Thoughts on Magi Society Synastry Aspects?

[StarNur]

Anyone study or experience any of the Magi Society synastry aspects, like the Juno-Chiron long-term (or lifetime sexual) linkage, or the Juno-Venus mistress (or ultimate sexual) linkage?

Do you find any validity to them?

[Moondance]

I had my chart reviewed with my X'x, and I found the aspects cited to be very true, not only the sexual ones but the ones involving Saturn/Pluto/Chiron. Nevertheless, they are certainly a bunch of freakazoids.

[IntoAstro]

Who are they?

[Moondance]

They are a group of astrologers who have developed their own theories and system of analysis, and are somewhat rigid in their thinking, but have produced some interesting results. If you are interested, google for their website.

[Jupiter Rocks]

Why do people that don't understand things always get so insulting? Horary has a strict set of rules that have to be adhered to otherwise answers to questions would be continually wrong. If the Magi Society is getting good results with their work, which you have said regarding their accuracy then how is that bad? They are proving their method works. I don't understand where you are coming from with your comment. Haven't you heard of diversity and 'different but equal'? It applies to all walks of life.

I am a member of the Magi Society and I haven't read or seen anything that constitutes 'freakazoid' - just well laid out rules for a system that works - like horary.

[Sweet Stars]

Why would thy be freakazoids if everything they told u was spot on?

[archergirl]

I've had a look at the website. It seems most interesting and is certainly worth investigating. I'm not sure I'm ready to fork out 80 bucks for the privilege just yet, but I may when I'm feeling flush. Their interpretation of aspects is a little different from traditional astrology, but that doesn't mean it's all bunk... just a twist on it.

[astro.teacher]

Still can't get around the lack of houses. Seems like they haven't done thier research. Though they do state that thier astrology can be used by people with no birth time, so maybe it's all part of a marketing ploy to steal paying customers (without no birth time) from existing traditional astrologers.

When you dont have a birth time, you cant use Houses because the time helps you line up the Houses. If you go to Astro.com and type in "Unknown" for birthtime all you get is Signs. In my opinion that is quite incomplete. It makes things a lot more difficult when you dont know what area of life Planets are focusing in (a ill debilitated Planet in the 9th is a lot different then one in the 5th).

If someone doesnt know their birthtimes they can rectify it themselves. Its quite a simple process (and there are 3 main methods of doing this). I have these listed on my website;

http://antiquus.50webs.com/Birth.html

They are pretty simple. Try it out and verify your birthtime. They are suposed to be used together in order to verify correctly.

[Moondance]

I just saw some folks reaction to my terminology, and I'm a bit surprised. after all,"freakazoid' is pretty tame. The reason I feel this way about them is because they have a reputation of enforcing rigid "thought
control" and not allowing people to question. I find their work interesting,and of value- I don't have to like them.

[Svencanz]

Hi Coffee,

I'd like to comment on Magi Astrology and houses, please.
You say the do not use houses: they do, but they have not yet told us how.
The reason they tone down houses in their standard astrology is two-fold.
A - they see it as a potential source of error. (And many astrologers don't even agree on what system to use, even if time is nailed. I use Koch.)
B - they see houses as secondary in importance to aspects: to study a chart's aspects, they say, you have to look at both geo and helio, including declinations and latitudes respectively. You then also look for midpoints: and you do that with natal, progressed, and transits - and their combinations. So you're not going to run out of data in a hurry.
For me, I have seen absolute verification of transits to my angles - no mistake there; I can also see validity in my house placements, using Koch.
The predisposition of Magi Astrology to not use houses is not a VERBOTEN, so to speak. To them, it's just secondary in importance.

[Svencanz]

Hi again,

I have Chiron co-ruling both the teacher signs, Virgo and Sag. There is so much to say about this, but primarily I feel the Aquarian Age will set Virgo free, somehow. The sign has been heavily suppressed during the Piscean Age, mainly due to the Christian focus. And Virgos are so sensitive to their mutable body needs: pity then that Christianity only has females as either virgins, mothers, or whores. What happens, of course, is Mercury gets carping, and we have the dissatisfied nag to contend with.
I think the Magi Society has made the choice to not reveal their way of doing houses for the following reason: if you go into a bakery and there's a fluffy, pink cream cake to the left, you are likely to ignore the grey hardbread in the right corner.
Many astrologers are simply too attracted to the house debate to have time to look at aspects seriously.
Just another thought about the signs: the whole sustainable living scenario we're now getting into is right up the Virgo alley, so to speak. I think this is great for the sign, and I can see much joy coming out of this for Virgo.

[barbh]

I hosted the Magi Society to give a lecture here, and one of the 'head guys', named Ken, did give us great insight. I don't agree with their take on Juno however. They see Juno as the 'mistress' asteroid, but I have certainly found it to be active as a marriage timer. (mistress may not be their word, but it was along those lines). He did give us some info into their background, and how they, and only they, hold the secret times and dates to many important events in history. He said that they safeguard these secrets, because if they got out, then too many people would have access to knowledge that they may not necessarily do good things with. In my opinion, they do good work and have given us new insight, but they come across as very scientology-esque in their attitude. They don't believe that knowledge is free for everyone, only for people who share their beliefs.
I've used the chiron to venus neptune and saturn aspects for a while, and they do seem to work in synastry. Especially that saturn chiron one.....watch out for that one! As for timers, Chiron transiting to Venus by parallel or conjunction does not always bring about a love opportunity, as I've seen with myself and many of my friends. In fact, I've never seen it do that. They say it does however.
I always check their website now and again to see what's now in their research, at least the research they are willing to share with us. I do think it's valuable, but I don't overlook their incredibly patronizing attitude either. I take the info and then see if it fits for me.
barbh

[Moulin]

I like Magi. I am a member. In fact Magi got me into astrology.

I believe in their belief system of Chiron and Juno. I can of course only speak from personal experience but l analysed all my past relationships with Magi and nearly all of them had Saturn/Chiron clashes or Nuclear clashes.

I was born with a cinderella parallel aspect of Chiron/venus in declinations and in my synastry with my man we have these aspects (all at 3degrees, with geo declinations at 1.2deg and helio declinations at 0.3deg as allowed by Magi).

Chiron trine neptune geo - lifelong cinderella linkage
Chiron trine neptune helio - lifelong cinderella linkage
chiron paralell venus - cinderella magical aspect
chiron opposite venus - no idea what this means!

I do know that in a first meeting chart, if one has a saturn clash then it can be negated by marrying on a good day!

For instance with my man we have these transits on our first meeting charts

his chiron quincunx T saturn
his saturn quincunx T venus
his saturn square T chiron
his chiron contra paralell T saturn
his saturn contra parallel T venus
These are not good aspects and can only be negated by marrying on a good day!!!

He also had
Chiron quincunx jupiter - cinderella aspect
chiron parallel venus - cinderella magical aspect
venus parallel neptune - lifelong cinderella aspect

Whereas l had on that day
NO clashes

Romantic golden transit
chiron Quincunx venus - cinderella aspect
Chiron contraparallel venus - not sure if this is a cinderella aspect
Saturn contra parallel venus - not sure what it means!
Chiron trine juno - lifetime mistress aspect

So one looks at the 1st meeting and says "well we have cinderella aspects which is GOOD.
However, the chart for the actual day we met had:
Chiron parallel pluto - cinderella linkage
Chiron quincunx mars - marriage linkage
BUT we had these disasterous linkages ---
Saturn trine jupiter which is either a nuclear clash or bond (not sure which)
saturn trine jupiter (again not sure if good or bad)

OK so the above was an example of how Magi works... the ONE problem l have with Magi is that one day they say "saturn trine chiron" or "saturn trine jupiter" is a BOND and then on another chart they say it is a CLASH!
One is much worse than the other and this is where l get frustrated with Magi. They change the goalposts all the time LOL

On the other hand, the cinderella and lifelong linkages l really believe in and there is something magical about meeting someone during one of these aspects, whilst having them yourself on that day AND also having them in your synastry.

Hope l haven't confused you by this post :p

(don't get me started on the sexual aspects/linkages and their meaning!)

[Moulin]

Look out for mystical triangles too... l have 2 with my man - (my chiron trine his neptune (which also conjuncts his neptune) square my jupiter quincunx my chiron) and (my chiron (conjunct my venus) trine his neptune square my jupiter quincunx his chiron)

A Mystical Triangle is formed by three planets where one side is a trine, one side is a square, and the third side is a quincunx. A mystical Triangle in a CAC is very powerful and creates a very high level of mutual attraction. In Magi Astrology, the Mystical Triangle that is the most powerful in creating love and romantic attraction is the one that is formed by the three Magi Romance Planets. There are three Magi Romance Planets and they are Chiron, Venus and Neptune. So when it comes to love, a Mystical Triangle formed by Chiron, Venus, and Neptune is the most powerful of all possible Mystical Triangles and they are signs of nearly irresistible mutual romantic attraction. Such Mystical Triangles are so powerful and important that we give them a special name - we call them Romantic Mystical Triangles.

A Romantic Mystical Triangle is a Mystical Triangle formed by the three Romance Planets (Chiron, Venus, and Neptune). A Romantic Mystical Triangle is extremely rare. The average woman or man never gets a chance to date anyone with whom she or he forms a romantic Mystical Triangle. For more information go to: http://www.magiastrology.com/madonna_leone.htm

[Moulin]

Maybe this will help Coffee :)

http://www.magiastrology.com/first_visit.htm

http://stockmarketcompass.com/lessons/heliocentriclesson1.html


"don't shoot me down in flames" ;)

[Moulin]

Why are you now moving the goal post when you originally asked why they don't use houses!!!!!

I gave you the info so cough up with your answer ABOUT THAT, not by trying to deflect LOL

:P

[Moulin]

But yeah, this section is about aspects, so I will go sit in naughty corner and not rant.


Come back Coffee, i'm interested in your views.... plus l only meowed - it's not like l roarrrrrred at you :)

[Svencanz]

Now children,

I think we need to remember that astrology is BIGGER than many other things we come across.
The beauty of Newtonian mechanics is that it will yield the same results no matter what person uses it, where they are, and what time of day it is.
The beauty of astrology is the opposite.

Because astrologer A, who uses a technique AA, comes up with a certain result for client AAA, does not mean that astrologer B using BB for client BBB is wrong. It's just one of those things.

Astrology has more in common with Alchemy than it does Newtonian physics - even if we use Newtonian to calculate the positions of the planets.
We all know that modern physics takes the observed into account, with that Heisenberg stuff; then the string theory, Copenhagen group and causaility stuff (cant remember the new name for this right now) - but basically, the Newtonian physics is collapsing around us as we speak. It can only be used in the subset of reality where it makes sense.
The rest of the world is probably much more like Castaneda said it was.

I say none of this lighly. My recent decision to fade ot client work is because of this, I see astrology as a "participation" event rather than a consulting one. I can't be bothered doing astrology for clients anymore.
I want every man, woman and child on this planet to become an astrologer.

[Svencanz]

barb,

Only just now saw your post: I am right with you there.
Part of the difficulty the MS suffer is in the presentation area; I still have not figured Juno out fully.
Their software (I have both the new and the old version) is also very cumbersome to use. I have set SF up to do Magi Astrology and it works a charm. Only very few things I cannot do, like declinational MDXs.
Saturn-Chiron is without a doubt working, but, like you say, the Venus-Chiron stuff is more obscure, at least in my practise.
I met a woman with whom I had FOUR Venus-Chiron enhancements in geo, maxed out, thus. While there was an "episode" she certainly did not turn out to be "the one". Was in fact never on the agenda.

[Charm]

The link does not work.


When you dont have a birth time, you cant use Houses because the time helps you line up the Houses. If you go to Astro.com and type in "Unknown" for birthtime all you get is Signs. In my opinion that is quite incomplete. It makes things a lot more difficult when you dont know what area of life Planets are focusing in (a ill debilitated Planet in the 9th is a lot different then one in the 5th).

If someone doesnt know their birthtimes they can rectify it themselves. Its quite a simple process (and there are 3 main methods of doing this). I have these listed on my website;

http://antiquus.50webs.com/Birth.html

They are pretty simple. Try it out and verify your birthtime. They are suposed to be used together in order to verify correctly.

[Charm]

I don't understand how the Magi generate their charts? They look like sine waves. What type of charting system is this?

[Svencanz]

The Sine Curve part is the declinational movements of the planets; most serious astrology software, like Solar Fire, calculates these positions. You do not need to get the special software to begin studying Magi Astrology.
The declinations are part of what they call "the second chart" - because important aspects, parallel and conta-parallells, form here as well. Use a 1:18 or 1:20 orb for declinational aspects.

[Moulin]

Hi Kevin,

Thanks so much for giving some of your time to answer my questions on Magi aspects.
It is a subject that l could talk endlessly about and in some ways l wish that the Magi members had their own forum, as l and others would surely learn a lot! Plus, seeing as we pay for a membership the Magi's would automatically understand that we are serious in our approach, enabling a respectful and evolving 'area' that in time, would become a fountain of knowledge.

I find your words regarding the Saturn-Chiron opposition interesting as l literally just yesterday drew an horary question of "is he the one for me?"
I'm starting to feel this Impossible Dreams Clash already. Not good. It's like eating a bad oyster, ruins the whole experience.

Luckily l now listen to my intuition, having ignored it in the past and finding myself in a **** of a mess, which was exceedingly difficult to extract myself from so l appreciate your explaining this to me immensely.

Saturn trine Jupiter sounds like a really awful coffee after a rotten meal !

Thank you again for clarifying these aspects. I shall make a note of them.
Anything else that you think is relevant to share, i'm all ears :)

(sorry, ...not sure where all the food analogies came from!)

Moulin

Hello Moulin,

I’m very well versed in Magi Astrology and wanted to share with some of my comments on the aspects you posted between you and your loved one.

