What we want vs.whats best for us..

[4leafclovah]

Our chart shows us the the certain types of people we tend to gravitate towards, but does that mean those people are what's best for us? Is there anything in the chart that points to the type of people/characteristics that are healthier for us, or is there where the aspects come in?

[Derestanne]

4leafclovah,

For this particular question, you will learn much by studying your moon nodes and chiron.

North Node (Rahu) is the Easy Path, wherever it is in the Chart this is the work that we like to do, the way we prefer to spend our time, the people we like to associate with, etc.

South Node (Ketu) is the Road Less Traveled. It is what we have always found difficult, it is what seems a burden to us, it is the people who we don't understand that drive us crazy.

Often when we are in a Rahu Cycle, we feel good, life seems good and easygoing people are all over us. In a Ketu Cycle, we feel unsure, seek guidance and often spend quiet time alone.

Chiron will point to those people that you likely had past life involvement with, may have a destiny with now, or it points to those who can wake us up and teach us things of value. Sometimes contact with our "Chiron People" will be brief but quite memorable. Other times, you encounter these people with a strong deja vu. I have warned that trying to strike up a long term relationship with a past life flame can be difficult and sometimes impossible. This will be particularly true if your Chiron is Retrograde, conjuncts South Node or conjuncts another retrograde planet or asteroid.

There are other indications, but these are often a good place to start.

[4leafclovah]

Derestanne,I thought we are supposed to develop the north node qualities in this life. Is that what you are saying? So should I be associating with north or south node people?

[Derestanne]

4leaf,

Your question was, "what we want vs. what's best for us".

The real challenge is our Karma: represented by Chiron and South Node. Many Vedic Astrologers will tell us to make the most of Rahu (North Node) because this is what brings fame, fortune and the good life!

But if you want a challenge, Ketu will bring you plenty!

We've all heard the old saying, "No Pain, No Gain". This is where Chiron and Ketu comes into the picture. But many "wise men" (and women) will tell you, "In all things, take the middle path". In other words, there is a time for teachers, karma and South Node experiences and a time for North Node. To be fully human, we have to do both in our lifetime's.

Does that make sense now?

[gaer]

4leafclovah,

For this particular question, you will learn much by studying your moon nodes and chiron.

North Node (Rahu) is the Easy Path, wherever it is in the Chart this is the work that we like to do, the way we prefer to spend our time, the people we like to associate with, etc.

That is exactly opposite to what I've read, and it's opposite to my own personal experiences. :(

[Derestanne]

Gaer,

You will never hear me quarrel with personal experience!

One possible explanation I can think of is Retrograde Nodes, which I occasionally see in some charts. I was taught that North Node could be thought of as a 2nd indication of Uranus in a Chart and South Node like a 2nd indication of Neptune. This has worked successfully for me.

"The Astrology Charts are Perfect, but there are no perfect Astrologers."

I saw this quote years ago; does anyone know who said it?

[gaer]

Gaer,

You will never hear me quarrel with personal experience!

One possible explanation I can think of is Retrograde Nodes, which I occasionally see in some charts. I was taught that North Node could be thought of as a 2nd indication of Uranus in a Chart and South Node like a 2nd indication of Neptune. This has worked successfully for me.

I don't use the nodes as much as many other things, so I'm open to new ideas. Most people use the mean nodes, and they are always retrograde. Some people use the "true nodes". There is a difference of 1 degree in my own chart, but this can occasionally cause the nodes to be in different signs. It was my understanding that only the true nodes (calculations) can show direct motion. Am I wrong?

I have simply thought of the SN as the area in which I am most comfortable. Mercury is conjunct the SN, and that location, the third house, Scorpio on the cusp, with Mars there also in Scorpio, seems to describe who I was and what I wanted when I was young.

