my first love is coming back to me now, what should i do? [Archive]

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saree

10-16-2007, 09:49 AM

Hi..!!

My first love of teenage years is coming back to me now with a marriage proposal...

we're in a relationship for 7 years from age 14 to 21..and then she turned her back on me... Now she wants me to marry her...

i dont know what to do please advise..

FleetingDasein

10-16-2007, 08:37 PM

I think this should be a horary rather than a synastry reading.

saree

10-16-2007, 10:08 PM

yes, instead of horary, i could do Iching...

but i was hoping if someone could find aspects regarding synastry and for long term compatability as well..i really dont know if she likes me or is just looking for an escape goat

starlink

10-17-2007, 03:44 PM

Oh Saree, I had a very, very long answer here and I dont know WHAT I did, but all of a sudden I was in Yahoo mail!!!! I am sooooo angry!!
All I want to tell you is that it does not look good at all. I had written every detail down, I just dont feel like going over it again, sorry. Moons are incompatible, Ascendants are incompatible, Suns are incompatible and the worst of all is that her Moon squares your Moon, the ruler of her Moon, Saturn is opposing your Moon and her Sun squares your Venus. There is not even a Moon-Jupiter or a Moon-Venus aspect (maybe her Moon trines your Venus but I cannot see the degrees in this chart, very difficult to assess.) Her Moon and your Venus are compatible, and both your Venusses also are in compatible signs, but that is about it. She has real issues I should add. She will find it very difficult to open up emotionally. Moon in Capricorn square her Saturn. Saturn and Asc. square Venus (T-square), really difficult to have in a chart, especially for a woman and even though she has the ruler of her Ascendant in Cancer, showing some degree of caring and nurturing, the square to Saturn and the Ascendant shows that she does not really like that sort of thing. Also ruler of 7 is in her 1st: she does not really need other people.(ruler 1 in 7 shows the opposite). Her Libra Ascendant is an indication that she likes one to one relationships, but somehow, she does not know how to handle relationships. Mars conjunct Jupiter shows more than one relationship/marriage. The rulers of her 2nd house, Pluto and Mars are both in her 1st house. Her personality is strongly depending on what she possesses. She has a tendency to show off her assets (if she has them). She can be possessive and difficult, moody.
I dont know, you know her better after 7 years, but my feeling is that this is not going to be good for you. You are quite dominant too with your Moon in Aries and the ruler Mars in Leo which could clash with her Pluto-Mars in her first house. I think she is ambitious and she could be interested in a good party to marry if you know what I mean. You have the ruler of the 2nd in Taurus, very dignified so you could be well off financially.Does Venus trine your Ascendant by any chance? Again, I cannot see the degrees.
What does the I-Ching tell you? OK Saree, I must go now. Let me know what you think of this. Cheers, Starlink

rahu

10-17-2007, 06:15 PM

hi saree,
the composite chart has a mercury opposed to uranus which can show arguements leading to a breakup,but with uranus also sextile to mars and jupiter,the disruptive nature of uranus is much less,actually this positions gives a excitement and interest to the relationship.the venus/sun midpoint is square to the moon so there is a strong affection in this relationship,the moon indicationg that she does love you.with saturn conjunct jupiter and juno,you have intrerest in a longterm relationship with her and always have.the venus/mars midpoint is sextile to saturn and juno,this indciates that your love of her is steady.
the uncertainties are the moon/sun midpoint opposed to pluto.this can show that there are unconscious or hidden issues in this relationship.the moon/uranus midpoint is square to chiron,indiocating that she can be unpredictable and a times a self serving,critical ,cynical "witch".also with neptune square the ascendant,there is a possibility of deceptions in the relationship though if you two have a strong spiritual nature then this is not a problem.
it seems that the question is if you want to be married.with mars square to uranus in your natal chart,you are a very independent person.you also have a sun opposed to saturn which shows a need for security so you may be caught between these two needs,security vs independence.she has a venus square saturn in her natal chart showing a devoted emotional nature and one that needs security.
did she leave you intially because you were acting like you wanted more freedom?with a chiron/venus conjunction in your natal chart ,you can be a bit insensitive to those around you.it seems that if you will make a sincere committment then this marriage could work out.
what did the ching say?
rahu
rahu

starlink

10-18-2007, 07:22 AM

Hi Rahu, I feel compelled to say a few things here.
Who wants to get married to a :self serving,critical ,cynical "witch". On top of that I myself also saw: She can be possessive and difficult, moody.

Moons are incompatible, Ascendants are incompatible, Suns are incompatible and the worst of all is that her Moon squares his Moon, the ruler of her Moon, Saturn, is opposing his Moon and her Sun squares his Venus. . Maybe the Sun-Venus square shows attraction, sure,and also the Sun trine Moon, by far the best aspect, otherwise they would not have had a relationship for 7 years, but dont forget, they were both teenagers, not mature people and it was "first love", always romantisized.Steven Arroyo writes in his book "Relationships and lifecycles" that a Saturn-Moon, Sun, Ascendant aspect show some kind of security thing that you have with the other person. That person who's Saturn hits your Moon (in this case her Saturn) has something over you. In some cases they have you under their thump!.Moon in Capricorn is always security oriented. Arroyo writes that no matter how good a synastry looks, if Moons are incompatible, sooner or later you get into trouble. (I saw it in my own life, all aspects wonderful, just the Moons not and I never felt "at home or at ease" with him, even though the marriage lasted 34 years. IT was always a strain on my emotions. Finally (took long with Taurus Sun, Scorpio Moon) I could not stand it anymore and we divorced.
Does she love him? I think she is attracted to him, but love? I think she wants to marry him for security reasons. Libra is quite calculating when it comes to commodities and luxurious things. Midpoints are important, sure, but the main aspects I think, speak for themselves. Up to Saree if he wants to get into this or not I suppose. Star.

Catatonia

10-19-2007, 07:39 AM

You two are really, really compatible..don't worry about the little things..don't sweat 'em. Just know that you two are very compatible astrologically, but did you really need to know that seeing as how you had a relationship for 7 yrs?

I think the Mercury RX has brought her back, Merc retrograde is characteristic of people coming back into your life...

starlink

10-19-2007, 09:06 AM

Catatonia

10-19-2007, 05:14 PM

Catatonia, I would love to see why you think they are compatible. Even the Mercuries are in incompatible signs, Pisces and Leo. Maybe as friends with his Jupiter, ruler of his Sun in her 11th house. But his Saturn in her 12th and his Venus in her 8th house, I frankly do not like so much. Lots of deep personal problems to resolve here and if not resolved, then it will be acted out in the partnership. I think the negative aspects outdo the good one's here.
Like I said, they were very young , still in school (puppy love)and at that age it does not really matter if you are compatible or not, you just are too excited having a boy or girlfriend. You dont even think (like an adult would) about a relationship.
Star.

They grew up together. You ARE an adult at 21. Secondly, your method to "compatibility" is very amateur. I suppose you can get a jist of certain compatibility factors by comparing Suns, Moons, Mercurys, etc.., but that's not always the case.

They both have several planets in the 1st house -- mutual Saturn, and she has Pluto, Mars, and Jupiter.

Secondly, he has his Moon in her 7th+conj her Descendant. THat's a BIG deal. Thirdly, Venus in 8th is dignified in Taurus, and it isn't that bad of a position. The 8th is a very financial house. Saturn's in its joy in the 12th because it's "hidden". Her fortune's right on his Sun, and his Juno is right on her Venus. The compatibility really isn't bad. Sometimes compatibility goes beyond astrology.

I'd advise to glance at the composite and the DAVISON especially, and how they both fit into the context of their charts separately. Along with this, the transits each was experiencing when they met.

starlink

10-19-2007, 09:43 PM

Hi Catatonia, thanks for coming back on this one.
your method to "compatibility" is very amateur.
I dont consider myself an amateur after 25 years of astrology and being certified by the FAS in London. I follow mostly the rules Stephen Arroyo described in his book: "Relationships and lifecycles" and indeed also the book from Ronald Davison, "Synastry", understanding human relations through Astrology and have helped many couples over the years with good results.
Some youngsters are more mature than others at 21.I know a woman who studies to become a teacher ,who still ***** her thumb believe it or not, and has NO idea what a relationship is all about. She has hanged around with this divorced man + child since she was 14, just for security's sake, father image problem and there are many others like her. Even Saree himself was puzzled by the fact that "all of a sudden" she comes back and not only that, she asks to marry him!! after they had split up for years (dont know how many). Sounds to me very strange and yes, immature even though she is an adult in years.
I dont know Catatonia, I hope you are right and they are made for one another, but I bet you that if they come together it wont be long before they will split up again, Juno and POF or not.
Davison writes that when the man's Saturn is in the 12th house of his female partner's horoscope, there may be some difficulties in the relationship and her Sun in his 12th, adversely aspected to his Venus could make it difficult for her to treat the relationship in a sufficiently objective way, because of her faculty of being able to make him subconsciously aware of his own psychological maladjustments. About the Moon in the 7th house,he indeed writes that it is frequently found in horoscopes of married couples, very true, but if the aspects to that Moon are adverse (and they are! his Moon is heavily afflicted by her Saturn, Pluto and Moon) then he will be particularly sensitive to being patronized, especially with his Mars situated in his own 12th house, square her Uranus conjunct his IC. She is very likely to upset him and the family with her Sun-Uranus square in fixed signs. So no matter how well they may get along otherwise, I really think that their lives will be full of crisis, especially painful for him with his Moon in his 8th house and sensitive Pisces Sun. Pisces on the cusp of his 7th house and Mercury retrograde conjunct it and opposed to his Jupiter (and maybe also his Mars? cant see this without degrees) also does give the possibility of more than one serious relationship or marriage. Ruler of his 7th, Neptune, squares his Saturn and her Part of Fortune. (her Neptune also squares her own POF). Many astrologers do not use the fixed stars like Juno and Vesta etc.. You do. Have you seen the Pluto-Saturn square Juno?(conj.Venus). I cannot see any degrees in this chart and have not run the charts myself, so maybe the square is too wide, but Venus-Pluto, Venus-Saturn, both difficult aspects, so that Juno of his is also not well aspected by her planets in 1st house. Indeed the Venusses sextile one another. Something should be pleasant in this chart for them to like one another and I'm sure they do. But he probably wants to know if he should marry her or not. He has doubts about her loving him, he knows her better than we do, so there must be a reason for his doubt. She already left him once and he probably is afraid she will eventually do it again and he does not want to take this risk. I find this situation risky.
This is really my honest opinion and sure, they can marry, but Saree was perplexed about her sudden "marriage move". I would have been if I were him. Lets see what he has to say about all our opinions here and if he recognizes some of what we have said. So far no reaction from his side.

