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Venuslure
06-09-2007, 05:01 AM
Hello, I was wanting to know if anyone could tell me more about Venus/Pluto contacts in synastry and composite chart? The reason I ask is because I have Venus sextile Pluto and Pluto trine Venus in synastry with someone, and Venus square Pluto in the composite chart. Does anyone else have this going on with someone you know, if so how do you handle it or walk away from it?:confused:

lillyjgc
06-09-2007, 08:36 AM
Hi there. My last relationship: He had venus opp. pluto (natally).I have no aspect between venus and pluto natally.But in the synastry, my venus was square his pluto and my pluto was opposite his venus. In the composite chart there was no aspect between venus and pluto.It ended badly and was very hard for both parties to move on....this ended up being geographic causing big upheavals for both.Pluto brings up deep repressed love issues in its opposition with venus, but again the sign placements are also important.In synastry, it is good to see a sextile of venus/pluto- a trine is ideal, but in the charts of 20 couples I studied who broke up after 20 years there were a lot who had pluto/venus square in their composite...lillyjgc

Venuslure
06-09-2007, 08:52 PM
Yeah, I can't stop thinking of this guy, I think I am feeling it more though. I always thought intense feelings would be mutual since the double whammy, and a Venus square Pluto in the composite...

lillyjgc
06-10-2007, 11:05 AM
venus square pluto seems to create an intensity-a strong focus on love and sex..it's not hard to see how obsessive love is a product of plutonian aspects.As to it being one sided- I think my ex would disagree- we both suffered immensely ("can't live with, can't live without") but my feeling is his natal pluto-venus opposition was at the basis of most of our problems- it took a few years to get over it though (him too) and neither of us has had a serious relationship since.....lillyjgc

unukalhai
06-24-2007, 09:38 PM
Yikes, Ray, good luck with the house!

I'll take a stab at Venus/Pluto relationships, as I'm undergoing a Pluto conjunct Venus transit which happens to be exact today, and I've been considering this pairing for a while now, as Pluto works his ways on my Venus.

Venus/Pluto in dynamic aspect can generate a sort of obsessive/compulsive partnership, one where the relationship creates situations and circumstances that compel us to dive into ourselves and understand just why we're so obsessive about this other person. Sometimes we'll even wonder just why we're so attracted to the other, and not even have a sound logical explanation to give ourselves, aside from a sort of feeling of entering the event horizon of a massive black hole. And that black hole is playing such beautiful music, or so it sounds through the power of Venus's attractive principle, that we just cant help but get sucked in. There's a bit of karma to all this, of course, and Venus/Pluto pairings often indicate the destination is personal transformation. Sometimes it only really makes sense in hindsight, after Pluto's power has subsided (and that's not quickly, either), or we've transformed enough that we need to move on.

There can be issues of trust, jealousy, and honesty that make themselves loud and clear at times. It becomes hard, and at times near dangerous, to attempt to hide anything from the other or ourselves regarding the relationship. They either pick up on the half-truths by their intuition or use investigative means (covert or overt) to get to the bottom of things. Just as Pluto deals with investigations and revealing all that is hidden, so does the Venus/Pluto relationship function. Depth is a keyword in all it's meanings to these relationships, from psychological right down to the perversion of that word.

The soft aspects are more favorable, but the hard aspects can be much more rewarding if they are applied in positive manners. These Venus/Pluto relationships have the potential for deep transformations to take place, and for either or both parties to overcome difficult relationship issues. Pluto's influence purifies by exposing all that is maligned in anything it touches. As the relationship can take on some darker undercurrents, the natives get a chance to face parts of themselves they may not otherwise face without a Plutonian dose of compulsion. This can create tensions and highlight personal lackings, which can have a negative impact, but if both parties are open and honestly communicate the experience, and are mutually supportive, this can actually act to deepen the bond between the two in a major manner. It all depends how the natives handle the energy, whether they let it remain an damed up undercurrent where it becomes corrosive or if they actively engage the process. If one party in the relationship doesn't feel comfortable enough with the other to open up these repressed psychological patterns, which are hard enough to face in oneself let alone share them with another, the basis forms for the more corrosive expression of this energy. This is often how Venus/Pluto relationships end; one faces a Plutonian challenge of purification which is withheld from the other, which leads to an array of blockages and a notable change in the energy exchange between the individuals. Both parties feel it, things start seeming "off" and the decline begins. In relationships exhibiting Venus/Pluto energy as a primary factor, one should always remember nomatter how dark and difficult facing something is, it's better to get it off your chest than to let it fester. The fixed emotional (water) nature of Pluto makes this a serious danger. Sometimes this means revealing to your partner some things about your inner self you may rather keep hidden, but hey, that's a huge theme of Pluto: facing your darkness. By bringing these things up to the surface, the process of purification can begin in a non-corrosive manner; as the light shines upon the darkness it is transcended and resolved. In the same manner, it is important for both parties in a strong Venus/Pluto bond to avoid passing any form of judgment on the other, even if the other was to reveal a particularly distasteful part of themselves. It's important to promote acceptance and dissolution of personal guilt; guilt is the enemy of successful transcendence. One should remember their own dark side before passing judgment on anyone else; we've all got one, and the thought that any of us are angels is but a fallacy... And a dangerous one at that!

Plain and simple, the sexual potential in Venus/Pluto relationships is high; it serves as an intensive means of bonding and interpersonal connection on a soul level. Sex is more than something physical under these influences. Sex on a physical level is more of the Mars/Pluto domain, where it may be better described by the common four letter expletive, although that is sometimes what people enjoy more. All depends on the natal makeup. Regardless, Venus/Pluto serves to focus the sex act on the passive attractive ("togetherness") principle of Venus rather than the active aggressive ("alpha male") principle of Mars. This can work as a positive or negative thing depending on the desires of the people involved... But either way sexual attraction runs strong.

Overall, this pairing can be very positive if handled constructively. Much to the disagreement of some, Venus and Pluto are actually pretty good friends. How couldn't a dirty guy like Pluto be magnetized to sensual Venus? And if Venus was all about some Mars, she'd go nuts at Pluto's stamina and sheer power, making the prowess of Mars seem petty. Besides, any lady who formed from a severed phallus is sure to have an x-rated side... a very happily accepted thing in Pluto's underworld. Some say Venus is too frail for Pluto, but I disagree. Bil Tierney in his book on Pluto (in the section describing Venus from a Plutonian perspective) used the words "fiesty" and "cocksure" to describe Venus based on her mythological history, and I think he's right on target. The concept of Venus being a snow white in glass slippers is a concoction of too many Disney animations and not enough reality. Venus may be impressionable, but she's not weak. Earth Venus is represented by the bull, an extremely strong creature, and her air side by the scales, representing the triumph of fair justice and the ultimate power of balance. Neither side is by any means weak.

Girl_from_Jupiter
06-25-2007, 05:20 PM
I have a Venus/Pluto double whammy with my special guy. My Venus conjuncts his Pluto and his Venus squares my Pluto. Neither one of us has a Venus/Pluto contact natally. Contacts between Venus and Pluto in synastry are not only about sexual attraction. Like in my case, the sexual attraction is intense, no doubt about that. But it goes deeper than just pure lust. We simply can't live with or without each other. The feelings run so deep. It is very hard to understand for other people why we feel about each other the way we do. We just can't help it. It feels like we are destined to work through our problems together. Long story short, Venus/Pluto contacts definitely create a very strong bond between two people, especially when the contact is a double whammy.

aquacan
06-26-2007, 01:55 PM
Wow great interpretation Unukalhai. Explains really well the interaction I had with a past boyfriend and we had the Venus square Pluto aspect in synastry me being the Venus and he was Pluto. The control was the main issue in the relationship, I wasn't allowed out with friends and if I was going to go out then he would become very threatening towards me trying to keep his control and power over me, especially if he thought I was escaping from his grip. After a while the name calling and usual abuse wasn't working, so he would intensify it even more and become even more threatening and dangerous, and he would say he was going to kill my pets if I went out without him. Which is pretty sick. But this is the lengths he would go to if I wasn't doing what he wanted.

The more I tried to free myself the more possessive he would become he was not the compromising type of person and no matter how hard I tried to make the relationship work he would never meet me half way so there comes a time when you have to let go of this type of relationship because it can seriously mess up your mental state staying with a cold hearted abusive man.

I guess he was never willing to give up the control and possessiveness, but funnily enough, half the time he hardly spoke two words to me so he wasn't that interested in understanding me and who I was as a person I was just a possession that filled some kind of need for him, he just didn't seem to understand how the mental and physical abuse was tearing me apart it was really soul destroying not to be valued by someone who claims to love you but never really showed it. But then maybe I was placing too much of my self worth on how he loved me, I was desperate for love and someone to tell me I was a lovable person, but Love was not something he was capable of giving.

At times I found myself chasing after him even after he had abused me. I found it hard not to be with him the dark lonely unlovable feelings would be more pronounced when he wasn't there. When he was there it filled some kind of feeling into me or allowed me to be too distracted with all the drama that was going on so that I didn't have to be still and have all the feelings from childhood rise up and torture me and make me feel like nothing.

It has also been said that Pluto can have an hypnotizing affect on the Venus person who can be like me be compelled to return to the relationship time and time again. Usually he tried to make me feel sorry for him by saying he couldn't live without me and he would commit suicide if I left and even that gave me some importance in the world believing I mattered so much to someone, he would also give massive amounts of flattery and praise and my self esteem was rock bottom and he knew by saying these things to me I would soften up and return, so major manipulation was going on.

Natally I have Venus Square Pluto in my chart, so I have a tendency to attract Plutonian type of people into into my life. Pluto falls in Libra in the 2nd house, the house of self worth and possessions and values in the sign of relationships (Libra) square to my Venus in the 5th Capricorn. Maybe I have been compelled into these relationships to try and find a sense of my own power and self worth. The past relationship was very destructive, it finally ended when he attacked me not long after I had gotten out of hospital after surgery.

With my Present partner we have Venus trine Pluto and this does flow pretty easily in the relationship, and apparently this aspect can bring into the partnership a deepening sense of worth and pleasure. This aspect can help you believe in love again after having endured painful experiences from the past.

Here is the interpretation by Stephen Forrest for the natal Venus/Pluto which I found interesting to read as he didn't skim over any of the darkest potential in the aspect. But you can link some of the themes to the Venus square Pluto in synastry perhaps.

I know exactly what is this, it is as you have decribed my relationship (the first one you've described) with my ex (at last we managed to go apart!). He has his Pluto trining (not square, notice) my Venus and I have Pluto trining his Mercury ruler of his 7th (He says that us was his only successful marriage (!) which amazes me because for me was only hell!).
And I do get angry when I read things that say that this is not a tough aspect if one is willing to experience things deeeply and transform oneself and blablabla... I've challenged myself deeply, put at stake all my beliefs and the result was only hell. And I do think that Pluto-Venus realtionships as I've seen more than a couple around me (and that goes for tr Pluto con Venus as well) are always about two people that are sick. One pathologically psycologically sick and other, who tries to be the so-called healer but ends up discovering that has deep issues of low self-steem to have decided to cope with that anyway. That has been my experience and I've seen this happening a couple times in friends of mine, as well. At the end, one after being totally exhausted in his/her soul energies just have to give up and face the fact that the other is just mental/emotionally handicapped, vulgo, a pathological case often described in books of mental illness (and you did not have a clue in the beginning?!). The question is why should someone (often Venus) being attracted in the first place to a sick person? Low steem seems to be often the answer (most commonly comes out of a wounded heart or childhood issues). And I doubt that anyone hasn't had the intuition since the first moment of this relationship that this would end up badly (for you, of course) but decided to go on despite of this intuition.

