Aleister Crowley

[Lissa]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7e/Aleister_Crowley.jpg/180px-Aleister_Crowley.jpg
While trying to study the works of one of my favourite Portuguese poets,I stumbled on Aleister Crowley.I have to say,I didn't know of his existance until last week and I still now very little about him,yet,the little pieces of information I gattered were enough to leave me curious,and I think most astrology lovers will find him interesting too(well at least I hope so:p).Honestly,I found a very interesting bio on this (http://www.controverscial.com/Aleister Crowley.htm) website,I tried to quote it but it didn't work so you can follow the link.

I used the data(October12 1875,at23:30PM,in Leamington Spa,England),to create his birth chart using Astrodiesnt but I'm not sure if the chart is correct;the Astrodiesn't chart showed me a Cancer Ascendant but this website (http://www.voiceofthoth.com/divine8.htm)puts his Ascendant in early Leo.I'm assuming I'm using the correct birth time because a few websites stated he was born near midnight.

I'm stil a begginer to Astrology,so any insight into his chart is really appreciated.What would show his rebellious nature?The unusual life path he followed,is it written anywhere in his chart?

[Lissa]

Forgot to attach his chart:p .

[Sag Moon]

The ascendant is Leo. I say that as I have 3 charts all of which give him a Leo rising.

He has been studied and was an occultist which followed the teachings of Helena Blavatsky. They formed a society at the turn of the century which many became members of that had ideas from runes,tarot and other occult teachings.

I always thought of the whole society as being demonic in nature.

Crowley I believe was an alcoholic and much has been written about him.

Contemporary witchcraft Academics tend to dismiss contemporary witchcraft (known as “Wicca”), at the heart of the modern Neo-Pagan movement, as a silly fad or an incompetent technology, but some now understand it as an emotionally consistent but deliberately anti-intellectual set of practices. Adherents to Wicca worship the Goddess, honour nature, practice ceremonial magic, invoke the aid of deities, and celebrate Halloween, the summer solstice, and the vernal equinox. At the start of the 21st century, perhaps a few hundred thousand people (mostly in North America and Britain) practiced Wicca and Neo-Paganism, a modern Western reconstruction of pre-Christian religions that draws upon the diversity of worldwide polytheistic religions to create a new and diverse religious movement. The rise of Wicca and Neo-Paganism is due in part to increasing religious tolerance and syncretism, a growing awareness of the symbolism of the unconscious, the retreat of Christianity, the popularity of fantasy and science fiction, the growth of feminism, the ascendancy of deconstructionist and relativist theory, and the emphasis upon individuality and subjectivity as opposed to intellectual coherence and societal values. Most modern Neo-Pagans, distrustful of the demands of traditional religions, eschew doctrine or creed and engage in the ritual expression of “symbolic and experiential” meanings. Although Neo-Paganism incorporates the emotional involvement and ritual practices associated with religion into its tradition, many Neo-Pagans prefer to think of themselves as practicing magic rather than religion, and although their emphasis is on opening themselves up to hidden powers through rites, chants, or charms, most do not call themselves “witches,” as Wiccans do. Both Wiccans and Neo-Pagans also have strong ecological and environmental concerns, worship the Goddess and other deities, and celebrate the change of seasons with elaborate rituals. Whether magic or religion, these groups reject intellectual coherence and objectivity in favour of personal experience and dismiss science as well as traditional religion. Although some Wiccans claim to be part of the “old ways” and “ancient tradition,” their religion is new. Wicca is creative, imaginative, and entirely a 20th-century invention, with no connection to ancient paganism or the alleged “witches” of the witch-hunts. No cult of the “Goddess” played a significant role in Western culture between late antiquity and the mid-20th century. Wicca, in fact, originated about 1939 with an Englishman, Gerald Gardner, who constructed it from the fanciful works of the self-styled magician Aleister Crowley; the fake “ancient” document Aradia (1899); the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn and other late-19th and early-20th century occult movements; and Margaret Murray's The Witch-Cult in Western Europe (1921) and article “Witchcraft” in the 14th edition of the Encyclopædia Britannica (1929), which put forth in its most popular form her theory that the witches of western Europe were the lingering adherents of a once general pagan religion that had been displaced, though not completely, by Christianity. Gardner, backed by Murray, who wrote a laudatory introduction to his book Witchcraft Today (1954), fixed this erroneous notion of an ancient witch-cult somewhere in the public consciousness, and it has been nurtured there by Robert Graves's The White Goddess (1948) and innumerable more recent quasi-fictional and fictional accounts. Copyright © 1994-2002 Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc.