The NN seems to reflect who I am today and how I've changed within this lifetime. The 9th house should at least reflect a more philosophical nature, more interest in the whole world, etc. The literal meaning of long journeys has no connection to me, because I have never had the money or opportunites to travel, but figuratively I "travel" all over the world by talking with people in many countries: India, Ukraine, France, Germany, Japan, Australia, etc. I also view affairs within the US more from a world perspective than an American one.

I really feel like my destiny lies in the 9th, NN, not in the 3rd, SN. In addition, the NN is the only thing in my chart that is far enough from my planets to form an opposition, obvious since Mercury is conjunct SN.

Again, none of this is written in stone, obviously, and I'd be very much interested in the personal experiences of others. Relating a planet to the nodes is a new idea. I'll have to think about this. :)

Gaer

[Derestanne]

Gaer,

I appreciate your response. This has turned into a really interesting and intelligent discussion about the Moon Nodes!

I myself have always used the true nodes. I'll tell you why. I first started using Astrology Software with John Halloran's Astrol 8 in the 1980's, which later evolved into Astrol Deluxe and Astrol Deluxe for Windows. As Halloran introduced new versions, the true node calculation continued.

I would now refer us to this Website:

http://www.lunarliving.org/moon/nodes.shtml

...with the understanding that I am not holding up this particular Website as the last word on this subject!

Gaer, you asked, "It was my understanding that only the true nodes (calculations) can show direct motion. Am I wrong?".

Quoting the above Website:

"The Mean Nodes are always in "retrograde" motion, while the True Nodes change direction frequently."

So it appears that you are correct, and I have definitely been using the True Nodes for all these years!

Again quoting the Website:

" The North Node’s placement reinforces where life will be easier for us. The South Node’s placement will reveal where we are more likely to stumble or reinforce a rut. However, too much North Node activity can be just as detrimental to our lives as too much South Node activity. The significance of the two placements is to find balance between the two areas within our life."

This is exactly what I meant and attempted to say on my previous post. Of your own South Node, you said, "...seems to describe who I was and what I wanted when I was young".

And yes, I agree completely! I also relate South Node to previous lifetimes both in terms of what went right in that past lifetime and what was a real mess for the Native in question!

And I too welcome the input of others on this entire subject!

[4leafclovah]

4leaf,

Your question was, "what we want vs. what's best for us".

The real challenge is our Karma: represented by Chiron and South Node. Many Vedic Astrologers will tell us to make the most of Rahu (North Node) because this is what brings fame, fortune and the good life!

But if you want a challenge, Ketu will bring you plenty!

We've all heard the old saying, "No Pain, No Gain". This is where Chiron and Ketu comes into the picture. But many "wise men" (and women) will tell you, "In all things, take the middle path". In other words, there is a time for teachers, karma and South Node experiences and a time for North Node. To be fully human, we have to do both in our lifetime's.

Does that make sense now? Hmmm, i think so. I'm gonna sit on this one for awhile. Thanks Derestanne!

[Liquid Green]

Our chart shows us the the certain types of people we tend to gravitate towards, but does that mean those people are what's best for us? Is there anything in the chart that points to the type of people/characteristics that are healthier for us, or is there where the aspects come in?

i thought we should look at our our own natal DC.............could be wrong though

[gaer]

Gaer,
I appreciate your response. This has turned into a really interesting and intelligent discussion about the Moon Nodes!

I myself have always used the true nodes. I'll tell you why. I first started using Astrology Software with John Halloran's Astrol 8 in the 1980's, which later evolved into Astrol Deluxe and Astrol Deluxe for Windows. As Halloran introduced new versions, the true node calculation continued.

Ah, okay. Now I understand. I have always used Astrolog, and it allows either. For years I had just assumed that the nodes are always retrograde. I never really thought much about it. Recently there was some discussion about computing the nodes. Astrolog allows me to switch to true mode calculation. I can compare.

At this moment, the mean is 29Aqu10 R. But the true node is 27Aqu48 R.