Best regards,
Starlink

Catatonia

10-20-2007, 04:05 AM

Hey. I'm really sorry for coming off so rude. I follow a different system of astrology, I'm not a moderner. I follow Hellenistic rules, use traditional rulers, and consider a lot of other points..

Mercury RX probably brought them back together so I assume they may not be together after it's over. I see that happen a lot during retrogrades.

If you're puzzled and you think she's messing with your emotions, think twice Saree..

Cat

starlink

10-21-2007, 12:26 PM

No problem Cat. I am not easily offended. Everyone can make a slip of the tongue or pen once in a while, its really not dramatic! Ciao, Star.

saree

10-29-2007, 06:12 AM

Thanks guys..!!

During this time i couldnt get back to you all...But thanks i feel genuinely helped by your posts.

And i wasnt surprized to see polarized views about this issue...Whole of my Life is streched between two Opposing choices... Antares Conjunct saturn..found out through fixed star report and Reviewed my life to Realize this was 100% true.

I found out, She doesnt Like me much...and i dont blame her...We're so different...i am more of Eternal Wanderer...not Much concerned about dressing up...socializing...and having an IQ around 144 makes it impossible for me to feel comfortable making relationships in life and not feel disappointed... Never been challenged intellectually...or to be surprized by the intelligence of Women in my life.. (there have been 4 only in 14 years) i am 27 now...

After this Episode..I feel like...I have lost my Faith in Love, or people...or relationships...

I dont have the complete info but to me it seems she tried to deceieve me... But then i think she could be not aware of her own emotions...and may be because of her basic instincts of security might have realized that she wants this relationship...

But i feel Emotionally raped and humiliated, if this is true...

I read this poem, as i thought about the issue...
Time is Short by Rabindernath Tagore

You left me and went away,
I thought i should Moan and Grieve over my loss,
for time is short

Youth Vains Years after Years,
Spring days are fugitive,
Fragile flowers die for nothing.

Once a wise man said, Life is by the due Drop of a trembling leaf,
Should i negelect all this to Gaze after you,
who has turned her back on me
i would be foolish,
for time is short.

Therefore, come to me my Rainy nights with patering feets, smile my golden autumn,
Come careless April scattering your kisses abroad,
and come You too my Lover,
We're mortals,

And it is wise to break your heart for the one who takes your heart away,

For time is short.

starlink

10-29-2007, 12:46 PM

Hello Saree, thank you for giving us some update. I am sorry to hear that you feel the way you do now:

After this Episode..I feel like...I have lost my Faith in Love, or people...or relationships...

Honestly Saree, this is not the way to go. I am sure you will find love, real love, some day. You are still very young. Every experience we have, good or bad, are lessons we learn in this life. What helps me always is my believe in re-incarnation. I have always believed that, if you meet a person in this life, and after a couple of years, sometimes painful years, sometime good years, and then you loose them, either through death or otherwise, that this person has been here for you in order to finish off something you had no time to do in a former life. We dont own other people, they are never ours for keeps. We can experience them, have fun with them and endure pain with them during the years they were in our lives. We have learned from them and through them. Nothing has been in vain, it was all for a reason.
Now, in any next relationship you will have in this life, you now can improve on things you think were the cause of the break-up with this girl. You will not make the same mistake again, or at least try not to.
So dont you give up on love and relationships. Look at all this from a different perspective, see the good that comes from ANY relationship and do not focus on the negative side of them. Like I mentioned in my post, your ex girlfriend does not need others for love, she needs them for security reasons (but might not know the difference like many of us). You do want a family with the ruler of your 7th house in your 4th and trine your Moon. You have Neptune as ruler of the 7th in Saggitarius where he is dignified. You look for a women who also likes adventures (Saggitarius) and who is intelligent and sensitive (Mercury conjunct 7th house cusp in Pisces) and a women who is very earthy, sensual, loyal and feminine (Venus in Taurus). I am sure you will find her some day. Broken hearts will mend and time will heal.

Best wishes,
Starlink

starlink

10-29-2007, 02:12 PM

saree

10-30-2007, 12:43 PM

Hey Starlink thanks alot friend... I am really surprized by your long posts...

I hastly wrote my reply earlier...that is the reason i couldnt explain properly what i meant.. it is perhaps Progressed Mercury in Aries that i feel i am independent of everything and everyone... and i placed so much importance of Finding a Masseha outside myself that happiness eluded me..[sun in seventh]... so perhaps it is time to graduate to spirituality... But deception in Love is a huge matter...it is bound to de-rail you for you faith in indomitable human spirit...

I know i would get married...perhaps soon :) 4 months you say.

you are right.. It is all for a reason.. as i posted this Rabindernath Tagore Poem "it is wise to break your heart for the one who takes your heart away"

we always talk about relationship going bad..but rarely do we look into developing ourselves to deserve better...

as you put it some people dont need love..or perhaps it is our Erroneous Linguistic abilities as species that we fail to translate our perceptions of situations and feelings appropriately...with limited vocabulary we have for perceptions... we are muddled in same unempowering choices...where we might have liberated ourselves...

we can do ganderous mathematical operations...but our lives seem to be caught up in not so elevated problems... which is disappointing..

i do feel genuinely helped by all of your guys posts for giving me alot of new ways to look at my situation...and i do feel empowered to make better choices for the future also

Regards,
sarEE

PS: All said and done i should introudce myself, I am an alternative healer, Reiki Master.. and working as a buisness Manager for a foriegn company.

starlink

10-30-2007, 01:02 PM

Hi there Saree! Thank you for your long reply. Just for the record, 4 month could be a time of getting to know someone significant (to start of with) and maybe you decide the next day to marry her (that's up to you, ha ha!) but just know that beginning of March is looking promising. I know relationships can involve disappointment but I think everybody will encounter some sort of disappointment in his or her relationship with either friends, family, or partner. The important thing is how to deal with that and one of the things is really never to despair!! That's what got me in your post. I thought: "oh no, he cannot be serious!" And you are a healer, a Reiki Master no less. You of all people should find a way of healing yourself Saree. I know you can. Very interesting! Hope all will go well with you and I wish you lots of luck for the future. (let me know if indeed something positive will happen in your life OK?)
Cheers, Star.

saree

10-30-2007, 08:37 PM

Hi starlink!!

Sure thing :) would let you know...

I do understand myself that Decisions made within the intense Emotional Condition are Never Longer Lasting. Its my Nature to Merge with other people, spiritually, Humanely, Emotionally.

But i have read that in NeuroScience that if we are in bad mood, it takes away our faculity to Access Happy Emotional memories. Like a road sign of underconstruction makes it impossible to follow a previously Well troden path.

choices become limited in Emotional turmoil.

Thanks for reminding me to be brave and not to lose heart :)

My Love My heart, Let this time of Parting be sweet
Let it not be a death but completeness
Let your love melt into memory and your pain into songs
Let your flight through sky begin with unfolding of wings
Let your last touch of hands be gentle like the flower of the night
Stand still, o Beautiful love for a moment
and say your Last words in Silence

starlink

10-31-2007, 07:30 AM

if we are in bad mood, it takes away our faculity to Access Happy Emotional memories.

Very true, but then start reading once again this lovely poem! This is sooo beautiful and I think, the only way to find peace and closure (I know, because that is exactly what I did when leaving my ex husband. We are still friends and we still love each other as individuals.)

saree

10-31-2007, 08:12 AM

Thanks Catatonia (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/member.php?u=2075) ...

Catatonia

10-31-2007, 08:52 PM

no problem :D

saree

10-31-2007, 09:36 PM

Hey Star!!

i think you have Raised a Main issue, we are not much bothered by our past relationships...as much as we are troubled by our own unconscious un-integrated parts of personality...

Which are scattered only by our inability to have a closure in any Relationship.

starlink

11-01-2007, 05:27 AM

Saree, it is the unconscious un-integrated parts of our personality that prevent us from a lot of (mostly positive) things in our lives, one of them the above mentioned. It's not for nothing psychologists and psychiatrists are having a ball!!

