New to the Forum

[janorama2001]

Hello - I am new to the Astrologer's community and have really enjoyed reading the posts here. I am an owner of a metaphysical bookstore and really enjoy astrology. I am hoping to gain depth in understanding by participating in this forum.

I am a Gem Sun H11/Leo Rising with a Virgo moon conj. Pluto in H2. I have been experiencing an excruciating opposition of my 28 Gem sun to Pluto across the 11/5 axis - ugh! My business partner and I had a falling out (Mars was conjunct Neptune the day it was dissolved in my 7th house)due to some meddling "spiritual" leaders, and I now have the business alone. Our family's all lived together under one roof and I found myself suddenly homeless - all of this happening while I was away housesitting for another friend. I've been accused of everything from lying, cheating, embezzling, and racketeering - none of which was true, but I apparantly triggered a major power struggle with some of the people I knew. Thankfully, this is now a thing of the past and with some help from wonderful friends and allies have regained my spirit and have been able to move forward with the business.

Does anybody on this forum discuss Mayan astrology? That is my new found love at the moment.
Janorama

[Lunar Pisces]

Hiya! You have my deepest sympathies with your Pluto struggles. I have Sun at 24 Gem in the 10th, with Pluto at 27 Virgo in the 1st and Moon at 20 Pisces in the 7th. Transits, especially with transiting Pluto, have not been kind to me lately, and I've gone through my own fair share of Plutonian nightmares the past few years too.

The upside, or so we're told, is Pluto is transformative and through its trails, it can greatly empower us and elevate our potential into beings ready to accept the next phase of our existence. With that transformation comes great wisdom, strength and serenity.

I can only hope. LOL.

[Draco]

Hi Janorama, welcome.

I am an owner of a metaphysical bookstore and really enjoy astrology.

That's interesting, I'd love to do that.

I'm not sure about Pluto as the light-bearing planets are my main field of interest, but that's not to say I ignore them completely, just put them on the back-burner, as I feel that Uranus, Neptune and Pluto come into there own in the astrology of nations, dynasties and collectives.

I don't know about Mayan astrology, and I'm not sure I've seen it being discussed. What information could you share with us about it.

See you around on the boards. :)

[freedomlover]

Welcome Janorama,

I've had to live through a similiar horror story - it's a toughie!
Glad to hear you have come out the other side. I can see the light at the end of my tunnel now, but still haven't been able to step out of the tunnel and into the light. Soon, though, coming soon.

Hope to see more of you on the forum!

[tsquare]

I am an owner of a metaphysical bookstore and really enjoy astrology.
Wow, sounds like heaven to me, I have wished for a long time just to make it to a Barns and Noble just to check out some new books, and see what there.
A metaphsical bookstore....that sounds even more interesting.
Glad you pulled it all back together again.
Well done!


Does anybody on this forum discuss Mayan astrology? That is my new found love at the moment.
Janorama

Sadly, not me, I have looked into it little but find it facinating with what little I have seen.

Welcome to the Forum!:)
Tsquare

[janorama2001]

Hi All and thank you for the warm welcome. To answer your question, Draco, Mayan astrology is surprisingly accurate considering the only planet they use is Venus. Their astrology is intricately tied to their calendar, which instead of being based on physical movements is based on the evolution of consciousness.

In Mayan astrology each day has a sign as well as a number. There are 13 intentions on the part of creation and 20 day signs. Thus, 260 discrete combinations of signs/numbers (13 x 20= 260). This is called the Tzolkin count. It was so important in the Maya culture to know what their creative impulse was for their day of birth that each child's name began with their day sign. For example, I was born a 2-Manik (Deer), so my name would have begun with Manik. In this way, no one person was without a "purpose" or creative intent for their life. So if you were born Ix - which is shaman - you were trained right from the beginning to take on that role.

Aside from the day sign and number, it was important to the Maya to know what Day or Night Lord was the ruler of the time period. The God/Goddess of the time period imbued the person with a deeper subconscious reason for being and acting in particular ways.

It was also important for them to know what the day at the beginning of the 13 day week was because that colored the entire time period with its energy. For example, if I was born 2-Manik (Deer) I would count back to the 1 day in that week. It happened to be 1-Cimi (Transformer), so people born in that 13-day week are imbued with the energy of transformation. So true in my case!! The need to destroy and rebirth is very strong for me. And, now I can understand why!

Venus was important as her position in the 584 day cycle showed how a person would behave in relationships. Venus' cycle includes a superior conjunction, morning star phase, inferior conjunction and evening star phase.

The really surprising thing to me was how accurate it was in describing my inner motivations and personality with little input from me, other than my date of birth. If there is interest in this topic, I would love to start a new thread to discuss it more. I'm also interested in seeing how Mayan and Western Astrology work together.

