Sabian Symbol Confusion

[Buttercup]

If my Mercury is 13 Cancer 7', do I read the sabian symbol for 13 Cancer or 14 Cancer?

[sageofaquarius]

As there are no readings for 0 degrees to 0 degrees 59', these positions are interpreted as being in the 1st degree of that sign. 1 degree to 1 degree 59' will be in the 2nd degree, etc.

The answer to your question is therefore 14 Cancer.

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

Neither, you'd look at 12° Cancer.

A very old man facing a vast dark space to the northeast.

Sabian Symbols are based off of a 1°-30° 'scale'. Charts are generated from 0°-29°. So, 1° becomes 0°, 2° becomes 1°, etc, etc, etc.

[Buttercup]

Now I'm totally confused.:34:

[sageofaquarius]

Not the only time you'll be confused on these boards, Buttercup! There are differing opinions on many subjects.

It might be less confusing to take your readings from
www.cafeastrology.com/sabiansymbols_degreemeanings.html (http://www.cafeastrology.com/sabiansymbols_degreemeanings.html)

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

It's not really that complicated. I mean, it takes a little bit of thought, but once you get it, it's set.

0° marks the beginning of every constellation. 1° marks the beginning of the degree symbols. 29° marks the ending of every constellation. 30° marks the ending of the degree symbols. 0 to 29 are thirty distinct units/degrees. 1 to 30 are thirty distinct units/degrees. So, instead of changing the skies, you just push up the symbols' degrees. This way, the first degree of the Zodiac (0° Aries) lines up with the first symbol provided (1° Aries) and the final, 360th degree of the Zodiac (29° Pisces) lines up with the final 360th symbol provided (30° Pisces).

<.< Make sense? >.>

[Buttercup]

OK, The other issue is that all of the lists that I have seen have 12 Cancer as: "A Chinese woman nursing a baby whose aura reveals him to be the reincarnation of a great teacher."

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

Hahahaha! Too funny. Okay, my bad. Thank you for catching me.

See, what I did was I pushed Mercury back, when that's not what I was supposed to do. You're supposed to push the symbols back, not the sky. For some reason I wasn't thinking clearly. You'd use the fourteenth symbol in the constellation of Cancer for your Mercury.

That's one egg on my face. :34:

The symbol I provided earlier is the one that fits your Mercury. I have a document typed up with the symbols interpreted and I have them corrected wher 1° Aries is the 0° Aries mark, so I don't have to think about it, but perhaps I should next time.

[Buttercup]

Also do seconds matter? My venus is 25 Cancer 0'5''. Would I interpret that as 25 or 26 Cancer? My Mars in Virgo really needs to know! ;)

[Buttercup]

So are we in agreement that the Sabian symbol for 13 Cancer 7' is "A very old man faces a vast dark space to the Northeast"?

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

I've only ever considered the degree. I'm not sure if rounding up is appropriate in this situation. I've never tried.

Yes, 13 Cancer's symbol is the old man. 25 Cancer is 'guests are reading in the library of a luxurious home'.

[unukalhai]

Hello, my fellow Mars-in-Virgo... I have that placement as well :) We can certainly be a bit exacting, yes? But I dig it :D

The seconds do not count. The quick and easy way I use for the "translation" is to simply drop the numbers after the degree (both minutes and seconds of arc) and add one degree... 25Can00'05" = 25Can + 1 = 26Can.

14Cancer: AN OLD MAN, ALONE, FACES THE DARKNESS IN THE NORTHEAST
Dane Rudhyar: Fearlessness; and noble, self-perpetuating strength arising from knowledge. Courage in the facing of spiritual problems.
Marc Edmund Jones: When positive, the degree is a highly effective enlistment of deeper and hidden elements of life for some momentary end, and when negative, lack of purpose and utter chaos in understanding.

26Cancer: GUESTS ARE READING IN THE LIBRARY OF A LUXURIOUS HOME
Dane Rudhyar: Emergence of consciousness upon higher levels of being, once life has been fulfilled at normal levels. Conscious fruition.
Marc Edmund Jones: When positive, the degree is a relaxation valuable for the momentary sustainment of human aspiration whenever it is strained beyond its powers of self-regeneration, and when negative, the loss of all reality in a needless softness of living.

[Buttercup]

I appreciate your feedback. Would you do the same if it were
25 Cancer 0'0"?

[sageofaquarius]

Yes. Ignore minutes and seconds and add one to the degree.

[starlink]

Hi there, I just got the Sabian Symbols by Jones, so I was also asking myself how to do this. Thanks for the explanations. (although KnS also made me scratch my head in bewilderment!!). So actually, if I understand it well, every second over a whole degree will bring you to the next whole degree?

[lillyjgc]

Hi everyone: no way am I going to add to this confusion.
Here's a link....best wishes.
http://www.sabiansymbols.com/index.asp

[Buttercup]

Maybe we would have had better luck if I had named the thread "Sabian Symbol Clarity"! I could see adding a degree for 25 Cancer 0'1", but I'm having a hard time with adding a degree for 25 Cancer 0'0". In the case of my personal chart the symbol for 26 Cancer is dead on, I'd just like to be sure for future cases. I appreciater everyone's input.

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

(although KnS also made me scratch my head in bewilderment!!)

Yeah, I confused myself with that one, but I figured out what I did wrong. Sorry about that.

For chart placements, take the degree and add one for the cooresponding Symbol.

Example: My Sol is at 9°49'. So, I drop the 49' and am just left with 9°. Add one to that and I get 10° and that's the Symbol I use.

[starlink]

Ah OK, so actually you can just add 1° to any degree you find, whether it is 25°0'0' or 25° 07' or 25°49', it will always be 26°. Seems very easy to me, but I agree with Buttercup. 25°0' 0'' is 25°. Why do we have to make 26 out of that one? I better look at Lilly's Link, see if I find confirmation and consolation there LOL!

I looked at the link and I think I will buy the book. I have the Sabian Symbols from Jones, but like Noel Tyll says, it is written in a ponderous way. Indeed, Jones writes in a most complicated way, difficult to grasp at times. So this book looks more "user friendly" to me.
However, I could not find the answer to our dilemna. For the time being I will use the + 1° method for all degrees that are higher than the whole, if you know what I mean.

[Buttercup]

Thank you!

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

Okay, maybe this will help.

0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30

Okay, the top set of numbers is what you'd see in a chart, whereas the bottom set of numbers is how the Symbols are set up. The bolded numbers are the ones that coorespond to Buttercup's Venus. 25° of any Sign is technically the 26th degree, since we count the 0° as the first, the 1° as the second, etc, etc. What you're doing by not adding one is making your natal Venus move back a degree, which is what I accidentally did at first to your Mercury. That's bad.

The best example I can come up with would be the following scenario. Let's say you had a planet at 0°0'0'' Libra (181). Well, if you didn't add one, you would actually be reading the Symbol for the final degree of Virgo(180).

I hope I'm making sense. What I wouldn't give to be able to speak and gesture right about now.

[Buttercup]

Ok, my Mars in Virgo gets that! Thank you!

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

Yes! It appears lists of numbers greatly assist you Virgo people. :D

[Buttercup]

Lol!!!!!!!!!!

[starlink]

Good morning Kaiousei! THANK YOU! Now my Sun in the 6th house of Virgo indeed understands it perfectly well! I of course did not know how the Symbols were set up. You know a lot, as always, so thanks for sharing your knowledge with us so patiently (and that for a Leo is admirable!!). Star.