Alien Horary!

[Catatonia]

I need someone to cast this chart for me pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease

Question: Is the US government in contact with aliens/beings from another planet or world?

January 24th, 2008 at 1:01PM in Brooklyn, NY

[Arian Maverick]

Oh, this is a good one! :D

I hope you don't mind if I upload the chart:

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u6/firebirdsuite/Astrology%20Weekly%20Forums/USGovernmentinContactwithAliens-Hor.gif

Arian Maverick

P.S. Please tell me if I picked the wrong location for this chart; I didn't know which county you are in so I simply selected the first one.

[Derestanne]

Arian Maverick,

Thank You! It's a total, unconditional, flat out, dead giveaway!!!

[Arian Maverick]

Which house would we use to represent the United States--the first house because the country in question is the querent's homeland or the tenth house because it rules "The government or those in office"? I'm leaning towards the tenth house; according to Skyscript, the first house would be used more in "questions regarding war" because the querent "identif[ies] with the concerns of their country when the question is expressed."

Would the aliens be signified by the ninth house then, since they are foreign not just to this country, but to this planet? Could the twelfth house be used because aliens are a great unknown, just as witchcraft was regarded with suspicion?

Interestingly, the ninth house is the twelfth house from the tenth, which could indicate secrets of the government. Both houses are ruled by Saturn, so would we use the almuten, perhaps? If this is so, which house gets the normal ruler and which gets the almuten?

Arian Maverick

[tikana]

Arian

US is 10th house
aliens are 9th

no we are not in contact with them .. our lousy cellphone networks dont work well. how do you expect us to be calling ET?

on a serious thought, i dont believe we have.. we might have picked up on something but i dont think itis anything tangable

T

[Arian Maverick]

Does the chart indicate this, tikana? You can read them much better than I can...

How would we distinguish between the ruler of the tenth and the ruler of the ninth? I'm thinking that "contact" would equate to an aspect, but what type of aspect should we be looking for, exactly? And it must be important whether this aspect is applying or separating; would an applying aspect mean that contact has not occurred but will occur and a separate aspect indicate that contact has occurred? How could we tell if contact is still occurring?

Arian Maverick

P.S. I agree with the lousy cellphone networks, although I don't think those would stop any aliens! :38:

[tikana]

Arian

YEAH

Saturn rules both!
meaning that someone is feeling insecure

moon conj saturn! saturn retro meaning trying again! meanng that there has been a contact before

I'd say YEAH

Tik

[Catatonia]

Thanks for the chart Arian. I say we use the 10th for the gov't and 9th for the aliens. We could also use the 7th as the 'other party' (perhaps, not sure) or we could always do a 3rd house "is the rumor true?"

With the MC in the 9th, we can say the 9th house matters have to do with the 10th (duh)

Cat

[Derestanne]

How about this -

11 Degrees Gemini Ascendant with Mars in the first. This is like Joan Rivers on methamphetamines! (no offense intended). It's been nonstop communication! It's vast libraries of data stored in computers that has been collected for decades! Mars is the Military trying to keep a big lid of secrecy on the entire matter.

Jupiter in the 8th represents all of the secrets being kept on the subject. It also says to me that "We The People" (Jupiter) are going to crack and penetrate the secrecy eventually.

Government? Look to Saturn. It's in the 4th House here, representing Earth Itself and all "Domestic Interests". The moon conjuncting Saturn reminds us that it is supposed to be government "Of, By and For the People".

The 7th House represents our secret alliance and affiliation with the Aliens. If no such alliance and partnership existed, then the 7th House would be empty!!! The Mars - Pluto opposition between 1st and 7th demonstrates the Aliens are mostly opposed to the Government's Militaristic Acts and Intentions. It also says the real knowledge and power belongs to the Aliens, hence the Venus - Pluto conjunction.

Yes, the 9th House are the Aliens themselves and that is why Chiron in Aquarius is there. The Aliens are attempting to bring the full promise of the Aquarian Age to those who are able to understand them (9th House - philosophy; higher education). It means that they are a more advanced civilization, they are older and wiser heads and they have plenty to teach us. The Trine of Chiron to Ascendant means that eventually we will appreciate that our future is going to be influenced and shaped by their wisdom.

