PDA

View Full Version : Significance of Critical Degrees in a Chart

student4life
12-27-2011, 05:54 PM
I have read a couple posts speaking about critical degrees. I have noticed that my chart has many critical degrees. What I am having a hard time finding is what the significance of such degrees in the chart means. Also, some people say with in an orb of 1 degree and others say with in an orb of 3 degrees, does that mean 3 degrees before or 3 degrees after?

Critical Degrees
Cardinal :aries::cancer::libra::capricorn: 0,13,26
Fixed :taurus::leo::scorpio::aquarius: 9,21
Mutable :gemini::virgo::sagittarius::pisces: 4,17

My critical degrees are as follows:
00 :capricorn: ASC
00 :cancer: DSC
13 :cancer: :northnode:
13 :capricorn: :southnode:
13 :libra::mars:
04 :sagittarius: :moon:

Questionable critical degrees (within 3 degrees)?:
00 :scorpio::jupiter:
01 :sagittarius::uranus:
19 :gemini::mercury:
10 :cancer::sun:
15 :libra::saturn:
24 :libra::pluto:
24 :taurus::parsfortunae:
14 :aries: cusp of 4th house
07 :gemini: cusp of 6th house
14 :libra: MC
07 :sagittarius: cusp of 12th house

Any help with understanding this more clearly would be much appreciated!

Claire19
12-27-2011, 11:53 PM
Again we need a visual chart. Reading lines of data is tedious.

I dont agree with the theory of critical degrees....The aspects made by each planet to each other stand on their own merits. Okay it is very close to the next sign and in the third decan but that is all...

student4life
12-27-2011, 11:57 PM
I did post the chart. I am just trying to understand the significance, if any. :) Thanks

dr. farr
12-28-2011, 04:55 AM
The 3 degrees mentioned is both before and after the degree; however, I myself consider this too wide, and consider about 2 degrees maximum; if you are going to consider critical degrees in delineation, then you should also consider other degree qualities such as the pitted/elevated degree and the Bright and dark degree qualities as well (these other considerations are found in older Traditionalist and Hellenistic astrology sources*)
Regarding the critical degrees, I follow Manly P. Hall in regarding them as conferring constructive ("benefic") influences as the general rule. Planets in them (in my opinion moreso than cuspal degrees) are generally enhanced and whatever the planet's constructive influences might be, are elevated, by such placement.

(*Many of our Modernist friends discount the degree qualities-including the critical degrees-either mostly or entirely, and generally consider them of minor consequence; many have similar attitudes toward the Lunar Nodes, toward the Arabic Parts, and many even toward the Part of Fortune; although as an eclectic I follow many Modernist concepts and methods, I follow the Traditionalists and Hellenists in attributing much significance to conepts like the critical degrees and other degree qualities, the Lots, and other oldtime practices and procedures)

JerryRR
12-28-2011, 11:34 AM
May I suggest you explore the lunar calendar and Lunar Mansions.
The Hypsomata you may find interesting too.

J.R.R.

dv.harsh
01-06-2012, 11:15 AM
I have saturn at 29.1 degrees in scorpio in 2nd house from ascendant(libra)....
What does it signify...i read about saturn 29 degrees in capricon makes one workaholic ...what about 29.1 degrees saturn in scorpio???

I also have jupiter 26 degrees in pieces
ASCENDANT(libra) :- 13 degrees
SUN in SCORPIO :- 23 degrees
(ALL CRITCAL DEGREES IN ONE HOROSCOPE )

For Reference :-
DOB :- 10-12-1987
Time :- 04.05 am
Place :- mumbai (india)
Lat :- 18 N 58
long :- 72 E 49

student4life
01-13-2012, 05:33 PM
Sorry it took me so long to respond. I have been away for a couple of weeks and I am just now catching up.
So a 2 degree orb to either side would be relevant? I have a book called "fixed stars and Degrees of the Zodiac analyzed" By E.C. Matthews that gives a brief description for each degree but does not really give the history or significance of it. As a student of astrology I find it difficult sometimes trying to filter out what matters and what does not, throw out the garbage so to speak. So I try to move slowly through different areas and aspects of astrology. Trying, testing, and questioning the value and importance of the different facets.
You stated that the planets more-so than the cusps will feel the effect, so does that include the nodes? I love Manly P. Hall, I have one book in particular of his that I have been working on for years ( I know the sounds ridiculous, but I am really digesting the information that way.)

Vista
01-13-2012, 06:29 PM
I have read a couple posts speaking about critical degrees. I have noticed that my chart has many critical degrees. What I am having a hard time finding is what the significance of such degrees in the chart means. Also, some people say with in an orb of 1 degree and others say with in an orb of 3 degrees, does that mean 3 degrees before or 3 degrees after?

