Can you help me with this composite?

[Hoppipola]

Hi there,

Could anybody help me out with this composite chart?

It seems to me that this is a relationship that will never «be», with all these planets in 12th?

Thnks a lot:)

[lillyjgc]

Hop, Can I just ask, with this composite: Do you have the correct birth times for both people?
cheers, Lillyjgc

[cjc]

Hop,

I have to echo Lilly... How close are the birth times? My concern goes beyond house placements to the relationship between the Moon and Saturn.

IF this is actually a tight semi-sextile, I think the relationship would be in for rough going. But, if these are (say) 2 noon charts, who knows where the Moons would be.

While most practitioners would scoff at a semi-sextile, I take them very seriously (also the quincunx). If you look at the transits to one of them, the transits to the other are very frequenty opposite in nature. For example, we're loking a 2 Aq and 2 Pi. Right now, we don't have any of the heavy hitters in range to demonstrate the problem, so let's look at next October as an example with Su, Me, Ve, and Ma all moving into Scorpio. They will all TRINE your Saturn, but simultaneously SQUARE your Moon. When these planets move into Sag, they will SEXTILE your Moon, but simultaneously SQUARE your Saturn. You will constantly be off balance because while some facets of your relationship are going great, others will suck. And they'll hit at the same time.

Moon and Saturn? Mother and father? What are the ages involved here?

If this chart is accurate, you may have to keep the relationship hidden or at least low key. Or, there may be secrets between the two of you.

I'd be very careful.

c

[Hoppipola]

Thank you both!

Yes, the birth times are correct. And it´s not like mother/father, we have 2 years difference...
It seems to me there must be something hidden, as well, with so many planets on 12th, but it´s not on my side. I´ve nothing to hide, on the contrary, I was very open hearted (the synastry has very good aspects, like his Sun trine my Moon, and so, so I felt secure and safe).

cjc, I know what you mean with your concern about semi-sextile. I have a semi-sextile Sun/Moon on my natal chart, and either the Sun is «under fire» of some transit, or the Moon is...

But what do you think about that huge conjunction of planets?? Does it seem a karmic thing?

Cheers

[lillyjgc]

Hop,
with so many aspects involving h12 we need to consider the ramifications of house 12....its not just secret matters- its secret sorrows, and self-undoing also/..
I personally believe that composites dont show as much as synastry ,as a composite is essentially a theoretical chart...But as for being kharmic? the nodes arent aspected so maybe not but possibly ill-fated in some way...i would say this composite describes a volatile and unloving relationship with a touch of insanity thrown in...but as it is only a composite it probably doesnt mean much....
cheers lillyjgc

[Hoppipola]

Hop,
with so many aspects involving h12 we need to consider the ramifications of house 12....its not just secret matters- its secret sorrows, and self-undoing also/..
I personally believe that composites dont show as much as synastry ,as a composite is essentially a theoretical chart...But as for being kharmic? the nodes arent aspected so maybe not but possibly ill-fated in some way...i would say this composite describes a volatile and unloving relationship with a touch of insanity thrown in...but as it is only a composite it probably doesnt mean much....
cheers lillyjgc

Maybe you´re right, lillyjgc...I just didn´t think it would be unloving, because of Venus conjunt Sun...

The synastry looks much better, but I can´t post it...

[lillyjgc]

Hop- yes but its a wide orb and the sun cant *shine* in the twelfth- the sun is what nurtures us. Also venus is opposite uranus (which happens to be conjunct pluto-:eek: ). Now trust me- I've experienced the grief of venus opposite pluto in both synastry and a composite...othing compares to this grief in my experience....The grief can be caused by loss of the partner (suddenly, as uranus is involved) by death or sudden departure....Venus opposite pluto has overtones of obsessive emotions... As this opposition occurs across the H12-H6 axis, the health of the *relationship* is adversely affected. This is emphasised as the sun in h12 is ruler of H6.
I see mars conjunct neptune-h8....ruled by mars and opposed by jupiter in the second- money lost also damage to self esteem....
The moon is in saturns sign and square mars which is also unfortunate....
This chart rings warning bells for me- but it is only a composite so the synastry would be more illuminating.
All the best,
lillyjgc

[rahu]

the sun opposed to uranus is a major obstacle for stability in composite charts and the venus opposed to pluto as liiy mentions is very hard to live with.the jupiter opposed to neptune can also be problematic as it injects a element of illusion into the chart.
before writing it off,these oppositions from a mystic rectangle so there is a possibility that all these potential contradictions can be integrated into a working relationship.
but i would think that this relationship shpuld have formed in the middle of last years,if not,there might be to many "hiiden' obstacles.
rahu

[Hoppipola]

Thanks Rahu,

That´s what I figured and what everybody´s saying: hidden things or obstcales. As I´m not hiding anything, I assume it´s the other «side» who´s doing it...

Anyway, what do you mean with «i would think that this relationship shpuld have formed in the middle of last years»?

Actually, this «relationship» (if I can call it so) began a couple of months ago. I as hoping the mystical rectangle would help, but...

[Kingsley]

Hello Hoppipoia

Remembering that the composite chart represents combined energies and creates an external perspective of two individuals as one entity. Therefore one must use the composite chart to interpret the the relational third of two individuals together. That is 1 person + 1 person = 1 person + 1 person + the third part which is the relational self. In my view one must view all composites as the relational combined energy and therefore how any two people may opperate as one entity. The composit may not describe how well one individual relates to the other but instead the process involved in that relationship. The grouping of planets in the 12th house represents the unseen and obscured nature of these meanings for the relational identity. Therefore the relationship tends to blind to certain workings and not to others. There could be a motivation to find balance and identity of the relationship through what is not percieved within the relationship. That is not a bad thing or does it say that the relationship is not a good one.

check out what Liz Greene has to say about composites and if you like I have written a recent blog on my understanding of the composite. The link is below.

kingsley

[Kingsley]

The Sun opp Uranus in my view is saying that the identity or ego part of the relationship takes a default but individual process. Separateness is expressed as an ego value and thus the relationship takes an identity of uniqueness. Venus opp Pluto is the intensity in which the "entity" attracts a certain style of relating towards others. The relationship entity deals with joint attachment issues and therefore creates an intensity that seems to always be there.

kingsley

[Hoppipola]

Thanks a lot, Kingsley!

You gave me a new perspective on this composite! I was seeing this opposition venus/pluto the same way Lilly and Rahu mentioned: a hard thing to face, an ordeal, though i always see pluto as a tremendous transformative power, and usually cope well with it. Only this is a two people issue, so if only one is willing to move forward, there´s nothing else to be done...

About uranus: I also see this opposition to sun as an obstacle to stability, but the truth is that I´m not looking for someone to marry or to live with (I have enough of marriage). Just wanted to have a good and fullfilling relationship, and with this guy I felt «touched inside», for the first time in years...

I loved your blogue, it´s very interesting, you have very profound considerations in the analysis. I´ll get back to it, for sure...

Cheers