To find out what your Mayan day sign and number are go to www.mayanmajix.com/TZOLKIN/index.php (http://www.mayanmajix.com/TZOLKIN/index.php) - a more complete report is available as well.

[Draco]

Hi Jan.

Thankyou for this information. You have actually given me a spiritual gift, because when I entered my birth date on that page, all the hairs on my arms stood up on end when I realised what I was - and this information has given me a huge realisation that has slotted a big piece of the jigsaw into my spiritual puzzle. Thankyou so much. I'll explain.

Since the year 2000, I have been very much aware of a serpent guide that walks with me, she is called 'Shelle-lekye', crazy I know, but that's what comes, and this name is part of a tribal chant, of what tribe I have no idea. When I first had this serpent coming around me I had no idea why she was here or how I was meant to work with her.

Later, just about a year ago, I went to a psychic fair, and saw a woman depicting people's spirit guides in pastels, and when I got home, I felt inspired to draw. I picked up a pencil and drew what appered to be an old Native American wiseman. I was loathe to accept that I have an Indian guide, because I'm not so much an open minded skeptic and a closed minded believer. It's just I can't understand why these 'guides' always seem to be Native Americans, Egyptians or Chinamen, I mean, why would I not have a Celtic, Saxon or Viking guide, that I would have a genetic and geographical connection to? So I'm actually quite skeptical of this kind of thing.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, I was very skeptical of this guide, and found it difficult to entertain the possibility that I have a guide of this nature. I did realise that this guide is intimately associated with my serpent, because I know that this was his totem creature, and he carries a double pronged staff that is capped with the incisors of a serpent, and this is his 'medicine stick'.

Just last week, I went to my mediumship group, and the resident artist drew an image for me - of what appeared racially to be a Native American, and he had the same feathers in his hair as the guide I had drawn, and appeared to be the same age. Now this gave me goosebumps as well, because it made it harder for me not to accept that this indeed a guide of mine.

So recently, I have been thinking a lot of this guide of mine, and the serpent guide that walks with him and me. I find that I have been drawing serpents, rainbow serpents, serpents with wings, ourobouroses and basically going serpent guide mad. I really feel that the time is drawing close that I am to realise how I am to work with these guides. Things seem to be pricipitating fast for some reason. I can feel myself on the precipice of something big. I am coming to realise more and more about these guides faster and faster, and I know they are helping me with mediumship, and I am being pulled toward 'psychic' art by these guides.

Now, to get to the point, as it turns out, my Maya sign is the Serpent!

This is a big realisation for me, because I have realised, thanks to you, that my wiseman guide is not a Native American as such, but a Mayan, specifically - and I have always been most insistent that this serpentine guide of mine is not a snake, it is a serpent.

So I now realise that my guide is a Mayan, and now I know why the serpent walks with me - because it is indeed, according to the Maya - part of who and what I am, it is indeed my 'totem'.

The realisation that you have given me by providing that link has really blown me away and has brought me a realisation that is massive to me. So thankyou. By helping me to come to this discovery, you have acted as a spirtual guide of mine yourself Jan. :) I probably sound crazy, but I know the truth, and this is a big realisation for me. All at once I now know why my serpent walks with me, and that my 'Indian' guide is in fact a Mayan. I imagine that Serpent must have been his sign as well, that is why he comes with the serpent.

Obviously I am now going to have to find out as much as I possibly can about the Maya and their calendar.

Thankyou again Jan for the realisation that you have helped me to come to, that has made my day, and Shelle-lekye is doing somersaults all over the place - haha!

As a Serpent my name would begin with 'Chicchan'. I think I'll take that up as a sacred name for myself, for use only in spiritual work.

I would love to start a new thread to discuss it more.

Oh, please do, I'm sure many of us would love to discuss it.

Any other Serpents with a Galatic Tone of 12 out there?

[sskohli]

hi jan,
Really really interesting.
Where can we get any literature for this, you run a boookshop, any website or any recommendations?
I am a crocodile and a galactic tone of 13.i definitely more info regarding this.

sandeep

[Draco]

Well, now I don't understand.

According to this other site, it says nothing about 12 or Serpent for my birth date, it comes up with this:http://www.tortuga.com/eng/decode/findkin.php- or is this something different? I don't understand. I reckon learining about this is going to be complicated.

EDIT:

There appear to be contradictions. This site gives me a Yellow Lunar Sun:
http://www.tortuga.com/eng/decode/decodekin1.php and not a Serpent, but I am more inclined to believe the Serpent because of the way I relate to it so well spirirtually - so one of these sites is wrong, which is it?

[tsquare]

Hmmm....this stuff is interesting, on the second link I got some interesting stuff......
I think a thread on this would be a good idea.
I think the first link is just an indicator of the birth sign.
then there are cycles. Each year cycle having a different tone??

Those make me interested.

