at 80 than a lot of young players ever will - Bill Evans, who only started playing jazz professionally in his mid-30s - Ruben Gonzalez, who not only played fantastically in Ry Cooder's film "Buena Vista Social Club", but played exactly like a fit 90-year-old: someone who's played those tunes again and again, and still hasn't figured out how they should really be played, but is still trying.
If you have a Yod and feel left behind by the pressure to Be Wonderful Now, Be As Good As Or Better Than Others Of Your Age, remember Nietzsche's scathing comments about the new (in his time) Prussian education system: that it had the supreme arrogance to pretend to turn out complete human beings at the age of 21!

c) Fatedness. This can take so many forms. Of course what I write may be a manifestation of other factors in my chart; but it seems that different aspects of it include:
- absolute unshakeable faith in your own direction (positive)
- lack of compassion towards other people who aren't so
driven (negative)
- acceptance of what fate deals you, when you've fought tooth and nail
for what you (as opposed to fate) wants.
- indolent acceptance of what you're dealt, WITHOUT fighting tooth and
nail for what you want: because your "fate" will deal with everything.
- Resilience in accepting that life can be very hard because you, for
reasons you can't quite explain, made it that way. So, responsibility for
your own past actions.
- Reluctance to actually take control and make decisions that will make
life nicer for yourself! You can do this - but a Yod can induce the
illusion that you can't!

As others have pointed out about the quincunces - they really are aspects of "**** knows?", very hard to grasp and deal with. So, in my experience, a Yod energy can manifest as a feeling that your own efforts are often in vain - the world is just naturally perverse, Uranian, it will not correspond to your effort. It may give, or withhold, and your own desires, efforts, and steadfastness in effort to desire are just chaff to it. Dark gods and (for a man as I am) goddesses such as Lamashtu, Lilith and Kali embody this aspect of reality.
I don't believe that this is true - but I'm only realising now that, sometimes, what you put in does bear fruit in what you get out.

My chart is here:

(attached - rules don't allow URLs for me).

As you'll see my Yod is based on the Sun (26" Gem, 8th Hs) and Moon (marginally Taurus - 0" Taurus roundable to 1", and almost exactly on the Descendant), pointing to Jupiter sitting at 28" Scorpio (my ascendant), right on the boundary of the 1st and 2nd houses. Jupiter also has Neptune in close conjunction (though not close enough for AstroDienst's software to consider Neptune as part of the Yod) - and Saturn forms a boomerang, being right at the near midpoint of the Sun and Moon.

This part of my chart is full of marginals - both Moon, Jupiter and Neptune are "sort of A, but almost B". This corresponds to a feeling I have which I attribute to the Yod, of always almost hitting the mark, but not quite. This may be nothing to do with the Yod itself.

I'm having difficulty at the moment because, after a hard 4 years of hard work, with no luminous beauty in the world, I've been confronted, gloriously, with Venus, in the shape of a woman I've met. Venus the world showing itself to you as a place of delight, where desire is in harmony with desire and the desired. The opposite to Yod-quincunces.

I've done the hard work, put myself in a good position, got into a fantastic music school and saved the money to pay for it. And now Venus (who doesn't figure in this Yod, but who I associate with Jupiter, personally) has shown herself. But I still don't believe I can deal with Venus - I believe she must always be difficult, unattainable, contactable only through vain shouts when drunk or intoxicated in music. Quite apart from this woman herself -who I can't contact simply because I don't have her number - Venus herself has come into my life, and I don't know how to deal with her. Am I being insane, by feeling this passion and tenderness for someone after I've felt nothing for so long? Am I out of step with someone who is, after all, a flesh and blood human woman - but who just happens to be the first one I've even been attracted to for 2 years?

There's a residual bitterness, maybe because I didn't see her for so long. But Venus herself seems to be saying, this bitterness is nonsense - miraculously, she can dissolve it (this is what gods/goddesses can do!). But what about the woman who I'd love to take this joy out on?

It's ironic that it's Venus I was singing to when I wrote

the glorious beast
by rapture out of beauty
which holds its name unknown
jealously
until the names of ghost-children
gouged and stamped into thin earth
paced in a pen
scratched out daily
Stand carved in bedrock, buried
And staked at last
On lovely leaping living flesh
which I would track through any drought
with loving feed and water
from an empty dam of care.

Any ideas anyone can draw out from my chart? Many thanks. (Sorry the resolution is a bit blurred - I put it on the Shack at original resolution, but forum rules don't allow me to post the URL).

[undertoad]

Well, I've at least found some astrological account to explain my intense rant - please excuse me for the long rant when I'm only new here!

1st January was the most intense, strange turnabout in my life. The last 6 years suddenly make sense in a completely different perspective.

And what were the planets doing? Well, Mars was hanging about my Sun at the end of Gemini (one leg of my Yod), while Venus was casting her fairy-dust over the Jupiter-Neptune conjunction (29Sco - 1 Sag) that forms the apex of the Yod. I'm not surprised I'm a little freaked out! Venus and Mars switching on the juice in my Yod from opposite ends: result, a bizarre, intense, inconjunct sexual attraction that'll probably lead nowhere...

[nemessis1981]

what you guys think about this yod: moon in cancer in 7 inconj sun in aquarius in 2 and neptun in sag in 12,the last 2 planets sextile?and about this minor triangle between neptun , sun and pluto in libra in 10?

[Natasha]

DO people think yods can play out as health issues the way quincinxs' do?
I know of a person who has TWO separate yods and also a Sun Pluto square.
She has had some health problems throut her life to date - she is almost 40 now.
Two separate yods and a sun pluto would be a difficult chart for a person is seems
I imagine there is a lot of tension without release around the four quincunx
ANd Pluto Sun has trouble revealing their authentic self (Hades with his invisible helmet).
She plays the 'smiley face' but underneath may be seething and retaliates indirectly
One yod is Neptune and Uranus Pluto in sextile with the Saturn at the apex
The other is Neptune at the apex with Saturn and Mars / Sun Venus in sextile

ANd Uranus Pluto are Square the Mars Sun Venus conjunction
All in mutable
Sorry I cant put the chart up as I dont have her permission but if you draw the configuration you can see what I mean

[Soul Friend]

Hello Natasha,

Because combining aspects to find configurations doesn't make the aspects lose their essence, they must be incorporated into the larger picture
so the answer to your stated question you already know in your mind.


I've been wondering if when a planetary energy is ignored it might seek expression in our health so as not to be ignored as a way to somehow bring our attention back to a necessity for our growth. We all know when a child is ignored they often seek negative attention. Maybe it is a common way of humanity that if we don't take time to notice the need to tend where we need to help life with growth, our attention might be demanded by negative expression whether the universe wants us to help ourselves to grow or another human being who could be looking to us for help or some basic need left unmet.

Just a Thought,

Soul Friend

[Arian Maverick]

I was just reading from a new astrology book I purchased earlier this week--it's not with me now, so I'll have to find the title and author--and although it didn't mention anything about yod configurations, it had a brief description of the quincunx aspect and advised astrologers to observe whether the aspect was a "sixth house" aspect or an "eighth house" aspect. I was a bit confused by this at first because the planets involved in quincunxes, like any aspect, can be located in any of the twelve houses, but then I realized that she was referring to the relationship between the signs and the houses in the natural zodiac.

Hypothetically speaking, if one's Ascendant is exactly at 0 Aries and one also has planets at exactly 0 Virgo and 0 Scorpio, a yod configuration would be formed. If the equal house system was used, the planet at 0 Virgo would be conjunct the sixth house cusp and the planet at 0 Scorpio would be conjunct the eighth house cusp.

Both planets are technically 150 degrees away from the Ascendant if you take the shortest possible route, as all aspects do, but the author asserted that there was a difference between two planets that formed a "sixth house" quincunx aspect and an "eighth house" quincunx aspects, and that even if the planets involved were not located in these houses, the underlying energies would still be present.

I have mentioned all of this because yods involve quincunx aspects, as we all know, but the aspect between the two planets that share the "sixth house" relationship may especially pertain to health matters.

The easiest way I can think of to determine the difference between these two is to look at the opposite sign of the apex planet and count backwards one sign--this is the "sixth house" planet for lack of a better term. The "eighth house" planet would be the one that is a sign ahead of the opposite sign of the apex.

So, to answer your question--yes, I believe yod configurations and quincunx aspects have a special relationship with one's health.

EDIT: I just realized after writing this post that my fused Sun-Venus-Mercury conjunction in Aries has a "sixth house" relationship to Pluto, and one of the planets in this conjunction--the Sun--actually rules my sixth house cusp. I just hope that exalted Aries Sun provides me with enough vitality that I don't succomb to some horrible Plutonian illness...

ANd Uranus Pluto are Square the Mars Sun Venus conjunction
All in mutable

Another thing I read in this same book is that mutable squares indicate karma that one is incurring in this lifetime, and therefore, the habits and patterns of behavior suggested by the squares involving mutable signs are easier to modify than those indicated by squares involving cardinal or fixed signs. The karma of cardinal signs apparently relates directly back to the past life, while the karma of fixed signs was apparently incurred throughout many lifetimes, and thus, the patterns of behavior are more difficult to change.

This may not seem like good news, but at least you and your friend may be comforted somewhat by the fact that the karmic debts indicated by her squares may be more easily repaid.

I believe certain areas of the body were indicated as well because karma can manifest through physical illness; I suppose I'll have to stop being lazy and retrieve that book! :p

Arian Maverick

[gaer]

I was just reading from a new astrology book I purchased earlier this week--it's not with me now, so I'll have to find the title and author--and although it didn't mention anything about yod configurations, it had a brief description of the quincunx aspect and advised astrologers to observe whether the aspect was a "sixth house" aspect or an "eighth house" aspect. I was a bit confused by this at first because the planets involved in quincunxes, like any aspect, can be located in any of the twelve houses, but then I realized that she was referring to the relationship between the signs and the houses in the natural zodiac.

I'm still confused. Let's consider your chart. Mars and Pluto…

If you only consider that one aspect, not the whole yod, Mars is approaching Pluto. Eventually it "caught up" and formed a conjunction, I think in late November of 1989.

Since it "closed the gap", you can consider Mars 8 signs ahead of Pluto.

In the same way, your three planets conjunct in Aries are all inners, so you can consider them 6 signs ahead of Pluto.

This works out very conveniently because Pluto, at the apex, is the slowest moving planet. I do wonder about the fact that Pluto is Rx though.

What happens if the apex is a quick moving planet, say Mercury or the Sun or Moon. And no yod is involved.

What if both planets are Rx? Or one?

It seems like there are a LOT of factors to look at here!

Gaer

[Arian Maverick]

It seems like there are a LOT of factors to look at here!

There are always a lot of factors to consider, aren't there? :p

I didn't consider the retrograde mention of the apex planet because in my mind, the chart is frozen--although life itself is never frozen, and this is expressed in the progressions of the planets.

Yet as for the natal chart itself, perhaps I oversimplified the matter by mentally turning the yod configuration counter-clockwise so that the apex planet was on the Ascendant. Now that I think through this idea more thoroughly, though, the planets do not actually move through the chart in a counterclockwise direction precisely because the signs progress in a counterclockwise direction. Yet even if I did turn the yod in the correct direction, the Aries stellium would still correspond to the sixth house and Mars would still correspond to the eighth house.

As I mentioned before, I took this idea--possibly out of context--from a brief paragraph about quincunx aspects and the relationship between planets in such a relationship. I treated the chart as a photograph and did not take into account the future motion of the planets, although perhaps I should have.

Feel free to discard or further expand upon this idea...

Arian Maverick

[Natasha]

Hello Natasha, Because combining aspects to find configurations doesn't make the aspects lose their essence, they must be incorporated into the larger picture so the answer to your stated question you already know in your mind. Soul Friend

Indeed I agree - good point
Happened to check my library and found Dynamics of Aspect Ahalysis by Bil Tierney which I bought a long time ago - well in the nineties)
Its a little more esoteric than what I now focus on with astrology but his points about the yod are excellent
He says that yods are all about being able to make adjustments especially when a fork in the road situation comes up.

He also mentioned that the point opposite the apex is a most sensitive point - ie sensitive to a fated event occuring.

In the case of my lady - she actually uses a huge amount of energy to keep her status quo even tho all the odds are against this old situation.

I guess its an interesting lesson for all of us me included. Even tho I have NO yods natally I do have some sextiles which I watch when mars or any planets past mars activate. I have noticed (like Bil Tiery mentioned) that events CAN be triggered then

[Sanura]

What would be an interpretation of a yod formed between Moon (There are 2) or sun 2nd house (Both are conjunct) sextile Pluto in 4th with Saturn Rx at the apex in the 9th house or south node (conjunct Saturn) as the apex Can the nodes be the apex of a Yod or only planets. Also can the vertex be the apex??????? (different Yod)

[Sanura]

A really good book on Yod's is "The Yod Book" by Karen Hamaker-Zondag......I haven't read it in a while but I will review it and see if I can find any good info in it. Hamaker-Zondag writes some excellent material in relation to Psycological Astrology. The Yod book also has an excellent section on unaspected planets.

[gaer]

I didn't consider the retrograde mention of the apex planet because in my mind, the chart is frozen--although life itself is never frozen, and this is expressed in the progressions of the planets.

Well, if you throw out retrograde motion for consideration, you also throw out the idea of applying and separating aspects, don't you?

I'm not being argumentative. But if you are only examining two planets, not a yod, I'm unclear about how you would determine whether a 6th or 8th house relationship exists?

For instance, using a very simple example, if Pluto is conjunct the AC and Mercury is on the 8th cusp, equal houses, if Mercury is direct, it is racing ahead and only needs to move through 6 more signs before conjuncting Pluto.

However, if Mercury is Rx, you MIGHT want to view it the other way, with Pluto approaching Mercury (for a few days perhaps), so you could argue that then the relationship is a 6th house one. I'm not saying this is so, just that it occurred to me. As you mentioned, I think, this would have some influence on progressions, since progressed Mercury would move backwards for a few years. In the case of Mars, if you place Mars at the same spot, it might move backwards for 80 years, using 1 degree per year.

I think it MIGHT be best to reserve this analysis for yods, then throw out speed. If speed of the planets it taken into effect, Rx motion too, then applying or separating aspects, I think it becomse so complicated that it might be useless.

As I mentioned before, I took this idea--possibly out of context--from a brief paragraph about quincunx aspects and the relationship between planets in such a relationship. I treated the chart as a photograph and did not take into account the future motion of the planets, although perhaps I should have.

If you come across the same information again, I'd be interested in what else is mentioned! :)

Feel free to discard or further expand upon this idea...

Maybe I did too much expanding. ;)

Gaer

[Soul Friend]

Arian Maverick,

This is fascinating stuff. I'd love to have more folks pointedly cite the source though if it's current. You've whet my appetite to discover more of this author but I didn't catch a name and at the risk of crowding myself out with yet another book, "Please, do tell." :)

I should admit though I became confused after considering the idea of a single isolated quincunx. As I see it they appear as a 6th H aspect from one planet's perspective and an 8th H aspect from the other. Is anything mentioned regarding the faster planet to determine which perspective is used? It just so happens that my only quincunxes actually connect to the 8th H so that seems to help if I were to filter them through this "type" process or at least so one might imagine.

[Arian Maverick]

The book was Astrology A Cosmic Science by Isabel M. Hickey, but I must warn you that it really didn't contain much information about quincunxes and nothing that I've seen about yods.

What I've read so far has been interesting, though :)

Arian Maverick

[Arian Maverick]

Well, if you throw out retrograde motion for consideration, you also throw out the idea of applying and separating aspects, don't you?

Yes, you would, but I never meant to bring up applying and separating aspects; I apologize if I did not explain myself clearly.

I'm determining the "sixth house" or the "eighth house" aspect exclusively by sign, and I believe this is what the book meant. I would like to type the entire section here, but I fear legal repercussions. Hopefully, these two sentences will go undetected:

"An inconjunct is on one side or the other of an opposition. If it is in the sign before the opposition it is in a 6th house relationship. If on the other side it is an eighth house relationship."

So using the Pluto-Mercury example with Pluto in Scorpio conjunct the Ascendant and Mercury in Gemini conjunct the eighth house cusp, Mercury would be in an eighth house relationship to Pluto because it is in the sign after Scorpio's opposite sign, Taurus.

I think it MIGHT be best to reserve this analysis for yods, then throw out speed. If speed of the planets it taken into effect, Rx motion too, then applying or separating aspects, I think it becomse so complicated that it might be useless.

You're right that this much easier to use for double quincunxes (yods) than a single quincunx; it is difficult to determine exactly which relationship two planets are in without the apex planet to help guide the direction.

I still find it odd that Isabel M. Hickey never mentioned yods in this description...

Arian Maverick

[gaer]

Yes, you would, but I never meant to bring up applying and separating aspects; I apologize if I did not explain myself clearly.

No problem. Let's eliminate that detail!

I'm determining the "sixth house" or the "eighth house" aspect exclusively by sign, and I believe this is what the book meant. I would like to type the entire section here, but I fear legal repercussions. Hopefully, these two sentences will go undetected:

"An inconjunct is on one side or the other of an opposition. If it is in the sign before the opposition it is in a 6th house relationship. If on the other side it is an eighth house relationship."

