Who's Who? An Astrological Exploration.

[Draco]

I thought that this would be both fun and interesting.

Here I provide the charts of four people, all of whom have fame (or infamy) at various levels. All of these nativites belong to men, three are American, one is Canadian. Three of the men are still living, one is now dead. The data is considered to be highly accurate, none of the charts are based upon rectified or estimated birth times, so you can rely on the data.

This is all the information you have to go on:

One of these charts belongs to a serial killer.

One is the nativity of an adult movie star.

One is the horoscope of a spiritualist medium, who also became a successful writer on the subject.

One chart is that of a famous athlete, one of the most famous in his field.

The idea is to identify who of these very different people is who, according to the chart provided.

You may wish to concentrate on only one chart, and give your opinion as to who you think this belongs to and your reasonings as to why. You may wish to attempt to judge between all the charts, considering who you think is who and detailing your justifications as to why this would be.

The objective of the exercise is not to 'guess' who is who, but to 'judge' who is who, according to whatever methods you may utilise in order to draw your conclusion. It will be interesting to see how each person goes about this.
Please don't hesitate to have a go at this through fear of being wrong, getting it right isn't the main objective of the exercise. This should turn out to be interesting, so please have a go.

I must point out that if you happen to know who any of these people are because you happen to be familiar with the charts, please do not give the answer away or drop hints like bombs. This is unfair on me for putting the effort into doing this, and upon those who wish to have a sincere attempt at this. I trust everyone here is mature enought to see the sense in this.

To satisfy a majority, I have drawn the charts in Placidus, and included the personal and transpersonal planets only.

Seriously, please don't give these charts away or drop any hints at all, or cheat in any way, just have a good, honest attempt.

If you think you know who a chart belongs to, please don't declare it! The idea is to match a chart to what the person is known for, not to drop names that will influence other peoples decisions!

I look forward to seeing how this thread progresses. The objective of the exercise isn't to be correct, it more to do with observing the techniques that each other utilises in order to determine who the person is.

I think I'll leave it a couple of weeks or so before revealing who the people are. This allows a good number of people to have a go, and allows for the development of some interesting discussion and debate. Remember to give a detailed observation of why you associate a particular chart with a particular person, so we can obtain insight and inspiration from each others ideas.
Please join in. Do not hesitate and have faith in yourself, even if you have never explored a nativity beofre or lack confidence (I know I do).

I have selected charts that do not depict aspect lines. Rather, the aspects are depicted around the edge of the wheel. This is because opinions upon aspect orbs differ, but with the exact location of the aspects depicted around the wheel, you can decide upon your aspects being as wide or as tight as you see fit, without a criss-cross of lines dictating whether two planets are in aspect or not, this is up to you. If you are somehow unclear as to how to read the aspect wheel, ask.

Here are the horoscopes:

Chart #1

http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/7773/mystery1bw8.gif (http://imageshack.us)

Chart #2

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/7465/mystery2ah4.gif (http://imageshack.us)

Chart #3

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/4783/mystery3jn1.gif (http://imageshack.us)

Chart #4

http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/7098/mystery4la6.gif (http://imageshack.us)

Remember, we're looking for a serial killer, an adult movie star, a spiritualist medium and an outstanding athlete.

Enjoy! :)

[Arian Maverick]

Before attempting to judge the charts, I am going to brainstorm some characteristics I believe each type of person would possess:

Serial killer:

Key Words and Ideas: aggressiveness, brutality, need to feel power over others, predator vs. prey mentality, cunning, possible issues with authority (may enjoy "leaving clues" to taunt investigators), enacting revenge, addicted to adrenaline rush, may enjoy planning murders and escape routes

Astrological influences that immediately come to mind: Afflicted Mars/Pluto

An adult movie star:

Key Words and Ideas: enjoys the spotlight, expressive, possibly craves attention and fame

Astrological influences that immediately come to mind: Leo, planets in the tenth house

A spiritualist medium:

Key Words and Ideas: attuned to higher energies, not completely grounded/focussed in the physical world

Astrological influences that immediately come to mind: Strong Pisces/Neptune emphasis, planets in the water elements, planets in the eighth house

Outstanding athlete

Key Words and Ideas: extremely disciplined, physically active and strong

Astrological influences that immediately come to mind: Aries/Mars

Mystery Person #1:

Mars tightly conjunct Virgo Ascendant

Tight Sun/Venus conjunction in Cancer in the ninth house (trines Mars and squares Saturn)

Moon conjunct Leo Midheaven (Moon square Jupiter; Saturn sextile Midheaven, Part of Fortune trine Midheaven)

South Node conjunct Pluto

All of these charts supposedly belong to a famous person, yet this one particularly indicate themes of fame and power to me, and the possible abuse of it. The North Node is located in Aquarius in the fourth house; clearly, this person has a spiritual goal to focus less upon the limelight and the outside world of fame and prestige in order to retreat into an inner world focussed more upon community than self. However, his Leo Moon conjunct the Midheaven seems to indicate an emotional need to be held in high regard and prestige and approaching a conjunction with Pluto, he may very well feel emotional security through the power of fame. The Sun and the Moon are in mutual reception, Pluto is exalted in Leo, Saturn is exalted in Libra, Mars is in the sign of its rulership in Scorpio, and although Jupiter rules Pisces and Sagittarius and is exalted in Cancer, I have often mused that the greater benefic seems pretty comfortable in Taurus. This is quite a lot of power to reckon with.

I initially guessed this chart to belong to the adult movie star, but the first house Mars in Scorpio conjunct the Ascendant is such a stereotypical serial killer aspect that I am now doubting my intuition and reasoning. Yet it does not appear to be badly aspected; indeed, Mars receives a beautiful trine from a tight Sun/Venus conjunction. As Tim would undoubtedly note, the majority of the planets are in the upper hemisphere, and I just do not see the brutality of a killer--there appears to be too much creativity. Although I suppose as one of the old astrology joke threads indicated, this person could make beautiful art out of the remains of his victims! :p

Seriously, I immediately thought of foreign travel with a ninth house stellium, and I think that a famous actor would have many opportunities to visit strange lands while filming on the various sets of his movies.

Mystery Person #2:

As soon as I saw the eighth house stellium of Mystery Person 2's chart, I immediately thought it belonged to the psychic. I will undoubtedly feel foolish when Draco reveals the chart belongs to the serial killer instead, yet Pluto is conjunct the Sun and Mercury to boot, and the Sun-Mercury conjunction appears to be at a critical degree! Actually, this may very well be the serial killer because the Venus/Uranus conjunction makes me think of strange sexual fetishes of a darker nature--perhaps this person, if he is not the spiritual medium, raped his victims before killing them? Mars may be in its detriment in Taurus, but I think it's a bit ominous that the planet is tightly conjunct the fifth house cusp and appears to form a loose square aspect with Uranus and an even looser square aspect with Venus. I might be thinking too much in terms of horary, but I also don't like that the Part of Fortune is conjunct the Nadir in Aries--it makes me think that he has the ability to conceal the evidence of murder. Its opposition to tenth house Jupiter makes me think that he presents himself in a jovial manner that is much different from his true inner nature. The Moon is conjunct the Ascendant from its dark side, so I question his ability to keep his emotions in check. It is located in the sign of Sagittarius, true, but I don't like Saturn in the house of its joy exerting its influence upon the Moon. If I am wrong, it will be interesting to see exactly how vivid my imagination is! :D

As I was studying this chart some more, I regret to say that I am yet again waffling back and forth between the psychic and the serial killer! Jupiter is loosely conjunct Neptune, two planets that tie into Pisces through traditional or modern rulership. Also, Jupiter's conjunction with the North Node looks familiar in the a chart I was studying the other day of a psychic/spiritual medium--I won't mention a name although I do not think it is the same chart, in respect for Draco's rules. I will note that out of the four charts in this thread, this one definitely looks the most psychic, but then which chart belongs to the serial killer? I suppose it is back to the drawing board...

Arian Maverick

[Draco]

Some very interesting comments there Mav to get the thread rolling.

You have mentioned two things that really are quite significant, but I won't yet tell you what, as it might make it too easy, but some good observations!

It will be interesting to see how this develops. ;)

EDIT:

You've added in some even more interesting comments now Mav. I'm dying to let you know where you are right on and where you are going off track, but I don't want to prejudice the input that others may deliver, or make it too obvious who is who, and there's probably many other's that would like a go at this, so my lips are firmly sealed for now. Some nice observations though.

[Neptune Rising]

Mystery person 1, or 4 may be the serial killer. I'd veer more towards person 1. The Mars in Scorpio conjunct Ascendant makes me think that. And Pluto near the top in the 10th house. So maybe they would square each other? Creating conflict??

Hahaha, I have Mars/Sag in the 1st house, Pluto/Libra conjunct the MC! I can be quite forceful at times, have never harmed anyone physically though! :D

Neptune

[Arian Maverick]

Does anyone have any insight about chart #3 and #4? The twelfth house Pluto conjunct Part of Fortune grabs my attention, as does the sixth house Moon-Mercury conjunction in Aquarius and Venus' conjunction with the Descendant, but no specific picture has been painted in my mind. The most significant observation I have made about chart #4 is the mutual reception between Mars in Pisces and Jupiter in Aries, both of which are conjunct in the seventh house. I've read that Mars and Jupiter can be a dangerous combination, but I would think that a mutual reception would be beneficial. I am also baffled by the astrological paradox that of Saturn in Aries opposite Libra North Node; my father has a similar one in his chart of Capricorn North Node conjunct Capricorn Moon, and I cannot get my mind around it! Speaking of paradoxes, Neptune is also in the first house in Virgo and squares fourth house Mercury in Sagittarius, the sign of its detriment. It also just recently occurred to me that Venus and Uranus are in mutual reception using modern rulership, although I am a bit uncertain as to what this means... :confused:

Arian Maverick

[Draco]

Again, my lips are firmly sealed for the time being. :)

Hehe, this is fun.

