Sociopaths and their place in our society.

[Love2Know]

Video
http://www.fisheadmovie.com/watch1 watch 1

http://www.fisheadmovie.com/watch2 then watch 2

Please comment if you have watched this video.
If interested full movie password fhmovie

FULL VIDEO

http://vimeo.com/29078157

[Choe]

Video
http://www.fisheadmovie.com/watch2 then watch 2

Please comment if you have watched this video.
If interested full movie password fhmovie
FULL VIDEO
http://vimeo.com/29078157


The 2nd video reminded me of the film "Talented Mr.Ripley" where I find not just Ripley but also the character of Law to be psychopathic....(because the Law's character was easily bored with people after using them,charismatic etc.)

[Love2Know]

The 2nd video reminded me of the film "Talented Mr.Ripley" where I find not just Ripley but also the character of Law to be psychopathic....(because the Law's character was easily bored with people after using them,charismatic etc.)

Very true, good point. Ripply was more psychopath/ Law more sociopath. He did indeed belittle human relations, for example what you previously stated with 'using people' as well as serial cheating on his fiance. They both were disturbing characters. I always felt Snoop Dog (Random I know), gave me a sociopath vibe to the point I turned off the tv if I saw him on it.

[Choe]

Very true, good point. Ripply was more psychopath/ Law more sociopath. He did indeed belittle human relations, for example what you previously stated with 'using people' as well as serial cheating on his fiance. They both were disturbing characters. I always felt Snoop Dog (Random I know), gave me a sociopath vibe to the point I turned off the tv if I saw him on it.

Oh,I forgot about the cheating,psychopaths are said to be distinctively promiscuous too.
I agree they were both disturbing characters! Well said. However I wanted to point about Law's character as I felt only Ripley was made the BAD guy,when both were sociopaths,only Gwyneth's character was normal person :smile:

[Love2Know]

Indeed lol!!!!!! I must also point out how this video talks about our systems and organizations, themselves are sociopathic. This is a very good point, the qualities that a sociopath possess are generally ambitious, vanity, egotistical, lack of empathy, COMPETITIVE, impulsive (making decisions quickly) these are the valued qualities of our wester, european society and now with the 'global village' phenomena it is spreading all over the world and devaluing countries with strong community and kinship values. These people are also very charming and make you feel like you are the center of the world for however long they deem you useful to them.

[Mandy]

Indeed lol!!!!!! I must also point out how this video talks about our systems and organizations, themselves are sociopathic. This is a very good point, the qualities that a sociopath possess are generally ambitious, vanity, egotistical, lack of empathy, COMPETITIVE, impulsive (making decisions quickly) these are the valued qualities of our wester, european society and now with the 'global village' phenomena it is spreading all over the world and devaluing countries with strong community and kinship values.

Agreed. Western social 'systems' are sociopathic, I thought it was fuelled by the individualist culture we live in. All the more reason to tune mentally into eastern philosophy. We are the next generation of decision makers...

Going to watch the video now. Thanks for sharing.

P.S. Don't forget to add the word CHARMING to the sociopath list!

[Love2Know]

Oh very true I WILL ADD it!!!!!!!!! I wounder what 2 sociopaths courting each other looks like?

[R4VEN]

If you're interested in sociopaths/psychopaths (and I am, since having to attempt to deal with a whole family of them over the past 4-5 years, and they operate so much as a cult, almost as they have only one mind between them - very scary to watch in action) I'd recommend the following book by British journalist, Jon Ronson (he's the man who wrote the book, "The Men Who Stare At Goats", on which the film of the same name was written.)

http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/Psychopath-Test-Jon-Ronson/9780330492270

I found that once I got into it, I could not put this book down until I'd finished.
When researching for this book, Ronson interviewed Al Dunlap, considered to be your fairly typical corporate psychopath. At one point during the interview Dunlap was standing in front of a giant sized portrait of himself placed prominently in his house, and thus demonstrating #2 characteristic of a psychopath, Grandiose Sense Of Self-Worth from the following list:

http://www.arkancide.com/psychopathy.htm

[Mandy]

If you dont want nightmares, dont read this:




Serial killers (in the UK) Rose and Fred West, were sociopathic husband and wife who murdered children http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_West . Yeh, its a recipe for disaster what two sociopaths can do.