Suppose Saturn is in Leo and Venus is in Pisces. Counting from Saturn, Venus is 8 signs ahead, so past opposition. But counting from Venus, Saturn is 6 signs ahead, approaching an opposition.

Without considering speed, it seems to me that any inconjunct could be viewed two ways, and that's my problem. :(

Gaer

[Arian Maverick]

Suppose Saturn is in Leo and Venus is in Pisces. Counting from Saturn, Venus is 8 signs ahead, so past opposition. But counting from Venus, Saturn is 6 signs ahead, approaching an opposition.

Without considering speed, it seems to me that any inconjunct could be viewed two ways, and that's my problem.

I finally realized that the interpretation can go both ways, which is why I was surprised that yods aren't mentioned.

This is something of a large assumption, but most of the aspects described in the book are listed in the order of planets from the Sun outwards, so the author may have meant for us to look at quincunxes under the same light--no pun intended--with the faster-moving planet applying towards the slower-moving planet.

Although like you've demonstrated, the planet that is the "faster-moving" planet most of the time is not the "faster-moving" planet all of the time, especially if the inner planet is at its station or one or both of the planets are moving retrograde.

If she were still alive, I'd send her a letter asking for a more detailed explanation, but alas, she is no longer with us.

Arian Maverick

[gaer]

I finally realized that the interpretation can go both ways, which is why I was surprised that yods aren't mentioned.

This is something of a large assumption, but most of the aspects described in the book are listed in the order of planets from the Sun outwards, so the author may have meant for us to look at quincunxes under the same light--no pun intended--with the faster-moving planet applying towards the slower-moving planet.

I think that's what is going on. I don't think your assumption is large. I think it's correct.

Although like you've demonstrated, the planet that is the "faster-moving" planet most of the time is not the "faster-moving" planet all of the time, especially if the inner planet is at its station or one or both of the planets are moving retrograde.

I doubt if the author was taking all those factors into consideration. It would be terribly complicated, and in a yod, it would make it hopeless.

If she were still alive, I'd send her a letter asking for a more detailed explanation, but alas, she is no longer with us.

Maybe we can do a seance! ;)

Gaer

[mshay]

I see that this is a late start to an otherwise great posting but just wanted to see if anyone can revive this particular convo. I have been around astrology forever, with a Sadge Mom but just recently started developing more knowledge around it through some classes and some great books by my fave, Liz Greene. Anyway, I have come to the realization that I do have a Yod and it is verrry close to what Sorehearted has except my quincunxes are Pluto and Neptune with Uranus as my short midpoint, which is opposing my Sun (Taurus) in my Ninth House. I am also going through my first Saturn Return and it hasn't been very bad since I have a Virgo Rising and can understand the need to buckle down and do some dirty work. The only problem is that I have days and this week was full of them, where I just want to do a Uranus and jump ship, jump the country, get the **** outta Dodge. I am just trying to figure out what I should do. In a perfect world, I would get to do the things that I have only dreamed about and still have a secure home base but part of my dream IS to get the **** out of this country and go see the world. I have also been given to checking out psychology courses. I feel like okay, maybe I won't be able to skip town but may be able to skip town through my mind's own inner workings. Sorehearted, are you still there? And could you tell me what you have done to help yourself in this predicament? It seems that you have the exact same uranian feelings that I have, and of course, the Finger of God is pointing to my Sun, so I know I have to incorporate something that will make my individuality happy. Just not quite sure what that would be. Argghhh!!!!!!
Elle
5/10/79 1:22Pm in Sayre, PA

[Arian Maverick]

I haven't seen sorehearted around in a while, although I would be absolutely thrilled if she responded to this post and proved me wrong...

I must say, this seems likely a particularly "heavy" yod; all three trans-Saturnian planets form the base, with all of the pressure directed on your Taurus Sun.

What you are describing sounds like the possible effect of transits possibly activating your yod, but I don't believe transits could not activate something that was not already present in your natal chart.

This is an interesting dilemma because Taurus, as you know, is a fixed sign focused very much with stability and security; it is associated with the second house of one's material resources and personal values using the astrological alphabet (i.e. Taurus = Venus = second house). Although the trans-Saturnian planets do not have the traditional planetary rulerships and exaltations of the other planets--or at least, planetary rulerships and exaltations that are agreed upon and used by the vast majority of astrologers--Uranus is generally regarded to be exalted in the sign of Scorpio, which is the placement of this planet in your natal chart.

Scorpio is located in the third house of your natal chart, yet I am sorely tempted to consider it as influencing if not belonging to the force house because of its relatively close proximity to the IC--a major angle and the cusp of the fourth house. Generally, if a planet is within a five-degree orb of a house cusp--especially of a major angle--it is considered to be "in" that next house. The luminaries (i.e. the Sun and the Moon) might be allowed slightly greater orbs, but I don't believe there is any hard and fast rule to determine which house a planet is located in; it depends greatly upon the house system an astrologer prefers and his or her own beliefs. Some people have a planet at the end of a house but relate particularly well to the description of this previous house; therefore, they tend to consider this interpretation. This is all fine, but I just want to lay out different possibilities of interpretation so you can pick which one suits you best.

Hopefully, you will not be offended if I interpret Uranus as influencing the fourth house cusp; I feel that this interpretation almost perfectly describes your current drive to get out of your country. Uranus is technically outside the five-degree orb generally allowed, but please bear with me here.

So this tight Sun-Uranus opposition is the main focus--the "stability," ironically, although Uranus is often anything but a stabilizing influence--of this yod configuration, which is actually a boomerang. A boomerang is simply a yod configuration with a planet (i.e. Uranus) opposite the apex planet (i.e. the Sun). You may wish to research the general influence of boomerang configurations before you attempt to add in the influence of the individual planets that comprise the configuration.

I don't personally have a Sun apex yod in my natal chart, but I do have a Sun-Pluto quincunx aspect. Pluto in particular seems to be applying quite a bit of pressure to your Venus-Mars conjunction in Aries; these opposition aspects are not directly related to the yod configuration, but you may wish to investigate these aspects further because no planet acts in isolation; it is influenced by every other planet in contacts in the natal chart. These opposition aspects are fairly loose, so they probably won't have the power of the tight orbs of the aspects in your yod configuration, but they still may exert some influence. On the other hand, you have Neptune in Sagittarius, which forms a series of trine aspects to your Aries stellium--the tightest of which to Venus in Aries, then to Mars in Aries, and then to Mercury in Aries at the critical twenty-ninth degree.

I've gotten a bit sidetracked here with other aspects--blame my chart ruler Mars in Gemini ;)--so I'll attempt to reign my focus back upon the specific planets and aspects that comprise your yod configuration. Unforunately, I'm beginning to loose steam here, but I highly recommend that you look up the Sabain symbols of each of the planets located in your yod configuration--the symbol for 20 Taurus (Sun), 19 Scorpio (Uranus), 20 Scorpio (opposite point of apex planet), 17 Libra (Pluto), and 20 Sagittarius (Neptune). Then, you may wish to explore the individual aspects--the Sun opposite Uranus, the Sun quincunx Neptune, the Sun quincunx Pluto, and Neptune sextile Pluto, which probably isn't quite as important because it is a generational aspect that lasted for many years. Of of the quincunx aspects involved, Sun quincunx Neptune is probably more important than Sun quincunx Pluto because its orb is tighter.

Good luck, and I will try to return to this thread if I have more time during the weekend; hopefully, others will respond to this thread.

Arian Maverick

[mshay]

Hey Arian

Thanks for the fast response. I would be interested in what anyone has to say about it and you are right in a weird way. You see, I have never been one to be consumed with security and stability up until about a year ago. Saturn has hit me like a ton of bricks and although I have found this particular transit to be all work, and no play, I am completely fine with it. The only problem is that I foresee that even though I may work hard to acquire those material needs (car, house, job) to make my own ego esteem happy and to feel like I can take my place amongst supposed adults, I have a giant elephant in the form of massive flashes, days of creativity where I wish that I could just sit at my computer and write or I could go the studio and choreograph all day. It ***** because on weeks like this where Saturn is really kicking my butt, I literally wish my soul could jump out of my skin so that I could attend to my creations or else to even just go to Spain or Argentina and just breathe a new life. The place where I am at right now and I have been sitting here for a while is one that is the big crossroads. Do I let go of security and the life that I have built for the last 4 years and do it all again in the form of moving to a different country and studying dance and astrology and writing or do I continue to move in this direction? I have never felt such an intense pressure to do everything at once and I know in retrospect, I will probably laugh at myself and all of this. I have always known that security is such a black hole to get yourself into. My previous life back in my hometown was completely demolished (death of father, car accident), I moved to Cali and started over. One very good thing that I am learning about this Saturn Return is about will power. I am finally seeing that I have it all if I want but just whether I really want it or not. Power is also a very scary thing. I know I have a lot of it, just afraid to use it. The reason I have issues of using the power or self will is that I feel like when I make decisions regarding my life, something comes out of the middle of nowhere and shows me that I will not be following through on those plans that I had. My MO has quite literally become to expect the unexpected. The Uranian influence has really been rearing its ugly head into my own head these past few days. I don't know too much about astrology but figure that the yod requires taking time out and realizing where these energies are coming from and seeing if you can incorporate things that would make the quincunxes happy. The only problem is that Uranus just does not want to have any part of sitting with something and incorporating, I just want to be out like a lightning bolt and living the eccentric life that I have never lived. I wish Sorehearted would come around because that yod seems more emotional and mine seems more identity driven, ego driven. Thanks Arian Maverick! The yod will never have an answer I know that but it always helps to have more insight from others especially when we are so subjective in our own interpretations. Have a good day!

[mshay]

The Uranian influence on the 4th house was completely right on, Arian. My house was highly volatile, not secure, definitely one given to my mother, father and me all fighting with each other, they more openly (both sadges), me more subtly (taurus sun, scorp moon). Although we all loved each other immensely, our house was not normal in any way shape or form, thus my mother has also thought of us as all recurring in each other's past and future lives in various forms, brother, sister, lovers and I totally agree with her. Therefore, security has never been a feeling that I have needed because frankly I have never had it in the form that most others have it in. Mine comes from my own production of creativity. I only know I can work and be happy in producing something creative and getting **** out of my brain.

[Summery Joy]

Hello everyone,

Yes, I am still around, although not as often as I used to be.

Mshay, give me a bit of time to study your chart and I'll come back to you on your yod.

AM, it's been a long time. How are you?

[starlink]

Hello Sorehearted! How nice to "see " you again!! Hope to see more of you again in the future. I do hope all is well with you! Cheers, Starlink

[mshay]

Hey Sorehearted! Good to see you around! Sorry for the late response but I have been consumed with taking up a new job and then feeling like I have made the wrong decision once again. This week, although I keep hearing that it should be a good week, energy for the Taurus, new moon, I still am feeling just completely out of whack these days. Still trying to get myself on a path here but nothing seems to look good here. I did however, get a letter from a successful writer who said that she was willing to work with me, of course for a fee, but I am thinking that maybe an older individual who is successful in her creativity could help me not feel so down on my own efforts. I need to do something soon here, I am worried that if I don't incorporate something of the creative element, that I will die in my heart.
How do you feel these days? Everyone says good, I say bad and depressed.

[Soul Friend]

I've not read all the response to your situation yet but A.M. is a thorough responder to the astrological plights of folks here. Take whatever I say as either a confirmation if I'm repeating or another view if it's new.

Seeing your chart shows Libra on the 3rd bringing a balance to seeing all sides of an issue in thinking and communication. Within that House Uranus in Scorpio doesn't allow issues of depth to escape your notice, particularly with its proximity to the Nadir which shows the foundation of your psyche. This play of aspects including the opp. to the Sun and the 9th H involvement makes me think you should ponder the meaning of the axis of the 3rd H/ 9th H.

As for Saturn's first return it didn't occur to you to mention the House position being in the Ascendant. This makes loads of emphasis on your self-image and identity a high priority to you. I suggest you not stressing yourself to find new areas to grow but discover what's present within yourself already to bring forward as having been part of you yet undervalued.

[smilingsteph]

Wow thanks for all the interpretations here, it is helping me understand my yod.
I have purchased a few books on the subject, but they are not very helpful.
I was wondering if I could get some insight?
My yod:
Neptune sag 19d tenth house sextile Pluto in libra 16d 8th house
quincunx to Venus taurus 12d third house

Now to add to that is a boomerang, but too much for myself to look at right now....yet still important.

I have major issues with my emotions, I dont deal with them well. I want to analyze them, and categorize them into things I can digest. Emotions to me are MESSY, so I either place them aside brew over them and then do nothing about the situation, or I blow up! I can blow up a few days after the incident and then I leave people with "what in the heck is she talking about" long after they forgot the situation.
I would also have to say most of these things happen at work.

I think my yod is to blame: Pluto Venus- I get involved with those I feel sorry for, or those that I want to change...it gives me the upper hand and control within a relationship, yet I get stomped on.
Neptune Venus- harder to figure out yet, I think this one makes me even more sensitive and emotional and I take things too personal.
Adding to that is Uranus opposition venus which makes me even more emotional and yet I enjoy relationships I dont really, it is a dichotomy in my life...I can easily one day put so much energy into someone and the next day drop them instantly! I am not proud of this..

Like I said earlier most of these issues happen in my professional life.
I also experience on a daily basis where I can say "it would only happen to me" where unusual things that rarely happen, usually end up on my lap, I heard yods can do this.

[mshay]

Well said, Soul Heart. I am originally from PA too! Yahoo! Anyway, what you said in your last sentence "I suggest you're not stressing yourself to find new areas to grow but discover what's present within yourself already to bring forward as having been part of you yet undervalued."


This has been a huge issue for me. Growing up in Small town Pa didn't help either. The mentality that I must do work that does not feed my soul has been one that has slowly been dying in me the last few months. I am currently working a job that I hate and well, that has been the trend ever since I joined the work force 10 years ago. I have been trying to get myself back into African drumming/dancing classes as well as trying my hand again at writing. I realize that all of these are pretty "out-there" but also have to keep telling myself that my life is mine and noone else's, so I should enjoy it while it lasts. You're correct about the Saturn being in the First House really causing me to look at my identity in a rather scrutinizing way. I also see my penchant for being self-deprecating again. Influence in environment has not helped much, but moving to California has opened my eyes to what is possible. A rather slow death here, but I can see improvements in my awareness of this situation. Building my constitution as one astrologer put it has been what this transit is all about and the Uranus influence wants to make damned sure that it is an original one. My depth of personality makes me one that others tend to shy away from in getting into conversations, although I can usually buff it up to make it not so personal and more about the collective conscious instead of putting out their own faults or they way they perceive things. AM was extremely insightful and I am glad that others understand what I am going through. It has been deep, scary, and a definite death of sorts and an epiphany in other sorts. The words, "what a long strange trip it's been" come to mind, even though I do not appreciate the drug undertone that phrase has to it. I continue to do my soul work and hope to Yod of God that I finally see the light of my Sun sometime in this life.

[starlink]

Hello MSHAY! I have been reading over the whole thread again and as always, this Yod thing is most intriguing, more so than other configurations.

I have noticed more than once in my own life, with a Yod between Moon (Apex)-Uranus and Mars, that when triggered by transits, it will cause some sort of crisis and the crisis is usually to do with making a very important choice (like life or death kind of choice) in your life. My worst choice was choosing between myself and my husband. Do I stay in a marriage where I cannot develop myself, or do I go it alone and will have the possibility to be myself, express myself the way I want.
When there is no transit triggering your Yod, you will still feel a constant restlessness (little voice at the back of your head) inside you which is sort of leading up to that point where you will have to make the choice. That moment comes when one of the three planets will be transited. The heavier and slower the transiting planets are, the longer and more painful the choicemaking lasts. Now with Uranus, that can take a while of course.

You know that you want to do creative things. You also know that that Saturn keeps you from taking that step. You are being pulled between freedom and duty, soul satisfaction and materialism.

It ***** because on weeks like this where Saturn is really kicking my butt, I literally wish my soul could jump out of my skin so that I could attend to my creations or else to even just go to Spain or Argentina and just breathe a new life. The place where I am at right now and I have been sitting here for a while is one that is the big crossroads. Do I let go of security and the life that I have built for the last 4 years and do it all again in the form of moving to a different country and studying dance and astrology and writing or do I continue to move in this direction?

Clearer than this a Yod could not talk! Should I do this or should I do that and both involve very important needs of which one is a bit more egoistical than the other. When you choose for the creative side, guilt and fear(Saturn) come up, when you choose for stability, your soul starts crying out.

I follow the Budhistic philosophy, but am not a Budhist. It has helped me making my choice. Do remember always that your soul yearning is more important than anything material. If you stay on the 6th house Yod side (as AM explained earlier on) you will develop an illness sooner or later. If you use the 8th house one, you can transform yourself and become a healthier and happier man. (and it would still be possible for you to also find some material satisfaction).
It does require courage, but you can do it. I would.
If you are married with children this change would be risky and would need a good deal of planning, but if you are still single, just go for what you really want, because it is clear to me that it is realizing your creative potential that you really want.

I just want to be out like a lightning bolt and living the eccentric life that I have never lived.

Do it!!