[4leafclovah]

Derestanne, I like your take on this. I hope its true;)

[Catatonia]

message deleted

[Radu]

Catatonia: your last message suggests that you're using another chart, possibly erroneous.

I'm a taker also. I thrive for such questions...

Aliens are associated in my experience with out of bound planets, those whose declination is greater than 23.5.
Looking on the chart, the only oob planet is Mars in the 1st house.

As pointed out previously, the quesited houses are the 10th and the 9th. We do need different significators for the US government and the aliens, so we may use house almutems. The 9th house almutem is Mars (ruler of the term and exalation), so Mars will correctly represent the aliens, the 10th house almutem is Saturn, which will represent the US gov.

I see no major aspect between Mars and Saturn, which would represent the testimony of a physical contact between the government and the aliens. [see the end of the post for more]

But the problem is complex:

MARS
- Mars in the 1st house could suggest also that "they are here" but they are "not in contact" with the government
- Mars is retrograde = they didn't pursue contacts with us for some time, but Mars will soon switch to direct motion, so the aliens will come more in spotlight in the future
- Mars is in Gemini, a double sign = there are several kinds of aliens

THE MOON
- the Moon is besieged = located between two reputed malefics, so there is some really nasty thing going on; Derestanne I can't share your optimistic views on the chart: both main significators are the malefics;
- the Moon translates the light from Venus (12th house ruler, the unknown, secret organizations or situations) to Saturn (10th house ruler, the US government) = something/somebody occult/hidden recently contacted the government
- both the Moon and Venus recently changed signs, after having a hard aspect with Mars = the hidden/occult organization had a conflict with the aliens, then contacted the US government

Possibly the key to this horary chart is:
- Mercury disposes both main significators [the intellect, the mind]
- Mars and Saturn are separating quintile aspect
Quintile is a minor aspect associated with a subtle influence, magical and creative.
I take it that the aliens have been in past distance contact with the US government. Mercury in Aquarius suggests some form of advanced technological communication system. How about some form of mental contact (given Mercury's recent conjunction with Neptune)?
As Mars will soon slow down, stop and turn around and Saturn will go backwards, the quintile aspect will be reinforced, so the contact will be renewed.

Edit: Mars' antiscion (hidden reflection) is at 05Can40 awaiting to get in sextile with the Moon = also suggest future, not past contact
So, it could mean that so far they have been in distant communication, which will continue, but there will also be a more close/physical contact with the aliens, but hidden, unknown to the public.

Nice SF movie.

http://www.swapmeetdave.com/Humor/Cats/Aliens.jpg

[Moulin]

yes yes yes

In fact l once came across a vast expanse of land in the middle of Arizona which was fenced off with WARNING! GOVERNMENT PROPERTY written on all the fences.

the photographer l was with said "what the hell is this - it's not on any map!"
I remember saying "that's where they analyse and dissect Aliens"
He thought l was joking but l wasn't... when l psychically linked in that is what l saw.

PLUS in Scotland, UK there is a base where they even have the remains of a crashed spaceship but you didn't hear that from me!!!! :60:

ok gotta run... all my kids are ill at moment so no time to talk aliens ;)

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

I think the easiest way to do this instead of bickering of which house rules what is just to take Catatonia's idea of "is the rumor true..."

The first thing to check for is Fixed Angles vs. Mutable Angles. Fixed angles suggest a true rumor, Mutable suggest a false rumor. Unfortunatley, we've got it half and half here, so that's no help at all.

Another thing is Mercury, and being in a Fixed Sign and in an angular house suggests a truth to the rumor, I'm not sure how much we can trust him since he's conjoined with Neptune. Looking to his dispositor, Saturn is not happy while being retrograde in Virgo, which suggests falsity to the rumor.