[Mandy]

If you're interested in sociopaths/psychopaths (and I am, since having to attempt to deal with a whole family of them over the past 4-5 years, and they operate so much as a cult, almost as they have only one mind between them - very scary to watch in action) I'd recommend the following book by British journalist, Jon Ronson (he's the man who wrote the book, "The Men Who Stare At Goats", on which the film of the same name was written.)

http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/Psychopath-Test-Jon-Ronson/9780330492270

I found that once I got into it, I could not put this book down until I'd finished.
When researching for this book, Ronson interviewed Al Dunlap, considered to be your fairly typical corporate psychopath. At one point during the interview Dunlap was standing in front of a giant sized portrait of himself placed prominently in his house, and thus demonstrating #2 characteristic, Grandiose Sense Of Self-Worth from the following list:

http://www.arkancide.com/psychopathy.htm

Ooooooh, interesting!

[pudinnpop]

When i see this thread,i think narcissism!!!So would a narc be a sicopath by definition?

[Mandy]

When i see this thread,i think narcissism!!!So would a narc be a sicopath by definition?

God, I hope not for your sake! No, they are different.

[R4VEN]

When i see this thread,i think narcissism!!!So would a narc be a sicopath by definition?

Yes. Narcissism is a personality disorder under the sociopath umbrella. Many sociopaths are narcissistic, but not all.

And to qualify further, most corporate sociopaths are narcissistic - their emotions have been discounted somewhere along the way, so they don't react like most of us. They are the people who have no difficulty in sacking workers, then justifying it with a charming smile, and an argument which sounds quite plausible!

The kind of psychopath who kills people may not have learned the kind of skills - verbal and social - that a narcissist displays, so they just act out when they feel the need.

Just to illustrate, that father in the family I mention in my post above is a textbook narcissist - he ticks all the boxes. A number of years ago one of his sons attempted suicide (I could totally understand why!!) and the father said to me: "Do you know how it feels to have a child who wants to die?" That was when I knew for certain he was sociopathic/narcissistic:
- it's all about him
- no mention of his son, other than how his son's actions affected him
- the anguish in his voice was so put on, and then immediately he switched it off, and talked in a normal voice

[Love2Know]

Sociopaths basically it's like someone deactivated the part of their brain which controls empathy. I was on prozac and other medications for a few years because I had 'anxiety' as a teen, this is mentioned in the video.... I wasn't a sociopath but I was definitely numb. I couldn't feel happy or sad or anything, I was pretty much void of emotions, I was a zombie... but actually all my ambition went away as well. I also wouldn't talk to anyone for a year not even my childhood friends, I didn't care about anything. It was really weird. I started to read this book about twins and one of them was skitzo and for some reason it made me realize how mentally castrated I had become. I ended up flushing those medications down the toilette and moving out of town for a while! Best decision ever.

[pudinnpop]

Ah so its NOT pure narcissim b ut close..Cos narcs dont have empathy either!!

[Mandy]

Yes. Narcissism is a personality disorder under the sociopath umbrella. Many sociopaths are narcissistic, but not all.

So to confirm, many sociopaths are narcissistic, but not all, but all narcissists are sociopathic? Is that correct?

[Mandy]

Sociopaths basically it's like someone deactivated the part of their brain which controls empathy. I was on prozac and other medications for a few years because I had 'anxiety' as a teen, this is mentioned in the video.... I wasn't a sociopath but I was definitely numb. I couldn't feel happy or sad or anything, I was pretty much void of emotions, I was a zombie... but actually all my ambition went away as well. I also wouldn't talk to anyone for a year not even my childhood friends, I didn't care about anything. It was really weird. I started to read this book about twins and one of them was skitzo and for some reason it made me realize how mentally castrated I had become. I ended up flushing those medications down the toilette and moving out of town for a while! Best decision ever.

Poor pumpkin. Dont let them medicate you again. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPOrD6xfDNo

[Mark]

Sociopaths do have a place in our society. They are the reason we build mental institutions.

[R4VEN]

So to confirm, many sociopaths are narcissistic, but not all, but all narcissists are sociopathic? Is that correct?