[watercolour]

Lissa
Are you using the chart rectified by Fernando Pessoa?
He rectified it and Aleister told Pessoa he was right when he came to Portugal - Cascais ,at the time of the meeting they had - Boca do Inferno Mystery
Now I don't remember the right hour he was born but I can check it. I'm sure I read it!
watercolour

[astro.teacher]

I have included another one of his charts that come from the exact time he states in his autobiography of his birth. It is an hour forward from the one you posted.

[Lissa]

I'm really sorry,I just noticed I was using the wrong birth time:o .I used the birth time I mentioned(I have no idea if it's Pessoa's rectification or not,but his faked suicide was exacly what got me so interest in him),but I inputed the wrong data on astro.com.For now on,it's better to work with the chart Astro.teacher attached.

Looking at the chart,the first thing that caught my eye was the Uranus-Saturn opposition.Saturn represents structure,limitations,authority figures,everything that has to do with tradition,while Uranus is exacly the opposite:inovation,freedom,individualism,breaking the rules.Uranus is detrimental,occupying the first house(he strongly identified with his beliefs),and Saturn is in it's own sign but moving retrograde.Just looking at this aspect,I can tell he had some rebellious tendencies.The Saturn-Uranus opposition makes a t-square to Mercury in Scorpio and,with the retrograde Pluto in Taurus(which is also in detriment,making it even more weak),we have a fixed Grad Cross.To all of that,add a 10th house Neptune(retrograde as well),opposing a dignified Venus in Libra and making a t-square to the exalted Mars.I think his beliefs and the deviant path he took were highly influenced by the energies of the Grand Cross.The t-square with Neptune,Venus and Mars would add a sexual tone to his practices.Also,he has a Yod,with the Moon and Pluto in sextile both making quincunx aspects to Venus,putting even more emphasis on the planet.Venus is also in the4th,a very "intimate" house,related to the most uncounscious things in us,with the Moon in the9th (beliefes and philosophy)and Pluto in the11th house cusp(groups and associations).

Well but I'm only a begginer and I mistaked a criminal for a philosopher on another thread so I may very well be wrong:o lol.

[watercolour]

I will try to do some research in order to know what was the time Pessoa used. All I remember is that minutes and secconds were there!. Then we could look at transits in order to know if in both charts,Pessoa and Crawley, we could find information related to that mistery. What do you think?

[watercolour]

Lissa
Would you mind to translate important information in this url? There you have the time rectified by Pessoa and the agreement of Crowley

"Pessoa, que além de célebre poeta era um competente astrólogo, fascinado pelas ciências esotéricas, envia, neste mesmo ano, uma carta a Crowley, indicando erros em seu mapa natal. Crowley, entusiasmado com o conhecimento do poeta lusitano, contesta sua carta, dando-lhe razão, e expressa seu desejo de conhecê-lo." in
http://www.livrevsa.com.br/site/2006/12/12/aleister-crowley-por-carlos-raposo/

