am i going to be ok? when will this end for me? what is in store for me after this?

[milkywaygirl]

not sure what

[Pisceanfool]

Hey Milkywaygirl,

I am sorry to hear your going through such a rough time. I am new with the whole horary deal but I know that you should specify your question. When you are asking a horary question you should really only ask one and be specific. Instead of saying, "when will this end?" you should ask something like, "will this end within the next few months?" or a certain time period to get a clearer answer.

I am not comfortable doing an analysis of progressions or transits yet. I think someone with more experience could tell you alot by looking at your progressions/transits as far as when this rough time will end.

I hope this helps you in some way...

[freedomlover]

Milkywaygirl,

I feel your pain and wish there was something I could say or do to help. I am sending you love and light.

Astrologically, the only thing I can say is that the Mercury retrograde (stationing February 13th on the midpoint of your natal Sun and IC) may help you sort this out and come to peace with it. I'm not sure of the degree of the upcoming eclipse (March 3), but it is on the Virgo/Pisces axis, as is the one in mid-March). You are probably already starting to feel the effects of these.

It may be hard for a while, but keep asking for what lesson this has all come to teach you, and you can break out of the cycle. This sounds a little nasty, but it gets the point across: think of it like a pimple or boil that has to come to a head, and then be drained before it can heal. Also, think of it that this is all really a gift in disguise. It's causing you to face something that needs to be healed so you can pursue your goals and dreams. You've probably heard all of that before, but I've found that when I'm in the middle of emotional overwhelm, it helps to remind myself with the structure of Spiritual law, and that it is there to work for me, not against me.

Peace to you,

Freedomlover

[lilllybelle]

Milky, Mercury is about to retrograde tomorrow and it's very close to your sun and 4th house. As you also know, the world can get kind of cranky as mercury stations retrograde. I know from reading your post in the past, that you sometimes get affected, as I do, when mercury staions to retrograde. Thinks will mellow out once mercury has went retrograde. You know this is true. The edge will come off once merc. retrogrades. Now on to other things. Transiting uranus is about to conjunct your moon. Did someone say stress? Seriouslly, this is crazy, chaotic energy that makes it hard to feel composed or sane. Do some yoga or something otherwise all of your hair will fall out.:D
Also there is the saturn return. Looking back on things my life got kind of crazy for about 3 or 4 years leading up to my saturn return. You might be feeling the birthing pains of saturn return. Life likes to make sure that you are a good steamed up pressure cooker by the time saturn returns. Funny life knows where all of our buttons are too. Plus the transiting nodes just rolled over your natal moon nodes bringing up a lot of karma. I also think the sat/nep opposition is affecting your acs/dec line. In a little more time your mars will be invited into the dance. Your progressed moon is moving through your 4th house. Can you imagine that? O.k. the progressed moon just moved away from a conjunction to your mercury in the 4th house. The merc/moon conjunction probally had you feeling nervous, ill at ease, tense and high strung. Good news is that conjunction is over and passing away. So it's ok to feel a little crazy right now. Just breathe into it, and embrace the craziness of the moment, and you might feel a little more sane. Please don't make any rash decisions though with the moon/uranus conjunction. Maybe what you really want is to have more freedom from your family. Now is the time with uranus/moon and the 4th house talking to you. Notice your saturn placement it shines at the top of your chart.

[Shining Ray]

All this could possibly be due to your transiting Saturn in the 9th square to your natal Uranus in the 12th. I am having this same transit as you and have felt very stressed but I haven't had the upheavals which you have been having. It seems Saturn is testing you and you are feeling very fearful/anxious and afraid of all these drastic changes around you. Saturn restricts whatever it comes into contact with so you are feeling a suppressed sense of freedom and feeling very resistant to the change which is surrounding your life at this time. With the Saturn/Uranus transit this is a time when the most individualistic parts of your life are being tested. The more resistant to the changes you are the more difficult this transit can feel. This transit can indicate a parting of ways, and a strong feeling of being held back. Natally your Saturn is opposed the moon so testing times for the family and a very testing time for your soul and your sensitive emotions.