Critical Degrees
Cardinal :aries::cancer::libra::capricorn: 0,13,26
Fixed :taurus::leo::scorpio::aquarius: 9,21
Mutable :gemini::virgo::sagittarius::pisces: 4,17

My critical degrees are as follows:
00 :capricorn: ASC
00 :cancer: DSC
13 :cancer: :northnode:
13 :capricorn: :southnode:
13 :libra::mars:
04 :sagittarius: :moon:

Questionable critical degrees (within 3 degrees)?:
00 :scorpio::jupiter:
01 :sagittarius::uranus:
19 :gemini::mercury:
10 :cancer::sun:
15 :libra::saturn:
24 :libra::pluto:
24 :taurus::parsfortunae:
14 :aries: cusp of 4th house
07 :gemini: cusp of 6th house
14 :libra: MC
07 :sagittarius: cusp of 12th house

Any help with understanding this more clearly would be much appreciated!

Usually 29 and 0 degrees will have influence of the previous sign with 29 and the next sign with 0. Your ASC is 0 degrees, a couple minutes difference and you could potentially be Sag rising.

tikana
01-13-2012, 07:10 PM
here is some stuff on critical degrees

if your natal planet is in critical degree, it means that the influence and energy from that planet will be both possitive and negative. it is very brightly expressed. critical degree is like having a sharper knife.

Your mars is interesting because it is in Libra and it is via combusta and it is in critical degree and it is squaring your north node, i think.. check what else is mars being aspected or aspecting. It has more martian energy than venetian even though it is in libra. Depending on what other planets are connecting with your mars it is hard to tell what it is doing. you do not want saturn, jupiter or pluto or uranus hard aspecting any of critically placed planets because the aggruvation from them to the planet maybe a bit too much esp when something is placed or being aspected in or from angular house especially 10th!

00 and 29 deg behave a bit different i wish astrologers would cover this in more details

at 00 the planet is the strongest or the weakest check with table of dignities. Modern planets have table of dignities but it is not really tested and i would not even touch that subject, traditional planets up to saturn.
Let say .. venus in libra 0 deg - the strongest .. why because she just entered from her fall in virgo it is like breath of fresh air.
Mars in 0 libra is disaster - it is the weakest .. not only mars was peregrine (no dignities of its own in virgo) but now it is all the way on the bottom it is like dragging a kid to school 1st day the one that doesnt wanna go there but has to.

i do get 9 deg critical degree in fixed signs i havent really thought about why the others are placed so oddly.. but here is the explanation.
from 0 to 9.59 deg of decanate of any sign is considered to be the strongest of them all. then it is followed clockwise to the next sign in its element. So when a planet reaches 9 deg it reaches its ripe point then the decline starts.

29 deg is very different

lets take venus again as example

Venus in 29 deg libra - she was all happy upto 15 libra then eehhh entered via combusta got cheery for a coupel of days when aspected Spica royal star 24 libra then went down the hill and reached 29 libra . that si when she enters Scorpio, her opposite. it is like walking on hot coals. she doesnt perform well at all.
quite the opposite is told about other planets like Jupiter
Jupiter in scorpio is peregrine - no power .. it goes through from 0 to 15 thinking do i have do this? *that is when via combusta ends at 15 scorpio* then it goes in preperation mode to enter its own rulership/domain. it reaches to 29 deg scorpio and gets all lit up .. I AM COMING HOME!

I have been looking for someone who has 29 deg taurus Venus placement because there is a vicious fixed star called Pleades is sitting there at that deg. i would loveto hear how venus is expressed at that particular degree.

so you really need to look and see what is a planet leaving and entering. Does it leave power or gain power as it enters ... there is a royal star at 0 deg i forgot which one look it up if you have a minute.. it is a good luck of a planet is in that spot to be ill placed .. royal star conjunction only helps with the softer landing.

Does this help at all?
T

dr. farr
01-14-2012, 02:20 AM
Tikana makes several very important points in the above highly informative posting. In addition to the considerations she has mentioned, I would also look at whether the degree is pitted or elevated, and also the Light quality of the degree (Bright/luminous, mixed/void, dark) These additional considerations should be blended into the mix to make a final determination of the degree's net influence upon the planet (or Lot) posited therein.

student4life
01-14-2012, 08:26 PM
Tikana,

First off I would like to thank you for all of your help with this question.
Upon research of critical degrees I found that they are spaced apart by 12 degrees 51 seconds, thus giving the odd spacing you were wondering about.
I am going through all of the information you have provided here and I am seeing in what ways I would apply it to my chart. Thank you once again.

S4L

student4life
01-14-2012, 08:31 PM
Dr. Farr,

I am looking into the (Pitted/Elevated) and (Bright/Luminous, Mixed/Void, Dark) influences right now. As always thanks for your help. It is comforting to know that there are people willing to facilitate others learning.

S4L

student4life
01-14-2012, 08:40 PM
JerryRR,

Thank you for the suggestions. I did look them up and found some interesting reads.

S4L

Ion
01-14-2012, 08:51 PM
an 'orb' is either side . . . . so an orb of 1 degree means 1 degree both 'applying' and 'separating' .
The best way (opinion) for you to 'see' how these 'critical degrees' are operating in your chart is for you to observe 'transits' related to the critical degrees . . . . (that's the 'science part' of astrology) . . . .after a while it will become clear what these 'sensitive places' in your chart are revealing .
Best Regards ,
Ion

Munch
01-14-2012, 09:31 PM
I didn't see this linked up above so here is an interesting article.