FishNChips62

11-03-2007, 03:40 AM

deleteddeleteddeleted

saree

11-13-2007, 09:14 AM

hi guys..!!

You know my situtation....and out of blue this other girl did fly over from 1500 miles to meet me... and now she wants to move in together...

calls me up and keeps crying....... i like her but given my above described situation i have no clue about what to do ...

please advise...

below is our synastry chart

starlink

11-13-2007, 10:59 AM

Hi Saree, what do you mean with "another girl" now? Are you now talking about yet another girl??? My oh my, you must be some catch! :) OK, will have a look. It looks already better with the compatible Suns!(which are also in compatible houses by the way) She has her Sun in her 3rd house,as well as Mercury so she must have some mental power there and talent for writing is indicated, also with Moon in Gemini if I can see this well, and you like that! And her Moon is also compatible with your Moon in Aries. MUCH better than with the "first love" girl. Both Ascendants in Virgo, wow! Both Ascendant rulers in compatible signs as well, good communication between you both.That gives always a very very strong tie. Sun-Moon square is mostly a good sign in synastry especially in marriage partners often seen. She has a very nice Venus-Jupiter conjunction and her Venus is also compatible with your Venus. Both Marses are also in compatible signs. I have little time at the moment, but from what I can see in a flash is that this synastry is WAY better, almost perfect, compared to the other girl. I still need to look a bit further for possible problem zone's, but I would say, go for it! I just hope that you not only "like" her, but that you also could love her.I think she is a very nice lady. Cheers, Star.

saree

11-13-2007, 03:18 PM

hi..Star!! how're you doing?

haha...not really, i just helped her out a bit through some of her problems. I couldnt believe how someone could travel so far to meet me.

I had posted her chart before...and Mr. Tim responded with that post.

Thanks again for your prompt reply...

wilsontc (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/member.php?u=60)

Anneeza has most of her planets focused on the bottom (inner world) left (self) side of the chart, indicating that she uses her self-awareness to focus on her inner world. This intense inner focus indicates she does not focus on other people. As you mentioned, Mars (being, also anger) focused in the 4th house (home, also emotions) indicates emotional anger issues, which also can be a challenge when being around others. Currently, transiting (moving planets in the sky) Uranus (friends, also restructuring) is in her 7th house (relationships), indicating a time of restructuring her relationships.

But this won't change who she is: she is a person who focuses on herself. In order to find someone, she will need to find someone who naturally focuses on OTHERS. If she finds such a person, another challenge will be to make sure that she finds some way to focus on the other person as well. A relationship takes two people working together to make it work. If one person gives all the time and the other person only takes, the relationship won't work.

Relating,

Tim

starlink

11-13-2007, 04:41 PM

Hi Saree, thanks for writing back. I am afraid that I do not totally agree with Tim. Sure, she has most planets below the horizon. This shows that she is more of an introvert than an extrovert and does not necessarily mean that she is not at all focussed on other people. Why not? Because her Moon, most important planet and showing where she feels most at ease and comfortable is ABOVE the horizon and very dignified in own sign, Cancer (I looked it up, so the Moons are not compatible which could be a problem when it comes to how she feels with you and vice versa). With her Sun in Scorpio and Moon in Cancer she is very emotional and sensitive. The Moon is the handle of a Bowl pattern and will influence the other planets and their energies very much. Her Moon trines her Sun, a very good aspect showing a good balance between the body and the mind (emotions). Mars in her 4th is feeling OK in Sagittarius and the square to your Mercury makes for energetic (philosofical?) conversations. After all both planets are ruled by the same planets Jupiter and Neptune. OK, she can be argumentative at times but is not an "angry" person with Venus conjunct Jupiter. Jupiter rules her Mars, dont forget that! Even though she has most planets below the horizon, she is absolutely not NOT interested in other people. Her Moon needs to be surrounded by other people. The Moon shows where you feel most at ease, where you feel nurtured. With her friends are incredibly important. She is probably quite popular amongst her friends with Moon, ruler of her 11th, so wonderfully dignified in Cancer and sextiling her Ascendant. If you are only focussed on yourself you cannot be popular, people wont like you very much.
Those planets show that this young woman is a very deep thinker, someone who has the mind of a detective, very probing (good for research) and original. You have a Mars in the 12th and that is showing far more emotional anger than her Mars. You can see that Mars in your chart is ruler of your 8th house AND ruler of your Moon, not at all happy in Aries, so I think that she with her Mars, could be very helpful in bringing those feelings out of you and talking things over with you. Your Mars sextiles her Sun in 3.
You both have the same descendant, showing how you interact with others and your Mercury there also trines her Sun, really nice (intellectual conversations, lot of Mercury and 3rd house interaction). Ruler of both 7th houses is Neptune and in both charts it falls in the 4th house. Her co-ruler Jupiter falls in your 2nd and your Jupiter in her 1st house, almost on top of her Ascendant!. She can boost your confidence, you can make her laugh.
I dont know Saree, I can see that she could be a bit of a worrier maybe, going a bit too deep into things with that Mercury in Scorpio but I really dont think she is a person who is not interested in others. What do you think about her? I think she is a caring person.

Tim is right about the fact that a person with many planets above the horizon could be good for her. You are such a person. All personal planets are above the horizon. You both could balance one another out nicely.
Any partnership has it's problems and difficulties to overcome and adjustments to be made, it would be weird if that would not be the case.
Let me know what you think please. I like feedback and especially critical feedback. Where I am totally wrong I want to know about. I can still learn.
Cheers, Star.:)

saree

11-13-2007, 11:26 PM

Hi Star..!!

thanks for you valuable analysis...

Let me describe to you in more detail so that you get feedback regarding your analysis as well

When we met, i did feel that she's more introvert, with ability to switch gears for extrovertness...

But somewhere along the line this introvert personality gives shade of self-centerdness... I shouldnt judge her this way though as a definite truth..she might be nervous, or excited.

i felt a bit unheard, or out of touch ... the connection was missing at times...not the whole time though.

Balanced and deep thinker, that's true about her. We do have nice chat from time to time...she makes me laugh too... :) genuine intelligent funny things...

She's Emotional and sensitive...but i do feel from my own experience... We are at times more sensitive to our own vulnerabilities .... so sensitivity without sensability at times becomes Selfishness...

much mental compatability..i usually dont have that with people...or maybe i was in wrong neighbourhood...

and you are right, the one fear i have is that, she can bring to light my fears and private life and can help me out.

I just love this poem by Mariane Williamson

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented and fabulous?

Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small doesn’t serve the world. There’s nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won’t feel insecure around you.”

on the negative note, she has venus square moon? i believe...she's not comfortable with women...even her mother..as her mother is a doctor and she started job just after she was born...and she felt abandaoned? a karmic report said that... and i think she agreed to that.

What are my concerns? I watched this seminar of Carolyne Myss about chakras...and she taught about how if someone makes you agree to what he/she wants is taking control of your throat chakra...your will power...

Partnerships have their difficulties and problems... but i wonder if she's infatuated or really in love? or too much liking..

the intensity that she shows..and urgency... that kinda repells me a little...

Maybe i am just turning molehills into moutains and these arent big problems...

But at this point in my life, i dont feel like making a decision...and i know not making a decision is a decision...and at times maybe not a good one.

at the very least i feel a bit pushed into all this.

i do hope it gives you some insight about your astrology skills... :) you can tell me more specifically how can be of help

starlink

11-14-2007, 11:54 AM

Hi Saree, Thank you very much for your feed-back, much appreciated. I still think that, althought she is far more introverted and occasionally self-centered (aren't we all at times!!) that she is generally interested in other people. If that does not show so much, could be due to the fact that she has her Venus in the critical sign of Virgo. Virgo women are known for not being overly demonstrative in public when it comes to showing affection and quite critical.Virgo's by themselves are often self-conscious people (they want to look good, crisp and clean and think about their health and diet habits far more than other signs do). They like to fuss over you, "serve" you in a way.Privately though, they can give it all if they believe they have the right person.
She is more of an observer and keeps her thoughts for herself with all those planets and especially Mercury in Scorpio below the horizon. It will not be easy to get to know her for anyone. She is selfdefensive, like most Cancer Moons are and insecure in her self expression (Saturn rules her 5th house and is placed in her 2nd of selfworth).This insecurity keeps her busy, she thinks and analyses it and probably tries to figure a way out of it. This insecurity could make her feel shy. The deep thinking could show up as being "somewhere else" and therefore you could have the feeling that you are loosing that mental contact sometimes. It is not a des-interest in you or others. But I can imagine that you feel that she is not listening or interested at times.She just could be mentally far away , especially when she feels insecure about herself in public.But what caught my eye was the following:I remembered what you wrote here:

having an IQ around 144 makes it impossible for me to feel comfortable making relationships in life and not feel disappointed... Never been challenged intellectually...or to be surprized by the intelligence of Women in my life.. (there have been 4 only in 14 years)

Was she one of them? I have a feeling that this is a very important issue for you and almost a "must" in any future relationship you might have.
When I saw this womans chart, I thought WOW, she could be a good one for him!
I do understand that you feel pressured by her and the situation. It is not everyday that a woman knocks on your door crying and asks to live with you!! I had not gone much further in looking at both charts.

at the very least i feel a bit pushed into all this.