and

De seguida, o passo fulcral: Pessoa dirige nova carta à editora, datada de 4 de Dezembro de 1929, onde entre outros assuntos arrisca lançar a ponte para o contacto com Crowley:
“Se tiverem, como provavelmente têm, oportunidade de comunicar com o Sr. Aleister Crowley, talvez possam informá-lo de que o seu horóscopo não está correcto e que, se ele admite que nasceu às 23h.6m.39s de 12 de Outubro de 1875, terá Carneiro 11 no seu meio-céu, com o correspondente ascendente e cúspides. Encontrará então as suas direcções mais exactas do que provavelmente as encontrou até agora. Isto é mera especulação, claro, e peço desculpa de vos maçar com esta intromissão puramente fantasista no que é, afinal de contas, apenas uma carta comercial.”.
in

http://www.gifi.pt/portal/programs/ewpview.aspx?codigo=MAGIA


I will keep myself busy until I find the letter !!!!!!!
:9: :9:watercolour

[Lissa]

Hi Watercolour!

Thank you for all that interesting information;) .Pessoa really was something!I'm really interested in his chart(I know you are too),but I think most people in this website don't know who he was(I don't think he's a well-known figure to the world,probably just in Portugal,altough I've read several things about him in English and people seem to like him),so let's stick with Crowley...for now;) .

I will try to translate the information you quoted,I can't promise you it'll be perfect but hope you get the main idea.

Just to keep others informed,Pessoa was a great portuguese poet;most people even consider him the greatest.He was also into Astrology and he spoted some errors in one of Crowley's articles,as you will read below.After they got in contact,Crowley came to Portugal to meet him.Although they didn't get along,Pessoa helped Crowley faking a suicide here in Portugal.

"Pessoa,who,apart from being a famous poet was also a skilled astrologer,fascinated by esoteric sciences,sends,this same year,a letter to Crowley,mentioning some mistakes in his natal chart.Crowly,excited with the knowledge of the Portuguese poet,sent him a letter,saying he was right,and expressing his desire to meet him."(http://www.livrevsa.com.br/site/2006...carlos-raposo/ (http://www.livrevsa.com.br/site/2006/12/12/aleister-crowley-por-carlos-raposo/))

"Next,the great step: on December4th 1929,Pessoa sent a letter to the publishing house:
«If you have,as you probably do,the oportunity to comunicate with Mr.Alisteir Crowley,may you inform him that his birth chart is not correct and that if,if he assumes he was born on October12 1875 at 11h06m39sPM,he would have Aries11 on his Midheaven,with the corresponding Ascendant and house cusps(...)."(http://www.gifi.pt/portal/programs/e...x?codigo=MAGIA (http://www.gifi.pt/portal/programs/ewpview.aspx?codigo=MAGIA))


Lissa

[tsquare]

Ok so I dont get it, Is the data above that Astroteacher put up correct, or does this Pessoa guy have the right data, if so could someone please post that, I couldn't get either one of the links Lisa Posted to work and I believe its a personal computer problem I have thats stoping me from geting to it.
If anyone could it would be greatly apreciated. IT would be great to see Crowleys data, I have always wondered just what was up with this guy who call's himself the beast666 and what thats all about really, I get the idea that the real beast wouldnt go arround telling everyone but who knows, mabie Crowley was just dillusional or found himself poessesing a poetic liscense and tried to build some mystery so others would read his books, never know.
I know that Jimmy Page the lead gutarist from Led Zepplin was a big fan of Crowley, and I have also read elsewhere that in Page's Book store, that is mostly concerned with very old Magical works, has Crowley's Birth Chart posted on the wall in a big plaque, If there is other data that is more acurate as far as a birth time that would be VERY interesting in unraveling this fellow crowley that was very interested personally in Astrology.