The problem, of course, is the change of sign. The mean was last in Pisces Jan. 7, 2008. But the true mode was last in Pisces Dec. 18th, 2008. That's a considerable amount of time, about three weeks I think. So it does make a difference which setting we use.

Use of true nodes would allow some very interesting interpretations, and everything about the nodes is opposite the movement of planets. Retrograde motion is not the norm. For the nodes, even the true ones, retrograde IS the normal motion. So you might read direct motion for the true nodes in much the way you look at retrograde motion for the planets. I really have never thought much about this.

" The North Node’s placement reinforces where life will be easier for us. The South Node’s placement will reveal where we are more likely to stumble or reinforce a rut. However, too much North Node activity can be just as detrimental to our lives as too much South Node activity. The significance of the two placements is to find balance between the two areas within our life."

I would agree with that. I think there needs to be a balance. It is never good for us to abandon what we already know or already have learned, but to stay with the NN would be not to grow. To rush off towards the opposite node would be reckless, sort of leaving behind a power-base.

I also relate South Node to previous lifetimes both in terms of what went right in that past lifetime and what was a real mess for the Native in question!

Ah, now I understand what you meant. In that way we would relate to what we have gotten very good at, including getting very good at doing some thing very wrong! :)

Gaer

[Nexus7]

I have seen a great deal written about the nodes recently, though I am still not sure what to make of them, mainly becase it has seemed to me that there sometimes seems to be a moralising tone about how we should live our lives regarding these that repels me somewhat. For example, there are dire warnings about how synastries pulling in our South Nodes will lead to our spiritual stagnation and undoing without really giving any anecdotal detail about how this might come about.

I had originally been told it was supposed to be what we were like in our past lives, though more recently, I have read that past lives or not, it can still be enough of of a player in the chart for one person on a forum elsewhere to declare that they actively avoid people whose south node falls in a specific sign.

I have heard that the South Node is supposed to be an area where we feel very comfortable, but if my own experience is anything to go by, it more likely, it can be a very touchy area. It seems to be an area where heavy criticism is not difficult to find or attract - as in the example above.

So there seems to be something to the idea that there could be something excessive or flawed to the way it comes across to others, although I am not sure that constant criticising - between friends, couples, family, etc, is the best way to work through whatever challenges the south node represents.

There are one or two occasions where synastry-wise there were Jupiters and Venuses on my North Node and the tendency there was to really look up to the people concerned (similar to MC contacts, in that respect). One of these, however, also had his Sun on that dreaded South Node too and eventually.....he started being heavly critcal of what he saw as my main shortcomings, though someone esle did suggest to metat hisown motives for doing this were hadly likely to have been purly for my benefit.

I am not comfortable with using ideas such as 'karma' with any part of the chart - I just would not want to invoke such judgements, though I know that many astrologers are happy to work with these ideas.

[Nexus7]

...and yet another point of view expressed here seems to be that if we want to be challenged, we should look to that from within Ketu, the South Node, whilst it is the North Node that brings us the goodies.

It still seems to me that the theories about what the nodes represent seem to overshadow any sense of how the nodes actually do play out.

Being ratted on and investigated by the authorities sounds less than comfortable as an experience to undergo anyway, however you interpret the experience.I beleive that the action of 'Ketu' in Vedic schools is to create a sense of detachment from what we might have been originally attached to, no matter how painful that might be.

If the mouth of the dragon is to ingest new expereince and the function of the 'tail' is to, let us say eliminate, then this goes give a fairly graphic rendering of why the nodes might function as thery do, I suppose.

I did hear that the Vedics characterised both nodes as expressing compulsion, in one way or anoher: obsessions with the North Node and discontent and dissatisfaction with the South Node.

[gaer]

I have seen a great deal written about the nodes recently, though I am still not sure what to make of them, mainly becase it has seemed to me that there sometimes seems to be a moralising tone about how we should live our lives regarding these that repels me somewhat. For example, there are dire warnings about how synastries pulling in our South Nodes will lead to our spiritual stagnation and undoing without really giving any anecdotal detail about how this might come about.