Best wishes and good luck, Starlink

[mshay]

Thanks Starlink for your very kind words and the kick in the pants that one needs in crisis situations like this! I think another pain in this and you probably know what I am talking about is the Mars Energy. My Mars in Aries absolutely hates having to deal with long drawn out times of flux like this. I know yet again, that these big "life or death" decisions do need more time, I have been feeling this decision for at least a year now! It is absolutely maddening because my relationships with others falter, especially my friends and family. I don't want to have fun and I almost don't think I can allow myself to have fun because this damned decision is at the forefront of my mind. I am slowly trying to regain the creative aspects and hope to God that something comes of them because even though Saturn has been squeezing me tight with those damned rings, I know that the biggest, juiciest part of me will die if I let Saturn have its way. I also have a great friend, older who has a lot of configurations like I do, although they are 42 and they are going through that nasty Uranus transit and let me tell you, they have a crisis on their hands. Married, without children but married nonetheless and they are having this crisis because they did not let their creative side (soul) make any decisions when going through their first Saturn Return. I thankfully am not married and do not consider myself to be the kids type so I am not too worried about that but its just getting started that seems to take the most precision and pain when involved with creative careers. Something will happen, I just am not sure which creative direction to take and well that will involve getting to know each one slowly and seeing where they take me. Uranus at least likes that idea that it is getting some recognition involving the arts. There is a definite tug of war between Saturn and Uranus but I am thankful enough to know my depth of perception(thanks AM!) has allowed me to become aware of these warring factions. I sometimes wish it wasn't so black and white and maybe technically it isn't but it sure seems like it sometimes! I think the biggest compelling thing about Yod is that it is almost like it is lurking beneath the surface and you don't really realize the true nature of your feelings and emotions until you start questioning your actions and the real motives behind it. I keep having to question why I keep throwing myself into jobs that do nothing for me but pay for the bills. I keep having to reiterate the point that life is not supposed to be an uphill battle but one that you can just swim like all of the other fishes in a nice gentle stream, but only as long as you listen to your heart.

The one saying that I have come up with during this transit for myself to remember is: Sometimes doing the right thing, isn't the right thing for you.

[Soul Friend]

Well said, Soul Heart. I am originally from PA too! Yahoo! Anyway, what you said in your last sentence "I suggest you're not stressing yourself to find new areas to grow but discover what's present within yourself already to bring forward as having been part of you yet undervalued."


This has been a huge issue for me. Growing up in Small town Pa didn't help either. The mentality that I must do work that does not feed my soul has been one that has slowly been dying in me the last few months. I am currently working a job that I hate and well, that has been the trend ever since I joined the work force 10 years ago. I have been trying to get myself back into African drumming/dancing classes as well as trying my hand again at writing. I realize that all of these are pretty "out-there" but also have to keep telling myself that my life is mine and noone else's, so I should enjoy it while it lasts. You're correct about the Saturn being in the First House really causing me to look at my identity in a rather scrutinizing way. I also see my penchant for being self-deprecating again. Influence in environment has not helped much, but moving to California has opened my eyes to what is possible. A rather slow death here, but I can see improvements in my awareness of this situation. Building my constitution as one astrologer put it has been what this transit is all about and the Uranus influence wants to make damned sure that it is an original one. My depth of personality makes me one that others tend to shy away from in getting into conversations, although I can usually buff it up to make it not so personal and more about the collective conscious instead of putting out their own faults or they way they perceive things. AM was extremely insightful and I am glad that others understand what I am going through. It has been deep, scary, and a definite death of sorts and an epiphany in other sorts. The words, "what a long strange trip it's been" come to mind, even though I do not appreciate the drug undertone that phrase has to it. I continue to do my soul work and hope to Yod of God that I finally see the light of my Sun sometime in this life.
Hello Marielle,

You've got a pretty name. There's a gal here who works in a local Metaphysical shop in the area by that name too. Anyway, I'm glad I can add some clarity and help. One thing to remember is that after aspects add a 3rd planet to become a more complex aspect pattern, it's easier for an experienced Astrologer to direct your attention to benefits. Separately the quincunx energies can add strain but they can also by the Sextile add some opportunities to enjoy that find manifestation in the House of the Apex Planet which is your Taurean Sun in the 9th H. Looking at that sextile most times is overlooked as a generational influence unless your particular chart somehow emphasizes one or both of them. Pluto as a singleton of the only Air sign in Libra and Neptune in the IC of the 4th H does make the influence more personal for you in case other Astrologers might want to downplay it.

There's also another major configuration of a type of Hourglass with a minimum of 4 planets with 2 separate oppositions with semi-sextiles between them where there are also 2 inconjunctions. These all inter-connect a closed circuit of influences. It looks like this:

Sun at 19° Taurus semi-sextile Venus at 21° Aries
Venus at 21° Aries inconjunct Uranus at 18° Scorpio
Uranus at 18° Scorpio semi-sextile Pluto at 17° Libra
Pluto at 17° Libra inconjunct Sun at 19° Taurus

These four planets are further related by their oppositions:


Sun at 19° Taurus opposite Uranus at 18° Scorpio
Venus at 21° Aries opposite Pluto at 17° Libra

With these having 3 of the 4 in the 3rd H/9th H Axis and Pluto already a Singleton in an Air sign I see Communication as a big deal here. Your 3rd H cusp of Libra inspires balanced thinking and the Moon and Uranus both bring the details (3rd H concept from natural rulership by Gemini) of Depth from Scorpio to bear on these communications. Too, although Mars isn't part of these Major Configurations, don't forget it's relevance. It is conjunct Venus which Disposits all the other Planets before itself is Disposited by Mars as the Final Chart Dispositer. Personally, I find this quite uniquely and incredibly focused in a way it should never be overlooked. These energies will create experiences funneled through your Desires that can either be seeking Harmony (Venus) or move so fast as to grow from an Impulsive Pioneering Drive from Mars in the sign of its rulership.

Another thing some folks include around the time of a Saturn Return would be manifestation of more influence in Houses of an Axis that includes Intercepted Signs like the 5th and 11th where Capricorn and Cancer are located. These Houses and their Axis emphasize your Creative Goals as an Individual as they are Balanced Against your Role as a Member of a Larger Group.

This may be quite a bit to digest, but not only is a Chart to be viewed as a whole, but so should Major Configurations.

[mshay]

Hi Rick
Thanks for the response. I can't talk too long since I am going out to dinner in a nanosecond. And thanks for the compliment on the name. Funny, I used to absolutely hate it and wished it would be something like my friends, Kim, Elizabeth, Karen, Katie. But as I get older, I like it!
Okay with your input, you have definitely added more clarity. I am still just a beginning student but it puts things in easier perspective starting with yourself on your own chart and then moving onto other's charts and interpretations. You are right about the communication idea. Looking at it now, I am also considering going back to school for possibly a Master's in Psychology if I buckle down with Saturn but the way that I see it, is that I would actually be involved with something that I have been interested in for a long time. I love reading Jung, Joseph Campbell as well as the psychological astrologer's, Liz Greene and Howard Sasportas. I am also taking some courses involving writing novels again and am starting that project as well. I am really trying to incorporate everything involved here and well we shall see if I am able to make everyone happy. Me being that damned Virgo rising wants to ISFJ everyone! But I am also going to give you some more insight into my own chart that you couldn't possibly know about. You see, I had/ve a hearing problem, both with selective hearing and also just a plain hearing problem after a throat issue that didn't cleared up correctly when I was younger. Ironically while reading Greene's Development of the Personality, I learned that that those with hard Mercury/Saturn aspects usually have problems with communicating/hearing effectively. What happened then, is that I ended up realizing that I could more rely on writing to get my point across and became an afficionado of letter writing. In fact I wrote two very lengthy letters today to two of my dearest in PA. I have always had a penchant for telling stories, usually of the macabre sort and well just never thought I had it in me to see anything come to fruition. Fast forward to now, I need to do these things in order to just see for myself where it will take me. And hopefully Saturn will see the good in it especially if I am "working hard" at something I love. We yet again, shall see. But I will write more tomorrow. I was looking at your chart as well. I have always loved Leos and two of my most bestest friends in the world are Leo's. My favorite dance teacher was a Leo as well. She was also drop dead gorgeous! Exciting times to meet you Rick. I hope you continue to spend more time here as I will as well. Yet again, I am nowhere near the capacity as your brain is yet but hopefully we can banter about more issues of astrology.
Cheers! Till tomorrow!
Marielle

[starlink]

Hello Miss Marielle:)
I am glad to see that you recognized this:

Married, without children but married nonetheless and they are having this crisis because they did not let their creative side (soul) make any decisions when going through their first Saturn Return.

Indeed indeed!!


With these having 3 of the 4 in the 3rd H/9th H Axis and Pluto already a Singleton in an Air sign I see Communication as a big deal here.


Soul Friend is right!


I think the biggest compelling thing about Yod is that it is almost like it is lurking beneath the surface and you don't really realize the true nature of your feelings and emotions until you start questioning your actions and the real motives behind it.

Most people dont ever figure out what it is that's bothering them. A Yod needs perception to find out about it's meaning. That inexplicable unsatified feeling is like a mosquito zooming around your head.


I keep having to question why I keep throwing myself into jobs that do nothing for me but pay for the bills.

This is clear to me. Again, Saturn near the Ascendant, is the problem. It is known that Saturn in the 1st house can make you insecure, undermines your self-worth and therefore always choosing the safest solution, which is this payed job. It is secure, it brings money in (and probably up till now, your material safety was in a way your way of feeling secure. Not in yourself .
however.
And in Virgo it is most self-critical and fault finding. You probably are afraid of a new undertaking for the reason that you think you could fail at it and end up completely rock bottom.

If you feel the urge to jump out of it all so strongly now, then it is for a big reason. I dont know what sort of work you are doing right now, but in the worst case you can always find work in that field again if necessary.
He who does not dare, does not win! And if you dont try it, you will never know how it is, doing what you want to do, and that will bug you for the rest of your life. I always think that it is far better to know what you cannot do, then not to know what you are capable of doing.

Cheers, Starlink

[starlink]

Hi Sita and Sorehearted, about that Saturn in the 7th.

Personally I see great differences between:

Saturn in the 7th house(in any other sign but Libra)
Saturn in Libra
Saturn in Libra in the 7th house
I always find problems, fear of closeness, limitations etc. when Saturn is just in the 7th house. I also see it as an affliction, unless totally well aspected showing steadiness and a necessity for a serious (often older) partner.
But it is still not ideal. There could be great restrictions within the marriage.

But if Saturn should be in Libra in the 7th, then he is exalted there, as well as being in Libra's house and could therefore work out in a noble way, but again, I always look at the aspects and when there is a difficult aspect to Mars (representing the other relationship partner) then I still dont see this exalted Saturn as a wonderful thing.

When Saturn is in the 7th in any other sign, it depends on the sign how he will perform, as well as the aspects he makes. Saturn-Uranus aspects are notoriously difficult. You want to stay and you want to go and feel free at the same time. Lots of up and downs.

I therefore never see an easy partnership with Saturn in 7. At it's best it shows a very steady, longlasting one, but somehow not a jolly marriage full of fun and laughter. But I might be wrong and still find one:)

Cheers, Starlink

[The Bull]

"A neurotic configuration"

well, that certainly explains a lot for me.. hahah!

[mshay]

"I always think that it is far better to know what you cannot do, then not to know what you are capable of doing."

Hey Starlink
Um yeah, that is a really great way of looking at it. These last few months I have really opened my eyes as to how I view myself. Yes, in that very self critical way and it has caused me a lot of unnecessary pain and conflict. I also know that I have a tendency to not start things because I already "foresee" it being a nightmare that will have undesirable consequences. The bottom line of all of these emotions is negative and does not help if you want to make your lot better in life. So of course, I am slowly but surely opening myself up to just trying certain things. Starting with baby steps, taking courses in certain subjects that I am always thinking about, regardless that my inner critic thinks they are frivolous novelties that don't deserve a spot in my life. Well ***** it! I am liking where I am getting to here because I know that things will definitely get better. But just like Saturn Return, you have to do the work, first by beginning with awareness of where you are and where you want to be, someplace hopefully original but in your dream's eye. Very interesting stuff here. I am now not thinking that the Yod is not all problematic but just an area that deserves special attention because of the hidden feelings.
I also have never heard of the Hourglass configuration but looking at it now, it seems to make sense that all of that energy would be in my 3rd/9th house axis. I am being driven to take classes and get more education and also being driven to actually write a new constitution for myself. I think writing a constitution for oneself really sets it into motion what kind of individual you are as well as the situations and people that you will attract...mmm, very, very interesting
Okay, back to work for me!
Thanks Starlink and Soul Friend! You guys have been really great!
~Marielle

[starlink]

I am now thinking that the Yod is not all problematic but just an area that deserves special attention because of the hidden feelings.

yesseree!! and way to go! Like you wrote in the birthday thread, your Solar Return looks good !!

All the very best and yes, take it step for step.Nothing wrong about that.

Star.

[Soul Friend]

For anyone wondering by the way, the Hourglass is a version of the Mystic Rectangle so that can help folks discover more about it. I'm glad we were able to discuss one so well defined in an axis like this because it was clearly great teaching material. Too, with Pluto in the 2nd it gives you indications of a reserve of ability to transform yourself as needed so never underestimate yourself. ;)

[Moulin]

Hey sorehearted, thanks for a truly great thread! My Leo rising approves ;)

Hey AM... how are you? Hope your aries stellium is keeping you well :p

I have a yod too.

Uranus/virgo/25' in 1st sextile neptune/scorpio/25' in 3rd quincunx moon/aries/24' in 8th

quite possibly l have another one with pluto/virgo/20' in 1st sextile neptune again quincunx venus/aries/21' in 8th. I have NN and saturn at 18' aries too! So the apex of the yod seems to hit a few heavy planets!

Does it mean that my life is highly emotionally focussed please?

[twiggy]

Hi all

I have a yod too, must be quite significant as it is really the only pattern I've got in my chart. At age 39 I think I'm seeing the importance of this yod, I have until now ignored this pattern though, and have only in the last few days read up on it. If anyone wants to have a look, the natal chart is in the signature.

Cheers!

N

[smilingsteph]

My chart with yod, midpoint yod or boomerang.
I have lots of trouble with being alone, helping others and wanting to be different....big trouble with creative expression, intercepted fifth house may be to blame too?

[smilingsteph]

Geez check out my friends yod, I may have already posted it somewhere but he has FOUR yods, I cannot figure him out for nothing!

[starlink]

Hello Smiley! Yes, intercepted 5th is often a culprit with self expression. Moon rules it and is blocked by Saturn who traditionally rules your 12th and 1st house , hence also your feelings of loneliness!

If you say you have trouble with helping others, what do you mean exactly? Is it difficult for you to help others or do you get into trouble when you help others?
You can see the problems, also caused by Moon/Saturn in the 7th, but that Yod is a difficult one as well of course. The Venus/Uranus opposition causes you to keep people at bay. Venus, rules 3, conjunct Mars, ruling 2 (self worth). So the fear of commitment is due to a lack of selfworth or fear of not being treated as an equal. You are subconsciously probably asking to be treated as "different from others". It is an interesting chart, psychologically speaking. I can feel it but have difficulty expressing it in words.
I feel that you do want a good relationship with others but somehow dont think you deserve one (for whatever reason).

Cheers, Starlink

[smilingsteph]

Yes star thank you, your words are better than mine to describe it. I cannot at all sometimes!
I like helping others, however I dont like getting too close to a situation, emotionally or personally, then emotions get involved and it gets too messy. So I keep a cool distance.
I want to be different, because to me different means special and special means more attention.
Childhood stuff, I always had to fight for my parents to see me, to listen. Yet they never did.
So if being treated different then maybe more attention, then there is the dichotomy of wanting to be left alone.....
I know I dont get it either, I blame it on the sun and mercury on the IC, then Saturn then Uranus!

[starlink]

So if being treated different then maybe more attention, then there is the dichotomy of wanting to be left alone.....

Yes, because I think that once you DO get the attention, you also subconsciously refuse it because you think you dont deserve attention.
You should really try to believe that you deserve attention Smiley! You cant go on pushing people away because you will continue to push love away in your life and noone can be happy without love. Please dont let that childhood experience ruin everything for you. You can change , we all can.

Try to do some affirmations, there are a few good books on that. Tell yourself over and over again that you are a good and worthy person. Find your positive charactertraits and tell yourself:"look how well I do this and how great I am at that", filling in the positive things in you. Smile at yourself in the mirror and say: "you are great!!" (or kind, or nice, whatever). Do it everyday before leaving the house. Slowly but surely the subconscious will adjust and accept. It might take time, but you will get there.

It is also of course a matter of giving up that attention. In a way it is negative attention (like a child being very naughty and getting to hear that he or she should immediately stop behaving like that, angry words, but hey, they are looking at him!). This can be scary, because from that moment on you are not being different anymore, but you are trying to make a difference. When you are able to make a difference in whatever it is you are doing, people will also pay attention to you, but positive attention and you will feel great in the process, it will boost your self-esteem. That is after all what you really would like to get, isn't it?

I very much wish for you this will happen one day.
All the best, Starlink

[starlink]

Hello Sita, AG and Sorehearted, I have been reading a bit through the thread again and Personally, i do not think that Sita has a boomerang Yod. The Neptune /Venus aspect is 2°15' wide, so acceptable to be called a Yod. Actually it is maximum 2°. But Pluto-Venus inconjunct is way too wide: 5°19.
So there is not a Yod formed here.