Initially I recieved this as first on the other link as destiny.

Destiny Stone
Red Chrystal Serpent
Life Force


And alot of other stuff as well there.

Cant say I understand the cycles, or the calander as well.

Not quite sure what date to use either, july 21, or july 22, depending upon when the sun rose.

This looks intersting.
There may be more depth to it I cant reach yet.
Fun.
=================
Tsquare

[Draco]

I think the first link is just an indicator of the birth sign.
then there are cycles.

I'm not sure it is, because in the second link you can be a Serpent as well, and yet it makes me a Sun.

Is anyone else experiencing contradictions in these two links, or can you explain what is going on?

www.mayanmajix.com/TZOLKIN/index.php (http://www.mayanmajix.com/TZOLKIN/index.php)

http://www.tortuga.com/eng/decode/findkin.php (http://www.tortuga.com/eng/decode/findkin.php)

I certainly have more faith in the link the first link that Jan provided originally, because as I said, it answered a huge spiritual question for me.

'Draco' even means 'serpent'!

[janorama2001]

Hi Everyone,

The correct sign is found at www.mayanmajix.com (http://www.mayanmajix.com) site. The tortuga.com site is based on the 13 Moon calendar that has nothing to do with the Maya calendar. It only gained in popularity because one of its proponents was Jose Arguelles who is a noted Maya researcher. He has taken a lot of heat from his peers for the 13 Moon calendar as it is very clear that the Maya did not use any physical body (other than Venus) in their calendar or astrology.

Here are some other sites and books for your reading pleasure:

www.calleman.com (http://www.calleman.com)
www.mayanmajix.com (http://www.mayanmajix.com)
www.mayan-calendar-code.com (http://www.mayan-calendar-code.com)
www.mayaportal.lucita.net (http://www.mayaportal.lucita.net)

Books:

The Mayan Calendar by Carl Johan Calleman
The Mayan Calendar and the Transformation of Consciousness by Calleman
Mayan Astrology by Bruce Scofield
The Mayan Factor by Jose Arguelles

These sources can give you some valuable insight and background information into how the calendar and astrology work together. There is also a great DVD for sale on the MayanMajix site that I highly recommend - it answers a lot of the calendar questions people have.

Draco - I'm so happy that I was inadvertantly helpful to you! The fact that you are Chicchan seems appropriate! The number 12 attached to that day sign tells me that you are seeking understanding of what all this means and how it fits in with your life and purpose. On the Mayan Majix site you can order a $10 full Maya reading that is well worth it! It can put more of the pieces together for you.

Happy reading...
Janorama

[janorama2001]

Really interesting combination for you sskholi! 13 is the end number - or Ascension and Crocodile (Imix) is the first day sign or Beginnings. You are the beginning and the end. Sounds like you are entering in to a new cycle or a higher vibratory level with this lifetime. It's not clear if they Maya had a belief in reincarnation or not - but I bet they would have been very interested in someone with this configuration.

[janorama2001]

Hi T-Square,
The Mayan calendar/astrology is heavily into cycles. The best link to get your true sign is going to be www.mayanmajix.com/TZOLKIN/index.php/ (http://www.mayanmajix.com/TZOLKIN/index.php/). The other site is based on a non-Mayan calendar. And, you're right - it is very interesting!!!

Janorama

[tsquare]

Hmmmm....
Ive been looking these two links over and I think I may have the birthday part figured out.

On the first link I get.
Dog, galactic tone 9

On the second ling I get
Red Crystal serpent
with a seal code number of 5
It looks like the galactic tone and the seal code number may be two different things alltogether.

Any how I go to the extended date decoder, enter the date, and hit find, and this is what comes up on the second link.
--------------------------------------
file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/OWNER%7E1.DOL/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-4.jpgGreetings! You are a Red Crystal Serpent!

The next few pages will help you to understand what that means.
In the 13 Moon Calendar there are 20 seals and 13 tones. Since you are a Serpent your seal code number is 5. Everyone is coded by one of these 20 seals. They are as follows:

http://www.tortuga.com/eng/decode/decodekin/solarseals_small.jpg

file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/OWNER%7E1.DOL/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-5.jpg
-------------------------------
Ok, 20 seals, 13 tones, I supose galactic tones,
mooving on clicking next.
-------------------------------------

Now that you know what seal you are you need to learn a little about Galactic Notation. Remember you are a Serpent, which is seal number 5.

http://www.tortuga.com/eng/decode/galactic/glyph5.gif

In Galactic Notation, Serpent is written with 1 bars and 0 dots. Find your seal below, the Serpent, to see what its Galactic Notation looks like.

http://www.tortuga.com/eng/decode/decodekin/galacticnotation.gif

---------------------------------------
Then notation is interesting, looks a little like Morse code for the symbols making them into groups. Clicking next.
---------------------------------------
Each person is in one of five different Earth Families according to the Seal code number. The Seal code numbers break down into five mathematical sets. Each set is determined by the number of dots it contains. Remember you are a Red Serpent which is Seal code number 5. http://www.tortuga.com/eng/decode/galactic/glyph5.gif

In Galactic Notation 5 is written with 1 bars and 0 dots.

