suicidal chart..and why?

[Sagmoon]

hi...i've been here for some time now and i only mentioned once that i struggle in life..well, i came here originally to see if anyone can explain to me a little bit more about my chart... my life is strange, out of balance and i become depressed way too easily, althouhg i think now i know how to deal with it and so i find myself in constant fight not to fall depressed... hhmm i can't really explain too much about me because it just doesn't make sense to me.. it's like i live in some sort of dream.. another thing is that i felt suicidal for a long time, and every now and then when something happens i suddenly want to stop it all... it's a scary feeling that i'm trying to avoid and so it becomes even more unbearable. i can only leave it inside and become depressed but i can't waste time anymore so instead i have an urge to run, escape..and as i say to die.. although i don't really want to die anymore.. with time i managed to deal with it, but i still get it.. there are also lessons that i had to go through, prob in order to find some balance.. does it show in my chart that my life is like that, that i have to learn always.. are there going to be anymore horrible lessons?

thank you..


EDIT: new chart attacheda with a new possible ascendant (three degrees later)..

[Sagmoon]

i shoud prob say that my other major dilemma is not knowing why and what i should do with my life.. i love to study and explore, but i loose the meaning of doing something very quickly.. i don't have a sense of direction, and when i do it doesn't last long...it's making me depressed...

thx

[SimplyRed]

Hey Sag moon, I am a SagMoon

It looks like Pluto and Uranus both have been having some seriously hard transits to your chart. T saturn is also in Fourth house.
You are a Cancer rising, Leo sun and sag moon.

I do not think you have a necessarily sucidal chart, any chart has the potential for something that could make a person think of suicide. It is a common fallacy of people to think that no one ever even comtemplates suicide. Acting on it is another thing alltogether.

Sag moon first instinct is to run from anything resembling claustrobia or control. Sag moons abhor the thought of No freedom to think or act on their own. I think Sag moons are the most difficult moon to get along with as well. Why, no one can relate to the instictive urge to run like hell from anything they remotely suggests no freedom. Pluto transits to predominately Sag people would be hell. They have a difficult time dealing with the high emotional content that Pluto brings to town. It overwhelms them to the point of running in circles. It is not because they cannot handle it, it is because it takes them more time to digest it.

Being Cancer rising, you are sensitive as well. Leos are sensitive people too and proud.

Another common fallacy about Sag people is they do not get depressed. They do.

Sorry to hear about so many lessons you are having.

You also have the chiron and north node in 12th house in oppostion to Uranus and moon. Huge sixth house. You need more rest than the majority of people. You may hit burn out on subjects and it is really you need rest is all. Restlessness at your age is not uncommon.

There is much pressure on people your age to do more and more.

My daughter has ADD and finishing college with no meds. However, help was sought.

[Sagmoon]

Red:
i can agree, oh too such an extent!, about sag moon.. i've made so many mistakes when i 'did' run away.. then it was too late to comeback.. and when i did go back i felt like running again but even faster.. i get depressed, my moon wants me to change, to seek something else, then i do, then i feel i have no stability.. i don't finish what i start (major things) and when there is danger of being controlled, like you mentioned, i feel suffocated by everything...
i'm glad to know that i'm not the only one who feels like that. i've never met a sag moon before..i met perfectly stable and happy sag suns though (or they seemed like that)...

thx

[Sagmoon]

...and i do need too much rest.. but i thought that was just laziness.. .:)

about this transits.. i can never interpret them but i surely always have strong feelings that something is going on..

likewise sorry to hear about your daughter.. i've just googled it.. and i should read more..

[Arian Maverick]

I doubt all of this information will be relevant to you, but the first thing I noticed about your natal chart was that Neptune is located at the degree Pluto is currently transiting. I performed a Google search and this is what I found. Disregard the description of Chiron, for this was written in the year 2000 and the centaur has since moved on into Aquarius.