To sum up, I see sickness in the pathological sense in this relationships Venus-Pluto, sorry if that ofends someone or is to harsh on someone who is now still under the spell of someone. But I am yet to be convinced that this is not the case.

aquacan

sbonney
08-23-2010, 03:47 AM
And I do think that Pluto-Venus realtionships as I've seen more than a couple around me (and that goes for tr Pluto con Venus as well) are always about two people that are sick. One pathologically psycologically sick and other, who tries to be the so-called healer but ends up discovering that has deep issues of low self-steem to have decided to cope with that anyway. That has been my experience and I've seen this happening a couple times in friends of mine, as well. At the end, one after being totally exhausted in his/her soul energies just have to give up and face the fact that the other is just mental/emotionally handicapped, vulgo, a pathological case often described in books of mental illness (and you did not have a clue in the beginning?!). The question is why should someone (often Venus) being attracted in the first place to a sick person? Low steem seems to be often the answer (most commonly comes out of a wounded heart or childhood issues). And I doubt that anyone hasn't had the intuition since the first moment of this relationship that this would end up badly (for you, of course) but decided to go on despite of this intuition.

To sum up, I see sickness in the pathological sense in this relationships Venus-Pluto, sorry if that ofends someone or is to harsh on someone who is now still under the spell of someone. But I am yet to be convinced that this is not the case.

aquacan

I think this post is dead on, i have had two relationships with pluto venus aspects and this was the end result, they were sick, and i have low self esteem and allowed myself to be abused by them. I was a perfect prey, looking for approval and love, and compensating by putting up with their abuse.Needless to say they walked away unharmed, and i am left to deal with their discarded venom. Note to self, i am never ever ever dating anyone again that has a pluto venus aspect to myself. It leaves tremendous amounts of scars.

Lion o ness
08-23-2010, 04:40 AM
Myself and this guy had "planned" on a short fling, we both have Venus Sq Pluto in our Natal's...

In Synastry his Venus quincunx my Pluto. His moon trines my pluto.


But go to the Composite and we get Moon conjunct Pluto and then both EXACTLY opposite Venus. :surprised:

Well this planned short fling was 9 months ago:whistling: We cant not break the tie, even though we have tried and tried and tried... When we dont talk I get obsessed. Im really feeling the Pluto...

This has been totally true in my case.
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Venus/Pluto in dynamic aspect can generate a sort of obsessive/compulsive partnership, one where the relationship creates situations and circumstances that compel us to dive into ourselves and understand just why we're so obsessive about this other person. Sometimes we'll even wonder just why we're so attracted to the other, and not even have a sound logical explanation to give ourselves, aside from a sort of feeling of entering the event horizon of a massive black hole. And that black hole is playing such beautiful music, or so it sounds through the power of Venus's attractive principle, that we just cant help but get sucked in. There's a bit of karma to all this, of course, and Venus/Pluto pairings often indicate the destination is personal transformation.
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sbonney
08-23-2010, 04:56 AM
God I know how you feel. I think i was the one obsessed with him. He didn't seem to show any obsession, only maniuplation and controlling and deceit. It had to end, i was starting to lose it mentally. No kidding, anxiety, paranoia, you name it.
Its been month and i know that "this too shall pass". Good luck with your situation, its hard. No wonder they say its karmic. I think these things are fated, not meant to last but meant to serve some sort of crazy purpose, i don't know "agony and ecstasy of love maybe", something for us to look back and reflect on while we're laying on our death bed (sorry to sound morbid):wink:

Lion o ness
08-23-2010, 05:08 AM
Ohh it gets worse for me... I cant get away.. We "ended" the fling, but still talk, and get pull away..

His moon is in my 8th very binding..

His Sun,merc, mars are in my 12th
My Venus, Saturn in his 12th..

He's all water, and Im all fire.. So he makes me emotional and I make him go into action..

I just wish he would stay out of my 12th house... LOL... THATS very very very intruding...

Plus we have alot of Neptune contacts so **** I flipping idolized the hell out of him.. I feel as if the Angels floated him down from heaven and dropped him on my door step, and then said SIKE!!! WELLLLL if you were a better person you could have had this great thing here!! BUT you made bad choice's so sit there and obesse about it.. Learn to deal!! My venus in his 12th makes me just want to please him, WHATEVER he wants... I just agree to.... Can you see a 4x LEO super fixed just saying yes yes whatever you want... LOL.......Ohhhh It get's worse He's a Pisces... I dont even have to explain the Leo/Pisces thing..:pinched:

The worst thing (ok not really) He's is one of the most important person in my life... I need his support... :crying:

I guess that will teach my AZZ to go out and agree to a FLING...

sbonney
08-24-2010, 12:09 AM
Ohh it gets worse for me... I cant get away.. We "ended" the fling, but still talk, and get pull away..

His moon is in my 8th very binding..

His Sun,merc, mars are in my 12th
My Venus, Saturn in his 12th..

He's all water, and Im all fire.. So he makes me emotional and I make him go into action..

I just wish he would stay out of my 12th house... LOL... THATS very very very intruding...

Plus we have alot of Neptune contacts so **** I flipping idolized the hell out of him.. I feel as if the Angels floated him down from heaven and dropped him on my door step, and then said SIKE!!! WELLLLL if you were a better person you could have had this great thing here!! BUT you made bad choice's so sit there and obesse about it.. Learn to deal!! My venus in his 12th makes me just want to please him, WHATEVER he wants... I just agree to.... Can you see a 4x LEO super fixed just saying yes yes whatever you want... LOL.......Ohhhh It get's worse He's a Pisces... I dont even have to explain the Leo/Pisces thing..:pinched:

The worst thing (ok not really) He's is one of the most important person in my life... I need his support... :crying:

I guess that will teach my AZZ to go out and agree to a FLING...

LOL, you are too funny. I am new to astrology so i have no idea what aspects my ex have to my chart, but it was a crazy mess too. I seemed to idolize him also, and its been a month and i still miss him. I think he wanted to have a fling with me aka booty call originally but knew i wouldn't stand for that **** so he made it seem like he was in a relationship with me, all the while acting like he was still single. WTF.

Seems like you both are attached to each other, what are you going to do?

Lion o ness
08-24-2010, 04:05 AM
When someone hits your Neptune, you see that person through rose colored glasses..

This guy hit my Neptune in just about every way imaginable. So even though I know I dont see him correctly... WHO CARES.. He's perfect!! The Angels did bring him to me.... LOL sighhhh....

As for me IDK one day at a time...

piscesnurse
10-27-2010, 12:07 AM
14076

could someone see this chart and see why we cannot stay away from each other thanks so much

piscesnurse
10-27-2010, 12:56 AM
please explain what does that mean

MelissaM
04-04-2011, 05:48 PM
The only thing to relieve our emotional state for being with a person who has a venus/Pluto aspect in connection with us, is laugh at ourselves and let this aspect transform us in a deeply good way. I cannot be so drastic and furious by describing this venus/pluto aspect as a psychological mental issue going on through the pairing. Even if you have this kind of situation with yourself, this aspect will let you know more about yourself and work on this. I found that every person who has a hard or soft Venus/Pluto aspect natally must face their own demons with the other whose venus/pluto aspect is strong in synastry. From my own experience until now, I can tell you that if you have a hard venus/pluto aspect natally, you won't skip the chance of meeting your plutonian or venusian person in this lifetime because as the hindu philosophy says, the connection that the venus/pluto aspect creates is of a karmic one, we all have to go through this in order to let us change ourselves no matter how stubborn you are about yourself from not letting yourself to change. Most of the time this aspect meets during our first saturn return, or when you are dealing with a traumatic event in your personal life or when you feel loneliness, empty even when you are married and with kids. This karmic tie will teach you for good or for bad depending of your own perspective and circumstances. The venus/pluto aspect is not easy when married, the couple must be very strong and understanding in order to keep the relationship forever. Both partners should learn not to be stubborn on themselves and let change come to their life. THIS ASPECT HAS THE SATURNIAN ENERGY. I am still dealing with that (A venus/pluto conjunction in synastry), we cannot let go of each other, I know this pluto person (His good and evil ways), and I am still falling for him. Many times I left him but then when I was alone, I couldn't get him out of my mind, I was depressed, I couldn't concentrate in my daily life, in my work., I had to be friends with him agailn, he as the pluto person, let me come back to him, he became more understanding and jealous at the same time, I am happy, I feel like someone who is my soul mirror is with me and I can concentrate, and do my things happily but then I know that if we get very close, the deep emotional tornato comes again. I am really praying God for bringing me a person who will be able to make me forget about this pluto person however I know that the umbilical cord should break in order for both of us to be apart.

MelissaM
04-05-2011, 05:19 PM
Check this site. This site will provide you a better description of the venu/pluto aspect in synastry

http://theastrologyplace.blogspot.com/2011/03/venus-pluto-synastry.html

MelissaM
04-05-2011, 05:20 PM
Check this site. This site will provide you a better description of the venus/pluto aspect in synastry

http://theastrologyplace.blogspot.com/2011/03/venus-pluto-synastry.html

MelissaM
04-09-2011, 03:13 PM
I understand you, maybe this person also felt badly and still feeling this way. I, as the venus person conjuncting his pluto (1 degree orb), could feel the confused, mixed emotions that he brought me into myself. I thought he was the one at first, that we were soulmates, actually this seems that we were so alike but all these are just an illusion, he was able to have a window of my naked soul and grab my weakness and take it for his bad motives but as I am pluto as well, since my venus conjuncts pluto, my pluto also conjuncts my sun natally, I know what were his motives, I could read every move from him in order to go beyond with his game of trapping me more and more and make me feel sick and vulnerable...

Get rid of this person, this is very harmful! I lighted many candles and pray for his departure. I want him to just leave away.

MelissaM
04-09-2011, 03:56 PM
Love yourself moonwillow, this is a learning experience, life or if you believe in god, brings you the people who will change you at some point in your life. Make this experience a good one and learn to let go in order to stop causing pain to yourself. If you return to this person who has a "vampire" effect on you, he will keep controlling you and treat you as a puppet, at the end, you will regret yourself so badly for not loving yourself enough.

He picks up my thoughts so accurate, there were times that these things amazed me...how can a person is able to do those things to me since I am person who is not that easy of sharing myself. Now I know that if I fall into his spell again, I know that he will laugh at me making him the winner of his malicious game.

Moonwillow, you are lucky for using astrology as a tool of self observance and knowledge of others... keep using it, not many people as you, know astrology and fall so deeply into the hole of degradation and self pity for having this hard aspect with someone. You know his bad side so now, this is time to leave!

MaeMae
04-17-2011, 07:35 AM
i like this thread, and thanks for that link on venus-pluto.

i have this aspect in synastry with a lover i have recently ended things with. everything i've read here is a mirror to my own experience.

obsession/compulsion
feeling degraded
jealousy and manipulation

it's always so hot and tempestuous and makes you feel alive, doesn't it? until the bad feelings seep in, pour in, flood in, and take over.

i finally had to come to grips with MY desire for peace of mind over my desire of the physical plane. it's not an easy one, by any stretch, but maybe that's how ugly it had to get in order for my venus (pisces) to stand up and say "No Mas."

Lithuel
04-17-2011, 06:05 PM
Wow. I have the charts for my boyfriend, my ex-boyfriend, and 4 other guys I've slept with, and every single one of them features a Venus-Pluto connection in the synastry, composite, or both.

Guy 1: My Pluto conjunct his Venus by less than a degree (as well as his Pluto conjunct My Moon by the same orb).

Guy 2: Composite Pluto trine Venus with 6* orb (as well as trining the Sun with a 6* orb and the Mercury with a 2* orb).

Guy 3: His Venus smack-dab in the middle of my Moon-Pluto Conjunction (and only a degree away was his Eros).

Guy 4: Without a doubt the hottest "meeting" ever. That's not to say Making Love hasn't been better (which it has), but this was the purely, pristinely primal. His Venus, like Guy 3's, is on the midpoint of my already-conjunct Moon-Pluto. His Venus was also trine my Mars within 2*. His Pluto then trines my Venus (2*) and squares my Mars (0*). The square of His Pluto-My Mars is actually a completion (for both of our charts) of a T-square formation, where every aspect is within 2* (the T-square is His Pluto in Libra, My Mars in Cancer, His Jupiter in Aries, and My Neptune/Saturn in Capricorn).

Finally (for this guy), Composite Pluto sextiles Venus (3*) and trines Mars (5*).

Ex-Boyfriend: Composite Pluto square Venus (3*) and Mars (5*).