If you have a look through the 20 characteristics of a psychopath, then I'd say that any regular narcissist scores high on this check list, so by definition is a psychopath. Many people with measurable personality disorders have a few characteristics of psychopathy, but would not be considered a genuine psychopath.

And we're talking here about the psychological personality disorder of narcissism, not your Libran friend who can't pass a mirror without staring fondly at her reflection!!

[R4VEN]

Sociopaths do have a place in our society. They are the reason we build mental institutions.

Great comment, Mark.

And don't forget the prison system, also. And the many and varied systems of law.

[pudinnpop]

Mandy great video,I can relate!!

[Love2Know]

Thank you for sharing that video Mandy! It got me emotional! Also, I went to a psychiatrist who deemed me 'too charming' to have anything wrong with me and suggest just a therapist to help deal with stress. This wack job decided to put me on Prozac and some anti psychotic medication (to help me sleep cuz the prozac made me a zombie). She then wanted to put me on a third med. She was consulting another psychiatrist which I never met, because she wasn't even a doctor. She then said I was 'uncooperative' and 'unresponsive' to her so she told me to find a psychiatrist........ I am not joking I was so drugged out I didn't know my butt from my elbow my parents did start to get outraged, my dad being in the mental health profession freaked when they saw the stuff they had me on for anxiety. This woman was a crack pot and I went to school with her son who was the most drugged out kid ever, cuz he had twitches. She also said there was NO WAY I could stop the medications because it would mess up my brain lol.

[Mandy]

If you have a look through the 20 characteristics of a psychopath, then I'd say that any regular narcissist scores high on this check list, so by definition is a psychopath. Many people with measurable personality disorders have a few characteristics of psychopathy, but would not be considered a genuine psychopath.

And we're talking here about the psychological personality disorder of narcissism, not your Libran friend who can't pass a mirror without staring fondly at her reflection!!

hahaha! Thank you.

[Mark]

The twitches come from D2 antagonists, like Thorazine and Compazine. Haldol can do it too, but it's less likely. If she gave her own child one of these drugs, she really is a crack pot.

P.S. Those twitches are permanent, by the way. That particular drug effect doesn't wear off.

[Mandy]

Thank you for sharing that video Mandy! It got me emotional! Also, I went to a psychiatrist who deemed me 'too charming' to have anything wrong with me and suggest just a therapist to help deal with stress. This wack job decided to put me on Prozac and some anti psychotic medication (to help me sleep cuz the prozac made me a zombie). She then wanted to put me on a third med. She was consulting another psychiatrist which I never met, because she wasn't even a doctor. She then said I was 'uncooperative' and 'unresponsive' to her so she told me to find a psychiatrist........ I am not joking I was so drugged out I didn't know my butt from my elbow my parents did start to get outraged, my dad being in the mental health profession freaked when they saw the stuff they had me on for anxiety. This woman was a crack pot and I went to school with her son who was the most drugged out kid ever, cuz he had twitches. She also said there was NO WAY I could stop the medications because it would mess up my brain lol.

It is ridiculous, that they get away with doing this. I'll say no more because I could write a thesis on it. Isnt it lovely that we have this community to share our stories world-wide. Likey.

[Love2Know]

Yeah, that was a pretty ****** time in my life, it made me a lot more self assertive today though.

[R4VEN]

If any of you have the stomach for it, the Australian film, "Snowtown", has now been released in some countries other than here. It is closely based on a true story of a series of killings back in the 1990's. The person who orchestrated the killings, and organised others to do a lot of the dirty work was considered a fairly text-book narcissistic psychopath, and was brilliantly played by Daniel Henshall. He smiles beautifully, and maintains eye contact with his `targets' - the people he recruits to help him kill. Throughout his period of `grooming', he appears to be the only person with his head on straight, and it is possible to see how his targets would be drawn to him as someone who can `help' them.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1680114/

I warn anyone who attempts to watch this that many people walk out of it, as it is not so much the killings (most of which are talked about, rather than actually acted out on the screen) which are confronting, but the relationships which form between the people involved. I found it very hard to watch.