Chiron opposite Venus is referred to as impossible dream clash, it is not in and of itself necessarily a deal killer in a relationship however, it does indicate some sort of fundamental incompatibility issue and a feeling the other person is may not be THE one for you..

Rather than say a Saturn Clash in a first meeting chart or in a CAC (synastry) with a natal chart can be negated by an auspicious wedding chart, I would use the word mitigate. The Magi believe that in relationship astrology nothing can be negated and there is no aspect cancelation. However, there can be some mitigation with a well chosen marriage chart that can reduce the impact of the turbulent aspect(s), but they never go away completely.

Venus parallel Neptune is a delicious romantic aspect signifying an enduring romance, but it is not a Cinderella aspect.

Chiron contra-parallel Venus is indeed a Cinderella aspect.
Saturn contra-parallel Venus would be a Saturn Clash and it would be classified as a turbulent aspect.

Saturn trine Jupiter is a Saturn linkage and it’s always been labeled a Saturn linkage (as has Saturn trine Chiron). Yet, the Magi have said that it is the worst linkage you can have between two people, or an event and a person, and in many ways it is worse than a lot of non-Saturn clash aspects. Specifically, Saturn trine Jupiter promotes poor choices and bad decisions.

I hope that helps to clarify some things for you.

Cheers,
Kevin

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

I agree with coffee in that I find the Magi Society's discontiuned usage of houses to be very unsettling. The ability to deem one of the four main 'pillars' of astrology as nonsense due to mathematical complications is ridiculous if you ask me. Perhaps they also use it so as they do not have to chance using incorrect house significations, which seems to be very popular these days. So, not only do they project their confidence, they also cover their backs, but rub astrology the wrong way by deciding to omit a particularly important quarter of astrology while apparently over-advertising a second fourth.

I'm always interested in all things related to the Quartet, but was disheartened when I noticed it seems they only revere Juno while omitting the rest of her group. Also, I've never seen much sexual to do with Juno, so I would indeed like to see these instances. Perhaps it's just me having a Virgoan Juno, but she is conjoined to my Descendant and in relationships sex is the last thing I'm after. I also have Venus in Virgo, which may factor in as well, however in my early days of astrology, I read several things that suggested this placement made sexual relationships very attractive to me. They are not. -.-'

I also find the usage of the heliocentric system to be philosphically unsound. To put it simply: we do not live on Sol. We are not concerned with how the sky appears in relation to Sol. We are not held to the same positions and aspects on Earth as the ones that appear on Sol.

[Moulin]

[deleted entire post, since it was attacking another member and did not add any new astrology to the discussion - Moderator]

"Loving yourself is the greatest gift you can receive, so give it to yourself every day".

[Svencanz]

Hi Senshi,

"I also find the usage of the heliocentric system to be philosphically unsound. To put it simply: we do not live on Sol. We are not concerned with how the sky appears in relation to Sol. We are not held to the same positions and aspects on Earth as the ones that appear on Sol."

That would be true if you were a totally grounded person (as in soul grounding) on Earth; but if any of us were, it is unlikely we'd bother with astrology or this forum.

Meanwhile, the Sun is the life-giver, the power source of our existence.

Sven

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

That would be true if you were a totally grounded person (as in soul grounding) on Earth; but if any of us were, it is unlikely we'd bother with astrology or this forum.

That's a lot of speculation, but in the end, I guess that's all Magi astrology is anyway. Admittedly, I don't know anything about it, so excuse me if I say something that shows my ignorance, I'm not trying to fool anyone with any projected superiority on the subject. I don't really see what bringing the soul into it has to do with making heliocentric astrology work. There is a branch of astrology similar to this, and it's called Draconic, in fact I think it's like a sub-branch of Karmic astrology, I'm not really sure.

The only thing heliocentric charts show are astrological conditons concerning life and events on Sol, but I really don't think there are that many. Even then, you have the problem of "carry-over astrology" which is sort of discussed in other threads concerning astrology from other planets.

Meanwhile, the Sun is the life-giver, the power source of our existence.

I...don't understand. How is that conducive to your point?

[El_Nagual]

I´m new to this "magi astrology" but i'm reading that the don't use houses and use heliocentric positioning?? :(, that is a bad sign.

I find the best house system is the topocentrical and if not posible, then placidus, the houses represents the position of some fixed stars in relation to the birth's positioning. So a system that is not taking them in account is surely speculation.

Beware of false mesiahs...

[Icplanets]

Hi Moulin

Thanks so much for giving some of your time to answer my questions on Magi aspects.

You are quite welcome.

It is a subject that l could talk endlessly about and in some ways l wish that the Magi members had their own forum, as l and others would surely learn a lot! Plus, seeing as we pay for a membership the Magi's would automatically understand that we are serious in our approach, enabling a respectful and evolving 'area' that in time, would become a fountain of knowledge.

The Magi Society had a forum several years ago called Modes. Sadly it was not immune to the core issue that disturbs most forums; a select few who are unable to detach their ego from their ideas. The Magi leadership became concerned about some breaches in decorum, which was not even close to the rancor you would see presently in many forums, but none-the-less the occasional lack of civility gave everyone pause, and upon reflection the leadership felt it best to pull the plug. Although the idea of reconstituting a Magi Society member’s forum has been entertained, currently the focus is aimed at multiple ongoing astrological research projects and adding even more functionality to the various software products available to members.


I find your words regarding the Saturn-Chiron opposition interesting as l literally just yesterday drew an horary question of "is he the one for me?"
I'm starting to feel this Impossible Dreams Clash already. Not good. It's like eating a bad oyster, ruins the whole experience.


I believe I was referring to Venus opposed Chiron as the Impossible Dream Clash. But your analogy is absolutely spot on. When your attention is diverted, I may not be able to resist the urge to pilfer it.


Luckily l now listen to my intuition, having ignored it in the past and finding myself in a **** of a mess, which was exceedingly difficult to extract myself from so l appreciate your explaining this to me immensely.

Saturn trine Jupiter sounds like a really awful coffee after a rotten meal !


More like trying to make anchovy pizza taste better by adding copious amounts of salt.


Thank you again for clarifying these aspects. I shall make a note of them.
Anything else that you think is relevant to share, i'm all ears :)


Moulin, I have not examined these charts of yours and you really have to look at everything in totality to get an accurate picture. That being said, I urge you to be quite sober about the Saturn clashes your man had on the day you met. At face value it would indicate an inauspicious time to initiate anything of importance, such as a relationship/romance and that perhaps he was not yet prepared (unresolved past issues, lifestyle incompatibility, diverted focus, lack of overall clarity on what he really wants, etc…). Also, make note that when you have juxtaposed transit to natal aspects such as what exists with his chart with T Saturn Clashing with N Chiron as well as T Chiron clashing with N Saturn, the Magi refer to these as Double Focus Clash aspects and the power is multiplied by a factor of 4. Then you also have a Bi-level Clash (Saturn-Chiron Clash in both in longitudes and declinations) on top of that which further indicates this heartbreak energy is very pronounced.

(sorry, ...not sure where all the food analogies came from!)

I thought they were scrumptious. :D

Cheers,
Kevin

[Icplanets]

Hi Coffee,

I’ve been reading your comments and thought I’d chime in


It's a little different to standard western astrology

I would say it is dramatically different.


There needs to be some better research done by non-magi to assess what is good and what should be thrown away. You can't really knock thier research, its more the presentation.

I agree with the research. In fact, not one astrologer or scientist has ever contacted the Magi Society and attempted to refute (with their own research) any of conclusions of the Magi Society research that have published in their books.



One of the 'rules' which gripes me is the absence of houses.
Big No-No. Or is that just me fearing what I studied will be called into question?


This is a popular objection and I’m glad you brought it up. Let me preface my comments with some background. Magi Astrology is a researched based methodology. Very much like evidence based medicine, the Magi have no tolerance for sacred cows and only pledge their allegiance to astrological methodology that can be verified and validated through carefully designed research studies. The reason no one has even tried to refute the research results in their books is because it is indeed tremendously thorough and accurate research. IMHO, it is THE most significant element that explains why so many people are attracted to Magi Astrology. When you adopt its methodology the efficacy is quite remarkable. The proof is in the pudding.

In that vain, the Magi Society has researched every single house system and found that not one single house system, not one, has any statistical validity. Planets do not behave differently in houses, nor do houses affect the symbolism of planets to any degree other than chance.

This leads us to the number one problem/challenge in astrology. Everything works. All you need is a large enough sample group and you can find examples that every technique works. So, you cannot say house systems do not ever work, because with enough examples, you can come up with a representative group that proves your point. It won’t however exceed the statistical level of chance, but it will certainly give you examples to illustrate your point. However, when put house systems under the scrutiny of universally accepted scientific research parameters, house systems do not cut the mustard.

What the Magi Society is promoting is that when you use techniques that work more at least 2/3 of the time, and you combine them with other techniques with the same or better results, then you can get very accurate overall results with your astrology. Remember the Magi hang their hat on the accuracy of their methodology The Magi are not trying to be contrary here, if house systems were valid you can bet your last dollar they would using them.


Though they do state that thier astrology can be used by people with no birth time, so maybe it's all part of a marketing ploy to steal paying customers (without no birth time) from existing traditional astrologers.(evil cackle of world domination)

Coffee, I am a former marketing executive and I will assure you that while the Magi Society has a number of truly brilliant core competencies, marketing is not one of them.

One of the stated goals of the Magi Society is to prove to the scientific community that astrology really works. Because of all the issues around birth times, it was imperative from the beginning to make birth times a non-issue and not even give the scientific community an opportunity to form objections on that issue. Do the Magi use exact timed charts when they have reliable data? Of course they do, but they can also do magnificent astrology without it.

Cheers,
Kevin

[Svencanz]

NOTE to Moderators - point of order

Moulin has once asked if we were allowed to discuss Magi Astrology on this forum; the reply was affirmative.
So, could we please stop the "I don't understand it - so it does not work," posts. I know little about horary, but I do not disrupt their threads because of that. People who do not like, understand Magi Astrology can do that elsewhere, so to speak.

I say this with a bit of fear in my heart, because I don't know if those interested in Magi truly understand what a boon it is to have Kevin here.

Let's pretend to be grownups.

Sven

[Moulin]

Hear Hear on both posts.

I know what a boon it is Sven to have Kevin here, and l think that for those who have nothing positive to say, l say "if you don't like what's cooking - go to another restaurant!" lol
(what is it with me and food analogies?) :P

I think it would be great if everyone left and l was alone to pick Kevin and Sven's brain's forever! haha

Actually, as far as l know - i'm the only Magi lover in here, apart from you too. Actually, l got into Magi as l couldn't find my birth time and it was so accurate that l stuck with it.

Now l know my birth time it makes absolutely no difference at all, except now l know my large stellium is in the 9th house.

I would love to be able to have serious discussions about Magi here for those whom are interested, and without (as Sven says) "people always walking in and creating a disruption".

Mouuuulin :D

[Moulin]

Interesting to note that for 39 posts, this thread has had 638 views :D

I guess some members must be interested in it!

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

So, could we please stop the "I don't understand it - so it does not work," posts. I know little about horary, but I do not disrupt their threads because of that. People who do not like, understand Magi Astrology can do that elsewhere, so to speak.

Well, I apologize. I didn't realize my questioning and reasoning rattled your cage so much. Of course we can discuss Magi Astrology, but I didn't realize the invitation to discuss was open only to like-minded members. I figured my hole-poking would initiate some interesting discussion and explaination of the methodology used by the Magi astrologers.

I guess that was too much to ask for.

Only after getting several remarks expressing concern and confusion as to the Magis doing away with houses did Keven feel the need to explain the reasoning behind this drastic decision. Now, I'm expressing concern about the philosophies of heliocentric astrology and I'm waiting for someone to tell me why the Magis look at this. Or, perhaps did you already explain it in its entirety in those few sentences from before? Perhaps I'm expecting it to be over-complicated, but that's usually how I am.

I do not understand it, so I'm asking questions. That's generally how people learn, right?

So yes, let's pretend to be adults and explain our reasoning for things and not get pissy when someone asks a question, expresses concern about an issue, or challanges reasoning behind something. If you can't explain it, then why adopt it?

I would love to be able to have serious discussions about Magi here for those whom are interested, and without (as Sven says) "people always walking in and creating a disruption".

Well, I thought it was a pretty serious discussion. A discussion would include a conversation about the strengths and faults of a system as well as anything else directly - or sometimes indirectly - involved. That's exactly what was going on. But, whatever.

Still interested in hearing the reasoning for the usage of heliocentric astrology. Is it really just "soul-based" or is there something more to it?

[Moulin]

Kaiousei no Senshi,

Please can you explain how it is possible for you to have a serious discussion about a subject that you openly admitted to knowing nothing about, and yet you were still able to judge it's credibility whilst hold a blinkered view?

I find that kind of rationality incredulous and nothing but a complete joke, as it is impossible to judge an individual or a society of professionals without having understood both sides of the coin! lol

Can we also keep defensiveness off this thread please because it is not about 'tit for tat' and 'throwing one's toys out of the pram' when the answers are not to your liking.

Thank you.
Moulin :)

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

Please can you explain how it is possible for you to have a serious discussion about a subject that you openly admitted to knowing nothing about, and yet you were still able to judge it's credibility whilst hold a blinkered view?

Certainly, I ask a question, get an answer, discuss the answer (redefining areas of uncertaintly, judging contradictions, weighing philosophy, etc.) and if possible ask another related question. By the end of the discussion, I learn something. That's what's important, don't you agree?

Can we also keep defensiveness off this thread please because it is not about 'tit for tat' and 'throwing one's toys out of the pram' when the answers are not to your liking.