Luna as the ruler of the Third positioned in a state of no essential dignity and then conjoined with Saturn doesn't look good for the rumor either, again suggesting falsity. Luna's dispositor is Mercury, and round and round we go.

Interestingly, Saturn being in Trine to Jupiter and Luna being in Trine to Venus gives some truth to the rumor accidentally, but I wonder just how much truth is there considering neither benefic is really happy in Capricorn.

Food for thought.

On a side note...

I wonder if any of you can throw away the ridiculous modern concept that the houses are associated with signs. You all are just annoying me..mmmkayyyy

...

The 8th house is the house of all which is taboo..in the old times that would signify sexual behavior, violent acts, crimes, lies..etc

In all fairness, that's one egg on your face...

[Culpeper]

This looks like a good chart, but can it be evaluated as a rumor? Lilly gives many ways to judge if a rumor is true or false, yet in this chart they seem to be conflicting, and I cannot be certain, but will give an edge to the rumor being true.

Recently UFOs were reported in Texas. Ten intercepters were scrambled, and reports had them chasing the unusual lights. This does not sound very friendly, so perhaps a war chart delineation will work; I will use Lilly's method.

Give the ascendant to the USA, its ruler Mercury, and the Moon. The aliens have the seventh house, its ruler Jupiter, and the planet the Moon is applying to, Saturn. Mercury and Saturn are in mutual reception by rulership; Jupiter and Mercury are in reception by term; the Moon is applying by trine aspect to Jupiter(but will contact Saturn first); Yes, the USA and aliens have contact, but it may be hostile. Mars in the ascendant and Venus in the seventh house give the victory to the aliens.

It may be that since Mars and Mercury are about to turn away from each other before completing their trine aspect, that all out war will be avoided. Or maybe I am looking at that wrong. Anyway don't let this keep you awake at night.

[tikana]

Culpeper,

there is no doubt that something is going on/another intelligent life is out there.. in 1999, there were 125 billion galaxies in the universe known.. This is before the Hubble telescope was launched. They found another 3,000. The data is outdated *nasa*

UFO = unidentified flying object .. does it mean that everytime there is something it is an alien? probably not BUT if you look through history before people could fly, there have been numerous reports of flying objects. There is one painting from 13th century it was done in black and white print, if you look closer, you can see some kind of flying object in the sky. Ancient Egyptians had carved unusual events that happend in the sky, which is loosely described an UFO.

so we are the only people who live in such vast universe? that is a bit obsurd, dont you think? Our universe is +/- 13 billion years old. So let's say, there has to be a world with more advanced technology than ours. We havent reached Pluto how can we know *confirm/deny* other worlds. logically, it is a bit again obsurd.

Regarding the scamblers and etc, i know one thing even engeneers at military airplane building bases do not have all clearances. One group sits in 1 section, another in another and no one hardly talks to the other group. I am sure there are airbases where experimental airplanes are being built.. Should we know about them? sure. Will we ever know what is going on? Probably not. why? a fear breach of the US security. People were treating Stealth as a UFO for a longtime until the US unveiled the hidden bird.

I dont think it is only the US that has a contact with UFOs. USSR put billions on UFO research and new Russia does exactly the same

Only now we realized that there is Kuiper belt. We didnt know about it!

Cheers
T

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

Personally, I think it's one thing to assume there are other planetary systems out there (Okay, this is proven fact).

It's another thing to assume that there is life somewhere else out there in the universe on one of these planets way out there orbiting some alien star.

It's another thing completely to assume that this life is intelligent and somewhat like the forms of life that have developed on Earth.

However, it's a completely different can of worms to assume that there's life on another planet out there that is intelligent enough to build ships to fly around super fast and explore the entirety of the universe AND know that we exist here on Earth.

I think that there is life on other planets, but if it is intelligent, they are just as oblivious to us as we are to them. Yes, thinking this way does help me sleep at night. :)

[tikana]

Kai

of course.. i cannot agree more

but dont you wonder when you look up in the sky "are we really alone?"

this is a good chart and Radu's explanation is excellent.

