your input on this synastry is appreciated

[milkywaygirl]

..........

[wilsontc]

Milkyway,

In doing relationship charts, the first step is to understand how each person approaches relationships. This can be seen by looking at Libra, Venus, and the 7th house (all are about relationships) in each chart. In your chart, you have Libra modifying Pluto (transformation, also power, sex) square (energy needs to be combined with) Venus, indicating that you have a need to have power in a relationship and may use sex to get it. You have no focus in the 7th house, so you are not focused on getting in relationships for the sake of a relationship.

The next thing to look at is the relationship chart (your chart is in the middle and his is on the outside). The first thing to look for in relationship charts is any connections between the Sun and Moon by themselves. As you mentioned, there are many and they are all easy connections. The next thing to look for are the aspects made between Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, and Mars (also called "personal" planets). Most of these connections are also easy. However, it is the Uranus (friends, also rebellion) square Venus that most likely led to the "instant attraction" between you two. The challenge about all easy aspects is that there is nothing to work on between the couples: they could get together or then could decide not to...for there is nothing to overcome. If a person or a couple has too many "easy" connections between them, then the motivation to "do anything" in the relationship may not be there.

The indications are that you and he had an impulsive "sleep over" ;) , each enjoyed it but he is not that interested in pursuing it. Beware your urge to push yourself into relationships (Pluto square Venus): if he indicates that this is "not the right time", take him at his word and ask when the "right time" would be. If he continues to evade the question, move on...there are LOTS of other guys out there, many of whom will actually be INTERESTED in you! ;)

Relating,

Tim

[Summery Joy]

i wish that he and i could just speak honestly to one another about our feelings

I know how generalized this sounds, but with his Sun and Mercury in Scorpio, I doubt that this will happen. The Moon in Cancer is not helping either. And he's right. The Scoprio energy will have him focus on one big issue you at a time. At the moment, this is his business. Also, Scoprios get frightened when someone has the potential to dig through them and expose their volunerability. Just because you slept together very early in your relationship, that doesn't mean he's falling in love.. Scoprios do that you know.

I'm sorry I'm being so general and using the Scoprio archetype in my analysis, but I don't know his his house placements and I can't make sense of his aspects without them.

Also, Milky, you have both the Sun and the Moon in Pisces. I'm sorry to say this but you may have a tendency to dream on and base your feelings on non-existant facts. Pisces also feels symapthy for people in need or in trouble (like people with failing businesses perhaps) and a lot of the pisces natals that I know have a tendency to save others by falling in love with them. I haven't studied your chart in full, so I'm not sure if you are this way or not, but be careful anyway and don't live in denial. Most of your planets, asteroids and points fall in water signs. Try to stay connected to the little Earth energy in your chart. Follow your North Node in Virgo. It should help and it will eventually give you your Pisces South Node needs.

Aside from astrology, I've been there myself to here's a personal piece of advice; if you decide not to do business with the guy and you see there's no hope for a romantic relastionship right now, then there's no point in "hoping to talk and be honest". It's a done deal. You're better off cutting him out of your life alltogether, at least until you finally wake up one day and not think about him the first or second thing in the morning.

Best of luck.

[Summery Joy]

Alright. A little bit on the nodes. Here we go:


What are the Nodes of the Moon?

The Moon’s orbit around the Earth crosses the Ecliptic in two places. These two places are called the Moon’s Nodes. The North Node is the place near the northern hemisphere and the South Node is the one near the southern hemisphere.

How do the Nodes move?

The nodes of the Moon almost always travel "backwards" or "retrograde". That is, unlike most planets and points, they move from Pisces to Aquarius to Capricorn.. etc. Of course the nodes of the Moon are always completely and perfectly opposite one another. So, when the North Node is in Pisces, the South node is in Virgo. When the North Node moves to Aquarius, the South Node moves to Leo, and so on.

What do the nodes mean in a natal chart?

You'll find a lot of texts referring to the "karmic" effects of the nodes and how they affect the natal in the current incarnation. I am one astrology student who does not believe in incarnation and past lives, but I do agree with these texts about the effects of the nodes in terms of lessons to be learned in life.

See, the South Node (by sign and house placement) represents habits and patterns that we are comfortable with, usually tendencies that we grow up with and bring from our childhood (and from past lives according to texts by authors who believe in incarntaion). Yes, these patterns make us feel comfortable where we are, but we get stuck in a rutt just following the South Node and never get what we want from it.

This is when the role of the North Node comes into action. Being opposite to the place where we feel comfortable, the North Node is quite hard to follow. It's difficult and we instinctively want to run away from it. But the fact of the matter is, the North Node is here to teach us a few lessons in life. If we don't learn from these lessons and apply them, we will never fully satisfy our South Node needs.

What does your Virgo North Node mean?

