pluto opposite mercury [Archive] - Astrologers' Community

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johan

12-15-2005, 12:34 PM

Amazon1963

12-16-2005, 01:37 AM

Johan,

I am confused about your question. Is your question 'Is a transit able to square an opposition'? or do you seek to understand the aspect and transiting Pluto squaring one or both of the planets? Here is some information on the natal aspect of Mercury Opposition Pluto.

MERCURY OPPOSITION PLUTO - The opposition between Mercury and Pluto gives a power and depth to your mind that will enable you to get to the root of any issue. You can perceive the hidden connections between the facts and are therefore suited to any form of research. You may be over-forceful when expressing your opinions, regarding any opposition or disagreement as a direct challenge that must be met and won by any means, and when seriously provoked you are able to launch a devastating verbal attack on the perpetrator.

You are sensitive to the unspoken, and often unconscious motivations of others, and you may at times think that other people are using their authority or position of power to control or coerce your thinking; you will react angrily at such times. As with all oppositions, your own need to control, and your own mental turmoil may be projected on to someone else, there is a danger of blaming others for conflicts and doubts that originate from within yourself, thus provoking them into the very behaviour that you fear.

There is a lot more to understanding your natal chart than just one aspect or transit. Other planets may be aspected with Pluto as well.

If you would like more information on your chart or further questions on Mercury oppose Pluto, please include your birth data including, date, time, place of birth, along with the question.

You have come to a great place to learn about astrology, welcome! :)

Amazon1963

sita

12-16-2005, 03:26 AM

johann and amazon, hi. i, too, have pluto opp my mercury, nd amazon, i want to thank you for the info. i'm wondering where you got your interpretation from, because it resonated, and if it is something that you found online, i would love to get my little paws on more from that source. thanks, sita

johan

12-16-2005, 09:53 AM

thank you Amazon1963,
I am not always as clear as I would like to be but the question was partly answered,I wanted the information of the meaning of Mercury opposition Pluto in the natal chart and the influence of the transit of Pluto lately on this opposition in the natal chart(it made a square to both of the planets,am I right?)I am aware that there are more aspects and planets to be considered,but I picked this one out because it felt to me like a strong aspect which put my life upside down :lol:
thank you Sita,and a question:also in the 6th and 12th house?

I will try to put my natal chart on the forum soon but I am not very handy with this so have a little(that means much!)patience with me.
Thanks again for welcoming me!

Summery Joy

12-16-2005, 10:24 AM

Hello and welcome Johan,

This is an interesting question. I'd liek to know the answer too. I'm working on learning transit interpretation myself and the aspect you're talking about should be very powerful.

In a natal chart, when two planets are in opposition to one another and they both square a third planet, this is called a T-Square. The type of energy from this T-square varies according to the planets involved but it is directed to the empty area that opposes the squared planet (the area that would form a grand sqaure had planet been located there).

I wonder if a T-square formed by a transitting planet would have a similar effect. Yours should be very powerful because you have two Plutos involved, a natal one and a transitting one. WOW!

Amazon1963

12-16-2005, 01:01 PM

Johan,

Please just post your birth data and the group will be able to input the data themselves using their software or whatever they use to view charts. You dont have to be 'handy' with pasting a chart, just share the date, time, and location. If Pluto is indeed transiting and creating a square to both 12th and 6th house, we could help you more if we knew precisely what house Pluto was transiting and to what degree, is it near the Nadir, etc?

You understand it is much easier to 'see' something than to have it described... :wink: Also, there is much more to interpreting an aspect than just a simple interpretation, there is the 'sign' that influences the planet, the house influences, and so forth. Without a chart to see, one cannot ascertain if the planet is conjunct with another house, etc.

Without 'seeing' your chart, Johan, I cannot tell you more than the basic interpretation of the aspect. The following paragraphs are interpretive of the natal aspect of Mercury Oppose Pluto, not the transit of Mercury opposing Pluto.

This excerpt is from the book written by Robert Pelletier, 'Planets in Aspect' and his fuller interpretation of the aspect, Mercury Oppose Pluto:

With your Mercury opposition Pluto, mental and emotional anxiety prevails. You are extremely sensitive to any social problems you observe and cannot rest until you've made some effort to resolve them. Everything is in a state of crisis, you feel, until you can gather your forces to solve a problem that you sincerely believe is your responsibility. You are impatient with yourself and others to get things done immediately. You are certainly competent, but you need to be constantly reassured of this, so you project crises in your own life and with the people around you. Moderation and compromise are necessary if you wish to prevent others from breaking off with you.

When challenged, you are emotionally and intellectually arrogant, because you fear that your credibility is being questioned. You tend to draw premature conclusions based only on the obvious aspects of a situation. A more penetrating examiniation might reveal details that would force you to modify your judgement. You will have to cope with this problem before you can successfully handle your professional interests. Many difficulties will persist with your co-workers, who will not tolerate you unless you change your attitude.

You are suited for such fields as medicine, research, analysis, union activities, chemistry, and teaching. However, you must come to grips with the qualities that make it difficult for others to get along with you. You are extremely argumentative when provoked, and this can interfere with realizing your goals. Learn to mind your own business, and learn to respect the feelings of others. This can help greatly in gaining their cooperation and support when you need it, as everyone does on occasion. Others will appreciate your efforts if you compromise a little.

Finding a suitable mate may not be difficult for you, but you are more likely to keep the mate you find if you will meet your partner halfway in compromise. Your strong ambition and desire for financial security may drive a wedge of dissent between you. If you disagree about important matters it would be wise to seek guidance from someone who is an authority in such things. Resist the desire to project your ideas onto your partner or to make unacceptable demands. This will alienate your mate as surely as it does your associates.

Ideally, your partner's objectives should be consistent with yours; then you could undertake a cooperative program in which you would support each other.

You can enjoy continuing good health if you will try to do everything in moderation. Unwind by getting away from the pressure of competition. Your savings are very important, for they will allow you to be less anxious when unexpected expenses occur. But remember, in your relationships with others, what you are is more important that what you have.

Whew... :wink: good thing I can type faster than most people can talk, huh? Now if I could just get my brain to work that quickly... :D

Sita,

My apologies to you, I cannot tell you precisely where I found the notes on my original post. I will keep an eye out for the site though! Earlier this year when I started to learn in interest, my intent at the time was more directed towards gathering the information not citing its source. I never thought I would be using it for more than a private purpose. I hope the Pelletier excerpt was of assistance to you in further understanding.

Nora,

Thank you for your input! I didnt even think about a T-square! I am suspecting that Johan either has Pluto transiting either near or on his Nadir or Midheaven, especially when he described the transit as feeling like it was 'turning his life upside down'.

Amazon

johan

12-16-2005, 01:41 PM

Hello Amazon1963,I have tried to use the chart generator of this site,but I don't know how it works so here is my birth chart

Sun 5-53 aries Cheiron 2-44 aries
Moon 13-27 cancer AC 0-25 libra
Mercury 23-14 pisces MC 0-33 cancer
Venus 25-25 aries Vertex 0-59 aries
Mars 11-26 sagittarius Northnode 0-08 aries
Jupiter 0-31 libra Pars fortunae 7-59 capricorn
Saturn 25-42 aries
Uranus 1-48 libra
Neptune 28-31 scorpio
Pluto 23-27 virgo

Born on the 26th of march 1969,18.28 in Slikkerveer,the Netherlands

Amazon1963

12-16-2005, 11:10 PM

Johan,

Thank you for your natal data, it makes it much easier to build and interpret a chart. I read on another thread where you are interested in Rhudyar's work and thats a good way to start! Rhudyar is considered profound. Especially since the aspect(s) were profound enough to motivate you to write to the forum!

My daughter has been going through something similar to your experience with Pluto as well. Her Pluto has not squared her natal Pluto yet, but it will very soon. Periods of upheaval and pressures that seem to come from out of nowhere! She too, has Libra rising as well.

As I suspected, the transiting Pluto is squaring your natal Pluto and its going to be affecting you for a little while longer. I also noted that Uranus is squaring your Mars.

Squares in the transit natal chart should be viewed as a time when a big effort is required by the person experiencing it to face the challenges it presents. If you 'fear' or run from the challenge it will restrict your energy available to deal effectively with whatever problems or challenges the square presents.

Pluto is transiting my 1st house, Pluto has been in opposition to my moon, squaring my Uranus, etc for a number of years now. I learned the harder I pushed back against controlling forces through either confrontation or escapist techniques, the worse the situation became and the angrier and more resentful I became. Since realizing this and learning and accepting that these are 'life' lessons that I need to learn to be a better person overall and have a better life, my attitude overall has definitely improved! Oh of course things/people still rear their heads at me in the form of 'controlling' types in my life, thats just life, the difference is in how I cope and deal with them.

This site contains interpretations from the same book that I own, by Robert Hand, and is available online so I wont type it, you can go and read for yourself. If you havent done so already by all means use the astrodienst site, its free, insightful and is a great tool for building charts.

http://www.astro.com

Some years ago I had a brilliant anatomy professor who was idly chatting with a small group of us in the class one day. He related to some of our scholastic struggles into advanced anatomy and physiology and how it had been difficult subject for him as well. Well, that surprised me! The man was extremely intelligent in my estimation and not just because he held a doctorate or taught the course. The professor went on to explain that in medical school he and the other students werent much different than us, some were very studious and focused and others lacked some initiative and got by with as little studying as possible. He and some buddies taunted and teased one fellow who always had a minimum of six books on every single course they studied.

One day the future professor stopped and asked him about the 'whys' he had so very many books on hand for each and every subject and wasnt spending that money on other things. His fellow student replied that he had done some reading on the learning process since he was having difficulties on grasping some courses. In the course of his reading, he read about a psychologist who was an expert on learning and cognitive theories explained that learning is reinforced through at least six different perspectives. So to end this story, my professor made it through and received his doctorate and achieved moderate success as the head of the science department of the college I attended and his buddy is now one of the nation's top neuro-vascular surgeons in this country, owns an institute that instructs other physicians in the same field and also co-owns a major hospital in a large metropolitan city, here in the USA. So much for spending your extra money on things other than learning if you are serious on the subject... :wink:

The professor's story and advice have resounded for me for years. I always try to read at least six different perspectives on the same subject and it works very well compounding theories I was familiar with but also assists in insights that might not have been apparent in a prior theory. I feel he gave me a 'gift' or 'blessing' and I always share what I am blessed with if I think it will help others. So I will help you by encouraging you to read the aspects discussed in your forecast on the Astro.com site, provide you with my own notes (even if I can't cite the sites, sorry Sita, still looking!), and with the internet at your fingertips, I'm sure you can find a multitude of other sources to read and compound your learning.