T

[Moulin]

LOL

cannot disagree more if l tried to...

sorry.
I will try to post again but my kids are ill at moment... only watching this thread as it is a subject matter close to my heart.

Personally, I think it's one thing to assume there are other planetary systems out there (Okay, this is proven fact).

It's another thing to assume that there is life somewhere else out there in the universe on one of these planets way out there orbiting some alien star.

It's another thing completely to assume that this life is intelligent and somewhat like the forms of life that have developed on Earth.

However, it's a completely different can of worms to assume that there's life on another planet out there that is intelligent enough to build ships to fly around super fast and explore the entirety of the universe AND know that we exist here on Earth.

I think that there is life on other planets, but if it is intelligent, they are just as oblivious to us as we are to them. Yes, thinking this way does help me sleep at night. :)

[Catatonia]

In all fairness, that's one egg on your face...

I don't think that's any way to talk about my face

here's the deal. simply because you all study modern astrology doesn't mean i've had my share of it and opted to move forward with more ancient methods

if you'd take some time to evaluate the method, or at least accept it as the one I use, then we'd all be fine and dandy

In my horary I don't associate houses with signs, that's the way I read them and it will be the way I read them in the future.. if you don't agree that is your respectful opinion

out

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

Tik, I think everyone thinks that every once and awhile. It's probably just a basic human thing. "Space is so big, there's got to be something else out there."

Catatonia, the point was you made a slightly rude comment about someone's usage of the houses, and then in an attempt to correct their error you showed your own ignorance which resulted in an egg on your face. The Eighth having to do with 'taboo' and sex and lies and all that is definately modern astrology.

[Catatonia]

message deleted

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

Don't let Neptune get to you.

The 8th house is the house of all which is taboo..in the old times that would signify sexual behavior, violent acts, crimes, lies..etc

To me, it's like saying "Psh, you don't know math! 2+2 is 5!" If you're going to berate someone about their usage of houses, you could at least get your example correct. Which leads back to the 'egg on your face' comment and round and round we go.

[Radu]

Ok, guys, stick to the thread.
Any more comments on the alien horary chart?

[Moulin]

peace and love people :)

[Catatonia]

Don't let Neptune get to you.

To me, it's like saying "Psh, you don't know math! 2+2 is 5!" If you're going to berate someone about their usage of houses, you could at least get your example correct. Which leads back to the 'egg on your face' comment and round and round we go.

I did...and 2+2 = 5 has nothing to do with it. I use the ancient system of astrology and that's what the 8th house is in that system.

[tikana]

Ok, guys, stick to the thread.
Any more comments on the alien horary chart?

Radu

would you have an open mind of using 3rd house as well for neighboring galaxies for locating other life?


cheers
T

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

Yeah, I apologize, Radu. I'm done though. I just thought it was funny that she berates someone about using houses incorrectly and then goes and does it herself, but I'm done. Back to the alien horary.

Tikana, I know your question was posed for Radu, but I want to comment on it. I think that's a little...extreme, but utlimately I guess it comes down to who or what the First house is. If the First house was our galaxy, then MAYBE it could be seen that way, but otherwise I would think other galaxies would be the Ninth house. As you obviously know the Ninth is the house of foreign junk, and using the United States as a reference our neighbors are Mexico and Canada, but they're still considered Ninth house objects to us.

Culpeper, I got to thinking a little bit ago about the war chart. I thought I read somewhere that the Tenth is the attacking 'kingdom' and the Fourth is the 'kingdom' besieged? Did I misunderstand something or just make that up?

[Radu]

Culpeper: interesting approach. The philosophy behind it seems to be more like "us" (humans) against "them" (aliens). I feel that it was Catatonia's intention to ask specifically about the US government [and not other foreign governments, or humankind in general].

Tik: that would be an interesting path to explore. Theoretically, you could try to locate the aliens origin, using a horary chart, IF the question was specifically targeted to that. In this case, the horary chart has another purpose and will not offer more details. It all depends on the question.