[tsquare]

Im a very new beginer but Id be willing to throw out a guess at number 2 as the spiritualistic medium with the nicely aspected planets in the 8H the sun there as well, part of fortune on the IC in 4h trines sun, moon, mercury.
I like how the sun moon and mercury aspects the assendent as well.
jupiter in the 10H is a good place as well in libra for a guru the oposition to the IC and part of fortune tells me he may have had some conflicting energies will his inner and outer worlds like identifying with his fame or something mabie a pride issue as far as "Im the greatest since everybody seems to agree with me" and may have taken advantage of it early on, but the sextiles to the sun, moon, and mercury may have helped cool that off easy, as well as the sextile to pluto in the 8H.
Pluto in scorpio indicates this too me as well being in the 8H. ocult sciences regeneration and such.

Then again.......with the sun siting right on top of mercury in retrograde like that I dont know..... cmbust?

I heard somewhere that retrogrades may compell the individual to further express that planet in some way though as well and being in the 8H with that uranus opposed mars I bet he felt obliged to get his message across somehow yet the restricion of being forced into this role somehow....
mabie being born into it or something like he wants to be free of it yet he doesnt. family strugles or something.....mabie a loss of Homeland?.

Saturn in the 12th may indicate a metaphsical teacher of sorts someone who can easily adapt to inner solitude, and move toward karmic completions and liberation. Probably has a good family lineage.

Moon in the 12th another indication of liking or being liked by solitude and with Saturn in the house to help that house out and all of the moons pleasent aspects as well I would say he has alot of suport in viewing the world from a detatched sort of "dream" view. he's probably idealistic of metaphisical studies and its place in the world and has gathered alot of "stuff" ideas and such from former teachers as well. and he doesnt interact with the public that much yet likes it every once in a while.

there's other stuff as well....but overall I'd say he's the spiritual dude.
probably gets along with the ladies alright too.:)
then again this may be the guy that knocks on your door with an axe so I dont know.....
Im waiting to be the prime example of the guy who thinks all these trines and sextiles are just so "positive".:o
Im extremely interested being a beginer of sorts to see the results.
The more I look the more I cant tell one way or the other far any of them.:confused:
Great idea for a post!:)
----------------------------
Tsquare
I thought I was the first poster. Im slow

[Neptune Rising]

The most significant observation I have made about chart #4 is the mutual reception between Mars in Pisces and Jupiter in Aries, both of which are conjunct in the seventh house. I've read that Mars and Jupiter can be a dangerous combination, but I would think that a mutual reception would be beneficial.

I too thought this would lead to some sort of expansive expression of agression, but then since Mars was in Pisces, would that expansive energy be more loving? In the 7th house of relationships/open enemies?!:D Are they one and the same??! :D

Neptune

[tsquare]

Arian Maverick
Does anyone have any insight about chart #3 and #4?

chart 4
I dont like that sun moon jupiter tsquare....although the orbs are wide.
and with mars and jupiter as close as they are conj I also dont like that
neptune mercury jupiter tsquare.
I usually dont mind neptune in the firstH but in virgo I dont like.
that grand trine between Venus, moon, and Midheaven looks odd and so does
the assendent uranus and sun grand trine.

The main thing that bothers me about chart 4 is the moon in libra in house2
square sun in in the fourth house whic is home life type stuff, and its opposition to jupiter in the seventhH.

Im sniffing out a bad childhood here I think mabie trouble with relationships later on in life also.
with that trine between venus and moon and midheaven in there houses.........
at first I m thinking actor or artist with that venus im thinkin suduction and ability to be creative since in aquarius and then trine moon and midheaven.
but Im not sure how to figure in that moon trine with venus.
then im thinking murder dude.
I dont know how to figure the retrogrades like
neptune, pluto, and uranus
I also dont know what that lilltle -d- behind the true nod means is that dignity or detriment or neither?

I think those retrogrades play a big part in this chart somehow but dont know how. something makes me cringe about this chart yet dont know what.
Mabie its just me not knowing yet.:)

[tsquare]

I too thought this would lead to some sort of expansive expression of agression, but then since Mars was in Pisces, would that expansive energy be more loving? In the 7th house of relationships/open enemies?!:D Are they one and the same??! :D
Neptune Rising

I dont think Pisces always means more loving. Pisces can at times be feisty and fiery more so then a cancer anyhow.
I dont see how mars and piscies would be good but I dont know.
Mars seems to be impuse outward motion Fire. then piscies as a sign seems inflow thought and emotion, like an dispersal only inward.
like where pisces seems to be more about pulling in thought and emotion like water catching leaves. it seems that mars is strait out outflow I am.

I see someone thats a little frustrated in that seventh house, and i wonder
how happy is that jupiter and mars in the seventh if they oppose neptune in the first. and what about retrograde neptune. mabie a sence of not knowing how others percieve him?

with that moon in libra I see someone who doesnt like conflict its someone who needs harmony but I dont know if he gets it here with those aspects to the 4th and 7th houses.
His part of fortune is on the nadir.
Some nice pluto aspects there in the 11thH Group Therapy?
what about pluto being retrograde also?
Im stumped:):):)

[flea]

Chart 1
Mars on ascendent in scorpio so power is an issue. Mars is in sign of rulership and has nice trines so I would imagine it works in a positive manner. 9th house stellium is good for travel. I would imagine sports poepl travel more than just about anyone. Sag in 2nd may indicate income is gained through travel and foreign countries, it is also quite a physical sign I think.

Chart 2
Jupiter and Neptune in 10th naer MC with NN. Which kinda looks like some kind of fame. Neptune has a lot to do with illusions and film so I guess acting is a potential here. Moon on ascendent which would look like they can express their emotions immediately which is good for actors. Sag moon possibly means they can go different places with their emotions good for different roles. Kidman and aniston have sag moon.Uranus Venus in Leo with Pluto sun merc all in 8th could indicate a sexual provocative nature that is well liked in the film industry. Sex sells I think they say.

Chart 3

leo asc so a need for attention. Pluto in 12th with POF worries me. Not a nice place to live, indicating some kind of seclusion. Pluto not well aspected. Sat/Uranus conj in 10th is not an easy energy to channel. But Jupiter is there and venus rules the MC which is on 7th cusp but square that uranus/saturn. I think this has a strong implication on the life but it is difficult to tell where it went.

Chart 4

Gemini on MC, merc in sag in deteriment. Virgo on asc so not that pushy or demanding but potentially critical. Neptune in 1st house can be enlightenment or dellusion. venus in 5th with no real bad aspects good trine with moon makes it hard for me to see this person being bad. Jupiter with mars in 7th. in aries which gives a power which is maybe lacking on the MC. There is a lot of energy in 4th. I would have to gues that this is the spiritualist as gem is asc and merc in sag is often connected with publishing, Jane Austen for example. But I dont think this person had huge fame.

There is my 10 cents. The last two are tricky.


Love & Light
Flea

[Frisiangal]

Hi Draco.
Pity you didn't include the aspects on the charts; makes it a little easier to see what is aspected to what if you work with that sort of technique.

I don't see Black Moon Lilith ?:D

It's a bit like that game Mastermind with the different pegs. Elimination through things you'd expect to find. But you're not providing the 'accurate' pegs.;)

What are the positions on the outer rings? Midpoints and 90* dial?

F.

[Draco]

Hi Fris.

When I first looked at that style chart I didn't understand it either, but once you get it, it's really very easy to read.

The reason I didn't include aspect lines is because preferances for orbs differ, some base orbs upon the aspect itself, some, like myself, base the orbs on the moiety of the planet. Some do not allow out of sign aspects. Astrodienst uses the most enormous orbs, which bug many, and if the orbs are reduced by 50%, it can remove aspects that really ought to be there. Aspect lines dictate the aspect, the Kundig style chart allows you to decide.

Now, to read that style chart, say for example that a planet, the Sun for example, is at Aries 00.00. You will see that at 00.00 of all the cardinal signs, that there is a Sun glyph accompanied by a square, showing that the Sun is in square to these points, and the glyph will be in red indicating a hard aspect. At 00.00 degrees of the fire signs, you would see a Sun glyph, this time accompanied by a triangle, and they will be in green indicating a soft aspect.

So you glance around the edge of the chart in order to determine the aspects, and have them as tight or as wide as you want, in sign only or out of sign aspects too.

If you look at Mystery Chart #1 as an example, you will see that at the MC, there is a little green line pointing to this point, and next to it is a little green glyph for Saturn and is accompanied by a sextile symbol, this shows that Saturn is closely sextile with the midheaven.

Where the Moon is, you can see that there is a little red line coming from the chart just above the Moon a degree ahead of it, with a little red glyph of Jupiter accompanied by a square, and this shows that Jupiter is in square with the Moon.

If in any doubt, you can refer to the bottom of the charts, where the degrees and minutes of arc of each planet is depicted.

There are no midpoints or 90' wheel depicted on the chart, only major aspects between the planets depicted.

Hopefully this has clarified for you.

There have been some really interesting responses guys, but I'm dropping no hints. :p

Fris, if the Black Moon is important to you, to save uploading again, then here I provide for you the position of her in each chart. It will be interesting to read your reflections on how you feel this point influences the charts, as I don't use it and know little about it.

I used the natural apogee rather than the oscillating.

Lillith:

#1 - 13.50 Leo.

#2 - 24.10 Aries.

#3 - 00.56 Gemini.

#4 - 15.09 Aquarius.

[Lissa]

Thanks Draco for putting up such an interesting thread!;)

I didn't read any previous post in order not to influence my reading.Please bear in mind that I'm only a beginer and I will probably say lots of completly crazy things but well I'm trying to learn.

First chart:First thingthat caught my eye was the dignified Mars conjunct the Ascendnat by a very tight degree.A curious thing about this charts is that two of them have Mars in debility,and this chart is the only exception.Assuming that debilated planets are not comfortable enough to fully express their energies in the way traditionally associated with the planet,I think this chart belongs to the athlethe.Mars only has two aspects,so I think the planet is free to express it's dignity in a almost 'untouched' way.Not only,but we also see the Leo Moon tightly conjunct the MC,and Leo is a sign which typically feels comfortable being in the public eye.The9th house Cancer stellium is the only thing that puzzles me:confused: .