PLUTO TRANSITING YOUR 2ND HOUSE (approx. 14-30 years duration)
You may desire greater material security during this period. Initially you may suffer severe loss or destruction of personal property, or severe reversals of fortune. As you recover financial control, you may become more involved in joint finances, corporate funds, taxes, insurance, and pensions. You may become increasingly resourceful and find new uses for outworn or discarded things. You hunt for ways to regenerate wealth and build security.

PLUTO TRANSITING YOUR 3RD HOUSE (approx. 14-30 years duration)
During this period you may desire greater access and control over information. You may be prone to discredit through exposed secrets and misuse of confidential information. As a precaution, you may tend to closely monitor and guard your thinking patterns and your communication, eliminating old assumptions and mental attitudes. Freedom of information, free speech, and censorship can be emotional issues. Caution is needed in signing important papers and contracts. Caution also is advised in negotiating traffic when traveling.

Here is the interpretation for the square:

PLUTO SQUARE YOUR PLUTO (Long-duration, 5-10+ weeks)
Occurs between age 40-65 according to your generation. This period can be significant to your eventual retirement. It's a good time to reevaluate your financial security plans, your will, taxes, and insurance. Eliminate financially unproductive areas and put more effort into meaningful pursuits. You may face termination of employment or a financial position that could force you to become more resourceful. With others in your age group, you may have to reevaluate attitudes towards death and survival, sharing and trust.

Also Uranus has just completed transiting your 5th house and has just entered the 6th. Like the Pluto transit and square wasn't enough 'fun', here's more 'fun' to contend with:

URANUS TRANSITING YOUR 5TH HOUSE (approx. 7 years duration)
You may have a desire for greater freedom, originality, and excitement in your creative and pleasure-seeking self-expression during this period. Your social and romantic life can be more stimulating, but you are prone to unstable romantic infatuations. Unexpected pregnancy is more likely to occur at this time. Children may behave more erratically. Speculation can bring sudden gains and losses. You may tend to associate more with artistic, innovative, and eccentric friends.

URANUS TRANSITING YOUR 6TH HOUSE (approx. 7 years duration)
During this period you may tend to desire greater freedom and excitement in your work. You may be involved in union or group activities. You may use technological innovation in the work environment. Your employment situation tends to be unstable and you are prone to sudden changes of jobs. Health problems may be due to nervousness or eccentric tastes in diet. Favorable for computer, engineering, and health professions.

URANUS SQUARE YOUR MARS (Long-duration, 5-10+ weeks)
You may feel tense due to unexpected changes which make you subject to quarrels and outbursts of temper towards friends and colleagues. You may desire freedom at any cost. Discipline your rebellious originality, and use moderation and ingenuity in your actions. Avoid foolish risks which could cause accidents with explosives, machinery, or electricity.

Remember to read that interpretation by Robert Hand as well. Read everything you can about having the energies of Mercury in Pisces in the 6th house, Pluto in Virgo in the 12th, and your Mars in Sag in the 3rd house. Dont just read an excerpt of an interpretation, read it and apply the sign's energies and the planet's flow of those energies within your self and natal chart.

It isnt all bad. There are lots of 'good' aspects going on in your life as well! Balance and harmony are there for you, Johan.

In closing, there is an open thread about Pluto transits on the forum under the topic, 'natal and predictive astrology', I hope you will also read those posts and they help you as well. TC Wilson, Elianah, Baker, (just to name a few) and many others here are very generous in sharing their experience and insight if you have further questions and dont hesitate to ask them. Without any doubts, we all learn from this forum, no matter the level of experience and expertise or, the lack of it... :D

Ok, my Mars transiting my 5th house beckons and I must go fulfill the transit interpretation to the best of my ability!

MARS TRANSITING YOUR 5TH HOUSE (approx. 65 days duration)
The accent is on romance and fun. You'll enjoy barbecues, exhibitions, hobbies, games with children, and love affairs. You can perfect your creative skills, or entertain and amuse others. Design something artistic. Improve your lifestyle. If you're not in shape, don't try foolish stunts or living dangerously.

I just wont go skydiving... :wink:

Amazon1963

johan

12-17-2005, 02:29 PM

Thank you amazon!

A lot of reading to do,but i am looking forward to it
Would like your natal chart too

Lots of romance and fun with your mars in the fifth!

For everyone feel free to react and share your astrological
knowledge with me
For Sita,in what houses do you have the opposition mercury-pluto?

Amazon1963

12-17-2005, 09:00 PM

Johan,

You are quite welcome and I hope others may take the time to offer any other insight into your original question. I hope the information helps you to gain insight and keep your interest in continuing to learn astrology!

Here is my natal data, June 14, 1963 @ 18:25 EST, Augusta, Georgia, USA

Sita!!!!

Here is the link! Said I would keep looking and here you go!

http://www.astroscoped.com/astrology/astrology.html

Now I have no excuse not to cite my source on those notes!

Amazon1963

sita

12-19-2005, 10:06 PM

amazon and johan! hi, hi!
yay! i'm so excited about the new link!!! muchas gracias, my dear amazon. i'm one, too, (an amazon) but the universe put me in a tiny little body this time, i think, to try to get me tone it down a bit and atleast ATTEMPT to be a little more "civilized"... ahhh... the irony, but the package makes for quite a surprising wallop to patriarchy when so much direct force comes from such a cute little thing...

johann, my comrade in a mercury pluto opposition: to anwser your question, i have pluto in the eighth house conjunct libra true node, opposing my retrograde mercury, sun and south node in aries 2nd house. pluto here rocks my world.... over and over and over again. lots of dramatic changes, volatile emotions, and intense relationships, really, but it seems to be the seed for such incredible growth that i have to love it for what it makes of me.

the merc-pluto relationship makes me obscenely perceptive, psychoanalytical, passionate and blindsided in communication, and a mighty powerful speaker, which unfortunately can create opposition in others because i have some pretty unconventional views to go with this aspect with uranus in scorpio in the ninth house. i love the energy in terms of the the potency of the insight it gives TO me, but when that same potency is turned on others when my communication device is turned outward, it is too strong for most people who aren't generally into RECIEVING information as strongly as i am equipped to do. I forget this when i deal with people, and quite generally, it is terribly painful because i never really seem to make a light and graceful connect. writing and other indirect forms of expression (dance, singing, and visual arts) seem, really, to be my best option to expressing myself without insulting others...

what's it do for you?

johan

12-20-2005, 10:33 AM

Hi Sita!

What does this opposition do for me?
Well you are saying it,when I want to communicate(mercury) with other people to expres my thoughts(mercury)it comes out too strong(pluto).That is something I recognize.I am trying to overpower them immediately,and that has the opposit result!How it works out through the houses and signs combined with other aspects I don't know yet,is something i will try to learn by reading and this forum :oops:

For me a powerful transit is the square pluto makes with pluto natal,I am convinced of that because everything in my life is turned upside down:work ,visions,the place where i am living,relationships,how the world is looking today really,and what my responsibility is in the world etc. etc.
Sita,thanks for reacting!

Amazon1963

12-22-2005, 01:23 PM

Sita wrote:

i'm so excited about the new link!!! muchas gracias, my dear amazon. i'm one, too, (an amazon) but the universe put me in a tiny little body this time, i think, to try to get me tone it down a bit and atleast ATTEMPT to be a little more "civilized"... ahhh... the irony, but the package makes for quite a surprising wallop to patriarchy when so much direct force comes from such a cute little thing...

You are very welcome Sita! Glad I was able to locate it.

It is the life challenges that help to mold and create an 'Amazon', physical stature or strength, notwithstanding. Pick your 'fights' wisely and save those 'spears' for those most deserving of them. This is the wisdom that separates those who serve the problem and those who solve the problem! :wink:

Johan,

Appears as though you are definitely on the path to understanding Pluto and its effect on you through transits and natal positions! :D

Amazon1963

johan

12-22-2005, 03:01 PM

Hello Amazon!

Still learning...thank goodness there is a library:robert hand,stephen arroyo,liz greene...

The road goes ever on and on,down from the door where it began
Now far ahead the road has gone and I must follow if I can,
Pursuiing it with eager feet until it meets some larger way
Where many paths and errands meet and whither than I cannot say..

Recognize this..from which book?
Thanks amazon

Amazon1963

12-24-2005, 12:14 AM

Well Johan, I truly do not know what book/author wrote what you quoted. My first guess was Liz Greene, but, Arroyo and Hand, both also use quotes/poetry to reaffirm or assist their readers in understanding. It would appear that the entry 'resounded' within you and is inspiring. Introspection through astrology can be very enlightening and informative at the same time, huh?

Glad to hear that your local library offers some sort of a selection for you to use in your studies, that is a big plus! I'm unsure how one would order books online in the Netherlands, however, Amazon.com (no relation to me) has been tremendous in assisting my search for many books that are out of circulation and are considered valuable tools in astrology.

Be well!

Amazon1963

johan

12-24-2005, 01:07 AM

I have put you on the wrong track here,amazon!

It's from Tolkien,of 'The hobbit',the prelude of 'Lord of the rings'.These are favourite books of mine.Later on I red an esoteric explanation of these books by a dutch astrologer/writer,who explained among other things that a lot of the book was concerned with the role of pluto in the time we are living now.I found it applicable to use this quote :D

Ordering books on line is no problem in the Netherlands.By the way astro.com is great,very helpful,builded my chart already and combined it with the insights of Robert Hand,and compared my chart with charts of different persons I know.Explaining them is another thing,definitely gonna buy'planets in composition'by Robert Hand.

Be well too,Johan

Amazon1963

12-24-2005, 01:34 AM

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Johan,

No one appreciates a good laugh out loud than this Sag rising! I read the excerpt and was like...uhhhhhh :? Work and play time are taking their tolls on my brain these days.

Greene, Hand and Arroyo, all three are usually very technical in their approaches to astrology! I think thats what threw me off track, that and just mental fatigue! They will use quotes and some spiritual approach but most of their work is from a scientific approach.

Ok, LOTR and the excerpt make a lot more sense to me now! I am envisioning the hairy lil' Hobbit feet now making their journey to Mordor! I can also 'see' how it resonates for you as you begin your own 'journey' in learning astrology. Perhaps later on you might start a discussion on the subject.