Well, it was obvious the post was about me, so I responded to it. *shrug* I got defensive, yes, because I was pretty much told my questioning and whatnot wasn't welcomed here. So, I do apolgize for being defensive, but it's not as if I imagined the 'assault'.

The answers are not to my liking, so I'm asking more questions to help expand the answer until I can understand it fully. Which leads back to the question: "Why do the Magis use heliocentric astrology?"

I understand their complaints with the houses, there are several systems and they each have their merits and they each have their problems, but the idea that planets do not operate differently in different houses is a completely different story. Regardless, I understand and sympathize with their plight with the houses, even if I am uncomfortable with their ultimate choice. That is, after all, their choice.

So, now I'm hoping to do the same with their usage of heliocentric astrology. I do not understand it's philosophy and find it unnecessary, but perhaps when my question is answered it'll click like the reasonings for the lack of houses did.

Again, I did not think it was that much to ask.

If you would answer my questions instead of digging into my sides this would go a lot smoother.

[Moulin]

Well l am truly sorry if you feel that i'm digging into your ribs Kaiousei but l think that your post (below) and the way you phrased it kind of says to me that your mind is already made up with deeming Magi to be 'speculative' and therefore not worthy of your attention.

"it is impossible to know the contents of a closed book"

This is not personal Kaiousei, so lets try to be open-minded about Magi shall we?, especially seeing as it's ground-breaking attitude toward astrology is so accurate.

May l ask what is the most positive thing that you have learnt about Magi so far?

That's a lot of speculation, but in the end, I guess that's all Magi astrology is anyway. Admittedly, I don't know anything about it, so excuse me if I say something that shows my ignorance, I'm not trying to fool anyone with any projected superiority on the subject. I don't really see what bringing the soul into it has to do with making heliocentric astrology work.

[Icplanets]

Hello Barbh

I don't agree with their take on Juno however. They see Juno as the 'mistress' asteroid, but I have certainly found it to be active as a marriage timer. (mistress may not be their word, but it was along those lines).
The Magi do indeed state that Juno rules the mistress. The Magi have not found it all to be a marriage timer. In fact, they have found it to indicate the initiation of affairs and non-marriage relationships that are primarily centered around sex. When you say, “I have found” is that in a systematic, generally accepted scientific research kind of way, or more so just you looking at random charts?

In my opinion, they do good work and have given us new insight, but they come across as very scientology-esque in their attitude.

Having had clients who were ex-scientologists, I would very much challenge that statement as wildly reckless hyperbole that is inflammatory, inaccurate and unsupportable.

They don't believe that knowledge is free for everyone, only for people who share their beliefs.
Brabh, This is a blatantly false statement and once again you make a claim not in any way supported by the facts.

The Magi have one of the largest, most extensive “free” websites available on the internet, http://magiastrology.com/ (http://magiastrology.com/) Included on that site are substantial amounts of “free” information detailing the conclusions of many of the Magi Society’s comprehensive research studies. In addition, they now have nearly the entire text of there third book “Magi Astrology; The Key to Success with Love and Money” available for “free” download in .pdf format. They provide the public with “free” monthly calendars that indicate the best days to initiate activities as well as the days to avoid. The offer a “free” star scope everyday showing the real life view (rather than in horoscope from) of the sky and planets relationship to the stars.

Please share with me all of the groundbreaking new research, unveiling here-to-fore unknown astrological secrets, that astrological research organizations such as ISAR or NCGR has shared free with the public since 1995? This is not a dig at either of those organizations of which I am a member, it is an observation that over the years many of the members of those groups have sold for-profit books, software, trainings etc…rather then give all of their original work away for free through the organization.

Also please share your ideas on why it is perfectly acceptable for companies such as Boeing, Intel, Toyota, Microsoft, Apple, BMW, Phizer, GE, Dupont, etc…… to have proprietary technology and intellectual property that can benefit humanity and they are allowed to charge and profit from their hard work in which they invested considerable time and resources, and yet the Magi Society must conform to different standard.

The Magi have offered many free gifts of information to the astrological community and there are others that are a privilege of a very reasonably priced paid membership, and still others that require various levels of certification. However, to imply or infer the Magi Society is not generous with the astrological community is just plainly the perpetuation of a falsehood.

As an aside, I come from a corporate background, and so I will readily admit much of the culture of the astrological community was foreign to me when I became a professional astrologer. However, I have never in my life been exposed to so many individuals who have the expectation and the sense of entitlement that everything should be free. I am aghast at the numbers of astrologers who abhor compensating others for their time and effort.

As for timers, Chiron transiting to Venus by parallel or conjunction does not always bring about a love opportunity, as I've seen with myself and many of my friends. In fact, I've never seen it do that. They say it does however.

Oh my goodness Barbh, you are warring me out….Never, ever has the Magi Society said any aspect “always” does anything. Chiron transiting Venus can indeed symbolize a love opportunity, among several other things within the valid range of symbolisms for that aspect, none of which “always” happen when that aspect is within orb.

Cheers,
Kevin

[Icplanets]

Hello Again Coffee

What have they done that no-one in astrology has done before? please list

Original Concepts:

The concept that Retrogradation of all planets (asteroids, commetoids, plutino’s etc…) is helpful and beneficial an overwhelming majority of the time, completely refuting the mercury retrograde is always problematic nonsense.
Quantifying the power of double direct, double retrograde, and bi-directional aspects
The entire theory of Maximum Overall Planetary Balance (which in my opinion is the most best irrefutable proof of astrology and more particularly planetary geometry ever published)
The categoration of the most beneficial and/or helpful natal aspects (Super Aspects, Cinderella Aspects, Sports Champion Aspects, etc….), midpoints (the formidable dozen), interaspects (Golden Linkages, Silver Linkages, Cinderella Linkages)
Multiple planetary symbolisms, but most prominently those with Chiron, Juno, Ceres, Vesta and Pallas. All of which are completely different than what is commonly used within the traditional astrological community
Specific interpretations for certain geometric shapes such as the Mystic Triangle, Dragonized Mystic Triangles, Flying Eagles, Iron Butterflys etc…
Specific characteristics of quincunxes and how they operate in different environments
A proprietary ranking of planets by level of influence when comparing two natal charts in a CAC of a romantic couple
Romantic Super Linkages and how they indicate the potential for marriage.
The principle of Enhancement Dominance
The sequencing of Magi Quad pairings by power and helpfulness.
Interpretation guidelines for Aspected Magi Quads
Time orbs and magical timeCoffee, there are many more, but that will get you started. Of equal importance is the refinement (i.e. midpoint theory, planetary symbolism, the difference between natal chart and event charts) of many astrological principles as well as the testing and rejecting of many traditional astrological techniques and methodologies that are not reliable.

BTW, I would love to know what other astrological organization/group has delivered more than the Magi Society (since their first book was released in 1995) that would qualify as information or techniques “no-one in astrology has done before.”

Cheers,
Kevin

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

May l ask what is the most positive thing that you have learnt about Magi so far?

Apparently that they are very accurate and take a more scientific, statistical based look at things than most other 'types' of astrologers do. This could be very useful in the future as astrology continues to be assaulted by the scientific and skeptical minded. Numbers never lie, they say.

I know you didn't ask, but I felt I should offer up the most negative thing I see so far. That being I see Magi astrology as a sort of one-trick pony. It seems to only be useful in nativites and such judgments and personal predictions that stem from them. The lack of houses would totally destroy any attempt at horary, electional, event, or mundane astrologies, so I find that a little...strange.

[Moulin]

:D "one trick pony?" ok...
Is that the sequel to "The Art of Deflection?"

Thanks for giving me a roundabout answer to my question. I am happy to hear your negative views because hopefully Kevin will answer you, and l will in turn learn more about Magi so it all works out positively in the end!

[Icplanets]

Hi Kaiousei no Senshi
I agree with coffee in that I find the Magi Society's discontiuned usage of houses to be very unsettling. The ability to deem one of the four main 'pillars' of astrology as nonsense due to mathematical complications is ridiculous if you ask me.
Actually, it’s not complicated at all. It’s evidentiary
Perhaps they also use it so as they do not have to chance using incorrect house significations, which seems to be very popular these days. So, not only do they project their confidence, they also cover their backs, but rub astrology the wrong way by deciding to omit a particularly important quarter of astrology while apparently over-advertising a second fourth.
I assure you with the highest of confidence that when the Magi were reviewing the results of their house system research; they were not endeavoring to upset you or anyone else. Clearly, the traditionalist astrologers considered such talk blasphemous and labeled the Magi Society heretics. The reaction reminded me very much of the fable “The Emperor has no Clothes.”
'm always interested in all things related to the Quartet, but was disheartened when I noticed it seems they only revere Juno while omitting the rest of her group.
Absolutely not true. The Magi have discovered symbolisms for Ceres, Vesta, and Pallas as well.
Also, I've never seen much sexual to do with Juno, so I would indeed like to see these instances.
It’s all right here: http://magiastrology.com/

I also find the usage of the heliocentric system to be philosphically unsound. To put it simply: we do not live on Sol. We are not concerned with how the sky appears in relation to Sol. We are not held to the same positions and aspects on Earth as the ones that appear on Sol.

This is analogous to telling your doctor you have absolutely no interest in a medication’s efficacy and ability to cure what ails you, rather you are only interested in medicine you can grow in your back yard.

Heliocentric astrology works marvelously well as does not using any houses in a horoscope.

Kaiousei no Senshi, I teach and tutor many students in Magi Astrology methodology and I will tell you in an overwhelming amount of circumstances that people who were originally exposed to traditional astrology, western astrology, vedic astrology, classical astrology etc...do not have the ability to fully embrace Magi Astrology until they have gotten to the point where they have found that the system they are using is lacking. If you do not feel the astrological system you are using is lacking, then I highly recommend you keep on doing exactly what you are doing, and run as fast and far away from Magi Astrology as you can, it will only disturb your peace of mind. If at some point in the future you find your system lacking, you might want to come back and investigate the Magi Astrology way, perhaps you will find something of value then.

Cheers,
Kevin

[Svencanz]

Hi all,

Just a note about "free stuff".
A forum like this one is, indeed, one of the great places to get knowledge for free. The internet is a great invention.
During the first few years of doing process work, I was definitely in "the red", with seminar costs, training courses and literature.
But I carried on, and was ultimately able to recuperate many of those costs - now being in a position to say I "have made money" from doing readings etc, even been paid to travel internationally to lead seminars.
Thus, doing this type of work is not unlike anything else. You have to invest, study before you become "a master". A master being a "trade qualification" in this regard, as opposed to Master of the Universe. :)
Similarly, investing time and money into understanding a subset of any technology is really a required to be able to intelligently discuss it.
With the internet, and forums like this one, everybody can have a voice - and I can't tell if I am speaking to a Nagual that has studied 30 years with Don Juan, or if I am talking to a novice. Just one of those things.

Sven

[Moulin]

The internet and forums like these are a real melting pot, aren't they Sven...
as you say.

You could be the reincarnation of King Arthur and l could be Genghis Khan, reincarnated. HA! :D

[Svencanz]

Dang,

Now I feel really exposed.

Arthur

[Icplanets]

Hi Kaiousei no Senshi
Well, I apologize. I didn't realize my questioning and reasoning rattled your cage so much.
To be factual, your only question was about Juno and its impact on sexuality, other than that you shot from the hip with uneducated, uninformed opinions about a methodology you admitted you know nothing about.

Kaiousei no Senshi, I’m here to be helpful and would be happy to answer earnest questions. Frankly, I have low tolerance for uninformed rhetoric. If you have genuine questions and you are sincerely interested in Magi Astrology, then ask away. I’ll do my best to assist you.
I figured my hole-poking would initiate some interesting discussion and explaination of the methodology used by the Magi astrologers.
However, I am way too busy to bother with hole-poking. If you are looking to provoke for self-entertainment, kindly go grace another thread with your presence.
Only after getting several remarks expressing concern and confusion as to the Magis doing away with houses did Keven feel the need to explain the reasoning behind this drastic decision.
The USA declaring war on Iraq was drastic. The Fed bailing out Bear-Stearns was drastic. The Magi saying the house systems are unreliable was akin to medical science saying that blood letting wasn’t really that helpful to the patient.
Now, I'm expressing concern about the philosophies of heliocentric astrology and I'm waiting for someone to tell me why the Magis look at this.
Because it works. It holds up under scrutiny. It is statistically relevant, reliable, and repeatable. Start here: http://www.stockmarketcompass.com/lessons/heliocentriclesson1.html (http://www.stockmarketcompass.com/lessons/heliocentriclesson1.html)
Well, I thought it was a pretty serious discussion. A discussion would include a conversation about the strengths and faults of a system as well as anything else directly - or sometimes indirectly - involved.
I love that kind of discussion and I very much look forward to a time in which you have thoughtfully investigated Magi Astrology and you have an educated opinion on the subject matter at hand and lots of well thought out questions that produce an engaging interchange of ideas.

Cheers,
Kevin

[Moulin]

:D

oh god i'm so sorry... l had no idea you were living a parallel life :O

Dang,

Now I feel really exposed.

Arthur

[Looking to Jupiter]

NOTE to Moderators - point of order

Moulin has once asked if we were allowed to discuss Magi Astrology on this forum; the reply was affirmative.
So, could we please stop the "I don't understand it - so it does not work," posts. I know little about horary, but I do not disrupt their threads because of that. People who do not like, understand Magi Astrology can do that elsewhere, so to speak.

I say this with a bit of fear in my heart, because I don't know if those interested in Magi truly understand what a boon it is to have Kevin here.

Let's pretend to be grownups.

Sven

I dont think its ok for anyone here to talk about anything, that they cant back up. The whole of astrology has roots....something that seems to be ignored. In the interest of keeping people on there toes and so people are not just finding bits of astrology to fit in with what they want to see, I think it is important to question each other and our methodology.
I actually think this is a very grown up discussion.....I cant see the problem here.