This means you are in the no dot, or bar family.
http://www.tortuga.com/eng/decode/family/family0.gif
----------------------------------------------------------
ok, they have comparted the 20 Seals it 5 families of 4 seals each.
Next.

------------------------
For each of the 20 Seals there are 13 Tones. You are a Red Crystal Serpent.
The Red Serpent is Seal code number 5.
Crystal refers to the Tone, which is number 12.
Here are the 13 Tones.
http://www.tortuga.com/eng/decode/decodekin/wavespell.jpg

------------------------------------------------------- (http://www.tortuga.com/eng/cgi-bin/FINDKIN4.PL?year=$a&kin=$number&month=$m&seal=$seal&tone=$tone&day=$d)
Ok so the seals some how lay over this paterm on the galactic tone wheel of sorts.
-------------------------------------
Next

----------------------------

http://www.tortuga.com/eng/decode/destiny/destiny0.jpg
Each of us progress through a 52-year Destiny Path which is divided into 4 distinct color cycles, or Wavespells, of 13 years. Knowing where you are in your destiny path can help you see distinct cycles in your life.
Remember, you are Red Crystal Serpent. The Crystal tone is the 12th tone.
Find the Red Serpent Seal http://www.tortuga.com/eng/decode/sealstones/glyph5.gif above in the 12th position. This is your Destiny Kin, your face before you had a face.
From your Destiny Kin, a 52-year destiny path spirals forth. Starting at 0 years old, when you were born, you can follow the numbers from that position to where you are now. Your first birthday would have been 13 Dog. When you were two you would have been 1 Eagle, then 2 Sun, etc. When you reach a 13 tone that is the end of that 13 year cycle. Your next year is a jump to the adjacent Wavespell in a counterclockwise direction.
To truly see how all this works you may need to print this page and study it a while! Notice you will have the same tone as your Destiny Kin during your 13th, 26th, 39th, and 52nd birthdays. You will have the same Seal during the 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, etc. Through the rotation of the Seals and Tone you may look at and experience your life in four-year and thirteen-year cycles.
http://www.tortuga.com/eng/decode/destinyfamily/family0.gif

As each of us change through the years of our lives we take on different personas. Notice as you progress through the 52 year cycle that the four seals that you pass through: Sun, Serpent, Dog, Eagle, are the four seals of your Earth Family.


-----------------------------------
Ok, this is where it begins to get interesting, The destiny kin is the face before you had a face, and the birth sign is something different, it starts at the time you were born and then year two, you moove onto another sign, as a cycle. It says that my birth sign was 13 dog, therefor matching up with the sun sign on the first link. yet the first link had a galatic tone number of 9.
Damnit.
--------------------------
Next
-----------------------------------
Now that you know your tone and seal, you can look at your Oracle.























http://www.tortuga.com/eng/decode/oracle/guidekin.gif











http://www.tortuga.com/eng/decode/sealstones/glyph17.gif






















http://www.tortuga.com/eng/decode/oracle/analogkin.gif

http://www.tortuga.com/eng/decode/oracle/antipodekin.gif
http://www.tortuga.com/eng/decode/oracle/destinykin.gif








http://www.tortuga.com/eng/decode/sealstones/glyph5.gif




http://www.tortuga.com/eng/decode/sealstones/glyph14.gif


http://www.tortuga.com/eng/decode/sealstones/glyph15.gif
















http://www.tortuga.com/eng/decode/oracle/occultkin.gif














http://www.tortuga.com/eng/decode/sealstones/glyph16.gif





http://www.tortuga.com/eng/cgi-bin/templates/transparent.gif http://www.tortuga.com/eng/cgi-bin/templates/transparent.gif http://www.tortuga.com/eng/cgi-bin/templates/transparent.gif http://www.tortuga.com/eng/cgi-bin/templates/transparent.gif http://www.tortuga.com/eng/cgi-bin/templates/transparent.gif http://www.tortuga.com/eng/cgi-bin/templates/transparent.gif http://www.tortuga.com/eng/cgi-bin/templates/transparent.gif http://www.tortuga.com/eng/cgi-bin/templates/transparent.gif http://www.tortuga.com/eng/cgi-bin/templates/transparent.gif http://www.tortuga.com/eng/cgi-bin/templates/transparent.gif http://www.tortuga.com/eng/cgi-bin/templates/transparent.gif http://www.tortuga.com/eng/cgi-bin/templates/transparent.gif http://www.tortuga.com/eng/cgi-bin/templates/transparent.gif http://www.tortuga.com/eng/cgi-bin/templates/transparent.gif http://www.tortuga.com/eng/cgi-bin/templates/transparent.gif http://www.tortuga.com/eng/cgi-bin/templates/transparent.gif http://www.tortuga.com/eng/cgi-bin/templates/transparent.gif http://www.tortuga.com/eng/cgi-bin/templates/transparent.gif