I have never really looked at critical degrees until I saw this thread. Now, of course I am interested since my already heavily beset sun is sitting smack dab on the critical degree of 13 degrees Capricorn.

The square from Saturn/Jupiter and to the asc just isn't enough of a PIA, nor is the square to the Saturn/Pluto midpoint. Bah! :whistling: :innocent:

http://www.dearbrutus.com/critical_degrees.html

tikana
01-15-2012, 02:38 AM
HI

you are quite welcome

I did some digging

if a planet is NOT in critical degree even by 1 second, it is NOT in in critical degree. It has to be in the same degre 00 second to 59 second.
Moderns manage to misquote the ancients.

12 deg 51 is not 13 deg therefore it is NOT critical degree.
We have the same in horary. There was 1 chart long long time 2 planets were involved i cant remeber on top of my head but lets throw some fake degrees. 15 deg 45 faster planet approaching 15 deg 55.. at the degree of GET THIS ... 15 degrees 54 seconds it goes stationary and retrogrades. It never reached 15 deg 55 second. We were going back and forth. everything was there. Answer was NO. I know it is horary but horary is traditional branch of astrology. It uses everything ancients have been using for hundreds of years.

does this help at all?
T:alien:

Munch
01-15-2012, 04:34 PM
Tikana, that makes a lot of sense to me given that a critical DEGREE isn't going to be comprised of several degrees.

Claire19
01-16-2012, 01:27 AM
Who made these up and what relevance do they have.. Planetary aspects to each other are what counts...

student4life
01-16-2012, 03:46 PM
Claire19,

The aspects are of course very important, but the degree in which the planets reside is also important. It describes the strength of that influence, it is like measuring magnitude. The critical degrees are supposed to have added significance for a specific influence.
It is similar to looking at the exhalation/fall/detriment/ruler. These are all ingredients to the same cake.

This a link to an article that will give a brief synopsis of history Critical Degrees

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/astrology-articles/spiritual-astrology.php

This has some general interpretations of planets in a critical degree
http://www.dearbrutus.com/critical_degrees.html

student4life
01-16-2012, 03:47 PM
Tikana,

SniperBomber328
01-17-2012, 01:04 PM
What if Venus and Jupiter land in the exact degree of a Critical degree of the same sign?

My Venus is at 13* and Jupiter at 26* Libra, so are they both affected by the critical degree? If so, is it a positive effect or a negative affect? Would appreciate a(n) answer. :smile:

Noth
01-17-2012, 03:33 PM
The posts here suggest that a planet on a critical degree will express itself with increased magnitude. . . the article also posted here (http://www.dearbrutus.com/critical_degrees.html) suggests specific interpretations for planets on critical degrees.

To those who use critical degrees to interpret a chart, how does it factor in when viewed together with aspects, etc? The article suggests positive and negative outcomes for critical degree placements; how does the astrologer determine which is likely to be expressed, in what way, etc.

If it is simply a question of magnitude, does a moon at 0 cancer express itself that much more than a moon at, say, 5 cancer?

This is an interesting discussion. . . thanks. I've posted my chart in case it's useful, as it has two critical degree placements: moon at 0 cancer and pluto at 9 scorpio. Incidentally, anybody with 0 degree cardinal placements notice anything about uranus at 0 aries recently? I can't say I factored in the fact of the location when I looked at the square to the natal moon at 0 cancer. . . although the effects more or less followed the lines prescribed by the chart, I was somewhat surprised at the level of intensity. . .

student4life
01-17-2012, 06:55 PM
What if Venus and Jupiter land in the exact degree of a Critical degree of the same sign?

My Venus is at 13* and Jupiter at 26* Libra, so are they both affected by the critical degree? If so, is it a positive effect or a negative affect? Would appreciate a(n) answer. :smile:

Having your Venus in a critical degree:
You are optimistic but often disappointed, you can be very vulnerable emotionally and can be imposed upon or taken advantage of by others. Actually you victimize yourself with a childish impatience and refusal to allow things to run their course – such as waiting for Mr. or Ms. “Right” to come along, and pouncing on any likely prospects. You may not be looking for give-and-take in an intimate relationship so much as for security and a sense of stability. You are nurturing, spontaneous and full of adventure.

Having your Jupiter in a critical degree:
You like being looked up to and taking charge. You take great delight in sheer contrariness, and there may be a vaguely patronizing or condescending air about you – or the sense that you are humoring or indulging other people. You’re often unwilling to give anyone else any credit. When you have learned the virtues of adaptability, the steadfastness of purpose and complete sincerity which are your outstanding qualities win you the firm allegiance of all who know you.

This information above is from one of the links that I included in an earlier post. This is paraphrased and some parts directly from the article to get the full picture.

13 degrees of Libra: Food and drink
26 degrees of Libra: Detectives

Venus is in its ruler in Libra so it feels very comfortable there.

Another thing to remember is the strength of degrees 00 will be the weakest, but growing in strength culminating in the highest point at 15 degrees then waining in strength all the way back to 29.