[Icplanets]

Hi Kaiousei no Senshi


I know you didn't ask, but I felt I should offer up the most negative thing I see so far. That being I see Magi astrology as a sort of one-trick pony. It seems to only be useful in nativites and such judgments and personal predictions that stem from them. The lack of houses would totally destroy any attempt at horary, electional, event, or mundane astrologies, so I find that a little...strange.

On the contrary. Magi Astrology works exceptionally well with electional, event and mundane astrology, as you will see from the examples on the Magi Society web site.

However you are correct in that Magi Astrology does not translate to horary.

Cheers,
Kevin

[Icplanets]

Hello Looking for Jupiter
I dont think its ok for anyone here to talk about anything, that they cant back up.
Look, we are all not perfect and I know I for one make mistakes on a regular basis. For me it’s not about having to be absolutely correct with everything you say, it’s that you are making the effort to make an informed post. As I had posted earlier to Kaiousei no Senshi, I’m most interested in conversing with those who demonstrate an earnestness and a genuine interest in the topic. I felt coffee had a genuine interest and openness, so I replied. Moulin and Sven are serious students and I have all the time in the world for them. If there is misinformation, and I have more correct information I will tend to refute or re-direct the mis-informed post. There are others who have spewed rhetoric and contributed nothing and I, for one, choose to ignore them.
The whole of astrology has roots....something that seems to be ignored.
Looking for Jupiter, I will say I disagree with that thought. IMHO I feel the astrological community has spent way too much time fiddling with outdated methodology. Ask your physician how much medicine has carried over form the 1920’s, ask an psychologist how much psychology has carried over from the 1920’s, ask an evolutionary theorist how much that discipline has changed since Darwin, ask an astronomer how much of their work is the same since Neptune was discovered, I could go on and on, but you will find most of those disciplines carry over way less than 10% of the earlier knowledge. And most of these scientific realms seem to be able to transition much easier than the astrological community, when new and better methodologies are introduced. We are indeed in a unique situation with astrology in that it is an ancient discipline and more carriers over with us than with others. However, IMHO we attached to way too much that has been replaced with better ideas.
In the interest of keeping people on there toes and so people are not just finding bits of astrology to fit in with what they want to see, I think it is important to question each other and our methodology.
I think questions are great. We were all new to astrology at one time. If I can help point someone in the right direction, I will. I’m not so keen on the people who want to be spoon fed and don’t want to put in the time to get at least a base, a foot hold so to speak, with the subject area being discussed.

I actually think this is a very grown up discussion.

I do to.

Cheers,
Kevin

[Looking to Jupiter]

You sound like you know what you are talking about, and have made choices in your beliefs that have obviously come from some investigation. Your words hold weight. Hopefully you know where I am coming from........

cheers
Kylie

[tsquare]

Icplanets,

(mouth drops open)
Well this looks intersting....:)...
First I have come across this......
The use of Declinations looks very interesting allthough I am not to sure as to what they are or how they are used.
Why have I never heard of this before and why are you here now, when I know absolutely nothing on this?(laughs)
I wouldn't mind being able to fomulate a decent question.

Ok..
How about the new books, how are they comming along, any word on a release date?
Those look interesting since they are to contain some new data on Chiron and heliocentric astrology.

I'm not sure what to make of it.....
I cast a heliocentric chart in astro earlier today just to get a look at it...it was my natal,
mars conj. uranus in scorpio, venus conj. chiron. in aries......everything is so differnet(laughs)....mercury in gem trine jupiterin libra.

How much can be told from a simple natal chart done in heliocentric.....?
Alot of what is on the sight seems to deal with synastry charts with the use of Declinations.

One of the main reasons I started to look into astrology had to do with understanding it's influence, which seems to me to be somewhat material, somewhat immaterial, the body being material, and somehow modifying the psychology of an individual. through odd inmaterial ways.....it seems to be the forefront of the psychology of the individual, but this throws in questions of free will, and determenism, also karma, and responsibility....which all seem to be awarenesses of individuals...and even have higher harmonics.
i have avoided nearly everything but natal, trying to find a basic workable theory as to which subltle body astrology effects, and the why and how, mainly the how, Karma is a fuzzy word......I cant help but notice that astrology does somehow effect DNA, and genetics, I want to say through a subtle body somewhat...

I have had OOBS, (out of body experiences), while not under the use of drugs, or any type of shocking experience, While awake, aware, while walking the street, and in the past, have wanted to tie these up somewhat with astrology, being that astrology may have been an influence, mabie the alighnment of energies making it possible to "wiggle" up and out of the body and it's fields, Recall is fuzzy in me as far as pinpointing a specific date, time is no problem of it's occurance, it was at 10:30 roughly, but the date is tough.(laugh)
It's a rough area in memory...being there were large variations in time subjective and otherwise...lots of intersting things....

I was wondering what Magi Astro. had to offer as far as possibly the balancing of energies or working on energies. If it would be much I would possibly pursue the subject as a study......I have a distaste for the fatalistic viewpoint of some astrology and have wanted to lean more towards the study of transformational astrology. I see fate as the awareness that subawareness agreements determine the future, and that in a way that leaves out the aspect of free will......I realize that there is a subconscious, yet in bringing the subconscious to the concious awareness...funny things happen, will is oft returned, and some agreements are no longer...

I see reality as basically agreement, and agreement as one of the basic causes of reality, and not only subjective.
Therefore I see subawareness agreements as agreements that one has oft forgotten one has made or one has made and even broken....and therin lies the bad karma....or good karma of an individual.
subawareness agreements that are interacting by "inpercieveable" fields, creating what we often experience as attraction or repulsion.....or even perception modified by the subconcious......Creating our "destiny"
and that is where I usually get lost.

I have seen fields arround bodies before, I have also modified them at will, at know, while exterior to them as an awareness, changed things arround, never been able to do it inside, but astrology often seems so hardwired, as if these things are fixed and that the moment of some things inception seems to define the basic charectoristics it will have till it's demise or end....it is very finite, semingly.


So....yeah...I was wondering what type of remedies are available through Magi Astro, karmic or otherwise, and if you have been able to pinpoint specific days when things like "meditation" would be more benificial or effective.
Tibetan Astrology looks intersting as far as remedies but wouldn't know where to begin there as well.


Thanks,:)
Tsquare


PS:Hope I haven't ran this off in a different dirrection,
If this is fairly off topic I will pull it.

[Svencanz]

Hi T-square,

Sven butting in here. You have a really valid question there; I, too, have had some pretty far out experiences, and I have looked at the astro for that after starting with astro. For some of the wierdest experiences, I unfortunately do not have date or time.
I'll tell of one example: while out walking dog, I stopped to pick up a small branch for throwing for dog; as I did this, a huge branch (about 100 kg) broke and dropped down on space where I would have been, had I not stopped.
Coming home, I found this took place exactly when t Pluto was exact t-square :o my natal Mars-Venus opp, with Asc movements being trigger.
Spooky, huh?

By studying helio, you are essentially getting another angle on the same object, much in the same way that a big 18-wheeler truck will look different from different perspectives. There are also some slight differences in 'flavour' with the Magi, I blieved, saying helio is especially valuable for financial predictions... from memory.
However, there are other completely different schools of astrology that use helio for specific "lines of inquiry" - but I won't mention those here.
Part of the beauty with astrology, is every astrologer can build their own tool kit, so to speak; and to start deciphering "far out" experiences you might well want to start with a broad tool kit, then narrowing it down to what really works for you as your experience grows.

Sven

[Svencanz]

Looking to Jupiter - you miss my point

"I dont think its ok for anyone here to talk about anything, that they cant back up. The whole of astrology has roots....something that seems to be ignored."

What if I jumped into some horary thread, saying: "I don't really believe Mars could say where your lost scissors are. I thinkg it is stupid. And how could possibly the Descendent point to where your boyfriend is?"

(Or whatever - like I say, I have not studied horary.)

That's the level of intelligence some of the Magi criticism has been - sort of an expectation for the person would go back and define what the Sun is before anything can be said.

Something might have roots even if you are not aware of those roots: Magi Astrology certainly has.

Sven

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

On the contrary. Magi Astrology works exceptionally well with electional, event and mundane astrology, as you will see from the examples on the Magi Society web site.

How though? Without houses, it becomes impossible as much of the symbolism is lost, with very little ability to differentiate between one thing or the other. I can guess a couple of ways this might work out, but that's about all they are.

However, I am way too busy to bother with hole-poking.
This translates to "I don't hold up well under scrutiny"... moving on.

There are others who have spewed rhetoric and contributed nothing and I, for one, choose to ignore them.
I'm getting the feeling that you don't think I'm a serious astrology student, for some reason. I read something and voiced my problems with it, I didn't realize this didn't constitute a serious student... Your usage of the word "rhetoric" also seems to suggest a level of automatic superiority of your views when compared to others.

I assure you with the highest of confidence that when the Magi were reviewing the results of their house system research; they were not endeavoring to upset you or anyone else. Clearly, the traditionalist astrologers considered such talk blasphemous and labeled the Magi Society heretics. The reaction reminded me very much of the fable "The Emperor has no Clothes."

I never considered they would be purposefully trying to get a reaction out of people, and ultimately it is their choice of what they do or do not want to do. I just find it difficult to swallow that houses can be thrown out and no one seems to bat an eye, disregarding several thousands of years of house signfication development. Apparently they thought they were important, but nowadays, not so much?

Absolutely not true. The Magi have discovered symbolisms for Ceres, Vesta, and Pallas as well.

Awesome, thanks, will certainly look into that. :)

This is analogous to telling your doctor you have absolutely no interest in a medication’s efficacy and ability to cure what ails you, rather you are only interested in medicine you can grow in your back yard.

This is a very bad analogy. Using heliocentric astrology is like living in the United States and driving on the side of the road as they do in Japan and England. Those traffic laws have nothing to do with the ones of your country. The astrological laws of a solar-based chart are not similar to those of a terrestial-based chart. You suffer from 'carry-over' astrology, which doesn't seem to add up.

Those are things that most people don't really think about, which is understandable. I would be interested in seeing more things concerning heliocentric astrology, but I think I'll just stay in my 'protective bubble' of traditional astrology and move on with my decumbiture studies.

Kaiousei no Senshi, I teach and tutor many students in Magi Astrology methodology and I will tell you in an overwhelming amount of circumstances that people who were originally exposed to traditional astrology, western astrology, vedic astrology, classical astrology etc...do not have the ability to fully embrace Magi Astrology until they have gotten to the point where they have found that the system they are using is lacking. If you do not feel the astrological system you are using is lacking, then I highly recommend you keep on doing exactly what you are doing, and run as fast and far away from Magi Astrology as you can, it will only disturb your peace of mind. If at some point in the future you find your system lacking, you might want to come back and investigate the Magi Astrology way, perhaps you will find something of value then.

Thanks for answering my questions by the way, and Magi astrology probably would have been much more fascinating to me two years ago when I went through that phase. However, now I personally don't see much in it, so I'm judging it's not for me, which is just fine. :)

Thanks again!

[Svencanz]

Senshi,

"Thanks for answering my questions by the way, and Magi astrology probably would have been much more fascinating to me two years ago when I went through that phase. However, now I personally don't see much in it, so I'm judging it's not for me, which is just fine."

So therefore, would it work if you posted stuff on what you do, in threads for that, rather then telling us what you do not do?

Does that make sense, even to you? (Judge Judy quote)

Sven

[Looking to Jupiter]

What if I jumped into some horary thread, saying: "I don't really believe Mars could say where your lost scissors are. I thinkg it is stupid. And how could possibly the Descendent point to where your boyfriend is?"

(Or whatever - like I say, I have not studied horary.)
Well I am not perfect, and I will admit when I am wrong(most of the time anyway:D), but I can certainly back up with history, the things I believe about the methodology of horary.....so thats what I would tell you if you jumped into a horary thread.....and guess what...you'd probably learn something too.....
(and your always welcome to sven)

I guess I have this idea that people get defensive, when they dont have a clue why they believe what they believe, and thats what got me to post on this thread....I know I do....and then I have to shrink back into my hole and do some more investigation or just shut up. Icplanets, gets my kudos here, as he seems to be able to back up what he is saying although, it doesnt interest me much....and thats fine......

I am not spoiling for an arguement here, but no wonder astrology is seen by all my friends (the handful that I have) as a load of rubbish......do you get what I mean....

I hope you learn whatever it is you want to learn here on this thread, no hard feelings I hope.....(us aussies and kiwis have always been close buddies havent we? lol)

kylie

[Svencanz]

"I guess I have this idea that people get defensive, when they dont have a clue why they believe what they believe, and thats what got me to post on this thread"

For me it is not about "believing" - it was three years of studying Magi Astrology theory, then spending one year validating it through personal and mundane events: clocking up a 100 per cent track record of predictive, including predicting Bush would not catch Bin Laden, but that something would go very wrong on exact date in the US - this turned out to be Capitol closing due to anthrax. Also predicting major stock crash for Air New Zealand, down to the day, etc. etc. la-di-da - using my own tool box, which now consists of about 85 per cent Magi.
Then, in part-time practise seeing more than 3000 paying clients, as well as keeping studying mundane events - having thousands of such chart in my database.

So for me it is about "practice" - not believing; I can't do everything, so I therefore have never studied horary. That does not mean I have any opinions about it. I guess you could call me wise in that way. :)

If I do get irritated at times, which I do in real life as well, it's because I suffer from an allergy to stupidity. Criticising something you do not know anything about, from a vantage point of something else, falls into that category. I am sorry to say.

Sven

[Looking to Jupiter]

allergy to stupidity....well get your antihistamine out, cos there is lots of it around....

I am sorry if you feel i am taking the mickey here.....i am sure your studies have been very thorough, and you also deserve kudos, but i would just think twice before sticking up for someone elses studies ;)

As for getting irritated....well glad to see I am not the only one....