[Love2Know]

I don't understand why some people would listen to such obvious evilness, as to kill another person for sport. I wonder if I ever met a sociopath, I def knew some psychos. Now I wish I could CAT scan everyone I know while exposing them to emotional stimuli. Oh I knew this one guy, he made me feel dizzy, disorientated and upset. He was actually a psychology student and a part time high school teacher. I told him he how he made me feel and he accused me of being psychotic and stoped talking to me when he used to always randomly tell me to go hang out. I would call him 'the vampire'....... cuz I always saw him walkin around at night.

[sequestra]

Eh, I love this stuff. Fascinating. From an evolutionary stance I wonder if they serve some sort of purpose (Darwinian, that is).

Will they be able to do something for these people pharmaceutically, or surgically? Could they help a shrunken amygdala? I feel empathy for the fact that they completely lack it; imagine existing in such a void. I still don't want to marry one, though.

[Love2Know]

Yeah, I don't feel empathy for them. If I knew someone was emotionally messing with me or others I would be pretty upset. You may not feel empathy but you can still have morals can't you? Wait I just confused myself. Then again, I don't get when people say oh that person is always mean to me, I always go them tell them goodbye!!!!!!!!!!!! I am too sensitive to have patience with that stuff. Also, it's a cancer thing I guess I don't forget anything mean people do to me and I am very good at spotting negative patterns in my relations. I have been called 'freakishly observant', that also could be a pluto mercury thing as well. It is funny because I have been called a sociopath by manipulative people.(like an ex) I am so emotional its crazy..... some people are manipulative and they want you to feel bad for them so they can prey on you. I am also pretty blunt so if I find someone being sketchy I called them out on it. Or when this client was trying to backhandedly degrade my intelligence I told him 'how does it feel to have so little class you think you can degrade someone whenever you please'? He was super defensive after that, I told him listen I am not going to forgive you because you don't want to be forgiven you just want to remain superior. He then gave me a big tip and left lol. Also, my fish are definitively sociopaths.

[R4VEN]

I feel empathy for the fact that they completely lack it; imagine existing in such a void.

I think they must live in a kind of hell. They do spend an enormous amount of energy in setting up and controlling their environment and everyone in it. Everything they do is for something they need, even if it's only for entertainment purposes. It is this aspect of their behaviour which is often the hardest to read, and the one which most leads to a sense of betrayal in the people who get close to them.

I think that we have them for the same reason we have kind and caring, self-sacrificing people. One of the hardest things to deal with (and which was mentioned in the video) is that we tend to try to understand psychopathic behaviour from our own values and position, and from this point of view it never ever makes sense. To understand them is almost impossible, so perhaps that is why they exist - to provide variety.

[R4VEN]

Yeah, I don't feel empathy for them. If I knew someone was emotionally messing with me or others I would be pretty upset. You may not feel empathy but you can still have morals can't you? Wait I just confused myself.

The point with sociopaths is that they have no morals..........or at least they have a kind of flexi-sliding-scale morality, which applies to others, but not to them.

The other thing about them is their total inability to accept responsibility for their behaviour. If they create havoc or pain, it is never their fault. I really loathe that about them.

[sequestra]

You may not feel empathy but you can still have morals can't you? Wait I just confused myself.

Lol. I believe any number of variable combinations/permutations possible...

I think they must live in a kind of hell. They do spend an enormous amount of energy in setting up and controlling their environment and everyone in it.

For instance, branching on from this, I think some might even observe others and wonder, on an intellectual level at least (and who knows, perhaps in a diminished emotional sense), what it is they are missing out on, with a sort of poignant curiosity (Mark please don't bash me for romanticizing). Probably not the severe cases, but like anything else this is a general classification that would vary in degree of severity from one psychopath to the next.

Everything they do is for something they need, even if it's only for entertainment purposes.

Aren't a lot of people like this?

One of the hardest things to deal with (and which was mentioned in the video) is that we tend to try to understand psychopathic behaviour from our own values and position, and from this point of view it never ever makes sense.

Very true indeed. Nothing at all makes much sense to me after I've thought about it enough. Absolutely nothing :sad:

[Love2Know]

I am so emotional I am right beside the edge of no emotions, so yes I can kind of understand them but I can never relate to them. I will freak if I see someone step on a bug. I also get this compliant from strangers, 'I can't read your face'. I am basically an anti-sociopath.