Pluto and� Chiron Conjunct Neptune
.......This is a one-of-a-kind transit which� can serve to connect people with the unseen aspects of life,� and it is fairly unique to our time in history. If you were born� starting in December 1974 you are near the end of the� Pluto conjunct Neptune process, and those born through December� 1976 are near the beginning of this transit. If you are slightly� older, you get a chance to understand what you just went through.� If you are younger, you get to size up the situation and consider� ways to make this process work for you..
......Pluto was discovered� in 1930 and information about it only started appearing in the� astrology books in the 1970s. Nearly 10 years later, the first� book (Pluto: Evolutionary Journey of the Soul by Jeff� Green) was published on the subject of this most important planet,� more than half a century after its discovery. Alternately, Chiron� was discovered in 1977, articles started appearing very rapidly,� and books started coming out within a couple of years. Both planets� have reshaped the way astrologers think, whether they use the� planets or not.
.......Pluto conjunct natal Neptune is rarely� mentioned, it occurs in the mid-20s during these decades of history,� and is responsible for much avoidable misery. It is sublime because� it involves two outer planets, and the outer planets are barely� understood even by fairly advanced astrologers.
.......Presently, Neptune is "ahead" of Pluto in the sky, meaning that, for example, Neptune is now� in Aquarius and Pluto is a couple of signs back in Sagittarius.� It's been this way the entire century, though of course both� planets are moving at their respective speeds (which are currently� about identical). So, after a person is born, Pluto eventually� goes over the degree where Neptune was at the time of birth,� forming a conjunction by transit.
.......Because Chirion and Pluto are now� together in Sagittarius, this sub-generation is experiencing� a compound transit to their natal Neptune placement in Sagittarius� that is likely to have great emphasis on shaping the inner awareness,� as well as the spiritual and cultural values of these people;� indeed, shaping all their values. [Note: For more information� about this conjunction, please see The River� of Night.] The historical moment of major transits is important;� it is like a birth moment. Those who are born with Neptune between� 10 and 13 degrees Sagittarius are under unusually strong influence� of the tides of change coursing through society at this time.� Consider the house placement of Neptune in the natal chart and� you will get a sense of where in life this impact will be the� most pronounced.
.......Neptune is a fairly nebulous influence.� It is the vibration of higher mysticism, love and compassion� (not well understood here), and it can degrade to delusion, deception,� denial, drugs, and drink if it is lived unconsciously (all too� common, and, in effect, substitutes for the positive attributes� of Neptune).
.......Transiting Chiron works like a lens� and focuses the influence of Neptune. There can be some very� mystical moments in there when Chiron transits one's natal Neptune,� especially by conjunction; there will be opportunities to heal� the more difficult influences of Neptune; there will be opportunities� to heal drug-related issues, and I believe that recreational� drugs of any kind, and in some cases psychiatric meds, will be� dangerous to these people right now. If you choose to go off� your psychiatric medication, please do so under your doctor's� supervision. If you are under this transit or experienced it� recently, and if you are having difficulty in life and you use� recreational drugs, please consider stopping. The highly sensitive� Neptune energy needs a chance to clear out and be itself.
.......But the Pluto factor must be considered� in this equation. .
.......Neptune in Sagittarius� is a very idealistic and spiritually conscious placement. The� result of the Pluto transit may be a kind of religious obsession,� or perhaps a distortion, or, with any luck, an awakening. Spiritual� awakenings in young people count only for so much, because they� must stand the tests of time and circumstances. But I have no� doubt that some experiencing this transit will become very cosmically� aware, have their intuition opened and their sense of universal� compassion activated. Burning off delusions and la-la land thpiritual� concepts will be one benefit, just make sure there is something� left to eat after you cook dinner over that open flame.
.......Pluto's long transit through this� sign, which lasts another decade, is forcing us to make sense� of a variety of issues involving being a global culture, and� the effects of the conjunction in this sign may be far less devastating� than in 60s births, who had Neptune in Scorpio, and many of whom� died of AIDS as Pluto came through.
.......The modern equivalent would be a killing� of or loss of faith; there is enough of that in this world; be� kind to people of this age, for they are very impressionable� and their ideals will burn like balsa wood.
.......Pluto is often criticized and despised� for moving so slowly. But it's good that Pluto takes so long,� because we would not want these changes to happen fast, nor would� they be as meaningful. The motto of all Pluto transits is one� day at a time, living consciously and carefully, and therefore� slowly. The motto of all Chiron transits is Pay Attention. Chiron's� presence can mitigate or greatly improve what otherwise might� be a difficult life transition for people with Neptune in these� degrees of Sagittarius. People born in the late 70s and early� 80s will experience just the Chiron aspect of this transit; Pluto,� which moves much slower, will catch up in several years.

Arian Maverick

[Sagmoon]

thank you, Arian ..
it's very helpful.. maybe it's the explanation why i feel like that.. i should do more reading into that.. :o

[Arian Maverick]

On a lighter note, although Jupiter is currently separating from a trine with your natal Sun, the Greater Benefic will turn retrograde in early April at 19 Sagittarius 47 and eventually form an exact trine with your Sun before turning direct early August at 09 Sagittarius 57 and make a second trine! ;)

EDIT:I just created the Current Astrological Chart (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/now.php) and realized that Jupiter is located at 17°34' Sagittarius, which is almost exactly conjunct your natal Sagittarius Moon at 17°06' Sagittarius.