Please enjoy your discussion

[Svencanz]

When I began testing if Magi worked for me, I had just entered a relationship that appeared "fantastic" and Composite supported my view.
Anyway, learned this woman was an alcoholic three months into the piece, and I had some of my most disgusting times.
When I checked what Magi synastry said about the relationship, it hit the dynamic on the head.
So I ceased using Composite after that - although I understood it pretty well.
But that has not meant I critisise Composite, just that I left it alone.
Different strokes for different folks - as they say.

Sven

[Moulin]

As for getting irritated....well glad to see I am not the only one....

Please enjoy your discussion


LOL!
What is irritating you, Kylie?

Thank you, we will enjoy our discussion of other people's 'studies'

[Looking to Jupiter]

nothing is irritating me at the moment really moulin, i was just referring to svens comment of getting irritated at times...its refreshing to know I am not the only one...thats all:)

[Moulin]

I hate to be the one to break the bad news to you Kylie, but l think you'll find that the whole world suffers from 'irritation' of some form or another :rolleyes:

nothing is irritating me at the moment really moulin, i was just referring to svens comment of getting irritated at times...its refreshing to know I am not the only one...thats all:)

[Svencanz]

Now a drum roll - for something completely different...

Sven reveals his most successful marketing trick of all time.. :eek:
(I was never after kudos, just the money.)

What really helped me build up a successful astrology practise, was to offer a full money back guarantee. Some people are hesitant about astrology; some people are hesitant about me (for good reason.)
By telling them that I'll do the reading without them handing over money; that they can choose whether they want to pay afterwards, things went much easier.
Out of those 3000 clients, 3 did not pay. One of those readings I terminated during it, as the woman was so blocked in her head she gave ME a migraine. The migraine lifted five minutes after she had gone. I remember she was planning to become a cop - I sincerely hope she was not accepted.

Sven

[Looking to Jupiter]

durr!, but some of us HAVE to hide it in certain places.....ya get what I am saying?

[Looking to Jupiter]

Now a drum roll - for something completely different...

Sven reveals his most successful marketing trick of all time.. :eek:
(I was never after kudos, just the money.)

What really helped me build up a successful astrology practise, was to offer a full money back guarantee. Some people are hesitant about astrology; some people are hesitant about me (for good reason.)
By telling them that I'll do the reading without them handing over money; that they can choose whether they want to pay afterwards, things went much easier.
Out of those 3000 clients, 3 did not pay. One of those readings I terminated during it, as the woman was so blocked in her head she gave ME a migraine. The migraine lifted five minutes after she had gone. I remember she was planning to become a cop - I sincerely hope she was not accepted.

Sven

ive done the same with tarot.....too scared of my own abilities.....ended up getting a "donation" on every person i ever "practiced" on......
this is so not the right place for this discussion though....(tim please just delete, i dont want it moved)....but i cant pm this stuff so, what am i to do?

[Moulin]

well, no.
Hiding is for pussy's... to be truthful. I never hide from anything; especially not myself. I only want to learn everything once, you see?
Magi is the same way... it doesn't hide either :)

Do l detect your old self starting to emerge again? :eek:


durr!, but some of us HAVE to hide it in certain places.....ya get what I am saying?

[Looking to Jupiter]

Do l detect your old self starting to emerge again? :eek:
No i dont think so.....

[tsquare]

Hi T-square,

Sven butting in here. You have a really valid question there; I, too, have had some pretty far out experiences, and I have looked at the astro for that after starting with astro. For some of the wierdest experiences, I unfortunately do not have date or time.
I'll tell of one example: while out walking dog, I stopped to pick up a small branch for throwing for dog; as I did this, a huge branch (about 100 kg) broke and dropped down on space where I would have been, had I not stopped.
Coming home, I found this took place exactly when t Pluto was exact t-square :o my natal Mars-Venus opp, with Asc movements being trigger.
Spooky, huh?

By studying helio, you are essentially getting another angle on the same object, much in the same way that a big 18-wheeler truck will look different from different perspectives. There are also some slight differences in 'flavour' with the Magi, I blieved, saying helio is especially valuable for financial predictions... from memory.
However, there are other completely different schools of astrology that use helio for specific "lines of inquiry" - but I won't mention those here.
Part of the beauty with astrology, is every astrologer can build their own tool kit, so to speak; and to start deciphering "far out" experiences you might well want to start with a broad tool kit, then narrowing it down to what really works for you as your experience grows.

Sven


This makes sence to me, it is too bad I don't have the date, I may be able to get it some time in the future, when the area starts to unravel and straitin out in recall.....it will be fun to see what transits were taking place at that time.
I hate to even think this was just a one time deal though simply caused by some planetary alighnment....if so i feel slightly robbed.(laugh)
It wasn't so much a far out experience, it was as natural as breathing, probably even more so, that is why it is so odd to me...everything I come across as far as OOBS is always so dramatic and negative where people freak out after them or something odd happens..or often people are sleeping when they hapen then they wake up..thats the other one....so I don't know what to think about it anymore...

So I tend to leave my calling card whereever I go, Call me if you know of OOBS and astrology, not boobs and astrology.(laugh)
Finding data isn't hard, it is turning it into information that can be tricky.....it's like walking into a blizzard of google while I have time.

This wouldn't be my only reason for looking into Magi Astro. I have grown to like the subject of astro in general, and have often been suprised by it, I must admidt at times slightly taken aback and disturbed....


About the big old 18 Wheeler you speak of, I can see that, but can not comment much. I wish I knew more on this, but I am not much for rote memorization or know about, and that is what it would take to have a chat at this time, mabie later.:)


Thanks for the reply, Cheers,
Tsquare

[Icplanets]

Hi tsquare

(mouth drops open) Well this looks intersting....:)...
First I have come across this......The use of Declinations looks very interesting allthough I am not to sure as to what they are or how they are used.

You can download the first 14 chapters of the “Love and Money” at http://magiastrology.com/ (http://magiastrology.com/)
(near the bottom of the home page underneath the picture of the book’s cover) it has a primer on declinations in chapter 7 and it expands on their use in Magi Astrology.


Why have I never heard of this before and why are you here now,
While I have occasionally visited this forum in the past, I was invited to participate by another member. My expertise is Magi Astrology and not to sound too singularly focused, but I really do not have the time or interest to participate in any other subject matter. I was pointed to this thread by my dear friend, and I thought I had something to contribute.
Ok..How about the new books, how are they comming along, any word on a release date? Those look interesting since they are to contain some new data on Chiron and heliocentric astrology.
Not sure exactly what you a referring to….the Magi Society books are all out of print, but all can be acquired on the used market. They are all quite desirable and fetch a good price. Their third book, “Love and Money,” as referenced above, has the Chiron information. I’m not aware of plans to publish any new books. Most new info will be decimated on the website.

I'm not sure what to make of it.....I cast a heliocentric chart in astro earlier today just to get a look at it...it was my natal, mars conj. uranus in scorpio, venus conj. chiron. in aries......everything is so differnet(laughs)....mercury in gem trine jupiterin libra.How much can be told from a simple natal chart done in heliocentric.....?
I think Sven was able to handle that for you in his post

I was wondering what Magi Astro. had to offer as far as possibly the balancing of energies or working on energies. If it would be much I would possibly pursue the subject as a study......
I think you will find that this methodology has the potential to facilitate what you want to do, but you will need to be patient and work through the more pragmatic levels and develop proficiency to get there.
I have a distaste for the fatalistic viewpoint of some astrology and have wanted to lean more towards the study of transformational astrology. I see fate as the awareness that subawareness agreements determine the future, and that in a way that leaves out the aspect of free will......I realize that there is a subconscious, yet in bringing the subconscious to the concious awareness...funny things happen, will is oft returned, and some agreements are no longer...
I think you will find the Magi philosophy more in keeping with your own thoughts. The Magi do not believe in fate. We believe that every soul is born with free will and you always have the opportunity to make a different choice. And, we believe God answers prayers. Put those two together and the concept of fate is incompatible.
So....yeah...I was wondering what type of remedies are available through Magi Astro, karmic or otherwise, and if you have been able to pinpoint specific days when things like "meditation" would be more benificial or effective.
Days with Sun, Moon, and Earth in applying enhancement aspects with Jupiter, work very well for meditation. You want very close orbs for the optimal experience, usually within a day of the aspect being exact. Also, time periods when transiting Jupiter is applying to natal Saturn at any 30 degree angle, although enhancement angles are more powerful, tend to be very helpful for increased spiritual awareness and expanded consciousness.

Best of luck to you on your journey,
Kevin

[tsquare]

You can download the first 14 chapters of the “Love and Money” at http://magiastrology.com/ (http://magiastrology.com/)
(near the bottom of the home page underneath the picture of the book’s cover) it has a primer on declinations in chapter 7 and it expands on their use in Magi Astrology.


Downloading.

While I have occasionally visited this forum in the past, I was invited to participate by another member. My expertise is Magi Astrology and not to sound too singularly focused, but I really do not have the time or interest to participate in any other subject matter. I was pointed to this thread by my dear friend, and I thought I had something to contribute.
Thank you for sharing. I was simply poking fun at myself not knowing how to properly formulate a question on Magi. Astrology. Haha.


Not sure exactly what you a referring to….the Magi Society books are all out of print, but all can be acquired on the used market. They are all quite desirable and fetch a good price. Their third book, “Love and Money,” as referenced above, has the Chiron information. I’m not aware of plans to publish any new books. Most new info will be decimated on the website.
From here,


http://www.magisociety.com/index.html


Near the bottom of the page under --Information about Magi Society--.



Astrology Really Works!
(first printing: July 1995)
COMPLETELY
SOLD OUT!

All printings of this book are completely sold out and the Magi Society has reacquired the publishing rights to this book from the original publishing company. The book contains secrets of Magi Astrology not available anywhere else, not even on this website. The book has become a classic. Used copies of this book are available on the Internet and some specialty bookstores. At this time, we have no intention of reprinting this book because the book did not include Chiron or heliocentric astrology. Officers and members of the Magi Society are writing a new book (that includes Chiron and heliocentric astrology) to replace this book and we will publish the new book at a future time when the stars are right.
The Magi Society Ephemeris Including Secrets of Magi Astrology
(first printing: November 1996)
COMPLETELY
SOLD OUT!
This book has also become a classic but here also, the Magi Society has no plans to reprint it because this book did not include Chiron or heliocentric data. However, the book did include 100 pages of text that revealed secrets of Magi Astrology not available from any other source. Used copies of this book are also available on the Internet and specialty bookstores.


Something to look forward to whenever that may be.

I think you will find that this methodology has the potential to facilitate what you want to do, but you will need to be patient and work through the more pragmatic levels and develop proficiency to get there.
Ok.


I think you will find the Magi philosophy more in keeping with your own thoughts. The Magi do not believe in fate. We believe that every soul is born with free will and you always have the opportunity to make a different choice. And, we believe God answers prayers. Put those two together and the concept of fate is incompatible.
Ahhh...


Days with Sun, Moon, and Earth in applying enhancement aspects with Jupiter, work very well for meditation. You want very close orbs for the optimal experience, usually within a day of the aspect being exact. Also, time periods when transiting Jupiter is applying to natal Saturn at any 30 degree angle, although enhancement angles are more powerful, tend to be very helpful for increased spiritual awareness and expanded consciousness.

Best of luck to you on your journey,
Kevin

Interesting, I will keep this in mind. Thank you.:)
I had thought neptune would possibly be more an influence, and was looking forward to a upcoming time when I have transiting neptune sextile natal neptune,--transiting neptune trine pluto conj mars-- transiting neptune trine natal venus--

Overall, Magi Astro. is something I will have to look into at a future time.
I most deffinatly will take a further look.
It does seems it would take some dedicated study to use it effectively.
Interesting and informitive, and I'll be sure to read through the E-book.
Thank you for your time, Cheers:)
Tsquare

[Moulin]

Magi really is so amazing... I just did the synastry of myself with my 1st true love. I still am not totally over him, sort of like a saturn bond there.

Anyway, in our Geo synastry alone we have:
saturn conjunct venus
venus square saturn
chiron opposes jupiter
uranus opposes chiron
chiron trine neptune
saturn quincunx pluto
mars opposes saturn
saturn trine AC
chiron contra mars
chiron contra saturn
uranus parallel chiron
saturn contra mars
chiron parallel saturn

amazing... l think now l realise not only why it didn't work but also maybe why l still am unable to completely get over it. I'm 'captivated' - is that the right term?

:)

[Icplanets]

Hi Moulin,

I don’t think that the Saturn is producing that kind of lingering fondness; that can’t release the love feeling. I’d say the Chiron trine Neptune is the primary culprit. Unlike Venus-Neptune it doesn’t reflect that instant romantic chemistry. Yet, Neptune-Chiron is far more formidable as it keeps gaining strength over time. It generates a never ending love. Neptune-Chiron is just like planting an oak tree, it takes a little time for it to mature, but once it does it gets more beautiful and glorious with each passing year.

With just the combination of Saturn and Uranus aspects that you shared, there was such a dichotomy of “urge to be free” verses “urge to control “energies, it would have been a very tough row to hoe over the long term. But that doesn’t mean the love goes away. My guess is that he’ll always maintain a condo in the corner of your heart.

Cheers,
Kevin

[barbh]

Hi Kevin

Is it just the chiron neptune or chiron venus that brings out 'love' feelings? I too am curious about this 'captivation' saturn situation that I just read about on the Magi website.