From your step mothers point of view If the environment was so stressful/oppressive it probably was a necessary change for her to get out of the environment, for her own sake and for her own sanity. Hopefully she will contact you soon to put your mind at ease. And you will still be able to see your brother.

Try to stay focused as much as you can through this testing time. Saturn is the planet of maturity and maybe learning to be practical and objective at this time will help you. Find the inner strength you know you have to find a way through this problem, I sympathise with your situation because you do have a right to see your brother. I hope she calls soon, and at least puts your mind at rest.

[starlink]

Dear MW, yes, it is clear that all hell is breaking loose right now. Progressed Ascendant for starters is now conjunct your natal Neptune, the ruler of your 4th house of family, your roots, your childhood. It is clear from your chart that family issues is the biggest deal in your life. Why? Because Cancer is intercepted in the 8th house (dealing with life crisis, transformation, life and death issues) and it's ruler conjunct the 4th house cusp, together with your Sun on the other side of the cusp, but actually also placed in this 4th house. And then there is Mercury as well. Everything revolves around family issues and the crisis you have to face here. Pluto, ruler of Ascendant in Libra longs for peace and harmony, especially in the family (sextile ruler 4th). And what do you get? The opposite: an alcoholic father, a stepmother who takes your brother away and probably a whole lot more we dont know about. This is probably one of the most difficult times in your life, because that intercepted Cancer in the 8th wants to break out. Transiting Pluto conjunct your 2nd house will transform your valuesystem, selfworth being nr.1. Thank God Jupiter just escaped from "inprisonment" in Cancer and is making this grand trine with Mercury (a bit too wide an orb for me!) and Uranus. Selfworth can be transformed (trans. Pluto) through communication (Jupiter trine Uranus ruler 3rd) right now and after a lot of very difficult moments, transiting Jupiter will also enter your 2nd house and bring confidence in yourself.
Maybe you could go and talk to your stepmother and tell her that you understand why she left (clearly!) so she does not feel as if you are blame her for leaving. But let her know that taking your brother is quite hard on you and that you wish to see him regularly. Under the circumstances I think it is better that he stays with her than in the house with an alcoholic father and all the stress surrounding him. But you should be allowed to see your brother.
You will get through this, believe me, and like the others also indicated, you will grow in understanding, have dealt with some childhood issues because you are forced to right now, and feel much better for it lateron. Dont give up! Saturn at the MC shows you can do it, even when it is not easy but the sextile of Mercury, ruler of your 10th with Venus in the 2nd, as well as with Uranus, will help you out! I wish you lots of strength and hope you can arrange something in order to see your little brother soon. In the horary chart you are also the Moon, emotional, sensitive and Jupiter is freedom. Moon will get to Jupiter in about 6 monthtime I guess (succedent house, both Moon and Jupiter in mutable Signs). End of the matter is the 4th house and ruled by Venus, strong in Pisces and conjunct the North Node which is fortunate.
Good luck to you!

[lilllybelle]

but then the other night I dreamt of being led to a meadow, and there was a lion there, and i was told, this lion is on YOUR TEAM and is here for YOU, and i looked at the lion relaxing and he was so majestic and i could feel that he would protect me. I looked up the symbolic meaning of a lion and it said:

I seriouslly got goose bumps all over my arms when I read this! It's got to be a really really good sign.

[2rainbows]

what is the symbolic meaning of a lion in dreams???

[starlink]

Hi 2rainbows, I think it means strength. Also in the Tarot, the card "Strength" is symbolised by a Lion and a lady looking tenderly at the lion. I think it is your inner strength. What is important is what the Lion did to you or someone else. Also how you felt, scared or very strong. Hope this helps.