Arian Maverick

[Sagmoon]

On a lighter note, although Jupiter is currently separating from a trine with your natal Sun, the Greater Benefic will turn retrograde in early April at 19 Sagittarius 47 and eventually form an exact trine with your Sun before turning direct early August at 09 Sagittarius 57 and make a second trine! ;)

EDIT:I just created the Current Astrological Chart (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/now.php) and realized that Jupiter is located at 17°34' Sagittarius, which is almost exactly conjunct your natal Sagittarius Moon at 17°06' Sagittarius.

Arian Maverick

wow, i just looked at what transiting jupiter means and it sounds very good..although i'm not very good with transits yet :o... and i feel better having so much attention on this site :) ( oh my leo sun..)

i'm thinking if the transiting saturn squaring my natal saturn could've contributed to severe depression i had in previous years? and if it's going to be hard once it's going to square my mars in scorpio.. i believe i should do more reaserch.. before i, in a way, felt stifled and unable to relax, always having some unexpressed intense energy inside. now it comes and goes..i definately managed to try to deal with depression over the years but still feel the pressure and insecurity from previous life, so many years wasted :(...

thank you,
sagmoon

[astro.teacher]

Anytime anything of melancholic depression comes up, suicides & etc. ALWAYS look to the placement of Saturn. He is the prime culprit in all of those problems. He is directly squared with your Sun as well zapping the "life" right out of the Sun, even though the Sun is well dignified in Leo. Your Saturn is in the 6th leading to many medical problems, depression and suicide I believe can be considered "medical" under some contexts. Your Ascendants ruler (Moon) is in the 6th house as well. The ruler of your 8th House is of Saturn and therefore ties death to be an issue with you. I believe those points point out significations of your issue. Please remember, now that you know where the problem comes from, now you can change it and make it better. We have free will in astrology, US IT!
http://antiquus.50webs.com/Free.html


Aaron Brody - Astro.Teacher
http://antiquus.50webs.com (http://antiquus.50webs.com/)
Antiquus Astrologia

[SimplyRed]

Saturn, Yea, LOL

The ole taskmaster, It can zap you or structure you.

Sag moon, on the flip side always search for the light and highly intuitive. they view wide beautiful vestas and know there is one somewhere.


As far as sticking to a task and completing it, develop completion of small tasks and move on to more complicated tasks. This will give you an internal sense of stability. Nothing like rewarding yourself for anything done well.

Frankly, I love my Sag moon.

[Sagmoon]

yes, thank you guys, it's all very helpful...maybe it's easier when someone else tries to interpret it.. huge 6th house though, i've always wandered.. why doesn't it show beside getting ill whenever i hit problems.. i have a huge uncertainty in what i do, and i always thought i should be more dedicated to what i do, or at least dedicated to my work..i do have a part time job, where i always work hard, but i get unstable outside work and can't concentrate on my homework etc...

saturn.. hmm i think it stops me from being a leo i'd love to be...i'll keep in mind it's suicidal..

i guess i should stop complaining..



...
Frankly, I love my Sag moon.
whether it's uranus in sag that squares mercury, or the very moon that squares and makes me run, with time i realised that i don't have to run too far so i just go for walk..and it's usually from a place that makes me feel something unpleasant, straihgt home.. cancer rising.. but frankly, i love my rebelious, mischievous and metaphisycal moon too.. :)

thx

[Themis]

Another common fallacy about Sag people is they do not get depressed. They do.



exactly. though being a fire sign, Saggitarius is also a sign of melancholy, it's a point that many tend to neglect.

[SimplyRed]

What are you studying Right now, Sag moon

You have a Aqu MC in and Uranus in sixth sextile MC, along with your moon. When Pluto hits your Jupiter it should be very empowering. You have had a lot of hard hits from planets.

You have a Virgo Mercurry which is great with details, organization, logic and reason. You like creativity and the innovative.

Where do you study? Studying and learning is a self tool people teach themselves over the years. With Ninth house Aqua, Uranus in sixth. How have you learned the best over the years. by yourself or Helping someone else learn new ideas.