Second chart: I have a feeling this belongs to the adult movie star.The MC is ruled by Venus,and Venus is in Leo(a sign which loves to be in the public eye,like I said before)very tightly conjunct Uranus(freedom,inovation,individualism,breaking barries)in the8th house(typically associated with sex).The Moon in Sagitarius is adventurous and likes to try new things.Looking at the5th(another house associated with sex),the5th is ruled by Venus,which leads agains to the8th house Venus-Uranus conjunction.The conjunction with Uranus is the only aspect Venus makes,putting more emphasis on it.

Third chart: I think this chart belongs to the medium.Neptune is in the2nd(achieving money through spiritual work-the book selling thing).The3rd house-communications-is ruled by Venus;Venus is very tightly conjunct the DC,and is disposed by Uranus;Uranus can be found in the10th(associating the book-writing with the career).Sun,Moon and Mercury are all in the6th(daily work);I'm thinking spiritual practices require a lot of daily work and dedication in order to achieve our spiritual goals.The Part of Fortune is in the12th house alongside Pluto,so money was achieve through spirituality.

Fourth chart: The serial killer.Mars is in the7th(anger turned against others).Mars is disposed by Neptune(found in the1st house),and it opposes it's own dispositor.The12th house(psychologhical problems)is ruled by the Sun,and the Sun is in the4th,the house related to the uncounscious and security matters.

I have to say I'm still very confused by all of this.I probably a lot of things that don't make sense but well we'll see.

[Shining Ray]

Here are my Guesses:

Now I might have missed some aspects as I am used to reading charts with the aspect lines drawn in, so I tried my best to spot most of the aspects.

Chart number 1 - This may be the possible murderer chart, The SN on Pluto in Leo/10th an authoritative, powerful placement.

Sun in Cancer squares Saturn in the 11th house - Maybe this individual doesn't feel he fits into society in some way. Saturn is on the cusp of the 12th, which can suggest a confinement of some sort for this individual.

The Sun is very afflicted in this chart. Saturn, Uranus, semi something to Pluto.

There is a lot of 9th house activity in this chart but this could also mean dealings with the law, travel, are his morals right or wrong, that's for god to judge he has Sun/Uranus in 9th maybe he breaks the law. :p

There is a T.square with Mars/Jupiter/Moon involving the fixed signs, of Leo, Scorpio, and Taurus. I think fixed t.Squares focus on issues of self worth for this person. Emotions, anger, can be excessive. Venus Squares Saturn so again self-worth issues for this person. Moon conjunct Pluto secretive emotions, destructive emotions considering this person has a lot of Cancer in chart the emotions are controlled, by the powerful planets Saturn/Pluto.

The worst traits of Mars in Scorpio person - emotional and sexual addictions, , fears linked with loss, betrayal, abandonment, can create a fundamental fear of intimacy. A Mars in Scorpio, person must learn the value of emotional and sexual commitment versus following every compulsive desire.

Chart Number 2 - Adult move star - SN in Aries sex, anger, impulsive desires. Mars on the cusp of 5th and the only planet below the horizon, may suggest sexual affairs as I believe the 5th house relates to casual non committed sex. Mars squares Uranus/Venus in the 8th house I would say this person may be distanced from deep commitment, detached from the issues of the 8th house sex, intimacy, deep connections. Mars quincunx Saturn. Mars in Taurus can mean sexual violence, this person may want to confront sexual situations, where the emotions and psychological nature are brought into awareness I won't go further on the Mars in Taurus as I will make myself blush. :p Nearly all these charts had Mars in Taurus but this Mars was on the 5th house afflicting Uranus/Venus in 8th which makes my mind think this person would most likely to be the adult film star.

Neptune in Scorpio 10th - bring to mind sexual/images career. Conjunct Jupiter. Excessive. Neptune rules neurotic conditions. Sexual/Addictions/excess.

Chart number 3 - The sporty person - Sagittarius on the cusp of the 5th house, ruler in 10th Gemini. Enjoys sporty, activities. Sun in 6th square Mars in Taurus/9th Mars active in the travel house, Jupiter house but in Taurus I was thinking this may be a slow sign for Mars, but it adds stamina and perseverance. To the individual. Moon Squares Mars in 9th work travel/adventure provoke strong emotions. Moon Square Saturn work houses Air/Earth a mental physical perseverance. Mars/Pluto aspect amazing physical/power.

Chart number 4 - Spiritual person - Asc Virgo, Neptune - Spirituality part of this person. Self daily routine, work.

Sun Square Jupiter, Sun Square Uranus in 9th, Moon opposed Jupiter.

Mercury square Mars/Pisces around the spiritual degree. Mars/Neptune aspect, Jupiter Neptune aspect.

[Shining Ray]

P.S I couldn't see the chart patterns in the chart so my T.Square I noted might be too wide. There was no degrees next to the planets to check quickly. Excuse my mistakes. :)

[Neptune Rising]

Pisces can at times be feisty and fiery more so then a cancer anyhow.


Oh yes, my moon in Pisces understands this, flustered and fussed too! But not enough to even kill a spider...

I'm learning all the time here.:)

Neptune

[Lissa]

I remember I once read somewhere that serial killers have some sort of stressful connection between the12th and the8th house...Thinking of that,in the4th chart,the12th house is ruled by the Sun,the Sun(located in the house of inner security)is disposed by Saturn,which is in the8th and in it's fall!Not only,but the Sun(ruler of the12th)squares the8th house cusp with something like a1ºorb.

[astromony]

This is an excellent excersize. Thanks for it. These are my thoughts and really have been formed with the help of all the other input thus far.
#1 athelete- mars on an angle(Guaqalin studies, i'm sorry i cannot remember the correct spelling of his name). Also, moon and pluto conjunct on MC- the conjunction of these two would suggest a strong mothering influence in this athelete's life.
#2 spiritual medium-12th house moon in sagittarius, like Princess Diana and mother Teresa. I have seen Sagittarius and Virgo moons to be called the "monastic" moons. Pluto can be a very powerful healer when connected with the 8th house and conjunct the sun here would indicate a person who has a personality which is in-touch with and can offer support to the healer within. Sun is trine moon so they work together in this chart. Sun conjunct mercury helps with ability to communicate in dynamic ways. I was suprised not to see more water influence in the chart but moon in 12th house is pisces' domain and 8th is scorpio's.
#3serial killer. It was said at the beginning of this post that mars/pluto conflicts in a chart represent aggression and this chart is full of them. Mars square sun and moon and pluto square mars and oppose sun and moon from the 12th house where it cuddles up with POF. This is where I see how we come in with these certain dispositions and i feel for the folks who come in so conflicted.
#4adult movie star-Venus in Aquarius leads to the ability to distance oneself from attachment and i would see this as a necessary trait in the **** industry. Also this person has moon in the second so there will be a drive toward attaining wealth. Mars and jupiter conjunct in 7th house, benefit through relationships and mars in pisces so this person would seem a lover more than a fighter. Pluto/power in the eleventh house(friends and groups) in leo(a proud nature). Also sun square moon points to the idea that the left hand doesn't necessarily agree with what the right is doing. Pluto trine mars suggest an easy flow between this person's power and drives.
I'll be anxious to see the outcomes of this post. smile

[Draco]

Really interesting responses, keep them coming. I see that I will have rather a lot to respond to when I reveal the answers, and the thread is still growing, but I don't mind that. When I reveal, I will try to be thorough in highlighting where each of you have made significant observations.

Remember, if you don't want to attempt all four charts, you might want to select one or two charts to focus upon, do as you wish.

I await your observations with interest Frisiangal. The Black Moon's are listed especially.:)

I'm glad so many of you find this exercise interesting, I was inspired by Bob's post where he put up the nativity and asked us to observe what kind of person the chart may belong to. We ought to do this sort of thing more often.

When I selected these four charts, I thought I had chosen four very different kinds of people, but on thinking about it, an athlete, a male **** star and a killer are all under the rulership of Mars, with the exception of the medium. Please don't in anyway take this as some sort of clue, it isn't, if you take it as such it could mislead, then again, perhaps not, I'm just sharing my thoughts. Perhaps it is my own fascination with Mars that lead me to select these types.

To remind you, all the charts belong to men. Three are American and one is Canadian. Three are still living, and one is now dead. Two of them were born in the Forties, and two in the Fifties.

I wonder if alongside trying to relate career to the chart, anyone might be able to deduce which of these persons is now dead?

Bob, might you join in on this? It would be interesting to read your observations.