Now I see that her Pluto is opposing your Moon. This is very interesting. The Moon-Pluto opposition from 2-8th house is one of your major stress aspects. It is an emotionally demanding aspect. The Moon of course, has to do with all early childhood stuff and security and you are trying to find security in 8th house matters, associated with Scorpio. This is not easy for you, because that Pluto of yours is constantly putting you under psychological pressure and Pluto brings things to the surface (especially when transited by other planets). Old stuff, particularly in relation to friends and maybe brothers or sisters, peers, all of a sudden can surface and emotionally disturb you. And when that happens, you retreat (moon is ruled by Mars and is in your 12th).
Now Moon-Pluto aspects also are attention seeking, approval seeking.
Her Pluto is conjunct yours and her Pluto rules her Sun and Mercury!! and her Pluto also opposes your Moon, so there you have it, she brings those uncomfortable feelings to the surface with her quite dominant attitude and way of speaking. You feel pressured, you dont like that. Oppositions are stimulating aspects, especially in comparisons. She therefore stimulates these subconscious emotional feelings of yours.
There is quite a bit of affinity between your charts. Your Moon in the 8th, her Sun in Scorpio, same Ascendants but there is one crucial thing lacking and that is a connection between your Marses and Venusses. Yes, the Marses are in compatible signs, the Venusses as well, but there is NO connection between your Venus and her Mars or vice versa and I think that that is necessary in a relationship where sex also plays a role.
I know that there is probably no indication yet of a permanent relationship between the two of you, so for the time being we just leave it at that.

But at this point in my life, i dont feel like making a decision Well, you dont have to! You are still young, take your time.I must run now. All the best, Starlink

fannie0303

11-16-2007, 01:29 AM

Saree, I decided to look at your chart for Marriage potential.
Carol Rushman has a system whereby she looks at how many aspects the Moon in a mans chart (Sun in a womans) makes before leaving it's sign. Only conjunctions, Sextiles ,square, oppositions and trines are valid. These aspects give a possibility for marriage. There will be a relationship when Moon makes one of these aspects with the Sun, but you are ultimately the one who decides to marry or not. The potential is indicated however.
So, in your case the Moon made the trine to Neptune, that is the first aspect and shows the relationship you had with this girl. It had the potential maybe, but does not end in marriage. Next one and last one will be a trine to Mars and the North Node which often shows a strong karmic tie, so there will be another possibility for marriage.
.....

Starlink

Hi Starlink:
I was reading this thread and was hoping you could explain further Carol Rushman's theory, in relation to my ex with whom I am trying to find out if there is any chance of reconciliation. This is what I wrote in another thread to Moulin, in the hopes that she could look at the question from a Magi Astrology point of view:

"
So I am hoping you can help me out with my relationship problem. I first met Sean (I am calling him Sean as he actually looks alot like Sean Connery - yummie) on a flight on New Years Day, 2006. He is 14 years older than me. To keep a long story short, after he communicated with me via e-mail and mostly 6 hours a day of phone calls between Alberta where he was living and Toronto where I was living, we fell in love. I moved here in early May of 2006. He really swept me off my feet, the intellectual and sexual connections between us are unprecedented in both of our lives.

We broke up within a few months of my moving here. I think it was an issue of intimacy for him having been married 31 years (currently separated for @3 years) from a woman who was not nurturing in the least and with whom he barely had sex during their marriage. Then I moved in briefly with him when I got here and I made him delicious meals every night and excellent loving and affection to boot. It might have been too much of a shock to his system. I was considerably more dependant on him than I was in Toronto, but then again I had just moved here for him. His whole life he has been doing “the right thing” and has been an excellent father to his 3 children and a super provider to his wife and children. He may have feared I was going to be another financial obligation. But I did find work while we were together and am happy here now, and have made lots of friends, and have dated lots and he knows I am back to my independent self.

Anyway, after a very few turbulent times in the past year and a half, we are now communicating again quite comfortably, both verbally and occasionally intimately, and I wanted your point of view from your obvious knowledge of Magi Astrology, if there is a chance of reconciliation, and ultimately marriage between us. We are trying to keep the intimacy to a minimum as he respect me to much to engage in a friends with benefits relationship with me. I have looked at our synastry and composite charts in depth. My concern is his lack of moon connection with me, and his Uranus Venus conjunction in Cancer. But after doing some preliminary reading on the Magi Astrology site, I don't know if this is terribly relevant.

I want to point out that we have a lot of respect for each other despite things not working out the first time.
"
Anyway, I was hoping you could explain his moon aspect as relate to the possibility of him marrying again, and if you could take a look at the chance of me EVER marrying LOL. I haven't yet...I have posted both our charts as well as our synastry chart below...any help would be greatly appreciated;)

p.s. I am the daughter of a couple who emigrated to Canada from Switzerland...so maybe we are a little bit kindred !!

starlink

11-16-2007, 08:13 AM

Hello Fanny! Starting with the question about Carol Rushman's theory I can't tell you much more than what I wrote to Saree. It is just a chapter in her book dealing with marriage potentials. One of her "tricks" as you can call it, is indeed this thing with the applying aspect made by the Sun for a woman and the Moon for a man before they leave their signs. Apparently it worked in her own life. You only use the major applying natal aspects, no semi this or that, no inconjuncts etc. She learned this technique apparently from older practicing astrologers when she was still a young astrologer. It does not always work 100% but it is a useful guide (as she says).
She writes further that Mercury and Venus can also apply to the Sun. However, what happens is that these aspects are expressed most often as close alliance that dont end up at the altar. They seem to work by bringing opportunities for marriage, but not necessarily an actual marriage.
Usually applying aspects from Sun and Moon to other planets are used, but she has seen applying aspects with the nodes, indicating strong karmic relationships but not a marriage aspect.
The stronger aspects will be expressed first, like a conjunction before a sextile (even though the planet in sextile aspect may be closer in aspect, the strength of a conjunction outweights that of a sextile. This means that the conjunction would describe the first marriage or partner. All aspects will more or less describe the type of partner you attract.(she found that the planet the Sun is aspecting more often than not shows the Ascendant of the other person more than his or her Sun sign). You can take in account past aspects as well. Lets say in the sign your Sun or Moon (for a man) is placed, another planet could be there in an earlier degree. So that aspect counts as well and is usually a conjunction.
It is important to remember that these aspects do not include marriage opportunities. You can have 3 hits of your Sun, but in your life can have 6 marriage proposals. The 3 hits show the actual possibility of real marriage.
Venus in a man's chart shows the kind of woman he is attracted to, Mars in a womans charrt the type of man. This does not mean that they marry such a person (because the attractive man could not be marriage material or vice versa). It would be wonderful if the qualities of that Mars in your chart would indeed be present in the man you marry!

So in your chart you see 2 upcoming conjunctions with Moon and Mercury as the last one which could be potential marriages and a past conjunction with Saturn (older man) which is the 1st important relationship with the possibility of marriage. His Moon is completely at the beginning of Virgo so that means that there could be a number of possibilities for marriage but it is up to him if he takes the jump of course, but the potential will be there (just like it would be there for you with all those aspects. Just remember, conjunctions are of utmost importance and he has only 0ne conjunction which coincidentally also trines his Mars in 7.) You actually have a similar thing with the trine to Neptune and the conjunction to Mercury both at 19°.

You asked Moulin to look at this in a Magi Astrological sort of way. I personally never heard of Magi and am interested to know what it is all about.

I looked at both your Moons and they feel really comfortable with one another, a very big PLUS in synastry. If Moons dont match you will never really feel at home with one another, no matter how compatible the rest of the chart is. Sun signs also compatible. Your Moon trines his Sun. This is very good indeed. He is very very "fixed" and no wonder he stuck it out so long with his wife (men usually hold on longer than women, also because they know it is going to cost them). Your Ascendant is fixed and Jupiter, co-ruler of your Sun is also fixed. Even so, you are more flexible than he is. Your Pluto, Uranus and Mars, mighty strong planets, all fall in his 10th house,and the most important of your planets all fall in his 4th house, so I think you could have great influence on his public as well as on his private life. No wonder there was such a great attraction and good feelings between you.
Virgo's, and especially Virgo's with Scorpio Ascendants dont show much of what goes on inside them. You must give him time. His Moon is ruled by Mercury who is on a critical degree in Aries (29° ), trining his Moon and sextiling his Venus in 8. He can be very upset by things going bad in relationships and work as well.
Venus-Uranus in Cancer show the need for a nurturing wife, but at the same time he does not want to feel hemmed in by that. Too much fussing about is not for him. His Venus wants to keep a certain freedom and if I am not mistaken he must have had a negative experience with a woman in his life (Venus in 8, crisis, pain in connection with affections), not necessarily his mother but maybe a beloved sister or nanny whom he lost, after which he became very self-defensive (Cancer) as soon as someone would start coming too close.(out of fear of loosing that person again). Maybe that's why he sub-consciously choose this non-nurturing wife. Nevertheless, underneath it all, he really needs and wants nurturing but probably associates it with "loosing her once he lets her in". It is complicated, I can feel it but have difficulties describing it.
Also note that his Venus is intercepted in the 8th house. He has trouble opening up, really giving AND taking is hard for him, so yes, you could have guessed rightly there that you scared him a bit with all you very good and loving intentions of comforting and spoiling him.
I do believe that this is a very nice and compatible relationship, just try to understand where he comes from. What could also problematic is your oppositions of Sun and Moon opposed to Mars and Pluto, falling in his 4th and 10th houses. If you loose the ability of handling this very strong and difficult energy, it will have an effect on his private and public life as well. You have your own relationship issues to work on (mostly being a bit too pushy, needy and looking for security in a man instead of yourself which could be very detrimental to a relationship as you must know for sure) before you can establish a good working relationship with this man. He likes a sensual woman, not so much a clinging one.
OK Fanny, I must do some other work now and in the afternoon I am gone so I guess tomorrow or later in the day I will have a look at your anwers and we take it from there. Cheers, Star.

fannie0303

11-16-2007, 11:25 PM

Thank You Starlight for taking the time to respond to my questions!