You must also take into account what house they are in and what aspects they are making. This is just one little facet of the whole chart. It is meant to be amalgamated into the rest of the information for a comprehensive and accurate picture.

Please check out the lunar mansions and pitted degrees that the others have posted also.

Good Luck,
S4L

jill
01-17-2012, 07:27 PM
I didn't see this linked up above so here is an interesting article.

http://www.dearbrutus.com/critical_degrees.html

Great link...nicely written and informative. Thanks for posting it. jill

Munch
01-18-2012, 12:00 AM
Sure! Happy to pass along things that I find that actually contain decent information.

SniperBomber328
01-18-2012, 09:43 AM
Having your Venus in a critical degree:
You are optimistic but often disappointed, you can be very vulnerable emotionally and can be imposed upon or taken advantage of by others. Actually you victimize yourself with a childish impatience and refusal to allow things to run their course – such as waiting for Mr. or Ms. “Right” to come along, and pouncing on any likely prospects. You may not be looking for give-and-take in an intimate relationship so much as for security and a sense of stability. You are nurturing, spontaneous and full of adventure.

Having your Jupiter in a critical degree:
You like being looked up to and taking charge. You take great delight in sheer contrariness, and there may be a vaguely patronizing or condescending air about you – or the sense that you are humoring or indulging other people. You’re often unwilling to give anyone else any credit. When you have learned the virtues of adaptability, the steadfastness of purpose and complete sincerity which are your outstanding qualities win you the firm allegiance of all who know you.

This information above is from one of the links that I included in an earlier post. This is paraphrased and some parts directly from the article to get the full picture.

13 degrees of Libra: Food and drink
26 degrees of Libra: Detectives

Venus is in its ruler in Libra so it feels very comfortable there.

Another thing to remember is the strength of degrees 00 will be the weakest, but growing in strength culminating in the highest point at 15 degrees then waining in strength all the way back to 29.

You must also take into account what house they are in and what aspects they are making. This is just one little facet of the whole chart. It is meant to be amalgamated into the rest of the information for a comprehensive and accurate picture.

Please check out the lunar mansions and pitted degrees that the others have posted also.

Good Luck,
S4L

Thanks S4L for this post, though I don't really know if those descriptions fit me well. Another thing I going to have to mix to my "ever expanding concoction of astrological terms and symobols of me" data. Just a funny term I coined, nothing actually real.

One thing I am though is spontaneous, and my Libra is in the 12th with Jupiter and Venus there, so it might be more subtle if anything. Or inner closed (imprisoned) as some like to think.

student4life
01-18-2012, 10:47 PM
One thing I am though is spontaneous, and my Libra is in the 12th with Jupiter and Venus there, so it might be more subtle if anything. Or inner closed (imprisoned) as some like to think.

What are they aspecting? Are they retrograde? Do you have a Libra or Scorpio as your ASC?

The 12th does represent things that are hidden or institutions (i.e. prisons, hospitals, etc...) also, hidden enemies, solitude, and the unconscious.

I am not seeing your chart, but from the very little information you have provided it seems that your love life is somewhat hidden or very private. You most likely idealize love and have an almost idealized image of what you would like your mate to be. If you are a guy you probably would like a woman who is very feminine and reserved. You are probably shy also, unless something else in the chart states otherwise.
With having your Jupiter in Libra in the 12th you could possibly make money doing some sort mediation possibly in the prison system, or dealing with juvenile delinquents. Maybe being a beautician in a convent. :innocent: LOL You see where I'm going with this. I am giving you a very general brief description of how it could express itself because I don't have any other information to go off of.

DreamingTheSeas
01-19-2012, 06:26 AM
This 11 year old girl is my god daughter. As you can see she has been born in a critical degree on her ASC. Problem??? YES! She has mendal retardation in a very large degree. She has not said any word even mom or dad, she can not use even the bathroom.

dr. farr
01-19-2012, 06:38 AM
Very unfortunate to hear that, and hope that she improves; yes, the ascending degree is critical, but personally I think that the Moon posited in the azimene degree (11Cancer) is a major factor: might have even influenced the entire 11th (whole sign) house, of which Moon is dispositor (and, if so, this would then also impact Mercury as well, from which the azimened Moon is seperating a conjunction) Further the Moon is "blocked" from "doing its duty" by also occupying a pitted degree of Cancer (again, the 11th degree) Not so much that the Moon "harms"-rather its just "not available" to do what is should, to make the effects/influences its "supposed to make", for this person.

DreamingTheSeas
01-19-2012, 07:29 AM
Very unfortunate to hear that, and hope that she improves; yes, the ascending degree is critical, but personally I think that the Moon posited in the azimene degree (11Cancer) is a major factor: might have even influenced the entire 11th (whole sign) house, of which Moon is dispositor (and, if so, this would then also impact Mercury as well, from which the azimened Moon is seperating a conjunction) Further the Moon is "blocked" from "doing its duty" by also occupying a pitted degree of Cancer (again, the 11th degree) Not so much that the Moon "harms"-rather its just "not available" to do what is should, to make the effects/influences its "supposed to make", for this person.

dr. farr,

So the 11th degree in Cancer is also critical??

dr. farr
01-19-2012, 07:35 AM
dr. farr,

So the 11th degree in Cancer is also critical??