[wilsontc]

Draco,

Thanks for all your help! :) Deal me in! ;)

Chart #1

- Leo (self-expression, also performing arts) modifying Midheaven (outer world)
So there is an interest in being "on stage" in the outer world

- Leo modifying Pluto (transformation, also sex) conjunct (energy is combined with) South node (the past), easiness with sexual performance at an early age

- Scorpio (transformation, also sex) modifying Mars (being, also action, ancient ruler of Scorpio) conjunct (energy is combined with) Ascendant (self)
Sex is something they are personally active in

- Pluto sextile (energy goes easily with) Neptune (spirituality, also illusion, movies) focused in the 12th house (spirituality, also illusion, movies)

- Taurus (physical) modifying Jupiter (expansion) focused in the 7th house (relationships)
- very expansive in their physical relationships

**** star


Chart #2

- Kite to Virgo (daily work) modifying North node (future goals) conjunct Midheaven (outer world) conjunct Jupiter (expansion) conjunct Scorpio (transformation, also death) modifying Neptune (spirituality)
Easy strong spiritual connection to the dead

- Many planets focused in the 8th house (transformation, also death), part of the kite
More dead connections

- Kite links in 12th house (spirituality)
More spirituality

- Kite links in Moon (home, also unconscious)
Psychic connections

Psychic with medium abilities


Chart #3

- Strong T-squares to Taurus (physical) modifying Mars (being, also action) focused in the 9th house (expansion, also sports)
Strong interest in physical sport

- T-square between the nodes to Jupiter (expansion, also sports)
More sports

- Taurus (physical) modifying Midheaven (outer world)
A need to be "physical" in the outer world

- Leo (self-expression, also performing arts) modifying Ascendant (self)
A need to be "onstage" and recognized

- Leo (self-expression, also performing arts) modifying Pluto (transformation, also power) opposite (energy is over-excited by) Sun (self-expression, also performing arts)
A POWERFUL need to be recognized

Sports person


Chart #4

- Pluto (transformation, also control) opposite (energy is over-excited by) Venus (relationships)
A need to be in control in relationships

- Mars (being, also anger) focused in the 7th house (relationships)
Anger in relationships

- Pluto (transformation, also power) focused in the 11th house (friends, also shocking, rebellion) trine (energy goes easily with) Mars focused in the 7th house
His anger has an outlet into powerful, shocking rebellion

- Taurus (physical) modifying unaspected (strong energy) Uranus (friends, also shocking, rebellion) focused in the 9th house (expansion)
Ability to shocking, physical, rebelling things in a big way...which he doesn't "connect in" to

Serial killer


Guessing,

Tim

[astrobhadauria]

Mystery Person -1
Mars in the 1st house and this house belongs to death(Scorpio),Jupiter giving full supports,Jupiter is the Lord of 2nd House,this house belongs to physical money.Mars is squire to 4th house,this house related to people,always Mars kill to 4th, if there are bad effects of Saturn,or Rahu or Ketu,Saturn give full supports from 11th house,and for the gains Mars can make killing works,Pluto and Moon from 10th house giving opposition from 10th house,This person always busy in the meeting with lower catogary’s persons,Jupiter from 7th house give supports to Sun,Lord of 10th house,Venus,Lord of 7th,and 12th,houses,Mercury,the lord of 8th house (Business of Death related things) lord of 11th house,(Desires to gains or make profits by the deaths) it means this person is serial Killer.
Mystery Person-2
Saturn in 12th house with Moon,Saturn is the lord of 1st house and 2nd house,has relation with lord of 7th,and 12th house is the house of Paranormal strength and House of soul,Rahu in the 9th house,life of this person depends on the out side souls,like describing the nature and effects of 12th house,and Rahu giving strength for the saying words those have relations with out side world,Neptune and Jupiter both are creater of feelings to others,Jupiter support the knowledge of feelings and also giving good knowledge about the paranormal strength,having faith on life after death.Jupiter providing strength to Saturn and Saturn giving full strength to Rahu,it is the image of a good fortune tellers,and spiritualist medium,
Mystery Person-3
Simple reading for this person,Mars in the 9th house,and in his own house,giving full supports to Pluto in the 12th house,this house is the house of Movie Cemara house is pluto is there,Also Part of fortuna in the 12th,this house also related to Rahu and Jupiter,both are out side brighter,if 9th giving supports to this house.Venus in 7th house,having full oppositions with 1st house and not any interfares from any stars.this chart have full image of a Actor,or Adult movie star.Sun with Moon and Mercury,in 6th house,it means this chart related to female adult movie star.
Mystery Person-4
Moon and Rahu in the 2nd house,gains from arrengement of games from many companeies,Sun,Mercury with part of fortuna in the 4th house,money counting from the house games,4th house,Jupiter with Mars in the 7th house giving full knowledge of running,Pluto with opposition with Venus,wife busy with seeing to this person in TV.This Chart making image of a Athlete.

[starlink]

Hi Draco, haven't seen you for a long time! Nice puzzle you gave us.
I will start with chart no. 4. I think that one is the serial killer. Most personal planets, Sun, Moon, Mercury and Venus are below the horizon, making the person very introvert and private, as well as secretive with the ruler of the 12th, the Sun, situated in the 4th.There is a strong 8th house connection to be found in this chart. Jupiter, ruler of the 4th (and therefore of all the 4th house planets) is in Mutual reception with Mars, ruler of the 8th and Saturn, ruler of the Sun is in the 8th house and trines the ruler of the Ascendant. So there is an indication of very deep fear (Saturn) death and sex related to private selfexpression (Sun in 4th) in this chart. Makes me think that he did not like prostitution or anything else related to sex and therefore maybe killed prostitutes? (Venus in the 5th).
What struck me is that Uranus is unaspected in this chart (Uranus co-ruler of Capricorn and therefore the Sun) in Taurus in the 9th, showing extreme life philosofies and most certainly feels that he is different from anyone else.He has very fixed ideas. Uranus is in mutual reception with Venus in Aquarius in the 5th, so the way he thinks about sex (or romance) is quite "unique" and plays a role in his opinions.It also shows that he does not like to be close to others. Neptune in the 1st often shows someone who finds it hard to give him/herself an identity. Neptune squares Mercury (in 4), ruler of the 10th. With the ruler of the 10th in the 4th, you can imagine someone who works at home or has hîs business there. Mercury, ruler 1, squares the ruler of the 7th house, Neptune showing difficulties in relation to others as well as in relation to society as a whole. He feels outcast. With the ruler of the 7th in the 1st, he also does not really need other people.
Last but not least, his Mars conjunct Jupiter, both trine Pluto and both square the Ascendant and MC rulers shows destructive aggression towards others and society. His Mercury, the way he thinks, is ruled by Jupiter and is influenced by the same aggression. He is very clever as well but the Pisces Mars can make his thinking unrealistic and dangerous. I wonder how far off I am here. This chart could also be the actor with a very private life.

[Shining Ray]

Nearly everybody has guessed the 4th person as the Murderer, and I have guessed this person as having a spiritual chart, Oh well you can all have a good laugh if it turns out to be the serial killer. And I will burn all my astrology books in a tantrum :D . I am going to have a another look at chart No 4.

It will be an interesting exercise, and we all learn were we might have gone wrong on interpretation. But as Draco said there was a similar theme with Killer/Sex/Sport all coming under the influence of Mars.

[starlink]

OK, next one is chart no.3. That one is I think, the actor, based on the grand trine between ruler Ascendant, Sun, with Neptune in the 2nd (glamour, income through a Neptunian occupancy) and Uranus in the 10th of career and Uranus being the ruler of his Moon conjunct Mercury in 6 (working with emotional expression) and making a living of it (2nd.house Mercury ruled).
Venus on the 1oth house cusp, a Venusian career, glamour, attraction in the 7th house of others (the public). Sun, Moon and Mercury in 6 could mean that he was employed as a moviestar by some important Movie company (Warner Brothers or something like that). Ruler of the 6th in the 10th shows that his work turned out to be his career. He could have been a workoholic with the ruler of the Ascendant in the 6th, as well as his Moon.
Finally, ruler of the 5th of selfexpression, also situated in the 10th house of career.

[starlink]

Chart no. 2 is for me clearly the Spiritual Medium with Ascendant ruler in the 12th and a packed 8th house. Venus, ruler of MC in the 8th, conjunct Uranus, (planet of clairvoyance and unexplained phenomena in my opinion) and Neptune conjunct Jupiter, showing great intuition and emphathy in the career. Then his Moon in Sag. in 12, another sign of sensitivity and intuition in trine to his Sun in the 8th house of "things unseen and mystery" as well as the Sun-Pluto-Mercury conjunction in the 8th which could not be more mind strengthening and deep thinking about occult things.

This leave Chart no.1 as being the Athlete. Strong Scorpio Ascendant with Mars rising, incredibly strong physically, great stamina. Sun , Venus, Uranus and Mercury all in the 9th, the Saggittarius (sport) house as well as long distance traveling. He could have lived abroad, not in his home country.
With Neptune, ruler 5 (of sports) in the 12th, he could have been a "lonely" sportsman or someone who had a secret fear (Saturn in 12) of selfexpression but used sport to overcome this; maybe a swimmer (Sun in Cancer, water sign), Neptune in the Pisces (water)house, or a bodybuilder because of the Venus conjunct his Sun, showing off his physique and Mars, ruler of the 6th of health and how you are occupied with your body, conjunct the Ascendant.Probably had to travel a lot of course with all those planets om the 9th. Moon in the 10th in square to Jupiter shows a very public (popular) personality, bit of a show-off. Pluto conjunct Moon in 10 again shows enormous power in his career. Venus conjunct Sun, attractive, jovial sort of man. Well, that was my contribution. Curious to see the results and thanks Draco for all the work you put into this.

[Shining Ray]

I have looked back at chart No. 4 and to be honest on first impressions this person came off the weakest in personality to me. After looking at the other 3 charts. I understand why everyone is thinking this is the killers chart. I thought this chart was a weak person. Here is what Jeff Green says on Mars in Pisces, the 4th chart has Mars opposite Neptune in the 1st, doubles the Pisces/Mars theme. I am just putting the worst possible scenario down as you all think this is the killer.

These souls can feel victimised by life, and by other's. When this occurs the Mars in Pisces generates an anger based on victimisation. This anger caused by a false sense of being victimised, then manifests as wanting to cause hurt, pain and humiliation to other people who the soul feels victimised by - to go from being persecuted to becoming the persecutor. This cycle of being victimized, then victimising, will continue until the soul finally is able to consciously and accept the nature of it's desires, and the realities that these desires create.

Reading this you may all be right. Reading back my answer on the 1st chart it sounds more like the sex addict with very strong self worth issues and compulsive desires, but it is easy to link this to a murderer who can't control his compulsive desire to kill. The 2nd chart might well be the psychic as the 10th house Neptune/Scorpio can be psychic career instead of Sexual/film type of career, what I first thought it might have been. But honestly the 4th chart looked like a weaker character to me, but maybe this is why it could be the killer the weak victimised feelings turning angry and killing.

Thanks Draco this thread is fascinating trying to work out the psychological motivations. Please keep doing more of these as I can see where I am going wrong in my interpretation.