Destiny Kin. Basis of life destiny:
http://www.tortuga.com/eng/decode/codespell/glyph5.gif

Analog Kin. Like-minded power:
http://www.tortuga.com/eng/decode/codespell/glyph14.gif

Antipode Kin. Challenge power:
http://www.tortuga.com/eng/decode/codespell/glyph15.gif

Occult Kin. Hidden power of 7, the unexpected:
http://www.tortuga.com/eng/decode/codespell/glyph16.gif

Guide Kin. Fifth force outcome power:
http://www.tortuga.com/eng/decode/codespell/glyph17.gif


-------------------------------
Hmmm.....looks like an oracle of sorts, but I dont understand how it ties in yet.

-------------------------------
next
- You are a Crystal Serpent. Below is a poem made from combining your Tone Crystal and your Seal Serpent.

http://www.tortuga.com/eng/decode/sealstones/tone12.gif
http://www.tortuga.com/eng/decode/sealstones/glyph5.gif

Red Crystal Serpent
I Dedicate in order to Survive
Universalizing Instinct
I seal the Store of Life Force
With the Crystal tone of Cooperation
I am guided by the power of Navigation



There are many things you can learn by looking at this information. Think about it. You can also go back and find the Kin for your friends and family. Follow the calendar day-by-day and things will slowly become more clear. You will get out of it only what you put into it.

---------------------------------------------


And thats all of it, I was hoping there was more on the oracle, but anyhow it did show there were cycles and another layer to this other then just birth sun signs, still dont get it all, but this destiny jin thing still looks intersting.


And For me personally, I still do not know if I am using the right birthdate for myself, Have to adjust for sunrise to fit into the mayan callander. the above is just for example showing that the birth dates as far as Dog, did match up, yet the galactiv tones didnt, the extra was just a destiny kin of sorts, a face before a face, before you were born.
Still dont know how that would work.



so there is more to this, and it seem there is cycles to the mayan calander, but this is ny first step into the Mayan Calander,

I hope someone can clear this up as well.


Draco, I wouldn't invalidate what you have found,

but I have a question,

Did the galactic tone match up for you as well on the first link, or did it seem a little off.
By the second link I believe it still says that you are a Serpent, just that it is your Birth Seal instead of Destiny Kin....whatever destiny kin is. The destiny kin thing is confusing for me still, and I really dont know if I have the right date of birth for myself, so.....its hard for me to test it out really.


But in any fassion dont invalidate the discovery you have made, it sounds interesting, I have had run ins with serpents as well, Mainly durring dream state deep meditations, or else the shadow aspect of one being there off and on durring waking, I have doodles of them all over in old notebooks of mine. Yet I tend to invalidate its existence, sort of on automatic, before I get a chance to play around. Iv'e been curious as to what and who they are for a while now.

---------------------------------------
Tsquare








(http://www.tortuga.com/eng/cgi-bin/FINDKIN4.PL?year=$a&kin=$number&month=$m&seal=$seal&tone=$tone&day=$d)

file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/OWNER%7E1.DOL/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-6.jpgfile:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/OWNER%7E1.DOL/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-7.jpg

[tsquare]

Opps janorama2001, didnt see you there, now I have to go back and read what you recently posted.

[sskohli]

Cool Jan
Thanks that sounds interesting. Do you think the $10 reading would be worth it?

Thanks
Sandeep

[johnmike59]

Hello janorama! This is a fantastic site -- lots of interesting and intelligent posts and VERY nice people. Like you, I am here to learn as well!

I think there might be a quiz in short order -- so a warm welcome and, perhaps, a heads up!

[Draco]

The correct sign is found at www.mayanmajix.com (http://www.mayanmajix.com/) site. The tortuga.com site is based on the 13 Moon calendar that has nothing to do with the Maya calendar. It only gained in popularity because one of its proponents was Jose Arguelles who is a noted Maya researcher. He has taken a lot of heat from his peers for the 13 Moon calendar as it is very clear that the Maya did not use any physical body (other than Venus) in their calendar or astrology.

Thankyou again Jan. I suspected that there was something dubious about the other link. I knew that the Serpent had to be right for me.

Thanks also for the links and book titles.

Draco - I'm so happy that I was inadvertantly helpful to you! The fact that you are Chicchan seems appropriate! The number 12 attached to that day sign tells me that you are seeking understanding of what all this means and how it fits in with your life and purpose. On the Mayan Majix site you can order a $10 full Maya reading that is well worth it! It can put more of the pieces together for you.