You have the North Node in Virgo and the South Node in Pisces. Your instinctive tendencies is to dream, be in denial, be extra senstive, be self-undoing, and all the Pisces attributes you can think of. This is empowered by your Sun and Moon in Pisces making your South Node an extra comfy place.

So, is it so bad to dream and be senstive and do for others more than we expect for ourselves? No, but in your case, you will not get the fruits of the Pisces South Node except through Virgo ways. Virgo is down to Earth, not spacey. Virgo is analytical, not emtional. Virgo is practical, not dreamy. Virgo helps others too, afterall it is the sign of service. But Virgo doesn't do it like fool and let itself be abused, something that Pisces does more often than not. Also, Pisces is too unlimited in its thoughts and ways. Virgo is structured and organized. Pisces accepts imprefections and maybe even think they are beautiful and make people unique. Virgo will not settle for less than perfect.

So what's the lesson of life for you? It's that you need to work hard, give your life structure and purpose, quit dreaming and start analyzing and performing. Only then will your dreams come true and you will be able to have a life where you can enjoy genuine emotions from someone who really cares and is not just there to use you.

The motto for Virgo North Node / Pisces South Node natals should be something like God helps those who help themselves.

By the way, I know how difficult it sounds. I have the same node placement and I am still struggling. But the baby steps I've taken so far have proved very fruitful.

Hope I've been helpful.

[Summery Joy]

Yeah, the Sun and the Moon are strengthening the Sourth Node tendencies and making it hard for Saturn to help the North Node. Saturn is also a difficult negery to relate to to especially with a chart like yours. Luckily, Saturn is strong being in the house it rules and the signs of exaltation. But keep in mind that the Moon is also strong being in the house that it rules.

Norrth Node in 10th and South Node in 4th can be interpreteted in many ways and on many levels. A bried way to put is that you need to work on career, structure, organization and maybe public image in order to get what you need from home, family, emotions, etc.

[Summery Joy]

it seems that he is what i need to be, and i am what he needs to be in terms of our true nodes.

A better way to put it is to say that you know what he needs to learn and he knows what you need to learn. You don't need to "be" him and he doesn't have to "be" you. Rather, each one of you has something to teach the other.

No wonder your dad is so in touch with his South Node. He has a stellium of personal planets in a sign of the same element. One of many lessons he needs to learn is that it's not weak to have feelings and emotions (as opposed to your lesson that such feelings and emotions are not everything and are not enough).


i'm assuming that the relationship between the individual challenges that a parent and child face and how they can learn from each other is something that must come up often in astrology?

Of course. Synastry and the rest of the relastionship astrology techniques can be applied to any type of relastionships. Unfortunately, I don't see a time and location of birth for your father. That means that we don't have a complete picture of his natal chart. All we can do is study his sign placements and how they fall into your houses and the aspects they make to your planets.

Try it on your own first. Pay extra (but not all) attention to the your 4th and 10th houses and how your father's planets fall into them, then come back here and tell me what you've found.

[Summery Joy]

Its just very confusing for me; he treats me so nicely and acts as if he really likes me, but never calls or asks to spend time with me.

Well that's Scorpio for ya.

Milky, he may have a soft spot for you, but that doesn't change anything. And, if you don't mind my saying so, it's going to be very difficult for you to get over him when you're around him that often. You need a complete cut... or a rebound guy!

[Howl]

Hi Milkyway,

I was just browsing and found this old thread of yours. It's amazing how **** FAMILIAR the story of you and this man sounds. I have been through a very similar, strong, confusing, powerful and unrewarding connection with someone, and began to wonder what was wrong with me, why I couldn't 'tell' what was going on, why all the signs and reactions and wires were crossed.

Most of all, I still wonder why it took me so long to leave it alone. I still dream of him occassionally.

Unfortunately, I don't know his time of birth, so no accurate data on natal charts to compare with mine. However, I do know that he has moon in Scorpio :D Oddly enough, he was born on the same day of the year as my mother, 43 years later. I am convinced that if I got accurate natal data, I would see some serious connections going on with nodes, neptune, pluto, venus, something!!

Actually, he is coming to visit my part of the world in the next few weeks. I 'love' him - we had a kind connection in the sense we were close and trusted eachother, but I put 'love' in inverted commas because even tho I would and did give so much to be close to him, its more of a compulsion than a natural flow, and I suspect it has something to do with what I want "from" him, rather than a purer form :)

I actually wish he wasn't coming, not least because he's coming with his girlfriend, who I couldn't hate if I tried. We have mutual friends, and I will be seeing him.

Since this guy I haven't felt strongly attracted to anyone else, it's like he kindof burnt something out. I feel a lot more balanced now, but the effect is still there! I don't want to see him!!!