Interesting how the astrologer made the correllation with Tolkien's work and Pluto. Certainly many symbolic meanings of the events, character crisis/resolutions and their personalities are glaringly evident, even to those not trained in literary analysis or astrology. Cosmic energies and cycles are there if we look for them and their correllations with both the individual and the collective at large.

Awesome that you wont have problems ordering books! 8) Astrodienst is a wonderful site indeed and so is our own Astrology Weekly hosted by Radu! He has very generously supplied many interpretations for aspects, energies of the signs, etc. I for one, am very grateful for his work... :)

Amazon1963

John_Charles_Webb

12-26-2005, 05:37 PM

hello!
i have pluto 23 virgo in my 12th house and mercury 23 pisces in my 6th
I have just 'experienced' the pluto transite on 23th sagittarius I think
making squares to this opposition.Can someone give me more information about this(maybe someone who has experienced this too :wink: )

Johan,36 years and living in the netherlands
COMPLIMENTS for Radu for this forum!very interesting have to read very much of the discussions in the forum,I am reading a lot of astrology on the internet and in books had this interest longer but now it has my full attention and i am going to follow astrology lessons soon

Pluto squares dig up disfunctional patterns from deep within the psyche (the 'underworld'). Especially when Mercury is involved. The patterns can be anger, dishonesty, cruelty, etc.
When Pluto squares natal Pluto it can reveal profound corruption on the soul level that must be eliminated because these patterns of corruption tether us to pain and dysfunction.
Pluto encourages us to embrace an ideal and to express that ideal and to become it.

johan

12-28-2005, 12:07 AM

John_Charles_Webb

12-28-2005, 03:54 PM

Thanks jcw for your insights,

But can you or anyone else can say something more of this opposition in connection with the houses and signs of this opposition.In my case pluto-12th-virgo/mercury- 6th-pisces,which is triggered by the square pluto?
It has turned everything upside down and i mean EVERYTHING(although uranus is also important i think,when it entered my 6th house and like amazon1963 wrote making a square with natal mars)

Any insights are welcome!!!

Same answer with additional info.
Pluto in the 12th house blocks all escape routes, it presents issues which MUST be handled.. The 12th house is your house of 'karma'. Virgo is primarily related to your physical body (mutable earth). Mercury in the 6th house (natural placement of Virgo) relates also to your body (a 'servant' of your spirit / indwelling consciousness). So, if your birth time is accurate then you should be experiencing some kind of re-evaluation about how you treat your body (diet, exercise, relaxation, etc.).
The Pluto transit (squaring both natal pluto and natal mercury) should bring up some "seeds" (thought patterns in this instance) from deep within the subconscious (pluto 'underworld') that will eventually harm you if left unattended.
If the square is affecting you in another area, other than physical health, then (opinion) it is likely that your birth time is incorrect. For instance, if you are experiencing issues with your spouse or significant other it suggests that the pluto/mercury opposition is in your 1st and 7th houses.
Or if the issues come up in groups and children (or artistic creations) then the 11th and 5th houses are involved.
If you are absolutely certain of your birth time then (opinion) the issues that the transiting pluto will raise should be regarding your physical health habits and your body.
Without more information, this is my conclusion.

If you are uncertain of your birth time then you can use the pluto transit as an opportunity to rectify your birth chart.
Pluto squares are powerful transits, there should be no doubt regarding what areas of life (houses) are being affected.

johan

01-01-2006, 03:01 PM

JCW,thanks for your reply

This is absolutely correct,JCW!
That is indeed the first thing that happened.It brought up the health issues in my life and maybe the current transit of uranus entering my 6th house
has also to do with it
I started to read a book of a dutch astrologer who wrote a book 'medical astrology'(in dutch)where she also explains the degrees in connection with parts of the body(ebertin did describe this degrees).
I started comparing them with natal charts of my family.
My aunt had a serious illness with her thyroid gland and she had jupiter on that degree(17 taurus)
My uncle had a serious problem with his hipps and he has a planet on that degree(2 sagittarius)
My sister was born with a broken keybone and has a planet on this degree(13 gemini)
So my chart is definitely right!
Thanks for your reply because I had not made the connection with the 6th house!

John_Charles_Webb

01-01-2006, 09:55 PM

JCW,thanks for your reply

This is absolutely correct,JCW!
That is indeed the first thing that happened.It brought up the health issues in my life and maybe the current transit of uranus entering my 6th house
has also to do with it snipped for brevity

**************************************************

Happy New Year, Johan, and everybody!

The next step is to 'repair' or heal the condition revealed by the transit.

The 'condition' will diminsh as the square dissolves. The transit simply put a 'seed' under a microscope. The next step is to remove the 'seed' and to replace it with 'perfect radiant health'.

One of the main objectives of astrology (opinion) is to remove problematic conditions. Because Mercury is involved, one of the healing methods is to 're-think' the situation and erase it from your mind (Mercury - mental focus). In addition to any life-style changes that may be required.

FORGET biology and any DNA connection with your family history (regarding their health issues). Belief in the healing power of the mind is important here.

I suggest that you hold up a picture (to impress or impregnate the sub-conscious) of perfect radiant health and embrace that ideal as a passionate goal. Give yourself(continually) the feeling of perfect radiant health and your circumstances WILL CHANGE to make it happen. You will have new impulses coupled with new ideas and new events that will make your vision a reality. You must, never-the-less ,co-operate fully with the new stream of consciousness that you set into motion to make it happen.

To just accept the 'condition' as 'the way things are' will not benefit you.

The transit is delivering a gift to you, it is showing you a corruption in your psyche that is to be removed. (been there, done that !)
By envisioning (daily) how you want your body to be you are providing personal power a 'path' (picture) to follow... and it will!
Stay with it until your health goals are accomplished.

Energy flows where our attention goes. Once you accomplish this (and you will) you will experience a re-birth. Daily you will notice the positive effects of your new image of yourself, as your study and knowledge of astrology gradually restores your mastery over your circumstances.

Be Well!

.

johan

01-01-2006, 11:14 PM

John_Charles_Webb

01-02-2006, 03:49 AM

JCW,

Thanks for the clear explanation.
This all makes a lot of sense to me,this is really helpful.
Tomorrow I shall read your website on the star of bethlehem,took already a quick glance but now i am really getting curious...

************************************************

There is a great deal of information on the site... it can take quite a while! http://www.templeofsolomon.org

I want to share one additional comment regarding our discussion.

The 12th house deals with 'secret enemies' and our discussion is an excellent example of how a powerful transit of a natal 12th house planet (sun and moon also) can reveal a 'secret (otherwise hidden) enemy' that
is hidden somewhere within the depths (a square) of the psyche.

In order to fully recognize the culprit, it is important to have an idealized picture of ourselves so we can make the necessary adjustments to correct and/or vanquish the 'secret enemy'. In this case the secret enemy was a physical health issue and was, somewhat, easy to recognize because we know what "excellent" is and is not.

The key is in understanding the exaulted nature of the astrological archetypes and comparing them with any issues that arise from hard aspects in the birth chart and by transits.

As such, astrology is a path to wholeness that continues until "Humpty Dumpty" is reassembled and eternity is revealed to the renewed consciousness! Astrology.... Man's first 'religion' and the pantheon of Gods and Goddesses who guide us out of the labyrinth.

Best Regards.

johan

01-03-2006, 12:27 AM

JCW,
Again this is very helpful and very clear,and i can really understand this and do something with it(but it ain't easy you know)

have made a start reading your website but,like you said,this is gonna take a while!(and i am dutch,so the language is also a barrier)

But thanks,glad you are on the forum :pc:

John_Charles_Webb

01-03-2006, 01:23 AM

johan

01-03-2006, 01:51 AM

No sorry,doesn't work,a lot of languages here,also german but no dutch.But doesn't matter,i'll manage to read it,just takes a little more time and effort!Besides,my english is not perfect,but i'll bet it is better than your dutch!It is not like crossing the eye of the needle for me in this case....

Lapis

01-03-2006, 01:54 AM

John_Charles_Webb

01-03-2006, 10:51 AM

John C. Webb,

I just wanted to mention how your discussion with johan has helped me also. I have Pluto in 6 natally and currently transiting Neptune is within orb of an opposition to it from 12, hence my listening in on your conversation! And later transiting Saturn will conjunct natal Pluto ..... while transiting Pluto moves towards my Sun in 10. The fun never ends.

Seriously, I'm exhausted both on the surface and deep down on the inside, and I know this whole business is just going to get more intense before it gets better. I guess I'm just feeling the need to complain out loud about all of this seemingly unending transformation and little deaths. I should be grateful for all of it! (I am really.)

*****************************

Hi Lapis!

The applying Neptune opposition is going to last quite a while! Because Pluto is associated with 'regeneration' and Neptune transiting your 12 house of 'secret enemies' opposing your natal 6th house Pluto ... you too are probably going to be hmmm... 'guided' to taking better care of yourself. Perhaps a change in diet, less processed foods, less chemical additives, more natural foodstuffs... exercise, getting the diet closer to 'the earth's natural produce.... fruits and vegetables, organic stuff.

The transiting Saturn conjunct natal Pluto and natal sun, etc., should be beneficial also. Perhaps increased job responsibility or a promotion or even a new job?. It will be intense however, 'letting go of being attached' will greatly reduce any stress. Pluto and Saturn 'do us' so letting go of control issues is mandated.

All of it will (opinion) help you to disintegrate any 'rut stuff' (if present) but it will 'amp up the energy' both good and other.... so some pruning may be necessary to keep your sanity! Saturn will provide more focus and the Pluto will provide the POWER... make sure you are aimed in the right (self actualization, fulfillment, satisfaction) direction! and don't be afraid to take a calculated risk(s), guided by ethics and your sense of personal worth.

Set aside a good measure of time for relaxation (balance) to ease any intensity. It will keep you from going bonkers and assist greatly in creating a sense of organization. Know when to say 'stop' and when to ask for help.

:shock:

01-03-2006, 06:16 PM

:arrow: Happy inner space/time & matter/anti-matter continuum!

New year for this taurus always begins in the spring....

I agree with J_C_Webb -- the *intention* to re-connect
with organic earth's embrace, and to build our immune
system and eat green food, organic herbs and fruits and
veggies, etc....
is very healing and important now.

Tr chiron/venus and centaurs and asteroids are big help.

It's all cosmic (i.e. inner wisdom embraces all)....

I was exhausted, too...momentarily, Lapis, so I'm glad to
reply now to shared wave of energy...