[unukalhai]

All this could possibly be due to your transiting Saturn in the 9th square to your natal Uranus in the 12th. I am having this same transit as you and have felt very stressed but I haven't had the upheavals which you have been having. It seems Saturn is testing you and you are feeling very fearful/anxious and afraid of all these drastic changes around you. Saturn restricts whatever it comes into contact with so you are feeling a suppressed sense of freedom and feeling very resistant to the change which is surrounding your life at this time. With the Saturn/Uranus transit this is a time when the most individualistic parts of your life are being tested. The more resistant to the changes you are the more difficult this transit can feel. This transit can indicate a parting of ways, and a strong feeling of being held back. Natally your Saturn is opposed the moon so testing times for the family and a very testing time for your soul and your sensitive emotions.


GAH!!! This transit *****!

You are exactly right on. I'm going through this transit too, and I can say it is one of the most difficult transits I have experienced in quite a while... Of course, Saturn and Uranus are two extremely important (and quite powerful) planets in my chart, so the natural intensity of it is amplified.

I nearly lost my sh*t on the second of three retrograde hits (about 2 weeks ago) and I'm still trying to recover from the stress; both psychological and physical! Saturn has a unique role; he is one of the triad (Sun/Moon/Saturn) of the conscious self AND also represents cardinal earth, the basis of physical things... So, Saturn can have a big impact on the physical and mental self. I suppose the fact that the exact hit was within 2 days of an exact Chiron/Chiron square didn't help any, but whatever the case, the stress generated was out of this world. It doesn't help that I have Mercury/Uranus conjunct, so it was hitting Mercury too.

The most important thing to remember is Saturn isn't that slow of a mover.. He might be the slowest visible planet, but compared with an outer planet transit, Saturn is a pretty quick experience. For me, the major pressure passed in 2-3 weeks, even though the source of the pressure remains, it's once again bearable.. Although I now realize I need to do something to remove the source of the pressure for good.. But that's in progress, and that alone helps alot!

My biggest whine about this transit is somewhat specific to my chart.. This, and the Chiron/Chiron square, lined up with one of three Neptune/Neptune sextiles, a positive transit which I had hoped to enjoy like the first hit of it, but it was completely eclipsed by the Saturn badness.

... And Saturn transits are usually good to me!

[unukalhai]

Yay... off work!

... The Lion is symbolic of the fire triad, and especially resonant with the Sun (Leo) -- It's important to remember Saturn is presently positioned in this sign, and the Saturn/Uranus square you are under probably has alot to do with the insanity your going through. I don't think this is a coincidence, and that's a word that I don't believe in anyways.

The Lion relaxing could have alot to do with Saturn's rock-like nature, Saturn's tendency to anchor like a monolith; Saturn is also steadfast much as the Lion you saw in your dream, and certainly can be counted on. Nothing embodies reliablity and dedication like Saturn does... And as much trouble as he can induce, his end game is always the fortification of the self and the building of sound structures that can withstand the toughest storms.

Certainly quite a moving dream, even to me.

You're probably quite sensitive to Saturn transits. Unless I've got your chart wrong, you've got Saturn conjunct his own angle, the MC, opposed the Sun/Moon midpoint and at the Jupiter/Pluto midpoint. Both of these midpoints are positive and really powerful. Also, 20-21Leo is not only the square to your Uranus, but the conjunction to your Jupiter/Saturn midpoint, an important midpoint that deals with having patience and being steadfast (Saturn) to reap benefits and rewards as well as expand the optimistic self (Jupiter) -- Hang in there! There is likely a reward to be had for your perserverance and the acceptance of the challenges that face you.

You, like myself (we're born not far apart), are also going through the Neptune/Neptune sextile, an important transit which does as Neptune feels neccessary to open us up to our own higher dimensions and our spiritual self, as well as encouraging us to find our part of compassion and unconditional love. For some of us, this involves dealing with a good bit of hardship, especially involving dealing with others trouble; the end game here is to help us evoke loving compassion for the troubles of others.

