View Full Version : persona charts
01-14-2006, 12:17 AM
Does anyone know more about how to interpret the planets,signs,aspects and houses in the persona charts?
On the internet I have only found information on astrodienst
Maybe someone know some links to other sites?
Here're some ideas gathered from the net:
It is based on classical astrological concepts. Like many therapists and
astrologers, Zinnel and Orban imagine a whole theatrical company of
sub-personalities within each of us. Speaking astrologically, everyone has a
Venus-personality, a Mars-personality, a Saturn-personality, etc.
Orban and Zinnel have discovered that the horoscope for the moment at which the
Sun first traverses the position of Mars in the birth chart is an expression of
the sub-personality corresponding to Mars. Like a solar horoscope, the chart for
this moment can be interpreted as a “natal chart” for that
person’s Mars-personality, the Mars persona chart.
One can calculate a chart for each of the nine planets, from the Moon to Pluto.
The persona chart for the Sun is the natal chart itself. There are bound to be
astrologers in the future who will who will set up Chiron personas, personas for
the Moon’s nodes, the ascendant and so on. The fascinating thing about
persona charts is that the basic idea is so convincing – that in passing,
the Sun awakens the sub-personalities.
Interpreting Persona Charts
Here is a very short guide to the interpretation of persona charts, according to
Orban and Zinnel.
The Moon Persona Chart
The feminine in us, our feeling worlds, the inner child, emotional security.
This tells us a lot about the inner life of a person.
The Mercury Persona Chart
Outward mobility, articulation, intelligence, communicating with the outer
world, dealing with daily necessity.
The Venus Persona Chart
Joy in the senses, Eros and sexual pleasure, sensual delight, the way we relate
to other people, problems we might have to deal with in relationships.
The Mars Persona Chart
The inner warrior, self-assertion, how one takes a stand, the kinds of battles
one fights, with what means one fights them and to what purpose.
The Jupiter Persona Chart
The meaning of life, the inner therapist, where we put the
“religion” in our lives.
The Saturn Persona Chart
The law, our mission in life, things fate wants to teach us and things we
don’t like to learn.
The Uranus Persona Chart
Where to let go, where to be free, and where we find the “fool” and
The Neptune Persona Chart
The search for truth, pushing past falsehood to what lies beyond.
The Pluto Persona Chart
The battle with demons, with forces that want to keep us from life. Fixed images
When working with persona charts, one should bear the following points in mind:
1) The most important sub-personality is the “Ruler of 1”. For
example, anyone with an ascendant in Libra should take a good look at their
Venus persona chart. The persona chart for the planet which rules the ascendant
can give us a lot of insight.
2) The persona chart for the Moon tells us about the feminine energies of a
person. Just as the natal chart is the Sun-persona chart or Yang-chart, so the
Moon persona chart is the Yin-chart. In this sense it is the horoscope of the
anima, the feminine counterpart. Tuning in to her means going in search of her
3) The ascendant of a persona chart leads us deeply into the unconscious. It
shows where the unconscious strives toward the light.
4) The Sun in a persona chart is regarded as the ego of the sub-personality. Not
as THE EGO!! Saturn too has an “ego”, a will-to-be. The persona-ego
is always partly familiar, since the Sun occupies the zodiacal degree of the
planet involved. However, there is no way in which we can tell which house it
will be in. This tells us considerably more about how the sub-personality will
5) The midheaven (MC) of the persona-chart shows the fate of the
sub-personality. At the same time, it represents the quintessence of the path to
be taken, from the (subconscious) ascendant to the “Light of
Consciousness” at the midheaven. One cannot tell how far each person will
go, since this seems to depend on the intensity of the individual effort.
С наилучшими пожеланиями, Денис Куталёв
3) The ascendant of a persona chart leads us deeply into the unconscious.
It shows where the unconscious strives toward the light.
Here's a comment by Russian astrologer Albert Timashev, translated from Russian using Babelfish:
ASC - this in their interpretation unconscious???
The general impression is such: break mirror and in its splinters you will see the myriads of the partial reflections of reality, but you will nowhere see whole. If we already broke mirror, then it is necessary either to attempt him to glue together or to create new. There is no other way: to valuably examine something in the splinters is impossible, and furthermore there is a danger to wound.
01-14-2006, 12:06 PM
Thanks Radu for the information,
But I still can't figure out how to interpret the houses,signs and aspects in the persona chart.
For instance,my mars persona chart.The ascendant is cancer.So,maybe my inner warrior,my selfassertion has,unconsciously, cancerqualities.
As the sun as the protagonist of mars is in the 6th house in virgo,the best way my mars shows itself is here.Mmm,also an opposition of jupiter in the 4th house with saturn..No,it really is too difficult for me at this moment to get some insights here.
Maybe I just have to wait for a translation of the book of these two German astrologers...and if someone knows something on the internet of interpretations of persona charts,let me know!
I'm not familiar with these charts either.
But if the persona chart for your Mars is actually the chart for your inner warrior, the inner guy who wants to take action, full of drive and ambition, then this Mars persona chart will only deepen this concept.
In your case, Cancer rising will say that your inner warrior fights for family values, that you are most likely to spend a lot of your energy, drive, ambition in Cancerian settings, such as family, home, your country, your dorm, riverside or lakeside and other similar places. It also tells about a peaceful and non-combative attitude in life, always striving not to harm.
Sun's position in the 6th house would indicate that your natal Mars energy is used for service, for fulfilling duties, that you invest a lot of your energy to do things right, almost perfect and so on. In fact, this idea is already present in your traditional natal chart - natal Mars in Virgo.
I suppose that you can expand this kind of interpretation for all other planets. I have a sneaky feeling that house positions are most important in this type of chart, followed by aspects and sign positions.