Here's a link to Pam Leigh Power's article about an especially propitious double sesqui- and Finger of Goddess :lol: transit for us baby-boomers who have an opportunity
to rally our forces and focus on transforming something that's been
stuck our w h o l e lives.... whatever was implanted in our early
childhood that is a "poison arrow" in our psyches...something that's
simply not the truth....

So, once and for all....now,
during this lead-up to the nice February venus direct and pluto cj
gc and solar eclipse....and the dissipation of the fixed grand cross....
what do you
think about this?
http://www.acumind.com/Pam/sesqui.html

Sorry if this is off-topic... :oops:
C1

Lapis

01-05-2006, 12:47 AM

John C. Webb,

Thanks SO much for all you said and for being so descrete -"guided" as you put it! That was kind and funny because it's far from "guided" but more like....... Hey lady, end of one way of being so change fast or it's going to get REAL ugly!!! :lol: It's unbelievable. But you're gentleness was highly appreciated.

Since 1998 (Photon Light contact again) being physical has taken on a new intensity bordering on - am I going to be able to pull this off and survive physically? It's been so extreme that it's hard for me to take it all in some times! Here's an example of some of what I'm talking about and the current transits are just pushing it all to the breaking point. Maybe that's what's required now for some of us however?

Over the past almost 9 years I've been experiencing so many extreme and new physical problems like......ultra sensitivity to most all foods, chemicals in general (both in foods and in the environment), sounds, light, smells, electromagnetic energies, energies emanating from technical devices (microwave ovens and cell phones etc.) and more. I can barely make it through most stores because they make me so sick and uncomfortable. It's embarrassing! The worst problems now are the chemical sensitivity in both foods and in the environment.

Nearly everything I eat makes me feel horrible, ill, etc. I take no drugs (Pisces ASC) and I've never drank because I simply can't. But it seems like this envirnoment is making me sick no matter what I do and how careful I must be now. I can smell things that other's can't and these smells make me feel sick to my stomach. Food/eating has become a huge 'pain' and even though I eat very little each day, it's still a big guessing game over what will make me sick today if I eat it?!

You're totally right about eating processed foods, chemical additives, man-made nastiness in most everything. Some days just smelling some foods makes me feel ill for hours. I'm used to being a sensitive but this is beyond belief! It's time to eat Light maybe? :wink: BUT, you said something that made a lot of sense for me at a deeper level with all of this business and for that, I'm extremely grateful. With just the right word from the right person at the right time, all the pieces fall into place and make sense. I can deal with anything when this finally happens. Thanks for doing this for me now.

Also want to mention that I just discovered the link to your site and I intend to do some reading! The list of titles sound very intriguing. Glad you shared this with us here. Thanks again for all your help with these whopper transits I'm dealing with.

Lapis

01-05-2006, 12:56 AM

:taurus2: Hi C1,

Glad to see you're back after the holidays :) . I need to also read your Pam Leigh Powers article, it too sounds interesting. Just not enough hours each day to do all that I'd like to anymore...... :?

01-05-2006, 01:57 AM

Lapis,
Hi
Best wishes for a healing year.
These challenging physical transitions and
confounding sensitivities
are common
here in usa, unfortunately.
Be well, dear Lapis.

Yes, I am interested in the possibility of
pulling up and throwing away
my own poison arrows that have been embedded
in my psyche since childhood,
as Pam Powers recommends... :)

thank you for your constant,
revelatory honesty.

C1

John_Charles_Webb

01-05-2006, 04:19 AM

Lapis! Yes!!!

Thank you for your honesty. You are most welcome and it is very pleasing to me that I was able to offer you something valuable.

As for myself, I live on the Island of Maui in Hawaii. The air is clean and fresh and nature makes her most stunningly beautiful statement. Doors, patios and windows are open all year around with flowers blooming everywhere regardless of what the calendar says.

I mentioned this because it seems that it is time for you to seek refuge in (perhaps) a more natural and nourishing environment.

I too have felt many of the distressing chemical complications (Neptune - ruler of the Piscean Age and ruler of chemicals and gasses, etc.) and the 'dark side' of the Neptunian cosmology. Very few people realize that they are hmmmm... 'living' in a gas chamber and have enough chemicals under the kitchen sink to wipe out the neighborhood.

(Rant - please forgive me, in advance) Chemicals in our soaps, on our floors, on our pets, in our cars, on our lawns, in our hair, in the food chain, in our rivers, resevoirs, air, lakes and oceans - chlorine laced drinking water, all now coupled with a fear-based medical system built exclusively upon chemical medications. The Dow Jones Index lists most of the eco-terrorists and we now have handicapped ramps on all of our public buildings. Neptune's shadow is running wild. (End of Rant - smooth will now continue).

You just gotta pull up stakes, re-read Waldon Pond and find great joy and refuge in a more natural setting. The 10th house transits are opposing your 4th house (home, psychological base) and can act like a tow truck pulling you (perhaps) out of a quagmire (urban environment?).
{Wow, thats 47 points for 'quagmire'!}

It is time, in my opinion, for an archetypal 'leap of faith'. As you consider the 'leap' the 4th house (opposing the 10th house transits) psychological base(ment) (the archetypal 'clown car' of consciousness) :twisted: will provide you with 500 zillion reasons (fear based and other cleverly disguised machinations) why you should remain hmmmmmm... 'crucified' (opinion - another Neptunian machination).

So, as you well know, the journey is one of 'liberation' ("I came, I saw, I left") and once you make the decision... doors will open that weren't there before. There are still many places in the world that are pristine. So, perhaps the 10th house transits aren't really about your 10th house! The transits are about transforming your (opposing) 4th house psychological base/home and liberating you from the madness of a hallucinating 'Civilization'.

So (end game) the question is "Is Juda$ still betraying the indwelling light"? Here, let me push you off of the diving board! :-)

Go for it! Transiting Pluto is about regeneration (in this instance)... now that I have more information about your circumstances. You are not 'sick' you are waking up and getting well. Sometimes 'going sane' feels like going crazy....... You will find paradise after this temporary 'purgation'.

No hitting! :-)

Lapis

01-05-2006, 11:31 PM

John C. Webb,

Your last post was again so meaningful for me, I just sat here reading it and grinning from ear to ear going, "uha uha uha!" :mrgreen: The main thing you said that hit me between the eyes (what a great place to get hit!) was something I'd not made a complete connection with. So silly - but so meaningful to me. It was.......The 4th house. But first....

Maui??? You tropical paradise dawg! :wink: Good for you for doing the Work in that magical place. I'm happy for you. Send the next sunset a heart blessing from me OK?

Also I enjoyed your mini rant and I totally agree with it all. Neptune's Shadow indeed and it isn't finished quite yet either I'm afraid! Hopefully a good long stint in Aquarius will help a lot with this.

Last night I spent a good bit of time at your site reading. Reading here and there and getting brain-pain trying to get through all the math type business (it makes me sweaty, always has) but it all was deeply interesting and educational. I'll eventually read it all. By chance have you read the scant things I've mentioned here about a 'past life' memory I've had for most of this life? Boy could we have some interesting conversations about ancient (beginning of the Age of Leo) Egypt and the direct connection with some Star Family as I call some of Them! http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/5228/egyptianface6tj.gif

Back to the 4th house...... "the archetypal 'clown car' of consciousness....." http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/2402/kickinglaugh0ta.gif

Let's take this to another level OK, because what you said to me laid my 'situation' out so perfectly, so accurately, so simply I had to laugh! Here's what I'm getting at: what if this 10/4 house transit of Pluto in Sag (moving in on the Galactic Center) in my 10th. since Jan. 2001, making most of this transit as you so accurately intuited more about my 4th house than my 10th? I think it is! You added the last ingredient to this strange mix of energetics. Maybe the main focus for me with this transit is my 4th house/Home..........

"I came, I saw, I left" you said and it's that last part, the I left part, that's been so physically and emotionally painful and difficult for me personally since 1998. JCW, I am slowly leaving! (No, no, not dying physically even though it feels like it much of the time.) Many, many of us are and will be. I've known for most of this life that this one's it! if I do all I've needed to do. The time's right, the huge cycles are finishing and aligning etc. and many will discover that we've left Home in a nice new way.

I've wanted for some time now to get into this aspect of the so-called 'ascension' process and see it through the eyes of Astrology, but in a more individual way as apposed to just the Great Age changes. I've wanted to start a thread about this very subject/process in the Age of Aquarius forum but it was still rather cloudy to me. Your last post really nailed so much of this. I think we're on to something big and new (astrologically) in relation to these current transits so many of us are going through but......they're functioning right into another dimension!Transition between realms/realities/dimensions/"quagmire's" :wink: etc.

I've worked for so long to get to this point, this moment in time, where I can joyfully make that "leap of faith" you mentioned. Many of us will be making it between now and 2012 I feel. See what your great words did? :D No hitting! :mrgreen: Come back....

John_Charles_Webb

01-06-2006, 02:12 AM

Back to the 4th house...... "the archetypal 'clown car' of consciousness....." http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/2402/kickinglaugh0ta.gif

Let's take this to another level OK, because what you said to me laid my 'situation' out so perfectly, so accurately, so simply I had to laugh! Here's what I'm getting at: what if this 10/4 house transit of Pluto in Sag (moving in on the Galactic Center) in my 10th. since Jan. 2001, making most of this transit as you so accurately intuited more about my 4th house than my 10th? I think it is! You added the last ingredient to this strange mix of energetics. Maybe the main focus for me with this transit is my 4th house/Home.......... portions snipped for poignancy :angel:

Lapis!

I sensed the Egyptian connection by your name (lapis).

To get the most out of the 10th house power transit re-vamping your 4th house 'home/psychological base' there is one MAIN issue that you MUST eliminate.
You have been in a "purgative cycle" and it will continue forever UNLESS you hold up some new pictures! The 'purgative cycle' is like trying to throw away a trash can. You put it at the curb and the trash pick-up guys always leave it because its YOUR TRASH CAN! :shock:

Thge psychological base needs some new 'images' in order for it to bring forth something new into the 3D reality. This is the 'magic' part of astrology! You must end grappling with your 'archive' because that's what the hmmmm 'cosmos' believes that you want to do.... so it keeps repeating the same patterns....... a purgative 'cycle'.

You are also getting in touch with the 'death wish' (deep within the psychological base) which is unconsciously yearning for an ego death that perversely manifests as a physical conundrum resembling physical 'death'. every day...every day...every day.... Power does not distinguish between good and evil, these are subjective (ego based) issues, you are using your power to remain in a purgative way and the 'trash can' always remains at the curb!