First I was reading the part about the Carol Rushman Theory. When I looked at my chart the applying aspects to my sun are as follows: Venus Sun conjunction with an orb of 9.59, Mars Sun opposition with orb of 8.16, Uranus Sun opposition with an orb of 0.02, Neptune Sun Trine with orb of 7.12, Pluto Sun opposition with orb of 2.19, and Chiron Sun Conjunction with an orb of 5.11. As the Moon, Saturn and Mercury conjunctions are all separating, would they not be applicable in this theory? Maybe I am misunderstanding the meaning of applying and separating in this instance.

I don’t know the ascendant of the first man I lived with, as he doesn’t know his birth time, but he was a Gemini with Moon in Scorpio, Venus in Cancer, Mars in Virgo. I hate to generalize, but I always thought he might have had a Libra ascendant due to his charm, good looks and consistent philandering, up to his last marriage to a very strong, bring home the bacon Leo woman. He was 17 years older than me. My next live in was Libra with Leo rising with tons of personal planets in Scorpio. Both of these men proposed, but well after they had cheated on me. The Libra/Leo is the only one that I breathe a sigh of relief that I didn’t end up with J and with whom I am no longer in touch.

Have you found that this theory bears weight in your own marriages or close calls?

Based on this, looking at only the applying aspects, would the aspects in order of strength go something like this? Uranus Sun opposition with an orb of 0.02, Pluto Sun opposition with orb of 2.19, (Perhaps Sean?) Neptune Sun Trine with orb of 7.12, Venus Sun conjunction with an orb of 9.59, and finally Mars Sun opposition with orb of 8.16? Although I do feel a strong affinity with my Venus in Pisces as it is the first planet closest to the Ascendant, and have seen that interpreted as having more weight in a chart.

Sean’s applying aspects to his moon are Moon Sextile Venus 2.28, Moon Sextile Uranus 5.00 and Moon Trine Chiron 0.03. ( I can’t see how Chiron would work in this theory as there isn’t a Chiron Ascendant nor an agreed upon rulership.) I have no idea what his first wife’s ascendant is, but mine, being Aquarius and his second applying aspect being the sextile with Uranus definitely suggests me. Interestingly, he has said he felt more married to me than he ever did to his first wife, and when I spoke to him recently about the idea of us dating slowly, he said “I don’t know if I am ready to get married” which I thought was a rather bizarre comment at the time, but I do feel that he perceives me as marriage material. When we were first communicating by phone he mentioned marriage quite a few times.

“His Moon is completely at the beginning of Virgo so that means that there could be a number of possibilities for marriage but it is up to him if he takes the jump of course, but the potential will be there (just like it would be there for you with all those aspects. Just remember, conjunctions are of utmost importance and he has only 0ne conjunction which coincidentally also trines his Mars in 7.)”

Sorry, but which conjunction is that? I don’t see it. I see his conjunction to MC, but that doesn’t trine his Mars. His Saturn does however trine Mars.

You asked Moulin to look at this in a Magi Astrological sort of way. I personally never heard of Magi and am interested to know what it is all about.

I am new to this forum, but I will try to link you to a thread where she discusses it. I downloaded a book from the Magi Society website, http://www.magiastrology.com/ (http://www.magiastrology.com/) and they have a great deal to say about the Uranus Venus conjunction. Here is an excerpt:

“We've explained that we can accurately determine the range of influence of any(Natal) aspect by combining the various symbolisms of the planets that create an aspect. For example, if Venus and Uranus form an aspect, then the aspect can mean:
* money (Venus) from the entertainment business (Uranus);
* famous (Uranus) good looks (Venus);
* desire (Venus) for independence (Uranus); or
* changes (Uranus) of love relationships (Venus).

It can also mean any other combination of the symbolisms of Venus and Uranus. It is even possible for someone with the Venus-Uranus aspect to reflect all of the above. Interestingly enough, the two persons who most perfectly fit all of the above interpretations are Elizabeth Taylor and Warren Beatty. Both of them were born with the Venus-Uranus conjunction, which is a sign of someone who prefers to change lovers and not be with any individual for an extended period of time. The term extended period of time also has a much shorter duration in the minds of natives of Venus-Uranus aspects. (A native is the person born with the aspect.) Taylor and Beatty handled their Venus-Uranus conjunctions a little differently. This is because men and women react somewhat differently to the influences of the aspects. Because Taylor is a woman, she has the greater need to be married; women have the biological clock ticking and the instinctual desire for children. So, Taylor got married and divorced eight times. That is a lot of "I do's" and a lot of "I no longer do's." It takes something uncommon in a person to be able to go through all of these marriages without going bonkers. It is the Venus-Uranus conjunction Taylor was born with that not only helped her through all those marriages and divorces, but also spurred her on to keep getting married. Most of us go through heartaches when we break up with anyone we have loved. However, the Venus-Uranus person usually breathes a sigh of relief and relishes the thought of their next love partner.

So far, Warren Beatty hasn't said "I do" more than once. But he did say "I won't" a whole lot of times-a lot more than eight times. And most of these times, his "I won'ts" were probably Shermanesque, meaning they were unequivocal. (General Sherman, you might recall, did not want to be president of this country, but others wanted to draft him for the nomination. He stopped that movement when he made his now famous statement: "If nominated I will not run. If elected, I will not serve.") What this tells us is that your chances of marrying someone are dramatically decreased if that person has the Venus-Uranus natal aspect. It also means that if you do marry such a person, the person could get the seven-year itch in seven months. We believe that none of the above is the actual result of an influence by the Venus- Uranus conjunction, but rather this conjunction is a sign of the soul and what the person is really like. We also want to repeat that astrology is not an exact science and everyone has free will. The wind may blow one way, but a person can decide to walk against the wind. Similarly, a person can go against the normal attributes of a natal aspect. It would be best for a person to learn to be a reflection of the best interpretation of their natal aspects. For example, Venus-Uranus could be "love (Venus) for the world (Uranus).

In addition, when analyzing natal aspects, it is imperative to take into account all of the natal aspects that a person was born with. Some aspects cancel each other out or are overpowered by another one or more aspects.

What is an aspect of fidelity and steadiness in love relationships? The aspect that is the most reliable indication of loyalty and faithfulness is the Venus-Jupiter enhancement. This aspect's many interpretations include that of loyalty (Jupiter) and fidelity (Jupiter) in unions (Venus). Our research shows that persons born with the Venus-Jupiter enhancements are involved in fewer divorces than any other aspect. Also, weddings that take place with this aspect are the least likely to end up in divorce; this is due to natalization of that aspect and preserving the energy of the aspect.”

Jack Nicholson also has the Uranus Venus conjunction. “Sean’s” Venus and Jupiter are square. "Sean" had a number of extra-marital “one night stands” while he was married - he travelled alot - and one 7 year affair with a woman in his office. She too was married. All is not lost however, as he has actually exhibited extremely strong behaviours reflecting conscience and fidelity since I have known him.

I looked at both your Moons and they feel really comfortable with one another, a very big PLUS in synastry. If Moons dont match you will never really feel at home with one another, no matter how compatible the rest of the chart is. Sun signs also compatible. Your Moon trines his Sun.
Did you mean that my Moon Sextiles his Sun with a large Orb? I like your comment about the moons and have worried about our Moon Venus Opposition.

He can be very upset by things going bad in relationships and work as well. Yes, he was so upset when our relationship was ending that he literally revised our history in his head. When he told me these historical revisions I calmly told him exactly what had actually happened. It took him a month and a half of dwelling and not communicating with me about it, before he could tell me he wasn't in love with me anymore. He also has stated that he can’t remember the first 3 years of his marriage. Which coincides with their unexpectedly quick adoption of a infant child in their 3rd year of marriage, just as he was planning on leaving the marriage.

Venus-Uranus in Cancer show the need for a nurturing wife, but at the same time he does not want to feel hemmed in by that. Too much fussing about is not for him. His Venus wants to keep a certain freedom
Initially he stated, the first time I cooked a meal for him, “that this is what I have always wanted” (his anorexic wife apparently never cooked for him or the children). Yes, he has shown that he feels uncomfortable when he doesn’t give as much as me and seems to feel guilty when he doesn’t / can’t reciprocate. I have learned to kick back and let him wait on me, when we spend time together.

