Will the Greek under 19 football team win?

[Andonis]

The young Greek under 19 team won today and beat the excellent german team to move into the football finals. The score was 3-2. Will they win the final? That is the question.....

http://www.publicupload.com/files/Greece_footbal.gif (http://www.publicupload.com)

[Andonis]

The answer is easy....waitng for those who spotted it.

[joannski3]

WELL,,,,

I am trying this out because I live in Las Vegas and would like to start getting good at betting baseball games this summer, it wouldn't hurt to start, but this is a great example for me.

I always have trouble with the chart when saturn is the house ruler, and i have been using the classical planets only. My only request is that when i give you my answer, you tell me why i am right/wrong.

I used saturn for the ruler of the game because I put Greece in HOUSE 1. I notice greece is home team, and normally what i do is put home team in house 1, and away team in house 7. the actual game is ruled by house 5, and house 4 generally rules final outcome.

I don't know if you used uranus for the ruler, but again, i used ancient ruler for aquarius, which is saturn. strangely, I frequently make mistakes when here at home the ascendent is in capricorn, also ruled by home team, so i might have messed up here too, which is why i want feedback.

One more thing before i start, do you use time of game, or time you asked question? another thing i ponder about when i try and pick the games... However, I have about an 80 % success rate so far, which is pretty good i must say.

Aquarius on ASC. ruled by Saturn, a malefic. one bad thing so far.
Co Ruler of Greeks is Moon, and moon is in its fall, 28 deg scorpio. however, the last decanate of scorpio is cancer and ruled by the moon, and the moon falls in 28 deg. scorpio, so this might help out a little bit, despite the moon's fall.
Ruler of house 7, is the Germans, the opposing team. Ruler is Leo, considered by some a benefic, and venus is also the lesser benefic in the 7th house. saturn being in the 7th house is supposed to be an omen for team in first house because its not exhalted, saturn is detriment in leo. venus is also in detriment in virgo.
1st house contains north node, which is possible, and i'm trying not to use the trans saturn planets since weren't used by the classical astrologers. however, if i did use neptune, i read somewhere all the outer planets were malefics, so it wouldn't be good.
Venus, despite being in detriment is not a good outcome for team in house 1 when put in the 1st house, and basically the two significators for home team are not so hot, saturn, the greater malefic and moon, in fall, despite the hopeful decanate.
looked at aspects, and ths sun is separating from a trine from moon and although its not so close, applying a trine to jupiter, luck and chance.
venus is also applying a square to jupiter, the ruler of opposing team, it looks like a fight from the opposing team.
Game is ruled by house 5, gemini so its ruled by mercury in house 5, semi square saturn.... HOWEVER, if we use URANUS instead of saturn, gemini is trining uranus, which is good, the house 1 ruler is exact with the ruler of game...
I guess i would also use mars because mars is the ruler of ball games such as baseball, american football and european football/soccer according to rex bills... Uranus also makes a trine to mars which is in final outcome of game.

SO tell me, is this the chart of the game that the greeks already won? where they beat the germans? i don't understand.

My reply is that if uranus is used as ruler, home team in that chart won the game, because of aspects uranus makes with mars and gemini

and, because opposing team has venus in detriment in their house 7, also the greater malefic, and because the sun in leo is in a critical degree, their ruler in the 6th house.

HOWEVER, i think if SATURN is used as home team's ruler, it paints a different picture because saturn and moon are not well placed, and moon & saturn don't make any aspects with jupiter while the significator of away team, sun in leo DOES trine jupiter, which is good for them.

So can you explain what question i am answering and what ruler you use?

Thank you,

Joanna

[Andonis]

Hi Joanna,
the question refers to the NEXT game which is against either the french or Spaniards.
I see Greece as represented by Aries hence Mars is the ruler. For this there is an old post in here about it.
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/countries/greece.php
However Mars is in detriment in Taurus here and shows that they are weak. Notice I have used Placidus house system. Their opponent will be the 8th house ruler here Mercury. Mercury is in Terms in Cancer so they are in better shape than the Greeks. We could consider also Libra as their opponent (inside the 8th house) with ruler Venus in triplicity and again better shape than Mars. The thing to spot here is that the Moon is VOC. Which gives the straight answer 'nothing will come of it'. Which means they will loose. This is a competitive game and therefore it is a 5th house question. The ruler of gemini is Mercury which is the same ruler as the ruler of their opponent. This is another indication to me that their opponent is stronger and they should win.
Summarising...The main reasons ....moon VOC and Mars in detriment.

[joannski3]

OK,

see i do charts differently for sports. i use the ivy jacobson method, putting 1st house home team, 7th house away team, and 5th house the ruler of the game itself.

i look at placements of 1st hosue and 7th house significators, and placement of POF., if 5th house is in mutual reception with either 1st or 7th... so if i use the classic rulership, saturn, i come up with the SAME answer, greeks will lose.