However, a temporary Yod can be formed by progression, when Neptune retrogrades back to about 14°. At that time a Yod can be formed for a couple of years. But if by progression Neptune does not reach that point, it wont happen. Then it can happen through a transit like a couple of years ago when Pluto and Jupiter were still in Sagittarius and formed a Yod with Venus and natal Pluto. Would be interesting Sita, to see what happened then. (end Nov. 2000 there was a period starting with Pluto at 12° Sagittarius, exactly inconjuncting Venus up till Nov. 2001 going back and forth making that inconjunct) and Jupiter was at that same degree last time in July 2007 till end September,beginning Oct. 2007, forming another Yod with natal Pluto and Venus.

But Natally, there is no Yod in this chart and certainly no boomerang.

Maybe temporarily you can then be destructive in love, like you mentioned:

Thought I had the answer as to why I feel so alternatingly destryed and destructive in love.


Cheers, Starlink

[Kenoshamaensa]

First, I'd like to thank R4ven for pointing me here, and to Summery Joy for her lovely long entry discussion, and everyone else who's posted since. I am ... 3 years late to the party. Not sure anyone is still reading, but I found all of this very informative. Thank you! It's actually taken me a couple of days to read THROUGH it all, so I could digest it. But particularly the post below I wanted to respond to.

I must apologize in advance, because in some ways, this is a very depressing, somewhat negative post. But I wanted to be honest, and right now, that's what I'm feeling about my yod.

First, my chart is linked below my signature, for the curious.

Second, I have a yod that has ... always baffled me, undercut me, and generally given me grief. Other aspects in my chart, I have little trouble understanding how they work out in my life experience. The yod ... not so much. Hence I found Summery Joy's initial and Undertoad's later comments (et al.) particularly enlightening.

My yod is a 7th house Libra sun at the apex, with a 2nd house Aries moon sextiling a 12th house Aquarian Saturn that sits on my AC, and leads the "locomotive" pattern of my chart. I tend to read that Saturn as a mix of 1st house/12th house; it's not purely either, IME.

Now, how do I experience it? Well, that's the QUESTION, isn't it. Ha. With the sun at the apex, it's very fundamental to my self identity, but that doesn't make it easy to understand ... maybe the opposite. I think I've always more easily understood the 7th house Virgo stellum of exact Mercury-Pluto conjunction with Uranus, all sextiled Neptune in Scorpio in my 9th house. THAT, I can explain to you in the details of my own life, no problem-o!

Sun-Yod? Not so much. :-) But I'd wager to say BOTH these are the two most dominant aspect patterns in my natal chart. They are like the "visible" and the "shadow" me.

A quick detail background ... I'm a college prof, Ph.D., specialization in history, focus in religion, sexuality, and "relationships," and I write fiction that focuses on similar, "relationships" (but not genre Romance). All very Mercury-Pluto-Neptune-(Uranus).

But I think the writing is also a sort of Yoddish expression. I'd love to poll authors and see how many of us have Yods in our charts, as well as active Neptunes. I did once run the charts of a bunch of writer friends and noticed a HUGE amount of Neptune involvement with Mercury: sextiles, trines and conjunctions (some squares too, but less often oppositions). Now, I was looking (then) only at Neptune, but ... yods. I wouldn't be surprised if we have a lot of writers with yods. So often writers are MORE themselves in their fiction. We use the "mask" of words to reveal our innermost selves, but you (the reader) may never know exactly what is fiction and what is reality, and what a clever mix of the two. A good writer can EMPATHIZE and find the point of commonality to "walk a mile in another's moccasins." But that can also become a way of reconciling the confusion of the inconjunct, I think. I may have a hard time expressing my emotions (an "easy" moon-sun aspect), but I'm also not BLOCKED (like, perhaps a full-blown opposition) ... it's ... SIDEWAYS. Like an inconjunct. Like a reflection seen in a mirror: Me-notme.

Which leads me to ...

(Incidentally, I think that Beowulf is the archetypal story for Scorpios: your man Beowulf dives down into this slippery, wet, lightless reality and grapples with the monster Grendel: in that environment it must have been unclear what flailing piece of solid was Grendel - hack at it! and what was Beowulf - don't chop here! He wins that one, but then has to go under AGAIN to deal with Grendel's mother - who's twice as big and twice as mean as her son, and since hearing her son is mincemeat is highly P***ED, in the American sense. I saw this happening with a guy I like a lot, who unexpectedly - but not to a Scorpio - hit out at his wife, who's also a friend of mine. He was completely ashamed and regretful, and they've sorted it out, which I'm glad about - but I knew at the time where it had come from.)

First, OFF TOPIC but ... thanks for this great insight into Scorp rising. I have a dear friend who's a Scorp rising, with a lovely light Libra Sun and forceful Aries moon, and he often BAFFLES me with his "emotional cards held close to the chest" ... until I remember he's a Scorp rising. :-)

ANYway ...

In this respect I think what some of you have said about the vague, ungraspable nature of the inconjunctions (aka quincunces) makes perfect sense. You resolve it, and then you just have to resolve it again. And again. And again.

YES. My yodness is thinking I have a grasp on it, then realizing it STILL baffles me!

My Yod-moment came about a week ago, when I finally had time over the Christmas break to sort out the boxes of stuff sitting in my flat (I've moved a lot in my life, over 3 continents). One result of this sorting was a pile 2ft high (60cm for metricists!) of started-but-unfinished jazz tunes/compositions/poems/performance pieces. And since performance as an artist is my vocation, this hit me. And it struck me that if I went back to earlier times (I dunno? 1987, 1994, 2000, 2003?) when I sorted through my stuff, I'd have found exactly the same - enormous material piled up which had never come to life, or been resolved.

Of course other people in the same business as me will reassure me - what you see performed by a musician or performer is always the tip of the iceberg: most performers have stacks of stuff they put heart and soul into that didn't make the grade, and that's OK. But reading all your thoughts on Yods, something strikes me and makes me think that this pile of stuff that never went out there and found its course, is very Yoddish. A pile of papers covered in writing is my form of it - for others it may take a different form.

And THIS, more than anything, was what I wanted to respond to from the post.

I'm not a musician, but a fiction author. I have ... 4 novels written, which amounts to upwards of 500,000-600,000 words, total. I'm not much of a short story writer (they really are different mediums, novels and short stories), but a novelist, yes. Now, without going into detail (or posting people's names on a public board), suffice to say I have a lot of independent "testimony" (from people who don't know me from Eve and don't care) that I'm supposedly a really good writer and ... WHY AREN'T YOU PUBLISHED???!!! (God, if had just a dime for every time I'd heard that, I'd be ... not rich, but I could pay off my credit card!)

But yeah, the image of those piles of paper with music on them ... much like my piles of manuscripts that I can't get a publisher for.

Now, can I explain that? Yes, I can give you a LONG song and dance about the realities of publishing that have nothing to do with the "art" of writing -- why I keep missing the boat (timing wise) in everything from novel length (= paper cost) to what's currently "hot" on the market, etc. There are REASONS. But it doesn't change the fact.

I started writing fiction at 11. I'm now 47. In all that time, I've published professionally exactly 2 things, both (ironically) short stories. That despite winning multiple awards for writing as a teen, being editor of our lit magazine, etc., etc. And the aforementioned affirmation from a lot of people who didn't have to care, that yes, I can not only write, I'm (supposedly) *really good*.

But sell a novel professionally? Nope. I'm honestly starting to think I never will.

Now, you'd think, But wouldn't that be a MERCURY at the apex? Maybe. Except that being a WRITER IS the most fundamental way I identify myself. I'm a WRITER first, anything else second. And I've not been unsuccessful at "anything else." (Hell, I have a Ph.D. and tenured job -- not exactly a failure.) But my "fundamental" self continues to be without concrete, real-world (Saturnian) affirmation, which leads to a very deep, deep emotional depression (Moon).

a) Despair. You feel that you're covering ground again and again, and never get the wonderful catharsis of "bad problem, I dealt with it, it cost a lost, now it's gone, move onto something else - let the world regain its lovely colour, even if that leads me onto another problem". But this despair gains twice its sting from the notion (which we all cling to, who wouldn't?) that problems are single monsters to be slain and then left behind you on the battlefield, definitely dead, rather than Hydras which simply grow more heads the more you attack them.

Or even just despair born of a growing conviction that whatever the yod is blocking will be the point where you'll never succeed. So (in my own case) I could succeed at anything EXCEPT as a writer, because my Yod apex is my sun, and my most basic self identifies as a writer, so that's the one thing I'm "destined" (that "fate" element?) to be a failure at.

b) The Late Developer. Or, as Thomas Pynchon called his collection of early writings, the "Slow Learner" ... If you have a Yod and feel left behind by the pressure to Be Wonderful Now, Be As Good As Or Better Than Others Of Your Age...

I'd LOVE to think I'll just be a Late Developer, but have grown increasingly cynical, which at 47, I think I'm allowed to be, when I've been writing 30+ years with little-to-no professional success despite being told I'm (supposedly!) "really good." At what point do you conclude either the ENTIRE publishing industry is wrong and you stink OR ... people are lying to you? Hmmm. Logic might suggest the latter. Except ... well, the people telling me that didn't have any invested REASON to lie, so logic makes me wonder, "Why would they?" Maybe they're just collectively stupid about my abilities?

But there is a serious disconnect here ... inconjunct? Who's right, who's wong? Somebody has to be. Or do they? Well, ultimately, it doesn't matter who's right or wrong, unfortunately. All that matters is whether the people in power think they're right, and clearly, that means I suck. Worse, some of the people who initially supported me, recommended me to their own agents, insisted that yes, of course I could sell ___, it was really GOOD ... well, when I DIDN'T sell ___, they decided they must have been wrong, and their support/advocacy disappeared. Obviously, I stink because I can't sell anything, and they must have been wrong to begin with.

Instead of being steadfast or supporting me even in the face of swimming upstream, they disappeared and left me to swim alone, which makes me wonder if they were just lying to me all along, you know?

c) Fatedness. This can take so many forms. Of course what I write may be a manifestation of other factors in my chart; but it seems that different aspects of it include:
- absolute unshakeable faith in your own direction (positive)
- lack of compassion towards other people who aren't so
driven (negative)
- acceptance of what fate deals you, when you've fought tooth and nail
for what you (as opposed to fate) wants.
- indolent acceptance of what you're dealt, WITHOUT fighting tooth and
nail for what you want: because your "fate" will deal with everything.
- Resilience in accepting that life can be very hard because you, for
reasons you can't quite explain, made it that way. So, responsibility for
your own past actions.
- Reluctance to actually take control and make decisions that will make
life nicer for yourself! You can do this - but a Yod can induce the
illusion that you can't!

Here, unfortunately, I'd say "none of the above." For me, fate feels more like:
--The people who could make my career (e.g., agents/editors) aren't interested/think I suck/can't write/(at least) can't write what they want to buy at the length they want to buy ... but the people who have no power in publishing (e.g., readers, ironically) think I'm great. I can keep beating my head against a brick wall -- or glass ceiling -- or admit it's no use and quit even trying.

In short, I'm "fated" to fail. That's increasingly what the yod feels like to me: fated failure to achieve anything that actually matters to my fundamental self (sun), no matter how hard I try. I've come to believe it's less about effort or education or reading all the guidelines, workbooks, etc., so much as ALL ABOUT LUCK.

[Fulcrum]

Er, hi.

This may be slightly off topic, and as it's my first post here I'm probably behaving like the bull in the china shop (or more appropriately the ram), but hey, it might be slightly on topic too.

Reader's Digest Condensed Version is that while browsing the site I came upon a discussion of harmonics, and having Kairon open on another screen I followed along with the discussion. I got to the fourth harmonic—the one Bob Marks identifies as the harmonic wherein we deal with stressors and generally unsavory stuff—and looking back over at Kairon I saw in my fourth harmonic wheel:

A Yod. Chiron sextiling Juno, and both inconjunct Mercury.

OK, a little back story. I'm about to have a Chiron Return in the next couple of months, and I'm coming out of a period of self-imposed hermitude trying to get myself spiritually ready for it. This shutting myself away was precipitated by (what else but) the end of a rather intense relationship that I can honestly say I'm over now. Mostly. (It ended about two and a half years ago, and I've been predominantly alone since; only lately has it been by choice.)

If what I've read in this thread so far is any indication, it's Chiron (my "wounded healer") and Juno (harbinger of relationships that last longer than lunch) forcing my Mercury into a situation it's not entirely comfortable in, which is to say communicating effectively with the opposite sex. Don't get me wrong, I can be a walking, talking thesaurus when you get me started, and I've been married, but the post-marriage rebound thing kind of took the wind out of my sails. (It's also been a hallmark of most of my other relationships: I heal them, they flee. And here I thought I was saving myself at the same time I was saving them. Ha.)

Am I anywhere near the mark here in interpreting this Yod in a way that will help me going forward? Not sure which chart you'd rather see, but I'll attach both as a precaution.

Thanks in advance for any insight. This looks like a great community and I'm coming back to the realization that astrology could be another modality I can employ in the process of healing others.

Kadíshte' — rick

[StillOne]

A Yod. Chiron sextiling Juno, and both inconjunct Mercury.
Hey, typically aspect patterns are between planets. Asteroids tend to be too small to be influential in this type of pattern I'm told.

That being said, R4ven, an expert here on Chiron, mentioned to me that she'll use Chiron in a yod if it's the apex of the Yod.

Interestingly, Rageypoo just posted a chart that included his Chiron in the base of a Yod and recounted part of his story which resonated with me. If I draw aspects to my Chiron another Yod will appear and Ragey and I seem to have a similar story of sorts.
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41945

Not sure I answered anything here... :sideways:

[kimbermoon]

[QUOTE=Summery Joy;4784]The Yod of God

Yeah, yeah. I know that it’s either called the “Yod” or “The Finger of God”. I just like the way it rhymes. QUOTE]

:biggrin:thank you for your detailed explanation of the Yod: mine involves Mars/Moon = Venus at the apex. What I have learned is that, at least in my case, the God aspect involves being somewhat protected by a higher power and having the occasional occurrence of divine intervention when truly needed...I agree that in the end, the ongoing paradoxes help to provide us with insight and greater understanding and when working with the energies consciously, we can gain a greater sense of balance in the life...

[kurojung]

I wonder if anyone could help me with my yod (boomerang) as I've had trouble pinpointing what it is in my life. :smile:

Mars and Uranus in sextile (1st house-3rd house)

Mars conjunct the asc.(libra) quincunx Venus in taurus (7th)
Jupiter in 1st opposite Venus in Taurus (exact degree opposition)
Uranus (in 3rd, sagittarius) quincunx Venus in taurus (7th)

I also have a stellium of 4 planets in libra, I was guessing that, as the stellium is domain of venus, venus would be quite strong? but still has some irritation from jupiter and uranus? (mars in the sign of venus and in detriment...) any thoughts?

[kimbermoon]

[QUOTE=kurojung;334151] I was guessing that, as the stellium is domain of venus, venus would be quite strong? QUOTE]

We can assume that Venus is a strong energy for you; if you have your chart, it should show near the top info section which planet is dominant.
For me Venus is also at the apex of a Yod...typically it is stated that Venus represents how we attract others, but there are also many other things it represents: in addition to showing our socialization tendencies it also represents our values as well as our 'expectations of others'...and therein is the key as I have learned through my own experiences...when Venus is under routine pressure it can create feelings of insecurity, self-doubt and low self-esteem; for some even a sense of unworthiness...this is the battle I fought for so many years...In that state of being one is constantly trying to gain validation from others...I was often trying to gain approval and affection from others [especially because Venus in Leo for me] because of my lack of it in childhood and early youth...yet typically what I experienced was aggression from others [with Mars at one leg of the Yod], as well as a lack of respect because I was perceived as being emotionally needy [Moon in Pisces] as the other leg. I had to learn how to validate myself rather than relying on others to do it for me.

It has taken a long long time to reconcile that particular configuration but what I learned over the years is that our 'weaknesses' are merely a state of mind, linked to past conditioning by others, and it is from within that we must heal such inner scarring. I would add that Venus is also about our 'expectations of others' and very often we can hold highly unrealistic expectations of how others should treat us...as such we have to sometimes evaluate whether our expectations are realistic or unrealistic...we must determine where our sense of belonging has been distorted. that's what I have come to understand about my personal Yod. :wink:

[StillOne]

I wonder if anyone could help me with my yod (boomerang) as I've had trouble pinpointing what it is in my life. :smile:
I haven't read this whole thread yet but am eager to do so. I also haven't completely broken down my yods and understood them yet cause I've been trying to get a better foundation for astrology in general before I do so... and that has taken some time since it's such a deep subject. That being said, I'm not going to try and interpret yours. However, I just read a thread where the OP did a pretty good job at deconstructing their Yod here:
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42871

[Kenoshamaensa]

For me Venus is also at the apex of a Yod...typically it is stated that Venus represents how we attract others, but there are also many other things it represents: in addition to showing our socialization tendencies it also represents our values as well as our 'expectations of others'...and therein is the key as I have learned through my own experiences...when Venus is under routine pressure it can create feelings of insecurity, self-doubt and low self-esteem; for some even a sense of unworthiness...this is the battle I fought for so many years...In that state of being one is constantly trying to gain validation from others...I was often trying to gain approval and affection from others [especially because Venus in Leo for me] because of my lack of it in childhood and early youth...yet typically what I experienced was aggression from others [with Mars at one leg of the Yod], as well as a lack of respect because I was perceived as being emotionally needy [Moon in Pisces] as the other leg. I had to learn how to validate myself rather than relying on others to do it for me.