[sequestra]

I also get this compliant from strangers, 'I can't read your face'. I am basically an anti-sociopath.

They can't read your face because you're bubbling with so many swirling and probably frequently conflicting emotions that you appear an enigma! :lol:

[Mandy]

The point with sociopaths is that they have no morals..........or at least they have a kind of flexi-sliding-scale morality, which applies to others, but not to them.

The other thing about them is their total inability to accept responsibility for their behaviour. If they create havoc or pain, it is never their fault. I really loathe that about them.


Thank you for sharing your knowledge R4VEN.

* Do they have true friends? - or are they very much in a world of their own and with people who who they are just using.

* Do they have this characteristic to disappear and not want to know you once they feel you have 'read' them?

I totally agree about being drawn-in once you meet one. they are master manipulators.

[Nexus7]

It is why we have insitutions.
Is that why we have total free-market stock exchanges too?
I remember recently watching a superb documentary recenty about just how the 2008 recession - or rather the first wave train - came into being.

Too bad for the rest of us mortals.

Whatisthe difference between a sociopath and a malignant narcissist?

[sequestra]

Do most of them know they're psychopaths, or do you think a good chunk of them are clueless?

[Love2Know]

Lol yeah it's cuz I totally react to other people like a sponge. At the same time I keep myself closed off, with all my might. Being out too long in crowded places I get migraines. I am very all about self protection. Sequestra, I read they don't care to know or not know.

[sequestra]

Imagine your child being one... Ugh... What would you do... If I have a kid I want it to be a gay cancer male who loves his mum.

[Mandy]

Imagine your child being one... Ugh... What would you do... If I have a kid I want it to be a gay cancer male who loves his mum.

Indeed!!!!

[Love2Know]

roflllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll omgosh too awesome.

[R4VEN]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge R4VEN.

* Do they have true friends? - or are they very much in a world of their own and with people who who they are just using.

* Do they have this characteristic to disappear and not want to know you once they feel you have 'read' them?

I totally agree about being drawn-in once you meet one. they are master manipulators.

Mandy, I am using this thread as therapy!!!! My 6-yr-old grandson spends most of his time in a psychopathic household and family. His grandfather on his mother's side is a text-book sociopath/narcissist, and the grandmother is only marginally less so. I spent around 4 years trying to understand this guy's motivation, and of course only he is privy to that, and mostly it's quite petty and primary school anyway.

I don't think they ever have true friends. They just have people who are useful to them for a period of time.

Their total arrogance means that they believe that no-one can ever fully understand them, or `read' them.

(and because I'm using this as personal therapy, I'll share this story.....)
When my grandson was born, the mother's father crept into the birthing room without being invited to be present during the birth. I have talked about this to a lot of fathers of young women, and they have all been shocked by this, and labelled it sexual abuse, or at the very least sexually inappropriate. The baby's mother was grossed out, but over time she listened to his `reasons' (he said he wanted to `support' her) and he has now been present at the births of two more of her children (not related to me, fortunately!) Over time I have witnessed my grandson's mother becoming more and more under her father's spell, quoting him, doing everything he wants, etc. His true motivation was one of destroying her boundaries and so breaking her will and her spirit. He seems to treat her like his girlfriend, calling her `sweetie' and `darling'. She has been single for the past 6 months, so he moved in to that `space', from where he controls her, and indirectly, her children. I've confronted him on a number of occasions, the most recent of these being 2 days ago. He always acts outraged, or like I'm the one who's crazy. He's a real piece of work. My son (my grandson's father) treats this guy like he doesn't exist, and that makes him so mad!! He has a real need to be at the centre of everyone's world, and to be ignored is the ultimate insult - which is what my son intends it to be!!

Anyway, I said more than I intended. This guy isn't worth the time I took to write all that.

[Love2Know]

Sounds like my biological grandfather, he would whisper things to people to get them to do his bidding. He even coooked his neighbors cat and fed it to him unknowingly. He was a torturous man. He found stuff like this amusing. I would hide behind my mom as a kid from him the few times I met him. He would ignore me, all his grand kids unless he wanted them to do his bidding. He would tell me to watch my dog or he might end up on the BBQ he would also try to sneak meat into my food, as if I was too stupid to notice.