[astromony]

I checked fixed stars and #3 has Uranus tightly conjunct and Saturn approaching conjunction to Algol, or the head of the medusa(Joan of Arc had saturn conjunct Algol). I am now more convinced that he is the killer and i think he's still alive.
Chart #2 is the most likely to be dead as pluto just passed over his moon and saturn in the 12th house. I feel this to have been a very famous person as his natal contains true node in conjunct with Spica, an enviable fixed star to have which bestows creativity. Also, his natal mercury sits at 29 degrees of Leo conjunct Regulus which is said to be the most royal of the four royal stars in the sky according to both Eastern and Western astro traditions. I see fame and early death both for this person.
I hope you will tell us who these people as well or maybe someone could figure this out. Anyway i agree that this is a great challenge and way to hone chart reading skills. Thanks.

[starlink]

But Astromony, Joan of Arc was a Saint! Poor thing was burned to death, I think Algol had more to do with her fate here than with her personality. I am also terribly curious to know wether chart 3 is actor or killer. Killer with a 6th house Moon and Sun? This looks more to me a person at the mercy of others instead of the other way around. Usually very helpful as well (Virgo house).
It is great to see all the different outcomes. I only looked at them AFTER I did the charts, I did not want to be influenced by the others.

[Draco]

Fascinating responses.

I think I'll reveal the answers pretty soon, as I wish to go through each persons observations, highlighting where they were significant, and if I wait too long it will end up being a very loooooooong post in order to consider everybody.

So if you fancy a go at this. Quick, quick!

[tsquare]

This is my final guess.

Chart 1 and chart 3:
---------------------
with the moon in leo close to the midheaven in leo in square mars in the firstH conj.
assendent in scorpio. I see person who needs to be in the spotlight and is very athletically able and pationate. these planets also form a tsquare as well to jupiter in the seventh in taurus. so without geting too far into the chart I have to say athlete, the only thing that sways me away from athlete is the sun in cancer.
.....Im going with pornstar.

In chart 3 I see the moon in aqaurius in 6t H and Im thinking that this person need a job as an artist of sorts yet since it opposes pluto in the 12th I see alot of agression and energy built up.
his sun also opposes pluto and since the sun in in aqarius athough it is a air sign it is also a fixed sign whigh indicates to me that this person is an athlete. Those two tsquares formed between sun moon pluto and mars in taurus indicate a physical person taurus being a earth sign and also a fixed sign, and with aqarius sun and moon (also fixed) I see an able athlete.
In the 10th is saturn and with the squares it has with the and moon and mercury and venus I see an outward display of energy and recieving fame for it.

This is a real rough guess.

to me the main diference between the two in guessing was the venus in opposition in the seventhH to the assendent in leo, in the 3rd chart.
I dont see this as a "here I am!" type of sexuality that a pornstar would have. there are other things as well but Im not seeing it all....Im rushing.
It could also be the complete opposite of what I just said this person could crave attention somehow.
Just a rough guess
Ive been fliping between the two charts off and on.
I cant wait too see the answers!:)
-------------------------------------
In a hurry!!--Tsquare

[Carole]

This is a wonderful way to practise!!!!! I hope I can give it a try in a little while, as soon as I finish my work.:)

Ok, here I go.

Chart No. 1

Mars so strong on the ascendant and in Scorpio makes me think of lots of physical and psychic energy needing an outlet. Venus' negative attributes taken to their maximum by this conjunction with the Sun give this man a very strong amorous nature, which he may show off since the Moon (dispositor of both) is culminating in Leo. He probably has a narcissistic need to be liked and admired, and could be a cheerful and magnetic person, if his Sun and Venus were not afflicted by Saturn, making him defensive, insecure, fearful of rejection and underestimate his self-worth.
A square between Neptune and the Moon gives him a clouded perception between reality and fantasy. The square Neptune-Uranus adds the element of rebellion against the religious or moral principles he might have been raised with.
Mercury in the nodal degree and in square to Neptune is badly equipped to help this man to think clearly and logically. In the 9th house and afflicted, it gives mental restlessness and confusion. With all that water in this chart, there is a good deal of intuition but also too much emotionalism.
For these reasons and others that are hard to enumerate because of time, I tend to think that this chart belongs to the Serial Killer.

Chart No. 2

This is probably a down-to-earth but very receptive man who likes solitude and is in a close connection with the spiritual realm, as the Moon and Saturn in Sagittarius and 12th house show. The stellium in the 8th house and the nature of the planets there situated, undoubtedly stand for great psychic powers. Uranus conjunct Venus grants him a lively, sparkling personality. He is more than probable, a very popular person and likes people a lot, even if he feels happy in his own company.
The royal star Regulus conjunct Mercury and Sun will raise this man to a very high position in life, it will bring him in connection with famous people, and will favours him with good fortune.
The North Node in Libra and 9th house means that this man is tied to the search for spiritual growth that can help him to learn the balance he refused to learn in his previous incarnation, in which he achieved and lost a lot. This position of the North Node means also that he is part of the group of people who are meant to be a guide for many. Although he is not particularly looking for financial success, he will have plenty of resources without having to fight for that.
Jupiter conjunt Neptune in the 10th house ruled by Venus, shows the possibly spiritual nature of his career, which may be fated as Spica conjunct North Node and sextile the Moon. Jupiter disposes of Moon and Saturn and rules 12th house of spirituality. Moon in 12th house represents an easy connection to the other side.
The easy flow of energy in this chart and the things mentioned above, tell me that this chart belongs to the Spiritual Medium.

Chart No. 3

Sun in Capricorn square Mars in Taurus, and Mars squaring Pluto in Leo endow this man with an extraordinary amount of volatile energy. He seems to keep so much anger inside and he well may direct this negativity towards himself and get sick as a direct consequence of it. Mars in 9th house in Taurus may also indicate illness through religious zealotry.
First decan of Leo ascending denotes a generous, straight and ambitious nature, projecting also an image of arrogance and love of power. He is probable to fall prey to his impulses and short temper, which may get him in trouble.
He may enjoy the spotlight, and with the conjunction Uranus/Saturn in 10th house he might be rebellious against authority and choose a type of work where changes are the normal thing. North Node in Virgo and 2nd house means that he will try to stay away from debts and be frugal in his expenses. This could be hard with detrimented Neptune there to cloud his financial judgement, especially if his impulsive nature doesn't allow him to control his finances. He must be careful of people who mask themselves as helping friends.
Uranus, Saturn and Jupiter in 10th house may show that his work is unusual and may have many changes through his life.
Algol conjunct Saturn and Uranus in the 10th might bring some kind of accident related to the unusual nature or the changes in this man's work.
It seems to me that with all of those Martian and Plutonian energies, this chart might well belong to the Athlete.

Chart No. 4

Virgo ascendant and Venus in Aquarius can give seductive looks to a man, which is useful if he is going to be in front of the camera. His Capricorn Sun square his Libra Moon indicating some inner conflicts between ego and emotions that may cause him some problems in his relationships with women.
This man may be interested in affairs that defy convention and tradition, or being more interested in friendship than in love.
Neptune blurs his perception of himself and how he is seen by others, and may give a wrong impression about the person he is. Chances are that he is living a fantasy or a lie which has become real for him.
Issues of power and control in relationships arise with Venus opposition Pluto. and with Uranus in the 9th house he will be willing to throw away all the known religious ideas he had and changed them into something totally different and new.
Gemini ruling the Midheaven as if the career had to do with communications, advertising, etc., and the Moon trine Venus, ruler of the 2nd house, pointing out to considerable gain through personal initiative and common sense.
This sounds to me like the Adult Movie Star.

I suposse I might eventually observe some other things that I may have overlooked right now, and then to add something to this or change my mind about my guessing.


Carole

[twiggy]

I will play too!

Chart #1: Athlete. Scorp ASC, Mars in Scorpio on the ASC. Extreme willpower, 'kills' the competition, fights to the last breath.

Chart #2: Medium. Emphasis on 4, 8, 12 H -strong psychological foundation. Many easy aspects between these enables great focus and utilisation of talents. Sun in Virgo in 8H, Leo on 8H cusp - Sun energies used to transform/heal other people, creatively.

Chart#3: Serial killer. The squares Sun, Moon to Mars, and Moon, Mercury, Venus to Saturn. Jupiter in Gemini in 10H - expansive intelligence/could outsmart authorities. Saturn in 10H maybe doesn't sit well with Jupiter in the same house. Mars in Taurus is in detriment, and sits high in the chart, close to MC - wrong expression of aggression close to the eye of the public. Sun, Moon, Mercury in 6H - feeling of being overshadowed/sacrifice could breed resentment. Pluto in 12H - transformation could happen in the confinement of prison.

Chart#4: Adult movie star. Absence of planets in 10H - career has no official power, authority, mark on humanity. Moon in Libra in 2H - sensous looks, values. Venus in Aquarius in 5H - sex as creative expression, but also distant to it. Saturn in Aries in 8H - fire in the house of sex.

[Frisiangal]

Hi Draco,

A bit of a delay in replying as my husband has returned home from convalescence. With so many mystery charts to choose from, where does one begin?

O.K. My thoughts:
1) Spiritual medium
2)Serial killer,
3) Athlete,
4 Actor,...I suspected James Dean but have had to change ideas.

CHART #1.

Medium. I took the easy way out from a clue you provided. He is a published writer. There would, to my way of thinking, have to be an affiliation between writing and publishing (9th house) of one’s beliefs (9th house). By coincidence the 9th house is heavily tenanted, including Mercury.
Mercury is also ruler of the 8th house. It squares Neptune in 12th, the planet and house that has so much to do with psychic qualities. Speaking with the departed? Not only that, Neptune is also (modern) ruler of Pisces, which is on the 5th house cusp of creative expression.