You certainly was helpful. I think it would be well worth it to buy a report, as I was really pretty stunned at how significant I found my being a Serpent is, and the spiritual puzzle that it has solved for me.

Did the galactic tone match up for you as well on the first link, or did it seem a little off.
By the second link I believe it still says that you are a Serpent, just that it is your Birth Seal instead of Destiny Kin....whatever destiny kin is. The destiny kin thing is confusing for me still, and I really dont know if I have the right date of birth for myself, so.....its hard for me to test it out really.


I'm not as sure about the Galatic Tone number of 12, but I am certain of the significance of the Serpent, and it's so weird as to the questions it has answered for me at this time. Answers I've been seeking for a while.

The other link based on the thirteen Moon calendar, makes me a Yellow Lunar Sun. Now the Sun/Moon thing is most intriguing because I have been drawing a figure eight ourobouros, with a Sun in the upper loop and a Moon in the bottom - and now I know why. Out of my serpent sketches this is the one I want to develop into a nice picture, and now I want to do so even more.

I am a bit concerned though that the thirteen Moon calendar isn't based on a proper Maya way, and it goes on about stuff like 'electric' which doesn't sound very Mayan to me. I do wonder what other possible translations there were for all these words.

Thankyou for going to the trouble to try to explain the 13 Moon link for us. :)

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

I have a question concerning mine. The site says:

For the Maya, the Day begins at Sun Rise. If you were born BEFORE sunrise
use the previous day to determine your Mayan Sun Sign and Tone.


I was born at 10:13pm on August 1st. Does this mean I still input August 1st or do I put in July 31st? Since I wasn't born after midnight, I think it's supposed to be the August 1st date, but I would like clarification on this before I attach myself to either 1/Wisdom or 2/Earth.

[Draco]

Hi Kaoiusei.

As I already told you, what does arbitrary clock-time, which does not even represent astrological midnight, have to do with it?

You use the previous date because you were born during the night, and as the day is measured from dawn to dawn, then the night is a part of that day encompassed within the dawn to dawn period, so you use the prior dawn for nocturnal births.

To put it another way: you were born at night, the next day does not begin until dawn following - the prior day began at the dawn previous - in which the night you were born within was encompassed.

[Draco]

Actually I'm not so sure now. Could someone clarify this once and for all?

[sskohli]

I have a question concerning mine. The site says:



I was born at 10:13pm on August 1st. Does this mean I still input August 1st or do I put in July 31st? Since I wasn't born after midnight, I think it's supposed to be the August 1st date, but I would like clarification on this before I attach myself to either 1/Wisdom or 2/Earth.
Hi kaio,
This is valid in vedic astrology as well, a day is from sunrise to sunrise not from 12 midnight
so it means that if you were born say after 12 midnight on 1st aug, then u're birthday would still be 1st aug and not 2nd aug as per western time.
I think it would last upto say 5-5:30 am when the sun rises, so ppl who are born on 2nd aug, before 5:30 (arbitrary, to be accurate you have t check the sunrise on that day), would still be considered to be 1st aug.

thanks
sandeep

[tsquare]

Couldn't we tell somehow from where the sun is in location to the asendent.
The Ascendent is the exact degree of the Eastern Horizon at the time of birth.
so......12H is the house of the rising sun. and then it mooves up to noon on the MC.....
in an equal house system I believe anyhow...mabie.....Im not very good at drawing charts....Ive never drawn a chart, house systems are out of my league.
Im missing some basics, I almost cant believe I dont know this.

I have 6:52 AM for a birth time, and my sun ends up right in the 12H.

Couldn't we use the Natal Chart to figure this out somehow.


Dumbfounded and dont mind being put strait,
Tsquare

[sskohli]

Couldn't we tell somehow from where the sun is in location to the asendent.
The Ascendent is the exact degree of the Eastern Horizon at the time of birth.
so......12H is the house of the rising sun. and then it mooves up to noon on the MC.....
in an equal house system I believe anyhow...mabie.....Im not very good at drawing charts....Ive never drawn a chart, house systems are out of my league.
Im missing some basics, I almost cant believe I dont know this.

I have 6:52 AM for a birth time, and my sun ends up right in the 12H.

Couldn't we use the Natal Chart to figure this out somehow.