Boyfriend: My Pluto squares his Sun (2*), conjuncts his Neptune (0*), and trines his Chiron (0*). Our Plutos sextile each other (2*). His Pluto sextiles my Moon (3*), squares my Mercury (5*), squares my Venus (1*), sextiles my Mars (1*), squares my Jupiter (3*), trines my Saturn (2*), trines my Uranus (6*), and trines my Neptune (1*).

~~~~~~

As you can see, I apparently am drawn to the intensity of Pluto in a big way. Probably my natal 8th house stellium (Sun/Merc/Ven/Jup) and my 1st house Moon-Pluto conjunction in Scorpio.

MaeMae
04-17-2011, 07:29 PM
as regards these venusian/plutonian relations, i can remember something that robert blaschke, (still with us in spirit) told me:

"Intensity is no equal to intimacy."

Intimacy takes trust and truth and mutual reciprocation. My experience with this man, his pluto opp. my venus lacked all three of these elements.

The depths that this relationship has taken me are staggering. I suppose at some point, perhaps I am already beginning to, I will realize that it did take me deep into my own desires, which revealed an uncomfortable darkness that needed to be exposed and cleansed. That's pluto working.

Nonetheless, to want someone that is so bad for you, who takes you to the depths of despair and humiliation? I'll pass on this one next time!

Post Script*
Thinking about helpful tranists that are helping me move away from this relationship - Transiting Uranus in Aries is conjuncting our composite 8th house moon. Transformation? possibly, but definitely an ending. I think it takes the powerful outer planets Ur-Nep-Pl to bust a couple free or from the Venus-Pluto grip. How people survive this type of relationship is mindboggling. I felt if I was to stay locked into it one more minute, I would go crazy - so much manipulation and power trips by both of us. In fact, I might have gone a bit over the top in my behaviors with him. I think I'll be so grateful I got myself free from it that I won't even be embarrassed by my behaviors working to do it. There's gotta be an easier way. But this is my experience only.

Lithuel
04-19-2011, 07:19 PM
How people survive this type of relationship is mindboggling. I felt if I was to stay locked into it one more minute, I would go crazy - so much manipulation and power trips by both of us. In fact, I might have gone a bit over the top in my behaviors with him. I think I'll be so grateful I got myself free from it that I won't even be embarrassed by my behaviors working to do it. There's gotta be an easier way. But this is my experience only.

It's critically important how the two people manifest the energies in a Venus-Pluto situation. Yes, it can manifest in power plays, manipulation, debasement, and humiliation. But it doesn't have to be. I find value in exploring the depths and heights of the human soul with my love interests. But less plutonic-type people might dislike this intensity, or not be able to handle it. For some people, though, it's the highest path to take.

I think it takes the powerful outer planets Ur-Nep-Pl to bust a couple free or from the Venus-Pluto grip.

I can testify to that. My boyfriend of 3 years, with whom I lived (and yet had a very unhealthy relationship of bickering), we had Composite Pluto square Venus with a 3* orb. When we broke up, there wasn't an exact date, but it was broadly toward the end of July, 2010. At the time, the Saturn/Uranus opposition at 0* Libra/Aries was forming a T-square with Pluto at 3* Capricorn. The Sun was in the first few degrees of Leo [rulership], forming a trine with Uranus and sextile with Saturn, and I felt it was directing the energy for me to break from the relationship.

Serendipity
04-20-2011, 10:31 PM
Good ole Venus and Pluto. I have this aspect in synastry with my husband. Venus square my Pluto. I'm the Pluto person. We've been married for nearly 15 years. Not sure how it affects him but we do have the occasional power struggle.
Many many moons ago I had a Venus/Pluto opposition with a guy I was dating. I was the Venus. Venus seems to be the one burdened by the relationship and when Venus tries to pull out, then the Pluto person is obsessive and controlling.. like please don't leave.
I felt like a weight had been lifted when I finally got out. Relieved.

MaeMae
04-21-2011, 12:01 AM
Good ole Venus and Pluto. I have this aspect in synastry with my husband. Venus square my Pluto. I'm the Pluto person. We've been married for nearly 15 years. Not sure how it affects him but we do have the occasional power struggle.
Many many moons ago I had a Venus/Pluto opposition with a guy I was dating. I was the Venus. Venus seems to be the one burdened by the relationship and when Venus tries to pull out, then the Pluto person is obsessive and controlling.. like please don't leave.
I felt like a weight had been lifted when I finally got out. Relieved.

I can relate.

Kama
04-21-2011, 09:47 AM
What about the aspects of the ruler of 8th??? Do you think it equals pluto-aspects?
In my experience it does, and it sometimes explains intense attractions you would not expect from the general overview.
kama

MaeMae
05-07-2011, 03:39 PM
What about the aspects of the ruler of 8th??? Do you think it equals pluto-aspects?
In my experience it does, and it sometimes explains intense attractions you would not expect from the general overview.
kama

Personally, I wouldn't say it equals the aspects of pluto-venus bewteen charts. Planets and aspects create active energy. Houses are more a place for them to be carried out. But certainly the house issues/matters will be touched off, and if by stressful aspect to ruler, it can be an unpleasant visit, or vice versa, if it's a positive aspect, it would feel comfortable to visit that house.

An synastry aspect to the ruler brings attention to the house matters for the native. The synastry is more of an exchange of energies.

MelissaM
05-10-2011, 06:53 PM
I am strong in this venus/pluto aspect in synastry. Since I am myself have a venus/pluto conjunction natally, I am able to read his motives. Many times, we broke up the relationship but all these times, I didn't succeed leaving him because I was feeling lonely and depressed, however, I recently told him not even friendship, nothing. In this aspect, we cannot even remain friends, no way, the intensity is always there and danger as well. This man wants only sex and get into myself profoundly. He is bad because he is not free to have a relationship. He wants to destroy my dignity and soul.

MaeMae
05-10-2011, 08:06 PM
melisa -

"girl, can we talk?!"

although i might suggest the pluto person might not set out to destroy venus' dignity, values and self-esteem, they just won't be troubled if that's the result.

the pluto person's desire is conscienceless and unconscious at times - they are driven by deep, internal desires which are often beyond their own comprehension - not the way neptune is like "huh? was i doing that? i didn't mean to hurt you," but the pluto way, "well, if you aren't strong enough, then you deserve it I guess...

my take.

MelissaM
05-12-2011, 09:14 PM
Unu, this is a great information, much better than any information from other websites. However, I am very private and reserved. I never allowed somebody to go beyond of what I am. The pluto person in my life, wanted to get into me but I am sure that he is not having a good purpose for doing this. If I let him in I would be so stupid and I would never forgive myself. The pluto person manipulates the venus person in a psychological way to the point that the pluto person will find out the venus weakness and will use it for his/her advantage. I feel secure having him out of my life and even if there is an obsession on my side, I would not let him to get in. The sexual attraction is very strong but I should know how to have self control, the same for him.

Lion o ness
05-12-2011, 09:26 PM
Whats the difference of venus/pluto when its only in the composite?

Whos venus and whos pluto? Or do they both go back and fourth being both?

MaeMae
05-13-2011, 04:27 AM
It's critically important how the two people manifest the energies in a Venus-Pluto situation. Yes, it can manifest in power plays, manipulation, debasement, and humiliation. But it doesn't have to be. I find value in exploring the depths and heights of the human soul with my love interests. But less plutonic-type people might dislike this intensity, or not be able to handle it. For some people, though, it's the highest path to take.

I can testify to that. My boyfriend of 3 years, with whom I lived (and yet had a very unhealthy relationship of bickering), we had Composite Pluto square Venus with a 3* orb. When we broke up, there wasn't an exact date, but it was broadly toward the end of July, 2010. At the time, the Saturn/Uranus opposition at 0* Libra/Aries was forming a T-square with Pluto at 3* Capricorn. The Sun was in the first few degrees of Leo [rulership], forming a trine with Uranus and sextile with Saturn, and I felt it was directing the energy for me to break from the relationship.

Lithuel -

You make a good point, however I might suggest that the Venus-Pluto aspect seems to be exacerbated by something like Mars-Pluto or Moon-Pluto. A yin-yang orientation to intensity and passion on emotional and physical levels that defy standards and protocol (such sterile words, I know, but true.)

I have Moon-Pluto square and a wide but understanding Mars-Pluto sextile (I am generous with orbs, through experience, up to 7 or 8 or even 10 degrees when the powerhouse planets are in play).

...the higher path to take is key here.

Pluto, similar to Saturn, expects us to go the distance. Saturn wants beneficial outcomes to define us. Pluto wants the experience to define us. "Are you tough enough?" Two completely different means to an end. They both demand that we show what we're made of, though legitimate means and not-so-legitimate means is the dividing point.

Pluto-Venus is balls-to-the-wall and well, Saturn-Venus, not so much....but intent and desire meet up and it can become a free-for-all for Pluto-Venus.

Venus-Pluto, as I've been pondering, synastrically, is very much about a "kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out" kind of way. Saturn is different, "may the best man win..." Both will go the distance, but with different outcomes in mind. Pluto wants depth, visit the belly of the beast kind of thing. Venus gets caught up in that web, gets sucked dry alive and well, not pretty if it doesn't nourish Venus. Saturn wants things to be manageable.

In my own Venus-Pluto instance, with this transiting stellium Aries opposing Saturn here and there- my 9th and 3rd, I finally got a dose of Saturn when I understood on a "big picture/intellectual" (i.e. not emotionally based) level, that I was giving a deep part of myself to someone who wasn't willing to do the same. Somewhere, that Aries/Libra me vs. you polarity reared its head about this in my 9th/3rd.

There is a learning and self-realization that comes with these Venus-Pluto couplings, but it is not without pain. I really think in these instances, we have to look at the supporting aspects or transits to our charts to break us free from the hold. For those who can stick with it, my hat's off to you, truly, knowing that Saturn is operating. ****, what a cocktail that must be!

P.S., With this Mars energy rampant, and thinking about the Venus-Pluto aspect, it reminds me of the Pat Benetar song, Love is a Battlefield

moonwillow
05-15-2011, 03:33 PM
It has been a while since I have last seen the pluto individual, It has been hard, believe me, but the best thing. I still grieve, or rather obssess. I am guessing this will go on for a bit. I have venus square pluto in my natal. I guess this is part of the problem. I have read such a lot of bad things about people with venus square pluto, and I usually sweat after reading.
some of the things they say about people with this aspect is pretty harsh and I do not aspire to any of those descriptions.
I do obsess, about everything, especially people I care about. I do feel things to the core, at the gut level, intensly, but I take my life seriously and adhere to strict moral code. This is why I was able to pull back from the Pluto person albeit a traumatic and painful experience of my life.
With this pluto person, I miss him, but it is good he is out of my life. I think about him all the time. time will heal...time is a blessing
I have cancer sun
capricorn moon
scorpio rising 18 degrees
venus and mars in the eighth house
venus square pluto
moon trine pluto
sun sesquid(something or other) pluto
not quite sure what all this means, still learning.

I wish I could have had the opportunity to experience the good part of this aspect. I know there are some good things with this aspect. It cannot be all bad.

MelissaM
05-15-2011, 04:36 PM
Moonwillow, I feel your pain...our experience about this venus and pluto aspect is very similar. I have my venus conjuncts pluto natally in my 10 house of career and public affairs. I met the pluto person at work, at my restaurant business( a place where I deal with the public). He liked my social skills and charming attitude (the venusian traits). Then he was fascinated about my empathetic and comprehensive side for people (my moon in scorpio trining his ascendant in cancer) - water signs.

Don't be afraid for having your venus square pluto natally, in fact, this is a good thing because you are able to handle the situation much better than a person with no venus/pluto aspect natally. Actually you understand the pluto energy very well since you already were experiencing it in yourself, thus everytime you meet a person with a venus/pluto hard aspect, you will know when to pull back from this person and make a smart decision for your own wellness.

MelissaM
05-15-2011, 04:36 PM
Moonwillow, I feel your pain...our experience about this venus and pluto aspect is very similar. I have my venus conjuncts pluto natally in my 10 house of career and public affairs. I met the pluto person at work, at my restaurant business( a place where I deal with the public). He liked my social skills and charming attitude (the venusian traits). Then he was fascinated about my empathetic and comprehensive side for people (my moon in scorpio trining his ascendant in cancer) - water signs.

Don't be afraid for having your venus square pluto natally, in fact, this is a good thing because you are able to handle the situation much better than a person with no venus/pluto aspect natally. Actually you understand the pluto energy very well since you already were experiencing it in yourself, thus everytime you meet a person with a venus/pluto hard aspect, you will know when to pull back from this person and make a smart decision for your own wellness.