Here are some of the things you said that I thought only I had ever suffered so intensely from :D

i feel inexplicably drawn to him
my relationship has continued but not really progressed in any way
he seems happy to see me, but we act shy and strange around the other
i cant help but think about this person all the time still
i wish that he and i could just speak honestly about our feelings
apart from the happiness i feel when i am near him, the rest of the time i dont really have positive feelings about the whole thing (unless of course i'm daydreaming)
have resigned myself to just being his "friend"
when he tries to hug and pinch and touch me i recoil, not because i dont want it, but because i want it so much….

Whoah yes!! By the way, I have neptune conjunct my sun and a cancer ascendant (and north node), which may partially explain why it seems I, like you, are susceptible to some self defeating misconceptions when it comes to relationships :(

[Howl]

Yes yes, I certainly didn't want to HAVE to move on!! But eventually, after repeated burning, I got the message. Besides, its no fun when you realise all the intensity you're holding onto to so tight, because intensity is better than the void that follows it, is largely a colourful blend of fantasy and unconsciousness that is as much yours as theirs. Basically, I consciously decided to move on ages ago because I want something HEALTHY and REWARDING!! But that unconscious gut reaction takes a long time to move along with me

You're right though, there is so much to be learned from such a strong reaction. One thing I took from it is this: I had/have such a strong urge to 'mother' him....unconditional acceptance, warmth, touch. I thought of him as overy "sensitive", and more emotional and "irrational" than me. It doesn't take much to look at this and realise that it was acutally I who am/was sensitive, emotional and "irrational"!!! This man seems to have (re)introduced me very powerfully to the feminine principle.

I laugh at it, and deeply value the realisation that a lot of what I was attracted to actually belongs to me. It needs personal expression rather than projection onto somebody else.

Even though it's lost its edge, I still want him out of my city, and especially out of my dreams!! I'm sure one day we can have a "normal" way of relating...and when we do it will probably signify that we've both sorted some internal things out.

[Miss Saturn]

Hi,

These stories remind me so much of the relationships i have had in the past, paticularly the one i had over a year and a half ago, i met someone through work and to be honest i wasn't that interested in him at first although he was very good looking i i thought we were too different for anything to happen. I'm very quiet and he was very outgoing and sure of himself, not really the type i would go for.

Anyway he persistantly pursued me and i was very flattered by his attention he was very charming intelligent and i gradually came round to him and agreed to go out for a night with him. On the night out he said he had something to tell me about his past, right there and then i knew he was too good to be true, he told me he had been in prison and he had only got out a few months ago, he asked me if i was o.k with this and if i was still going to pursue this relationship with him. At the time i said i was fine but deep down i was uncomfortable with it.

Further times when we met more and more about his past came out, how he would beat people up and rob them, all this did'nt feel right with me i am a very sensitive person and it left me with a sickly feeling. I was still strongly attracted to him but very unsure about the whole thing.

He asked if i would meet him at the weekend but i had other plans and couldn't make it, well when i saw him in work the following monday he completely avoided me i tried to speak to him but i wouldn't get much conversation out of him, then he was flirting with other girls in front of me. I felt i was just completly embarrsassing myself by even trying to chase him, i would go home and cry my eyes out feeling so used i realized he was just trying to control me.

One morning i woke up and thought i have had enough of being treated like this and why the hell was i chasing him for i didn't even like the person he was inside, i didn't deserve this treatment, so i went to work and as far as i was concerned he didn't exist. Well now i wasn't chasing him he pursued me again, i wouldn't really talk to him, i didn't need him in my life.

Well he left the company and i had met someone else who i was falling madly in love with who treats me like princess.This other man tried phoning me and would hang up and he would pull up outside my house and would knock on my door. There was no way i was getting involved with him again.

I am very happy now although at the time i felt like my whole world had caved in. I found the inner strength to say no more i don't want relationships like this anymore i want something more.

Astrologically i have venus square pluto so these are the relationships i am attracted to, intense, messy, tortuous, full of drama.I know that deep inside because i felt unloveable i would stay in this sort of relationship. This aspect is in my chart and i believe he came into my life to teach me to stand up for who i am inside, he had to bring out these feelings in me,these deep intense extremely painful feelings to help me recognise an aspect in myself, he was just my mirror.

In relationships i try to rescue people save them,i would think of them before myself but in truth i was the one drowning hiding all my problems and just focusing on thiers to avoid my own hurt feelings.

Everyday i try to deal with certain aspects of my personality, try to transform myself, it's hard to look at myself and see what i do to myself find where these feelings came from and then deal with them painful as it is there has to be light at the end.

[Howl]

Wow, that's intense! I do relate, especially to this bit: "i try to rescue people save them,i would think of them before myself but in truth i was the one drowning hiding all my problems and just focusing on thiers to avoid my own hurt feelings"

And yes, the "mirror" effect.

I too have pluto square venus.