“if I am not mistaken he must have had a negative experience with a woman in his life (Venus in 8, crisis, pain in connection with affections), not necessarily his mother but maybe a beloved sister or nanny whom he lost, after which he became very self-defensive (Cancer) as soon as someone would start coming too close.(out of fear of loosing that person again). Maybe that's why he sub-consciously choose this non-nurturing wife. Nevertheless, underneath it all, he really needs and wants nurturing but probably associates it with "loosing her once he lets her in". It is complicated, I can feel it but have difficulties describing it.”
He has told me that his mother is very self absorbed, (We have this in common, although my Mother was a fantastic mother when we were children) and his brother was hit by a school bus, right in front of him when he was 8 and Sean was @23 years old. His relationship to his brother was more fatherly than brotherly apparently. His only sister is also a Pisces and they are fairly close. It seems she is the person he opens up to most in his family. And I believe I would be the person he has opened up to most in his life. He finally told his parents that he was separated from his wife this June, about 2.5 years after they separated. There was huge parental pressure from both his mother and father for him to marry his high school girlfriend and he never actually proposed: the mothers just got together and set up the whole wedding, twice. He called off the first wedding a week before it was scheduled to happen, but showed up for the second, a few months later. Apparently his parents have not taken the news of the separation well.

I do believe that this is a very nice and compatible relationship, just try to understand where he comes from. What could also problematic is your oppositions of Sun and Moon opposed to Mars and Pluto, falling in his 4th and 10th houses. If you loose the ability of handling this very strong and difficult energy, it will have an effect on his private and public life as well. You have your own relationship issues to work on (mostly being a bit too pushy, needy and looking for security in a man instead of yourself which could be very detrimental to a relationship as you must know for sure) before you can establish a good working relationship with this man. He likes a sensual woman, not so much a clinging one.
Yes, I have always felt that together we would be an extremely complimentary couple both professionally and socially. He is extremely entrepreneurial, and I am not so much, sort of always professionally being “the right hand man” but could see some type of business partnership between us. We talked about various business we might start here alot, before I moved here.

We are both quite charming and outgoing people ;) He said recently when we were joking about blind dates, that he had never been on one, and that it wasn’t likely that I would ever set him up. To which I replied that he was absolutely right, ( I certainly am not at the point that I would share him with anyone) but that I didn’t recall him introducing me to anyone, and he meets lots of men in his line of work. To which he responded quite seriously that he had never met a man who would be strong enough for me. He can tell that I am not clingy and really I was that way only for a short period of time when I first arrived here and had no friends or work, and this was exacerbated by his emotional withdrawal from me. It is extremely important to him that the woman in his life is financially self supporting and independent, which is actually a pretty good description of me, under normal conditions – those being, either when I am alone, or in a secure relationship. Anyway, your description of me is entirely accurate, when I am not in control of these energies, and I appreciate them being reiterated J

This time I have also added our composite chart, where we are currently living.

Once again, thank you so much for all of this. Your are extremely insightful!
Fannie

fannie0303

11-16-2007, 11:37 PM

Thank You Starlight for taking the time to respond to my questions!

First I was reading the part about the Carol Rushman Theory. When I looked at my chart the applying aspects to my sun are as follows: Venus Sun conjunction with an orb of 9.59, Mars Sun opposition with orb of 8.16, Uranus Sun opposition with an orb of 0.02, Neptune Sun Trine with orb of 7.12, Pluto Sun opposition with orb of 2.19, and Chiron Sun Conjunction with an orb of 5.11. As the Moon, Saturn and Mercury conjunctions are all separating, would they not be applicable in this theory? Maybe I am misunderstanding the meaning of applying and separating in this instance.

I don’t know the ascendant of the first man I lived with, as he doesn’t know his birth time, but he was a Gemini with Moon in Scorpio, Venus in Cancer, Mars in Virgo. I hate to generalize, but I always thought he might have had a Libra ascendant due to his charm, good looks and consistent philandering, up to his last marriage to a very strong, bring home the bacon Leo woman. He was 17 years older than me. My next live in was Libra with Leo rising with tons of personal planets in Scorpio. Both of these men proposed, but well after they had cheated on me. The Libra/Leo is the only one that I breathe a sigh of relief that I didn’t end up with J and with whom I am no longer in touch.

Have you found that this theory bears weight in your own marriages or close calls?

Based on this, looking at only the applying aspects, would the aspects in order of strength go something like this? Uranus Sun opposition with an orb of 0.02, Pluto Sun opposition with orb of 2.19, (Perhaps Sean?) Neptune Sun Trine with orb of 7.12, Venus Sun conjunction with an orb of 9.59, and finally Mars Sun opposition with orb of 8.16? Although I do feel a strong affinity with my Venus in Pisces as it is the first planet closest to the Ascendant, and have seen that interpreted as having more weight in a chart.

Sean’s applying aspects to his moon are Moon Sextile Venus 2.28, Moon Sextile Uranus 5.00 and Moon Trine Chiron 0.03. ( I can’t see how Chiron would work in this theory as there isn’t a Chiron Ascendant nor an agreed upon rulership.) I have no idea what his first wife’s ascendant is, but mine, being Aquarius and his second applying aspect being the sextile with Uranus definitely suggests me. Interestingly, he has said he felt more married to me than he ever did to his first wife, and when I spoke to him recently about the idea of us dating slowly, he said “I don’t know if I am ready to get married” which I thought was a rather bizarre comment at the time, but I do feel that he perceives me as marriage material. When we were first communicating by phone he mentioned marriage quite a few times.

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Sorry, but which conjunction is that? I don’t see it. I see his conjunction to MC, but that doesn’t trine his Mars. His Saturn does however trine Mars.

I am new to this forum, but I will try to link you to a thread where she discusses it. I downloaded a book from the Magi Society website, http://www.magiastrology.com/ (http://www.magiastrology.com/) and they have a great deal to say about the Uranus Venus conjunction. Here is an excerpt:

“We've explained that we can accurately determine the range of influence of any(Natal) aspect by combining the various symbolisms of the planets that create an aspect. For example, if Venus and Uranus form an aspect, then the aspect can mean:
[SIZE=3]* money (Venus) from the entertainment business (Uranus);
* famous (Uranus) good looks (Venus);
* desire (Venus) for independence (Uranus); or
* changes (Uranus) of love relationships (Venus).

It can also mean any other combination of the symbolisms of Venus and Uranus. It is even possible for someone with the Venus-Uranus aspect to reflect all of the above. Interestingly enough, the two persons who most perfectly fit all of the above interpretations are Elizabeth Taylor and Warren Beatty. Both of them were born with the Venus-Uranus conjunction, which is a sign of someone who prefers to change lovers and not be with any individual for an extended period of time. The term extended period of time also has a much shorter duration in the minds of natives of Venus-Uranus aspects. (A native is the person born with the aspect.) Taylor and Beatty handled their Venus-Uranus conjunctions a little differently. This is because men and women react somewhat differently to the influences of the aspects. Because Taylor is a woman, she has the greater need to be married; women have the biological clock ticking and the instinctual desire for children. So, Taylor got married and divorced eight times. That is a lot of "I do's" and a lot of "I no longer do's." It takes something uncommon in a person to be able to go through all of these marriages without going bonkers. It is the Venus-Uranus conjunction Taylor was born with that not only helped her through all those marriages and divorces, but also spurred her on to keep getting married. Most of us go through heartaches when we break up with anyone we have loved. However, the Venus-Uranus person usually breathes a sigh of relief and relishes the thought of their next love partner.

So far, Warren Beatty hasn't said "I do" more than once. But he did say "I won't" a whole lot of times-a lot more than eight times. And most of these times, his "I won'ts" were probably Shermanesque, meaning they were unequivocal. (General Sherman, you might recall, did not want to be president of this country, but others wanted to draft him for the nomination. He stopped that movement when he made his now famous statement: "If nominated I will not run. If elected, I will not serve.") What this tells us is that your chances of marrying someone are dramatically decreased if that person has the Venus-Uranus natal aspect. It also means that if you do marry such a person, the person could get the seven-year itch in seven months. We believe that none of the above is the actual result of an influence by the Venus- Uranus conjunction, but rather this conjunction is a sign of the soul and what the person is really like. We also want to repeat that astrology is not an exact science and everyone has free will. The wind may blow one way, but a person can decide to walk against the wind. Similarly, a person can go against the normal attributes of a natal aspect. It would be best for a person to learn to be a reflection of the best interpretation of their natal aspects. For example, Venus-Uranus could be "love (Venus) for the world (Uranus).

What is an aspect of fidelity and steadiness in love relationships? The aspect that is the most reliable indication of loyalty and faithfulness is the Venus-Jupiter enhancement. This aspect's many interpretations include that of loyalty (Jupiter) and fidelity (Jupiter) in unions (Venus). Our research shows that persons born with the Venus-Jupiter enhancements are involved in fewer divorces than any other aspect. Also, weddings that take place with this aspect are the least likely to end up in divorce; this is due to natalization of that aspect and preserving the energy of the aspect.”

Jack Nicholson also has the Uranus Venus conjunction. “Sean’s” Venus and Jupiter are square. "Sean" had a number of extra-marital “one night stands” while he was married - he travelled alot - and one 7 year affair with a woman in his office. She too was married. All is not lost however, as he has actually exhibited extremely strong behaviours reflecting conscience and fidelity since I have known him.

[SIZE=3]Did you mean that my Moon Sextiles his Sun with a large Orb? I like your comment about the moons and have worried about our Moon Venus Opposition.

[size=2] Yes, he was so upset when our relationship was ending that he literally revised our history in his head. When he told me these historical revisions I calmly told him exactly what had actually happened. It took him a month and a half of dwelling and not communicating with me about it, before he could tell me he wasn't in love with me anymore. He also has stated that he can’t remember the first 3 years of his marriage. Which coincides with their unexpectedly quick adoption of a infant child in their 3rd year of marriage, just as he was planning on leaving the marriage.