Ascendant and Sun are in water signs that deals with feeling rather than tangibility. By coincidence again, Moon-Pluto, rulers Sun sign, 9th house and Ascendant, are conjunct in Leo in the 10th house. Moon to M.C. The person is able to bring the deep feeling within in a dramatic way to the public. ( On another thread, there was also reference to Moon in 10th referring to ‘the public’). Third coincidence is the position of Black Moon Lilith locked imbetween Moon-Pluto. The natural trait to delve into that which cannot be physically seen and touched and give it an existence.

But he could just as easily be the athlete, serial killer or porno star with that Mars in Scorpio.

CHART #2.

Serial killer. Once again, I’ve gone for the simple thing. A full 8th house and, particularly, Saturn in the 12th. Sagittarius has proven to come up a lot in charts of criminals and Saturn in Sag. has been indicative of a lack of social conscience and morals. As with the Brady chart, Saturn in 12th can be indicative of long-term incarceration. I’m also wondering if the conjunction with Moon, ruler 7th, could be indicative of (female) bodies (Saturn) being hidden.

Jupiter in Libra conjoins Neptune. Feelings of grandisement, feeling above the law?The Mercury-Sun-Pluto conjunction sextiles Neptune. Compelled to follow voices that spoke to him. Black Moon Lilith conjunct I.C. makes up a grand trine in the fire signs and also opposes Jupiter. Almost childlike, there is no sense of right and wrong. BML in Aries has often coincided with deep inner feelings of not existing, not feeling seen for whom one is...the “I AM”, therefore I exist”. In a male chart it has sometimes coincided with a feeling of ‘emasculation’.

With the Moon-Saturn in 12th, I would be surprised if this person was the porno star in spite of the heavy 8th house, Mars in physical Taurus, and Neptune in 10th.

Gotta go.....Back another time.

Fris.

[starlink]

In chart no. 1, the Solar Arc 8th house cusp reaches the Sun-Venus conjunction around 32-34 years of age, so there you could suspect an early death. When I was busy figuring out the actor, strangely enough I also thought of James Dean.(God knows why because the hint was: an adult male star and James was young.) But then, according to the SA progressions, chart no.1,(whether killer, athlete or medium) could maybe have died young? (32-34) .Totally guessing here because the SA directions often do not work out that way. I had to laugh about the "**** star" expression. We are talking about a famous MAN (all the charts are male) and I have not yet heard about a famous male pornstar! Females, yes. I think the actor is rather extremely charismatic and a sexsymbol to many ladies.

[tsquare]

quote: Starlink
I had to laugh about the "**** star" expression. We are talking about a famous MAN (all the charts are male) and I have not yet heard about a famous male pornstar! Females, yes.

There are two fairly famous male **** stars I know of.
Initialy I thought adult male star meant movie star, and then after everybody brought up **** star I thought huh..... so I went with **** star.
Ill stick with pornstar, and ill just say there are some famous ones out there.
One of them is extremely controversial, the movie made about him was called Wonderland, And I think Boogie Nights was inspired by him as well, both are mainstream films and not ****.
The other one has a documentary about his life out there and you'll probably find it in Blockbuster....no joke:). I dont want to give the names of the people though.

The "documentary" is more on the funny side though even though it is a documentary. He's quite the personality. :rotflmao:Hes been on TV as well and is a real hollywood socialite, for good or Ill.
My initial guesses remain as they are.:68:
Otherwise I worry Draco's Avatar will pull out all its hair trying to respond to all my guesses:D.

I dont want anyone to change their opinions and guesses though based upon this. I still dont know the answer for sure and dont want to cheat myself and others as well. I dont believe ive given anything away cause I dont seem to have even given anything away to myself either......Im stumped!.
Id just thought Id say there are some "famous" ones out there.
It just depends on an individuals idea of fame, or whatever that even is anymore.
Noteriety, Infamy, Fame.
============================================
And Starlink.... Im laughing too.:rotflmao:--Tsquare

[Carole]

My investigative mind cannot have a rest from these charts now!;)

I have an internal debate since I haven't been able to make up my mind about charts 1 and 4. What someone said about Leo and the looking for the spotlight on chart 1 rang a bell in my head. Taking a second look at this chart, Gemini ruling the 8th house could reflect a person who doesn't recognise or accept boundaries in sex. That Mars can be a sexy Mars after all. Mercury distorting the person's rational process of thought, granting an overactive imagination... And the importance of Leo ruling Midheaven. The Moon lends emotional need for attention and drama, and puts the person in contact with the public. Possibly a career on stage, with Pluto sextile Neptune also. Mmmmm...this well could be the Adult Movie Star and I mixed up everything!:o

I'll come back later when I have more free time to continue to analyse these charts, and hopefully decide who is who and which is which.

Carole

[Frisiangal]

Chart #3.

Imho, with no planets in the water signs this could not be the spiritual medium. It doesn’t ring serial killer, either. I’m going for the athlete.

According to the Gaugelin tests, athletes showed a prominent Mars. An athlete needs not only stamina but also strong discipline and staying power. Mars in the first decanate of Taurus would provide the thick muscles as well as stamina and it’s trine natal Sun in the 3rd (Virgo) decanate Capricorn that adds the discipline and staying power, as well as care for, and perfection of, the physical body. Capricorn also rules the legs. Mars is also in the 2nd dwad of Taurus, Gemini, which is associated with agility of movement. With Saturn in 10th in Capricorn decanate and dwad, this is an ambitious achiever. Up against Uranus, ruler 7th, I would not think him to be a team player but a solo artist relying on his own individual ability.
Jupiter is ruler 5th house of creative expression. It’s in Gemini in the 10th. This is more of a l-o-n-g distance runner or high pole jumper, for instance, than a short and quick sprinter.

If he had had Black Moon Lilith conjunct Jupiter in Gemini in the 10th , he might also have said ‘I’m the greatest’ and changed his name to a more spiritual one, losing his true identity. :D As it is BML forms an out of sign grand trine with Sun-Uranus-Neptune. He may have been the example for others to follow ‘to be just like him’.

Chart # 4.

No choice left, so this could be the male porno star as it’s not James Dean (Saturn in 8th in Aries – killed in car crash).
Movie stars often have a strong Neptune for the association with film/photography. Neptune is in the Ascendant. Although one wouldn’t think of a porno star as having a Virgo Asc., the actions are actually quite clinical. There’s no true feeling involved, just going through the physical motions. Neptune is also inconjunct Saturn in the 8th. The latter has a reputation where sexual inhibitions is concerned. The sexuality could be exploited via the opposition to Mars in 7th (what’s porno without a partner?) , ruler 8th house. And Mars conjunct Jupiter. Size?:p

BML is in the Gemini decanate of Aquarius in the 5th house. It acts and feels very comfortable in this sign because it’s where it can detach from feeling the most easily. Gemini is everybody’s friend and ‘no body’s lover. Quite convenient that Venus conjuncts BML. In the house of love? It’s not real; it doesn’t exist. BML also squares Uranus, ruler 6th house. It’s a job; nothing permanent.

The person is a Capricorn Sun with Capricorn on 5th house cusp. Ruler Saturn is in the 8th house. With Saturn inconjunct Neptune in the Ascendant, I wonder if death is/was self-inflicted through intoxication of some kind that numbed reality.

My 4 cents.;)

Fris.

[astromony]

But Astromony, Joan of Arc was a Saint! Poor thing was burned to death, I think Algol had more to do with her fate here than with her personality. I am also terribly curious to know wether chart 3 is actor or killer. Killer with a 6th house Moon and Sun? This looks more to me a person at the mercy of others instead of the other way around. Usually very helpful as well (Virgo house).
It is great to see all the different outcomes. I only looked at them AFTER I did the charts, I did not want to be influenced by the others.

This is true Starlink but i think that uranus and saturn with Algol would give a tendancy to aggresion and St Joan was a fighter. Lots of famous military generals have outer planets conjunct algol.

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

I think I’m only going to work on chart number three, at least for now. I’ll admit, I have read most of this thread, so I may have been influenced by the ideas of others.
It’s odd that I read about the Mars Effect just hours before seeing this thread, so when I saw that one of these charts belonged to an athlete it was the first thing I looked for. Charts numbers one and three are the best ones for the Mars Effect, however, it’s chart number three’s Mars that is exactly in one of the two hot spots whereas chart number one’s Mars is close, but this isn’t horseshoes. So, working with this Mars Effect as a first step, it brings me to examine numero tres more closely. I see a Taurus Midheaven that shows he wants rewards…which boils down to lots of money, also it makes me think of physical labors (This part made me think of the adult film star). Another part of the chart that I think would be accented would be the sixth house of health and work. Those athletes have gotta stay healthy you know. Just like I thought, numero tres has an accented sixth house with Sol, Luna, and Mercury here. There’s also a definite connection between the sixth and tenth houses, seeing as how Saturn – lord of the fifth – resides in the tenth house. I also think this person had some drinking problems, which may have led to death, therefore, I believe that this is the one who is now dead.

[starlink]

Hi Tsquare! Thanks for the information on pornostars:D I think I am a bit ignorant about these things, maybe also not really had any interest in porno movies:87: . This is great fun, everybody has different impressions. Can't wait much longer!! Cheers!:)

[starlink]

Astromony, yes, Joan was a great fighter, but I dont think she could be labeled aggressive as in nasty. This guy, the killer, is aggressive in a very nasty way after all. On the other hand, military fighters can be aggressive in an unpleasant way I'm sure. I dont really look at Algol and the other stars, maybe should start including them slowly. Thanks anyways for your comment on this, I like a bit of discussion.

[Lissa]

Draco,when are you gonna tells us who's who?:D My triple Aries placement is starting to get impatient..:D But so many people joined this thread since your last post,if you're still going to refer to everyone who joined in your post...I wouldn't like to be in your place lol.

[astromony]

Oh you know what, I just figured out who the spiritual medium is and i know for a fact he's still alive and i don't want to blow it for Draco but this guy was born in 1958 and made my guess correct. I am excited to see who the others turn out to be. hehe.