I have seen a great deal written about the nodes recently, though I am still not sure what to make of them, mainly becase it has seemed to me that there sometimes seems to be a moralising tone about how we should live our lives regarding these that repels me somewhat. For example, there are dire warnings about how synastries pulling in our South Nodes will lead to our spiritual stagnation and undoing without really giving any anecdotal detail about how this might come about.

I think that anything that is said to be true needs to be tested. At this point I almost think that you have to have a deep understanding of astrology, in general, and deep knowledge of yourself in order to consider the symbolic meaning of the nodes.

SN in the 3rd and NN in the 9th makes sense for me, in my chart. I don't feel comfortable analyzing things in the same manner for anyone else.

Gaer

[Derestanne]

...and yet another point of view expressed here seems to be that if we want to be challenged, we should look to that from within Ketu, the South Node, whilst it is the North Node that brings us the goodies.

Certainly I intended this as a generalization. And how true this would be for each individual will vary from Chart to Chart; Person to Person. For someone who has come far enough along in the grand scheme of things, they most likely have their personal "Nodes Issues" figured out already. But you and I will most likely not be meeting too many people who fit that description!

I beleive that the action of 'Ketu' in Vedic schools is to create a sense of detachment from what we might have been originally attached to, no matter how painful that might be. ....I did hear that the Vedics characterised both nodes as expressing compulsion, in one way or anoher: obsessions with the North Node and discontent and dissatisfaction with the South Node.

In retrospect, I was not wanting to touch off an "Western vs. Eastern" discussion. Nonetheless, we seem to be there!

Speaking from my own experience, I've had my own Birth Chart interpreted by both Western and Vedic Astrologers. One big difference that I did note was the Vedic "tendency to moralize" that you referred to previously and I found that the Vedic approach seemed to point up all manner of character flaws (including some I didn't even know I had - LOL!). Yet I was still very intrigued with my Vedic interpretation, particularly since the Vedic provided explanations for things that had happened to me numerous times (again and again) in my life, complete with Rahu / Ketu references to explain them. The Western Interpretations did not even recognize those patterns!

I find that people tend to gravitate toward the System that best follows their own values and their expectations of Astrology. Yes, I really honestly believe that! In my career I've had a few Clients who I attempted to Read for, and they couldn't relate well to me, nor I to them. And so every so often, I send somebody to a Vedic Astrologer (or some other kind of Astrologer). What was that old 60's saying? Different strokes for different folks! So true!

[Nexus7]

By the way, when I said that I 'believe' the South Node means this.....

well, that was a typo. What I actually meant to say is that I understand the Vedics believe. Not that I believe this myself necessarily.


I have never had a Vedic reading. I can see it has become a lot more popular though. What I liked was the fact that it appears to throw a spanner in the works over which zodiac is valid - it means that there could be many ways to look at a chart that cannot categorise in quite such a black-and-white way. A little bit less room for what I think of as astro-fundamentalism.

I did get a computer readout of a vedic chart and yes, it painted an very negative portrait of my character. It did not in places seem to be especially accurate either though, so I did not shed tears on this one.

I have come across newer books on the nodes from a tropical perspective which, whilst very perceptive, are also very negative - in ways that did not always seem to be to be especially constructive.

Some might say that reallly most people ought to deserve to have the spotlight on their more undesirable qualities at some time, but in fact, I would say that this could be done very nicely with any factor in the birthchart. Does anyone, for example, remember a little sun-sign book by one Maria Elieze Crummere? Well, her observations were also very perceptive and accurate, but if that had been iven a moral spin too, I am not sure how edifying that would be to dwell on at all times. One person I showed th book to comented that the writer must have had a 'diabolically afflicted Mars.'

Anyway, what I also wanted to say is that one book on the nodes - or at least the appoach - was that taken by Kevin Burk, where he is a little less black-and-white about how to delineate nodal interpretations.