[Radu]

Culpeper, I got to thinking a little bit ago about the war chart. I thought I read somewhere that the Tenth is the attacking 'kingdom' and the Fourth is the 'kingdom' besieged? Did I misunderstand something or just make that up?
This is a good idea. I read about the theory you're referring to in sports astrology, appliable in analyzing sports event charts where a team/sportman defends the title and the other is the challenger, such as in professional boxing.
As in this article http://www.astrologer.com/aanet/pub/journal/ashes.html
Castle besiegement may be suspected for any sport where one team holds a trophy or a title and must be beaten in order to lose that title, and where a draw means the title or trophy stays with the holder. When besiegement applies, the holder has an intrinsic advantage over the challenger. The challenger must clearly defeat the holder in order to win the title.

There is reason to investigate this "castle beseigment theory" also in this horary chart, as we could consider the US government as "defender of the Earth" and the aliens as the "challengers".

This reverses completely the interpretation:

- 4th house ruler = US government = the Sun
- 10th house ruler = aliens = Saturn

South Node in the 4th house = the castle is severely aflicted.
Saturn in the 4th house = the aliens have already entered our castle
The Sun in exile disposed by Saturn = they have already taken prisoners or they totally control the US government
The Moon (we, the people of the world) is beseiged. Humanity as a whole is the next target as they are through with the rulers. "They" want to control us. We are the target.
The Moon recently left Sun's sign: the population are no longer under US government's real control. Nor under aliens power yet. However, the Moon mutually applies to Saturn - they will get to us eventually. And we are fool enough not to try to escape (the Moon applies to Saturn).

Well this other SF novel also makes some sense.

http://www.war-ofthe-worlds.co.uk/images/aliens_are_coming_cover_x.jpg

[Liquid Green]

hey.....good thread
I wonder, the question was specifically about the US govenrments contact with aliens, but i wonder is there anything in the chart that could point to "another" government having contact with aliens, instead?

[Culpeper]

Radu:

After consulting other books, I found the delineation of the besieged city, fort, castle, etc. in the __The Key to Astrology__ by Henry Coley. It backs your interpretation of the fourth house.

Saturn and the Dragon's Tail in the 4th indicate the defeat of the USA by the aliens. The Sun, ruler of the 4th, peregrine, and lacking aspect from the benefics show that even the commanders have lost hope.

Wish I could bring better news.

[Moulin]

Hang on a second you guys..

are you saying that Aliens are going to take over the USA?

WOW :eek: that's better than any sci-fi story!! :D

When?

Is there not already a conspiarcy theory that certain Senator's are aliens in disguise?

Radu:

After consulting other books, I found the delineation of the besieged city, fort, castle, etc. in the __The Key to Astrology__ by Henry Coley. It backs your interpretation of the fourth house.

Saturn and the Dragon's Tail in the 4th indicate the defeat of the USA by the aliens. The Sun, ruler of the 4th, peregrine, and lacking aspect from the benefics show that even the commanders have lost hope.

Wish I could bring better news.

[tikana]

Moulin

i dont think so

i hope not..we got enough illegal immigrants as is

i think what it is saying is the US cannot control their entries

T

[Moulin]

No, this is true...

nor can they control their exits either :eek:

I did notice that when you now enter the USA it no longer says "US citizens" and "Aliens" :D:D

Moulin

i dont think so

i hope not..we got enough illegal immigrants as is

i think what it is saying is the US cannot control their entries

T

[Radu]

are you saying that Aliens are going to take over the USA?

WOW :eek: that's better than any sci-fi story!! :D

When?

Is there not already a conspiarcy theory that certain Senator's are aliens in disguise?
I guess the horary chart suggests it already happened: It all started when that borg president was elected :D
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31T9BBJSZSL._AA240_.jpg

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

What bothers me, though, is that Luna is so new into her current Sign. She's only in the first degree of Virgo, and as such only has one separating aspect. So, can we really say a separating Trine to Venus is enough to show that all of this has happened as has been proposed here?

If Luna tells the story behind (through separating aspects) and ahead (through applying aspects) of the question, then I would expect her to have made more aspects than she has already.