[Sagmoon]

Hi... wow i'm so flattered! thx.. and you know so much.. does my uranus in H6 mean i like to help others to learn? well i really do.. and with sag moon and leo i always wanted to teach.. not sure if i ever will now, after everything i've been through...my heart is broken

my interests in what i study are so unstable. but it wasn't always so: i grew up in the family of artists and being an artsit is what i wanted since i was a child. i still think i can do something amazing... if only... moving to another country spoilt quite a lot for me, not being able to express myself perfectly i felt shy and so withdrew even further into my shell (as a child i was quiet and very shy and unsure of myself).. then i begun to realise that maybe i'm not an artist afterall, then i fell depressed. it's quite a complex story, but i think i was angry with my mum for some time since i 'felt' like it's what she wanted me to be. bt that's another story. there was more to my life so at first i begun to explore politics than history then philosophy and then science (i also had other interests like graphic desing and architechture).. i'm doing science now, but i had to go back to college for that. next year i hope to go to uni. only i'm not sure what area of science i want to study ( and whether i want science afterall, gosh this sag moon...although maybe it's not the moon). it feels now that everything is telling me to take a better look at astrology and it's becoming quite a big ineterest (even though i've been interested in astrology since i was 15, but for one or another reason i never got into it completely).. how do i fit it in with the rest of my life i don't know.. i need some philosophy, i need to do something that has a purpose or that will help me to look for the... truth? maybe... i'm guessing this should sound a bit familiar to you.. maybe i'm overlooking something in my life like i usually do, i don't know. my sister tells me she often feels the same, and i have to just do something, not to leave it or run from it again. then maybe one day it's going to make sense..

thx again :)
sag moon..

ps hmm i don't think i've answered your question.. sorry can't help this surreal existence..

[astro.teacher]

exactly. though being a fire sign, Saggitarius is also a sign of melancholy, it's a point that many tend to neglect.
That is impossible. Saturn rules Melancholy and there is no Melancholy in fire Signs, nor has melancholy ever ruled fire Signs, especially a sign of Jupiter who is the complete opposite to Saturn.

Aaron Brody - Astro.Teacher
http://antiquus.50webs.com (http://antiquus.50webs.com/)
Antiquus Astrologia

[SimplyRed]

Art is simply an expression of self. Whatever style or art form a person chooses may be up to them. Sorry, you are broken hearted about art.
You come from a family of artists, Kate Winslet does as well. She is a Libra.

Art, so many forms.
What form just makes you happy from the inside without anyone saying anything.

[Sagmoon]

Art is simply an expression of self. Whatever style or art form a person chooses may be up to them. Sorry, you are broken hearted about art.
You come from a family of artists, Kate Winslet does as well. She is a Libra.

Art, so many forms.
What form just makes you happy from the inside without anyone saying anything.

oh this is the most sensitive subjects ever... my art...in the form of just a few drawings and paintings that's left (all the other ones are thrown away by me) is hidden somewhere under my bed where no one is allowed to look.. not even me... i say to myself that one day i'll came back to it.. and sometimes it hurts (knowing that i've destroyed what is given to me, virtually for free) sometimes it gives me hope..still even now i'm thinking i can't be a full time, or dedicated artist. maybe it's the moon, i simply need to explore, to run free... knowledge, knowledge...in some form or other...

goodnight,

sagmoon

[Claire19]

Hello there
I can well understand your confusion about your work situation. You have so many planets in the 6th house and you really need to focus on your diet as this can contribute to depression. I know as I have been there. When I reached 30 or so I started to take vitamins and changed my diet and my depression gradually got better. You may be allergic to all sorts of things. You do tend to have unstable and exaggerated emotional reactions but you are young yet. Your Sun Leo in 3rd house square your Saturn in the 6th Scorpio can lead to depressive thoughts about your everyday circumstances.

You could do well in the publishing and print media and photo journalism for instance. THe travel industry, promotions, sales and languages. Being a tour guide, teaching especially the young.

I absolutely see sensitivity to certain foods and beverages and would investigate herbal supplements and even grow some of your own.

Good luck from a fellow loaded 6th house

Claire

[Themis]

That is impossible. Saturn rules Melancholy and there is no Melancholy in fire Signs, nor has melancholy ever ruled fire Signs, especially a sign of Jupiter who is the complete opposite to Saturn.

Aaron Brody - Astro.Teacher
http://antiquus.prophp.org/
Antiquus Astrologia

P50 of "Martial Art of Hoary Astrology" of Lee Lehman uses precisely the word "melancholic" as part of the description of the sign of sagitarrius.