CREATE A NEW PERSON! DESIGN AND CONTEMPLATE THIS SUPER, SELF-ACTUALIZED INDIVIDUAL WHO IS PERFECTLY HEALTHY, ABUNDANT, ENLIGHTENED AND TALENTED. The crone has GOT to go!

A little story.......

Mother Theresa knows and loves God....
deep in prayer she asks God for her to be able to heal lepers,
God speaks and says, "Mother, you want to heal lepers"? "Are you sure"?
Mother Theresa replys, "Yes Lord, I really weant to heal lepers"!
God then says, "OK ! Tomorrow I will create 10,000 lepers for you"! :shock:

Lapis! Healing is linked to sickness..... get off the purgative wheel and install a new operating system! Envision perfect wholeness, etc., and re-program your psychological base. Stay with it until it becomes 'fixed' , a done deal... it MUST happen, it is cosmic law. It is the way that things work. If you fervently try this contemplation exercise, and move with the flow that you generate then you will get the result that you desire.

Every time that you look at your birth chart you are imprinting your sub-conscious with an obsolete version of you. Your sub-conscious reproduces that person and the trash men continue to leave it at the curb.

Key: VENUS RULES TAURUS. IF YOU WANT THE WORLD TO CO-OPERATE WITH YOUR DREAM YOU GOTTA LOVE THE WORLD, LOVE THE EARTH, LOVE YOUR BODY, LOVE IT ALL! UNCONDITIONALLY!

This 'loving context' introduces the process called "The Return of the Goddess". Everybody gets off of their cultural crucifixes and starts to dance. Moses enters paradise, the Buddha returns to the palace, Mopther Theresa 'snaps out of it" and the trash guys remove the trash can with the trash, and the nightmare is over. :shock:

Lapis

01-06-2006, 11:29 PM

John C. Webb,

Again, thanks so much for all of your insights and wise advice. I get it. About 3 months ago I got what your talking about. It was a harsh realization that after the worst, hardest, most painful 8+ years of my whole intense life.........I HAD to un-victim-ize myself from the profoundly intense experiences/transformations I'd been living through! I had to get over the sort of post traumatic stress disorder like **** (how was that!) caused by the actual primary extended transformations. :| Geeeesh I tell ya, like the original 'stuff' wasn't enough!!!

I have a Libra stellium in the 8th so I should, at this point in the Game, be well familar with the fine Art of Releasing! This last one has been the deepest and most difficult of my life. But like I said, I did finally get it or as you put it "snap out of it" no matter how huge, painful, difficult or whatever.........let it go my child and fly free. You survived the stinking Transformative Fires, now go play and create anew! But first you've got to release your wounds and trauma's from having gone through the Transformative Fires!

There are so many layers and levels of 'transformation' and this one has been multi-layered and much more, but there it is and I must move on into my new life/reality/being etc. And so I am. I'm not going to blow the past 12,600+ year cycle at this late date! Thanks again for your very valuable perspective. :)

sita

01-18-2006, 11:56 PM

johan,
i wanted to ask you how you are coming in your pluto/mercury work? i am asking because i share this pluto opposition, along with a pluto/sun opposition, and a pluto/venus quincunx. all with pluto in the eighth house. it is hard for me right now and i was wondering if , in your experience, you had any insights you may have arrived at that you thought were positive on the matter?
thanks if you can,
sita

johan

01-19-2006, 06:21 PM

Hi Sita,

Apparently nowadays the influence of pluto is very strong,transforming the world and people.

For me personally it is making a square to its natal position in my birthchart,which is in the 12th house
And it is making a square to natal mercury in my 6th house.

So it is also triggering this opposition in my birthchart between mercury and pluto and, JCW was right,an important issue in my life is health.
I am now very much aware of the necessity of improving my health.
That is why I asked the horary question concerning the dentist,because I have to do something about it soon.

So I think this can be positive if I take action,or negative if I don't do something about it!

I think you already know a lot of this pluto/mercury thing,re-reading your comment on that!But I cannot help you directly of explaining your astrological situation,simply because I am a(very beginning) student in astrology,and absolutely no teacher!

I hope to be of more help in the future (and the other way around)

Be well Sita!

BTW,where is Amazon1963,hope she is doing well....

Amazon1963

01-22-2006, 01:31 AM

Johan wrote:

So I think this can be positive if I take action,or negative if I don't do something about it!

Right on target! Keep learning and certainly treat your health issues as priorities!

Busy, busy here enjoying my time as a participant in the 'sandwich' generation (ill and aging parents/grandparent and a young adult child in college) and in between I still manage to build a business... :D Good thing I'm an amazon, huh?

Sita,

Is the Pluto opposition Sun a natal aspect or transiting aspect for you? I have several years left to deal with it as a transiting aspect. The aspect even pops up in about 3 more years of solar returns as well. Gotta love ol' Pluto to shake you up a bit. Further, to add to that interesting mix, transiting Pluto opposition Moon. I think I may have landed on the 'who' as far as the Plutonian person(s), recently discovered each parental figure who I am dealing with is a Scorpio rising. Each of them has major 'control issues' as well.

Open question here...isnt there something about certain 'types' or 'themes' running astrologically through family hierarchies??

Be well all,

Amazon1963

sita

01-23-2006, 04:33 PM

Amazon,
Glad to have you back. Honestly, I don't even KNOW what's up with my pluto. I don't know enough about transits to really understand, yet. I think I'm creeping on a pluto square my natal pluto, but I miight also have transiting Pluto opposition Moon.?????? I'm embarassed about how little I know about astrology. I just sort read peoples posts and articles and watch my life to try to make sense from there.

The real challenge for me now is a saturn return into H7 leo gunking up with chiron, mercury, and venus who are all squaring my natals bringing up huge wounds regarding self worth, and old family issues and watching how they affect relationships. Heart and body wounds, and the crazy things I do to cover them up (neptune) are becomming uncovered... leaving me... exactly where I am, but for the best. I am learning megaloads everyday. My Jupiter transit into H9 Uranus in Scorpio is also kicking me into finding the guts to KNOW THE TRUTH and find it for myself, which hopefully will get less scary with practice.

You have both parents with scorpio rising, eh? That's quite intense. Where is your natal pluto? And what's in scorpio for you, if you don't mind my inquiry? I'm mildly obessed with Pluto... because I have seen it rock my life for best and worse and am not sure I know what to make of it. I had an ex I was very intimate with who has Scorpio rising. I saw the extremes of that position during a Neptune transit and it scared the sh*t out of me. I feel warped and confused on account of what I experienced, but infinietly richer, nonetheless.

Regarding your
"Open question here...isnt there something about certain 'types' or 'themes' running astrologically through family hierarchies??"
Could you re-phrase that? I would love to consider it and chat, but I'm not entirely sure what you mean.

Bye for now,
Sita

Lapis

01-23-2006, 07:59 PM

Amazon1963,

Hi and glad to see you again! After just reading both your and sita's posts, I had to say what great jobs both of you seem to be doing. And yes, your amazon qualities sound like they're helping you a lot with all that you're dealing with!

sita,

We've never spoken before but after reading your post I wanted to say that you should be proud of all the intense inner work you're doing now and not running away from it! I'm having a Heart moment because of the 2 of you! There's nothing more fab than when we get ourselves free! To you both....
http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/1265/giveflowers1vb.gif

sita

01-23-2006, 11:22 PM

Lapis,
too.......tired............to...........be........ ...proud.... ...must.............keep...............going...... ...

JOKING,
.... well, ...sort of

Lapis, thank you thank you thank you.!!! I am so glad to connect, cause I've been watching you and love you for what you do. You made my night. Your encouragement feels SO good right now, like breath of the freshest air, and more than enough to rejuice me for a while. Here's to carrying those sweet winds home,. :driving:

Amazon... I must have been blitzed when I read your post before.... but that's what I get for squeezing astrologyweekly into my lunchbreak. Your question about my pluto/sun did not even "blip" on my radar screen. Sorry. I have natal pluto (H8 Libra) opposing my sun and my mercury in H3 Aries, with chiron and venus just a few degrees aw ay in Taurus.

Keep up the good work, ladies... we've come so far its incredible.

my chart:
http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?nhor=1&nho2=3&btyp=24&mth=gw&hsy=&zod=&add=18&add=19&add=20&add=22&add=12&add=13&add=14&add=15&sday=24&smon=1&syr=2006&rs=&orbp=&cid=8d3filegbpf9Z-u1132608114&lang=e&gm=a1&ast=

Amazon1963

01-24-2006, 02:45 PM

Thank you Lapis! Appreciate the affirmations!

Sita,

What a fascinating chart you have! I hope you have posted your natal data and some open questions about it to the Natal thread. Interesting the intercepted houses in 1st and 7th. I truly havent the time at the moment to do any indepth studies on it.

Honestly? I have no formal training in astrology and consider myself an active novice on the subject. So, in my novice opinion, I think the more aspected transits of Jupiter in the 9th and Uranus in the 1st house are 'awakening' you more so than Pluto is at the moment. Dont be afraid, its all just part of the process of maturing. I think you are ready for some personal growth and introspection on a deeper level. This doesnt mean ignore Pluto transits, just I think the Uranus is stronger right now.

Some time back I had posted on this forum when Saturn was moving into Leo; there was quite a ruckus and people feeling concerned and yet they freely espoused precisely what they were concerned about in terms of Saturn's effects. Ahem, hello??? If you already 'know' what needs to be fixed? Then isnt forewarned being forearmed? If your finances are in disarray..fix them! If your love life is filled with people who arent mature, loving, supportive or constructive...why are you still with them? It just struck me that they feared the 'unknown' and yet, there it was staring them in the face what they needed to address in the first place without Saturn aspecting any of it. I guess those 'comfort zones' can also be traps if one isnt careful.

Sorry if I seem 'preachy' at the moment but its just 'common sense' sometimes and I think that astrology runs in cycles, these cycles are supposed to wake and shake us up, to make us grow. Growing pains can be uncomfortable and then when its all done, we look back and wonder what took us so long to take the path. For those who chose to remain without lessons being learned or steps taken...they dont grow and become who they may have been. This is why the charts show and hold the potential energies but its the person who makes the choices.

I have had Saturn transit my 7th house and I'm still upright with a pulse...and I learned a great deal about wearing 'rose colored' glasses when viewing partners and even family members. Learned about who I had been involved with, why the involvement, where it went or was going, and what did I intend to do about it if the relationship wasnt working or I wasnt happy being in it.