MelissaM
05-15-2011, 04:49 PM
By the way, he, the pluto person, wants to see me and have physical contact with me, to me, this is hard just to forget about him. He has an urgency to know how I am and protect me but I cannot trust him. He doesn't even realize his manipulative side and how hurtful he is to me at times. Sometimes as the venus person, I am not able to get rid of the sexual thoughts about him and when I see him, he turns me on quickly...drives me crazy at times.. never felt it too intense

Lion o ness
05-15-2011, 05:35 PM
I also have venus sq Pluto natally... I do think about people alot, I also fantasize about them (venus/mars hits neptune) For me its just "normal" I really dont feel intense feelings for everyone.. Its actually rare for me to really really feel for someone.. Or to even care.. Even though Im thinking/fantizing about them.. lol.. But then after a short while, Im like blahh and I totally forget about that person and go on to the next and start all over again..

I fee it more with moon/pluto.. I really like moon/pluto... Thats when I feel it intensly.
Now when I got hit with moon/pluto venus/pluto.. With a person that also has venus sq pluto in his natal..
Omg it hit me sooo hard.. I got the obessision (that describes natal venus/pluto) I just would do anything anything.. Its been the most intense feelings I have ever felt.. I liked it, but at the same time it drove me nuts..

Its been very hard to let him go. Ive had a hard time getting over it... We became friends to keep each other in our lives.. But thats been weird.... The fantasy and obession got worse for me..
Im still working to get over this. Its been one of the most challanging things I have had to overcome...
Im still at a total loss..
This guy just hit every single "spot" in my chart..

sighhh

moonwillow
05-15-2011, 09:23 PM
Hang in there MelissaM, I feel your pain too, and I very sympatico with you. As long as he continues to be in your life, there will always be pain, because the feelings will always be there.
I will never forget the pluto person, I really do believe in this Karmic tie as annoying as this is. I wish I could have something wise to tell you, to help you through this. But this takes alot of strength and wisdom. These are really hard lessons.
You are in my prayers MelissaM. You will gain strength from this and wisdom too. Mother time, always heals.

moonwillow
05-15-2011, 09:46 PM
Lion o Ness, I wish I had the ability to detach like you. You would think with a moon in capricorn detaching would be easy, just has not worked out for me. I am sure other aspects in my chart might explain this.

With pluto person, I also had a moon trine pluto, and sun conjunct pluto...all this was so convoluted you know... we had some uranus garbage too
sun conjunct uranus. I know all these aspects did not help the situation either, just added fuel to the misery.

Lithuel
05-17-2011, 03:58 PM
I stumbled across a blog entry that I thought would be good for those who are dealing with Pluto in synastry: http://theinnerwheel.com/2009/11/13/synastry-q-a-plutonian-relations/

moonwillow
05-17-2011, 11:45 PM
Lithuel This site is amazing. Thank you.

From the article
"The best of Pluto goes forward with awareness. The worst of Pluto doesn’t know the difference between pruning dead branches and uprooting the entire tree. He can be a healer, allowing new growth, or he can be a thug, leaving us lying battered in the street."

I can safely say he has left me battered.

"Pluto to any planet, either natally or between charts, brings this same pattern of silence, observation, analysis, and explosion" (Definitely explains alot about me) I have venus square pluto, I am sure having a scorpio rising and both venus and mars in the eighth doesn't help amongst others

"They will erupt on you just when you think you’re safe, when you are least able to defend yourself, and often walk away not realizing what they’ve done. Pluto’s powers of observation may be acute, but it’s not the most sensitive or empathetic of energies."

This article was awesome. I just wish I could stop obsessing!

thanks again

Pixienoire
05-19-2011, 05:08 PM
I am starting to think that I am the only person alive who actually really likes the Pluto aspects in synastry. I've never felt such intense feelings of passion, deepness, and love in a relationship before. I feel addicted to the feelings, and I know that I could not walk away if I wanted to. Before we came together, there was always an invisible pull there which I'm sure was caused by the Plutonian energy between the two of us. I want to merge into him and become one, only then would I be able to attain the level of closeness that I strive for. Not to mention the sex is completely otherworldly. I heart Pluto! :devil:

Neither one of us have heavy Pluto aspects in our natal chart, but in both our synastry chart and composite chart, they are loaded with heavy Pluto contacts.

These are our Pluto aspects in synastry.

He is Pluto in these.

Pluto Opposite Sun
Pluto Square Mars
Pluto Trine Jupiter
Pluto Conjunct Uranus
Pluto Opposite Chiron
Pluto Sextile Part of Fortune
Pluto Trine Lilith

I am Pluto in these.

Pluto Sextile Mercury
Pluto Square Venus
Pluto Opposite Jupiter
Pluto Square Neptune
Pluto Sextile Lilith
Pluto Sextile Ascendant
Pluto Conjunct Midheaven

Lithuel
05-21-2011, 05:08 AM
I am starting to think that I am the only person alive who actually really likes the Pluto aspects in synastry.

No, you're not the only one :wink: I too, enjoy the intensity and depth of Pluto.

Lion o ness
05-21-2011, 05:16 AM
Ohhh Yeah....... I gotta have the intensity :)

soda1ash2
05-21-2011, 07:08 AM
My Pluto is conjuct this man's venus, sun and mercury in syanstry... and he has pluto conjunct sun, venus nd mercury in his natal... we have a moon opp pluto in composite and pluto trine mars in composite, with also pluto sextile saturn..

I’m a Pisces and he is the scorpio in this relationship…
"It was not love, it never was.. it was an attraction which faded more and more as I began to discover that he was lesser and lesser of the person that I pictured him to be….
It was a way to temporarily fill up the then emptiness of my life…. But what he thinks of me now – an angel or a devil or a plane conceited idiot.. that I would never know….. All that I would ever know is that he let me go and chose not to speak…
I am indebted to you as my apparent fondness for you was the only thing that kept me sane in the days where reality was too harsh to deal… I must have been annoying; for you chose not to speak to me… But Dear God, thanks for sending him to me… and make me feel an illusion of love atleast… I think it is the most ethereal form of love I’m sure to ever know and feel…. the most 1 sided ever, as I perceive it to be..
But all my illusions of what I thought you feel for me will stay on…. As they were all that I wanted u to feel for me… and the only thoughts I filled my empty mind when it had no better thoughts to see… the fact that you were closer home made me look for surety and security in the way I chose to live my life afar, which had no semblance with what I wanted it to be.…
U used me and I used u in our own desperate ways …….nd now we are even, in this not so good world…
But still I want to claim that the best times of my life r the days when I crushed on u.. as they were the most dreamy.. nd trust me real life for me at most times dint match the dreamy part… …….. but I still believe in dreams…"
I’m still looking for closure… while now I have come close to believing that he never felt any love for me throughout… the love that oh so I wanted him to feel…. But he was rather smart enough to milk the situation where I was totally into him, by asking me for projects and stuff most of the time… now I feel confirmedly that this scorpio was such a bad choice for a first love… I hate the fact that we are not in talking terms anymore, though I run over again and again in my mind as to what made us depart in a way to never meet again.. I just spent time with him for 20 days… nd that was enough to keep me engaged with his thoughts at the back of mind for the next one year…
May be on fine day.. I will be able to make sense of what all happened between me and him… or that might never even happen as I have to go on living… Not even crumbling academics could make me this genuinely depressed… May b that’s because there is one more living being involve din this situation as opposed to unresponsive academics..
But what the hell… I still kinda feel really bad that he did not feel an eon of true love, or for that matter any liking for me… and also it feels bad that I crushed on a ghost, a non-living entity of what my impression of him was, for such ****ing long period… where everyone around me were in actual relationships…
The worse things about this scorp was-
1. He used me to get projects, instead of knowing that I was interested in him in a romatic way, while he din’t..( wat the hell. He dint even love me, nd he wanted projects from me, cos he thought I could do a lot for him, in this sided love)
2. He was ****ing proud of his material success, which I do not deny, but at the same time only that attitude was pouring out when he opened his mouth.
3. The fact that “He” will never love me even in the future pisses me off, as this was my first try with romance..
4. The fact that we departed with bad blood between us pisses me off… inspite of the fact that this situation made me learn diplomacy with other ppl excepting him, as I needed it to survive the period of my rejection by him..
5. I look better than him, but there seems to be some magnetic pull in him, nd supposedly he might have thought twice cos I was nearly 3 years older to him.. nd supposedly if a guy likes u he will let it know very clearly, nd he doesn’t confuse a girl like this; otherwise its just waste of time for the girl to even think and go behind the guy.. nd supposedly I was not attractive enough to be loved by him… nd I don’t see how I could have escaped this situation by being personal about this for sooo long…. I might forget all this one day…. But I will definitely go down the drain of history as a pisces who couldn’t hold a scorpio’s attention.
6. I hate the fact that he never tried to contact me back and let me go away so easily… nd disillusioning me about the love which in my head I thought he had in me for soo long( nd supposed undercurrent of intensity I thought which existed between us, which I used to forcibly try and find in all things connected to us)…it made be scared that I was trying to survive in some alternative reality, for even all the years that I spent before meeting him..
7. Supposedly love stories were supposed to have good endings and not such mentally torturous ones for atleast one person..
8. ****ing astrology made me believe that scorpio-pisecs relationship was other-wordly.. when it did not even live upto being worldly in any sense…
9. Now, I feel iek a reaalll looooser, not a thanks to that scorpio guy…
10. He elicited only –ve recations fom me after a point of time..
11. The fact that he was shared such electric aspects between our charts dint do anything to improve the situation between us… 
12. Now I wonder whether I would be able to love and appreciate any guy with the intensity with which I did for this guy..
13. Nd he ****ing got away from all this without even feeling a eon of guilt or for that matter any other emotion in the dictionary..
14. Whereas I incarcerated day and night thinking about what actually went soo ****ing wrong..
15. The fact that he did not feel any love for me as naturally as I felt for him… nd not even knowing now as to what on earth I’m supposed to do to get that..
16. Nd the internal haunting that I might go down his brain as a stupid crasy freak..
17. Nd the fear that I wouldn’t be able to forget what happened with me in this way..
18. The fact that he would enjoying with other girls..
19. The fact that he gave me enough warning that he wasn’t interested..,Lol..

moonwillow
05-21-2011, 04:27 PM
I am so very sorry Soda1ash2, that you are going through this.

So much sorrow, you articulated your pain very well.

I never for one minute took in consideration what the pluto(him) conjunct my venus precisely must have felt.
I think I understand now what he must have/or is feeling right now.

Lithuel
05-22-2011, 08:03 AM
It was not love, it never was.. it was an attraction which faded more and more as I began to discover that he was lesser and lesser of the person that I pictured him to be….

Ah, the "cruel" depths of Pluto. I put "cruel" in quotation marks ("_") because it is only our perception of Pluto that we deem as cruel. Pluto simply gets to the bottom and exposes all preconceptions. Sometimes, Pluto finds a heart of gold. Other times, Pluto finds a soul which does it no good. The Pluto person cannot help but see thru a person's visage, seeing what is good or bad beneath.

ShouldIStayOrShouldIGo?
05-23-2011, 08:56 AM
Oh now that I've read all this about the Pluto/Venus in synastry sounds like I'm swimming in the dark waters or at least I'm about to dive in:happy:

There's something going on between me and this guy and my Pluto conjuncts his Venus in Synastry chart.. Theres more though...his pluto conjuncts my Mars and my Saturn and all of those Pluto aspects go on in my 7th and in his 6th and 7th house. Plus, my natal Venus squares Pluto and his natal venus is in conjunction with Pluto. Sounds like...well...how can I put it...Fun?!:happy:

To put all the jokes aside, so far this doesn't look anything like a violent relationship in any way, so I don't know what to expect really or if I should take the Pluto all that seriously....

bttrklk
05-23-2011, 07:43 PM
is there anyone who knows about venus-pluto quincunx aspect? i couldn't find any good explanations about it.i know that one person will be more obsessive and the other one will have the upper hand in pluto-venus contacts but the roles change according to the aspects.in conjunction pluto person will be the more obsessive one and in opposition or square,the venus person will be.but there is no enough information about quincunx.i have venus pluto contacts with the man i love but i can't predict who has the obsession

-my venus opposite his pluto at 6 degrees
-his venus quincunx my pluto exactly

Claire19
05-24-2011, 07:03 AM
The problem with synastry is that is confusing and contradictory. The composite aspect is more indicative of the relationship and how others tend to view you as a couple. THe dynamics at play and they are not always as one might expect.