Actually, i'm glad you posted this, it helped me a great deal. i was having problems predicting games with saturn rulers, and most of the time the team ruled by saturn loses.

its funny how two different systems come up with same answers? if a wager is placed on game, i also use 2nd house to see how the significators relate to my pocket book and 5th house... for example, if they lose the game, but in mutual reception, they may still cover the spread, example, lose, but by a certain amount of points, so i can still bet on the team and win.

Joanna

[Andonis]

Hi Joanna,
Even with your method, greeks will loose, their opponents will be very strong.

[joannski3]

Yes, I agree with you, the greeks will lose using my method.

what i did wrong was use uranus to symbolize greeks. i should use ancient rulers with horary, and saturn is poorly placed in opponent's house, giving them advantage...

[joannski3]

Yes, I agree with you, the greeks will lose using my method.

what i did wrong was use uranus to symbolize greeks. i should use ancient rulers with horary, and saturn is poorly placed in opponent's house, giving them advantage...

also forgot to mention the grand cross with the greek's planets, more problems!

[Andonis]

Normally in Horary one would use Saturn for Aquarius instead of Uranus used in Natal. But your thinking is good. I would fancy the Greeks but it looks the gods are not favouring them this time. We would know the outcome Friday I hear.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and let me know how successful you are in other bets of this kind. Cheers!

[Andonis]

OK now here is something to throw sand in the gear box.
I used Aries and Mars for Greece. However I have found another site that uses Virgo for greece. Not sure which is best to us.
Also, in cup finals there is normally not 'home' team. So in your method where you used ASC for Greece, why choose greece for ASC and not the other team?
Just a thought...

PS KEY to the interpretation is which country/team is the ASC. I read that one can use shirt colors for the team identification of the ASC /DSC Well in this case Greece has blue and white. I also read that the SUN has blue colors. If so then Greece is the DSC not the ASC. Hence the result may be the opposite of this reading.
With my method at least I cannot see how Greece can win. Well time will tell.

[joannski3]

i'll look at the chart on my day off and see if i can do any better after some more practice here with baseball :rolleyes:

[fensi88]

Andonis, is this event chart or chart upon your question?
If this is chart upon your question and if you support Greece, than Greece gets first house...
"The team the querent supports is given the first house, as an extension of the self, in the same way that the querent would say 'we won', despite not himself playing. The unspeakable ruffians his team are competing against are the open enemies: 7th house."-J.Frawley.
But, if this is event chart, than it is not matter who is who, because of VOC Moon and in that case favorite wins. If this is event chat, because of much fixity in this cahrt maybe winer will be known after penalties!

[Andonis]

Andonis, is this event chart or chart upon your question?
If this is chart upon your question and if you support Greece, than Greece gets first house...
"The team the querent supports is given the first house, as an extension of the self, in the same way that the querent would say 'we won', despite not himself playing. The unspeakable ruffians his team are competing against are the open enemies: 7th house."-J.Frawley.
But, if this is event chart, than it is not matter who is who, because of VOC Moon and in that case favorite wins. If this is event chat, because of much fixity in this cahrt maybe winer will be known after penalties!

Hi fensi,
This is a chart upon my question at the time I thought of it and place I enquired about the question....this is not an event chart on the place and time the game will take place.
So what is your verdict?

[Draco]

Hi Andonis.

This is basically an 'us vs. them' question, and your team are represented along with you in the ascendant, and the opponents are represented in the descendant.

However, if the data for the start of the match you refer to is available, a horary isn't necessary if there exists event data to refer to. If the suggested outcome of the event chart conflicts with that of the horary, I would go with the indications for the event.

[Andonis]

Hi Draco,

The event data are not known to me yet, certainly was not known at the time of question. Of course in due course they maybe available (the place and time where the match will take place).
But i think the Horary quesion as i put it, with Mars representing the greek team or with Saturn representing the greek team by the method of fensi and joannski give the same outcome anyway.
I just have not done eough of those to be confident but the website of fensi is certainly intersting to try and test the success rate.
I guess if two games take place in the same city same time (same event data) then we have the same outcome which does not make sense, unless there is a way out of this with fensi's method.

Cheers.

[Andonis]

I have now found out that the opponent is Spain in the final.
Spain’s color is usually yellow which fits the theory of Sun representing yellow. Also Saturn’s color is blue, fitting the picture of Greece’s team.
For Greece, Aquarius and Saturn in Leo being in detriment.
And for the Spaniards Leo and Sun in Leo being the ruler in his house. Very strong.
The Moon is VOC means for the question nothing would happen, which basically means the stronger team wins which is the team of the DSC which is Spain.
The fifth house represents the game the competition is Gemini with a weak Mercury in Cancer.

[Andonis]

Result: The Greek under 19 Team lost to the Spanish team yesterday (27th July 2007) . The result was 1-0 to the Spaniish.

Good analysis and thanks for the contributions.