You scream in all caps that you deserve happyness. I think that is the basic message of this set of transits. But nothing is free with Saturn; he's a pay in advance kind of guy... Hardass, yes, but equally rewarding.

The basic message of the Saturn sq Uranus transit for me was simple: If I don't get off my *** and do something to better my own condition, if I don't make difficult change away from rigidity, if I allow myself to stay stuck in things that drag me down and don't promote my growth... If I fester away just so I feel secure and stay fearful of taking a risk.. that only I am to blame and will be help responsible for my inaction... It took extreme stress and difficulty for me to finally come to this realization. When I finally realized it, I was ready to walk away from my life completely and start over if neccessary, to the point of giving up everything if need be. But instead started constructing a more rational, less radical approach. Set limits for how much you will put up with. Stand up for those limits, even if it means potentially destroying something that provides an illusion of security. Break out your notepad and start writing down an escape plan. Define these limits to those around you. Get serious (Saturn) about change (Uranus) and you'll find much relief. And don't forget, sometimes you have to sacrifice comfort and stability for a time (Saturn) to get to bliss and freedom (Uranus). If you don't, Saturn will push you to the point that you'd rather be dead than deal with it any longer, and you will crack. The one suicide case that personally affected me was because of this; she had Saturn opposing Uranus and on the third hit she decided the only way out was death. What a selfish decision, she hurt alot of people by it. Based on my experience (2 of 3 hits of this transit) I can relate, although I know I'm stronger than that.

It sounds like you have taken this course of action. I applaud you, it's NOT easy. Stay strong, don't be afraid to come here and ramble on as much as you need. I was glad to read your post, it reminds me I'm not the only one who has gone through hell and back from a SA/UR stress transit. This one will test your limits of personal strength and push you to the edge.

For some reason, these lyrics seem to capture this transit...


I would tell you about the things
They put me through
The pain Ive been subjected to
But the lord himself would blush
The countless feasts laid at my feet
Forbidden fruits for me to eat
But I think your pulse would start to rush

Now Im not looking for absolution
Forgiveness for the things I do
But before you come to any conclusions
Try walking in my shoes
Try walking in my shoes

You'll stumble in my footsteps
Keep the same appointments I kept
If you try walking in my shoes
If you try walking in my shoes

Morality would frown upon
Decency look down upon
The scapegoat fates made of me
But I promise you, my judge and jurors
My intentions couldnt have been purer
My case is easy to see

Im not looking for a clearer conscience
Peace of mind after what Ive been through
And before we talk of repentance
Try walking in my shoes
Try walking in my shoes


I wouldn't be surprised if this song was written under a SA/UR stress transit.

[starlink]

Dear Milkygirl, You are not a stupid dummy at all. Lots of people can learn from what you have decided to do and how you plan to escape this situation. Very brave indeed!! And about taking those anti-depressants, dont ever think you are weak when you do. Is someone weak just because he or she takes a migrane pill in order to be able to go to work? NO. It show that you want to go on and it most certainly shows that you are NOT weak. My daughter is on anti-depressants and said the same thing to me the other day, that she felt so weak because she could at the moment only function (with high stress work and relationship problems) when she would take the anti depressant. So what!! You probably wont have to take them your whole life, just during these sort of times. Dont think twice about taking them! Good luck to you and come rambling any time you feel the need to. We are here for you.

[unukalhai]

unu, thanks for your insights. i identify with all you wrote. i feel like all my security has been taken from me and i am just alone and floating... i just try to think of the lion and remember that i will get through it and things will be good.