Venus square Pluto, depending on which houses are involved can mean financial woes and also a degree of manipulation and secrecy. Obsessive and dominating characteristics. Sexual issues. One aspect alone should not determine if you go or stay. We come together to grow and serve out our karma and all is not a bed of roses in any relationship.

MelissaM
05-27-2011, 03:21 AM
If you are ready to change yourself well you should stay but if you are not ready and you resist to change the way you think about love, your ways, actually what you are now, well you just have to let go and keep yourself the way you are. The venus person has a powerful energy who is capable to change the pluto person through hard times. "Very challenging times" for both if they unite. I consider this aspect as a tranformative aspect, the Phenix aspect. The pluto person in my life brought me deep hurt and cries in my soul. I love myself and I won't allow him to manipulate me and keep lying to me. For some people this aspect bring something good into their life, this just depends how the person is. Always check her/his natal chart first, then compare both by getting a synastry chart to know how the energies combine and then do the composite chart to get deeper into the relationship.. love is not based only in attractions, you should be able to trust, mutual respect, mutual understanding and no mind games in order to be "real love"

moonwillow
05-27-2011, 03:35 PM
I am with you MelissaM

Vagabondgirl
05-27-2011, 04:25 PM
My ex boyfriend had his Venus in Aquarius exactly square my Mercury/Pluto conjunction in Scorpio. My best friend and roommate has the same placement of Venus. I also have Jupiter conjunct their venus in Aquarius. I had intense relationships (friend and boyfriend) with both of them. Either extreme pleasure or extreme rage. Thin line between love and hate (or irritation) maybe? And there is a new guy I like that has the same birthdate as the ex.... Quite intense emotions there, love/hate again:P Its seems like the intense emotions from them is some kind of "catalyzator" for funny psychic experiences too though.

My dad has his Venus (Taurus) in opposition to my Mercury/Pluto. His Pluto (Leo) is squaring this again. And my mum has natally Venus/Pluto conjunction. So it seems like Ive always had this Pluto aspect in synastry almost my whole life. So for me all this might be "normal".

Also, what these people have in common is that they in their own ways are a little or at times VERY secretive. Trying to hide stuff from me or others all the time. This bothers a Mercury/Pluto in Scorpio person I feel:D I mean it worries me that they try so desperately to hide stuff, cause it doesnt feel so healthy. And I can be honest with them about stuff and they get like the shocks of their lives...

Chirongirl
05-27-2011, 06:13 PM
I know exactly what is this, it is as you have decribed my relationship (the first one you've described) with my ex (at last we managed to go apart!). He has his Pluto trining (not square, notice) my Venus and I have Pluto trining his Mercury ruler of his 7th (He says that us was his only successful marriage (!) which amazes me because for me was only hell!).
And I do get angry when I read things that say that this is not a tough aspect if one is willing to experience things deeeply and transform oneself and blablabla... I've challenged myself deeply, put at stake all my beliefs and the result was only hell. And I do think that Pluto-Venus realtionships as I've seen more than a couple around me (and that goes for tr Pluto con Venus as well) are always about two people that are sick. One pathologically psycologically sick and other, who tries to be the so-called healer but ends up discovering that has deep issues of low self-steem to have decided to cope with that anyway. That has been my experience and I've seen this happening a couple times in friends of mine, as well. At the end, one after being totally exhausted in his/her soul energies just have to give up and face the fact that the other is just mental/emotionally handicapped, vulgo, a pathological case often described in books of mental illness (and you did not have a clue in the beginning?!). The question is why should someone (often Venus) being attracted in the first place to a sick person? Low steem seems to be often the answer (most commonly comes out of a wounded heart or childhood issues). And I doubt that anyone hasn't had the intuition since the first moment of this relationship that this would end up badly (for you, of course) but decided to go on despite of this intuition.

To sum up, I see sickness in the pathological sense in this relationships Venus-Pluto, sorry if that ofends someone or is to harsh on someone who is now still under the spell of someone. But I am yet to be convinced that this is not the case.

aquacan


Such simple truth in such simple words. I agree with every single word you said in here, even with the intution! The first time I saw my ex who and I share a double whammy of Venus Pluto along with his Venus squaring my Moon, deep down someone screamed at me: RUN!! My whole instinct shouted at me to run and get away of that person. It felt pure evil. but then again...you do get sucked into Pluto's dark hole.

You truely deserve a prize for your comment, Aquacan.

moonwillow
05-30-2011, 08:34 PM
I have recently experienced this, venus conj pluto (me) and Pluto conj venus (him) we had other venus/pluto and venus/neptune venus/saturn, sun/jupiter/uranus aspects.

I agree with with Aquacan. These are tough aspects to deal with, and when he (pluto) came into my life I was going through hell in my current relationship. I mean HELL, it seems to me from what I have read is that these aspects get triggered or these people come into our lives when we are at our most vulnerable.

I don't know much about astrology, only just learning. Learnt alot from reading threads and posts on this site, another aspect of this is that we Plutonion people, (I have venus square pluto natally amongst others) we tend to attract these people.

misery attracts misery at least in my case. Now all I do is think of him, my mercury also conjunct his pluto 0 orb.

I do intend to RUN each time someone like this comes into my life again
I am glad this is over and we will never have contact again. At least I can get on with my life. Even if I think of him every passing hour.
I am relying on mother time to help. It will heal. I hope.

Venusinlibra
07-03-2011, 03:08 AM
Im glad to read all those posts about people that HAD venus/pluto relationships and survived, because Im just begining to dive into one relationship like that and I feel like Im tied inside an runaway train. Ive had sick relationships before (moon in the 12th square venus, saturn in the seventh house) so I know very well how they look like. And I simply cant prevent myself to fall again! Me and this guy, we dont have venus/pluto conexions in sinastry, but in composite uranus conjunt pluto in the 12th/asc and both square venus in 3th.

And I can see all the signs of the ordeal Im going through, and I dont have the strength to get out. The sexual atraction, the manipulation, the fear of being deserted AGAIN and left alone to deal with you misery, while the other seems to be so perfect and fortunate in everything.

The only really good aspect we have is that in sinastry his netune conjunt ascendant trines my moon conjunt ascendant.

Question: theres no way, at all, a relationship like this turn into something pleasant, warming, rewarding?

PS - I said Im begining? We have been dating for 1 and half year now, and he still refuses to give me his adress and phone number! He lives in another country, so he comes and goes, aparently, to the outer space.

desperateneptune
07-13-2011, 06:44 PM
Venus pluto aspects have a lot of lessons to give even if you are the one to suffer the abusive behaviour..they make you stand up for yourself or else you ll be eaten alive...at the end you have gained a valuable experience equal to a treasure

pudinnpop
07-13-2011, 07:57 PM
Here Here!!! I agree with the last poster..Such was the case in my relationship!! I actually got tougher!!

Venusinlibra
07-14-2011, 12:06 PM
Venus pluto aspects have a lot of lessons to give even if you are the one to suffer the abusive behaviour..they make you stand up for yourself or else you ll be eaten alive...at the end you have gained a valuable experience equal to a treasure

wow, that really sounds like something a scorpio would say. I have a scorpio cousin who broke the hearts of many girls, by manipulating and using them like things. And when I confront him, he always says: "I made them a favor. They are tougher now".

desperateneptune
07-14-2011, 12:24 PM
lol i am the scorpio here with venus conj pluto nataly but i was the one to suffer the abuse...i have been acting like the happy cinderela all my life until this person showed up and forsed me to "own" my pluto and not give it away so in a twisted sence i owe him a favour!!!!

Venusinlibra
07-17-2011, 03:45 PM
My dear, being a scorpio, u will probably learn the lesson at first. Me, being moon and ascendant cancer, will never learn...

Munch
07-17-2011, 04:36 PM
Pluto/Mars/Saturn...be prepared to bring out the whips and crops. This is heavy and can bring out some sadistic streaks.......but if the overall synastry is loving it could just point to some extremely kinky/domineering stuff.

Venusinlibra
07-17-2011, 05:26 PM
LOL, I want a relationship just like u described, Munch!

CosmicBlyss
07-31-2011, 10:20 AM
as regards these venusian/plutonian relations, i can remember something that robert blaschke, (still with us in spirit) told me:

"Intensity is no equal to intimacy."

Intimacy takes trust and truth and mutual reciprocation. My experience with this man, his pluto opp. my venus lacked all three of these elements.

The depths that this relationship has taken me are staggering. I suppose at some point, perhaps I am already beginning to, I will realize that it did take me deep into my own desires, which revealed an uncomfortable darkness that needed to be exposed and cleansed. That's pluto working.

Nonetheless, to want someone that is so bad for you, who takes you to the depths of despair and humiliation? I'll pass on this one next time!

Post Script*
Thinking about helpful tranists that are helping me move away from this relationship - Transiting Uranus in Aries is conjuncting our composite 8th house moon. Transformation? possibly, but definitely an ending. I think it takes the powerful outer planets Ur-Nep-Pl to bust a couple free or from the Venus-Pluto grip. How people survive this type of relationship is mindboggling. I felt if I was to stay locked into it one more minute, I would go crazy - so much manipulation and power trips by both of us. In fact, I might have gone a bit over the top in my behaviors with him. I think I'll be so grateful I got myself free from it that I won't even be embarrassed by my behaviors working to do it. There's gotta be an easier way. But this is my experience only.

That's really good.
I do believe I chase and pine for the mythical creature known as Intimacy [Juno in Cancer in 8th, square Pluto + a strong Lilith placement] and assume I will find it directly attached to intensity (men that have strong water in their charts who emote feeling (Pisces/Cancer) or generate an aura of feeling (Scorpio) I can connect to/with that definitively snare my attraction)..but real Intimacy is not just experiencing compulsory feelings with/for someone basically on their own..if it's primarily you providing the emotional glue keeping a relationship's pieces together..something inherently required for longevity and fulfillment is missing.

Like, while it may be a basic fact that strong feelings/reactions exist for/with someone, that does not mean that the situation/involvement is actually what you're looking/hoping for (authentic Intimacy) or actually even possible at all (Neptunian illusion/delusion)..particularly if the person on the other end of the personal equation does not/cannot meet you emotionally anywhere near the submerged half way point (if you show/tell/share your "stuff" I'll show you mine, for example - building trust and forging acceptance in the process), let alone follow you or (God forbid..) lead you, all the way to the other side of deep connection/total dissolvement.
"Don't stop - believing" :love: One can only hope.. :p

Marymat
08-02-2011, 01:24 AM
I'm new to astrology, I've always had an interest but never the time. Part of the reason I am looking into it now is because of a bad breakup that I have not been able to get over. In trying to keep myself busy I have made the search for answers much harder.:innocent:

My ex has now gone back to his last girlfriend who was very emotionally and verbally abusive to him. I noticed in their synastry chart that her pluto is square to his venus. From reading this thread this might explain his pull to her.

In our synastry chart, his Venus is sextile to my Pluto. I just noticed that my venus is square to his pluto as well. Can anyone give an opinion to this combination in our synastry?

Claire19
08-02-2011, 02:03 AM
Hello, I was wanting to know if anyone could tell me more about Venus/Pluto contacts in synastry and composite chart? The reason I ask is because I have Venus sextile Pluto and Pluto trine Venus in synastry with someone, and Venus square Pluto in the composite chart. Does anyone else have this going on with someone you know, if so how do you handle it or walk away from it?:confused:
Interesting you brought this up. They are powerful love aspects for sure. Major transformations through finances and or love.....Sometimes there is an obsessive quality even with the easier connections. I wouldnt walk away on the strength of just one aspect.....I have found that easy aspects in synastry can manifest as more difficult ones in composite. Making me think that we shouldn't really place too much emphasis on the nature of contact but just that the contact exists. The composite chart is THE relationship that is created at the third entity and shows the dynamics at play between you and especially as others perceive the relationship....Synastry is interpersonal connections and can be contradictory and confusing..\
.SO although I look at them I place far more emphasis on the composite. THe transits there as well. However the orb of aspect is necessarily smaller than on a natal chart for both synastry and composite. I wouldnt give credence to any more than 3 degrees......