When transits seem their toughest to cope or grow through? Those are the ones you personally needed the most. This is why no one's chart is like anyone else's, it is uniquely you and yours alone, no one else!

Both of my parents and my paternal grandmother are all Scorpio rising (everyone else has passed on, but 3 others were also strong Plutonian types as well and my daughter has a very strong Pluto 1st house in Libra :shock: )...I can surmise the situation as...control issues, manipulation, and more control issues...then you throw in a rebellious, free spirited, and very forthright Sag rising Amazon and whoa Nellie it can get real interesting...Especially when I tire of the head games... :wink: I would like to state that not ALL Scorpio's rising use negative aspects in their charts to manipulate, control, etc...Its just that right now it seems to be highlighted with my family members. Perhaps its just my transits that have 'awakened' me to the issues at hand. :idea:

Keep in mind that oppositions, though considered to be unharmonious, can also be thought of as challenges to growth and achievement...I think you can relate to this. Maybe its the Libra energy applied to Pluto that keeps your Aries Sun and Mercury from overwhelming your sense of values and others. Keeps things balanced through these challenges and helps you to grow as a young adult.

My natal Pluto is 9 degrees Virgo in the 9th house...here is my chart and transits:

http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?nhor=1&nho2=2&btyp=24&mth=gw&hsy=&zod=&sday=24&smon=1&syr=2006&rs=&orbp=&cid=or1filewvmrJb-u1079284496&lang=e&gm=a1&ast=

Transiting Pluto on the 1st house...There is a big thread on Pluto transits here somewhere that I started.

You have natal Pluto in opposition to the Sun and Merc...I have Mercury and Venus squaring and opposing just about all the other Planets, exception is Neptune and I dunno why that one isnt squared too. Come on! Join the party! The water is nice and warm!
:lol:

"Open question here...isnt there something about certain 'types' or 'themes' running astrologically through family hierarchies??"
Could you re-phrase that? I would love to consider it and chat, but I'm not entirely sure what you mean.

Dont worry too much on it, I am not sure of what I was asking either... :lol: Give me time though, I will figure it out and post... 8)

Sita, go ahead and post under the natal thread with your chart and questions...See what different insights you receive from other far more learned members. You are in the right place to ask!

Duty calls yet again, so I'm off. Sita, I do hope this helped you a bit.

Amazon1963

Lapis

01-24-2006, 08:52 PM

IMHO, that was some major professional insights and counciling there Amazon! I swear, in my head right now, I just heard Tom Hanks in his Forest Gump voice say...."professional is as professional does!" :) I fear I just shared way too much yet again! :wink:

sita,

Your ......too....tired......must....keep....going.... made me laugh out loud when I first saw it! Aaahhh, so funny but man-oh-man can I relate. These transits are reeeely sumthin' I tell ya!

I'm glad I momentarily lightened you load so to speak. That's exactly what both your post and Amazon's did for me! We're all in this thing up to our Crown Chakra's at the moment, and it helps so much just knowing that other souls are out there going through the same horrible, difficult, wonderous, life improving, transformations that I am. We each are in our own ways now, but it sure is nice to get positive feedback from other souls in the middle of Alchemical Changes too.

Amazon1963

01-26-2006, 03:11 AM

Lapis,

Thank you. I'm just trying to help a bit is all and clarifying my own thought processes on life, astrology, and just plain down home 'common sense' type thinking. But, I thank you! Shows me that I am 'synthesizing and absorbing' the information appropriately and putting it to 'good use'.

Sita,

Since you are currently a 'Pluto Nut', as you put it...This thread is after all Pluto related....Relaxing a bit here this evening so I will take your chart as presented on Astrodienst and put interpretations from various sources and Robert Pelletier's book, Planets in Aspect. These are just natal aspects to Pluto in your chart only, not transiting aspects. I would recommend you read the forecast on Astrodienst to keep up with what is going on in your life regarding Uranus transits, etc, in your chart.

I am also gleaning some information for myself as well performing this task. Having encountered this very same aspect (Sun opposition Pluto) in multiple Solar Returns during pivotal years some time back and now again for the next few years to come yet. I really felt an empathy with the aspect of Sun opposing Pluto. This year and 3 more years to come and 3 prior Solar Returns featured the aspect and every year it was aspecting different person's and situations in my life. Once I understood the interpretation and reviewed over prior Returns and life experiences, it finally dawned on me and how best to handle the process internally and externally. I hope this helps you do the same...;)

Start with Pluto in the 8th house. Canopus offers this as their interpretation:
Pluto in the 8th house:
The planet of magnetic intensity, power and sex and in the house of death, the occult and sex.
Pluto is here in its own domain, which magnifies its intensity and magnetism, and also tends to give it an occult orientation.
There is likely to be a fascination with sex, at least during certain periods of life. The person is instinctively in touch with the energetic aspect of sex, and can well have magic experiences through sex. Sex can also be the trigger for realisations and inner transformations.
When in the 8th, Pluto (even more than Mars) is likely to indicate healing capacities. The native knows how to tap into deep, underground energies and forces to bring cure and regeneration.
Excellent for dowsing ley-lines and tuning into Earth energies.
Capacity to understand the hidden powers behind Nature. And also an innate desire to investigate them and find out the secrets behind creation - the 'instruction notice'.
Interest in the occult side of life, death and mysteries in general.
The Pluto concept of death and regeneration is likely to be particularly important and meaningful to the person. It can emphasise Pluto's tendency to undergo dramatic metamorphoses. Capacity to use one's will towards regeneration in the midst of intense crises.
Last but not least, Pluto in the 8th is one of the positions deemed favourable for inheritances and windfalls.

I would also add this based upon other material I've come across:

You have a strong drive toward achievement combined with a need to analyze what you do. Passionate and dominant in your sexual nature. Positive aspect: self-reliant and resourceful. Negative aspect: prone toward developing unhealthy obsessions. In other words, its what you chose to do with the Pluto energy, Sita.

Pluto in Libra is about Libran/Venusian energies and influence to bring about balance, harmony, peace, cooperation and the negative effects can bring about disruption to close relationships. This is not to say that you should subvert your needs or feelings in any relationship but keep in mind that sometimes we bring about disruptions ourselves alone. Again, its about choices. The energy is there and yours alone.

The Sun in the sign of Aries opposing Pluto in the 8th house. Well, the 2nd house is about a lot more than just money or possessions, it goes deeper into values. How a person values another, their values about material items, and so forth. The way they make things their own. The Sun is the planet/luminary representing vitality and the individual.

Canopus interprets:

Sun in Aries:
The Sun relates to one's purpose and deep inner motivation; Mars
(ruler of Aries) is to do with drive and direction. So the person
can have strong will-power and motivation, and a keen sense of their
individuality.
The Sun is exalted in Aries. The Sun and Mars being 2 planets of
fire, this position can indicate fiery qualities such as strong
desires, ambition, initiative, boldness, enthusiasm, dynamism,
assertiveness, and impulsiveness. The person can have the ability to
make decisions unhesitatingly. This position can give a 'crusader'
feeling - courageous, noble, ready to take action on someone else's
behalf.
There is also likely to be a strong vitality and libido.
Of course, none of this is absolute. Other factors in the chart must
be taken into account - especially aspects to the Sun and Mars.

Sun in the 2nd house:
The Sun in the house of earning money and one's system of values.
Traditional astrological symbolism suggests: earning money from
Sun-type things, or earning money in a Sun fashion.
1) Being in a position of leadership or teaching, top positions of
all kinds, taking responsibility.
2) Being helped by powerful people, spending generously or
ostentatiously.
As far as we are concerned, however, aspects to the Sun will be far
more significant than its position in this house.

Sun-Pluto opposition:
The Sun stands for the deepest in an individual; Pluto is the planet
of death and resurrection.
Some major transformations may be expected in this life. It can be a
total change of social, philosophical and spiritual horizons. In any
case the person's psyche is likely to undergo a radical turn at
least once during the incarnation.
This may come gradually, through a process of transformation, or be
brought about by some more sudden or even dramatic circumstances.
The more the native can understand and accompany the underground
forces that are pushing for change, the more the transformation can
be harmonious. If however, these underground forces are ignored,
then the transformation may turn into a painful metamorphosis in the
midst of tidal-wave changes in their material situation. Pluto
rarely does THINGS in half measures.
A feature essential to Pluto, however, is that it can come out
resurrected and more beautiful than ever from life circumstances
that would permanently shatter other individuals - like the phoenix,
reborn from its ashes.
There is in the Pluto-Sun combination an element of phenomenal
resistance and solidity which allows one to cope with infinitely
more than the average person can take. Even if they appear frail,
they have the potential to survive holocausts. Even if they appear
to be shattered, they will stand again, renewed and greater, at the
end of the turmoil.
Whether the aspect is harmonious or not, what is good about the
Sun-Pluto combination is that it is never shallow. It
counterbalances any other planetary combination of superficiality.
The native can go fully into things. His/her interests tend to be
consuming passions. (Pluto needs either to consume or be consumed.)
There is in Pluto an aspect of quest and seeking.
As soon as you see someone with an intense Pluto, you immediately
know that they are seeking something. The problem is of course that
it may take some time for the native to discover what it is that
he/she is searching for.
There is in Pluto an aspect which draws towards mysteries, a
fascination for that which is hidden. This can manifest in a
Sherlock Holmes way - the investigation of enigmas of various kinds.
On a higher level, it can also prove one of most solid foundations
for a long lasting spiritual quest.
Whether it shows or not, it is likely that a high pressure of
intensity is at work within the native's psyche. Their emotions are
like nuclear explosions, but often underground ones, so that even
their closest friends may not realise what is happening in them.
Sometimes the intensity is so deep and hidden that the native
himself/herself may not completely acknowledge it.
If you think of the Sun-Mars combination as relating to the will par
excellence, and of Pluto as a transcended Mars, you can imagine the
potential of power that is contained in the Sun-Pluto association.
How much the native will come in touch with this potential depends
on whether he/she will be able to face himself/herself and
comprehend the abysmal intensity that lies within.
Many people with a strong Pluto have a full, intuitive,
understanding of their emotional self, and extremely sharp insights
into others. However, just as Pluto abducted Persephone underground,
so the Plutonic temperament can also have an amazing ability to hide
feelings even from themselves. When this is the case, then entire
parts of the personality can be eclipsed, and the native can walk on
the planet for decades without ever getting in touch with them. This
results in particular in their purpose in life (Sun) remaining
completely hidden, until such time as a massive transformation
period.
If your partner has this aspect, then be ready to match their
intensity. Something in themselves will starve if they perceive you
as shallow and unable to meet them. Perhaps you need to discover
your own Pluto side and learn to relate to them on this deep level.
In any case, do not expect to be taken seriously by them if you can
never display a certain 'voltage' of belly force.
You may also play an extremely positive role in their life by
facilitating the discovery of the hidden facets of themselves. Pluto
must transform or die, or often both at once. But the dramatic or
even tragic side of the transformations could often be significantly
alleviated if the person was able to get in touch early with the
'eclipsed' parts of themselves - those which will push for drastic
changes in order to reveal themselves. The more the native can
consciously give birth to these hidden parts, the less there is a
need for painful transitions.

