Identical Twins and gender Identification

[flea]

Oprah on one program interviewed three sets of identical twins where one twin felt they were the opposite sex and eventually had treatment for gender reassignment.

Seeing as the natal astrologies would only differ a few minutes, they have identical DNA, and evolved from a single divided cell, I am wondering how far astrology can be involved in gender identity.

As far as i am aware it is impossible to define gender by an astrological chart and so that each chart can be lived through a male of female body form.

What does this say about astrology's ability to talk of gender issues, it is a polarity that is not fully addressed in the current models of our universe in the form of a natal chart.

Genders issues generally are more widely talked about, and investigated, and also appreciated and denigrated in their forms, in our world today.

This is a queation about the edge of astrological influence (reflection), and whether new models of astrology may well be appropriate and of importance in the future.

Love Light and Peace
Flea

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

Ooh, this kind of reminds me of the Quartet member, Pallas. She has something to do with gender roles and issues.

I wish I knew more to expand on this...

Sorry, maybe it's the late night fog kind of clouding my mind, but for some reason I forgot that we were discussing twin charts! Hahaha.

Anyway, while Pallas does have some effect on gender identity and roles, there is no way this Quartet member is fast enough to effect one twin and not the other. Perhaps a very, very close aspect with the affected twin's Ascendant would be all it would require?

This could be very interesting if it were correct...

[starlink]

KnS, I think Flea is talking about 1 pair of twins who both want to change gender.
where one twin felt they were the opposite sex and eventually had treatment for gender reassignment.
.
You are thinking of one of the two I believe. Am I right Flea?

[Andonis]

A sex change could be treated as an event in the life of someone. I do not see why this is a problem, even though I do not have data o prove it.
Sex change in twins does not have to be in both persons simultaneously..... one twin may live in another city! (Environment does make a difference).

In trying to predict if twins in the same place, assuming both live in the same house will have the same sex change event is probably pushing our knowledge in new areas of application where we have not enough data not only in astrology but in genetics! It reminds me of amplifying small differences that exist in twins and during their life that they may be amplified and both twins gradually become different. So those who are bothered about it could be missing a vast area of real applications of astrology

[flea]

I was asking about a situation where one twin does and one twin doesn't. There is a strong difference of a sense of indentity between the two. As they are twins there is a scientific control, through sharing DNA.

I am wondering whether astrology can handle this issue at all. Is the edge of the curretnt model we work with, or is there something I am missing.

Love Light and Peace
Flea
(ps starlink I was using they in singular non gender specific form, sorry if it was confusing)

[Shining Ray]

I have seen this a few times were one twin will be different to the other twin. I watched a program where one twin was anorexic and near death and the other twin was perfectly healthy. I think from an astrological point of view they are both dealing with the same issues although one twin isn't dealing directly with it body wise, it is still an important factor in both of their lives, because they are so close. It's like you get twins and one twin may act more rebellious while the other doesn't, the rebelliousness will be shown in both charts but one twin will act it out more than the other. They sometimes hate to be thought of as the same, and may choose different parts of their personality to act out so they seem more different to each other than they actually are personality wise (but just a theory could be wrong). The Gender issue is the other twins own unique choice, they may have the same birth charts but they are different souls inside and we all choose to use our energy differently.

It was funny I once watched a show with two male twins who hated each other. Hated being the same. Would call the other one the trouble maker and would claim they were nothing alike. There was this constant war between them. They both came on the show the first time clean shaven with no facial hair. (You'll understand this point in the minute).

They were asked back to the show a couple of months later to see if they could resolve their differences, and they both came in with new mustaches they each had the idea to grow it so they would be different from their twin. It was funny to see their faces when they both saw each other and they were more alike then ever. :D It's funny how their more alike when their apart from each other and meet up again.

P.S And their have been twins who have both been anorexic, I can't remember their names but two died of an eating disorder.

[jagetoile]

deleted post.

[starlink]

Ah OK Flea, I thought you meant both because you wrote "where they....etc."
My mother was an identical twîn and she hated her sister also, not because of her per sé, but because she felt that, because being a twin, she could never be "a whole" person. She had psychological problems (depressions) and all (Moon conjunct Saturn in the 5th) because of that and her twin sister was always totally positive and happy. Most twins are born at least a couple of minutes after each other, I have even heard of one twin born 6 hours later than the first!
To see the difference in identical twins, (I mentioned this in another thread) you have to look not only at the signs their planets are in, but also at the decanates and dwads, especially of course of Ascendant-Desc. and MC-IC axis, and maybe other house cusps as well if they happen to be very near a new decanate or dwad.) There you see the differences between two same time born babies. After all they NEVER come out at exactly the same second and the Moon being fast, can move therefore into another part of a sign, changing it's background. Example: Moon at 9.30 degrees of Taurus in the first born can have a 10.50 degrees in the second decanate of Taurus, belonging to Virgo which gives this Moon a far more critical attitude and the first one probably being more laid back. So the aspects to the first Moon in Taurus could lead to more artistic qualities, the Moon with the Virgo background could be having health issues (in case of a square for instance).

[wilsontc]

star,

You said:
Moon at 9.30 degrees of Taurus in the first born can have a 10.50 degrees in the second decanate of Taurus, belonging to Virgo

How can a 9.30 degree Taurus Moon be at 10.50 degrees?

Wondering,

Tim

[starlink]

Sorry Tim, I mean that the Moon of the second twin could then be in Taurus.

[flea]

I am thinking the specific degree of the ascendant is then of importance/value whatever. I wonder what would be seen if you looked at the sabian symbols for the ascendant.

I also think Shining ray has a very valid point in that both twins are still dealing with the same energies, just from a different perspective, just becasueit is not happening to them. I do sense that at a soul level there is choice as to how one plays with the specific natal energies.


Love Light and Peace
Flea