Others may disagree.

Claire19
08-02-2011, 02:06 AM
I'm new to astrology, I've always had an interest but never the time. Part of the reason I am looking into it now is because of a bad breakup that I have not been able to get over. In trying to keep myself busy I have made the search for answers much harder.:innocent:

My ex has now gone back to his last girlfriend who was very emotionally and verbally abusive to him. I noticed in their synastry chart that her pluto is square to his venus. From reading this thread this might explain his pull to her.

In our synastry chart, his Venus is sextile to my Pluto. I just noticed that my venus is square to his pluto as well. Can anyone give an opinion to this combination in our synastry?
Without your charts it is difficult to tell as we have to see the whole picture and integrate it....The areas that these aspects affect is all important. Pluto is a strong magnetic force and no doubt about it. It can lead to unleashing dark passions if not recognised and handled.
So the obsessive quality can be destructive but strangely compelling. He may somehow find the abuse strangely arousing or stimulating. Also unless you witnessed the interplay with him and ex, you are only hearing his side of it, I would suggest. It takes two to tango....and to buy into a situation.....

Claire19
08-02-2011, 02:11 AM
I'm interested in the idea that Venus/Pluto aspects may indicate some kind of karmic tie. My lover and i have Venus oppo Pluto in our composite chart, and we have not been able to end our relationship for 13yrs.

I have a Venus quincunx Pluto in my natal chart (3°) and he has an exact trine Venus/Mars in his natal chart. But i think its our exact Ven/Plu opposition in the composite thats creates attraction pure. It was love at first sight for me. Our first weekend lasted 3 days and 3 nights of nonstop, fu** fest, as if we were starving for each other, and our only break was to fall asleep still bound together.

Its addicting, suffocating, scary, and the jealousy and the fear....but we just can't/won't say good bye, and we've tried.
You describe this aspect perfectly. Venus opposite Pluto. It is compelling and deep and yes it may well be from past association and karmic.....Your quincunx would bear more on an irritation that is chronic, such as a health issue.. That it has lasted so long is significant but why do you want to break away?? Is it a taboo or secret association???
We all have negative and positive to deal with in relationships and very rarely are we always in accord. That is not growth producing.....:smile:

Claire19
08-02-2011, 02:16 AM
Pluto/Mars/Saturn...be prepared to bring out the whips and crops. This is heavy and can bring out some sadistic streaks.......but if the overall synastry is loving it could just point to some extremely kinky/domineering stuff.
That comment is general and as I have Pluto Mars Saturn in connection and involving the 8th house as well. I dont agree that it is necessarily sadistic, cold or cruel in a physical sense always. But karmic, absolutely. THe aspects also affecting these planets elsewhere will tell the whole story..

Marymat
08-02-2011, 02:38 AM
Without your charts it is difficult to tell as we have to see the whole picture and integrate it....The areas that these aspects affect is all important. Pluto is a strong magnetic force and no doubt about it. It can lead to unleashing dark passions if not recognised and handled.
So the obsessive quality can be destructive but strangely compelling. He may somehow find the abuse strangely arousing or stimulating. Also unless you witnessed the interplay with him and ex, you are only hearing his side of it, I would suggest. It takes two to tango....and to buy into a situation.....

This is where I get confused as to how it all ties together. I have read several sticky's but the light isnt coming on.

His venus (12th house) is sextile to my pluto (11th house). My venus (8th) is square to his pluto (2nd).

I dont understand why I havent been able to get past it.

Marymat
08-02-2011, 02:53 AM
Oh and I did witness some things firsthand, as we were aquaintances. Also our kids (his and mine) were in class together so I did meet the girlfriend a few times. After the girlfriend met me a second time he started avoiding me. Later he admitted it was because she didnt like me.

Also a few months after she and I met, she found some texts messages between he and I and got upset. The messages werent inappropriate or anything. I was the class "room mom" at the time and the texts were regarding something the class was doing and needed. Later at 2 am I got a text from her that said "he's (4 letter word)ing me now. How does that make you feel?" When I didnt respond she starting calling my phone so that I could actually hear them doing it. She called another 3 times until they finished and it then he realized what had happened. She's nuts.

I wont put anything past him. He very well may enjoy the drama between them. I will say that he does have tendencies towards depression and low self esteem. He was verbally abused as a child and somewhat neglected.

Marymat
08-02-2011, 03:08 AM
Another story...when she found out that he and I had started dating she began calling him non stop and he ignored her. Finally she sent him a text message saying that she was 4 months pregnant. She had been to the obgyn etc. She was lying, just trying to get him to call her back. She didnt understand why we made "such a big deal over it."

desperateneptune
08-02-2011, 09:49 AM
in venus pluto interactions in synastry is it always the pluto person that manipulates the other or could it be the venus person as well?

Marymat
08-03-2011, 01:31 AM
Does Pluto in retrograde have any effect on the venus-pluto aspect? Natally or in synastry?

FireStarter
09-24-2011, 06:36 PM
This is interesting. What really should be said at some point is that both persons can play the role of rebuilder/destroyer in relationships not by virtue of tendencies carried by signs or ruling planets, but by the individuals themselves.

In this case, I think there is this tendency to believe that the pluto person [un]consciously does all of this destructive work. Is it really just a passing thought in anyone elses mind other than mine, that the internal dynamics that cause this scenario to play out? I have experienced a venus/pluto square, and I am the pluto (in Scorpio) 'vs' the venus (in Leo) and things were the exact opposite of all you are describing.

The venus actually turned out to be the liar and the traitor. Secretive and manipulative, which is not something the pluto in scorpio would allow, for long. And yes in this case, pluto did destroy. Pluto destroyed the facade, a bit of the arrogance and a bit of the egoism, that is before the venus had the chance to destroy pluto completely, which reared its ugly head right after the mask was taken off--big time. The soft, gentleness faded and rude, degrading things showed up. All that was left was a dying flame being fanned by the last breath of sentamentality. I also think the signs of the pluto and venus play a part in this as well. And guess who was really devastated--both of us. I felt like a fool for buying into it even a little, and they felt HORRIBLE for deceiving me. They felt so bad, that I felt bad for them feeling bad and I thought I was wrong. :-(

I don't agree with this notion that "one is sick" and one "is the healer." In my experiences AND in my observations of others--both parties have some "sickness" or lacking that they both feel the need to intuitively fill in the other. Often times, it seems both are looking for something from each other. Both are searching for different things that are somehow interrelated. Love and intimacy, are obviously tied. But how they play out, varies. I have played victim in relationships long enough to know that we must accept our responsibility and our decisions to learn the lessons we learn from complex relationships even when they damage us. This is when we truly become empowered. This is where the regeneration takes place within and with you, perhaps long after that person is gone.

But if you ask the "venus person" they might recall the situation exactly as many of you have stated. Was I trying to "harm" them or remove dignity, in my case no. Did I do it in a harsh, demeaning, hurtful way--not at all. I was extremely forward and direct. But they might very well perceive it that way. As if I was smashing things. I just wanted to truth. It is all about perspective really. I wouldn't go characterize every venus sq. pluto in this way either. I'm not going to go characterize every venus in Leo that way. I try to look at astrology as objectively as possible without allowing 'too many' of my experiences to cloud a balanced outlook of the larger implications.

I think the specific scenarios many have mentioned here do not completely shed light on other synastry aspects or they minimize the importance of other dynamics that might have contributed to the way some of the stories have unfolded. They minimize transits also. I say that to say, some of these sound down right awful, but lets not get into the "oh I experienced this, you experienced that" because we all know astrology is amazingly complex.

And perhaps I am midly offended because I am the pluto person. I am somewhat empathic and have a ton of other 'strange' placements in my chart that make me quite sensitive to relationship dynamics. We all have the power to redirect our regenerative energies. It is really unfair that so many times in the astrology community, we blame things on aspects and predispositions when it really has more to do with personal awareness, self-awareness and self-knowledge (or lack of) that lights the fire so to speak. Everyone is not as 'aware' as others are, so we then began blaming or thinking that it must have been intentional. They knew what they were doing. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. And worse, perhaps they didn't care at all. How much that had to do when synastry...meh, who knows. We like to find meanings for things. But sometimes, we can go to far. Sometimes, we might end up judging other relationships based on these things. Takes the joy out of life, and learning in a way. And the reality is that pain actually teaches us.

So to answer the person above, yes, there are cases where the venus person can play a sort of 'reversed' role so to speak.

MelissaM
09-28-2011, 09:09 PM
in venus pluto interactions in synastry is it always the pluto person that manipulates the other or could it be the venus person as well?

The pluto person as well as the venus person can manipulate each other because both are hypnotized by a strange passion which is difficult to break. This is not love, this is a feeling of passion because both see in each other fascination, intensity and an intimate connection and also when this aspect is involved with neptune.....this connection gets distorted and confused by illusions and a false feeling of love

MelissaM
09-28-2011, 10:11 PM
Every time when transiting venus travels my own sign it goes around my natal sun, pluto, venus and saturn causing on me to be into relationships with guys who also have a venus/pluto aspect natally. I see that transiting venus was conjucting my natal pluto when I felt an intensified feeling for that guy whose pluto was conjuncting my venus...before this venus transit happened, I didn't feel anything special for him, he was not even handsome. Yes, this is very strange to feel something like this with somebody who is not for us.

moonwillow
09-28-2011, 11:33 PM
Agree MelissaM, glad to see you back on this post, as you most probably remember from our previous threads, I was the venus and he was the pluto, additionally I have venus square pluto natally, our synastry his pluto also hit my venus, and my venus hit his pluto, 0 orb. There were other aspects too
like Sun conjunct Pluto and Moon Trine Pluto
and venus conjunct neptune which added Disillusionment to the pot. Saturn also added to the mix, and the aspects or should I say misery, just went on and on
it was a nightmare, and I agree wholeheartedly with what you have articulated.

so glad it is over, I feel the burden has been lifted and I never want to go there again. I avoid him like a plague because it was destructive to both of us, and he could not see that. I have only seen him twice since, and I could sense the anger and resentment from him still. Sad because the relationship was an impossibility and he could not see or accept that. There was also a generational gap, he was relatively older than I was.

It has been a long journey, but I am better off now. I am peace at last.

I hope you have found peace too MelissaM.

Take care
Moonwillow

MelissaM
09-29-2011, 06:47 PM
[QUOTE=moonwillow;318193]Agree MelissaM, glad to see you back on this post, as you most probably remember from our previous threads, I was the venus and he was the pluto, additionally I have venus square pluto natally, our synastry his pluto also hit my venus, and my venus hit his pluto, 0 orb. There were other aspects too
like Sun conjunct Pluto and Moon Trine Pluto
and venus conjunct neptune which added Disillusionment to the pot. Saturn also added to the mix, and the aspects or should I say misery, just went on and on
it was a nightmare, and I agree wholeheartedly with what you have articulated.

so glad it is over, I feel the burden has been lifted and I never want to go there again. I avoid him like a plague because it was destructive to both of us, and he could not see that. I have only seen him twice since, and I could sense the anger and resentment from him still. Sad because the relationship was an impossibility and he could not see or accept that. There was also a generational gap, he was relatively older than I was.

It has been a long journey, but I am better off now. I am peace at last.