Thank you for the evaluation. A good friend of mine (chart attached) has not just one yod, but THREE, all interwoven, the whole thing making a sort of "house" configuration in his chart, with a Venus-Neptune conjunction in his 1st house, Sagittarius, at the "top" of the house, and the apex of the (to my mind) most significant of the yods. And what you describe above about neediness and insecurity and a lack of self-worth are all, to my mind, very true of him -- if also hidden. The base of the main yod also involves Mars (in stubborn Taurus) and *Saturn* in detriment in Cancer. I look at his chart and sometimes wonder how he gets out of bed in the morning. :-D No, more seriously, he's a very tough individual, and hides his sensitivities. The other reason I name the Venus-Neptune yod as the most import is because by astrodynes, Neptune and Venus are the two most powerful planets in his chart.

So in short, your comment matches a lot of what I've suspected about him, the better I get to know him.

I have a yod as well (my chart in my signature), with Sun at apex, and a Moon-Saturn sextile at the base. I also experience it as self-esteem issues, perhaps in part due to Sun's placement in Libra *and* the 7th house.

[StillOne]

A good friend of mine (chart attached) has not just one yod, but THREE, all interwoven,
Is this person born in Oct of 1973? Is this person married? How was the family life? What does this person do for a living? Any information would be appreciated.

Thanks so much

Here's my chart:

[Kenoshamaensa]

Is this person born in Oct of 1973? Is this person married? How was the family life? What does this person do for a living? Any information would be appreciated.

Oh, my gosh! The two of you were born 3 days apart!

No, he is not married, nor has ever been, although he's had girlfriends and some significant relationships, but he shoots himself in the foot (note he has both a Sun-Uranus conjunction which oppose his Moon [your Sun-Uranus conjunction is even closer than his BUT it *trines* your Moon; it doesn't oppose it -- big difference there], AND his Venus is in freedom-loving Sagittarius, and his Sun is in his 11thhouse). So he may be a Sun Libra, and I know from things he's said he'd LIKE to get married, I'm just not sure if he'll ever let anybody close enough to do so. (He's a very loyal friend, I should add.)

For a living, his "job" is working in an organic grocery story, but his "vocation" is teaching. He's an excellent teacher, albeit occasionally a bit too hard on students (in terms of tests). But his dedication and enthusiasm are exceptional. His midheaven is in Virgo, note. :-) (Part of our mutual friendship rests on the fact my ASC/DSC axis likes almost on top of his MC/IC axis, and our Moons are conjunct.)

But that aside, I'd LOVE to hear how you experience your yods.

[kimbermoon]

I agree...how does this person get up in the morning?...but as they say adversity makes us stronger...just some thoughts to consider:


with such a widespread planetary placement in the chart, it makes sense to consider those houses that are unoccupied for insights as to where balancing may be found...whoa Venus with Neptune – either highly creative and inspired or easily duped and naïve...the first house of course represents the persona more than the true identity – Saturn in the 8th can be highly suggestive of psychological blockages causing limitation and frustration...in aspect to Pluto – a karmic involvement;


Moon in Aries is assertive and expressive but can sometimes create tendencies towards being domineering and being combative – the basic inner need is to be 'in control' and many with this factor indeed show struggles with control issues. ..the lesson is to learn control of self rather than seeking validation by controlling others...

The relationship chemistry is depicted especially through the interplay between Venus, Mars and the Moon – and the challenge is in balancing the variable energies of the three: Venus in Sagittarius; Mars in Taurus; and Moon in Aries: two fire signs in trine, and one earth sign...



Mercury in Scorpio 12th/ emotional intensity repressed especially in opposition to Mars...does not openly communicate about emotions: also the potential of latent health concerns...Venus and Neptune can also be the 'pretender', keeping their inner selves hidden...so the projection of the persona is quite different from the true self...consider Pluto trine Jupiter with Venus/Neptune at the Midpoint...

look to the nodal axis in Capricorn/Cancer – necessary balancing between personal [domestic] concerns and public obligations...Chiron with the Moon – necessary healing of the inner child relating to love and creativity...

the polarity between Virgo/Pisces may hint at a see-sawing between selfishness and self concern, and being of service to others: selfLESSness is preferred in most situations...but not all of course...

the dynamic and creative leo energy is transferred to the 11th house of Libra... comments?

[StillOne]

But that aside, I'd LOVE to hear how you experience your yods.
I'll get back to you on that. Here's an old thread with similar charts:
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3425&highlight=pentagram

Sorry, write more later. I'm leaving work now! Lol

[Kenoshamaensa]

First, thanks, StillOne. I went over and read through that, then posted to it.

with such a widespread planetary placement in the chart, it makes sense to consider those houses that are unoccupied for insights as to where balancing may be found...whoa Venus with Neptune – either highly creative and inspired or easily duped and naïve...the first house of course represents the persona more than the true identity – Saturn in the 8th can be highly suggestive of psychological blockages causing limitation and frustration...in aspect to Pluto – a karmic involvement .... Moon in Aries is assertive and expressive but can sometimes create tendencies towards being domineering and being combative – the basic inner need is to be 'in control' and many with this factor indeed show struggles with control issues. ..the lesson is to learn control of self rather than seeking validation by controlling others...

First, thanks for the comments. Lots of things you said would match things I read, as well.

I've noted before that here is a Libra Sun who I know (from personal conversations) would actually quite LIKE to get married, and would be a very loyal marriage partner ... but that Sun is Conjunct Uranus AND his Moon is opposite both ... AND his 7th house is empty. Wow. Poor guy.

Anyway, I think that Saturn does point to a number of blockages, as well as certain inhibitions about sex. Not that he sees sex as "bad," but he seems to like to exercise great personal sexual control. So if the Aries moon is about controling others/situations/competitions (winning) -- something I understand because I also have an Aries Moon (in fact, our Moons are conjunction, which is a lot of why I "get" him when others don't) -- BUT Saturn is about INNER control, and here over passions.

Now, it's always hard to know how much of what people tell you about their sex lives is actually true, but overall, he's honest almost to a fault, and tends to be very straightforward. We haven't talked about sex a lot, but I know that with his girlfriend of 6+ months (she being formerly married with a child, he in his mid-30s), they had sex exactly ONCE, and she talked him into it ... and he later regretted it because he didn't feel enough of an emotional tie to her. !!!!

I know he also has SERIOUS issues with adultery and has a really hard time either understanding how a man could "fall" into adultery, much less excusing it, even under the influence of alcohol, etc. As he put it, "You're sticking a part of your BODY in another person. There's nothing 'accidental' about that, no matter how drunk you are." And yes, he was cheated on by a former girlfriend, so his issues are partly personal. (And I was cheated on by my former husbands, so that's why we were talking about it.) I don't think I've ever met a man AS unforgiving of other men who cheat as he is. (And I won't even get into what he thinks of rape.) All that said, I also know (kinda by accident) that like probably every other male on the planet with internet access, he's looked at his share of online ****. *grin*

I say all that because, while I've read several times that 8th-house Saturn (especially weakened as in Detriment) can lead to sexual *dysfunction*, I've read less about "hyper-control" as a manifestiation. Yes, Saturn can introduce limitations, but it's really about control -- and that's very much what I see in his expression of it (well, insofar as I now; we doesn't share everything).

Now, back to the Venus-Neptune ... OMG! I had to laugh at what you said. He may be THE most clueless male I know when it comes to reading other people. At first, I actually wondered if he might have Asperger's Syndrome, except he doesn't manifest any of the OTHER characteristics of Aspies. (For instance, he lacks the Aspie tendency to get compulsive about a single subject, to talk in a monotone, to lack social skills -- aside from his social blindness, he's fairly popular and easy to get along with -- and he's highly athletic ... which most Aspies aren't.)

But yes, he is "blind" to a LOT of the subtle emotional dynamics going on around him because, in true Sagittarian fashion, he's an emotional bull in a china shop. He tends to say what he's feeling (sometimes without a lot of regard for others' feelings), and so he is ... confused ... when others DON'T necessarily just blurt out what they're feeling. For a while, when younger, I think he viewed them as trying to deceive him, and it made him cautious. Older now, I think he's finally starting to realize it's not always intentional, but it still frustrates him. He uses me a lot to "explain" people's behavior to him (I was a former counselor), as I can usually do so in a way he understands, at least on the surface. He just can't SEE it himself.

I'm his "social interpreter." :-)

The funny thing is ... he really is popular. He's constantly asked to parties, to hang out with friends, etc. He's hit on by women FAR far more than he realizes. A lot of that is a combo of the gentle Venus-Neptune in the 1st house with magnetic Scorpio on the Asc and a Sun-Uranus conjunction in Libra, all making him "fascinating" to people. The irony is that he doesn't consider most of them more than acquaintances, and will usually try to find a way to get out of social engagements, even actively dislikes larger gatherings as he prefers to hang out with friends one-on-one or in small groups. And he prefers to have something to "do" when it is a group activity (such as a game to play, etc.). He's very competitive, as that Taurus Mars in the 6th/Aries Moon suggests. (He hates to lose.)

But as you say, how he's seen is not how he IS. His Sun-Uranus conjunction in Libra is really more characteristic of his inner self (IME) than the Scorp Rising or Venus-Neptune. He's Bohemian, and he likes being so, even while he often appears very "classically" male -- and is even a former hockey player [defense]. (For a long time, he even sported a long ponytail. Every time I see a guy with a ponytail in these days (post-60s), I want to see his chart to find out how prominent his Uranus is!)

The relationship chemistry is depicted especially through the interplay between Venus, Mars and the Moon – and the challenge is in balancing the variable energies of the three: Venus in Sagittarius; Mars in Taurus; and Moon in Aries: two fire signs in trine, and one earth sign... Mercury in Scorpio 12th/ emotional intensity repressed especially in opposition to Mars...does not openly communicate about emotions: also the potential of latent health concerns...Venus and Neptune can also be the 'pretender', keeping their inner selves hidden...so the projection of the persona is quite different from the true self...consider Pluto trine Jupiter with Venus/Neptune at the Midpoint...

Yes, as noted, all very much true. He feels very intensely, and often represses it, although he does say that he says what he feels ... which is true -- to a point. Rather, I think the truth is that he doesn't necessarily LIE about what he feels, but I think he says less than he believes he does. Back to that Sun-Moon opposition (with Uranus in the mix). His projected image is different from the way he sees himself, which is different yet again than how he sometimes FEELS. He claims to hate "drama" -- and does -- but boy, he can stir it up in his wake like dust behind a cart ... and be all but unaware of what he's done! I'd believe him disingenuous, but I KNOW him ... and he really doesn't see it. He's not lying. (Although I think he's also more subtly aware of situations than he even realizes -- deliberate blindness to his own instinctual perceptions ... even while he can be a complete DOOFUS to most things.) He's a weird mix.

look to the nodal axis in Capricorn/Cancer – necessary balancing between personal [domestic] concerns and public obligations...Chiron with the Moon – necessary healing of the inner child relating to love and creativity... the polarity between Virgo/Pisces may hint at a see-sawing between selfishness and self concern, and being of service to others: selfLESSness is preferred in most situations...but not all of course... the dynamic and creative leo energy is transferred to the 11th house of Libra...

comments?

First, on the selfless/selfish ... he's really very self-centered. And I use that rather than "selfish" because I see it as more unconscious or subconscious. If he's accused of being selfish, he gets angry and defensive. He doesn't WANT to be ... but he is. Constantly. I find I'm able to forgive him for it because he doesn't "mean" it -- but it's still frustrating as hell. He was the younger child (like me), a little spoiled even while much was also expected of him. But it gives him this general "privileged" attitude that coming from an upper-middle-class family reinforced. But again, it's actually an attitude he dislikes ... he's just blind to his own tendency to display it. *grin* (Then again, we often have the least tolerance for the things we like least in ourselves.)

As for the rest -- he's a workaholic, put simply. It's (to my mind) a defense mechanism, a way to keep others at a (safe) distance because he's too busy. And he really IS busy, but he keeps it that way. Again, he hates lying and can't just say he's busy when he's not, so he keeps himself too busy. He works 60+ hours a week. Really. Has a normal 40-hour "job" that pays the rent and gives him health insurance, then he also teaches part-time at the uni, and puts in MORE effort for those classes than most of us who do it professionally as full-time faculty. OTOH, I admire him; on the other ... he goes overboard at times. But his teaching job is his "hobby," so it's like anything someone does for love, not (really) money. He gets paid, but it's a pittance compared to the time he puts in. He puts in the time because he enjoys it. And he's a **** good teacher -- very creative (the OTHER side of that Venus-Neptune ...). When *I* have trouble dealing with students or thinking of a new approach, I call him for ideas. And he's always got them. Always. His ability to think outside the box is extraordinary.

But all that work also makes it impossible for him to have a social life. OTOH, he complains about not having one, or a relationship ... but OTOH, it provides an excuse. Does he realize it? Yes, honestly, I think he does, but he's just decided that he's destined to go through life single (even if a part of him really doesn't want to -- the Libra Sun part).

I'm not sure if he's willing to put in the changes (ADJUSTMENTS ... QUINCUNX!!!) necessarily to spend his life "in partnership" ... even while he would like to, and speaks of it with a certain longing (when he's not being cynical and bitter). He knows he'd have to give up a lot that, after almost 40 years single, he's grown used to. He's not sure how to share living space, I think.

Could he learn? I don't know. But honestly, I think that's how I would read his Yod-Pattern, with Venus-Neptune at the apex. EVERYTHING seems to be driving him to surrender the self-centered 1st house Venus-Neptune "charmed" appearance in favor of developing that EMPTY 7th house, the natural house of Libra, his sun-sign.

And he's RESISTING it like nobody's business. :-D

[StillOne]

First, thanks so much for sharing this Keno. It helps me quite a bit since I exhibit similar phenomena to your friend and which is what brought me to this forum in the first place.

I don't really know where to start. There is so much to talk about here. I'm going to go through the posts as best as I can. I'll try and add how I feel my yods, but being relatively new to this, I don't know how they operate quite well yet.

I also have some recommendations for your friend that has helped me. First, astrology has helped a ton since it explains the nature and difficulty of the quincunx aspect. We have to look at this as a very karmic placement that these are lessons to be learned and transcended. I feel so much more at peace now that I "understand" myself and my nature. Yoga and meditation has helped incredibly as well in gaining confidence. I think yoga and meditation is highly conducive to this placement since it is the union of the mind, body and spirit. It will help "connect" this person. I think the spiritual growth can greatly assist here and may be necessary.

With Sun conjunct Uranus we're not true Librans and more like Aquarians (as I was told by astrologer50). It makes sense. It's also interesting that I seem to exhibit traits of the aquarian age very much. I rejected organized religion when I was younger but now am really drawn to self realization.

No, he is not married, nor has ever been, although he's had girlfriends and some significant relationships, but he shoots himself in the foot (note he has both a Sun-Uranus conjunction which oppose his Moon [your Sun-Uranus conjunction is even closer than his BUT it *trines* your Moon; it doesn't oppose it -- big difference there], AND his Venus is in freedom-loving Sagittarius, and his Sun is in his 11thhouse). So he may be a Sun Libra, and I know from things he's said he'd LIKE to get married, I'm just not sure if he'll ever let anybody close enough to do so. (He's a very loyal friend, I should add.)
I'm not married either. I've had a string of failed relationships in my life all exhibiting the same characteristics; the incredible rose colored glasses of neptune conj venus and then the desire for personal freedom in sun conj uranus. The Yods play subtle but strong undercurrents here that must be recognized in order to evolve past this, in my opinion. I'm working on this as hard as I can and I think I can get there! I'm hoping anyway... I really feel for him because of the Sun Moon opp. The three yods alone is miserable. Must be more so for him since his Saturn apex yod is in the 8th house. My Saturn apex is in the 12th house and is largely hidden from me and I haven't even begun to contemplate that yet. However with the Moon opposition that has to add extra misery. I feel fortunate now...

For a living, his "job" is working in an organic grocery story, but his "vocation" is teaching. He's an excellent teacher, albeit occasionally a bit too hard on students (in terms of tests). But his dedication and enthusiasm are exceptional. His midheaven is in Virgo, note. :-) (Part of our mutual friendship rests on the fact my ASC/DSC axis likes almost on top of his MC/IC axis, and our Moons are conjunct.)
I work in finance. It's not my passion though. I never really knew what I wanted to do. Come to find out that my MC is really in Pisces. So my birthtime is slightly off from the chart I posted above. I have tons of potential, I feel, but my timing has been poor in a lot of what I do and there has been other setbacks. I can't help to feel it's the yods at work.

Considering the placements, there seems to always be something activating the yods somewhere in the chart to throw one off balance or give brief periods of profound insight. I think the only way to work with it is to watch your transits and tune in.

Recently I've had T Jupiter conj my Rx Mars apex yod. It has given me energy to start some new things. I wouldn't say a lot of energy since Taurus is the position and Mars is retrograde in my chart. But there has been a change. It has also helped highlight that Yod and given me insight to it.

Will contribute more. It's Thanksgiving so I need to get going.