Dumbfounded and dont mind being put strait,
Tsquare
Hi Tsquare,
You can use that, but then it depends does your system use house mid or house start.
so meaning if ure house system uses a house mid, then when the sun enters the 12H, means sun rise if not, if it reaches the mid of 12H would it be sunrise.
6:52 am definitely means that sun has risen.

sandeep

[Virinchi]

interesting !
house mids and ends :)

[sskohli]

interesting !
house mids and ends :)
Hi Virinchi,
I was explaining about vedic astro, don't know much about western astrology. There some systems adopt a house mid as a house start whereas others use a house start.
For example when would you call a sunrise, when a sun's disc has shown or when half of the disc is seen.
some see, half if it as sun rise, some see it when the start of the disc is visible.

thanks
sandeep

[tsquare]

I use Placidus,
Which house system would work for this task?
Im weak with house systens, and it looks like I'll have to get my hands dirty soon digging into it all. And it also looks like I will need a big shovel.

I ran into this sight.
http://www.geocities.com/astrologyhouses/housesystems.htm

And thought this was humorous, also I motioned to myself, SLOW DOWN TSQUARE, there's alot there.

From this link I posted.
-------------------------------
Which System should you Use?: Who knows? It is rumored that one particular national meeting of astrologers descended into a fist-fight trying to resolve this question!
-------------------------------

(Laugh) Looks like wild teritory! Tsquare========================================

[sskohli]

I use Placidus,
Which house system would work for this task?
Im weak with house systens, and it looks like I'll have to get my hands dirty soon digging into it all. And it also looks like I will need a big shovel.

I ran into this sight.
http://www.geocities.com/astrologyhouses/housesystems.htm

And thought this was humorous, also I motioned to myself, SLOW DOWN TSQUARE, there's alot there.

From this link I posted.
-------------------------------
Which System should you Use?: Who knows? It is rumored that one particular national meeting of astrologers descended into a fist-fight trying to resolve this question!
-------------------------------

(Laugh) Looks like wild teritory! Tsquare========================================
Hi TS,
Yes this has been a long debate over which system to use. Placidus is used by default, by astro.com. I am using their ephemeris, in it also they have an option whether to use house mid or house start, so i am not sure which they are using internally.
But if you are getting into all this to get sunrise, i think, their ephemeris have an option which tells you what time did the sunrise on a particular day. and most vedic ephimeris tell you this. because in vedic ephemeris if the next day the nakshatra (small subdivision of ascendant or constellation) has not changed then the day is the previous day.
So don't get too much into the technicalities, i think 6:25 am would be safely called after sunrise. :)

sandeep

[Virinchi]

thats again an interesting discussion

if your ascendant falls at 15degrees in some sign, indians take that as bhava madhya(mid) and assume that asendant has spread -15deg to +15deg to that point and derive chalit (chaleet)

but in k.p (ever since i've been using this it gave me better results) krishnamurti supports western method(placidus) and assumes asendant started at 15 degrees and will extend upto roughly 30deg and all planets in this area fall into asc.
i guess this is how ur software works too

[janorama2001]

We start the new day at midnight, but the Maya started at sunrise of each day. So, if you were born at 10:13 p.m. of Aug. 1 your Maya birthdate is still August 1. I know it gets a little confusing, but that is because we are so stuck on the Gregorian form of time. You could also input July 31st just to see how it fits. I would bet that you'll find that the Aug. 1 day sign fits better.

Janorama

[janorama2001]

It's really very simple - but not to the way we normally think in terms of our Gregorian calendar system.

The Maya began their day at sunrise and spent at least the early hours of the day in meditation over the energy of that day. They were in the "flow" of creation and the evolution of consciousness. As far as we are concerned, what time was the sunrise in your hometown? If you were born before that time, then use the previous day's date. If you were born after that time, then use your actual birthdate.

Let's say sunrise was at 6:30 a.m. and you were born at 5:30 a.m. on Sept. 25. You would actually use September 24 as your birthday in the Maya system because you were born before the sunrise. If however you were born at 6:35 a.m., then you would use the date Sept. 25. However, there is some "cuspiness" (is that a word:) here and you might actually pull a report for both days because you may display characteristics of both signs just as in Western astrology. But, you would definitely be called by the day sign you were actually born in.

I hope that helps - I know it's confusing and I still get confused myself. You really have to pull yourself out of our definition of time and drift in to theirs.

And, yes it is absolutely worth the $10 to get a Mayan astrology reading. It is about 15 pages or so of background info and specific info for you. The book by Bruce Scofield that I posted last night is also extremely helpful and he even gives a try at synthesizing Maya and Western astrology in Bill Clinton's chart. Very interesting.

Bruce Scofield's website is www.onereed.com (http://www.onereed.com). There is some useful information there as well.

On Calleman's site there are plenty of articles that explain why the 13 moon or tortuga.com calendar isn't the Maya calendar. There is also a lady name Aluna Joy Ya'Xin that does Maya astrology, but she is using the wrong calendar as well. There are always discrepancies between the two because the count of days is totally different. The Mayan Majix people actually confirmed their count with the Mayan elders in Guatamala. I trust them!