[Zonark]

"In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is King".

[sequestra]

Anyway, I said more than I intended. This guy isn't worth the time I took to write all that.

He may not be worth it, no, but you are - and it was you who needed to offload (plus it was germane to the thread and very interesting too). Thank you.

[R4VEN]

Thanks for those kind words, sequestra.............and you're up late!!!

[sequestra]

Thanks for those kind words, sequestra.............and you're up late!!!

LOL :lol: So are you! Yeah I really need to readjust my sleep cycle - I love the night though!

[Mandy]

Mandy, I am using this thread as therapy!!!! My 6-yr-old grandson spends most of his time in a psychopathic household and family. His grandfather on his mother's side is a text-book sociopath/narcissist, and the grandmother is only marginally less so. I spent around 4 years trying to understand this guy's motivation, and of course only he is privy to that, and mostly it's quite petty and primary school anyway.

I don't think they ever have true friends. They just have people who are useful to them for a period of time.

Their total arrogance means that they believe that no-one can ever fully understand them, or `read' them.

(and because I'm using this as personal therapy, I'll share this story.....)
When my grandson was born, the mother's father crept into the birthing room without being invited to be present during the birth. I have talked about this to a lot of fathers of young women, and they have all been shocked by this, and labelled it sexual abuse, or at the very least sexually inappropriate. The baby's mother was grossed out, but over time she listened to his `reasons' (he said he wanted to `support' her) and he has now been present at the births of two more of her children (not related to me, fortunately!) Over time I have witnessed my grandson's mother becoming more and more under her father's spell, quoting him, doing everything he wants, etc. His true motivation was one of destroying her boundaries and so breaking her will and her spirit. He seems to treat her like his girlfriend, calling her `sweetie' and `darling'. She has been single for the past 6 months, so he moved in to that `space', from where he controls her, and indirectly, her children. I've confronted him on a number of occasions, the most recent of these being 2 days ago. He always acts outraged, or like I'm the one who's crazy. He's a real piece of work. My son (my grandson's father) treats this guy like he doesn't exist, and that makes him so mad!! He has a real need to be at the centre of everyone's world, and to be ignored is the ultimate insult - which is what my son intends it to be!!

Anyway, I said more than I intended. This guy isn't worth the time I took to write all that.

No, thank you very much for sharing. I find case studies the most useful in this regard, although I am truly sorry this nuisance has unfortunately entered your life. I have learned so much from your writing; they say "when you teach, you learn twice". Behaviours one picks-up from others, observes and then keeps mentally separate from oneself, is so difficult to do with sociopaths if one does not have the insight you have been so kind to share. Sociopaths are like mind leeches. While you are going about your life, they will come and silently invade the mental freedom you once had. Also interesting, is that they are not all inclined to violence (from what I understand about your grandson's father). Is this correct?

[Mandy]

"In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is King".

Indeedy!!!

[Yuusha]

@Love2Know and R4ven It's creepy how people can get others to do bad things...

The problem is much deeper...

Sociopaths are not just serial killers devoid of remorse (though that it inself is scary...and they usually end up that way because of childhood trauma that led them to think that human beings just were not worth it). I once saw a documentary where a serial killer could talk like an ordinary human being in terms of small talk, but not feel any guilt whatsoever about what he or she has done. It's a psychological disease, and empathy must be cultivated as a remedy.

Some people at the very top have been rewarded by their sociopathic tendencies of wanting to get ahead at the expense of other people's well-being. Michael Bloomberg is an example of this, and he is making NYC a miserable place for the majority of the people. A system that rewards sociopathic behavior breeds sociopathic people as well.

I also saw a documentary from Journeymanpictures that showed rogue traders having a behavior that was pervasive in investment banking. Massive risk-taking can lead to profits, but it can also lead to massive losses. So people in that sector are motivated to get ahead at the risk of everyone else too.

[Mandy]

Also, R4VEN, it is so great you have been able to educate your family on this in time so that your grandson is safe! Do you know what caused him to be a sociopath? Do you know anything about his childhood?

[R4VEN]

Also interesting, is that they are not all inclined to violence (from what I understand about your grandson's father). Is this correct?

Some do, and some don't.