No, it is not a critical degree: 11 Cancer is one of the azimenes (later called "lamed") degree and it is also a pitted degree. It "influence" is modified somewhat (lessening its disruptive qualities) because it is also one of the Bright degrees of Cancer.

DreamingTheSeas
01-19-2012, 08:21 AM
No, it is not a critical degree: 11 Cancer is one of the azimenes (later called "lamed") degree and it is also a pitted degree. It "influence" is modified somewhat (lessening its disruptive qualities) because it is also one of the Bright degrees of Cancer.

dr. farr my daughter has also Moon in Cancer in 11th degree but alone in 3rd house (whole house). As also makes a square with a 12th house Venus ( her ASC ruler) makes me a little worry about health problems in her future.

Anyway, back to god daughter, her Uranus in 20 47 of Aqua could say is in critical degree?

dr. farr
01-19-2012, 08:57 AM
Don't just look at one element in the chart; other factors come into play, for example in the god daughter chart it was a critical ascending degree plus Moon in azimene/pitted degree IN its house of rulership (Cancer) AND dispositing Mercury; these factor caught my attention outright; further, your daughter's pitted Moon will not influence (by square) Venus in the 12th, because pitted planets can't do much relative to making significant aspectual influences; further, your daughter's Moon is helped somewhat by being in its joy in the 3rd house.

DreamingTheSeas
01-19-2012, 10:36 AM
thank you dr. farr.

SniperBomber328
01-20-2012, 10:00 AM
What are they aspecting? Are they retrograde? Do you have a Libra or Scorpio as your ASC?

The 12th does represent things that are hidden or institutions (i.e. prisons, hospitals, etc...) also, hidden enemies, solitude, and the unconscious.

I am not seeing your chart, but from the very little information you have provided it seems that your love life is somewhat hidden or very private. You most likely idealize love and have an almost idealized image of what you would like your mate to be. If you are a guy you probably would like a woman who is very feminine and reserved. You are probably shy also, unless something else in the chart states otherwise.
With having your Jupiter in Libra in the 12th you could possibly make money doing some sort mediation possibly in the prison system, or dealing with juvenile delinquents. Maybe being a beautician in a convent. :innocent: LOL You see where I'm going with this. I am giving you a very general brief description of how it could express itself because I don't have any other information to go off of.

My chart:

Below in the link if it shows.

student4life
01-29-2012, 05:17 PM
SniperBomber328,

I have looked at the chart that you posted.
Starting with your Venus, it is in a very good placement with degree and sign, it is in the 12th house which will make it more subtle or hidden as you said earlier, it is square your Uranus and Neptune in the 3rd house but I think that is softened due to the earlier mentioned positive attributes that the venus is experiencing.
The Jupiter trine Saturn in the 4th house is very nice. Having Saturn in Aquarius in the 4th trine the Libra Jupiter in the 12th is beneficial with helping others and seeking balance.
This is a little off topic from the discussion on critical degrees but your chart seems to have a very strong leaning towards doing the unusual for the purpose of helping others. You are combining the energies of Libra Scorpio Capricorn Aquarius and Pisces. Unusual mystical social work :wink:

Claire19
01-29-2012, 11:10 PM
I did post the chart. I am just trying to understand the significance, if any. :) Thanks
Very sorry I didnt see that. My fault.. As I say I dont give credence to critical degrees and dont see the logic in the theory...but that is my opinion.

SniperBomber328
01-30-2012, 03:36 PM
SniperBomber328,

I have looked at the chart that you posted.
Starting with your Venus, it is in a very good placement with degree and sign, it is in the 12th house which will make it more subtle or hidden as you said earlier, it is square your Uranus and Neptune in the 3rd house but I think that is softened due to the earlier mentioned positive attributes that the venus is experiencing.
The Jupiter trine Saturn in the 4th house is very nice. Having Saturn in Aquarius in the 4th trine the Libra Jupiter in the 12th is beneficial with helping others and seeking balance.
This is a little off topic from the discussion on critical degrees but your chart seems to have a very strong leaning towards doing the unusual for the purpose of helping others. You are combining the energies of Libra Scorpio Capricorn Aquarius and Pisces. Unusual mystical social work :wink:

Thanks for my chart reading, especially on Venus and the 12th House. Though I never really felt e mystical erge to help others, I do try to always help others in the sense of real life. Though with chores....meh.

serafin5
02-01-2012, 12:35 AM
The 3 degrees mentioned is both before and after the degree; however, I myself consider this too wide, and consider about 2 degrees maximum; if you are going to consider critical degrees in delineation, then you should also consider other degree qualities such as the pitted/elevated degree and the Bright and dark degree qualities as well (these other considerations are found in older Traditionalist and Hellenistic astrology sources*)
Regarding the critical degrees, I follow Manly P. Hall in regarding them as conferring constructive ("benefic") influences as the general rule. Planets in them (in my opinion moreso than cuspal degrees) are generally enhanced and whatever the planet's constructive influences might be, are elevated, by such placement.