Here are the major aspects between me and this man I seem to be quite enamoured with.
He is listed first, and most exact are first as well

Saturn conjunct Sun exact
Saturn square moon
North node conjunct Sun
Venus parallel moon
Neptune trine Moon
Neptune trine Mars
Neptune oppose Juno
jupiter conjunct Uranus
Jupiter trine Sun
Jupiter conjunct Asc
Pluto and Uranus oppose Mars
Sun, Mars and Venus square my Pluto
Sun, Mars square my Chiron
Sun, Mars and Moon trine my Saturn
Mars inconjunct my Neptune
Juno oppose my sun and square my moon
Oh, and his Sun is exactly on my Ceres...(now that Ceres is officially a planet...wonder if Magi will start using it?)

So, we have no positive Chiron between us, except his parallels my mercury,. but the rest are squares.

I'm wondering about the whole Juno thing, since his Neptune does exactly oppose my Juno. And about the Saturn thing, since its the closest aspect we have. I do feel captivated...sort of like I'm in jail actually.

I'm wondering if the Saturn thing is holding us together. The chemistry is dynamite..obviously with all those pluto squares and mars oppositions, but there has to be some sort of romantic loving feeling as well. Could that be the Neptune stuff??

AND, what about the composite chart? What if one does have all those great chiron aspects that way? In our composite we have
Chiron trine Neptune
Chiron parallel Jupiter
Chiron sextile Venus
It's also conjunct Saturn by 5 degrees


any thoughts?
thanks
barbh

[Moulin]

wow Barbh

Are ALL those aspects within 3 degrees and are all the declinations within 1.2?

I guess you are only looking at a geo chart there? :)

[barbh]

Hi Moulin
Yes, it is the geocentric chart, and all are very close in orb.
His Venus parallels my Moon by .04 and my Pluto by 1.20
The aspects that are out of the 3 degree aspect ranges or 1.2 declination range would be his Jup trine my Sun and conjunct my Asc, that is 5 degrees. My Pluto squaring his Mars is 6 degrees, but I stuck it in there because he has this huge stellium in Gemini....5 planets, and my Pluto sort of squares it right in the middle...but squares his Sun within a degree.
Oh, I see now that his Jup parallels my Venus at 1.11.. That's a good one. Phew. Was thinking there were all problematic.
All the Neptune aspects are within 2 degrees.
Oh. but his Juno opposing my Sun and squaring my moon is 6 degrees, so we can't use that.
So, the majority are usable. The closest aspect we have is his Saturn on my Sun and his Sun on Ceres (which is also my sun/moon midpoint). Curious about that Saturn. It's definitely karmic, but also a bond that is not easily let go of.....for the saturn person or the sun person?

The helio chart doesn't really show much, not a lot of aspects in there. Not sure what it's supposed to mean either.

Thanks for asking
barb

[Moulin]

Hi Barb

You are welcome :)

I'm no Magi expert but l think i'm right in saying that the Saturn person has control and is the heartbreaker... the non-saturn person is in a sense "along for the ride", rather like on a rollercoaster ride at funfair.

Interesting that you liken yourself to someone whom is in jail!!! Do you not mind this restriction placed upon you? I don't think my Aquarius DC would last a minute in jail so i'm impressed that you chose it in a relationship ;)

The venus/pluto is a sexual aspect.
The pluto/mars square is out of orb. Don't know if icplanets will allow it, even though it's bang on the stellium.

Jupiter/venus is good. It's not chiron/venus or chiron/jupiter though.

Let's see what icplanets has to say :)

[Icplanets]

Hello Barbh

It looks you and Moulin have been able to converse about this a bit. As a general note, heliocentric longitudinal aspects function identically to geocentric. Heliocentric latitudes use a very, very tight orb of 0.3 for parallels and contra-parallels.
Is it just the chiron neptune or chiron venus that brings out 'love' feelings?
No, it is not “just” those two. What I was trying to convey to Moulin is that Neptune-Chiron has a couple of very unique characteristics as it relates to love. One is that it reflects a love that grows much stronger over time, the other is that it often reflects a love the never ends. The relationship may disappear, but the love remains strong.
I too am curious about this 'captivation' saturn situation that I just read about on the Magi website.

The two part Magi Society astrology lesson you are referring to (part 1 http://magiastrology.com/astronaut_lisa_nowak.htm (http://magiastrology.com/astronaut_lisa_nowak.htm) and part 2 http://magiastrology.com/sexual_captivations_Nowak.htm (http://magiastrology.com/sexual_captivations_Nowak.htm)) used Astronaut Lisa Nowak’s bizarre; jealousy fueled criminal activity to do away with the rival for her lover’s affections as an example of a Sexual Captivation.

The Sexual component is essential in these types of dysfunctional relationships. It is the bait. You wouldn’t connect unless there was an exceptionally strong sexual chemistry. Almost always there are several Juno enhancement aspects with sexual planets that are present in the CAC (synastry), as well as other strong sexual aspects. Besides being highly sexual the Magi have revealed that Juno rules illusions, especially self-illusions. The Saturn linkages (enhancement aspects) create a very strong bondedness, making it exceptionally difficult for the non-Saturn person to extricate themselves from the relationship, even when it is unpleasant. The Saturn in the CAC is unbalanced and the captive person is on the receiving end of more than their fair share of it.

You put these conditions all together and you have a situation that appears to the captive that they “NEED” the other person. Why would Astronaut Lisa Nowak concoct a kidnapping/murder plan if she was not under the impression she needed William Oefelein like a vampire needs blood. The answer is she wouldn’t. She was under a spell (The Magi have also said Juno symbolizes spells and hexes) that William was her life’s blood and she would surely parish with out him. Now, it is important to note not all captivations contain this level of pathology. This situation was clearly exacerbated when Lisa had several debilitating Saturn and Mars clash transits all in force at the same time. But the Sexual Captivation certainly set the stage.

This unfounded sense of “need” is the initial reaction. After that “need” feeling wears off, then they feel trapped. Sexual Captivations have nothing to do with love, this doesn’t mean that love may not be present, but usually the amount of dysfunction is so great, it’s hard for the love to be recognized in its purest form. Then when the Juno wears off (the good news about Juno is in most cases the illusion or spell can not be sustained over time) then the captive feels trapped and it is very difficult for them to extricate themselves from the relationship.

The Magi completely reject traditional astrology’s take on Saturn interaspects in a relationship. In no way, shape or form do we believe Saturn is helpful in a relationship. Our reasoning is thus…Saturn Clashes reflect fundamental incompatibility. This doesn’t mean you are doomed if you have a Saturn Clash, but it does mean that you will always have to deal with the issues around that incompatibility. Obviously, as the clashes start adding up in a CAC it doesn’t take long before you have a map of a mine field. Just because you know where they are, doesn’t mean you want to walk around them every day. Saturn bonds (enhancement aspects) reflect control, with the Saturn person being in the control position and the non-Saturn person being in the passive position. The Saturn person has carte blanch and feels entitled to do whatever they want. The passive person feels at best beholden and at worst trapped. And here is the key, the Saturn person doesn’t really feel the bond, only the non-Saturn, passive person feels the bond.

Traditional astrologers often will say it is desirable to have a Saturn conjunct Sun or a Saturn trine Moon to keep the relationship together. They are not wrong in the result; they are however mistaken on the dynamics. They fail to mention that the passive person is the only one who feels beholden and that they may not even want to be in the relationship. The passive person can feel trapped and believe the effort to extricate themselves from the relationship would be monumental.

In most cases, but certainly not all, without the heavy duty sexual chemistry you don’t end up getting seriously evolved with someone where you have a notable and dramatic imbalance of Saturn energy. You’ll notice pretty quickly that it doesn’t feel comfortable, and without a whole bunch of Juno aspects, in particular, you’re much more lucid in your thinking on the prospects of your happiness with this person. The biggest caveat to this is if you are having multiple turbulent transits (particularly Saturn) when you first meet and/or when you escalate the relationship, that can very much skew your judgment.
Here are the major aspects between me and this man I seem to be quite enamoured with. He is listed first, and most exact are first as well
Saturn conjunct Sun exact
Saturn square moon
North node conjunct Sun
Venus parallel moon
Neptune trine Moon
Neptune trine Mars
Neptune oppose Juno
jupiter conjunct Uranus
Jupiter trine Sun
Jupiter conjunct Asc
Pluto and Uranus oppose Mars
Sun, Mars and Venus square my Pluto
Sun, Mars square my Chiron
Sun, Mars and Moon trine my Saturn
Mars inconjunct my Neptune
Juno oppose my sun and square my moon
Oh, and his Sun is exactly on my Ceres...(now that Ceres is officially a planet...wonder if Magi will start using it?)

The Magi have been using Ceres for a very, very long time, we just haven’t yet revealed our take on the symbolism to the general public. You can be assured the Magi have a completely different opinion than traditional astrology on what Ceres represents.

Barbh, with just your brief aspect list as a guide, and not seeing all of the necessary charts and synchronizations, it would be inappropriate for me to really make any kind of pronouncement or opinion on your relationship.

I will, like I did above and as I have done previously with Moulin, riff a bit on some the aspects you shared, but please take this as more of a general Magi opinion on these aspects, primarily for educational purposes, rather than any type of reading of your specific situation. Obviously, I will do my best to relate it to you, but in all honesty I’m mostly flying blind here.

One of the things I noticed from your list is that there are many Mars clash aspects. The Magi have found that multiple Mars clashes (at least two) can (but not always) actually increase the sexual attraction and create a very, shall we say, potent interaction in the bed room. The down side is the clashes do come out to play in other parts of the relationship.
So, we have no positive Chiron between us, except his parallels my mercury,. but the rest are squares.
Chiron clashes are somewhat insidious. They facilitate a ease of coming together and deeper feelings, but often it is a mirage. Once you get pulled in deeper they often reflect an untenable relationship situation. In short, you develop deep feelings, only to face the facts that this coupling won’t work for you. This is usually the case when Chiron Clashes outnumber Chiron linkages.
I'm wondering about the whole Juno thing, since his Neptune does exactly oppose my Juno. And about the Saturn thing, since its the closest aspect we have. I do feel captivated...sort of like I'm in jail actually.
Juno in opposition usually means there is no illusion/spell, but also it indicates a lack of allure. Do you use declinations and/or Heliocentric astrology. I would look for Juno in these area’s if there are no enhancements in geocentric longitudes.

I'm wondering if the Saturn thing is holding us together. The chemistry is dynamite..obviously with all those pluto squares and mars oppositions, but there has to be some sort of romantic loving feeling as well. Could that be the Neptune stuff??

The Magi believe that Neptune is the most romantic planet. However, Chiron is the only symbol of true love.The multiple Chiron clashes would reflect some love, but unattainable long term love, and not enough love to overcome the long term relationship challenges.

AND, what about the composite chart? What if one does have all those great chiron aspects that way? In our composite we have
Chiron trine Neptune
Chiron parallel Jupiter
Chiron sextile Venus
It's also conjunct Saturn by 5 degrees

I would not recommend the use of composite charts. They can contain multiple elements that will throw you off track. I would suggest you completely disregard the composite information you listed above.


The CAC is the base for relationship work, and then the companionship chart, the ruling relationship chart, along the corresponding CAC’s with those charts and the participants. These provide plenty of very helpful information on your relationship.

There you have it,
Kevin

[Moulin]

Hi Moulin,

I don’t think that the Saturn is producing that kind of lingering fondness; that can’t release the love feeling. I’d say the Chiron trine Neptune is the primary culprit. Unlike Venus-Neptune it doesn’t reflect that instant romantic chemistry. Yet, Neptune-Chiron is far more formidable as it keeps gaining strength over time. It generates a never ending love. Neptune-Chiron is just like planting an oak tree, it takes a little time for it to mature, but once it does it gets more beautiful and glorious with each passing year.

With just the combination of Saturn and Uranus aspects that you shared, there was such a dichotomy of “urge to be free” verses “urge to control “energies, it would have been a very tough row to hoe over the long term. But that doesn’t mean the love goes away. My guess is that he’ll always maintain a condo in the corner of your heart.

Cheers,
Kevin


Funnily enough icplanets, now that you have explained all that to me so perfectly, it makes complete sense!
I can totally see your point about neptune-chiron growing over time, and l now understand why it is called the 'lifetime linkage'. (I just hate it when you have 2 of these wonderful uppers with a guy along with those **** nuclear/heartbreak downere lol - l have chiron/neptune with all my ex's and yet they were all a disaster! grrrrr) Drives me insane...
Thank you for explaining.
Moulin :)

[gaer]

What the Magi Society is promoting is that when you use techniques that work more at least 2/3 of the time, and you combine them with other techniques with the same or better results, then you can get very accurate overall results with your astrology. Remember the Magi hang their hat on the accuracy of their methodology The Magi are not trying to be contrary here, if house systems were valid you can bet your last dollar they would using them.

A success rate of 2/3 would be astounding. It if could be proved, it would also force scientists to examine the data and support the results.

Please give me one scientific source that supports Magi astrology more than any other kind of astrology. Until you do that, I remain highly skeptical.

Gaer

[Svencanz]

Coffee,

Good point. :)

I have written my take on this dichotomy here:

www.magiastro.com (http://www.magiastro.com)

Go Astrology; Astrology and Science - and scroll down to the area where I have some pics of functions.

Sven

[gaer]

Does any scientific source support any kind of astrology? :eek:
In my opinon, no. :)

It seems to me that astrologers always find a way to "prove" that what they do is scientific, while scientists almost always (if not always) find a way to prove that it is NOT scientific.

This always makes me think that people tend to find a way to "prove" what they already believe, a deadly trap for both True Believers and Dedicated Debunkers. ;)

Gaer

[Moulin]

Thank god!

Anything scientific to me is a reason to run for the hills ! ;)

Scientists are great, don't get me wrong but they have a wonderful way of ruining everything that is better, such as Bach flower Remedies, Aromatherapy, Homeopathy, healing yourself, healing, reincarnation, the power of the mind etc etc.