[astro.teacher]

I have absolutely no idea where that comes from, is there anything else in that description? Which states "Saturn in Sagittarius"? There is no reasonable link to melancholy and Sagittarius, as Sag is ruled by Jupiter, the complete opposite of melancholy temperment. Fire rules choleric not melancholy, the complete opposite.

Aaron Brody - Astro.Teacher
http://antiquus.50webs.com (http://antiquus.50webs.com/)
Antiquus Astrologia

[Sagmoon]

Hello there
I can well understand your confusion about your work situation. You have so many planets in the 6th house and you really need to focus on your diet as this can contribute to depression. I know as I have been there. When I reached 30 or so I started to take vitamins and changed my diet and my depression gradually got better. You may be allergic to all sorts of things. You do tend to have unstable and exaggerated emotional reactions but you are young yet. Your Sun Leo in 3rd house square your Saturn in the 6th Scorpio can lead to depressive thoughts about your everyday circumstances.

You could do well in the publishing and print media and photo journalism for instance. THe travel industry, promotions, sales and languages. Being a tour guide, teaching especially the young.

I absolutely see sensitivity to certain foods and beverages and would investigate herbal supplements and even grow some of your own.

Good luck from a fellow loaded 6th house

Claire

wow, thank for that..i never thought that many planets can bring so many differences in things that i want.. whenever i read about planets in 6H it was all good, except for the moon, that said my resposibilities will be varied. I guess all of the planets can create confusion, and it's like i always want to do two things. That certainly clarifies a lot. i'll try to concentrate on one particular quality and try to keep my moon more constant.

i have also tried to have a healthy life style and take vitamins. however i can never be constant. still i guess with time i should become more confident and therefore more reliable upon myself. i will inverstigate further into allergies which i've never done, though at one stage i felt like it. and try herbal supplements.

career with the young, that involves lots of travelling (although my nervous system might not like it..and i'll need a good home to wait for me to comeback) really appeals to me....who knows maybe good job and travel will cure me..:)

thanks you Claire:)

sagmoon

[Claire19]

I agree Sagittarius is in no way connected to melancholy. Even with the co ruler of Neptune that some may use, that connection is religiosity, philanthropic tendencies, interest in spiritual law. Even Saturn in Sagittarius for instance would give a more conventional outlook to religion and philosophy, an authority with judiciary matters, can mean a loss of faith sure, father restless, curious, travels a lot, jovial, kind and larger than life, irresponsible.... many scenarios. Where Jupiter is for instance gives hope, faith, optimism and protection. It may exaggerate issues but not sadness or melancholy.

Melancholy belongs to water, Neptune, Moon.

Claire

[astrobhadauria]

Dear,
I read full comments from all well known friends,and I am not satishfied with above comments,reason is I am reading in Vedic Astrology,that "Rahu",you call in your words "North Node of Moon",in atteched chart the Rahu is seing in 12th House,(Gemini) and making oppositions with Saturn,Mars,Moon,Jupiter,and also with Ketu (South Node of Moon),Urenus,Neptune.The meaning or Rahu in Vedic Astrology like this type-The native may be ambitious, liberal, will have high morals, and will be friendly. The person will be famous and valiant. The native is good looking, hardworking and very happy. One is benevolent. This combination is suitable for spiritual knowledge. If one has an interest in the Vedanta then one will have a saintly nature. One will benefit from public association. If one stays at one place then one's wishes are fulfilled. Inspite of one's efforts there may be inauspicious results in beginning and auspicious results in the end. The enemies of the native are destroyed. One's earlier life may be unstable. One may have to leave one's family and travel to the north in search of a living. The native will not gain in one's native land. Good fortune is attained abroad. The native will earn a lot but also spend a lot. In the twelfth year death of either of the parents may take place. In the 21-22nd year the native starts earning a living. In the sixteenth year there may be gain of paternal wealth. In the 35th year there may be good fortune. In the 21st year second marriage may take place, if one have been married once before in childhood. Otherwise there is possibility of second marriage from the 32nd -36th year.The native may have only one or two sons. The planet will give auspicious interpretations.(When making oppositions with Saturn,Mars,Uranus,and Moon or Sun)The native is imprudent, foolish and worried. One may be fond of quarrelling and talking uselessly. One may always be involved in conspiracies. One may perform lowly deeds, have sinful ideas, perform wicked deeds and may commit sins secretively. One may quarrel at home and bring defame to the family. One may wear dirty clothes and have dirty nails. The native may be weak and opposed to one's relatives and friends. One may envy good people and be friendly with wicked people. The native may waste time uselessly, incur debts and be poor. One may be extravagant and may spend money for ill deeds. One may stay in the company of wicked people and spend money on bad habits, therefore one is worried about financial problems. Foreigners and tribal may steal the person's money. One may be pitiable. According to Vaidyanath, one may be rich, but according to other writers one may be poor. The person may stay away from one's spouse and may give pain to the spouse. One will be passionate. One may suffer from eye ailments and bad vision. One may suffer foot injuries, and wounds on the legs. One will suffer gastric problems in the back, the ribs and the heart. One may suffer from a burning sensation in the abdomen. One may fall down and may be handicapped. The native may be unsuccessful in life. Inspite of all one's efforts, one may not succeed and one's work may suffer. One may wander aimlessly but may not attain wealth. On the contrary, one's work may suffer. The living may cause pain. One's maternal uncle may die. One may marry twice. The native may suffer eye ailments.The other planets may give inauspicious resuts.