Although this 'relationship' never left me with the sickly feeling, and I (still :))think the guy involved caused no harm on purpose, other than being damned obtuse and soemwhat confused himself....I was certainly left feeling very alone and foolish for having pursued something that hurt. He also flattered me when we met, and revealed a lot about himself.

Perhaps venus square pluto does describe some propensity for intense attractions ;) My venus is in the seventh, where's yours?

[Miss Saturn]

I have my venus in my 5th house, and yes this is an extremely intense aspect. If i had never got into astrology i would never have known about these powerful feelings i would never had known that it was my deep and needy feelings and feelings of being unloved that i was projecting onto other people.

It's strange i can be in a setteled relationship and i find myself stirring up trouble, making a drama out of something.If i feel rejected,i myself can be quite the charmer to get back the persons affection.

My last couple of relationships it was all them being hurtful, jealous, abusive.With my partner now i find i am the one who gets jealous and angry at times and i think everything i used to hate about those people i am. If it is not being projected onto my partners then i actually own these traits within myself.

I am a lot more careful about how i react now and i will try to think it through before i act on something and make sure it's not me feeling insecure.If i keep on dealing with my inner feelings hopefully i can have a good healthy strong relationship. I will learn to let go and if that person truly loves me for who i am they will still be around.

[Howl]

Hey again Miss Saturn :)

Here is something Manuu wrote to me, I suspect in reference to the pluto venus aspect (Manuu I hope you don't mind me quoting you:)):

You can overwhelm with charm and intensity and it is very difficult to reject you, but if ever you are rejected, you will be shocked, it is something you find difficult to digest. Your deep feeling of unloveableness can hurtle u into into messy annd painful relationships. You may love some one who is unavailable, may get into love triangles, or demand the pressence of the other person, without thinking how it would be to be with that person on a full-time basis.

Hey, at least I know that I'm all but impossible to reject!! :D :D

I still don't click particularly with a "deep feeling of unloveableness", althout the rest of it certainly fits. Perhaps other factors in my chart balance the sense of "unlovable". I have been accused of being deadly charming by a very good friend of mine, who watches me closely :D although it is not at all conscious. And **** true; rejection ain't for me!! ;)

My earliest relationship was also with a very possessive, demanding guy, and yes I did feel possessive (which is very unusual for me!!) in this last one which I was describing. I see you're interested in the 'projection' theory too. Perhaps venus/pluto squarees like you and I tend to "swing" between either projecting pluto, or projecting venus. A powerful combination indeed....

[Miss Saturn]

Hi Howl,

Yes all that is very true for me, and the part about loving someone who's unavailable i think in my current relationship that may be true.
We both love eachother very much and we have been together for 1 and half years and we have a child together.For most of the time we have spent nearly everyday together. We have been very happy apart from the money situation.

Now he has got a new job and does a lot of hours a week, i hardly see him anymore. He is doing really well in his job and he's wanting a management position in the company, so he is putting all the hours he can in. But i feel a little rejected over it. Even though he says he is doing it for the family, so we can have a better life and he can provide for us.

I try to be supportive and stay positive, but then i worry about the long term effect on the relationship.I don't want to be in a relationship where i get overly jealous and he can't have his freedom, i had that in a relationship and i felt like i couldn't breathe.But i think what about my needs, then i think i am being selfish and maybe it's because i am not getting the attention i used to and i am just thinking about myself.If i say anything i feel guilty like i am trying to hold him back, and i will probably drive him away.

In his chart he has venus conjunct pluto so within relationships i guess were working on the same thing. He has aquarius on his 7th, he likes his freedom.
I was looking at were his nodes were placed the other day and he has his north node in capricorn in the 6th house of work. I don't want to hold him back, if he is working on making a career for himself in this lifetime i don't want to stand in his way but then i think he has his south node in cancer in the 12th house, which may mean he has to balance his home and work life.

There are all these issues and it's all relating to the venus pluto aspect. You were right about everything you said, if i look on the positive side i guess were people who need really loving intense relationships who are wanting to transform our relationships into deep meaningful ones.

Also Howl when your in a relationship do find yourself questioning every part of it, instead of just enjoying yourself, i wish i could take relationships more light heartedly.

I also do a lot of the projecting in my relationships and yes i can either be the venus or the pluto. I haven't always been an angel.

[Miss Saturn]

Also i think the dynamics of the relationship has changed i was always the one paying for things, and now my partner has the money and i don't have the control. I have always had the power in this relationship, and i have always known it, and was quite comfortable with it this way.

My partner said to me once i could be really nasty to him and he would still love me and want to be with me for the rest of his life.Believe me i am not a nasty person and would never treat him that way. I have my moments but i cherish our relationship and have nothing but love for this man. I felt like he was saying it is alright to treat him this way because deep inside he was expecting it, i think this was his venus pluto acting its self out.

We both have venus pluto like attract like.