I hear that. I just keep trying to remember that security, as us humans know it, is a sort of illusion. Faith in whatever interpretation of a higher power you believe in is the only real security, which in all essence is the unconditional acceptance of your own path and your unconditional belief that all will work out right in the end, no matter how long and how trying the road is. And you are welcome :) Thanks for posting your experiences, I needed to hear from someone else going through these transits, because I'm as far at the end of my rope as you may be...


i am formulating a plan to get away from my family which started with seeing my doctor and getting back on antidepressants, and getting her to find a psychotherapist for me to talk to. i cried this morning before i took the first pill, i know it sounds so silly right! but its like, i have to take pills to just feel ok! i know that shouldn't make you feel bad about yourself but it makes me feel so powerless and weak, i am trying to not look at it that way because i know its not true. if anything i should feel strong because i am looking out for myself and trying to get out of this.


Self-empowerment is extremely important. Do what is right for you, discard all the silly illusions of powerlessness and such, and realize it does take guts to really reach out for help. Many people are too into their own pride and ego (misdirected Sun) to do such a thing, I admit that is one of my failings, and no doubt my solar placement is quite afflicted.

Sometimes we just have to distance ourselves from our family. I did this early in life, as my family just didn't seem to be a positive influence, although it was a big part of my Chiron placement in the 4th house, and I actually made a daring leap towards independence at an unusually young age when my IC solar arc'ed to my Chiron. Looking back, it was probably the biggest risk I ever took, maybe the biggest I ever will. But it also had the biggest benefit. It literally reshaped my entire destiny, changed the very core of me. I think every experience (to now and beyond) would have unfolded different had I let fear reign at that time. I literally wouldn't be the person I am today, and I'm glad I am who I am, my imperfections and all. For some of us, our family just doesn't provide the solid base and unconditional love we need but rather causes us grief and doubt. It doesn't have to be forever, it's said time is the best healer, and situations, circumstances, and most importantly, people, change with time.

Antidepressants simply affect one's chemical balance, most work by altering the serotonin/dopamine balance. Serotonin is an inhibitory neurotransmitter, meaning that it actually works by shutting things down and is found in very small quantities in the brain. Dopamine, on the other hand, is an activating neurotransmitter, that is actually the most plentiful neurotransmitter, something like 80% of the neurochemical activity in the brain is centered around dopamine if I recall correctly. The proper balance is essential to proper mental functioning.

In time, you will no longer need it, assuming you are making a conscious effort to adjust how you think and pull yourself out of recursive negative patterns... and you are! They can be a wonderful tool to help break negative patterns that otherwise grip the mind in a state of constant depression. You are not weak. You are only weak if you say "I don't have to worry about helping myself; this pill does it for me!" -- and a lot of people get rooked into that mindset. A horrible Neptunian illusion. Use it as a tool, a way to help break free of the chains, not as an excuse to give up on your own well being :) When you start to feel more in control, which I have faith will certainly happen, consider switching to more natural methods, like Griffonia seed extract. Make sure you maintain an honest and open relationship with whatever form of counselor you have, and use it to the fullest extent. It can be a most rewarding experience! I think we are both entering a period of finality before our Saturn return, a period of time which will determine if Saturn breaks out his whip or reward bag when he comes home in our chart. It's not long from now, really.


i am afraid of the unknown and moving so far away from my family and everything i've ever known, but i am more afraid of staying here and this continuing to happen to me. i cant deal with these emotions over and over and the feeling of helplessness. if i move away and end up destitute, at least i tried to do something for myself. i dont think that will happen though.


Right there with you. Although my current situation brings stress through money and my profession (Saturn through the 8th), rather than family, the feeling is no different. If my actions to free myself land me on the street corner asking for spare change, then so be it. Even then I'll find a way to pull myself out of it and start over again. For all I know, another Plutonian remaking might be just what the doctor ordered.. The last one wasn't so bad anyways! but only time will reveal. We've got to do what it takes to make our lives livable, to throw off the chains and rise above subjecting ourselves to situations we don't want and those that hold us back. I suppose I will be paying for whatever I do around now when Saturn comes into square with my Sun later this year, which I imagine will be much like the opposition just under 7 years ago; not easy times.


sorry for rambling, just writing this out and knowing that someone somewhere reads this makes me feel a lot better. even if they read it and think i'm a stupid dummy, it still feels better than being alone with all these things in my head!!!


