AS Roma/Lyon UEFA League

[Themis]

kickoff: 20h45, 21 Feburary, 2007, GMT+1, 41N54/12E29 (Rome, Italy)

the colors teams unknown. I attribute ASC (7°54 Libra) to Rome, home team, favorite. DC:Lyon. ruler of ASC venus in Aries, in fall, in 6th. ruler of DC, Mars in Capricorn, in exaltation in the 4th. So, Lyon wins.

the Moon is not void since i consider it is in orb of sextile with Sun. (but at the very last degree can indicate big/unexpected change?)

if you like, tell me how you judge for this match. thanks:D

[fensi88]

On UEFA official site for Roma there are no home and away colors, but from photos on page for Roma we can see that thay play in dark red kit. Also their blazon has these colours. And because thay are home team, that means thay will play for sure in their home kit, dark red. Dark red, regardin zodiacal colors is perfectly fits with Ma in Cap. So Roma is in my opinion DSC.
It is hard to tell in which sport kit Lyon will play, because their away sport kit is red/white. But because of TV broadcasting and easy regognaised by TV auditorium I suppose thay will dress their home official kit, white with red/blue brindl. That will match Li, Ve (white) and Ar (red), Ve in Ar. Also, their blazon has red and blue colour that matches with Ve(blue) in Ar(red). So I suppose, Lyon in this chart is represent with ASC.
Now we see, as you said, Ve weak in cadent house and Ma in exaltation in angular house, so DSC team will win, because accidental dignities for Ve=1 for Ma=21.

[fensi88]

Roma vs Lyon 0:0
Themis, unfortunately we both were wrong. I am really surprised that some of them did not score, because if we look at score of accidental dignities it is sooo big. (I was right about Lyon's sport kit, thay were "white" in this match.)


the Moon is not void since i consider it is in orb of sextile with Sun. (but at the very last degree can indicate big/unexpected change?)


I am very interested in about this sentence (bold font). Can you recomend me some article aboth Moon at the very last degree?

[Themis]

the Moon is not void since i consider it is in orb of sextile with Sun. (but at the very last degree can indicate big/unexpected change?)



thanks Goca for your judgement. as to the last degree of the Moon indicating change, this is a general impression that i've got after sneaking in and out on Deborah Houlding's Forum. i know you are there as well so you might have crossed the thread in which she answered a member that the late degree of Moon might indicate "changes" (i think that thread was about the moon at the last degree of Gemini). i find this point make sense and i tried to integrated into my judgement. i've not read relevant articles elsewhere.

as to the VOC of the moon, i also got the impression that Deborah seemed to say that when the aspect is in orbs, and the Moon is not truely void. personally i consider her to be the best Lilly writer so i did not check more. i may make mistakes in my understanding. I regret that Lyon did not win but i think as a guest team, the fact that he did not lose is already good enough. in fact i only caught the last 15 minutes' match since i was out.

the other thing is that i still feel resistent in using teams colors as method. i've read on your site and i've learned truleya lot. but it seems to me that if you allow a certain color to ASC, you already attribute this team with more accidental dignity uniquely from their appearance, isn't it? but in learning astrology i've come to understand ASC is more than mere appearance of colors, it can be corporture, strengh, etc... why i've been puzzled. best, Themis:)

[fensi88]

the other thing is that i still feel resistent in using teams colors as method.

From my experience this method gave me best results, but not always. So if you find 100% secure method let us know we will accept that method.

...but it seems to me that if you allow a certain color to ASC, you already attribute this team with more accidental dignity uniquely from their appearance, isn't it?

Whatever method you use, ASC team will have more accidental dignities, that has no connection with colour.

[Themis]

Goca, thanks and i agree the 100% is almost impossible...what about another try for the 2nd leg? 20:45 (CET=GMT+1) 06 Mars, 2007, Lyon, Frnce. very interesting chart since the moon is in Via Combustia, but in antiscion with the Sun. I think Roma has better chance to win but still need to read further...and the Vendiamedix, well...themis

[fensi88]

I couldn’t believe this chart (Roma vs Lyon) deliver wrong answer, so I came back to it. I check out accidental dignities, and I could not believe – I made error in maths! Me rx!
So, here are right maths for accidental dignities for rulers of this chart: (For Lilly's table to examine the strenght & debility of each planet go to this link:

http://www.geocities.com/astrosport88/accdigdeb.html (http://www.geocities.com/astrosport88/accdigdeb.html)

Ve in 6 house= -2 Ma in 4 house= 4
direct in motion Ve=4 Ma=4
swift in motion Ve=2 Ma=2
occidental Ve=2 oriental Ma=2
free from combust and sun’s beam Ve=5 Ma=5
Partile conjuct with Ve=5 partile conjuct with Ma= -5
sum Ve=16 Ma=12
Because differnece is not big we examine essential dignities:
Ve peregrine, detriment, mutual reception= -6
Ma exaltation=4
Ve=16-6=10 Ma=12+4=16
Now, we see that difference again is not big and with Moon VOC we can expect draw.