[Kenoshamaensa]

First, astrology has helped a ton since it explains the nature and difficulty of the quincunx aspect. We have to look at this as a very karmic placement that these are lessons to be learned and transcended. I feel so much more at peace now that I "understand" myself and my nature. Yoga and meditation has helped incredibly as well in gaining confidence. I think yoga and meditation is highly conducive to this placement since it is the union of the mind, body and spirit. It will help "connect" this person. I think the spiritual growth can greatly assist here and may be necessary.

I really wish I could get him interested in any of that, but I doubt it. Despite the Aquarius to his Sun, he isn't all that open to alternative ideas like astrology (or not in my experience of him). Alternative/challenging ideas in general, yes, as (for instance) in history. He actually allows his students an option on his tests, that if they get the question WRONG, but they've studied and HAVE a reason for answering the way they did, they can bring in evidence to support their position (real evidence, not just "I think..."), then he will mark the question correct -- because even professional historians will disagree about causes. I remember being HUGELY impressed by that sort of open-mindedness (as well as an awareness that while some explanations may just be wrong/out there, in history, what is "right" is often less clear).

But that said, he can still be pretty stubborn about certain things (fixed nature of Aquarius, plus his fixed Rising in Scorpio). I've never discussed astrology with him directly, but he generally considers such things hogwash. Ironically, I now how I could probably approach it in such a way he wouldn't immediately dismiss it, but he'd have to be in the right mood, and just the right situation would have to evolve.

But YES, I think if he could just SEE his chart, a lot of things he's shared with me -- frustrations, blockages, etc. -- would begin to make sense to him ... and he might be able to find a way out of them. Dunno.

Since you mentioned you only came to astrology recently and previously doubted it, what changed your mind?

With Sun conjunct Uranus we're not true Librans and more like Aquarians (as I was told by astrologer50). It makes sense. It's also interesting that I seem to exhibit traits of the aquarian age very much. I rejected organized religion when I was younger but now am really drawn to self realization.

Yes, I can totally see that, and depending on how one figures up "power" of planets in a chart, Uranus is one of the more powerful planets he's got. By Astrodynes, it's Venus and Neptune (Uranus is actually down a ways), but by other forms of measuring planetary strength, he's Uranian to the hilt. Personally, I'd count Uranus as his most powerful planet rather than Venus-Neptune. Although that may be because I now him well, but am still "outside." He may experience more of the Venusian-Neptunian influence, as Neptune tends to express internally more (IME).

But he is by far the most Aquarian Libra I know. But I can still see the Libra in him clearly. Unfortunately, sometimes the Libra-Aquarius seems to be at war, at least when it comes to Libra's need to relate versus Aquarius's need to "keep it casual." Given his 11th house Sun-Uranus, a Sagittarian Venus, and his empty 7th house, it's not great surprise that he has a WIDE circle of "casual" friends, but relatively few close friends. Now, just to mess it up MORE, throw in Scorpio Rising, and I think he fights himself a LOT. Even though the Rising is more how others see YOU (than how you feel in yourself), it IS still part of how he relates -- and the fact mental Mercury (a personal planet) is in Scorpio, and rising, it makes the Scorpionic energy more than just a veneer.

Mentally, he wants to get to the root of things; emotionally, he wants to keep people at a distance, even while he seems to feel a wishful desire for marriage/a partner. It's like he can't make up his mind. :-)

Aside from the Scorpio, does that sort of friction seem true for you, as well?

I'm not married either. I've had a string of failed relationships in my life all exhibiting the same characteristics; the incredible rose colored glasses of neptune conj venus and then the desire for personal freedom in sun conj uranus. The Yods play subtle but strong undercurrents here that must be recognized in order to evolve past this, in my opinion. I'm working on this as hard as I can and I think I can get there! I'm hoping anyway... I really feel for him because of the Sun Moon opp. The three yods alone is miserable. Must be more so for him since his Saturn apex yod is in the 8th house. My Saturn apex is in the 12th house and is largely hidden from me and I haven't even begun to contemplate that yet. However with the Moon opposition that has to add extra misery. I feel fortunate now...

I'm not sure this pattern, with a Venus-Neptune conj. and the quincunx to Saturn, will be easy on anyone, but yet, throwing a moon opp in there just makes it MORE fun for him (not).

You mentioned the rose-colored glasses thing, and that reminds me of a conversation we had once about attraction. He said he tends to be attracted to someone initially ... or not at all. It goes into friendship, and that's it. He's never fallen in love (later) with a friend. I found that interesting, as I've known lots of people (including me) who've had that experience of being able to fall in love with a friend. Given his Sun-Uranus conjunction in Libra, I'd think he'd actually be MORE inclined to that than me, but looking at the Venus-Neptune in fiery (not airy) Sagittarius, maybe that's the issue for him. Although focusing on his Sun-Uranus conjunction in Libra (opposed to the moon or not), MIGHT be one way of handling the frustration for him of Venus-Neptune quincunx killer Saturn.

Given that you have similar placements, if not the moon opp, what do you think? I know his lack of being able to maintain a relationship makes him depressed at times.

I work in finance. It's not my passion though. I never really knew what I wanted to do. Come to find out that my MC is really in Pisces. So my birthtime is slightly off from the chart I posted above. I have tons of potential, I feel, but my timing has been poor in a lot of what I do and there has been other setbacks. I can't help to feel it's the yods at work.

You'll find that given birthtimes are rarely absolutely correct, and have to be "rectified." This is because not all hospitals note birthtimes, if the mother or father look at the clock, it's usually several minutes (at best) after the baby is born, and hospital clocks may be slightly late or slightly early. When my son was born, I immediately looked at the clock, but it was 2 minutes early, I found out. :-)

Anyway, you can sometimes rectify a chart by looking at houses near cusps, if you have them. For instance, I can get mine down to within a couple minutes because I know both my 5th and 6th/11th and 12th houses are in the same sign, but I also know my rising sign is Pisces, not Aquarius. In addition, as Saturn passed over my Asc for the first time, I fell on some ice and broke my ankle (Saturn-bones/Pisces-feet). Saturn can be helpful because those transits can have very *literal* fallout.

So you'll probably find you have to adjust your chart, but there are tricks to doing so. :-)

Considering the placements, there seems to always be something activating the yods somewhere in the chart to throw one off balance or give brief periods of profound insight. I think the only way to work with it is to watch your transits and tune in.

Yes, I think that's right. Because quincunxes aren't part of the traditional Ptolemaic aspects, they tend to get overlooked. I believe the yod is finally starting to be recognized as an important pattern, and I'm seeing more books discuss the effects of the quincunx in aspect descriptions. I've been paying more attention to quincunxes *in transit*, too. It can be hard to get reports of transits that include the quincunx. I like Astrodienst in general, but they don't include the quincunx on transit reports. iVillage Astrology.com does, however. So getting both reports is useful.

Recently I've had T Jupiter conj my Rx Mars apex yod. It has given me energy to start some new things. I wouldn't say a lot of energy since Taurus is the position and Mars is retrograde in my chart. But there has been a change. It has also helped highlight that Yod and given me insight to it.

Ironically, I've seen him kick-starting his career a little more lately, too. :-) He's been rather passive about it for the past 5 years or so, although some of his colleagues/friends and former profs keep trying to prod him into doing more. Now he seems to be moving forward again, and yes, I think Jupiter is helping that, as it's approaching his Mars. (Mars was retro when you were both born, to Jup hits your Mars first.)

Another transit coming up for all of you with this pattern that should probably be looked at ... Uranus opposed to Pluto and squaring Saturn. That's going to form a T-Square. The Saturn-Pluto square in your chart is TIGHT, so Uranus is going to hit both *at once*. Watch out for that. Uranus is the Great Up-setter, and particularly doesn't get on well with Saturn! With a T-Square, look to the EMPTY side to find a focus. The energy sometimes explodes out towards the empty house/sign. That's 4-degrees Capricorn, so look there. ALSO, if you have *short-term* transits of the personal planets hitting that trigger spot, pay attention, because they can set off events the exemplify the stress of the Transiting T-Square. Given all that stressful energy, be careful. Thankfully, Mars is a long way away, and not likely to reach the trigger point before it's over. Sun, Venus, and Mercury (and the Moon) will probably hit it, but I haven't checked an ephemeris.

Edit: I just did check the ephemeris, and actually the worst hit by this will be about a year from now, and especially around the 24-27 of December 2012, when the Sun will be in the critical degrees of Capricorn around 4. Now, the moon will hit those degrees a couple times during the T-Uranus T-Square stretch, but while the moon can be a trigger, it's look more at the other personal planets. I didn't look forward into 2013, however. Keep in mind, most transits hit three times (maybe 4). It's the retro hit that (ime) can cause the real jolt. The first run over it is like priming the pump (that'll be Febuary-ish of 2012). Then the retro hits, knocks everything askew, and the last pass ends it. The Retro-Final pass of the Uranus T-Square will more or less be continual, as retro Uranus doesn't pass out of orb before it turns direct. So look for that to be a key upcoming transit for those with this configuration, sitting the "house" spinning. If you know it's coming, you can be ready.

[StillOne]

I agree...how does this person get up in the morning?...but as they say adversity makes us stronger...just some thoughts to consider:


with such a widespread planetary placement in the chart, it makes sense to consider those houses that are unoccupied for insights as to where balancing may be found...whoa Venus with Neptune – either highly creative and inspired or easily duped and naïve...the first house of course represents the persona more than the true identity – Saturn in the 8th can be highly suggestive of psychological blockages causing limitation and frustration...in aspect to Pluto – a karmic involvement;
Very interesting. I know this pertains to him and not me but thanks for mentioning the unoccupied houses theory. I'm really bogged down by my chart. There is so much going on I feel. I think I understand why the other pentagram (house) yod people don't frequent this board any longer now...


Moon in Aries is assertive and expressive but can sometimes create tendencies towards being domineering and being combative – the basic inner need is to be 'in control' and many with this factor indeed show struggles with control issues. ..the lesson is to learn control of self rather than seeking validation by controlling others...
Seems his moon placement may be a little more serious than mine in terms of impacting his chart negatively. Although mine is in Gemini 12th house opposing the Venus Neptune conj... Lol. Ummm, at this point I'm not sure there's a better placement anywhere in this type of chart...

Mercury in Scorpio 12th/ emotional intensity repressed especially in opposition to Mars...does not openly communicate about emotions: also the potential of latent health concerns...Venus and Neptune can also be the 'pretender', keeping their inner selves hidden...so the projection of the persona is quite different from the true self...consider Pluto trine Jupiter with Venus/Neptune at the Midpoint...
I exhibit some of this. Mars retrograde is not fun. Sure it can make us seem chill and relaxed but inside we're usually fighting it out. There's potential for sexual issues as well.

I was largely unemotional (Moon in Gemini 12th) for a good portion of my life until my saturn return I suppose. All of a sudden I could feel and it was confusing but it began my awakening. Now I'm deeply emotional. Turns out I have a large portion of water in my chart even though it doesn't tell in the grid. It's due to the planets that occupy the water houses. Water is almost as strong as the Air in my chart. They're about evenly split with just a touch more Air.

Mars retrograde are Singletons in our chart. It's tough. Especially considering it's the apex of a yod. This also potentially being his chart ruler along with Pluto in the 11th and a quincunx between the 2 makes it extra tough I'd say.

[StillOne]

I've noted before that here is a Libra Sun who I know (from personal conversations) would actually quite LIKE to get married, and would be a very loyal marriage partner ... but that Sun is Conjunct Uranus AND his Moon is opposite both ... AND his 7th house is empty. Wow. Poor guy.
I'm the same way (minus the moon opposition here). I've always thought that I would get married. However, it's as if it's in a dream state, like it's not very tangible. It just floats in my mind somewhere to be fantasized about and built upon... refined...

Anyway, I think that Saturn does point to a number of blockages, as well as certain inhibitions about sex. Not that he sees sex as "bad," but he seems to like to exercise great personal sexual control. So if the Aries moon is about controling others/situations/competitions (winning) -- something I understand because I also have an Aries Moon (in fact, our Moons are conjunction, which is a lot of why I "get" him when others don't) -- BUT Saturn is about INNER control, and here over passions.
Saturn and Mars retrograde are tough for sex. My Saturn apex yod is largely hidden in my 12th so I might be fortunate in a sense that I don't exhibit the Saturn influence that he does.

Now, it's always hard to know how much of what people tell you about their sex lives is actually true, but overall, he's honest almost to a fault, and tends to be very straightforward. We haven't talked about sex a lot, but I know that with his girlfriend of 6+ months (she being formerly married with a child, he in his mid-30s), they had sex exactly ONCE, and she talked him into it ... and he later regretted it because he didn't feel enough of an emotional tie to her. !!!!
Wow, ok so I'm definitely not in this boat. This is intense and he needs to check into his chart asap. With a girlfriend of over 6 months and sex only once?? OMG! I can't believe that he's not tripping more and doing some more introspection.

I can definitely relate to the emotional contact not being enough. This is Venus Neptune conj. We're seeking something more. Something beyond. We're seeking a love that ties across the whole spectrum from the spirit, intellect, emotions and physical. The only connection that is this perfect is the divine. Until this man realizes the incredible rose colored glasses he's wearing he will keep making the same mistakes. For us this life is about learning about imperfection and embracing human tendencies or... merge with the divine and renounce altogether... Very Yod-like, no?? I can pretty much guarantee you that once he realizes his years of wearing those rose tinted glasses, that becoming spiritual is right around the corner. He has to. In order for him to find a partner that he can possibly connect with he has to start there. He's looking for a pure connection. If the spirituality isn't aligned it wont work. That is usually one of the more difficult things to find out quickly in a relationship also.

I know he also has SERIOUS issues with adultery and has a really hard time either understanding how a man could "fall" into adultery, much less excusing it, even under the influence of alcohol, etc. As he put it, "You're sticking a part of your BODY in another person. There's nothing 'accidental' about that, no matter how drunk you are." And yes, he was cheated on by a former girlfriend, so his issues are partly personal. (And I was cheated on by my former husbands, so that's why we were talking about it.) I don't think I've ever met a man AS unforgiving of other men who cheat as he is. (And I won't even get into what he thinks of rape.) All that said, I also know (kinda by accident) that like probably every other male on the planet with internet access, he's looked at his share of online ****. *grin*
Ok I don't exhibit this as intensely as he does but I can see where he's coming from in a sense. That has once again to do with the Ven Nep conj and the high ideal of love/romance.

Regarding the online **** with mars retrograde in taurus combined with the fact that he only had sex with with his ex once, I'd say that there's some sexual issues there. It also, once again, points to Ven Nep and the fantasy. I exhibit some of this so I'm aware. It's like it's so much easier and often better to just fantasize about it. Why? Cause it's perfect every time!! You can make it what you want. There are no odors, no weird comments, no issues at all. Easy... but dysfunctional. There could be more to it also.

I say all that because, while I've read several times that 8th-house Saturn (especially weakened as in Detriment) can lead to sexual *dysfunction*, I've read less about "hyper-control" as a manifestiation. Yes, Saturn can introduce limitations, but it's really about control -- and that's very much what I see in his expression of it (well, insofar as I now; we doesn't share everything).
Yes, it's about control. Never losing control which I think is a fight with a chart like this. We always feel out of control so we struggle to control what we can. Plus, being intimate is very difficult because you have to open up and release the control..

Now, back to the Venus-Neptune ... OMG! I had to laugh at what you said. He may be THE most clueless male I know when it comes to reading other people. At first, I actually wondered if he might have Asperger's Syndrome, except he doesn't manifest any of the OTHER characteristics of Aspies. (For instance, he lacks the Aspie tendency to get compulsive about a single subject, to talk in a monotone, to lack social skills -- aside from his social blindness, he's fairly popular and easy to get along with -- and he's highly athletic ... which most Aspies aren't.)

But yes, he is "blind" to a LOT of the subtle emotional dynamics going on around him because, in true Sagittarian fashion, he's an emotional bull in a china shop. He tends to say what he's feeling (sometimes without a lot of regard for others' feelings), and so he is ... confused ... when others DON'T necessarily just blurt out what they're feeling. For a while, when younger, I think he viewed them as trying to deceive him, and it made him cautious. Older now, I think he's finally starting to realize it's not always intentional, but it still frustrates him. He uses me a lot to "explain" people's behavior to him (I was a former counselor), as I can usually do so in a way he understands, at least on the surface. He just can't SEE it himself.
I can relate to some of this but not to this extent. I can be a little gullible. Especially when I was younger. I think that was because I tend to place people on pedestals, initially, out of respect. I know one of the quincunx aspects point to going overboard for people then being frustrated they don't give back. It's made me more cautious now which is bittersweet. This relates to what I mentioned above; the desire to connect deeply (at least for me). I've found my depth becoming expansive as I've matured but I allow very few to those depths. Generally I'm hurt by most people.


The funny thing is ... he really is popular. He's constantly asked to parties, to hang out with friends, etc. He's hit on by women FAR far more than he realizes. A lot of that is a combo of the gentle Venus-Neptune in the 1st house with magnetic Scorpio on the Asc and a Sun-Uranus conjunction in Libra, all making him "fascinating" to people. The irony is that he doesn't consider most of them more than acquaintances, and will usually try to find a way to get out of social engagements, even actively dislikes larger gatherings as he prefers to hang out with friends one-on-one or in small groups. And he prefers to have something to "do" when it is a group activity (such as a game to play, etc.). He's very competitive, as that Taurus Mars in the 6th/Aries Moon suggests. (He hates to lose.)
Ok, I'm similar here as well in some ways. I have so many stories about this, lol, I don't even know where to start! I used to feel that I had to go out cause it was the thing to do. Although I knew that I shouldn't go out. I would get talked into going out and usually finding that I wasn't having fun. I rarely have fun when I go to parties or events. Maybe it has to do with that connection thing. I'd also rather spend time with people one-on-one or in a smaller group.