(*Many of our Modernist friends discount the degree qualities-including the critical degrees-either mostly or entirely, and generally consider them of minor consequence; many have similar attitudes toward the Lunar Nodes, toward the Arabic Parts, and many even toward the Part of Fortune; although as an eclectic I follow many Modernist concepts and methods, I follow the Traditionalists and Hellenists in attributing much significance to conepts like the critical degrees and other degree qualities, the Lots, and other oldtime practices and procedures)

Hi Dr Farr:

When I first saw this thread I basically said the same thing about elevated and pitted degs, bright and dark, etc. I didnt know that there was another table of critical degrees and/or school of thought on this. Can you direct me to any sites listing other critical degrees other than what I've been learning from the Trads? I'm a little embarrassed but oh well that is how I'm learning and there's no shame in my game.:lol:

Thanks for always helping this student!
Serafin5

dr. farr
02-01-2012, 04:30 AM
The list of critical degrees is the same for all: basically they are connected with the Mansions of the Moon (a highly overlooked element in both Modernist and Traditionalist Western astrology by the way, but still important in Vedic and Chinese astrology to this day) Perhaps exploring the ramifications of the Lunar Mansions in their connection to the Critical Degrees, would be of interest to you...

serafin5
02-01-2012, 06:26 AM
The list of critical degrees is the same for all: basically they are connected with the Mansions of the Moon (a highly overlooked element in both Modernist and Traditionalist Western astrology by the way, but still important in Vedic and Chinese astrology to this day) Perhaps exploring the ramifications of the Lunar Mansions in their connection to the Critical Degrees, would be of interest to you...n

If learning this will help me to interpret a person's chart better and/or tell me or the astrologer something additionally important then by all means I think it would be beneficial for me to learn any and all info I need to become a better astrologer

dr. farr
02-01-2012, 07:30 AM
Understanding of Lunar Mansions can often be an important additional delineative tool (its central to say Vedic astrology, where the Mansions are called "nakshatras") I would learn about them!

Claire19
02-03-2012, 01:08 AM
I did post the chart. I am just trying to understand the significance, if any. :) Thanks
sorry, didnt see the chart.

Claire19
02-03-2012, 01:11 AM
dr. farr my daughter has also Moon in Cancer in 11th degree but alone in 3rd house (whole house). As also makes a square with a 12th house Venus ( her ASC ruler) makes me a little worry about health problems in her future.

Anyway, back to god daughter, her Uranus in 20 47 of Aqua could say is in critical degree?
I would look at her 6th house planets if any and the house ruler. Also the ascendant ruler and it is aspects as well as the sign and any planets in the 1st which indicates birth problems and early days. 3rd house rules our everyday communications, siblings, neighbours, our basic education and our intelligence in general. The 12th can deal with hospitals and rehabilitation and our weaknesses such as addictions but not our general health issues.

serafin5
02-06-2012, 05:22 PM
The list of critical degrees is the same for all: basically they are connected with the Mansions of the Moon (a highly overlooked element in both Modernist and Traditionalist Western astrology by the way, but still important in Vedic and Chinese astrology to this day) Perhaps exploring the ramifications of the Lunar Mansions in their connection to the Critical Degrees, would be of interest to you...

Dear Dr. Farr:

I dont mean to bug but I want to learn right and you always help me. Please?:innocent:.........

The only critical degrees I have are the 21st degree in Leo, scorpio and aquarius. I have 0deg in libra, and 9deg for scorpio. I have a whole chart of elevated and pitted degrees and the reason I'm confused is that the list Vista gives at the start of the thread for cardinal signs includes 13degs and I have in my chart that 13degs is elevated for signs cancer and capricorn. Can 13degs be both critical and elevated at the same time?

I will look on the search mode and the net for other explanations too.

Thanks always,
Serafin5

dr. farr
02-07-2012, 02:17 AM
Yes, as I have mentioned in one of my posts to my "Elevated and Pitted Degrees" thread, a critical degree can also be an elevated degree or it can be a pitted degree (in which case it "shines forth from its pit")-I have gone into this question somewhat in my post to that thread, to which I refer you for more information.

may28gemini
07-03-2012, 07:28 AM
Wow this really blew my mind! Now I know the meaning behind my 29 Gemini Mercury... he was not happy that he was going to fly into soggy Cancer so I have a less powerful Mercury than those with earlier degrees. I did read student4life's 101 on Jupiter in 0 degree and it's dead on for me. I have 0 Libra Jupiter and I can be a condescending jerk. I don't ever really mean to be that way, but sometimes I can't help myself because I'm often surrounded by idiots.

LOL thank you so much. I love this informative thread!!

DreamingTheSeas
07-04-2012, 10:00 AM
I would look at her 6th house planets if any and the house ruler. Also the ascendant ruler and it is aspects as well as the sign and any planets in the 1st which indicates birth problems and early days. 3rd house rules our everyday communications, siblings, neighbours, our basic education and our intelligence in general. The 12th can deal with hospitals and rehabilitation and our weaknesses such as addictions but not our general health issues.