[font=Verdana][font=Verdana][size=2]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Initially he stated, the first time I cooked a meal for him, “that this is what I have always wanted” (his anorexic wife apparently never cooked for him or the children). Yes, he has shown that he feels uncomfortable when he doesn’t give as much as me and seems to feel guilty when he doesn’t / can’t reciprocate. I have learned to kick back and let him wait on me, when we spend time together.

[font=Times New Roman][font=Verdana][COLOR=#000033][font=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][size=2]
He has told me that his mother is very self absorbed, (We have this in common, although my Mother was a fantastic mother when we were children) and his brother was hit by a school bus, right in front of him when he was 8 and Sean was @23 years old. His relationship to his brother was more fatherly than brotherly apparently. I recall him saying how his mother changed after the death of her son, focusing on his loss, and neglecting the 4 children still alive. His only sister is also a Pisces and they are fairly close. It seems she is the person he opens up to most in his family. And I believe I would be the person he has opened up to most in his life. He finally told his parents that he was separated from his wife this June, about 2.5 years after they separated. There was huge parental pressure from both his mother and father for him to marry his high school girlfriend and he never actually proposed: the mothers just got together and set up the whole wedding, twice. He called off the first wedding a week before it was scheduled to happen, but showed up for the second, a few months later. Apparently his parents have not taken the news of the separation well, and currently him mother speaks to him as she would an aquaintance.

[FONT=Verdana][FONT=Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=#000033][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#000033][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][size=2]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Yes, I have always felt that together we would be an extremely complimentary couple both professionally and socially. He is extremely entrepreneurial, and I am not so much, sort of always professionally being “the right hand man” but could see some type of business partnership between us. We talked about various business we might start here alot, before I moved here.

We are both quite charming and outgoing people ;) He said recently when we were joking about blind dates, that he had never been on one, and that it wasn’t likely that I would ever set him up. To which I replied that he was absolutely right, ( I certainly am not at the point that I would share him with anyone) but that I didn’t recall him introducing me to anyone, and he meets lots of men in his line of work. To which he responded quite seriously that he had never met a man who would be strong enough for me. He can tell that I am not clingy and really I was that way only for a short period of time when I first arrived here and had no friends or work, and this was exacerbated by his emotional withdrawal from me. It is extremely important to him that the woman in his life is financially self supporting and independent, which is actually a pretty good description of me, under normal conditions – those being, either when I am alone, or in a secure relationship. Anyway, your description of me is entirely accurate, when I am not in control of these energies, and I appreciate them being reiterated [FONT=Wingdings]J This time I have also added our composite chart, where we are currently living. Once again, thank you so much for all of this. You are extremely insightful!
Fannie **********

fannie0303

11-16-2007, 11:41 PM

Hi Starlight. I was trying to edit the original message, and ended up posting it all over again but without your quotes. Anyway the only significant change is in this paragraph:
He has told me that his mother is very self absorbed, (We have this in common, although my Mother was a fantastic mother when we were children) and his brother was hit by a school bus, right in front of him when he was 8 and Sean was @23 years old. His relationship to his brother was more fatherly than brotherly apparently. I recall him saying how his mother changed after the death of her son, focusing on this loss, and neglecting the 4 children still alive. His only sister is also a Pisces and they are fairly close. It seems she is the person he opens up to most in his family. And I believe I would be the person he has opened up to most in his life. He finally told his parents that he was separated from his wife this June, about 2.5 years after they separated. There was huge parental pressure from both his mother and father for him to marry his high school girlfriend and he never actually proposed: the mothers just got together and set up the whole wedding, twice. He called off the first wedding a week before it was scheduled to happen, but showed up for the second, a few months later. Apparently his parents have not taken the news of the separation well, and currently him mother speaks to him as she would an aquaintance.

fannie0303

11-16-2007, 11:48 PM

Hi Starlight:
Moulin's references to Magi Astrology can be found in the thread "Saturn Clashes" in Relational Astrology.
Fannie

Ostara75

11-17-2007, 06:39 AM

Could somebody please explain to me why a conjunction of Venus and Chiron could denote insensitivity? I would have thought the opposite.

starlink

11-17-2007, 04:11 PM

Hello Fanny! Thanks for your long reply, really nice of you. Yes, I found this Carol Rushman rule work in my life, 2 very important relationships, one married, the other one I will marry next year and at my age I dont think any more marriages are in order! I did have one extremely important affair with a Medical Doctor from Canada which lasted about 7 month, but I was still married (my husband at that tîme just lived his own life, left me with the kids alone assuming I was happy that way. On the weekends he would go deepsea diving in the morning, then would take flying classes in the afternoon. I started deepsea diving to accompany him and then he left me alone under water!!!! His friend was appalled about that because it is bloody dangerous to leave your buddy alone). Needless to say, I felt lonely and being a Venus conjunct Mars in Aries in the 5th house and Venus trine Pluto, you can imagine, that I was in need of quite a bit of affection + which I did not or hardly get at home anymore. This man was not married and we decided to stop seeing one another because, after all, I still loved my husband. 20 years later I found him in the internet (search people) and called him up!! He could not believe it and he told me he had kept all my letters and little presents I gave him. Sooooo romantic, oh my God. He is married now but we email 2x a year. He is born on May 6, me on May 5, just different years. Then I also had a very, very nice relationship during the time my husband was having his bit on the side and left me home for weeks on end. That lasted at least a year. And the last one was when I had left my husband and lived alone, but then I met the one I am living with now, and although I still get terrible butterflies when I think of this last one (he called me several times over the last 10 years, but I was STRONG!!! most difficult thing I ever have done, really proud of my own self-discipline! ha ha, I did not want to jeopardise my relationship with the man I am living with now. That man was 15 years younger than me, very exciting......
Anyways, yes, I found that it worked. Oh yeah, I was also asked to marry another one before my first husband which I refused.
So I guess, that the aspect of Sean's Moon with Uranus could well be you.
The conjunction with Saturn comes at the end of his sign Virgo. You must just look at that Moon moving on, like in horary actually, and yes, he passes the MC, but that does not count, nor the Chiron aspect. Chiron cannot signify a potential partner or lover. Now from all those Moon aspects he could just choose 2 to marry and all the other ones could just have been flings. I was actually thinking that the Saturn conjunction could represent you and him. Now, remember what Rushmann said. A conjunction comes always first in order, no matter when that conjunction is made (that's how I understood it) even though the sextile aspect is closer. In his chart you could say that there are 4 real aspects, with Venus and Uranus a sextile, with Mars a Square and with Saturn a conjunction. I would not take it completely as 100% as Rushman also says, but she found it very helpful and in her case it really did work (she had 7 marriage proposals and only married 2 men).
About an aspect in the past, that also counts as one. Just take the Moon to 1° of his sign and from there on just look which traditional aspects she makes.one 7 year affair with a woman in his office
This must be one of his aspects!
his brother was hit by a school bus, right in front of him when he was 8 and Sean was @23 years old. His relationship to his brother was more fatherly than brotherly apparently. I recall him saying how his mother changed after the death of her son, focusing on his loss, and neglecting the 4 children still alive.
Well, this is then what I mean. I think it is the loss of his brother and the subsequent "loss" of his mother after that because she then forgot about him and the others. Because I saw Venus, I thought maybe a sister, a female person, but a brother is also a "beloved" person and if he felt like a father to him, I can imagine what he went through. It did cross my mind indeed that someone had died, seeing that Venus in the 8th. Interesting.
Psychologically you do then often get this: I better not love anymore in case I will loose that person again, because that hurts too much.
I know a man who only has 1 daughter. He told me that he did not want to hug or hold her or get too close to her because he feared that if anything would happen to her, and he would be too close to her, he would be devastated. I asked him WHY??? He told me that he lost both his parents when he was very young. I felt really bad for the little girl, because she will have this thing in her life of "men not loving her".

before he could tell me he wasn't in love with me anymore
I dont really believe this. I am sure he loves you. one 7 year affair with a woman in his office

He finally told his parents that he was separated from his wife this June, about 2.5 years after they separated.
Holy smoke!! You are telling me that they did not figure this out before???? Some communication there!
Must go now, will come back another time! Cheers, Starlink

fannie0303

11-18-2007, 08:18 PM

Hi Starlight!
I really enjoyed reading your last post! Your husband sounded like an extremely selfish man....Oh they do come along sometimes. I have done a bit of diving and am aware of how dangerous this is. Thank you for sharing your personal experiences. I noticed on another post that you were unable to resize your chart. What I find works, is to open the saved file with Microsoft Paint application and then go to image, resize until you get it to less than 100 MB. Anyway, please contact me any time you would like me to resize a chart for me to post. You could just e-mail me the file, I could resize it for you and e-mail it back. I will send you a separate message with my e-mail address. You seem like a very interesting person and I would very much like to see your chart!

I am interested in your comment that Sean and I could be indicated by his Moon/Saturn conjunction. Could you elaborate?

What a sad story about the man and his daughter. It sounds like he could use some time in therapy or some other means to change this situation while he stil can.

Yes, about Sean's parents. Neither his parents or his children ever had any idea that Sean's marriage was bad. I have met families before that never talk about anything important. He moved out west here from the other side of Canada in August of 2005. This is a common move for people as they come here to work, and often the wife will not relocate with the husband. The only person who was aware that there was a problem was his 17 year old daughter who was still living with her parents, and was aware that they had been in separate bedrooms for 8 months prior to his move.