These days I don't go out much at all. I've become increasingly reclusive, attempting to reconfigure my life. It seems I am starting something new altogether and I'm largely avoiding most of my friends because most of them drain me anyway. I feel a deep need to change, to expand. This might just be me, in this case, as Uranus is currently transiting my MC. Also the Jupiter transiting Mars has fueled some of this too. It's for the better as I'm evolving exponentially at this point.

Interesting that he's such a competitor. Mars retrograde is usually opposite. Not very competitive or at least not outwardly. I'm a little surprised to hear he actually played on a team as I know other Mars retrograde in taurus that just did the solo activity thing. Maybe it's a house thing or something that he just grew beyond.

But as you say, how he's seen is not how he IS. His Sun-Uranus conjunction in Libra is really more characteristic of his inner self (IME) than the Scorp Rising or Venus-Neptune. He's Bohemian, and he likes being so, even while he often appears very "classically" male -- and is even a former hockey player [defense]. (For a long time, he even sported a long ponytail. Every time I see a guy with a ponytail in these days (post-60s), I want to see his chart to find out how prominent his Uranus is!)
Yes, the sun uranus conjunction is huge as well (sigh). Venus Neptune dreams and Sun Uranus doesn't want a part of it once we get it..:annoyed:


Yes, as noted, all very much true. He feels very intensely, and often represses it, although he does say that he says what he feels ... which is true -- to a point. Rather, I think the truth is that he doesn't necessarily LIE about what he feels, but I think he says less than he believes he does. Back to that Sun-Moon opposition (with Uranus in the mix). His projected image is different from the way he sees himself, which is different yet again than how he sometimes FEELS. He claims to hate "drama" -- and does -- but boy, he can stir it up in his wake like dust behind a cart ... and be all but unaware of what he's done! I'd believe him disingenuous, but I KNOW him ... and he really doesn't see it. He's not lying. (Although I think he's also more subtly aware of situations than he even realizes -- deliberate blindness to his own instinctual perceptions ... even while he can be a complete DOOFUS to most things.) He's a weird mix.
I've always been a pretty good mediator and can spin things pretty well. I'm also secretive (pluto in the 3rd) and will hide what I think is necessary. So, yes, I'll lie a bit as well. Maybe I'm not revealing everything or using words to play situations slightly differently. Usually it's for the benefit of everyone, as I see it anyway.


First, on the selfless/selfish ... he's really very self-centered. And I use that rather than "selfish" because I see it as more unconscious or subconscious. If he's accused of being selfish, he gets angry and defensive. He doesn't WANT to be ... but he is. Constantly. I find I'm able to forgive him for it because he doesn't "mean" it -- but it's still frustrating as hell. He was the younger child (like me), a little spoiled even while much was also expected of him. But it gives him this general "privileged" attitude that coming from an upper-middle-class family reinforced. But again, it's actually an attitude he dislikes ... he's just blind to his own tendency to display it. *grin* (Then again, we often have the least tolerance for the things we like least in ourselves.)
I think I share some of this as well. I'm selfish about my time and where I spend it. I can become very impatient and irritated when I don't feel I'm spending my time right (Sun Uranus).

As for the rest -- he's a workaholic, put simply. It's (to my mind) a defense mechanism, a way to keep others at a (safe) distance because he's too busy. And he really IS busy, but he keeps it that way. Again, he hates lying and can't just say he's busy when he's not, so he keeps himself too busy. He works 60+ hours a week. Really. Has a normal 40-hour "job" that pays the rent and gives him health insurance, then he also teaches part-time at the uni, and puts in MORE effort for those classes than most of us who do it professionally as full-time faculty. OTOH, I admire him; on the other ... he goes overboard at times. But his teaching job is his "hobby," so it's like anything someone does for love, not (really) money. He gets paid, but it's a pittance compared to the time he puts in. He puts in the time because he enjoys it. And he's a **** good teacher -- very creative (the OTHER side of that Venus-Neptune ...). When *I* have trouble dealing with students or thinking of a new approach, I call him for ideas. And he's always got them. Always. His ability to think outside the box is extraordinary.

But all that work also makes it impossible for him to have a social life. OTOH, he complains about not having one, or a relationship ... but OTOH, it provides an excuse. Does he realize it? Yes, honestly, I think he does, but he's just decided that he's destined to go through life single (even if a part of him really doesn't want to -- the Libra Sun part).

I'm not sure if he's willing to put in the changes (ADJUSTMENTS ... QUINCUNX!!!) necessarily to spend his life "in partnership" ... even while he would like to, and speaks of it with a certain longing (when he's not being cynical and bitter). He knows he'd have to give up a lot that, after almost 40 years single, he's grown used to. He's not sure how to share living space, I think.

Could he learn? I don't know. But honestly, I think that's how I would read his Yod-Pattern, with Venus-Neptune at the apex. EVERYTHING seems to be driving him to surrender the self-centered 1st house Venus-Neptune "charmed" appearance in favor of developing that EMPTY 7th house, the natural house of Libra, his sun-sign.

And he's RESISTING it like nobody's business. :-D

Yeah, it's about where we're spending our time. We have to watch that carefully. It's easy to not put in the work necessary or have a plan. I think I just nailed it there. It's about the plan and being regimented to that. That's what North Node Capricorn requires. I think the Ven Nep and Sun Ur are keeping us from that. A detailed and regimented plan is necessary. Also, the rose colored glasses have to come off otherwise he's still in DanLand.

[StillOne]

I really wish I could get him interested in any of that, but I doubt it. Despite the Aquarius to his Sun, he isn't all that open to alternative ideas like astrology (or not in my experience of him).
You might have to try. Has he seen his chart? You may be able to explain it as being slightly star-crossed. :smile:

Since you mentioned you only came to astrology recently and previously doubted it, what changed your mind?
I would have never been typing this at 8:30pm on a Saturday if it weren't for a few crucial events. The first facing extreme anxiety while working for a cousin of mine who broke me down to the core completely. Relentless control, manipulation and violent outbursts among other crazy crazy aspects. It put me back to when I was a kid living with my step-father who would exhibit the same but would also punch holes in walls and break things in his extreme rage. Both are Virgo men. Also I drew the connection to my real father as well, who is Virgo. All of them very cutting to the point of cruelty especially to this sensitive man. So the realization that they were all Virgos made me research my relationship to them. I got my first natal chart reading in 06 I believe. Made the connections and put it away.

Secondly, in my last relationship I finally recognized the rose-colored glasses aspect as it had happened in all my relationships over the years. After about 3 months into a relationship the glasses come off and the rug comes out from under the relationship (you might want to ask him if this sounds familiar). This prompted me to consult the natal reading again. Of course there was the information confirmed in an astrological reading out of all places. This is after also having been to a psychologist as well.

I tried to ride the relationship out but there was just too much turmoil so I broke it off to try and figure out what was going on. Here I am. It's not pretty but I'm dealing with it. It could be worse as I'm expanding incredibly. I think I may have caught it in the nick of time as I would like to have a family. Maybe that's Jupiter in the 8th helping...

However, people in this thread mention the voices... Is it the soul that's speaking? Or is it the agony of riding the Quincunx? Are they the same? I'm not sure I'll ever be at peace in a relationship, and that for me it'll most likely be quite a bit of work and potentially detrimental to my health. I already have health issues I attribute to my Quincunxs. Will I get more if I reason that I should stay in a relationship? I guess we'll find out.



Yes, I can totally see that, and depending on how one figures up "power" of planets in a chart, Uranus is one of the more powerful planets he's got. By Astrodynes, it's Venus and Neptune (Uranus is actually down a ways), but by other forms of measuring planetary strength, he's Uranian to the hilt. Personally, I'd count Uranus as his most powerful planet rather than Venus-Neptune. Although that may be because I now him well, but am still "outside." He may experience more of the Venusian-Neptunian influence, as Neptune tends to express internally more (IME).
My strongest planet is my Moon. Thank god for that. Without it I don't think I would have been sensitive enough to feel what was going on. Mars is also strong in our charts because it's a singleton. Of course Sun Uranus is also strong. ****, I'd venture to say the whole thing is strong. I mean, it's built solid, like a house!

But he is by far the most Aquarian Libra I know. But I can still see the Libra in him clearly. Unfortunately, sometimes the Libra-Aquarius seems to be at war, at least when it comes to Libra's need to relate versus Aquarius's need to "keep it casual." Given his 11th house Sun-Uranus, a Sagittarian Venus, and his empty 7th house, it's not great surprise that he has a WIDE circle of "casual" friends, but relatively few close friends. Now, just to mess it up MORE, throw in Scorpio Rising, and I think he fights himself a LOT. Even though the Rising is more how others see YOU (than how you feel in yourself), it IS still part of how he relates -- and the fact mental Mercury (a personal planet) is in Scorpio, and rising, it makes the Scorpionic energy more than just a veneer.

Mentally, he wants to get to the root of things; emotionally, he wants to keep people at a distance, even while he seems to feel a wishful desire for marriage/a partner. It's like he can't make up his mind. :-)

Aside from the Scorpio, does that sort of friction seem true for you, as well?
Well, I have Mercury in Scorpio as well and it gets a Quincunx to my moon. Other than that, Merc is unaspected. With this chart pattern I think it's inevitable that you fight yourself quite a bit. I have Cancer rising so you can see how that is. I come across as nice, caring, a bit shy, innocent and sweet. People just have no idea what's going on underneath. No idea.



I'm not sure this pattern, with a Venus-Neptune conj. and the quincunx to Saturn, will be easy on anyone, but yet, throwing a moon opp in there just makes it MORE fun for him (not).

You mentioned the rose-colored glasses thing, and that reminds me of a conversation we had once about attraction. He said he tends to be attracted to someone initially ... or not at all. It goes into friendship, and that's it. He's never fallen in love (later) with a friend. I found that interesting, as I've known lots of people (including me) who've had that experience of being able to fall in love with a friend. Given his Sun-Uranus conjunction in Libra, I'd think he'd actually be MORE inclined to that than me, but looking at the Venus-Neptune in fiery (not airy) Sagittarius, maybe that's the issue for him. Although focusing on his Sun-Uranus conjunction in Libra (opposed to the moon or not), MIGHT be one way of handling the frustration for him of Venus-Neptune quincunx killer Saturn.
I think I can say that I've never really been in love before. He might be the same. I think I put such a high level to the love that I desire that I've never been able to achieve it. Alternately, I have fallen in love (lust probably more like it) with people that I've never been able to be with. Very yod like. For some reason the timing was wrong or the other person just didn't want a relationship with me.

Given that you have similar placements, if not the moon opp, what do you think? I know his lack of being able to maintain a relationship makes him depressed at times.
He has to "wake" up to his rose colored glasses phenomenon. Which can also be expressed possibly as the grass-is-greener-over-there phenomenon. The notion that he's trying to make his fantasy a reality. This will be an upheaval of sorts as he may think that nothing is really that wrong when things are certainly very wrong. It'll put him square into the challenge of his chart which is his karmic challenge and part of his soul evolution. This is exactly how you have to resolve Yods... by heading right into the apex!



You'll find that given birthtimes are rarely absolutely correct, and have to be "rectified." This is because not all hospitals note birthtimes, if the mother or father look at the clock, it's usually several minutes (at best) after the baby is born, and hospital clocks may be slightly late or slightly early. When my son was born, I immediately looked at the clock, but it was 2 minutes early, I found out. :-)

Anyway, you can sometimes rectify a chart by looking at houses near cusps, if you have them. For instance, I can get mine down to within a couple minutes because I know both my 5th and 6th/11th and 12th houses are in the same sign, but I also know my rising sign is Pisces, not Aquarius. In addition, as Saturn passed over my Asc for the first time, I fell on some ice and broke my ankle (Saturn-bones/Pisces-feet). Saturn can be helpful because those transits can have very *literal* fallout.

So you'll probably find you have to adjust your chart, but there are tricks to doing so. :-)
Thank you. I have played around a bit with it. I think I have it pretty accurate right now. We'll see.


Yes, I think that's right. Because quincunxes aren't part of the traditional Ptolemaic aspects, they tend to get overlooked. I believe the yod is finally starting to be recognized as an important pattern, and I'm seeing more books discuss the effects of the quincunx in aspect descriptions. I've been paying more attention to quincunxes *in transit*, too. It can be hard to get reports of transits that include the quincunx. I like Astrodienst in general, but they don't include the quincunx on transit reports. iVillage Astrology.com does, however. So getting both reports is useful.
Do you know of any good software that I should get? I'm ideally looking for one that animates the transits and will automatically highlight aspects as it progresses. One that you may be able to somehow "roll" forwards and backwards to see how and when transits form aspects.



Ironically, I've seen him kick-starting his career a little more lately, too. :-) He's been rather passive about it for the past 5 years or so, although some of his colleagues/friends and former profs keep trying to prod him into doing more. Now he seems to be moving forward again, and yes, I think Jupiter is helping that, as it's approaching his Mars. (Mars was retro when you were both born, to Jup hits your Mars first.)

Another transit coming up for all of you with this pattern that should probably be looked at ... Uranus opposed to Pluto and squaring Saturn. That's going to form a T-Square. The Saturn-Pluto square in your chart is TIGHT, so Uranus is going to hit both *at once*. Watch out for that. Uranus is the Great Up-setter, and particularly doesn't get on well with Saturn! With a T-Square, look to the EMPTY side to find a focus. The energy sometimes explodes out towards the empty house/sign. That's 4-degrees Capricorn, so look there. ALSO, if you have *short-term* transits of the personal planets hitting that trigger spot, pay attention, because they can set off events the exemplify the stress of the Transiting T-Square. Given all that stressful energy, be careful. Thankfully, Mars is a long way away, and not likely to reach the trigger point before it's over. Sun, Venus, and Mercury (and the Moon) will probably hit it, but I haven't checked an ephemeris.
Ok thanks for the heads up. Hopefully I'll have some good software that I can arm myself with so I can prepare. We've also had T Pluto in opp natal Saturn and square natal Pluto. T Uranus has been conjunct my MC on top of all of this...

Edit: I just did check the ephemeris, and actually the worst hit by this will be about a year from now, and especially around the 24-27 of December 2012, when the Sun will be in the critical degrees of Capricorn around 4. Now, the moon will hit those degrees a couple times during the T-Uranus T-Square stretch, but while the moon can be a trigger, it's look more at the other personal planets. I didn't look forward into 2013, however. Keep in mind, most transits hit three times (maybe 4). It's the retro hit that (ime) can cause the real jolt. The first run over it is like priming the pump (that'll be Febuary-ish of 2012). Then the retro hits, knocks everything askew, and the last pass ends it. The Retro-Final pass of the Uranus T-Square will more or less be continual, as retro Uranus doesn't pass out of orb before it turns direct. So look for that to be a key upcoming transit for those with this configuration, sitting the "house" spinning. If you know it's coming, you can be ready.
Thanks for all of this. I really appreciate all of the feedback and the amount of detail you put into these posts. I've felt that I've transformed quite a bit just by explaining (or trying to) how I feel and some of what I've gone through to get to where I am now (it's just the tip of the iceberg). It has helped to look at the charts somewhat but I'm not that good at astrology yet so I'm sure I'll learn more.

I suppose these posts should really be in the pentagram thread. Since they deal with yods it's probably good that they're here anyway. I'll add a link in the other thread.

What's interesting to note is that a lot of these yod folk in this thread are no longer around on this forum (in the pentagram one too). Wonder if they all solved their yods or gave up?

[Kenoshamaensa]

Between holiday and busy week after, I seem to have accidentally "lost" these in my inbox. *chagrined look* Combining for simplicity. Also, from a stray comment, I'm guessing you're male? It's not always evident from names, but I find that additionally useful for reading my friend's chart. (For the record, I'm female, although it's less important as I don't share the same pattern.)

Also, stick a link to your chart in your signature (see my sig for an example), to make it easy for members to access. A lot of us do that, so taking a quick reminder-look is easy. I keep having to scroll up to find your chart again. :-)

Side note: I do find the HOUSE differences really interesting, between charts. Same/similar patterns, but different houses in which they express!

I'm the same way (minus the moon opposition here). I've always thought that I would get married. However, it's as if it's in a dream state, like it's not very tangible. It just floats in my mind somewhere to be fantasized about and built upon... refined...

VERY interesting, as I think you just described my buddy. Ha. In fact, it seems like, in the last year that I've known him, he's gone from that sort of nebulous, "When I get married," to "I'm never going to get married" ... and NEITHER seems (to me) all that grounded in REALITY. Sometimes I want to shake him and say, "Well, if you really WANT to get married, then you need to do ..." :-D (The "need" mostly boils down to learning to live with another person and her needs.)

Saturn and Mars retrograde are tough for sex. My Saturn apex yod is largely hidden in my 12th so I might be fortunate in a sense that I don't exhibit the Saturn influence that he does.