PS. For second leg I will look at chart tomorow.

[fensi88]

Here is my opinion for Lyon vs Roma.
Moon is in Via combust erea. This area can be very disruptive, producing unexpected turns of events. Read this article on that theme:http://www.geocities.com/astrosport88/novaknadal.html

Very often I am wrong when predicting results of chart with Moon in Via combust.
See what we have here, as you said very interesting chart...
I would asign ASC to Lyon (white sport kit), so Roma is DSC.
Both Ve, and Moon in first house, is in same degree as Nodes. This can indicate some sort of catastrofe. ASC ruler in 7 house, that means ASC is in hands of enemy. Not good.
Ruler of DSC in 4 house, but not in same sign as 4 house cusp, so it is not so strong.
We must check out accidental dignities.
I got Ve=22 Ma=12
So difference is 10, this is from my experience still draw, but because of fact that Ve and Moon is in same degre as Nodes and ve in 7 house I give advantage to Roma. Probably, thay will go to next leg by penalty.

[Themis]

I
Partile conjuct with Ve=5 partile conjuct with Ma= -5
sum Ve=16 Ma=12
Because differnece is not big we examine essential dignities:
Ve peregrine, detriment, mutual reception= -6
Ma exaltation=4
Ve=16-6=10 Ma=12+4=16
Now, we see that difference again is not big and with Moon VOC we can expect draw.


good for you, Goca. i think the math is really important! nevertheless, i realized that you count "partile conjunc with Venus" for Venus and "Partile conjunct with Mars" for Mars. is this a rule? Venus is in Mars, in detriment---falls into one of the 5 categories---so if it is already in detriment, it can not be "perigrine", isn't it? what does it mean by "mutual reception" in your counting? how did you get -6? i remember Lehman said that she does not believe in relieving the "peregrine" by "mutual reception", do you follow her? i got the global dignities for Venus+4, and Mars +6, as you said, the difference is almost ignorable. this could be a good sign for draw, you are right. Themis

[Themis]

I would asign ASC to Lyon (white sport kit), so Roma is DSC.
Both Ve, and Moon in first house, is in same degree as Nodes. This can indicate some sort of catastrofe. ASC ruler in 7 house, that means ASC is in hands of enemy. Not good.
Ruler of DSC in 4 house, but not in same sign as 4 house cusp, so it is not so strong.
We must check out accidental dignities.
I got Ve=22 Ma=12
So difference is 10, this is from my experience still draw, but because of fact that Ve and Moon is in same degre as Nodes and ve in 7 house I give advantage to Roma. Probably, thay will go to next leg by penalty.

hi Goca, i just did not understand the point that the "Venus and Moon at the same degree of node" rule. if you have time, could you help explain?

like you i attribute AS to Lyon as you said they have two shirts so i don't know which one they will wear. i stick to the home team as ASC. the comparison of the significators follows similar procedure as you. but i notice the ASC is conjonct with notorious fixed star. I look at the 4th house as well, for the "end of the match". significator of lyon is in bad situation, though significator of Roma is in via combusta, yet the MC (the 4th for Roma) of the chart is at exactly the exaltation degree of Jupiter. Jupiter at home. i think the end would be very satisfying for Roma, knowing that Roma is lagged behind Lyon for the time being. i forsee winning up of Roma since a draw might not signify such a satisfying result. nevertheless, i am totally lost in counting the goal, if Roma wins, there must be at least one goal i don't know how to count at all. just a thought. Themis

[fensi88]

Ve peregrine, detriment, mutual reception= -6
My astroprogram listed Ve as peregrine, detriment and in mutual reception by exaltation with Su. From Lilly's table
of essential dignities evry planet in detriment gets -5, peregrine also -5, and +4 if it is in mutual reception by exaltation. I hope now you see how I got -6.

hi Goca, i just did not understand the point that the "Venus and Moon at the same degree of node" rule. if you have time, could you help explain?

This shows a fated appointment or fateful event, possibly some sort of catastrophe. This indicator has been used mainly in Horary Astrology and if such a condition
exists, it means the situation is out of the hands of the Querent.

i realized that you count "partile conjunc with Venus" for Venus and "Partile conjunct with Mars" for Mars. is this a rule?

I did not do that until now, and I hope someone will see it and correct me if I am wrong. I would like if someone give me some example from some book where it is count as I did or not to be sure what to do in next cases.

[Themis]

Goca, thanks for your explaination!:)

[Themis]

so the outcome is Roma: Lyon, 2:0. the two goals of Roma: 1st, 22 minute of the first half. 2nd, 44 minute of the first half. i noticed that around 22 minute the moon change house so this explains the first goal, but the second goal i don't see how it should be calculated.

[fensi88]

Themis, I do not know which house system you look, but for Regiomontanus house system I get for 23 min Me rx enter from 5 into 4 house.
For 44 min 5 house cusp change sign from Aq to Pi.