His order the OTO is still existant which I personally find odd, Mabie its not what it used to be and I wouldn't become involved with them myself but they do have a website which suprised me, and I have run across a fellow that used to be in the OTO himself but he refuses to speak of it in depth.
Mysterys are always what they are, Percistant, and percistant things are what they are....mainly what they do, they stick untill solved then they dissolve, leaving truth, truth is usable and graspable. I used to think Crowley was only interested in Black magic, and demonic entities, Being the massive drug taker he was, and his what seemed at the time to me a intense hatred of the Catholic Church, yet after further reading of crowleys interest's concerning anything supernatural(I throw astrology in with being supernatural) and the Catholic Church's additude towards anything not "Catholic" at that time, and well mabie today somewhat, hard to tell at times, he may have been justified to some extent. The more I've studdied and read of him there may be more to it then what meets the eye, so once again if anyone has more accurate data or theoretically more accurate data I would be very greatfull if you would post it. He IS quite the interesting fellow.
Thank you, Tsquare
=================
Tsquare

[Lissa]

Hi tsquare,

I believe the data Astro.Teacher posted is the correct one.

[tsquare]

Ok so I dont get it, Is the data above that Astroteacher put up correct, or does this Pessoa guy have the right data, if so could someone please post that, I couldn't get either one of the links Lisa Posted to work and I believe its a personal computer problem I have thats stoping me from geting to it.
If anyone could it would be greatly apreciated. IT would be great to see Crowleys data, I have always wondered just what was up with this guy who call's himself the beast666 and what thats all about really, I get the idea that the real beast wouldnt go arround telling everyone but who knows, mabie Crowley was just dillusional or found himself poessesing a poetic liscense and tried to build some mystery so others would read his books, never know.
I know that Jimmy Page the lead gutarist from Led Zepplin was a big fan of Crowley, and I have also read elsewhere that in Page's Book store, that is mostly concerned with very old Magical works, has Crowley's Birth Chart posted on the wall in a big plaque, If there is other data that is more acurate as far as a birth time that would be VERY interesting in unraveling this fellow crowley that was very interested personally in Astrology.

His order the OTO is still existant which I personally find odd, Mabie its not what it used to be and I wouldn't become involved with them myself but they do have a website which suprised me, and I have run across a fellow that used to be in the OTO himself but he refuses to speak of it in depth.
Mysterys are always what they are, Percistant, and percistant things are what they are....mainly what they do, they stick untill solved then they dissolve, leaving truth, truth is usable and graspable. I used to think Crowley was only interested in Black magic, and demonic entities, Being the massive drug taker he was, and his what seemed at the time to me a intense hatred of the Catholic Church, yet after further reading of crowleys interest's concerning anything supernatural(I throw astrology in with being supernatural) and the Catholic Church's additude towards anything not "Catholic" at that time, and well mabie today somewhat, hard to tell at times, he may have been justified to some extent. The more I've studdied and read of him there may be more to it then what meets the eye, so once again if anyone has more accurate data or theoretically more accurate data I would be very greatfull if you would post it. He IS quite the interesting fellow.
Thank you, Tsquare
=================
Tsquare

[astro.teacher]

The time from my chart was taken from his autobiography so I assume he was being honest about that timing and that would be his chart.

[tsquare]

Thank You Both!

[sara31tx]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7e/Aleister_Crowley.jpg/180px-Aleister_Crowley.jpg
While trying to study the works of one of my favourite Portuguese poets,I stumbled on Aleister Crowley.I have to say,I didn't know of his existance until last week and I still now very little about him,yet,the little pieces of information I gattered were enough to leave me curious,and I think most astrology lovers will find him interesting too(well at least I hope so:p).Honestly,I found a very interesting bio on this (http://www.controverscial.com/Aleister Crowley.htm) website,I tried to quote it but it didn't work so you can follow the link.

I used the data(October12 1875,at23:30PM,in Leamington Spa,England),to create his birth chart using Astrodiesnt but I'm not sure if the chart is correct;the Astrodiesn't chart showed me a Cancer Ascendant but this website (http://www.voiceofthoth.com/divine8.htm)puts his Ascendant in early Leo.I'm assuming I'm using the correct birth time because a few websites stated he was born near midnight.