One of the indicators of a psychopath can be that they have poor behavioural controls, and so this can cover a large spectrum of behaviours, including those associated with those likely to become violent - such as hurting animals.

"Expressions of irritability, annoyance, impatience, threats, aggression, and verbal abuse; inadequate control of anger and temper; acting hastily."

I have seen all of the above in my grandson's grandfather, and whilst I see this as unacceptable, his family members just go quiet and pretend it's not happening. To see a mid-50's man stamping his feet like a frustrated 8 yr old is really difficult to ignore!!

[pudinnpop]

Just a thought and forgive me if im out of line here but,can u get the child protective services involved and site emotional abuse??

[sequestra]

To see a mid-50's man stamping his feet like a frustrated 8 yr old is really difficult to ignore!!

LOL... Yeah that's pretty troubling, especially as in this case it's obviously not early-onset dementia. I take it you are keeping a pretty watchful eye on your grandson though, which is heartening.

[R4VEN]

Also, R4VEN, it is so great you have been able to educate your family on this in time so that your grandson is safe! Do you know what caused him to be a sociopath? Do you know anything about his childhood?
I believe I do, but he lies about his childhood, saying it was `blissful'. I have `picked up' from him (energy wise) a bipolar mother who kept his father from him and lied about it. Underlying all that was rejection of him because he was a boy and not a girl. There was just he and his mother and no-one else. As an adult, the only women he has managed to form relationships with have been mentally ill. Bit of a giveaway, that. He has learned to play-act his whole life, so that who he really is is anyone's guess. He's overly obsessed by good manners and being polite, but he lies while he's being polite!

I believe that he has deep underlying trauma, and on occasion I have really pushed him, I suspect for the purpose of trying to get to that trauma. I think he'll spontaneously combust should he ever get in touch with it.

[R4VEN]

Just a thought and forgive me if im out of line here but,can u get the child protective services involved and site emotional abuse??
Really difficult to prove. The courts here are only interested in the child being fed and clothed and not being neglected. The sort of emotional abuse which goes on in that family would be impossible to actually `prove'. Mostly the guy emotionally abuses his own children, rather than the grandchildren.

[Zonark]

My father is a sociopath and abused me, my sister and my brother so heavily that I dealt with a 'dark side' for a while which I turned to because it sheltered me from the pain when nothing else would. There have been times where I felt as though I was standing on the brink of the kind of world a psychopath lives in, one foot planted in the connective greater whole of humanness and the other teetering over the abyss. It is a frightening place that a psychopath occupies mentally. Psychologists say they are very egotistical but the truth is, a psychopath has no self, no soul and that is perhaps the only thing that causes them pain. The only reason they appear egotistical is because ego, the mask, is all they have. Behind it is oblivion.

I think many psychopaths are a product of something that happened to them, that removed or obscured the core of their being or otherwise called its existence into question.

There's this weird, surreal cartoon claymation I found from 1984 that serves as a good metaphor for psychopathy, Satan being the psychopath of course but the children's naivete is an important part of it;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q29CmMHSQ3M

[sequestra]

Psychologists say they are very egotistical but the truth is, a psychopath has no self, no soul and that is perhaps the only thing that causes them pain. The only reason they appear egotistical is because ego, the mask, is all they have. Behind it is oblivion.

That's exactly how I've always likened it; the void, a nothingness of being.

[R4VEN]

Zonark, thank you so much for that eloquent post.

You described the condition perfectly. Most of what I know about sociopaths I have learned from my son (my grandson's father) as he is observant and intelligent, and admits that he too has teetered on that edge - between the light and the dark. Had his own son not been born he may have slipped over that edge into the abyss.

"a psychopath has no self, no soul and that is perhaps the only thing that causes them pain. The only reason they appear egotistical is because ego, the mask, is all they have. Behind it is oblivion"

Those are the words which my son also used to describe the condition - a total absence of self. This is one of the main reasons that they cannot be easily `understood', since there is no self, no centre to their being. It is as though they adopt a different persona for every occasion.


