How long will they stay

[Moonshine]

Hi
Can someone help me with this horary question
I am renting out a house to a couple. They have just negotiated different rental terms having been here a while already.
The question is as the post How long will they stay.
I drew up a chart as follows:-
Time 10 March 2007
Time 11.46 am
Location 52N 001W
The ascendant is 14 degrees 30 Cancer.
I only know a little about traditional astrology but I see the Moon is slow
Saturn their ruler is retrograde and peregrine.
Am I right in thinkking that they will do nothing in the short term.
Anything you see will be appreciated. BY the way the chart is radical because Saturn is the ruler of the hour (I hope I am not talking nonsense)

Moonshine

[astro.teacher]

In almost all questions, the Ascendant, Lord of the Ascendant and Moon rule the Querent (the one asking the question). Since your question is regarding contracts specifically with strangers (or non-related family) you need to look to the 7th House, his Lord and any Planets placed in there to rule the Quesited.

As for time, look for this. Are the significators of the renters (7th House, Lord etc) in Fixed, Moveable or Common signs?

In fixed, expect the stay to be long term, with regards to years.
In Common, months to weeks.
In Moveable, days to weeks.

That should answer your question clearly. If you find the 7th House, the Lord of the seventh and any Planets in the 7th placed in fixed signs, determine that it will be a long term binding agreement. If they arent all the same, take the majority.

PS: Thank you for stating the chart is radical, this seems to be something quite lacking in a lot of posts concerning Horary questions.

[Moonshine]

HI Aaaron
Could you please clarify for me what it means to have a retrograde planet in my house (1st) belonging to tenant. I am not sure about how it fits in if at all.

Thank you

Moonshine

[astro.teacher]

Saturn their ruler? Meaning Aquarius or Capricorn is the Lord of the seventh House? If this is the case and it is found in the first House, I would assume by the Peregrination of it that would indicate they are either complete strangers or see you as a complete stranger (maybe even from another country or some place farther off) Being Saturn it usually descibes old people, or at least people of a melancholic and sober temperament.

Retrograde would indicate a holding back of something (a delay on the contract that you hold with them? There is a delay with regards to the contract in question). I think you get the idea from that. I hope that helps you analyze it closer. I dont like giving people the answers, its much more satisifying to find it out yourself but ill certainly help removing some stumbling blocks.

[Moonshine]

Hi Astro teacher
Thanks for the reply to my post. Saturn is not in the first house as I stated before it is in the second (our money) and it is Leo a fixed sign. It is just about to go into the third house. It will change signs in another 11 degrees.
I cannot imagine they will stay for 11 years do you? However as we said Saturn is retrograde so in fact it will not change signs until this September.
So does that mean that they will be with us for another six months or that because Saturn is changing houses they will leave almost immediately. If you would just give me a pointer to how to work this out. I am a real novice picking my way through. I think myself because their planet is in such a poor state that a) they can't make up their minds to stay or leave b) they haven't got the wherewithall in money so to do even if they wanted to. Am I at least correct on that. Our ruling planet the moon is on 0 degrees so that is just changing signs as well - so new arrangements - it is posited in the 5th house but the 5th house spans three signs. I can't remember what this means although I have read it somewhere.

A totally confused Moonshine

[astro.teacher]

It is just about to go into the third house. It will change signs in another 11 degrees.
I cannot imagine they will stay for 11 years do you?

I apologize, I must have explained that badly. You need to count the degrees between the Aspect of your Significator (Lord of the Ascendant or Moon) and theirs (Lord of the seventh). If there is an aspect between both and they both are in Fixed Signs, count the degrees between the perfect aspect as years. For example a Trine between Saturn and Moon (being the Significators) with 3 degrees orb between them will show a comfortable 3 years together, & etc.

Horary Charts are not complicated. You analyze your Significators, the Significators of them, and any aspects/reception there is between the two. The Significators in other Houses describes the person you are asking about. If you want to discover the state of the person you are talking about you need to look at what Sign and House the Significator is in. So you say Saturn (their significator) is in the second? Well what House is that counting from the seventh as the first?

http://antiquus.50webs.com/Detail.html for more information on House shifting.

Now, if you find Ill Planets interfering between you or their Significators with ill Aspects, you can suggest a delay in what you are asking. Especially if its a square aspect with Mars. Retrogrades also cause delays. I hope this helps you. I do not like to analyze peoples charts and tell them the answers because thats not the way to learn and its more satisfying when you do get the answer. If you have any more questions feel free to ask.

[Moonshine]

Hi Astro.teacher
Have been working on this chart. I am sorry to say I have another mistake.
The chart is not radical as I thought. However, I have looked up radical and it says that when the ascendant ruler's element is the same as the planetary hour ruler element then the chart is radical. The Moon which is the charts ruler is in Sagittarius and the hour ruler is Mercury so they are not the same element. Is this Right?
Next the Moon has 19 degrees to go until it will be in trine to Saturn which because the Moon is in a Succedent house and a Common sign denotes a time stay of 19 months. But I am not entirely sure so the other idea I had was that the Moon also will make a sextile to Mars the almuten ruler as well and that will be in 9 degrees which equals 9 months. The Moon is slow so I assume that it will be a longer time for them to go and the ascendant of the question is in a sign of long ascension again also pointing to a long time to the conclusion so I am thinking that perhaps it is 19 months after all. As Cancer is also on the ascendant the question is quite emotionally charged being Saturn/Moon combination.