[archergirl]

Hiya, I'll chip in on this one as I have a lot of experience with depression and suicidal thoughts. I have the classic 'bipolar' aspects: Moon conjunct Saturn in the 3rd, opposing Jupiter in the 9th. I used to swing back and forth, for YEARS, before I got to grips with it. It took a stint on antidepressants, 18 sessions with a very competent therapist, and lots of personal work, but I got there.

Sagmoon, it was difficult to read through all the valuable information other people have put on this thread for you (there was a lot of it!) but two things stuck out, that seem to have been missed so far (unless I missed them :rolleyes: ):

1. Saturn has been transiting over your Sun for quite awhile now, which is a really tough transit.

2. Pluto has a MASSIVE transit going on with you: Pluto has hit nearly every single one of your personal planets (all in your 6th) since the time you were BORN. No *wonder* you've felt depressed and suicidal: being that you are still young, you haven't had the advantage of the 'wisdom of age and experience' to know how to deal with it except through depression.

Pluto went over my Venus about four years ago, and is now directly conjunct my Sun. Eventually it will hit my 12th house Mercury. I understand what it's like to feel your back's against the wall. But it isn't. Transits, luckily, go away after awhile. The catch is that in order to navigate the very rough waters of a difficult transit, you have to work at it, work on yourself, try to understand what the *root* discontentments are that are reflected outward into anger/depression/wanting to end it all. To be successful, you have to find something in your life to give it meaning.

For me, the one thing that kept me from death (besides not wanting to be thought of as a chickens**t for giving up), was my kids. I thought about suicide, at one point, on a thrice-daily basis. But I couldn't, *wouldn't*, do that to my kids. You must have people who love you, and your actions will affect them, too.

You have a lot of stuff in the 6th house; you also have that great 3rd house Sun. My first thought is either 'teacher' or perhaps some kind of nursing or community outreach. You will understand other people who are having a rough time; people who have been there make the best helpers for those who are still going through it.

Since you have so many planets in Sag, is there some way you can travel, say, for a charity (VSO, Oxfam, etc)? That would serve both your Sadgie planets AND your need to perform 6th house stuff.

I promise you, transits pass. Even the most horrible ones! You *will* come out a better person, too, that I can also promise. Pluto, whilst being VERY challenging, has left me feeling better (now) than I have felt my entire life, and I've had quite a few more years on this planet than you! :p

Best wishes,
AG

[Sagmoon]

Dear Archergirl :)
Thank you for your input. Since i read it the first time, the aspects begun to make more sense to me. i didn't even realise that saturn was transiting.. and on top of that it was squaring my natal saturn, so i can see now that it was very hard indeed. i don't know how long it was squaring my saturn but i begun to feel better since about last summer.. ? i was able to start fighting everything i broke in my life. I begun to look around me and ask why did i feel like that when everything is so much better than it seemed. Before, whenever i would ask, i never looked for the answer even though i thought i did. Things were always bad for me. It must be those Pluto transits as well. Not enough experience, i can agree with that, it's the craziest thing to go through when you're that young. But I was/ still so different from so many young people, even though i'm trying to fit in and am succeding to a certain extent. I think mars in scorpio in me can be cruel. It squares my sun, my venus and so i had a tendency to harm myself.. on a very large scale. Then as i understand since my ascendant is cancer, i'm affected by the moon more easily (?) i have felt the moon since a long time... Little thing could've added a lot to my depression.. now it last for a while than leaves.