In Whole House her 6th house (Libra) Ruler is in 12th, also her 1st house (Taurus) Ruler is in 12th. So her Venus in 12th makes me worry a lot,a Venus who squares moon but sextilles Jupiter. Until now (she is 3 years and 4 months) seems very healthy, the only thing is she lost a front teeth when she was 17 months.

Zaphod
07-04-2012, 12:19 PM
Appendix 3 of the Avelar and Ribeiro book "On the Heavenly Spheres" has some useful tables and discussion to further illustrate Dr. Farr's points. IMO, it's an altogether excellent introduction to traditional astrological methods.

Sandra0406
07-04-2012, 09:00 PM
From 29 - 30 degrees is actually 30th degree,from 0 to 1 degree is 1st degree...This means for example when a planet located at the 13th degree it's actually 14th degree...or maybe I'm wrong?

StillOne
07-05-2012, 01:44 AM
Well, I figure it's a sign that this thread was bumped today as I was thinking (yet again) about my Gemini Moon in the critical degree of 17deg 21'48" (12th house).

Searching the web shows some bad news regarding this position... Our own AW says that this degree is a degree of homicide! :pinched: :unsure:
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/dictionary/gemini-individual-degrees.php

Does anyone have any other insight? I swear I'm not a killer... :crying:

dr. farr
07-05-2012, 02:05 AM
From 29 - 30 degrees is actually 30th degree,from 0 to 1 degree is 1st degree...This means for example when a planet located at the 13th degree it's actually 14th degree...or maybe I'm wrong?

Actually the modern sign numeration takes us back one degree from the oldtime sign numeration lists; eg, the oldtime 30th degree is now the 29th degree; a planet located in the 13th oldstyle degree is now in the 12th degree using modern sign numeration; the exaltation degree of the Moon, given in oldstyle as 3 Taurus, is actually 2 Taurus using our contemporary sign numeration; all chart programs now set-up charts using modern sign numeration (unless you specifically program for oldstyle numeration) and it is unfortunate that the available lists of degrees (including Fall and exaltation degrees, critical degrees, elevated and pitted degrees, male/female degree, etc etc) have NOT corrected to the modern sign numeration-I think this has misled many, particularly of our Traditionalist friends, who unknowingly are applying oldstyle numeration to charts that are actually erected using the modern sign numerations!

Sandra0406
07-05-2012, 02:19 AM
Actually the modern sign numeration takes us back one degree from the oldtime sign numeration lists; eg, the oldtime 30th degree is now the 29th degree; a planet located in the 13th oldstyle degree is now in the 12th degree using modern sign numeration; the exaltation degree of the Moon, given in oldstyle as 3 Taurus, is actually 2 Taurus using our contemporary sign numeration; all chart programs now set-up charts using modern sign numeration (unless you specifically program for oldstyle numeration) and it is unfortunate that the available lists of degrees (including Fall and exaltation degrees, critical degrees, elevated and pitted degrees, male/female degree, etc etc) have NOT corrected to the modern sign numeration-I think this has misled many, particularly of our Traditionalist friends, who unknowingly are applying oldstyle numeration to charts that are actually erected using the modern sign numerations!
Ok!Thanks!So now we have 29 degrees, not 30...

dr. farr
07-05-2012, 02:27 AM
Almost right: we still have 30 degrees in each sign, only now we count (numerate) from 0 to 29 (whereas in the oldtime they counted from 1 to 30)

Sandra0406
07-05-2012, 02:49 AM
Ok!Thanks!

luxsaxon
08-12-2012, 02:27 PM
It is said that the 13th degree of cancer is critical. I have Saturn in cancer, 12 degrees 34'3". Can this be considered a critical degree?

JUPITERASC
08-12-2012, 04:43 PM
It is said that the 13th degree of cancer is critical. I have Saturn in cancer, 12 degrees 34'3". Can this be considered a critical degree?
IMO, according to dr. farr, if using a natal chart that has been created using modern sign numeration, then:
Actually the modern sign numeration takes us back one degree from the oldtime sign numeration lists; eg, the oldtime 30th degree is now the 29th degree;
therefore - and in fact dr. farr specifically mentions that:
....a planet located in the 13th oldstyle degree is now in the 12th degree using modern sign numeration;
Which means fwiw IMO your Saturn at 12 Cancer 34' 3" IS located in the 'oldtime sign numeration of the 13th degree of Cancer' and IS therefore located in a Critical Degree.... HOWEVER IMO we require a confirmation from dr.farr on this matter :smile:
...the exaltation degree of the Moon, given in oldstyle as 3 Taurus, is actually 2 Taurus using our contemporary sign numeration; all chart programs now set-up charts using modern sign numeration (unless you specifically program for oldstyle numeration) and it is unfortunate that the available lists of degrees (including Fall and exaltation degrees, critical degrees, elevated and pitted degrees, male/female degree, etc etc) have NOT corrected to the modern sign numeration-I think this has misled many, particularly of our Traditionalist friends, who unknowingly are applying oldstyle numeration to charts that are actually erected using the modern sign numerations!