Lots of powerful energy in both the 2nd and 8th house, Sita. Keep in mind about oppositions, that they are only as disharmonious as you chose them to be. In other words, instead of viewing something occurring as a problem, view it as an opportunity. An opportunity to learn and be better than what you are at that very moment. Learning takes time. Remember too, that learning is a lifelong process. Just when you think you have some obstacle overcome, here comes another one. This is Pelletier's interpretation of Sun opposition Pluto as a natal aspect:

The Sun in opposition to Pluto shows that you are defensive when challenged by others. In competition you resort to extreme measures to guarantee winning. You generally assume that your opponent has more power than you and that your own position is insecure. If it becomes obvious that you cannot win, you may turn your back on the threat and pretend it doesn't exist.

Nothing bothers you as much as being unsure of a situation. At times you will strike first, hoping to protect yourself, only to regret you imprudent action. At other times, you will encourage others to act while you conserve your energies.

Your extremist temperament may alienate you from those whose cooperation you need to shore up your own defenses. You assert your will with such defiance and aggression that only the stout-hearted can put up with it. You need to use logic and temper your attitude with a greater compromise. You may be preoccupied with sex and its power as a lever against others. Be careful you dont destroy yourself in the process.

The most persistant challenge you face is to recognize the right of others to assert themselves. Unless you allow this, you will be constantly harassed by people who will refuse to support you. You might also experience difficulty in regaining debts owed you. These problems will be only temporary if you learn to cooperate with those whom you feel threatened by. Stop suspecting everyone whose opinions differ from yours.

In time you will gain enough confidence to make your own decisions. You will feel sure of your own worth, and the security of your professional or domestic situation will no longer bother you.

At some point in your life you will undergo great changes and psychological realignment. At that time you will be able stand alone, fully self-assured. If you tolerate others rather than resent them for threatening you, you will realize that you have the authority to accomplish your objectives independently.

Sita, you may have overcome a lot of the negative aspects already entering into young adulthood. Remember that certain transits 'trigger' aspects in the chart. So the influence may come and go throughout the lifetime. At least you are aware of it and how to problem solve in a constructive manner.

The next opposition to Pluto is from Mercury in the 2nd house. Canopus interprets:

Mercury in the 2nd house:
The planet of communication, trade, commerce and travelling in the
house of earning money.
Combining astrological symbols, one can be led in 2 directions:
1) Making money through Mercury-type occupations: writing,
communication, media, trade, commerce, etc.
2) Earning money in a Mercury fashion, through a versatile and
resourceful approach. Also, possibly, fluctuations in the income.

Mercury-Pluto opposition:
Key Words: Investigating, probing mind. Deep need for metamorphoses.
*The Mercury endowed with Pluto qualities:
Deep, penetrating mind.
Curious, inquisitive mind.
Fascination with mysteries.
Likes to probe or unveil that which is secret or hidden.
*Pluto features:
Essentially, a Mercury-Pluto aspect tends to impart Pluto qualities
to the personality - not unlike a Sun-Pluto aspect. Following strict
astrological symbolism, the Pluto values tend to be more clearly
manifested in the mental sphere. In reality, things are not as
separate, the person has a strong Pluto planetary force with:
- magnetic personality; intensity;
- loves secrecy;
- and a number of cliches often attributed to the sign of Scorpio in
astrology.
*The Phoenix-Crises:
Perhaps the most significant element in a major Mercury-Pluto aspect
is the propensity to undergo massive transformations, often in the
form of crises. These can take various forms, from family dramas to
nervous breakdown, or simply a powerful transformation path.
The common point to these crises is that the native emerges with a
different system of values and direction in life (the same applies,
to a great extent, to the crises undergone by people with a major
Sun-Pluto aspect).
Here astrology can play a very positive role, by pointing out that
there is a huge inner need for transformation. For in reality, what
the person wants and needs is transformation, not crisis! If this
need can be identified and addressed through a process of
self-transformation, then all crises can be avoided.
Pluto people, however, can have an amazing ability to disguise and
eclipse this inner yearning for metamorphosis. Bringing themselves
to crisis is sometimes the only way for them to make the move.
But again, in many cases (not always) the crises could be avoided by
a 'clear vision' of the situation, and taking the necessary steps to
remedy it.

Pelletier offers his interpretation:

With your Mercury opposition Pluto, mental and emotional anxiety prevails. You are extremely sensitive to any social problems you observe and cannot rest until you've made some effort to resolve them. Everything is in a state of crisis, you feel, until you can gather your forces to solve a problem that you sincerely believe is your responsibility. You are impatient with yourself and others to get things done immediately. You are certainly competent, but you need to be constantly reassured of this, so you project crises in your own life and with the people around you. Moderation and compromise are necessary if you wish to prevent others from breaking off with you.

When challenged, you are emotionally and intellectually arrogant, because you fear that your credibility is being questioned. You tend to draw premature conclusions based only on the obvious aspects of a situation. A more penetrating examination might reveal details that would force you to modify your judgement. You will have to cope with this problem before you can successfully handle your professional interests. Many difficulties will persist with your co-workers, who will not tolerate you unless you change your attitude.

You are suited for such fields as medicine, research, analysis, union activities, chemistry, and teaching. However, you must come to grips with the qualities that make it difficult for others to get along with you. You are extremely argumentative when provoked, and this can interfere with realizing your goals. Learn to mind your own business, and learn to respect the feelings of others. This can help greatly in gaining their cooperation and support when you need it, as everyone does on occaision. Others will appreciate your efforts if you compromise a little.

Finding a suitable mate may not be difficult for you, but you are more likely to keep the mate you find if you will meet your partner halfway at compromise. Your strong ambition and desire for financial security may drive a wedge of dissent between you. If you disagree about important matters it would be wise to seek guidance from someone who is an authority in such things. Resist the desire to project your ideas onto your partner or to make unacceptable demands. This will alienate your mate as surely as it does your associates.

Ideally, your partner's objectives should be consistent with yours; then you could undertake a cooperative program in which you would support each other.

You can enjoy continuing good health if you will try to do everything in moderation. Unwind by getting away from the pressure of competition. Your savings are very important, for they will allow you to be less anxious when unexpected expenses occur. But remember, in your relationships with others, what you are is more important that what you have.

Pelletier really puts it to a person, doesnt he???

Here is the interpretation for Pluto trine Ascendant from Canopus:

Pluto-Ascendant trine:
This aspect to the Ascendant reinforces Pluto and helps integrate it
with the rest of the personality.
Aspects of Pluto to the ascendant are often said to bestow a strong
degree of physical resistance, as well as the capacity for
regeneration and self-healing in the case of health crises. The
person can cope with significantly more than the average population.

Pelletier's interpretation:

Pluto trine the ascendant shows that you have an enormous source of energy to draw on using your creative abilities. There is literally nothing you can't do if you set your mind to it. You have the strength and self-confidence to project your ideas and win the full support you need. Tolerating the past only for the lessons it teaches, you look eagerly to a future made more secure from the lessons you have learned. You are eager to communicate what you know to others, but you will not force it on them, preferring to wait for an indication that your suggestions are welcome. Lack of funds is no excuse for inaction in your view, for you feel that there is always a way if one wants something desperately enough. You are clever in converting all your resources into the tangible assets you need to implement your projects.

Knowing your failings, you work hard to transform your negative qualities so they do not limit you. Even more important , you understand your capabilities and emphasize them in seeking your goals. The task of making the future secure challenges you to use every resource you have. You know what your worth, and you expect to be fully rewarded for the contributions you make in your career. You admire people who seek an education, if they are motivated by a desire to be the best in what they do. Ignorance is no defense for lack of accomplishment, you believe, because you know that being well-informed is as accessible as the nearest library.

You know how to get along with both the competitors and with associates, and you strive especially to be worthy of the people you deal with. You want to know that you have made an important contribution in stimulating them to reach their goals. But dont assume that without you these people would not be able to succeed. You must realize that many people are quite capable of transforming their own lives and may not need your self-righteous assistance. Be available when they need you, but dont be a nuisance when they dont.

Sita, I hope you find the information, though lengthy, at least a platform of information for you to 'synthesize' and 'utilize' in your own life. Reading through this you will start to analyze and see the checks and balances that your natal chart possesses for you, the challenge is in how you use the energies. This is the same for most people's charts. There are rare exceptions, but yours isnt one of them, so no worries there. Just learn and self actualize and you wont have to worry about any transit or aspect!

Be well!

Amazon1963

sita

01-26-2006, 05:03 PM

Amazon,
It's Sita. Holy cow,... is it Christmas again?! I got on the forum today and found I had a screen FULL of presents to unwrap from you and others!!! Thank you sooooooooo much. I can tell you this will take me far, and will be an enornous help. I related to nearly everything written, and I feel so relieved to actually SEE it written, as it gives a voice to some of the intensity I live with. I tried to block my power and I almost died, so now I know that I have to go full force and work with what I've got, and remember that THIS IS MY LOVE.

Going back to work now,
Sita

Amazon1963

01-27-2006, 03:16 AM

Sita,

You are very, very welcome! I am even more pleased to learn others here have generously reached out to help you as well! I'm having a 'Lapis heartfelt' moment here! :D

A wonderful group exists here filled with knowledge and the generosity of spirit to share it. Way to go! :D

Amazon1963

sita

02-04-2006, 04:39 PM

johan,
i've been following your posts around here, and we have another pluto opposite mercury thing in common, which is smoking. Since pluto rules consumption, and mercury needs the mouth to communicate, I'm thinking I've got pluto coming at me from the wrong direction, every time I puff down on one of those suckers.
sita

johan

02-04-2006, 05:03 PM

Interesting,Sita

Like Sore described in the yod-thread,my case of the pluto/neptune sextile gives a tendancy for drugabuse,maybe the pluto/mercury thing strenghtens this.