My past is painful.. when i remember it i want to jump out of my skin.. but i look forward to become stronger with each year. Sometimes now i don't even recognise myself: from being very shy and insecure, i appear to people as a person that knows herself and knows where i'm going.. When i heard it from someone else i was shoked.. i'm not proud of it, i'm still insecure, but when i'm not down i'm able to live and so would like to stay like that.

How do i live with a scorpio in me, that can be too intense (and sometimes i feel like i can make myself very strong (maybe it's leo though).. well i didn't feel like that in the past..) but i hate these feelings, they hurt me.. i try to find a balance between me and mars,saturn/scorpio etc but it's still hard ...

..I feel so inspired everytime i login.. it's the best place to be :)

So thank you..

[archergirl]

Hiya, Sagmoon,

I don't think there's a human on this planet who hasn't felt like an alien at some time in their lives. Fitting in is important to a certain extent, fitting in enough to hold down a job, find meaningful work, etc., and it is a necessary part of the 'game' of life. But remember, just because you had troubles fitting into your peer-group, does NOT make you an alien; the thing with being different is to try to come to terms with that difference, and then find a good group of friends, or even a single good friend, who can put up with you. :p

But first and foremost you must learn to love yourself, just as you are, painful past, any regretful decisions you may have made (and God, who amongst us hasn't made any of those?!) difficult transits, everything.

Your Mars in Scorpio really only squares your Venus, although there is a wide square with your Sun. Having an awareness of your natal chart is actually a HUGE advantage over people who don't use astrology as a method for self-understanding; you have a whole extra set of tools in your 'tool kit' you can use to help yourself. Be careful about boxing yourself in to a certain definition of an aspect in your chart (Mars in Scorpio is cruel, Sag moon means blah blah, etc) because there are infinite manifestations of these aspects. *Knowing* how these aspects are expressed can be very helpful; because then you can spot when that aspect is active, and temper it with your awareness.

My past is painful.. when i remember it i want to jump out of my skin.. but i look forward to become stronger with each year. Sometimes now i don't even recognise myself: from being very shy and insecure, i appear to people as a person that knows herself and knows where i'm going.. When i heard it from someone else i was shoked.. i'm not proud of it, i'm still insecure, but when i'm not down i'm able to live and so would like to stay like that.

Sagmoon, past events in some people's lives are *incredibly* painful, and sometimes it takes years to work them through. The thing is, to keep going, to not give up, to remember that the past *really is in the past* and can only affect you, in the present, as much as you allow it to. Some healing comes from others, in the form of a good therapist or an understanding friend or family member. Most healing comes from within, when you find yourself in a steady enough place to confront who you are and what beliefs you have had about yourself that no longer serve you.

It sounds like you are getting to that point. This is what that whole Pluto transit is about, to scrape away the ugly stuff you've been carrying around and literally hurting yourself with, and releasing it, rising above it.

You must trust me when I say: keep going. It is scary, to 'wake up' one day and realise that you are not who you were before; realise, too, that that is a good thing, because you can only get stronger. You must find a safe outlet for your anger, and not direct it at yourself; I don't know if you have tried therapy, but I cannot recommend it enough. I refused for years and years, and when I finally got some free sessions from my workplace I wondered why I had waited for so long! :p

If it is any comfort at all, your most difficult transits will only continue for a few more years (although you'll always be having a transit somewhere in your chart); your last Pluto conjunction will be to Jupiter at 3 degrees Capricorn (it's within aspect now, but will continue for awhile yet).

I have a feeling that if you are able to stay present and aware of how your moods change, and deal with them accordingly, and *work through* the issues of the past in order to let them go, you will come through this transit feeling much clearer and probably more stable than you may have ever felt. And THAT, I guarantee, will make it all worthwhile. Every last bit of it.

Best wishes,
AG:)

[Sag Moon]

We have some similar traits. Things might get less stressful once Pluto and Jupiter moves into Cap..

Stay clear of drugs and there is ability for you to create and help others.

Pluto is playing Havoc for those with Cancer Rising with Moon Sags right now.Hang tough!