Your comments regarding Sean's loss of his brother got me thinking about the timing of his brother’s death. Although I don't know the specific date, I think it was probably June 19, 1974, that his brother was killed, when transiting direct Saturn conjoined his 8th house Venus/Vertex/Uranus Natal conjunction, opposite his natal Chiron at 2 degrees of Capricorn and trine his natal Ceres on his fourth house cusp. Transiting Pluto was also squaring his Natal Venus Uranus, Chiron and Vertex. Transiting retrograde Uranus was also squaring his Natal Moon and Ceres.

With this current retrograde Mars in his 8th house I am sure you can see why I would be concerned for him.

He works in the oil business in a very hands-on job, dealing especially with mechanical machinery as well as with liquid Nitrogen and I will ask him to be especially careful the week when his transiting retrograde Mars conjuncts his natal Uranus/Vertex/Venus, in the days before and after December 14. I am hoping the transiting Pluto/Jupiter conjunction conjoining his Natal Chiron will mitigate anything bad happening.

I have been also been thinking about the current Mars Retrograde in terms of our relationship. I feel that there may be a possibility that Sean may rethink our relationship and he may come back to me, especially when his Mars conjuncts his Natal Venus, Vertex, Uranus conjunction, which trines my natal Venus and his Natal Ceres which is conjunct my Natal Saturn. The retrograde mars will get within less than 1 degree of his seventh/eighth house cusp. And as his Mars ruler Aries rules his 5th house, I believe that this adds to the possibility.

I know the specific day that I realized that things had turned bad in our relationship and I felt that he didn’t love me anymore, (this was at least a month and a half before he told me) and I looked it up. Uranus went retrograde in Pisces that day, June 20, 2006 exactly conjunct my natal moon and it will go direct during this Mars retrograde, around the 25th of November, I believe. The retrograde mars will get within less than 1 degree of his seventh/eighth house cusp. I have usually found Mars retrogrades personally pretty positive as I was born with Retrograde Mars. Plus Mars will mostly be trining or sextiling most of my planets as it is in retrograde motion.

I am currently looking for work as I got laid off in early September and have had little luck finding a job. I keep getting told I am either overqualified or in one case under qualified for the jobs :) I am hoping the Uranus direct will end this situation, as it has been sitting on my moon for what feels like forever!!!!

So Starlight, I am curious. Are you Swiss or did you move there from somewhere else? Your English sounds like it is your Mother tongue.

Thanks again for any feedback you are able to offer.:)
Fannie

saree

03-06-2009, 04:18 PM

hi..!!

its been more than a year i guess, loads have changed i had decided to speak up to Starlink as i promised her i would keep her updated.

well Aneeza, and i became really close, and i decided to marry her, and flew over to meet her parents, but they didn't agree.

and then she kept on calling, and crying and couldn't persuade her parents either.

Now she is getting married to someone else in few days, and i feel like i am devastated.

I am very successful in business and i had so many aspirations, and now i feel i am stoned, i can't feel anything and i don't know why i am alive.

its been months, i tried antidepressent as well...still using them for more than 6 months now.

could anyone help me with this regard?

I had my venus opposit her mars, i am going to upload our updated synastry chart and also our transit charts.

please help me out, please anyone, some advice, some piece of wisdom, some prediction of coming good fortune in love.

starlink

03-06-2009, 08:03 PM

Saree, thank you so much for your feedback. I am truly sorry for what happened to you but please dont let this get you so down. Read over this whole thread and maybe, you might even count yourself lucky that this marriage was prevented. You wrote;

But at this point in my life, i dont feel like making a decision

The fact that you changed your mind could be because of some affinity between your charts:

There is quite a bit of affinity between your charts. Your Moon in the 8th, her Sun in Scorpio, same Ascendants but there is one crucial thing lacking and that is a connection between your Marses and Venusses. Yes, the Marses are in compatible signs, the Venusses as well, (affinity, not necessarily compatibility) but there is NO connection between your Venus and her Mars or vice versa and I think that that is necessary in a relationship where sex also plays a role.

As I wrote in my first post, there are many disharmonic aspects between you both and often stress aspects can manifest as "attractive and exciting" in the beginning but turn out really sour, once you are in a real close, longterm, relationship. Difficult to believe right now maybe, but sometimes realization comes later:)

Wishing you all the best, Starlink

saree

03-06-2009, 08:13 PM

hi..

how have you been? its so good to hear from you..i feel healed a bit to know that you are still here.

I attached new chart of our synastry which is more accurate..i didn't even she didnt know that she was born on 29th.

her mars is opposit my venus and i have never seen such attraction aspect.

starlink

03-06-2009, 08:20 PM

One more thing Saree:

You said: We are at times more sensitive to our own vulnerabilities .... so sensitivity without sensability at times becomes Selfishness...

This also can, over time, become a real problem.

In the light of your present state, I remember you saying this.

choices become limited in Emotional turmoil.

Please keep this in mind. You have other choices, one of them NOT to give in to depressive moods. Jupiter conjunct your Asc. from the 12th house side will give you the necessary push to get over this.

Effie

03-08-2009, 03:24 AM

Hi Starlink,

What is more powerful in a synastry? The moon-Jupiter conjunction? Or the Moon-Venus conjunction?

Thanks.

Oh Saree, I had a very, very long answer here and I dont know WHAT I did, but all of a sudden I was in Yahoo mail!!!! I am sooooo angry!!
All I want to tell you is that it does not look good at all. I had written every detail down, I just dont feel like going over it again, sorry. Moons are incompatible, Ascendants are incompatible, Suns are incompatible and the worst of all is that her Moon squares your Moon, the ruler of her Moon, Saturn is opposing your Moon and her Sun squares your Venus. There is not even a Moon-Jupiter or a Moon-Venus aspect (maybe her Moon trines your Venus but I cannot see the degrees in this chart, very difficult to assess.) Her Moon and your Venus are compatible, and both your Venusses also are in compatible signs, but that is about it. She has real issues I should add. She will find it very difficult to open up emotionally. Moon in Capricorn square her Saturn. Saturn and Asc. square Venus (T-square), really difficult to have in a chart, especially for a woman and even though she has the ruler of her Ascendant in Cancer, showing some degree of caring and nurturing, the square to Saturn and the Ascendant shows that she does not really like that sort of thing. Also ruler of 7 is in her 1st: she does not really need other people.(ruler 1 in 7 shows the opposite). Her Libra Ascendant is an indication that she likes one to one relationships, but somehow, she does not know how to handle relationships. Mars conjunct Jupiter shows more than one relationship/marriage. The rulers of her 2nd house, Pluto and Mars are both in her 1st house. Her personality is strongly depending on what she possesses. She has a tendency to show off her assets (if she has them). She can be possessive and difficult, moody.
I dont know, you know her better after 7 years, but my feeling is that this is not going to be good for you. You are quite dominant too with your Moon in Aries and the ruler Mars in Leo which could clash with her Pluto-Mars in her first house. I think she is ambitious and she could be interested in a good party to marry if you know what I mean. You have the ruler of the 2nd in Taurus, very dignified so you could be well off financially.Does Venus trine your Ascendant by any chance? Again, I cannot see the degrees.
What does the I-Ching tell you? OK Saree, I must go now. Let me know what you think of this. Cheers, Starlink

starlink

03-08-2009, 10:32 AM

What is more powerful in a synastry? The moon-Jupiter conjunction? Or the Moon-Venus conjunction?

In my experience the Moon-Venus conjunction. It will help counteract a lot of difficult aspects between other planets. I am always looking for a trine or conjunction between these two.

Moon-Jupiter is also very very nice of course because the person with the Jupiter is able to uplift the mood of the person with the Moon and should this Moon have a problematic Saturn aspect to it for instance, (showing a tendency to feeling down) than that Jupiter can do wonders for this person.

Effie

03-08-2009, 01:44 PM

OK Starlink, thanks for responding. Another question, do you know of a program online or a software where you can run synastries between the progressed charts fo two people, or between a progressed chart and a natal chart between two individuals? I don't think Astrodiest supports this option, unless it does and I haven't seen it so far...

Best,
Effie.

saree

03-08-2009, 04:13 PM

hi..!!

Starlink thanks for the great piece of advice.

If you have time, can you look at my chart and see if there are any chances that i would be able to find someone as exciting as Aneeza?

i am not sure if that has happened to anyone? But its like once you experience such high mental rapport, it becomes difficult to settle for any less?

I do get admiration from loads of girls, but i miss the level of attraction created by Mars venus opposition, and if its there then i miss the stimulated conversations.

I had so many aspirations, and i am working on them too, but i suddenly seem devoid of life and passion.

please anyone speak up if you see good news in my chart.

starlink

03-08-2009, 07:55 PM

[quote=saree]hi..!!

Starlink thanks for the great piece of advice.

If you have time, can you look at my chart and see if there are any chances that i would be able to find someone as exciting as Aneeza?

Saree, I think you will need a fortune teller for this question I'm afraid. It really is impossible to see in a chart, if you will find a copy (sort of) of Aneeza.

i am not sure if that has happened to anyone? But its like once you experience such high mental rapport, it becomes difficult to settle for any less? Too high expectations can hamper future possibilities :o

I will PM you.

Starlink.