All the things that came BEFORE scientists :D :D

In my opinon, no. :)

It seems to me that astrologers always find a way to "prove" that what they do is scientific, while scientists almost always (if not always) find a way to prove that it is NOT scientific.

This always makes me think that people tend to find a way to "prove" what they already believe, a deadly trap for both True Believers and Dedicated Debunkers. ;)

Gaer

[barbh]

Thank you Kevin for that information!
I'm so curious to hear what the Magi will have to say about Ceres...it keeps showing up over and over between us. I did a horary on us and of course Ceres was rising.
Lots of good info in there...I'd say what you said does reflect the energies between us. It seems that he does have more freedom here than I do, partly because he's the guy and I want him to do the pursuing, hence I do a lot of waiting. I, of course, can stop doing that at any time..its my choice.
The illusion is already starting to wear off...you had mentioned that


Chiron clashes are somewhat insidious. They facilitate a ease of coming together and deeper feelings, but often it is a mirage. Once you get pulled in deeper they often reflect an untenable relationship situation. In short, you develop deep feelings, only to face the facts that this coupling won’t work for you. This is usually the case when Chiron Clashes outnumber Chiron linkages.

I can feel this already. It felt strong and deep at the beginning, but his unreliability is starting to wear on me. I did go and check the heliocentric chart, and we have a Juno Neptune conjunction, but its just under 2 degrees, so we can't really count it.

thanks again for the info
barbh

[Moulin]

Hey icplanets...
Can l ask please what happens when your Chiron linkages, especially CINDERALLA'S outnumber chiron and saturn clashes, yet there are still a few saturn clashes. Does this mean that this will still fall flat on it's face.
I ask cos l think my mum/stepdad have this and yet they have been married for 31 yrs and still going!!!
Thanks.



Chiron clashes are somewhat insidious. They facilitate a ease of coming together and deeper feelings, but often it is a mirage. Once you get pulled in deeper they often reflect an untenable relationship situation. In short, you develop deep feelings, only to face the facts that this coupling won’t work for you. This is usually the case when Chiron Clashes outnumber Chiron linkages.

[Icplanets]

Hello Barbh

Thank you Kevin for that information!
You’re welcome, it was my pleasure.
I'm so curious to hear what the Magi will have to say about Ceres...it keeps showing up over and over between us.
Please know my intent is not to be cryptic here, the information on Ceres belongs to the Magi Society and they get to decide when and how it is released. A good portion of Ceres symbolism is available to those who purchase their interpretation software upgrades to the MagiAstroSoft program. I can however share with you, that an overwhelming majority of the time the Magi have found that Ceres symbolism has no effect on romance, intimate relationships, or companionship.
I did go and check the heliocentric chart, and we have a Juno Neptune conjunction, but its just under 2 degrees, so we can't really count it.
Heliocentric longitudes are just like Geocentric in terms of mechanics. The standard Magi Astrology orb of 3 degrees or less applies. Your Juno-Neptune conjunction is well within orb.

It is the Heliocentric latitudes that have the exceptionally close orbs of 0.03 or less for parallel latitude or contra-parallel latitude.

Cheers,
Kevin

[Icplanets]

Hello Moulin,

I must say, red is certainly a color that suits you.

Can l ask please what happens when your Chiron linkages, especially CINDERALLA'S outnumber chiron and saturn clashes, yet there are still a few saturn clashes. Does this mean that this will still fall flat on it's face.
I ask cos l think my mum/stepdad have this and yet they have been married for 31 yrs and still going!!!


I’m talking in generalities here as there are lots of unknown variables in this scenario.

First, keep in mind that the Magi have said that in intimate relationships no aspect ever cancels out another, ever. Everything in a CAC is always active, nothing ever goes away. As you are painfully aware, intimate relationships are multidimensional and complex, astrology confirms this assertion.

A dear colleague of mine, Magi Bette uses the analogy that enhancement interaspects are like moving back and forth in your favorite rocking chair and clashes are like someone handing you a scalding hot, full to the brim, cup of tea as you are rocking back and forth.

As to your Mum and Stepdad, When you have a bountiful harvest of Cinderella’s they often make the good times that much better, and they give you reassurance that when the not-so-good times surface, that once the difficulties pass, you’ll be able to move forward in a peaceful way with your partner. These situations often point to CAC’s that contain helpful symmetrical planetary geometry, which in and of itself, facilitates longevity in a relationship. And, you also have to factor in the marriage chart and how it affects each individual and the marriage itself.

And just a note about the clashes….all interaspects in a CAC affect the natives in two ways. The first is in their combined energy and how they influence each person. The second is through transits. In Magi Astrology, when we have clashes in a CAC we refer to the concept of Double Jeopardy.

For instance, if you have other romance and Cinderella enhancement interaspects in a CAC, then Jupiter-Chiron, or Neptune-Chiron or Jupiter-Neptune clashes and the like, are not that difficult to negotiate in terms of the combined energy. When the other Romance and Cinderella enhancements provide enough of a foundation for compatibility, those type of interaspect clashes are not even close to being deal breakers. They are not pushy or aggressive with their needs and you can maneuver around them quite easily. And you say to yourself, “problem solved.”

Unfortunately, only half the problem is solved. The issue is double jeopardy. When those interaspects are transited, especially in configurations that turn the squares and oppositions into T-Squares or Grand Squares, then you have the potential for some very turbulent energy. This is why Saturn clashes can be so debilitating over time. You are not only trying to negotiate the profound incompatibility between the two of you, you also have to cope with the clash angle transits to the original clash interaspect in the CAC.

Does that address what you were trying to ask? If not write me back and I’ll make another attempt.

Cheers, Kevin

[DiDi]

hello everyone
I just wanted to say how much i have enjoyed reading this thread.
I have had some interested in magi astrology and found it to be very true to its findings.:)

[barbh]

ICPlanets
This is all so very interesting. So, he doesn't feel that Saturn connection at all? It's his Saturn right on my Sun...you'd think he would have to feel something, since my Sun is shining or illuminating his Saturn. You'd think I'd remind him of how he's falling short of the mark or something. So, if he's not feeling this Saturn bond as I am, what planet connection does he feel the most between us?
thanks again
barb

[Icplanets]

Hi Didi,

I’m glad you are enjoying the thread.

How long have you been studying Magi Astrology? What won you over?

Cheers,
Kevin

[Icplanets]

Hi Barb
So, he doesn't feel that Saturn connection at all? It's his Saturn right on my Sun...you'd think he would have to feel something, since my Sun is shining or illuminating his Saturn. More so he doesn’t feel bonded or beholden because of his Saturn on your Sun. He does feel in control and he most likely is not obtuse to your feeling more bonded to him, than he to you.So, if he's not feeling this Saturn bond as I am, what planet connection does he feel the most between us? Non-Saturn aspects to his Chiron. Pure Enhancements are the most powerful.

Cheers,
Kevin

[DiDi]

IAM A MAGI FAN... it was my first intro to astrology and i have found it to be the basis in which i annalyse a chart. I think to find out different reasons for all things astrological .. that there ae different methods to use to get results, and sometimes a few ways to get the results but in different manners of astrolggy. There is a magnificent universe out there and we do not know a 10th of it. To be closed minded is to stop learning.. well thats only my thoughts anyway.

[DiDi]

ahhhhh sorry i missed your post here Icplanets.. nice to meet you
back when my marriage split and my dad and nan died, i was left to raise my 3 children alone with limited family members left to.
As you can see it was a life altering time in our lives, i started to seek answers to life after death and all things that go bump in the night lol:p
(just kidding there i believe very much in the afterlife.. ive seen it:cool:

I came across maybee it was in the magazine 'Horascope" i found the magi astrology, well i started applying it to people in my life and friends family that have long standing relationships, to try and work out what there common denominators are..
I found the magi principle very strong and i found the usual connections like sun/moon and someones saturn was alsways in a harsh aspect to the others sun.. mars/venus and merc to the others sun.
with the magi.. Now if im wrong tell me please but i read that to do a synastry not all 10 plannets were the strong ones to look at.
Example:-

chiron to sun moon venus
sun to same
but no moon to venus and so on
no merc to venus and so on
then venus to say mars jup

do magi consider these plannets moon and merc soft?
not sure but the examples and aspects they gave to chart were accurate to say the least. like i said im a fan.:)

[Hey]

Sure.
I remember seeing a boy at church for the first time, and immediately I was attracted to him. I had never done this, but that time, I went up to him, talked to him and introduced myself. I even shook his hand, asking him what his name was. I held his hand for quite a while, I remember. I liked him a lot.
Now I never see him anymore, and there grows my resentment.
But his Sun, Mercury, Venus and Pluto all conjuncted my Juno. He was a special kid.

[Moulin]

Dear icplanets,

Everything you have written makes perfect sense - Thank you for explaining it so well!

One question: in helio declinations, does one look at latitudes or longitudes or declinations column please?

:) Moulin

[Icplanets]

Hi Didi,

I too re-discovered astrology during a very difficult time in my life. I found it to be a very strong message of hope to me. I pray it also provides comfort for you.

The Magi have found Sun-Sun or Moon-Moon interaspects are not deal makers or deal breakers in any type of relationship. When looking at synastry for an intimate relationship the romance planets; Venus, Neptune and Chiron are emphasized. In a business relationship the financial planets as well as the planets that symbolize the type of business venture are emphasized. Of course Jupiter interaspects are always emphasized in any connection. Suffice to say all of the planets are important, but the context of the relationship will determine which planets should be brought to the forefront of the synastry examination.

I’d suggest you re-look at the Magi Society’s third book, Magi Astrology; The Keys to Success in Love and Money. It will help you to better cement some of the Magi Astrology principles around synastry.

Cheers,
Kevin

[DiDi]

i would love to get that book.. who is the author?
see the bit about nept venus and chiron being the most important in relationship part rings true to my way of thinking to.
traditional astrology is always my first inspection of two peoples synastry but sometimes i find you can get the best aspects yet dont get on or like each other.. there has to be more i think so i look for magi to define this.

anyway ill stop rambeling now lol... thankyou for your concern i appreciate it. this happened 14 years ago astrology is a hobby for me and it takes my mind away from my troubles,, the spiritulism is something ive seen i understand and im aware of. this is my comfort.

[Icplanets]

Hi Moulin,
Everything you have written makes perfect sense - Thank you for explaining it so well!Terrific, I’m glad it was helpful
One question: in helio declinations, does one look at latitudes or longitudes or declinations column please?
Declinations only exist in the geocentric realm. The declination vertical measurement factors in the tilt of the Earth’s axis. In Heliocentric astrology the vertical measurement is latitude. So, parallels and contra-parallels are more correctly referred to as parallel latitude or contra-parallel latitude when they are in the heliocentric realm; however the parallel and contra-parallel glyphs remain the same.

In geocentric declinations the zero point is the equatorial plane extended out to the heavens. In heliocentric the zero point is the Earth, and all other planets are measured North and South of that point. If you are not using Magi Society software, just make sure when you are looking at heliocentric latitudes that the Earth is a constant at zero latitude. If not you will struggle in finding the aspects.

Cheers,
Kevin

[Icplanets]

Hi Didi,
i would love to get that book.. who is the author?The Magi Society has written three books to date. All of the books are authored by “Magi Society.” As the Magi Society is a collaborative effort, no one person is credited as the author. You will notice this is also the case on their main web site.

All three of the Magi Society books are out of print and they fetch a very strong price on the used book market. However, they have made the first 14 chapters of their third book, “Magi Astrology: The Keys to Success in Love and Money” available for FREE on the internet. The book is originally only 17 chapters so it is nearly the entire book that you are able to download.

You can download the first 14 chapters of the “Love and Money” at http://magiastrology.com/ (http://magiastrology.com/)
Go to nearly the very bottom of the home page where you will see the covers of all three books in a row. “Love and Money” is on the far right. Look underneath the cover picture and the book’s description and you will see the link to download two .pdf files. One file contains chapters 1-7 the other contains chapters 8-14.

Happy reading,
Kevin

[DiDi]

thanks i will,, i was thinkin it was in 2000 i was reading about magi astrology, im just not sure of the source, i use to read horascope magazine, could have been that.... anyway thanks again kevin xx

[prettypiscesxoxo]

Hey, I know this thread is months old but I found it on a yahoo search;-)

I became interested in MAGI astrology when I became aware of the asteroids role in synastry- particularly soulmates- on a personal note-

I have been with my boyfriend/Lover who happens to be 3 years younger than me (im 27) to top things off- he is from the UK, in the "Royal Navy" & 3+ more years until his contravt runs up - here are our ASPECTS.

1- My Chiron :conjuncts: his Juno in H8

2- His Juno (H8, Taurus) oppose my Juno (H2- Scorpio)

3. My venus :sextile: his Chiron

4. My Uranus :oppose: his Chiron

5. My Juno :conjunct: his Mars & Pluto (scorpio)

6. My moon (gemini) :trines: his SUN (aquarius)

7. Our ascendants conjunct in LIBRA (Im 7 degrees /he's 0 degrees)

8. His aries Moon opposes my asendant-jupiter-saturn all :conjunct: in Libra

9. My Mars/sun (near the end of pisces) oppose his ascendant


Who do you think is more COMMITED - despite all the obstacles we have stood by one anohter- who seems more like the GLUE....


I can provide other examples- ASTROLOGY works, ultimately, its our FREE - WILL that holds the bond STRONG;-)

Something to think about...:p

[Moulin]

ok FINALLY i have met a guy with whom l have NO saturn baddie aspects lol

We have saturn/juno trine (2) and quincunx (2)
saturn parallel mercury
mars parallel saturn

also we have
venus parallel chiron
venus square juno (1)
juno trine venus (0)
neptune trine chiron (1)
chiron trine jupiter (3)
chiron opposes pluto (3)
mars quincunx pluto
juno trine moon (0)
juno trine venus (0)
juno trine saturn (2)
juno square mars (0)
moon square juno (0)
venus square juno (0)
juno quincunx saturn (0)

There are more but these stand out in geo!