5\13\60
NYC
8:12am

[Natasha]

I agree with a previous poster that Pluto has been passing over you Sag planets is a big way. He has been around your Neptune which aspects your moon so continuing the Pltuo moon transit you have been having for more than a couple of years. No other transit takes us into the underworld more than pluto to moon imo.
I dont see a suicidal chart as you dont have a lot of pisces or 12th house or overly difficult aspects from Neptune.
You have a lot of 6th so get that body moving and get out there. I want to suggest you get into drama or do something creative due to the Leo & the 5th house Pluto.
See a counsellor to help guide you thru the rest of you pluto moon transit. They are like the ferryman taking us into the underworld of our psyche so we can SEE what it is that Pluto wants us to let go of or transform.
Go out & shine with your Leo sun which brings light into the worlde. From one Leo to another

[flea]

Hi Sagmoon,

I can relate to a lot in this thread and also your chart. Although 20 years almost apart... My sun is 18 sagin the 6th, my NN to 4 deg gem in the 12th and my MC 19 Aqu. I also have a wide orb Saturn in 10 sq Sun. The last aspect is tough, as you may have been taught by experience to be far too hard on yourself. Remeber this whenever you catch yourself criticising yourself. You are perfect just the way you are. It is ok not too work to take some time to yourself, and to be kind and nuturing to yourself no matter what it is you feel you should do.

I also have the artist gift. It was something I lost from 18 to 36. I was also an unconfident shy child. My depression came in my mid thirties, as Pluto was coming up on my Sun. It changed me so I concentrated on what I wanted to dop not what others thought I should do. It was a hard thing for my parents to deal with even at my age. I gave up my architectural career. something I note you mentioned to. I love the subject, dont like how it is practiced.

Oh I also have a cancer moon, and gem asc, which gives me a similar house distribution. Lots of 6th house, sun merc, neptune. I am sensitive to foods etc. I take evening primrose, and chlorella. Get lots of sleep, and spend time on my own to do my own thing, which I do love now. Art needs a lot of quiet time without too much interference. I started painting with Pluto on my Sun and have enough for an exhibition now, this was after a big depression period. I never studied it at uni, but no I realise that is not where you learn art!

I also notice you have Aries Libra intercepted in 5th/11th. Exactly the same as me. I understood this as not owning my own power, I let other people tell me where it was. I stopped listening to myself. Then I realised that the people telling me what to do , had no idea had no vested interest and were often projecting their own thoughts and fears onto me. It was so empowering to do my own thing, went off and studied a master in Art Therapy, learnt about all the things I wanted including all the stuff that wasn't approved by my parents. There is still a disapproving, but I realise that was just what they were taught.

Billy Connolly a sag sun comedian said the only thing he likes about religion was Budhist and went like this. Find out what you do and do it!

Very very wise. I think you know what you do, but are maybe persuaded it is not what you should do. Go with your heart and follow your own wisdom. I wish someone had said that to me when I was your age. But with everything I say..... take what really really speaks to you, and leave all the rest here.



Love & Light
Flea

[Sagmoon]

Hello everyone again:)
thank you so much for all the input. I have no internet at home at the moment so am not able to reply at all. .. :( now i have only about 10 min in internet cafe....anyway

Flea, to read about you was very inspiring. I was inetested in architecture quite siriously, but i liked the philosophical side of it more. Or the side of engineering, since i like the technicalities. but i thought that as a career i couldn't do it, so i left without staring a uni degree.

You are quite right about art, you learn it by yourself. i've been saying it to my teachers for so long. They didn't believe me, maybe they found a way around it though and were dedicated. But thinking about myself, esp in our time were modern art lacks any structure or academy as it used to be, art is very difficult to learn through projects that they set to you in your study.. am too very interested in art therapy.. but i know, that prob just like you, i will go back to art (or something creative) later in life, i know now for sure that i'm wating for something to come or simply change.
only, what am i suppose to do now, i don't know. But i'm looking and searching and trying to enjoy it? ok well, only if it's possible.

About drama, ye i'd like that too.. :) i will join a club if it's possible once i'm in uni. But then as a career.. hmm.. i like sports a lot, in fact since the last lunar eclipse, that was drowing, i was excersising quite regularly, i like it. i even started thinking that maybe i can do somehting like running in the marathon or something..

i have so much to say, i will write more once i get my internet sorted..

thank you all

S

[flea]

You will get where you want to go. If you come across negative people know that you can leave and find positive people that will help you. Set times but do not feel bad if things come later or your plans change. Dont give up that is the only thing that stops you.

When you get to A level the books by K.A. Stroud are really good, well thought out and understandable. I wish I had had them before I failed my Maths A Level, it seemed so straightforward when I read them later.

Anger can be a very good motivational tool to doing positive things. I used anger and channeled it into giving up smoking. Find a way to express all you feel. Everything can be expressed in a positive way in art, dance, poetry, music, and sculpture.

love & light
Flea