[astromony]

The 3rd chart is not a serial killer but a "fighter" as i said before as i have figured out who he is and he is a famous athelete indeed and to my knowledge still alive. So, the serial killer is the 1st or fourth. hmmh

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

Thank you, astronomy, for ruining the game for the rest of us...

[astromony]

You know what, i didn't realize that i was doing that by resolving some of this puzzle. I apologize to those of you who feel that way as i could have kept it to myself and just said that i was right about the "medium" and wrong about the athelete. There's more to unravel here though so "the game is not over. If this means i am disqualified as a result i understand. Thanks for pointing this out.

[Draco]

Okay, I'll reveal who the charts belong to. This was going to be a long post but I'll just reveal the charts for now.

#1. Adult Movie Star, Andrew Okum, aka 'Al Parker'.

http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/4166/drewokunrs4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Parker


#2. Spiritualist Medium, Jame Van Praagh.

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/7981/jamesvanpraaghwj9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Van_Praagh


#3. Heavyweight boxing champion, Muhammed Ali.

http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/1193/220pxmuhammadalinywtsgz1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammed_Ali


#4. Serial Killer, Clifford Olsen.

http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/9511/olsen2oj9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clifford_Olsen

[Shining Ray]

Oh well didn't do too badly, I got the 1st one wrong, but the personality description I gave seemed to fit the adult movie star but I put down killer. The 2nd chart I was way off I kept focusing on Mars on the 5th cusp, but I did say they were confronting situations of a psychological nature and bringing them into awareness - that's like a psychic. But otherwise completely wrong on the chart :(.The 3rd chart was the easiest for the athlete I thought, the Sun square Mars in 9th, and Sagittarius on the 5th cusp, ruler in 10th gave this one away. This was the only chart I never doubted was the athlete. The 4th chart at first glance looked so weak with the Neptune on the 1st/Virgo Ascendant, but once everybody was picking this out for the serial killer and I looked up the reading in Jeff Greens book for Mars in Pisces, I knew my guess was wrong. The Mars/Venus readings in Jeff Green's book are amazing he nailed the Mars in Pisces Archetype at it's lowest expression, especially for this psycho killer.

I was a little disappointed how I totally messed up on chart number two, I was way off on description. I need a ton of more practice on charts. I will get my boyfriend to pick some charts of the Astrodatabank list and not tell me who it belongs to. Practice a chart a week, all the reading I do with Astrology, but the hard job is applying it.

Very interesting exercise Draco, enjoyed it ;) .

[Shining Ray]

I have looked back on my second chart, and where I said this person will confront sexual confrontations of a emotional and psychological nature to bring it into awareness. I focused on the Mars/Taurus sex side, what I meant to say was this person confronts the senses (Taurus) of an emotional/psychological nature and brings this into awareness. :p

Oh well never mind I called James Van Praagh a sex addict, but he used to be a priest or whatever so the sexual nature must have been detached at some point. So the psychological meaning is the same. Apart from the fact I called him a sex addict and was detached from intimacy. :o That's enough of me trying to claw my way out of a truly terrible interpretation. :rolleyes:

[tsquare]

Tsquare
The other one has a documentary about his life out there and you'll probably find it in Blockbuster....no joke:). I dont want to give the names of the people though.

The "documentary" is more on the funny side though even though it is a documentary. He's quite the personality. :rotflmao:Hes been on TV as well and is a real hollywood socialite, for good or Ill. Not the guy I was thinking of I was thinking of Ron Jeremy.
I saw him the other day on a reality show on MTV that my brother was watching. Hes a pretty funny guy, like if you ran into Ron Jeremy on the street and had a chat or something, the last thing you would think is this guys a pornstar. At first glance you'd probably guess that the guy sold refrigerator maginets or something.

Chart two I was thinking someone who was less in the spotlight and this guys on tv all the time.

Chart 3 I would have never guessed it was Ali although the chart fits him well.

Chart 4: I had a funny feeling but I wasn't sure I was thinking chart 3
I really thought this guy had a bad childhood or something smothering ya know. He doesnt seem to fit the profile I had in mind.

So for me its back to the drawing board somewhat.:)

Thank You Draco for the charts, its been interesting me being a beginer and all, there's so much to learn and unlearn as well.
------------------------------------------------
Tsquare
EDIT: Draco where did you get these charts I like the style there easier to read then I expected at first. Ive seen them before somewhere but dont remember the name of them or where. -Tsquare

[Frisiangal]

Chart 3 :...
If he had had Black Moon Lilith conjunct Jupiter in Gemini in the 10th , he might also have said ‘I’m the greatest’ and changed his name to a more spiritual one, losing his true identity. :D As it is BML forms an out of sign grand trine with Sun-Uranus-Neptune. He may have been the example for others to follow ‘to be just like him’.



You said ATHLETE, Draco ! I honestly didn't associate the chart with Mohammed Ali - ex Cassius Clay - although I had checked his chart during my BML research. I think the BML postion you gave may have been different to the one I have, which I'm sure had Jupiter-BML within a 6 degr. conjunction.

But I did get athlete right.:D 1 out of 4? I'm satisfied.;)

Fris.

[Frisiangal]

:banana: :39: :56:.

For Tim, who got all 4 right! Phenomenal.

Nearly everyone else got 1 right, and A.M, Carole and T-square got 50% right.

I really need to take some lessons from all of you.

That many went for the Porno star in chart 1. That 1st house Mars in Scorpio must have said it all:D.

Congrats everyone.

Fris.

[flea]

I really really need lessons!!! I got not one right, so back to the drawing board for me. Lucky I dont do this for a living.....

Love & Light
Flea

[tsquare]

:53:Begginers pride..... Its useless..... yet I must yell from the rooftops with a bottle of Rum (shirly temple)...(sissy man), being as it may never happen again......

I got em all right!:D

But like flea said, Im glad I don't do this for a living.
My guesses were really, really, really, loose, Tims were spot on, and Im waiting for his mystery chart to slap me in the stupid, grinning face. :87:
=============================
Completely Beginners Luck-Tsquare
EDITOh yeah...good job everyone! Im still going over all of them to see what i missed that everyone else picked up off the charts, and I missed alot of stuff.

[Shining Ray]

Well Done Tim, you Master Astrologer :68:

I was just reading up in my book, on solar eclipses before birth, I have a Pisces prenatal Solar eclipse and this book tells me I am so psychically well developed, I have a natural gift of intuition. My hunches are accurate. I am beginning to think my chart is not working I am sending it back for repair. :p

I am supposed to have these psychic intuitions, yet a Virgo beats me :13:. Oh Well technical skill and analysis won through :D . I am secretly so competitive, I can't bear losing. Even though it's not meant to be about who was right or wrong. I still lost :sulky face: I will be in a mood all day now. :p

[Lissa]

Yesss I got one right!:D Feels like heaven for a lousy beginer like me!

Oh well but I mistaked the medium for the adult movie star...I will now retreat in my room and die in shame for a little bit:o .
And yes,a applause for Tim!:banana: (this was the closest to an applause I could find:D ).

[wilsontc]

all,

Now that I have won, I will have to claim my reward! And my reward is...everyone who guessed HERE coming over to MY thread http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5414 and guessing about the mystery chart! Step right up, everyone's a winner! :)

Drumming up business,

Tim

[Carole]

Draco:

Thank you very much for having given us this great opportunity to put to work what we learn from the books!!!!

Tim:

You have impressed me. Congratulations!:)

Frisiangal:

Thank you and congrats to you too!;)

And congratulations to the rest for your right guesses and the effort!


Carole

[Frisiangal]

Draco,
I demand a re-try due to false information:D.

I checked the birth dates from the website provided and the position of MEAN Black Moon Lilith changes from the positions given by 4-5 degrees in charts 1-3 (otherwise I might have found it a coincidence with Ali:p) and the position in chart 4 is a whole sign! :confused:

:rolleyes: Fris.

[starlink]

Well, finally we know it all!! I am happy to have guessed 50% as well! Especially happy that I guessed the serial killer as being the 4th chart! Messed up the actor and the athlete, but that was difficult! Both very physical, showy and full of themselves! Probably Ali was also most interestedin sex! The medium was actually easy for me, there was no doubt there. I really enjoyed it all. Thanks once more Draco and congratulations Tim! Star.

[astromony]

I wanted to respond to the outcome of this post, if i may. i wrote this response quickly and from pure impulse and i saw the first as athletic, (i should have added handsome) and called him an athlete. The second i called psychic and he is. The third i called a killer, "fly like a butterfly, sting like a bee and i fight like..." And the fourth chart, woo, i called him the **** star and he killed his family and others close to himself. Pluto trine mars, so i guess there is a degree of righteousness about pluto trine mars. Pluto in the eleventh house is in this case a striking out at the group. Somehow all this added up to this person who chose to strike out at others. I wonder what his family was like? Or what kind of care he received? How much does one's nurture or upbringing play into the affairs of life? I appreciate Tim in his clarity around #4's chart.
And now there is so much talk about the shift we are all going through with our entire solar system within the Milky Way Galaxy and i wonder if we all are at a turning point in terms of our ability to altar our DNA, our consciousness at this time. And i think Muhammed Ali is a great example of someone who surmounted overwhelming odds to become the "champion" in life and a great provider for his family and this capricorn lives to tell about it. It's great to find so much resonance within this thread and all of your responses. I feel we are finding out how all of us are part of the same human thread. If we are able to collectively point to an anonymous chart and see these tendancies, what does that say about the fatedness of our lives? And yet these are the ways in which these individuals saw fit to do with what was their "nature". I appreciate the thread and the time each of us spent working on this as a team of astrologers solving a puzzle together.
And one more thought, it would be interesting to find some people with these same birthdays and places to see what they've made of their lives.

[astromony]

Also, i said that the medium was dead because of pluto passing over his moon and saturn and i've had pluto squaring moon and pluto lately. I had an astrologer friend tell me this was a good thing in terms of recognizing my purpose here and yet i have dragged through and dreaded the process. This friend said that it depends on how the planet that transiting pluto hits is configured with the rest of the natal chart and in Van Praagh's case they are in good aspect.