Please give your opinion as to the right or wrong way I have gone about this or if it is correct

Thank you
Moonshine

[astro.teacher]

Ive never heard of the Radical method you use. The main ones I know are the Lord of the Hour has to match the Ascendant of the chart, the Querent SIngificators in the chart have to match the description of Querent and another which I cant remmeber at this moment, I believe it has regards to the Almuten.

The Moon which is the charts ruler is in Sagittarius and the hour ruler is Mercury so they are not the same element. Is this Right?

Yes they are not the same (according to the description you told me and their Elementary rulership)

Next the Moon has 19 degrees to go until it will be in trine to Saturn which because the Moon is in a Succedent house and a Common sign denotes a time stay of 19 months.

19 is quite a far orb, are you sure that there are no closer aspects between the Significators of the Querent and the Quesited? You dont just need to use the Moon as the Querent significator, the Lord of the Ascendant, the Ascendant itself, the Moon and any Planets placed in the 1st can be considered Significators of the Querent. See if you can find any closer aspects between your Significators and theirs. However, if you find from the above stated rules that your chart is not radical, break it and cast a new one. The Moon is New right now so you might want to wait a day or two.

[Moonshine]

Hi astro teacher
Been working on the chart AGAIN!
This time I am going with Jupiter because it rules 6th house of tenants and is the most dignified planet in the chart. The Moon which rules us has no aspects to Saturn their planet but it does make an aspect eventually with Jupiter in 17 degrees but you said that was too much so I decided on the following:- The almuten of their house the 7th is Saturn or Mars. Jupiter trines Saturn at 0.52 minutes. which equates I think to just under 10 months. If this is not correct then I am at a dead end.

Moonshine

[Moonshine]

Hi astro teacher

Can you confirm the answer for me or not Please!


Moonshine

[archergirl]

Hi Moonshine,

There is MUCH debate over whether 'modern' tenants fall under the 6th or 7th houses, as the terms of tenancy nowadays (especially in England) give the tenants far more power than they had in Lilly's time.

I am not especially skilled with timings, but some astrologers I know use the cusps of the houses to indicate timing, if nothing else is making sense.

If we were to take Saturn, 7th ruler as tenants, it is 3 degrees away from the cusp of the 3rd (which could indicate 'movement' or moving). However it is retrograding away from the cusp, so there would be a delay; perhaps it indicates that they 'changed their mind' about moving (eg. Rx) and aren't going anywhere for awhile!

Perhaps astro.teacher has the best advice to give, which is to put this chart away, wait awhile, and cast another one. This chart isn't giving a clear answer, and as it isn't radical according to hour rulers, it may be that it simply *can't* give a clear answer! With a good chart, one ought to be able to get the nuts and bolts of it in minutes, unless the lot of us are missing something really obvious!

Scratching my head...:confused:
AG

[astro.teacher]

Why are you using the 6th house to describe the tenants (unless they are servants?)

But I think Archergirl is right, if its not Radical, your going to be digging yourself into a hole. Try and cast again, follow the rules I gave above.

[Moonshine]

HI Archergirl and astro teacher

Thank you both for your input I will cast another chart. As it has been 2 weeks since I cast the original is now a good time to cast another chart or should I wait awhile?

Moonshine

[archergirl]

Hi Moonshine,

The best horary questions are those we ask when we really, really need to know; like a burning question. I would wait until a moment when you feel that strong urge or need to know. I have found that horary questions, when asked casually, seldom give a good reading. There isn't really a 'good moment' to ask; just make a new chart when it feels right, like if the tenants are bugging you, or something. :p

Vague answer, I know! :)

Cheers,
AG

[astro.teacher]

With Saturn so badly placed right now it may be best to hold off on your Horary. Its very easy for Saturn to become the Lord of the Ascendant or Seventh (or even be placed in the seventh) which is of course bad for you and them.

[Moonshine]

Hi Archergirl and astro teacher

Thanks again for your replies. Will do as you suggest and wait awhile.
Astro teacher when will Saturn not be so badly placed?

Moonshine

[astro.teacher]

Well I should take back what I said, technically Saturn isnt TOO badly placed right now because of his trine with Jupiter (as Jupiter is the only planet able to overcome his malice), it will be definately worse once this trine breaks (especially since Saturn takes a few years to move through signs). So I take back what I said, it would be best if Saturn showed up in charts made now, then if his trine broke and he was in Leo alone with no benevolent aspects. Just something to watch out for though.

[Moonshine]

Hi astro teacher

I will do a chart possibly later on today or tomorrow - thanks

Moonshine