I'm stil a begginer to Astrology,so any insight into his chart is really appreciated.What would show his rebellious nature?The unusual life path he followed,is it written anywhere in his chart?
Thanks for the info, I am reading his book called A Diary Of Drug Friend. This is a very interesting man.

[Michael]

Lissa your discovery of Crowley strikes me as
a synchronicity because I decided to include a
quote of Crowley as my signature before I read
your post. On the surface Crowley seems offensive,
demonic and crazy, however it's all an illusion, he
is much better than that.

Crowley was one of the best theurgists of the
20th century. He created a religion called Thelema,
created the Toth tarot deck with Lady Frieda Harris,
was a great mountaineer and a decent chess player.
Together with Franz Bardon they are probably the
best magicians of this modern age. Anyone want
to help with my Franz Bardon post, nobody has
answered?. :60:

[Liquid Green]

Aleister crowley.............wow what a man......... I wanna meet someone like him ( he wasnt my type to look at).......his leo asc matched with my leo dc.... mmmmm!

[Slenkar]

can astrology tell you if someone is dark/evil ?

he was named 'the most evil man in england' by a judge

[Ekim86]

I don't think astrology can tell if anyone is inclined to evil. It is the persons free will to decide if they want to live there life a "different way." Hopefully this doesn't spawn a huge debate on the topic but I read somewhere that good and evil are human concepts. Homosexual relations for example might be "evil" to some but not to others. If you get my jist. Anyhow back to crowley. I'm a huge fan as you can see the picture :) crowley was a very interesting man. In, "Do what Thou Wilt" the biography of Aleister he was born "tounge tied," something about his manhood also wasn't quit right at birth and at puberty he had 4 hairs pop out over his heart each curling from left to right to form a sawstika. A sign of the beast 666. 666 is a mans number and that number happened to belong to crowley, pretty sure. Very interesting life. He studied the Occult, grimores, the key of solomon kabalah and astrology. Please pardon me if I m wrong on any of this. He was a mountaineer, a poet (mostly writing about his homosexual side in his poety) Philosopher, yoga practioner, author, indeed a fine chess player and a "prophet" to some. This is a man who truley lived his life. Do What Thou Wilt is a term crowley coined which pretty much means do whatever to further your higher self. Also there is a term "love is the law, Love under Will, which better supports do what thou wilt. He was exiled from sicily, or italy, not quite sure. Pretty sure he was big on heroin in his later years. This is the man who put the K in magick. This is because the greek word for genitals is Ketis. or something like that. And crowley was a big fan of sexual magick. I find his books very interesting, but also alittle difficult such as his work in the golden dawn. This is a man that used his knowelgde of astrology as a gateway to almost prove to people that there were crazier things out there. He was great at getting peoples rising sign between a half hour either way. Way to much to write. He also had/has critics. But this man completely dedicated his life to search through the unknown. Read the general principals of astrology, one of my all time favorite books. Sorry for my babble;)

[Moulin]

I think Aleister Crowley is amazing. I don't think he was evil... he just was great with magicK and his tarot deck is still my favourite.

He makes you THINK which is such a profound gift.

[astro.teacher]

Just a tidbit of information, Crowley only reintroduced the K to magic. It had been a K for many years prior, you can see that every example in early modern english, Magic is spelt Magick. This was before standardized spelling (which meant you spelt words as they sound). After standardized spelling was introduced, magic was spelt without the k (there are quite a few words that dropped the extra K when C was present). I dont mean to make this a point of debate, just wanted to point out that he reintroduced it to the community.

[Slenkar]

he claimed that his last book wasnt actually written by him, he says a mysterious being stood in the corner and dictated the book to him.

Does his last book have the same language style as the others?

[Moulin]

he claimed that his last book wasnt actually written by him, he says a mysterious being stood in the corner and dictated the book to him.

Does his last book have the same language style as the others?

Just like the Kiron books, which are fascinating!