Moonwillow , you did good and this shows that you are a strong woman, not many people have the courage to say "no" to this kind of relationship. This older man wanted to take some advantage of you and as a pluto person his intention was to maybe dominate you sexually and psychologically. Now you learnt and you are able to choose a suitable partner for you. Things happen for a reason. You deserve someone good for you. During the time I was absent from this forum, many things happened and I had to deal with it. My anger for him went to the extreme, he betrayed me again and again, he called me me many times to give him a hand and then he did something that made me so angry. During the time he left me to move to another state, he started to mess around with me by sending letters of a fake name to my restaurant address... he kept doing it until I told him if he keeps doing it, I will have to tell his wife about all. He used to persuade me to have sexual fantasies about him and everytime when I told him "noway" he got so mad. Moonwillow, I was living a nightmare with this person, but now he is returning all the stuffs he borrowed from me because he is afraid that I will tell his wife about all the things, his lies. He doesn't accept his mistakes, I believe he doesn't see himself clearly. Bad for him...I don't like when people do such a things, being unfaithful to their partners, . Sad that his wife doesn't know nothing since he knows how to hide everything very well. However I don't want to fight more and I just want to be in peace and learn not to trust easily. We have venus/pluto conjunction aspect and also his pluto conjuncts my sun, his mars conjunct my neptune, my moon sextile to his mars, and we had opposite ascendant/descendant that's why I thought he was the one for me but fortunately we were not meant to be. I just can say "Thank you God"

moonwillow
09-29-2011, 09:59 PM
MelissaM
I feel for you, and yes, you are braver than you know, you have endured much and I know when the storm of emotions settles, you will feel the burden lift from your shoulders and you will find peace.
These aspects are tough and and hopefully by the time we have the courage to turn away we come out of this with more strength and wisdom.
hang in there, the right one is out there for you, someone who will not only love, but respect you. You too deserve someone special, just keep telling yourself that.
and do not lose hope or faith in the human condition. Not every man is that way, there are good men out there, I know this from experience.

You are brave MelissaM, You have taken control of your life again and you are not letting this relationship define the rest of your life.....There is such an EMPOWERMENT in that concept.
Chin up, walk with your head up and know that you are survivor, there is also empowerment in knowing that too
Take Care
and god bless

Moonwillow

MelissaM
09-30-2011, 01:12 AM
Thank you for your beautiful words moonwillow :) make me have tears in my eyes for being blessed of not going too far. We are good persons and we will be blessed for having someone who is good for us. Yes I have a lot of faith, since I am a scorpio moon woman, I am a very loyal person and spiritual. I am very happy for making him to apologize and know himself... now I am feeling a little sad but a brand new person :)

moonwillow
09-30-2011, 01:34 AM
That's my girl MelissaM!

Moonwillow

anisha_Astrology
09-30-2011, 04:51 AM
does a person who has his moon in sagittarius never stands up for himself and is emotionally bankrupt? i am just curious. by the waty this is a good way to interact with people interested in astrology.

FireStarter
10-01-2011, 12:54 PM
It's critically important how the two people manifest the energies in a Venus-Pluto situation. Yes, it can manifest in power plays, manipulation, debasement, and humiliation. But it doesn't have to be. I find value in exploring the depths and heights of the human soul with my love interests. But less plutonic-type people might dislike this intensity, or not be able to handle it. For some people, though, it's the highest path to take.


I don't know how I missed this before, but I think this is right on the money!

I say that to say, I hope everyone recovers from what they view has a negative relationship and a humiliating interaction, regardless of the synastry.

At some point we all think of soulmates, sometimes, as these glamorous beings coming to complete us, when really our soulmates are here to teach us. And, some of the lessons we are taught (and we choose to learn, because sometimes we 'choose' to stay in the relationship) are VERY difficult and hurt a lot. This is less about synastry and aspects, and more about spiritual evolution and growth...but they are all interconnected, really.

I've learned my lessons in reclaiming myself worth, being humiliated..etc. And as much as they hurt, I wouldn't trade them for the world, because EVERY relationship is a lesson and I had to learn them. And I had to learn (though I already knew by virtue of my person) that I never want to treat anyone that way. It is so simple for the 'shoe to be on the other foot' and for the tables to turn, and one has to ask "what will will I do with my keen awareness of the dynamics of this relationship/person/situation." Life will test our resolve and our person, I've witnessed it first hand. If I can't use my passion, intimacy and intensity with another person as a way to help someone and bring them to a higher state of love and evolution, I'd rather be alone. I've always felt this way, and I've always held to it.

As mentioned before, it is ultimately up to us to be consciously aware of the dynamics of our relationships and set the standard. I heard a quote that says "God determines who comes into your life, you determine who stays." We are human. We all become vulnerable, hurt and reach low points. But we have to be strong and full of courage. These things come to evolve our person, our personality and our spirit as well--we are all proof of that fact, for better. Wishing strength to you all.

FireStarter
10-01-2011, 01:07 PM
Venus pluto aspects have a lot of lessons to give even if you are the one to suffer the abusive behaviour..they make you stand up for yourself or else you ll be eaten alive...at the end you have gained a valuable experience equal to a treasure

So many relationships and dynamics come into our lives that are like this. And if you are a peace loving, compassion person, you will be less likely to do it (trust me, I know, I have strong Libra placements). But these relationships, even if it is a brief one or a platonic one--they will make you stand up for yourself and eventually say enough is enough. That is the learning part of the lesson, really...right? When you say 'no more' and choose joy. I find that reclamation to be empowering. So I focus on that, as opposed to the pain, hurt...etc. I let the wound breathe, feel the sting, dress it again, and try to continue healing and moving forward, applying the lessons to my life and how to be a stronger person.

moonwillow
10-01-2011, 02:54 PM
Firestarter, Nicely Said, there is alot of empowerment and courage in saying, THIS HURTS...and now its enough,

I like this " let the wound breathe, feel the sting, dress it again, and try to continue healing and moving forward, applying the lessons to my life and how to be a stronger person.... "Firestarter"

I have had to do this alot in my life, my eighth house placements and scorpio rising have endowed me with much trials and tribulations, and I have had to stand up and fight..for myself, my integrity as a human being...and say "I am enough"

but I have not been able to articulate thisas well as you have printed here...If you don't mind, I would like to use this.

I agree,Venus/pluto placements don't have to be that way, but I think those of us who attract these people, they (those men) tend to have as many battle scars as we do, we seem to unconsciously attract each other, until you or one of you takes the intiative and stops / breaks the cycle.

And that too is difficult, because we plutonic people respond to these attractions like magnet, the pull, the powerful intense feelings we have when we are around them, because unconciously we crave those feelings, it feels like a need, and intense desire, almost a hunger, even if you are aware of how destructive it most probably will be.

I might be talking for myself, because that's how it has been for me, and it took alot of hard lessons to learn to break that cycle, and just say, this is enough...let the healing begin, because I want peace now

To all of you my fellow plutonic kindred souls

my sincerest and best wishes to all

Moonwillow

LoveThyStar
10-01-2011, 03:00 PM
The worst love relationship in my life was Pluto Square Venus in Synastry.
oK, there was another "nice" aspect - Moon square Saturn.

blueskye
10-01-2011, 08:42 PM
I think it's safe to say that the entire relationship shouldn't be judged by this one aspect. . . BUT, I've been both the venus person and the pluto person in different relationships, and it *****. I haven't noticed a difference between being represented by either planet except the venus person seems to get hurt worse. What I have noticed is this aspect can cause impotence or frigidity at times (not always) and sometimes unrequited love. Most of my relationships have this aspect and they are always karmic (lots of saturn aspects too). This aspect is usually just a drop in the bucket of stuff needing to be worked out. Besides, you don't want your relationship to have all harmonious aspects, you'd be so bored! Everyone needs a little spice. I would say that if you have more pleasant aspects than challenging, that's a good sign.

FireStarter
10-02-2011, 02:51 PM
Use away Moonwillow! Glad you found it helpful! :biggrin:

I have a south node in Scorpio (8th house), so I've been through the fire, so to speak and now I'm walking across hot coals--it seems like.

But I know the value in these lessons, not just for me, but for those around me. So I approach it in that way!

Sweet Pea
10-09-2011, 04:30 PM
There is no peace of mind in such relationships. There is icy pain switching to fiery ecstacy and back... repeatedly.

I think there are issues around exclusivity. People in these relationships need to fully possess the other, heart and soul and mind and emotions...and let no-one else or any other pre-occupation dare get in the way...or it's curtains! (Until the ice thaws out again and then the fire builds up and you are back in the mad, crazy, 24/7 compulsion all over again.)

If it's karmic, then you have to find a way to release it even after the relationship is over, finished with, kaput. There will still be etheric ties - chains - hooks - cords - between you, even across distances, while some smidgin of emotion remains in respect of the finished relationship. Peace of mind is letting go whatever they did to you. You must neither love nor hate them. You must be careless, indifferent, nonchalant, blithe....and really, not just as the fake show that we sometimes put on.

Then when your life is over, there is no remaining emotional "stuff" that otherwise would draw them into your reality for yet another go, next time around.

:happy:
.

FireStarter
10-10-2011, 01:26 AM
You must neither love nor hate them. You must be careless, indifferent, nonchalant, blithe....and really, not just as the fake show that we sometimes put on.


:andy:

But is this really growth, SweetPea (lol, feels funny calling you that darlin)? In fact, perhaps being this way will ensure they will be back. They say indifference is worse than hate.

Perhaps, we should examine what we mean by 'love.' What our definition of love is. It is something that can be expressed in a way that is free without idealization and romanticizing it. It is something that is greater than compulsion and obsession. That is what we should work towards. I'm not sure numbing is where we should 'want' to go, even if we must go there momentarily.

Been there, done that before, then something will happen and remind of you of hurt, of pain. And life, boy oh boy. Then it will really make you get to what is essential and find out what true healing is.

Sweet Pea
10-10-2011, 08:20 AM
FireStarter - that place of indifference is not numbing at all, actually. It's a higher-up place where you can observe how the game was played, how and why you were attracted and sucked in, how energy was exchanged, how it all went wrong (though in the long term right), and how you are now so much more self-aware.

Depending on your natal chart, the game will be played again, in another time, another place and another person. But each time, the game is shortened because of what's gone before and because you are now a conscious rather than an unconscious player. The characters are fooled, manipulated and coerced less quickly. The ice and fire both move towards the centre point where sparks cannot fly so freely. The dampening down is reached far quicker.

:lol:
.

*emma*
10-10-2011, 10:52 PM
venus pluto is to do with sexuality and control, or devotion if other aspects help, its up to the 2 people to sort it out

Fulcrum
11-07-2011, 04:03 AM
FireStarter - that place of indifference is not numbing at all, actually. It's a higher-up place where you can observe how the game was played, how and why you were attracted and sucked in, how energy was exchanged, how it all went wrong (though in the long term right), and how you are now so much more self-aware.

Depending on your natal chart, the game will be played again, in another time, another place and another person. But each time, the game is shortened because of what's gone before and because you are now a conscious rather than an unconscious player. The characters are fooled, manipulated and coerced less quickly. The ice and fire both move towards the centre point where sparks cannot fly so freely. The dampening down is reached far quicker.

:lol:
.

Beautifully stated.

I've just spent the last two years assimilating what I learned from a toxic relationship with a hardcore Scorpio (Sun, Mercury, Ascendant, Uranus and the North Node there, all but Uranus in I House). Her Venus and Pluto are conjunct in Libra XI; my Venus is in Taurus XI and my Pluto in Virgo II. My Sun and Mercury are in Aries X with Cancer rising (and the Moon very conjunct, technically in XII but I'm inclined to interpret it as being in I).

Between us, my Venus stood in applying quincunx to her Pluto (her Venus did not reciprocate) in the synastry; in the composite, we had a separating sextile between the two, and in the combined a separating opposition. (I use Kairon to draw these charts, and am not quite sure whether by a combined chart they mean a Davison.)

I don't consciously play games with people, but she does—willingly admits it, and admitted it to me more than once. Never thought she was playing a game with me until I was out of the relationship and saw that it had become a lie centered around the three words I don't think anyone should ever lie about: I love you.

There was love there, until there just wasn't: she'd moved on to another partner. Although to hear her tell it now, it hadn't been; she is probably covering up for letting me get so far under her skin, and portions of her natal chart would bear that out (although I'm not going to post it here). She was very able to flush me out from under there once the thing became a lie. It took me a **** sight longer to get her out and to tell her once and for all to go pound sand.