And as such I reply. You're not alone.

Here's some wise (and strong) words from Steven Forrest that will probably touch you at a time like this... Certainly hit me like a bag of bricks.


Picture a young woman. A dreamer. She has a Masters degree in English, but not much use for it. For the past five years she has been waiting on tables. Waiting for anything. Her ambition is to be a writer, but so far that has been sheer fantasy. She has written nothing.

One day that changes. She is getting older, a little scared. She realizes that it is now or never. She begins a novel. The book reflects her nature. It is dreamy, romantic. A gothic. Passion on the Moors. And lightning strikes. She sells the manuscript and four copies sit in the paperback section of every grocery store in America.

Thirty years elapse. Thirty years and fifteen more versions of Passion on the Moors, each with a different title. She is affluent and famous. You see her face in People magazine. The years have changed her. No longer the spacy little ingenue, she is now a mature woman with vision and confidence. But her books do not reflect that. And she knows it.

She has an inspiration for a new novel, a very different one. Deeper. More serious. A work she could be proud of. Her publisher is appalled, but she persists. Halfway into writing it, she goes to the doctor. Cancer. Three months left to live. The book will take twice that long to finish. Impossible. She cries. She writes her will. She plans her world cruise. A week goes by. She has a long talk with herself, shrugs, and sits back down at her typewriter. She has lived as an author. She will die as an author. Her masterpiece will never be completed. Who cares? That was not the point anyway. The point was the process.

In that moment, the woman passed the fiercest of all the planetary tests. She became a master of Saturn.

Saturn—the old astrologers sometimes called it Satan. The Greater Malefic. Even now, the ringed planet is often viewed as the cosmic Frankenstein. It is associated with depression and melancholia, with defeat, with loneliness and frustration. All that is true. It is an accurate description of the way Saturn manifests if we displease him. But that is not his purpose. No planet is there just to hurt us.

Saturn teaches one virtue above all others: self-discipline. That is the key to understanding the symbol. Like Mars, the other so-called malefic, Saturn seeks to focus the will. To teach us that most elusive of arts: how to do exactly what we please. How to make our intentions dominant over our fears, our laziness, our emotions. Jupiter is the planet of faith. But in a sense it is Saturn that truly deserves that title. Jupiter gives us the feeling of faith, but often by supporting us with a thousand crutches. “Sure, I’ve got faith. Life is great. Look at my bank book, my sexy mate, my brand new Mercedes ...”

Saturn’s approach to faith is not like that. He takes away the crutches. He shows us darkness, impossibility, certain defeat. Then he asks: “Do you still have faith?” Again, this faith has nothing to do with religion. It is faith in life, in oneself, in our dreams and visions, in our ideals. It is faith in the idea that we have a destiny. And only if those visions can stand alone, unassisted, in the face of absolute impossibility, can we say that we truly have faith. Until then We are still riding with training wheels. The woman in our story knew she was a writer. That was her destiny. To flee from that would have been a flight from her own deeper self. No way she could finish her book, but that made no difference. The act of writing was what counted. Not success or failure.

[unukalhai]

*hugs* We're all one... No matter what distance separates us.. We're all humans, facing human challenges as we live out the human experience. We will survive, and we will prosper, even in our troubles.

This forum is full of beautiful souls, if only this forum was an average cross-section of humanity, the world would likely be a nicer place!

Music can be great medicine. Under depressive states, it's amazing what a good sad song can do for the soul. Sing along. It's fun, and strangely uplifting. Something about hearing your own state of melancholy sung, all the minor chords, the lyrics of situations more depressing than your own... Sounds evilly sadistic, but when your down, it's wonderful. I can't count how many times a sad song has cheered me up when I've been in the dumps... But maybe I'm just weird like that! ;)