But i think somehow neptune is always involved,if not in the natal,than in progressions or transits.Neptune is not only the gateway for spiritual things and other worlds,but also addictions.Or at least planets in the sign of Pisces.

So in our natalcharts we share the combination of pluto,neptune and mercury.

sita

02-04-2006, 06:23 PM

I'm an aries, too. :lol: :evil: :roll:

johan

06-27-2006, 05:45 PM

Back to my first post here on AstrologyWeekly,while I found an excellent article of Bill Street on the internet on http://www.astrologyforthesoul.com/billstreett/plutmerk.html
A lot of recognition from my side,so for me a reason to read more articles of this man:

Powers of the Mind:
The Pluto-Mercury Interface

Scientists have identified that our minds are literally not one, that is, we are of multiple minds. This discovery is analogous to the supposition that depth psychologists have made for decades—that we are not the master of own house, that below the threshold of consciousness lies the unconscious, a powerful reservoir of instincts, drives, feelings, and ambitions. Commensurate with this understanding is the anatomical structure of the brain. Below the neocortex lies the limbic system and the reptilian complex, or r-complex. This three-tiered structure, often referred to as the “triune brain,” may be seen as the physical corollary of the models of the psyche developed by depth psychologists.
We may liken both the physical and psychological strata of the brain and mind to be analogous to the archetypes of Mercury and Pluto in astrology. Mercury, like conscious thought and the neocortex, is affiliated with the rational centers of the mind. Through the use of the neocortex, we may think abstract thoughts, we may self-reflect, we may write and communicate. The limbic system and the reptilian complex are responsible for the autonomical functioning of the human, the tasks that occur without conscious effort. Secondly, the lower strata of the triune brain are responsible for the more emotional, more powerful states of mind. Through the lower strata of the mind we feel—often intensely—threats from the environment. It is through the reptilian mind that fight of flight mechanisms are often brought to the surface of consciousness. The lower strata of the physical mind may be likened to the archetype of Pluto—the source of the powerful, yet often unconscious, material of the psyche.
Given Mercury’s and Pluto’s affiliations to the structure of the mind, it is easy to suggest that Mercury is a higher, or more evolved, archetype. If we are strictly to adhere to the sequence of evolution, this is true; the neocortex evolved after the formation of the lower brain. However, rather than look at the mind in terms of an evolutionary sequence, it is perhaps more illuminating to see the strata of the brain and mind in terms of relationship. The neocortex may help us to understand and repress, when necessary, the knee-jerk, instinctual reactions of the lower mind. However, the neocortex may also be the handmaiden or henchmen of the lower mind, building weapons of destruction and chaos that lower evolved life forms could never create. The alligator or lizard cannot create or detonate an atomic weapon when it feels the threat of its enemies; it simply reacts automatically to the impulses of its brain when danger is sensed. Thus, it is more productive to view the divisions of the mind and brain as a dynamic system rather than a hierarchy of evolution.
This relationship is the subject of this essay and it is best elucidated through the interplay of the archetypes of Mercury and Pluto. Mercury, the archetype of letters, thought, and left-brained analysis exists in relationship to Pluto, the symbol of primitive, evolutionary drives and deep-seated emotional material. Within astrology, this relationship is highlighted when Pluto and Mercury are in significant angular relationship to each other in the birth chart. That is, when this pairing are in aspect, the instinctual reservoir of energy of Pluto meets and informs the thinking and communicative centers of Mercury. Through Pluto and Mercury, the depths of the human unconscious meet rational and civilized discourse. Thus, with this pairing, Pluto informs the thought patterns of Mercury, as Mercury acts as a mouthpiece or conduit to the primal, evolutionary power of Pluto.
As with any planetary combination, the meeting of Pluto and Mercury makes for a multi-faceted expression. The interface is a complex one and can lead to a number of different, thought ultimately interrelated, manifestations. The following five patterns arguably represent the core of the archetypal complex, although certainly other expressions may be as evident.
(this article continues in the next post due to the length of the article.)

johan

06-27-2006, 05:50 PM

The Power of Persuasion:

Pluto-Mercury individuals are innately attuned to powerful use of language. They know that how you say something is as important as what you say. Pluto-Mercury individuals are either very powerful speakers or attract very power use of language into their lives. Sometimes this powerful drive around language can come through in a love (sometimes an unconscious love) for heated intellectual debate or arguments. For Pluto-Mercury possessors, the intellect is a source of passion and power, thus, there can be an extremely intense desire to hold onto one’s intellectual positions at all costs. In fact, since Pluto is often the seat of the unconscious, there may even be a sense of threat if one’s intellectual authority is undermined. Regardless, there can be a very intense, powerful drive around the mind and intellectual issues with this combination.
Pluto also signifies where there can be power struggles in our lives, where issues of domination and subjugation occur. With Pluto-Mercury, there can be a need to be top-dog in conversation, seeing everything as a possible argument to win. Or, on the other side of the spectrum, one can be very easily dominated in conversation with others, taking on the position of a child where we allow others to steamroll over us with arguments and positions which aren’t congruent with how we view reality. So, Pluto deals with power issues, how it manifests is different for every person, but with the Pluto-Mercury combination, power games and strategy are often intimately bound in communication and speech.

The Dark Side of the Mind:

Where Pluto is in the chart is the symbol where we are willing to confront, often courageously, the dark side of life—the murderous, the licentious, the scatological, or the demonic. Thus, with a Pluto-Mercury combination, there can be an innate fascination with dark intellectual subjects. Some individuals with the Pluto-Mercury combination report a paradoxical fascination and repulsion to horror books, mystery, crime novels, gothic literature, or any subject that is considered taboo. Thus, with Pluto in aspect to Mercury is where we see the dark side of life, and there can be a lifelong dalliance with intellectual subjects that carry this shadowy material.
Another way this combination can be witnessed is through constant or incessant usage of vulgar language; the need to express one’s self powerfully through obscenities or offensive language, especially if one is feeling threatened in some capacity. Often a Pluto-Mercury individual has to contend with more unrefined, darker sides of speech and thought.

Obsessions of the Mind:

Pluto’s position in the birth chart can be where we tend to obsess over things with an air of compulsivity. With a Pluto-Mercury combination, one may be an innate stickler for correct use of language. This may express itself through a very strict adherence to the rules and syntax of language or it may express itself in a fear of self-expression since one may fear that one can never live up to an internal standard of perfection in use of language. Pluto can fuel a sort of fixated sensibility over subject matters or ideas. When the aspect is activated in one’s life, there may be a sense of fixating or ruminating on one subject or a set of ideas. Although this may not sound comfortable from an outsider’s perspective, this type of obsessional activity can lead to extremely positive outcomes, such as intense problem solving or idea generation.

The Heart of the Matter:

The Pluto-Mercury possessor is often the individual that can talk most earnestly, bluntly, and openly about subject matter that may make others squeamish. Both attracting and manifesting intellectual discussions which may be brutal, frank, and utterly honest, the Pluto-Mercury individual is often the individual that may be most able to discuss things with complete honesty and directness. This quality can be both refreshing and liberating as it can be too blunt and harsh. Those with this aspect may learn when it is necessary to discuss matters in a deep, honest, and direct manner and when it is necessary to appropriately pad their talk with superficiality, cordiality, and diplomacy.

Deep Research:

In a similar vein, the Pluto-Mercury individual may be an individual who is most able to penetrate deeply and profoundly into any subject matter. Thus, the Pluto-Mercury possessor often makes an extraordinary researcher, investigator, or examiner, delving more profoundly and more deeply than others are capable. Both in terms of sheer quantity and level of penetrating insight, the Pluto-Mercury individual can stretch beyond normal capacity to reach extraordinary levels of the mind. Pluto’s evolutionary power can be the fuel that allows for superhuman achievement, stretching and pushing an individual to the utmost. When connected to the mind, Pluto may press an individual to extraordinary lengths and pursuit.

pisceskitty

07-27-2006, 12:46 AM

Hi,

Transiting Pluto squared my natal Mercury in Pisces in my fifth house. I was having feeling of paranoia, and really strong ideas about things. I would write these really, and I mean really loooooong emails to my friends talking about my artistic ideas, etc..I just couldn't stop writing.
I would also have these moments where I would acccuse people of trying to control me. "Oh, you think i'm stupid"?! was pretty much my motto! Mercury also rules my Ninth house. My philosophical views really began to expand. As well as my ideas on spirituality, and religion in general.

08-13-2006, 07:48 PM

Interesting thread and I haven't had time to read it all yet! I have pluto (leo, 3rd house) opposite Mercury (aquarius,9th house and ruler of ascendent) plus this opposition forms a T-square with Saturn (scorpio on 6th cusp)!!
When I was younger I was very quiet and would freeze up sometimes if expected to communicate (that's the extra infuence of saturn). Since I have Gemini rising I later developed into a compelling communicator and find that most of what I have read in this thread applies to me. It is essential for someone with merc/pluto to find an outlet for that intensity so it just doesn't pour out into everyday communication. I have found also that I have a form of "negative psychic" ability. In other words, I am a ****-detector as probably all pluto/merc folks are. The trouble is I think that "focus is an intentional act" and a "creative act" so what you focus on is what you create. I can see through people and see past their facade and denial but would prefer to be a more optimistic thinker (I'm a Pisces after all!) and have found it tough to cope with this ability and to know when I am moving from just "seeing" to "creating" something negative. I will also suggest that when Pluto comes along to square by transit this aspect -- it is time to "clean house" and to transform whatever is unhealthy about this aspect into something on a higher level. But FIRST you have to bring up all the unhealthy stuff to consciousness (painful!). Also Pluto transits have a way of cutting through any denial -- I know about that since the great Saturn-Pluto opposition back in 2001 squared my natal Pisces sun and virgo moon!!! I would advise anyone with merc/pluto squared by pluto (particularly since this involves the 6th/12th houses) to pay attention to their dreams at night, take care of their stress level and health, start to mediate it you do not already, and participate in self-improvement, therapy, etc. but DO NOT get excessive or obsessed about anything! Right now I am concerned about Uranus on my midheaven and headed to conjunt my pisces sun (10th house) and oppose my virgo moon (4th house) WHILE pluto conjuncts my descendent and north node (uranus and pluto on the angles!!!) and of course when Saturn gets to virgo - that adds Saturn on the nadir!!!

Good luck to all!!