The thing is, she's still trying haphazardly to get me back in her life. She found me on Google+ and added me to one of her circles. I added her back on Facebook, but I don't allow her to post on my wall and I don't get any updates from hers, because I am indifferent to her and her life now because of the hurt she inflicted. I'm wondering why the hell I did that.

I note that most of the Scorpios I know have a copy of The Art Of War stashed somewhere in their libraries. And of course one of the more famous quotes contained therein is "Keep your friends close... and your enemies closer."

But a huge part of that relationship, while it was good, and even for a while after it wasn't, was the depth of spiritual exploring we both did. The talk was mostly centered around her—she was quite a narcissist and for all I know still is—but in the talking I arrived at a few truths about myself too.

Another huge part of it was music: we were trying to write songs together. There were quite a few nights (like Simon and Garfunkel sang about) wherein we harmonized till dawn, and quite well, too. I can't say I don't miss that about us, or think about the songs that'll never be written now. And I think that creative art has something to do with Venus-Pluto, too.

I'm currently very interested in a woman with whom I share a Venus-Pluto trine (she's the Venus). And yes, one of the major points of discussion between us when we see one another is: spiritual exploring. I see other aspects in the chart that disturb me a little, but more that give me hope. There's a deep attraction here that neither of us is ready to confess to the other, which I think we've established as a hallmark of this aspect. I don't think I'm going to post her chart just yet (mine's here somewhere) as I'm not 100% sure of her birth time (I took a few educated guesses based on things she remembered from her own chart).

zoiya
05-02-2012, 08:57 PM
Hi. I'm new. This is the one aspect that made me really believe in astrology because of the intensity. All over the web, in various forums people ask the same questions-who feels it more? which one is sick? I've read them all because I have it with someone in synastry(square) (I'm venus/he's pluto on a 1'orb) my pluto square his venus but the orb's a bit bit large (4') and we have it in the composite and draconic. It's really really painful and very hard to let go of.

whatthefolks
09-03-2012, 03:29 PM
I am extremely obsessed and attracted to this guy. I have no idea if the feeling is mutual. All I know is that his Pluto is sextile my Venus and that in our composite chart we have Venus square Pluto.

Him and I have no Venus/Pluto aspects in our natal charts.

His sun and mars both are trine my pluto.

What could this possibly mean?

I'd like to blame my venus/pluto aspects with him for the obsession i feel for him even though he currently lives miles and miles away.

MelissaM
09-04-2012, 02:36 AM
Well, from my experience, i learnt not to look for this kind of relationship. After being with a terrible relationship with a guy who was conjuncting his pluto with my venus, i went through a hard time learning to be selective about who is worth of my time. Now the planet saturn is transiting my venus,sun,saturn and i really thanks this time of my life because i know what i want now, a venus/ pluto aspect in a partner and mine will only cause drama, frustration because there is always something that dont allow us to be together,sometimes the pluto person is too jealous and possessive or there is always hidden inside this person, the venus person will feel obsession as well and this hurts a lot, i just dont want to feel what this kind of relationship causes me again. Now I am happy being out of this and I want someone without this venus/pluto aspect.

whatthefolks
09-04-2012, 07:41 PM
But could other aspects overrule or subdue it?

I mean his Venus is trine my Venus.
Our suns are sextile
Our mars are conjunct
Our saturns are sextile
Our jupiters are trine

And in the composite chart we do have sun conjunct venus.

Like how would you know if the venus/pluto could be over powered by good aspects? I guess I will never be satisfied.

MelissaM
09-04-2012, 10:40 PM
whatthefolk, tell me about your north nodes, in what sign is his north node and yours? Do you know his exact time of birth and location? or you only know his birthdate? This is always better to get his birth certificate and go to the www.astro.com (http://www.astro.com/) and get a correct synastry chart and composite. When you read the synastry chart, you must read it with the transits, that way, you can foresee where this relationship will go.

Lovely venus trine venus, the romance is there, very nice when you both are interacting, mars trine pluto brings competition as well as an extreme feeling of passion and sexual intensity... the more you interact with him, you will want to be with him more and more but be careful with this aspect because you both have to feel a mutual trust between each other, if there is trust issue, you won't feel at ease by having this mars-pluto aspect. He should bring you confidence, his real self to you in order to give this relationship an "A" you both have to talk more, to see if he is into you. If you are looking for marriage not only a romance, just look if you both have a conjunct aspect between the north node and vertex point, this one is a strong indicator for marriage even when he is very far away :) the sun/moon midpoint is also good to check if this midpoint makes a hard aspect to his personal planet: sun, moon, because this means that it is a karmic relationship and something you both must do in this lifetime (this is the same as meeting your soulmate) or you already met this person in your previous life and you both made a deal to be together in this lifetime and must work on it. Well, your obsession comes from his mars and sun trining your pluto more than the venus/pluto aspect (this one helps too )

This article is good to read for you: http://theastrologyplace.blogspot.com/2012/01/mars-pluto-synastry.html (http://theastrologyplace.blogspot.com/2012/01/mars-pluto-synastry.html)

whatthefolks
09-05-2012, 06:23 AM
whatthefolk, tell me about your north nodes, in what sign is his north node and yours? Do you know his exact time of birth and location? or you only know his birthdate? This is always better to get his birth certificate and go to the www.astro.com (http://www.astro.com/) and get a correct synastry chart and composite. When you read the synastry chart, you must read it with the transits, that way, you can foresee where this relationship will go.

Lovely venus trine venus, the romance is there, very nice when you both are interacting, mars trine pluto brings competition as well as an extreme feeling of passion and sexual intensity... the more you interact with him, you will want to be with him more and more but be careful with this aspect because you both have to feel a mutual trust between each other, if there is trust issue, you won't feel at ease by having this mars-pluto aspect. He should bring you confidence, his real self to you in order to give this relationship an "A" you both have to talk more, to see if he is into you. If you are looking for marriage not only a romance, just look if you both have a conjunct aspect between the north node and vertex point, this one is a strong indicator for marriage even when he is very far away :) the sun/moon midpoint is also good to check if this midpoint makes a hard aspect to his personal planet: sun, moon, because this means that it is a karmic relationship and something you both must do in this lifetime (this is the same as meeting your soulmate) or you already met this person in your previous life and you both made a deal to be together in this lifetime and must work on it. Well, your obsession comes from his mars and sun trining your pluto more than the venus/pluto aspect (this one helps too )

This article is good to read for you: http://theastrologyplace.blogspot.com/2012/01/mars-pluto-synastry.html (http://theastrologyplace.blogspot.com/2012/01/mars-pluto-synastry.html)

Thank you so much!! I will read it. What if my sun is sextile his Venus? How will that affect him?

My north node is in Scorpio. I don't know what time he was born. I'm pretty sure he won't know either. He lives in an impoverished area that doesn't have birth cerificates. People there don't even know their birthdays sometimes.

I also know my sun is square his pluto. He is really shy and not the easiest to carry a conversation with but he for some reason makes me feel confident like you said. I always talk to him and kind of push his social buttons because he's usually sitting in a corner kind of hiding.

The longer I've known him the more obsessed I get. I've been to his home town in Nicaragua two times. The first time I realized I felt like I was in love. Then the following summer I returned and it was such a strong feeling.

He is usually very shy and doesn't like to meet many new people. He also works a lot and is usually authoratative with younger people.

Since I am a couple of years older than him he seems to respect me. And he acts really submissive towards me. Like he always listens to what I say and he does what I say too. I also noticed a lot of exchanged smiles and with another person in my group who tried to say "Hi" to him and he completely ignored him. He always says hi to me though. I am just mesmerized by him and I just want to figure him out.

If it helps he's a cancer I think a capricorn moon, Leo mercury, Gemini Venus, cancer mars, pisces Jupiter and Taurus Saturn, Aquarius Uranus and Neptune and a sag Pluto.

I am a Virgo sun, cancer moon, Virgo mercury, libra Venus, cancer mars, Scorpio Jupiter, and a Pisces Saturn, cap Uranus and Neptune, and a Scorpio Pluto.

I mean you don't have to analyze it all if you don't want. Just putting it out there.

MelissaM
09-06-2012, 07:12 PM
Thank you so much!! I will read it. What if my sun is sextile his Venus? How will that affect him?

My north node is in Scorpio. I don't know what time he was born. I'm pretty sure he won't know either. He lives in an impoverished area that doesn't have birth cerificates. People there don't even know their birthdays sometimes.

I also know my sun is square his pluto. He is really shy and not the easiest to carry a conversation with but he for some reason makes me feel confident like you said. I always talk to him and kind of push his social buttons because he's usually sitting in a corner kind of hiding.

The longer I've known him the more obsessed I get. I've been to his home town in Nicaragua two times. The first time I realized I felt like I was in love. Then the following summer I returned and it was such a strong feeling.

He is usually very shy and doesn't like to meet many new people. He also works a lot and is usually authoratative with younger people.

Since I am a couple of years older than him he seems to respect me. And he acts really submissive towards me. Like he always listens to what I say and he does what I say too. I also noticed a lot of exchanged smiles and with another person in my group who tried to say "Hi" to him and he completely ignored him. He always says hi to me though. I am just mesmerized by him and I just want to figure him out.

If it helps he's a cancer I think a capricorn moon, Leo mercury, Gemini Venus, cancer mars, pisces Jupiter and Taurus Saturn, Aquarius Uranus and Neptune and a sag Pluto.

I am a Virgo sun, cancer moon, Virgo mercury, libra Venus, cancer mars, Scorpio Jupiter, and a Pisces Saturn, cap Uranus and Neptune, and a Scorpio Pluto.

I mean you don't have to analyze it all if you don't want. Just putting it out there.

It is preferable to check the distance in degrees when calculating aspects such as the venus/pluto aspect, the closer these two are in degrees the more you feel the energy of this aspect. I am guessing that your venus is in Libra 25 degrees but his pluto is in Sag around 00 degrees, which means that this aspect is not too powerful on your synastry chart. The energy would have been felt if he had sag 24, 25 or 26 degrees.

Since I was looking at your pluto and north node, I see that you both are still teenagers... maybe I am wrong. You were born in 1994 and he was born in 1996, but actually I think that his information is wrong, if you state that he is a capricorn moon, maybe he was born around July 1st or 2nd 1996, however his mercury, venus and mars would be in Gemini, his north node in libra. I rely on your sun/pluto aspect for understanding your obsession about him, all what you described say a lot about a sun/pluto aspect which is square. When one of your personal planets is touched by his pluto with a very close degree, means that you are fascinated about him at some point. A sun square pluto aspect means power struggles, but everything is possible in this life, you can work on that for good. For a relationship, this is good to have some squares aspects (challenges) in order to make the relationship dynamic. Dont know why people only look for soft aspects in a relationship, the soft aspects doesnt bring any challenge or effort in a relationship, only friendship.

MelissaM
09-06-2012, 07:20 PM
This article is preferable for you to read: http://theastrologyplace.blogspot.com/2011/02/sun-pluto-in-synastry.html
http://www.dxpnet.com/opinion/astrology/Sun-Pluto-in-Synastry-2346583.asp

This article is also helpful when you are looking for something more in a relationship:
http://darkstarastrology.com/best-synastry-aspects/

Akyana
11-09-2013, 10:46 AM
I am atm in Venus - Pluto relationship,
and it feels like my soul is being teared appart...
not in a good way.

But I do not have really where to go.
The best option is the street and to hope for the best.
But somewhere deep down it seem to be better option, than to stay with him
somewhere else though, I still hope somehow it will get better:sad:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a351/Anetaka/a5dfb96e-f9d2-4381-87f6-3af853a8ed78_zpsb68beedf.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/Anetaka/media/a5dfb96e-f9d2-4381-87f6-3af853a8ed78_zpsb68beedf.jpg.html)


http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a351/Anetaka/ed1d934b-f6e9-43a5-bea5-03ca21592beb_zpsa975680f.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/Anetaka/media/ed1d934b-f6e9-43a5-bea5-03ca21592beb_zpsa975680f.jpg.html)