IC - what do you think please?

[Svencanz]

Hey Kevin, how's it going?

I did think of replying to this post as well, until I saw that LTD had not supplied a name themselves...

Anyway, a fact I believe many people miss when it comes to Magi Astroloy is the "other" (corrected - as I see it) meanings of the planets. The ability of working with these corrected meanings, and aspect integration - be it natal, transits, synastry or elective astrology has lifted my game something incredible.

If people only took a year or so to look into this, they would not need to carry on these discussions.

For instance, look at the meanings of Neptune, Juno and Chiron - as per Magi Astrology, check a few charts and see what happens.

Neptune meaning "electricity" was the first such thing I came across - it really worked.

For anyone wanting to understand how Neptune also means "long term" - and how it can be disabled by a Saturn transit, I would strongly recommend studying the crash of the Columbia space shuttle.

Then to understand how Chiron can mean "life and death" - look at the death chart of Saddam Hussein.

From my experience, it only takes a smidegeon of willingness to look into this, and a door will open. Without that willingness - well, the door remains closed.

Sven

[BobZemco]

For anyone wanting to understand how Neptune also means "long term" - and how it can be disabled by a Saturn transit, I would strongly recommend studying the crash of the Columbia space shuttle.

That would be a neat trick since Neptune and Saturn weren't even in aspect.

What about Challenger, Apollo 7, Soyuz 1 and Soyuz 11? It isn't enough to merely cite one anecdotal incident.

In Astrology, hindsight is practically worthless. If it has no predictive value, then there's no point in studying it.

[Svencanz]

Hi Bob,

Obviously a slight misunderstanding here...
Firstly, I was not out to "prove" anything. I don't need to do that. :)

If you look at the natal chart for OV-102, you will see an interesting configuration - multi-planet aspect - that involves Sun, Venus, Mars, Neptune and Pluto. It is a highly explosive birth chart - how else can rockets get off the ground?
Neptune is in a position of alleviating this dynamic, lessening the tension. With its symbolism of "long term" it was in fact 'what kept the rocket alive' - according to me.
At the time of the death launch, transiting Saturn was negating this Neptune influence by opposing it, from memory.

You will also see some staggering stuff involving Mars, Uranus and Pallas Athene (the ruler of shields) when you compare the natal, the death launch (and the crash) charts. Some of the most 'beautiful' astrology I ever saw.

When looking into this, I also looked at the astronauts involved - their natals and transits, obviously. All of them had barrages of Saturn transits - I think the lowest count was four, and highest nine or something.
How else could they die?

The value of "hindsight" in astrology is that by studying the past, and the planetary positions applicable, we can learn an interpretive system and thus predict the future.

I have become so good at this that I no longer do it. My track record is virtually 100 per cent when it comes to predictions. My only failure was a currency prediction that was only half right (the only currency prediction I have made: the Aus dollar rose when I said it would, but the euro did not fall when I had predicted. In AUD-Euro exchange rate. My mate Kevin, Icplanets later explained to me what I had got wrong... and yes, that remains a secret, you could say...)
I have made large-scale predictions about most everything, and out of 20 such predictions, only one was a 'half miss.'
Still annoys me to this day...

<What about Challenger, Apollo 7, Soyuz 1 and Soyuz 11? It isn't enough to merely cite one anecdotal incident.>

No, indeed. You are right. If I were out to prove anything.
However, my intention with the post was to open a door for those inclined to examine what lies beyond. I am totally over proving stuff.
I have not looked at those examples - though I have looked at many others, especially involving plane crashes and ship founderings.
And therefore, I can confidently say that I would be able to delineate each of the events you have mentioned.

So, let's say USD 200 for each - but if you're after a package deal I'd offer one for $650.
Or if there is anything else I could help with?

Cheers,
Sven Carlsson
(Independent astrologer who is now focusing on music instead)

[giaella33]

No Chiron Aspects is like "no ticky-no laundry". There is nothing to hold a relationship together. Magi is the missing link in Astrology (no and's, if's or but's) !!!!

[BobZemco]

No Chiron Aspects is like "no ticky-no laundry". There is nothing to hold a relationship together.

Ah, now we know why Simon & Garfunkel split up.

Chiron conjunct Chiron. Some glue.

[giaella33]

"Ah, now we know why Simon & Garfunkel split up."


Chiron conjunct Chiron is NOT a Magi Aspect. Study before you speak and then we can have an intelligent discourse.

[BobZemco]

"Ah, now we know why Simon & Garfunkel split up."


Chiron conjunct Chiron is NOT a Magi Aspect. Study before you speak and then we can have an intelligent discourse.

Maybe it isn't, but Mars-Chiron is "emotional attachment and commitment."

I guess the caveat is the "commitment" part only lasts a few years. Some glue.

[giaella33]

Again you are showing your ignorance of Magi Astrology. A Mars/Chiron linkage (not aspect-wrong terminology here sir) does not "make" a relationship. A "linkage" is one person's A Mars to person's B Chiron. A Mars/Chiron linkage is primarily "sexual" in nature (although it may be used for energy ie: accomplishing things together) This is not enough to hold people together in a relationship. Sorry your so sad about Simon & Garfunkel though

[giaella33]

"There are some knowledgeable people on this thread. They don't like Magi either. Seems the only ones who do are the ones who...dare I use the cliche'...drank the Kool-aid."

There are "sheep" and there are "shepherds". Who needs followers that can't think for themselves? It sounds like you had a bad experience. Perhaps you were having personal "bad" transits when you signed up with them. Read the fine print: Magi states they will not read for a person if : 1. the current transits in the sky are negative 2. the client is having negative transits and 3. the astrologer is having negative transits. The Magi Society has always been responsive to me. Currently all their books are SOLD OUT and their first book - The Magi Society Ephemeris is worth up to $300.00 on the open market. It is a must as it opens a "whole new dimension" in Astrology.

[giaella33]

Here is the link to the Magi Society's Web Page. http://www.magiastrology.com/index.php

[giaella33]

"I believe civil debate and intelligent discourse within the astrological community is necessary for the advancement of the craft. Blatant Lies and snarky comments only serve to create divisiveness. False statements cheapen the conversation and eliminate any chance of a valuable contribution to the community at large; as most people have no interest in postings that repeatedly lack credibility."

Well said; well said...

[Courtney Love]

That would be a neat trick since Neptune and Saturn weren't even in aspect.

What about Challenger, Apollo 7, Soyuz 1 and Soyuz 11? It isn't enough to merely cite one anecdotal incident.

In Astrology, hindsight is practically worthless. If it has no predictive value, then there's no point in studying it.


what ***** about the site is they're all "well we know so-and-so would break up because of this aspect! but we would never tell you beforehand so as not to upset the couple..." I'm all woman, please.

but IRT the columbia disaster, while there were no saturn clashes, it was a day of Jupiter opposed to sun, which Magi believes can cause deaths, particularly in a marriage chart, for the husband. I found that one fascinating.

The challenger had the Heartbreak aspect, saturn opposed to chiron. I think given the press and how many children like myself watched it on TV, that accurately describes it.

I was looking for a bad aspect for apollo 13, and I couldn't find it, then I read how they ultimately returned safely so...

[Icplanets]

Hi Courtney,


Thanks for your contribution to this thread.it was a day of Jupiter opposed to sun, which Magi believes can cause deaths, particularly in a marriage chart, for the husband. I found that one fascinating. However, the above statement is not correct. The Magi Society, in their books or on their website, has never said any such thing about Jupiter opposed Sun, regardless of the type of chart. That is not an accurate Magi Astrology interpretation of that aspect.

I share this with you because, as much of this thread attests, there is just a ton of inaccurate, misleading, and flat out wrong information visa-vie Magi Astrology out in the cyberspace and it’s best for all concerned if we do our best to keep it from proliferating. Thanks in advance for your understanding.

A correct Magi Astrology interpretation for Jupiter opposed Sun in electional matters of love would be that is it fosters misunderstandings and intolerance. A Magi Astrology interpretation for Jupiter opposed Sun in electional matters of business would be over-expansion and overspending that would lead to financial difficulties.

I hope that clears it up for you.

Cheers,
Icplanets

[giaella33]

It seems this thread gets "infiltrated" by "dis-informationists" does David Icke now dabble in Magi Astrology? lol

[Courtney Love]

Hi Courtney,


Thanks for your contribution to this thread.However, the above statement is not correct. The Magi Society, in their books or on their website, has never said any such thing about Jupiter opposed Sun, regardless of the type of chart. That is not an accurate Magi Astrology interpretation of that aspect.

Cheers,
Icplanets

I thought I read that in the book, they used the examples of John Lennon & Yoko getting married under that aspect, as well as Carole Lombard & Clark Gable... and there were deaths.. What aspect am I confusing that with, do you know?

[Icplanets]

Hi Courtney, I thought I read that in the book, they used the examples of John Lennon & Yoko getting married under that aspect, as well as Carole Lombard & Clark Gable... and there were deaths.. What aspect am I confusing that with, do you know? In chapter 6 of the Magi Society’s third book, “Magi Astrology; The Keys to Success in Love and Money" (often referred to as just “Love and Money”) Gable and Lombard are briefly mentioned within the presentation on the Romantic Super Linkage (RSL). In addition, on the main website John and Yoko are included in a long list of couples who have an RSL. (http://www.magiastrology.com/magi_blog/romantic_super_linkages.htm)

Cheers,
Icplanets

[amymaddalozzo]

I agree and disagree with the magi society yes, these chiron saturn aspects are difficult But I have looked at charts and there are people who stay married with saturn chiron aspects My parents were married almost 44 years when my dad died and mom's saturn opposed dad's chiron. yes, they had their problems but they still loved each other and stayed married. I think you have to look at the chart as a whole and how committed people are to marriage--some people are and others give up. the Magi Society also saids that for couples who ahve these wonderful chiron aspects arenot necessary happy, it just means that they are more likely to stay together Chiron doesnot equal happiness forever

[wilsontc]

All,

I know there are some strong feelings about Magi astrology on both sides. Please, in your postings, focus on the issues and NOT on the person posting them. I have deleted all the recent attacking posts on Magi astrology and the attacking responses to those attacking posts. PLEASE just focus on the astrological ISSUES people bring up and NOT on the people themselves going forward.

Moderately,

Tim

[BobZemco]

The very worst transits are from Saturn. Saturn makes no good transits.

Those kind of blanket statements from the Magi astrologers are why it is so easily discredited. If you have a badly placed Jupiter, then Saturn is your best friend.

[corrected possibly attacking post - Moderator]

[giaella33]

Magi Astrology is not so easily "discredited" if you have studied the teachings and read all three of their books and then and only then practice it & keep track of the data. If anyone has actually done this they will understand there is no need to "cover" anything with a blanket. The teachings are clear, accurate and fill in the blanks where other Astrological disciplines leave off.

The following are the three Magi Books that have been published thus far...

1. "Astrology Really Works"

2. "The Magi Society Ephemeris : Including Secrets of Magi Astrology" (a one-of- a kind which includes Magi Quads (4 planets and Midpoint Crossings)

3. "Magi Astrology : The Keys to Success in Love and Money"

currently all of these books are out of print, but available in used bookstores online (this last one is available to download chapts 1-14 on the Magi Website gratis : )

[Svencanz]

Hi again,

Bob - a Chiron conjunction in synastry is a generational-type aspect, so has no bearing on the durability of a relationship.
In general, I take little notice of such same-planet planetary conjunctions in synastry, with the possible exception of Mercury - and the DEFINITE exception of Mars. Mars-Mars conjunction in synastry is a strong, aligning energy.

Re: Saturn-Chiron in relationships. Yes, I, too, have seen relationships where Saturn-Chiron aspects exist in synastry. My take is the manifest differently from saturn-Chiron aspects in electionals, like marriage charts - which are very sinister indeed.
I knew a couple that had this type of aspect, and whenever I met them I felt as strong kind of sadness. I first thought it was my sadness, but after a few years I realised it was theirs. Beneath the "perfect" front of the marriage was a grief they had not had any sons - and they had later adopted a boy, but unbeknown to them he had some form of illness.

Sven

[Surprise]

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[giaella33]

"Parallels / Contraparallels = Most underrated astrological information."


Yes, if astrologer cannot read declinations they are only seeing half the birth chart.

[Varuna]

Sorry to join so late- new member & love to talk about magi society!

I do not think that 50% = long / 50% = dek...

dek you can have parallel and contra (with a planet-planet aspect). Long you can have conj trine opposition. And that's being real humble with the possibilities in long chart (even by magi's use).

Who said that Saturn makes no good transits? I missed that. Magi didn't say it, at least not in their books. Actually, today transit Saturn exact trined my natal Saturn. Kind of hard to argue the results : /

Bob no legit astrologer guarantees a positive relationship between two people based off of one generational aspect or one interplanetary aspect. What reason do you have to not give benefit of doubt to magi society as legit astrologers? They clearly have gained some respect by a number of your peers. If magi's site is unbearable to you -as it is me- then invest in their second book. I've found that book a lot less mysterious than the rest of their work.

We revolve around our sun, and we get energy from it. If we get energy from it, then the energy it is getting in turn is hugely significant in what it shoots out. So, helio is hugely significant at least theoretically, no question about it. Beyond theory? Michel Gauquelin's solar activity/ birth time research showed increased tendencies for children to be born with the the same planet rising as what a parent had rising when they were born.

[Claire19]

I've had a look at the website. It seems most interesting and is certainly worth investigating. I'm not sure I'm ready to fork out 80 bucks for the privilege just yet, but I may when I'm feeling flush. Their interpretation of aspects is a little different from traditional astrology, but that doesn't mean it's all bunk... just a twist on it.

Are you talking about eighty bucks for a reading??