Wow, ok so I'm definitely not in this boat. This is intense and he needs to check into his chart asap. With a girlfriend of over 6 months and sex only once?? OMG! I can't believe that he's not tripping more and doing some more introspection.

Ha. It's hard for me to say what introspection he does privately, but my sense is that he works himself into EXHAUSTION to avoid thinking too much. He works 60+ hours a week. I find that tiring even *thinking* about. But it keeps him from having "a life" (or thinking too much), even if one of his jobs is, he says, kept because it doesn't *require* much thought, and he can plan lectures, etc., while stacking lemons and avocados. But yes, I think his 8th house Saturn is ALL about sexual control. I also have Saturn in my12th, albeit sitting RIGHT on my Asc (conj. from 12th). "Technically," I'm told that should read like a 1st house Saturn ... but it doesn't -- not entirely. Planets belong to the house they're IN ... cusp or not. And houses belong to the sign they're in, cusp or not. Yes, first or anaretic degrees matter, but it's wrong to read TOO much into them. I speak as one with a couple "cusp" planets and houses.

My Saturn is conjunct the Asc ... but it's NOT a 1st house Saturn. And there's a difference, ime. I experience Saturn more "softly" than many with a true 1st house Saturn. It probably helps that Saturn is in it's traditional sign, Aquarius, and in the anaretic degree, which serves "Father Time" well, but that's not all of it. I'm just a 12th house Saturn.

I can definitely relate to the emotional contact not being enough. This is Venus Neptune conj. We're seeking something more. Something beyond. We're seeking a love that ties across the whole spectrum from the spirit, intellect, emotions and physical. The only connection that is this perfect is the divine. Until this man realizes the incredible rose colored glasses he's wearing he will keep making the same mistakes. For us this life is about learning about imperfection and embracing human tendencies or... merge with the divine and renounce altogether... Very Yod-like, no?? I can pretty much guarantee you that once he realizes his years of wearing those rose tinted glasses, that becoming spiritual is right around the corner. He has to. In order for him to find a partner that he can possibly connect with he has to start there. He's looking for a pure connection. If the spirituality isn't aligned it wont work. That is usually one of the more difficult things to find out quickly in a relationship also.

And this is one of the things I believe the yod formation, with its quincunxes, makes more difficult. It's abrasive, not confrontative. He, I and his sister went to hear a talk the other night, given by a survivor of the Rawandan genocide. Interesting talk. But I could almost SEE him pull back any time this fellow spoke about his spiritual/emotional growth. After the talk was over, he said he found most of the follow-up questions "ridiculous" and "impossible to answer," when they struck me and his sister as just typical questions. Yes, they're hard to answer, but not impossible. One of the more interesting, I thought, was a young man who asked the survivor what had given him the strength to continue. Both I and my buddy's sister had thought it an interesting question, but he ... it's hard to describe. He resisted it. He seemed to be distancing himself from the emotional. He said he actually liked how this guy had been almost bland in his descriptions: he just laid it out there. To me, that's NOT a good thing. It's a sign of emotional disconnection, or "I've told the story so many times, it's stopped having meaning for me." I've noticed before that he BACKpeddles from emotional involvement. "Keep it casual" is the rule. Maybe that's a guy thing, but it's an EXTREME manifestation. (By contrast, at other points, he says things that suggests he feels very deeply, and is a little alarmed by that.) He likes to intellectualize. He doesn't want to feel.

Regarding the online p*rn with mars retrograde in taurus combined with the fact that he only had sex with with his ex once, I'd say that there's some sexual issues there. It also, once again, points to Ven Nep and the fantasy. I exhibit some of this :surprised: so I'm aware. It's like it's so much easier and often better to just fantasize about it. Why? Cause it's perfect every time!! You can make it what you want. There are no odors, no weird comments, no issues at all. Easy... but dysfunctional. There could be more to it also.

Quite likely. Note the comment above about his attempt to disconnect from feeling situations. He wants to feel ... doesn't want to feel. I can't explain it. It's like he's schizoid. *grin*

Yes, it's about control. Never losing control which I think is a fight with a chart like this. We always feel out of control so we struggle to control what we can. Plus, being intimate is very difficult because you have to open up and release the control.

Exactly.

I can relate to some of this but not to this extent. I can be a little gullible. Especially when I was younger. I think that was because I tend to place people on pedestals, initially, out of respect. I know one of the quincunx aspects point to going overboard for people then being frustrated they don't give back. It's made me more cautious now which is bittersweet. This relates to what I mentioned above; the desire to connect deeply (at least for me). I've found my depth becoming expansive as I've matured but I allow very few to those depths. Generally I'm hurt by most people.

That makes a certain amount of sense. He was very cautious with me at first, "elevating" me. This was a function of several things, not least that I have a higher academic degree, I'm a little older, and have a full faculty position. I never really saw the difference -- we get along absurdly well; I call him my "brain twin" -- but I do understand why he elevated me. (I had the luxury of not caring because I was operating from the higher status position.)

That's altered a LOT in the last year or so; we've finally become more equal. For instance, he swears more comfortably around me now. *grin* Seems like a strange marker, but it's not. He rarely swore around me at first, and even now, hardly has a "potty mouth," but he has no hesitation at dropping the F-bomb when it's appropriate. He's become more "real." I always saw us as equals, but I think he finally does, as well.

But the counterbalance to that is the "shine" has worn off me. He's still oddly protective of me, but I don't sit on a pedestal the same. Not sure if that means he no longer respects me. Example of the protective: the other night, we were out with friends, one of whom is a grad student who's getting quite arrogant lately and will argue with anybody, even those who know more than she does. She was pontificating and trying to show off what she knew, interrupting everyone. But it was only when she was interrupting me that he actually intervened to say "Shhh" and "stop" and "shut up and listen." He doesn't protect anybody else like that, but we're long-time friends, and it's an example of the sort of unconscious "come to my friend's defense" that he offers uniquely to me. He's sometimes annoyingly ... self-absorbed. But if I ask him for help, he'll usually give it. He won't open a door for me, or pull out a chair (and honestly, I don't really care), but he'll defend me or assist me in smaller ways he doesn't give to most others.

Ironcally, I'm not sure if this is an example of (still) putting me on a pedestal or, conversely, no longer seeing me on it and deciding I need him to be my bulwark (the "let down" you mentioned).

Or something else entirely.

Ok, I'm similar here as well in some ways. I have so many stories about this, lol, I don't even know where to start! I used to feel that I had to go out cause it was the thing to do. Although I knew that I shouldn't go out. I would get talked into going out and usually finding that I wasn't having fun. I rarely have fun when I go to parties or events. Maybe it has to do with that connection thing. I'd also rather spend time with people one-on-one or in a smaller group.

These days I don't go out much at all. I've become increasingly reclusive, attempting to reconfigure my life. It seems I am starting something new altogether and I'm largely avoiding most of my friends because most of them drain me anyway. I feel a deep need to change, to expand. This might just be me, in this case, as Uranus is currently transiting my MC. Also the Jupiter transiting Mars has fueled some of this too. It's for the better as I'm evolving exponentially at this point.

Interesting. He did this in May/June of this year. He withdrew almost entirely for about 6 weeks. Read a TON, and just ... didn't interact with anybody. We were worried about him! I'm an introvert too. (One of several things we share.) But even I go a little stir crazy after too many days in a row with NO (real) human interaction. I'm very adept at entertaining myself, but there are limits. And I do get the desire sometimes to just hang with a handful of people, so you can devote your full attention to them, but life still demands group interaction at times.

Anyway, I wish I had a better grasp on what's going on in his head, but he "turtles" at times -- just doesn't talk with work as an excuse. But that's what friends (and family) are for -- to be a sounding board. Any thoughts from your experience on how to invite him to share more of what's going on in his head? He does tell me (and his sister) a lot, but it's periodic.

Interesting that he's such a competitor. Mars retrograde is usually opposite. Not very competitive or at least not outwardly. I'm a little surprised to hear he actually played on a team as I know other Mars retrograde in taurus that just did the solo activity thing. Maybe it's a house thing or something that he just grew beyond.

Honestly, this is less a reflection of his Mars placement than his MOON. It's one thing we share. My moon and his are conjunct in Aries. Our moods are typically similar, and I "get" him ("grok" him, if you're familiar with the slang). An Aries moon is HIGHLY competitive. Furthermore, his is in his FIFTH house, of sports (romance, play, etc.). He's very athletic, very competitive. But an expression of the TAURUS Mars is that, when playing hockey, he played DEFENSE ... and was really good at it. Good as in winning awards from his team for it, and being elected captain more than once. So yes, he's competitive, but there's a BIG difference between competitive "aggression" and competitive "protection." He's a protector. Notice what I said above about him "protecting" me. I learned a LONG time ago that if I "beg a favor" he starts equivocating (Sun-Uranus independent streak!), but if I say, "I need your help" he's, "What's the problem?" :-) (I do try to use my recognition of that *wisely* and not take advantage of him.) But he is a staunch defender of those weaker than him, if he thinks it justified. I have NO doubt he'd lay down his life to protect a friend or family member. He could never be military; he's too independent. But he has the same impulse to protect/defend what he cares about. I find it interesting that he has a soft spot for pit bulls (a horribly misunderstood breed), and adopted one as *his first dog* ... and can make Titan obey him like an old pro. He is Alpha Dog, no question. But not from aggression. It's pure strength. He'd be a born leader if he were less bohemian. :-) By contrast, I actually am a leader, and comfortable in it ... but I can't be alpha dog like he can. Our modi operandi are similar but different. What's the difference (for your astrological education)? I have both Mars and Venus in LEO, 6th house. He has a 6th house Mars, but in Taurus, and a 1st house Sagi Venus. Both are fire-sign Venus, but Leo, note, is the "noble/king" of the zodiac. Leos LOVE attention ... but also love to *give* it. They are natural leaders, so if one has lights or personal planets in Leo, it lends a certain flavor to the chart. Both you and he are empty in Leo.

But in short, his competitiveness and sports athleticism owes to the Aries Moon in his 5th house. Mars-Saturn sextile lends skill, and Mercury Rising lends great dexterity, even if Mercury is opposed to Mars. Additionally, he's got a 6th house Mars, which is often a sign of physical vitality. (I've got the same, plus Venus there, which just doubles the effect. My Mars and Sun are sextile, which is where my own athleticism comes from ... so several different aspects can lend similar skills.)

I think I share some of this as well. I'm selfish about my time and where I spend it. I can become very impatient and irritated when I don't feel I'm spending my time right (Sun Uranus).

Yeah, it's about where we're spending our time. We have to watch that carefully. It's easy to not put in the work necessary or have a plan. I think I just nailed it there. It's about the plan and being regimented to that. That's what North Node Capricorn requires. I think the Ven Nep and Sun Ur are keeping us from that. A detailed and regimented plan is necessary. Also, the rose colored glasses have to come off otherwise he's still in DanLand.

Ha. Yes. I and another friend tease him about being anal, or (as Kim says) OCD. He makes lists on his phone of things he needs to get done. OTOH, I "get it." I tend to be a planner (another reason we get along), but OTOH, he goes overboard. Back to the working 60+ hours ... it gives him an excuse not to have a life ... and requires him to make these lists in order to keep up. ALL of it is a way of disconnecting from human interaction.

You might have to try. Has he seen his chart? You may be able to explain it as being slightly star-crossed. :smile:

Ha. He has not seen his chart. He doesn't even know I do astrology. *I* got into it when I was studying ancient Persian and Greek astrology, and with my Mercury-Pluto conjunction ... (as in they're EXACT ... as in .01 degree difference) and Uranus in the mix (not AS exact), when I tackle a subject, I LEARN it, and I have a very open mind. IMO, to have an open mind means to have an OPEN mind. There are "science" fundamentalists like there are religious fundamentalists. It's really the same basic MINDset, although those on either side would be appalled to be equated. ;> Nonetheless. I'm rational, but that means being fair. In my study of ancient astrology, I looked into modern astrology, met several modern astrologers, discovered that natal charts are uncanny, and decided that there is something to it. No, it may not make "scientific" sense outwardly. But AS an ancient historian, I see it within perspective. For instance, ancient Greeks knew that if you poured wine and oil on a wound, it helped in the healing. They didn't know WHY -- they had no knowledge of microscopic bacteria infecting the wound -- but they UNDERSTOOD that it worked. Same with astrology. I don't think we yet know why it works. I don't buy a lot of the metaphysics behind it. It sounds like a modern version of balancing humors in the body. Nonsense. But natal astrology works. So an OPEN mind means recognizing that.

BUT while he's not a science-fundamentalist (like another friend of ours) he's hyper-rational and religious-hostile (he was raised Catholic and rebelled). And while I hate to say it, I've found it to be true that many men dismiss women's belief in "non-scientific" things as "emotional" and "irrational" and *ridiculous*. Not all men, but enough do that sometimes women just keep their mouths shut. *grin* I HAVE talked to him before about some of my experiences and he listened (politely) but didn't buy it. He wasn't dismissive, but he also wasn't ... open. I had a near-death experience at 23 that convinced me we are more than the physical, and I no longer fear death. I've shared it with him. He was not rude or dismissive exactly, but it didn't move him at all from his own beliefs (or lack thereof). He's very much an agnostic. He's fair enough to avoid hyper science-rationalism/atheism. But he has no spiritual experiences, and so doubts the existence of a soul, etc. -- even when his best friend tells him one exists. :-)

But that IS existential knowledge. I can't *give* him what I experienced, just tell him. And that can't be "proven" *because* it's existential. So he won't deny it, but he also won't accept it. That's why I haven't shown him his chart. If the right situation comes, I may try, but it hasn't come up yet.

Also ... thanks for the recounting of how you came to be interested. That's helpful. I don't think he's (yet) undergone the same "kick you in the *ss" situations, to make him ready to hear. He's still able to make his life (mostly) go along. He's not happy, but he hasn't had the rug yanked out from under him. I honestly think that may be what it takes. As long as he can MANAGE his life, there's not a strong impetus to re-examine his assumptions. He is trying to effect changes, but they're not radical changes, and he's still operating from the same basic assumptions and belief systems.

But again, this is where houses and slight differences between charts can yield really notable differences in how those charts *express*.

Well, I have Mercury in Scorpio as well and it gets a Quincunx to my moon. Other than that, Merc is unaspected. With this chart pattern I think it's inevitable that you fight yourself quite a bit. I have Cancer rising so you can see how that is. I come across as nice, caring, a bit shy, innocent and sweet. People just have no idea what's going on underneath. No idea.

I think this is often true for Water Rising. My own rising is Pisces, which may be the most outwardly emotional. Cancer is gentle and motherly, Scorpio is "ice" and passion at once, Pisces is dreamy and visionary. My ex-husband was Cancer rising, Libra sun, Aries moon ... with the SAME birthday (several years earlier) to my (now) best (male) friend, who's Libra sun, Aries moon ... Scorpio rising. And I'm Libra Sun, Aries Moon, Pisces Rising. Ha. All of this describes synastry quite well ... which functions both romantically and relationally (friends and family).

But I think those with prominent water in the Lights (Sun/Moon) or Rising often have more going on under the surface than it seems.

I think I can say that I've never really been in love before. He might be the same. I think I put such a high level to the love that I desire that I've never been able to achieve it. Alternately, I have fallen in love (lust probably more like it) with people that I've never been able to be with. Very yod like. For some reason the timing was wrong or the other person just didn't want a relationship with me.

Quite possibly. I'll have to ask him sometime if he thinks he's ever really been in love. He picks ... weird partners. Women he needs to "fix" or "save." By contrast, he seems blind to the interest of others. We (his colleagues) kid him that he has a "fanclub" among students and a "harem" of young undergrad girls who flirt shamelessly with him ... AND HE DOESN'T SEE IT. It's weird. He absolutely does NOT take advantage of nor encourage them. I don't think he knows HOW to flirt; he's a total failure at it. But he's very magnetic to these girls. They try SO HARD ... and he just doesn't see it. Literally does not SEE it. His friends point it out and he tries to deny it. It's weird. We want to thwap him upside the head with a 2x4!

Do you know of any good software that I should get? I'm ideally looking for one that animates the transits and will automatically highlight aspects as it progresses. One that you may be able to somehow "roll" forwards and backwards to see how and when transits form aspects.

That, I don't ... not current software. I'm cheap, so I tend to use Astrodeinst's charts, particularly the "Extended Chart Selection" option, which allows LOTS of charts, plus asteroids, etc. Unfortunately, some charts don't have transit options that I wish did. But then I just consult an ephemeris.

[Alice McDermott]

Do you know of any good software that I should get? I'm ideally looking for one that animates the transits and will automatically highlight aspects as it progresses. One that you may be able to somehow "roll" forwards and backwards to see how and when transits form aspects.


Solar Fire has a wonderful 'animate' section, where you can move the chart around seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months and years. You can easily see the transits forming, exact and separating. You can also animate a biwheel, put your natal chart in the inner wheel and the transit chart on the outside and then move the transit chart forward or backward.

You can do the same thing with progressions and directions.

I think this is one of the best features of the program.

Alice

[StillOne]

Solar Fire has a wonderful 'animate' section, where you can move the chart around seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months and years. You can easily see the transits forming, exact and separating. You can also animate a biwheel, put your natal chart in the inner wheel and the transit chart on the outside and then move the transit chart forward or backward.

You can do the same thing with progressions and directions.

I think this is one of the best features of the program.

Alice

Thank you so much for the recommendation!