It would be interesting to study these kind of charts in special natal charts such as Chiron Discovery chart (1 nov 1977, 10:00 am PST, Pasadena CA). The Chiron persona chart of the Chiron discovery chart is really interesting and explains deeper what is Chiron really about. (chart is set for 23 apr 1978, 8:16 am PST, same place).
First we see the Sun in this new chart in tight square with Mars = that's the wound everybody talks about. But the Sun is also sextile Jupiter from the 1st house - that's the healer thing. So, you've got the basic definition of Chiron = wounded healer.
Sun in the 11th house - Chiron wants to help the world, to give away what he has.
Then you may go on and study it further - planet by planet and gain insight on every tidbit of Chiron's personality.
Notice for instance the ruler of the Ascendant, Mercury in Aries in very tight opposition with Pluto - that must be his sufferance, as he is wounded and is in huge pain, but his immortality doesn't allow this condition end by death. The opposition with Pluto would therefore spell paiful immortality. So the solution found by Chiron is to help unconditionally the world (the trine with Neptune) healing people physically (Neptune in the 6th house) or spiritualy (Neptune in Sagittarius).
More on this suffering we can get from Venus in Taurus on Algol square Saturn. He lives (Venus in domcile) yet suffers a lot (conjunct Algol) endlessly (square Saturn).
The main thing here is that Chiron is viewed basicly as a great benefactor of humanity (Jupiter exalted in Cancer in the 1st house).
And one could go on and one about this...
This is a marvelous tool. Thank you Johan for pointing it out.
Below is the Chiron persona chart for the Chiron discovery - the chart I talked about.
03-25-2007, 12:59 PM
Hello.. Im just wondering how to interpret the sun in a moon persona chart?
I have a cancer asc in my natal sun chart, so Im studying the moon right now. Its hard to separate the sun and asc!
03-25-2007, 01:11 PM
Also, the sun is in pisces 5th house.
The moon in leo 10th house.
In my sun natal chart its: sun in leo 2nd house, moon in pisces 9th house. Very confusing.
01-06-2010, 03:49 PM
my question is how are persona charts cast and what do they reprsent? apparently everyone has a persona chart for every planet? thx guys Happy new year
06-07-2010, 11:28 PM
my question is how are persona charts cast and what do they represent? apparently everyone has a persona chart for every planet? thnx guys Happy new year
I got the idea that you find the date the Sun occupies the degree that the persona planet is in the natal chart... I am not sure, I only started researching the Persona Charts today...:whistling:
10-14-2010, 03:47 AM
Is not easy to analyze persona charts for ones own self, as the first requirement here is to blow ones own ego cover we all hold very tight too. I'm speaking now 'through the mirror' here, sharing a look from inside cose i'm alreaddy there and didnt jet think about the best way to explain others how to acctually get there. One thing that i'm sure tough is that many of you wuldnt eaven want to go there cose it takes guts in facing ones own reality and it's degree of (dis)integrity, facing it (as an emphirical approach here is required) momoent by moment as life comes. I'm not in this 'state' constantly, lol, but i spent a lot deal of energy in probing the mechnisms of this technique and how to set it in motion.
First thing we must be aware of is, that we are not allways the 'same person' in every given situation, thoward every person, maybe that's the best starting point to explain - we dont allways behave in the same way thoward every person, and likewise otherwise, every person displays a different personality in regard which preson they come in contact with, and not eaven the same personality every time. There jumps in that famous sentence "I thought i know you, but now i see i dont know you at all". Bascly that person experienced the clashing of two or more personalities of someone close to him/her, a mather that wasnt meant to meet his/her eyes . Actually, the triggers are corelated in regard to the whole creation at large, but to start understanding this technique the eayest way to spot those shifts is to analyze the way we relate to actual people in our life. Yeah, we are basicly talking about what is commonly taught as 'dubble standards', while in fact, we're acctually applying multiple standards on a dayly basis. Not the most enjoyable of topics to discuss, and i assume some heads have allready started spinning :sideways:
K, let's get on a next example, brainstorming people, there's no other way. Dealing with Persona Charts means exsercising ones own mental flexibility. Let's use one pretty common social construction as the typical western sucessfull male specimen, someone like Don Draper of the serie Mad Men http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Men
He's an executive leader in some corporate company, thus very engaged there and on the 'first line of the battlefield', well liked and respected for his achievement. He is VERY heard and seen there, there is where his agressive part of personality trully shine.
He has a wife and two kids at home, there he is carring but not eaven close or expressive, rather quiet and reserved in his habbits, very closed up leaving things on 'propper' and appearences. He takes his family as his duty rather than anything else.
Then we have this kind of man going on his 'bussines trips', and we can introduce another typical cliché of those in charge of many heavy responsabilities, that there he enjoys the services of some expirienced domina, loosing his preassure and burdens in the game of SM, lol.
Another cliché we can add, he is an borderline alchoholic, prone to explosive violent outbrusts when touching the bottom of the bottle, from time to time . .
You see how the same person changes significantly, regarding different people and situations ? Well, there is where his different personalities jump in, and each of us has those shifts, it depends only by which degree . .
Adding to the story up, it would be a pitty to forget that Don Draper was acctually a deciever that stole someones other identity, and was selling himself for that person. So here we have, quite interesting, his person's thief personality too, quite a big jump from that well estimated big shot hunk from the start . . But it should be said that this is an extreme example, and neverthless, it's not so rare to be found around.
I'll drop here, if any questions i'll be glad to discuss it later :smile:
02-11-2011, 05:13 PM
I loved this thread i would like to learn more about tips for persona charts interpretation!!
So please if anyone can go deeper let us know!!!! A full example will be great
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