[Draco]

Hi all.

I've been needing to get back on this but haven't been able to access the 'net for a couple of days.

This was a fascinating thread. The real objective of the exercise wasn't to guess who was who correctly as such, that was just a springboard to give inspiration for something to look for. Well done thought who did guess correctly, which I suppose puts the icing on the cake, but the beauty lay in the descriptions rather than the guesses. The beauty of the exercise was in the descriptions given about each person, even when the 'wrong' person was being described, often, what was said could relate very well to the person who the horoscope actually belonged to. A skeptic would say that this is because you could relate just about anything to anybody, but I don't think this is so, reviewing the thread makes this clear.

What some people described was definately easy to relate to whose horoscope it was, things that could be taken for granted, other things were more thought provoking, and that we could never confirm one way or the other. There wasn't anybody that did not have anything of any significance to say. It's so interesting to re-read the thread in light of who the people actually turned out to be, which shows that if the guesses were wrong, the descriptions seldom were.

I wanted to do this, as I used to be only into horary, but now I'm expading my antennae into other areas, and I'm finding natal astrology more and more intriguing, and partly in this exercise, I wanted to see how each person goes about a chart. I never had this with horary, but I hesitate with natal interpretation, lack of confidence I suppose, but everyone else gives it a shot, so I should too. It's just horary is so simple, it cuts straight to the heart of a very specific matter, the answer is usually either, 'yes', 'no', 'probably', 'probably not', and sometimes, 'I've no idea!'. Natal astrology can be infinately more complicated, you can see worlds within worlds in a horoscope, and where do you start, or where do you finish for that matter?

I think that's why I lean to traditional techniques, but Virgo that I am, with a Saturnian Lord, I need a strict method to follow, I need 'rules'.

I think I made a mistake in choosing three types that come under the rulership of Mars. Like many have said, the **** star could still be thought of as 'athletic' in a sense, Ali could still be thought of as a 'killer', in that his career was aggressive and confrontational, so the killer, the boxer and the **** star, probably were not the easiest chart to differentiate. I thought I had picked a good mix, but didn't realise I had selected to many strongly martial types until I had posted, but that's was perhaps my own astrological make-up drawing me toward these types. It's is perhaps the least fashionable planet, but I am thoroughly intrigued by Mars and his charges.

The reason the charts all belonged to men and I didn't mention Okum's sexuality, is because trying to seek out sex and sexuality in the chart would only make it more difficult a task than needs be, I didn't want it to turn into a 'let's find the gay one' exercise, and personally, I don't believe that sex and sexuality can be ascertained in the chart anyway. If you disagree, tell me how you find it.

I intended to put up the charts of four anonymous women next time.

I did intend to compose together everybodies comments in relation to each particular chart, which makes for an interesting compositional analysis, but that would take me ages, although I may do it yet.

Anyway, just popped in to respond, but there's loads of new posts and my inbox is flashing away at me, so I'm off for a read and I'll come back onto the thread later.

t-square, the chart style is Astrodienst, I think it's called 'Kundig style with aspect wheel', and it's available in the drop down list.

Frisiangal. :p My apologies. I really ought to have asked you whether you prefer mean or true nodes, but I thought it was like a Placidus house thing, where nearly everyone uses true. I of course opt for 'true', being the Saturnian Virgo that I am, but I should have asked, sorry. I'll remember in future. ;)

Anyway, I'll pop back to this thread. I'm off to explore a little.

[Draco]

Okay, this is long overdue.

I have decided to compile together parts of everybodies comments in relation to each chart.

What I have done is to select the comments of two types, those that we can take for granted as being relative to the person, according to what they are known for, and those comments, that might relate to that individual, but are purely speculative and we cannot confirm one way or another, therefore, these comments are highlighted in italics, in order to differentiate. I have to use my judgement to differentiate one type of comment from another, but please don't harangue me if you disagree, this isn't the easiest task and it will take me some time. I want to do this because I consider it respectful to applaud everyone for there observations.

Where a person guessed the person's occupation correctly, I have included this. Where the person was guessed incorrectly, I haven't because this was not the main objective of the exercise, and the purpose of this post isn't to show the people up that got it 'wrong', but it's fair to congratulate those got it 'right'.

I have only included statements as to the possible nature of the native, not comments which constitute an observation as to how you came to draw your conclusions, such as 'Mars in Scorpio is conjunct the ascendant', for example, as this doesn't tell us anything, it's just an observation.

Like I say, even where the guess was 'wrong', the descriptions were often eerily applicable to the person who the horoscope belonged to, so here goes.

Horoscope #1: Andrew Okum AKA 'Al Parker', **** star:

Arian Maverick:

...this one particularly indicate themes of fame and power to me, and the possible abuse of it.

...this person has a spiritual goal to focus less upon the limelight and the outside world of fame and prestige in order to retreat into an inner world focussed more upon community than self.

Well, as an exhibitionist he was certainly in the limelight, but for all we know, it may have indeed been his spiritual goal to retreat within, we will never know, so the comment it italicised.

...an emotional need to be held in high regard and prestige

...emotional security through the power of fame.

...this chart to belongs to the adult movie star

...many opportunities to visit strange lands while filming on the various sets of his movies.

Now, what I found interesting about many of the responses was that so many people were mentioning the ninth house in association with travel. Travel may not have characterised Okum's life, but fantasy certainly did, and fantasy is another ninth house concern. So I suppose he did travel to 'strange lands' while filming, in mind and in circumstance if not physically going abroad, which is why I didn't italicise this comment.

Certain houses can mean several things, for example, Muhammed Ali's life was more notable for clashes with open enemies, than for his love life, and yet both lover and enemies are found in the seventh, but how are we to discern whether the seventh will mean more about enemies for some and lovers for others, such as in the chart of Casanova for example? Why is it that in Okum's chart, the ninth pertains more for fantasies than to travel? This is a question I will attempt to tackle when I offer my own analysis of the charts, but I wish to enlist a bit of advice from the members of Skyscript before I do so.

Flea:

...power is an issue.

Lissa:

...comfortable being in the public eye.

As an exhibitionist, we can certainly take that for granted. Although this could relate to Ali and Van Praagh.

Shining Ray:

Maybe this individual doesn't feel he fits into society in some way.

Yes, I'm pretty sure we can take this for granted, he was after all, a homosexual **** star in the seventies.

...a confinement of some sort for this individual.

...his morals right or wrong

Yes, there could be sense in this for a pornographer.

...maybe he breaks the law.

...issues of self worth for this person.

Emotions, anger, can be excessive.

...secretive emotions, destructive emotions

...emotions are controlled

...emotional and sexual addictions

Sex was certainly a great interest, but we can't confirm an 'addiction' as such.

...fears linked with loss, betrayal, abandonment, can create a fundamental fear of intimacy.

Perhaps in relationships if not in sex.

...person must learn the value of emotional and sexual commitment versus following every compulsive desire.

Astromony.

...a strong mothering influence

We just don't know, maybe.

Tim.

...there is an interest in being "on stage" in the outer world

...easiness with sexual performance at an early age

Probably very true, but we can't confirm it or take it for granted, but I would say so, italicised none the less.

Sex is something they are personally active in

...very expansive in their physical relationships

**** star

Astrobhadauria.

...can make killing works

...person always busy in the meeting with lower catogary’s persons

Very interesting comment, but it has been italicised, because whether or not homosexuals and **** stars are 'lower category persons', is a value judgement.

Starlink.

...the actor

Well, **** stars are not renowned for their acting ability, but it's obvious you meant the **** star, so yes.

...he was employed as a moviestar

He could have been a workoholic

...incredibly strong physically, great stamina.

Yes, I decided not to italicise this, if we think of this comment in terms of sexual activity.

...someone who had a secret fear

...showing off his physique

...occupied with your body

...bit of a show-off.

...enormous power in his career.

attractive, jovial sort of man.

Attractive yes, and jovial because I make his temperament sanguine, but that's my opinion, so italicised none the less.

tsquare.

I see person who needs to be in the spotlight and is very athletically able and passionate.

Spotlight and passion indeed, don't know about the athletic ability, but we can still see how it fits.

Im going with pornstar.

Carole.

...lots of physical and psychic energy needing an outlet.

The physical energy we can take for granted, but the psychic energy, we don't know.

...a very strong amorous nature

...may show off

He probably has a narcissistic need to be liked and admired.

Had to italicise this, we just don't know for sure, but he probably was a narcissist, yes.

...could be a cheerful and magnetic person

...making him defensive, insecure, fearful of rejection and underestimate his self-worth.

Again, had to italicise, but this theme crops up again and again.

...clouded perception between reality and fantasy

Good, although italicised none the less.

...mental restlessness and confusion.

...a good deal of intuition but also too much emotionalism.

Twiggy.

Extreme willpower, 'kills' the competition, fights to the last breath.

Frisiangal.

...bring the deep feeling within in a dramatic way to the public.

I felt no need to italicise this, we can take it for granted.

The natural trait to delve into that which cannot be physically seen and touched and give it an existence.

Excellent! Even if you were unwittingly using the 'true' BM. :p

....................

Phew! It was my intention to go through each chart, but I think I will go through the comments on each chart separately as I'm getting rather tired of this now, but well done everyone!

I will go through the other three charts, each in separate posts.

[Frisiangal]

Draco:

Frisiangal:

Excellent! Even if you were unwittingly using the 'true' BM. :p



Not really. MEAN BML was but 5 degrees further in Leo in the case of porno star. ;) :p

[astromony]

Draco, i said about chart #1 "strong mothering influence" because his moon is conjunct pluto in the 10th house. Moon and pluto are conjunct in my natal chart on the cusp of the 8th house and my mother has been a major influence for me and i've had to learn to set boundaries around her tendancy to try and control my life at times. I see i did not clarify this in the post. Your work to put together significant statements about the **** star's character is very thorough. I enjoyed reading it.