Alice McDermott
08-13-2012, 02:24 AM
HI

you are quite welcome

I did some digging

if a planet is NOT in critical degree even by 1 second, it is NOT in in critical degree. It has to be in the same degre 00 second to 59 second.
Moderns manage to misquote the ancients.

12 deg 51 is not 13 deg therefore it is NOT critical degree.

Critical degrees are the intersection of the lunar Moon Mansions with the Solar Zodiac. They are spaced 12 degrees 51 minutes apart as that is the average daily motion of the Moon and is therefore the cusp of each Lunar Mansion.

So, as Tikana says, there is no orb at all for critical degrees, either a planet is on the exact spot or it is not on a critical degree. In my personal astrology I do allow a little wriggle room of a few minutes, but never a degree or over.

By the way, these degrees aren't 'bad' they are just emphasised because of the connection between the lunar and solar zodiacs. In this case the word 'critical' can be taken in the wrong way, the word responds best to this dictionary interpretation: "involving skillful judgment as to truth, merit, etc.; judicial: a critical analysis."

Alice

dr. farr
08-13-2012, 07:07 AM
Yes it is quite true that there are no orbs for the degree-either the planet (or cusp or Lot, etc) is IN a specific degree, or not. However it also depends upon which list of degrees one is using: if it is a list which has not been corrected to modern sign numeration, then the degrees on that list must be taken back 1 degree to match the modern sign numeration: for example, all uncorrected lists give 3 Taurus as the exaltation degree of the Moon-in modern sign numeration this would have to be taken back 1 degree, so in modern sign numeration the exaltation degree falls @ 2 Taurus (not at 3 Taurus)-see the notes given on the skyscript degree lists, for verification of this fact about translating oldtime degree numeration to the numeration used now on all astrological formatting programs...

Alice McDermott
08-13-2012, 07:55 AM
Yes it is quite true that there are no orbs for the degree-either the planet (or cusp or Lot, etc) is IN a specific degree, or not. However it also depends upon which list of degrees one is using: if it is a list which has not been corrected to modern sign numeration, then the degrees on that list must be taken back 1 degree to match the modern sign numeration: for example, all uncorrected lists give 3 Taurus as the exaltation degree of the Moon-in modern sign numeration this would have to be taken back 1 degree, so in modern sign numeration the exaltation degree falls @ 2 Taurus (not at 3 Taurus)-see the notes given on the skyscript degree lists, for verification of this fact about translating oldtime degree numeration to the numeration used now on all astrological formatting programs...

Modern astrologers use the exact degree, minute and often second, but this precise work wasn't as important in older times so they rounded up the degrees. They started the degrees at 1, so anything between 0-1 degrees was called 1 degree, anything between 1-2 degrees was called 2 degrees ... and so on.

The first 12 degrees 51 minutes of a Moon Mansion are exactly that, 0 - 12'51', but this was rounded to 13 degrees.

In reality the Moon Mansions (based on the average movement of the Moon per day) of 12 degrees 51 minutes start at 0 Aries so this is the correct degree for the start of the second Moon Mansion, 25 degrees 42 minutes for the start of the third Moon Mansion ... and so on.

Alice

JUPITERASC
08-13-2012, 03:41 PM
Yes it is quite true that there are no orbs for the degree-either the planet (or cusp or Lot, etc) is IN a specific degree, or not. However it also depends upon which list of degrees one is using: if it is a list which has not been corrected to modern sign numeration, then the degrees on that list must be taken back 1 degree to match the modern sign numeration: for example, all uncorrected lists give 3 Taurus as the exaltation degree of the Moon-in modern sign numeration this would have to be taken back 1 degree, so in modern sign numeration the exaltation degree falls @ 2 Taurus (not at 3 Taurus) -see the notes given on the skyscript degree lists, for verification of this fact about translating oldtime degree numeration to the numeration used now on all astrological formatting programs...
98 word quote sourced from http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3612&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15&sid=e0f803a2a3da40fcc8620b3a0dfbc833:smile:

“… 'Critical degrees' illustrate that modern astrology drifts unrecognisably from original sources. There is no debate that original Arabic lunar mansions related to sidereal system of 28 mansions defined by particular fixed stars – unambiguously stated - Christopher Warnock 'Mansions of the Moon'.

Arab era 'Critical degrees' related to fixed stars marking sidereal lunar mansions varying in size from 3º to 27º whose position obviously shifted in tropical.

By the time of Cornelius Agrippa European astrologers switched to a set of tropical lunar mansions. Unlike the sidereal mansions these were standardised to approximately twelve degrees and fifty one minutes.”

luxsaxon
08-15-2012, 01:18 PM
By the way, these degrees aren't 'bad' they are just emphasised because of the connection between the lunar and solar zodiacs. In this case the word 'critical' can be taken in the wrong way, the word responds best to this dictionary interpretation: "involving skillful judgment as to truth, merit, etc.; judicial: a critical analysis."

Alice

Thank you!