Happy researching....
Janorama

[tsquare]

Well here's something fun.
The time the sun rose at specific locations at specific times.


http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/RS_OneDay.html

Sunrise the day I was born was 5:19AM.
Lots of fun little computers in this link if you click on that picture in the top left corner.



Still curious about a few things, but its time for some sleep.
This mid sign thing has me curious.
=========================================
Thanks everyone,
Tsquare

[sskohli]

Still curious about a few things, but its time for some sleep.
This mid sign thing has me curious.


Hey TS,
I just downloaded a book on house systems, if you pm me your email address, i will forward it to you.

sandeep

[Draco]

Hi Jan.

Thanks for clearing up the confusion over the sunrise issue.

Thanks also for pointing out about the 13 Moon calendar. I'm only interested in the proper Maya calendar that they would have used for the purposes of divination, spiritual orientation and the life path of the individual - and this is the Tzolkin, based upon the 13 day Trecana, and the 20 day cycle of symbols.

I think that people want to drag all the other calendars into the mix as well, for titillation, but if these other calendars were used for agricultural or economic purposes etc. and were not what the Maya intended for personal astrological, spiritual purposes, than what is the point? Who are we to argue.

I'm sticking to the Tzolkin. I trust your information. I think that this is a complicated enough subject as it is without sorting the wheat from the chaff.

Thanks for straightening these things out.

[sskohli]

Really interesting combination for you sskholi! 13 is the end number - or Ascension and Crocodile (Imix) is the first day sign or Beginnings. You are the beginning and the end. Sounds like you are entering in to a new cycle or a higher vibratory level with this lifetime. It's not clear if they Maya had a belief in reincarnation or not - but I bet they would have been very interested in someone with this configuration.
Hi Jan,
I got my reading done. The character and all was great.
But it didn't say anything about the spiritual/sole purpose in life.
Is there any literature regarding this, like what you said when you came to know my tone was 13?

sandeep

[janorama2001]

I think some authors are hesitant to put into words the exact nature of one's destiny. But, from the information you glean from the description of your day sign and the tone of that day possibilities appear. For example, any one with crocodile energy is fiercely protective - particulary of their offspring or anyone(s) they feel are the underdog and come under their protection. That makes me think of child advocates or environmentalists (as Mother Earth is in definite need of protection), and there are a host of other potential career choices out there for this type of person. Now, the 13 in that mix requires you to take a sort of "moral high road" - meaning that whatever protection you offer through those primal instincts of yours must be in alignment with a higher purpose. For example, warrior energy used in a more peaceful way. A Ghandi sort of warrior.

There is a book called, "Mayan Astrology" by Bruce Scofield that may be useful for you. But, I would take the information from my reading and I would sit in meditation with it and think along the lines of the creative impulses happening on Earth at the moment. Then I would ask your higher self (or whatever your belief system allows) what your specific part is in this lifetime. Knowing what you now know about yourself - you may just come up with some interesting ideas.

13-Imix would also make you extremely capable of dealing with negative emotions, but be aware that you would require "down" time from that barragement. So be sure that you get enough rest and relaxation and inner time for yourself.

[janorama2001]

And, as a matter of interest to everyone - Today (7-22-07 where I live) is 1-Imix or the first day of a new round in the Tzolkin count! So, if things were in a state of "ending" yesterday, today is a whole new opportunity!

Happy Tzolkin!

[tsquare]

And, as a matter of interest to everyone - Today (7-22-07 where I live) is 1-Imix or the first day of a new round in the Tzolkin count! So, if things were in a state of "ending" yesterday, today is a whole new opportunity!

Happy Tzolkin!

Well that's interesting, and it's my birthday today as well. Thats kind of neat.
Thanks for the info so far.
Tsquare

[janorama2001]

Happy Birthday TSquare!! And, this should be an auspicious year for you!
Janorama

[sskohli]

Hi ts,
Happy Bday.
1st day is the first day of light, so cool to have umm a 'light'ful year ahead.

Hi Jan,
You said
But, I would take the information from my reading and I would sit in meditation with it and think along the lines of the creative impulses happening on Earth at the moment. Then I would ask your higher self (or whatever your belief system allows) what your specific part is in this lifetime. Knowing what you now know about yourself - you may just come up with some interesting ideas.
I am not a humanitarian at all. I think the best i would've done is donate some money in charity. I don't know anything about meditation and how to sit with it and ask my higher self, that's a new thing to me. Any pointers in that direction also?

Thanks very much
sandeep

[violetflame]

Hi,
I am a Sag sun23, Sag rising 12,Sag mer 11 & Aqu moon 24. Yes Pluto has been knocking me around for some time now:59: and currently is retrograding back and forth between my Sag saturn 27 and Cap ven 1. I have been a practicing astrologer for approx. 6 years.

Happy I found this forum! ....I have lots to say......