My father is a sociopath and abused me, my sister and my brother so heavily that I dealt with a 'dark side' for a while which I turned to because it sheltered me from the pain when nothing else would. There have been times where I felt as though I was standing on the brink of the kind of world a psychopath lives in, one foot planted in the connective greater whole of humanness and the other teetering over the abyss. It is a frightening place that a psychopath occupies mentally. Psychologists say they are very egotistical but the truth is, a psychopath has no self, no soul and that is perhaps the only thing that causes them pain. The only reason they appear egotistical is because ego, the mask, is all they have. Behind it is oblivion.

[sequestra]

Lol I love that Twain cartoon. I saw it ages ago... Awesomeness :lol:

[Love2Know]

Where are you guys to be up late? It's 10:37 am here....... YEAh some people such and it's best to avoid them at all costs.

[Zonark]

Where are you guys to be up late? It's 10:37 am here....... YEAh some people such and it's best to avoid them at all costs.

East Coast represent! :lol:

It's so gorgeous out, what are you doing inside!?

[sequestra]

Oztraylya mate :tongue:

[Zonark]

Lol I love that Twain cartoon. I saw it ages ago... Awesomeness :lol:

It's so strange to think that someone made that for kids to watch. Maybe whoever made it was trying to warn them.

[sequestra]

It's so strange to think that someone made that for kids to watch. Maybe whoever made it was trying to warn them.

Ahaha I know right? Kids lap this stuff up, I know I certainly did... But I was raised by a german mother on the likes of Struwwelpeter.

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/12116/12116-h/images/018-1.jpg

[Love2Know]

Oh snap I'm 'getting ready for an exam'. AHh what what! Yeah I have my saturn square venus I find that protects me from abusive people, cuz I don't attach myself to others emotionally in the first place. I mean to say I don't place my self worth in the hands of others. I sound harsh but I'm not it can also be a cancer sun 11th house thing/ I also pay more attention to vibes than appearances (though we all have our less intuitive days and can all be fooled). I know for my grandfather, his dad was apparently the 'dread' of the village and extremely abusive. My grandfather was also held in a nazi camp for several months/
Zonark that was one of my fav stories! (though unfinished I believe)

"Who are you?"
"Annnnn angellllllllllllllllllllllllllll"
"what's your name?"
"Satannnnnn" (I would say that to my brother to freak him out)

Also the brown haired kid is the spitting image of one of my old coworkers!

[Zonark]

Struwwelpeter.

I had to Google that and I am now thoroughly creeped out by this little gem http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-538011027440158787 :andy:

[Love2Know]

I had to Google that and I am now thoroughly creeped out by this little gem http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-538011027440158787 :andy:

i KNOW UNDERStand salad fingers a little better...... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuCw5k-Lph0&feature=relmfu

[sequestra]

I had to Google that and I am now thoroughly creeped out by this little gem http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-538011027440158787 :andy:

Ahahaha I love it! And I love you for finding it! Thanks :kissing: Little suck-a-thumb was one of my faves (I always sucked my thumb). I also loved the one about the little girls Paulinchen who burnt herself to a crisp when she was playing with matches, and her two cats were weeping over the pile of ashes that remained. Oh man germans are so good at this creepy shizz.

[Love2Know]

AHhhAHAHAH oh man. I have a good friend from England and when we were little girls she would read me the real brother grimm stories ::: I would be traumatized.

[divine g]

Oh very true I WILL ADD it!!!!!!!!! I wounder what 2 sociopaths courting each other looks like?

Pretty nauseating, I'd imagine

[Zonark]

i KNOW UNDERStand salad fingers a little better...... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuCw5k-Lph0&feature=relmfu

Now it all makes sense :pouty:

Ahahaha I love it! And I love you for finding it! Thanks :kissing: Little suck-a-thumb was one of my faves (I always sucked my thumb). I also loved the one about the little girls Paulinchen who burnt herself to a crisp when she was playing with matches, and her two cats were weeping over the pile of ashes that remained. Oh man germans are so good at this creepy shizz.

Wow that is horrible! And yet not quite an exaggeration because it could happen :unsure:
Glad I could bring some nostalgia to you and now I'm a little more grateful for the stories I was read in childhood. Free from gruesome disaster and filled with cute bunnies.

[Yuusha]

The Mark Twain and the Struwwelpeter stories are pretty freaky...

Satan epitomizes sociopathy.

Zonark, your insight is intriguing. So essentially sociopaths do not have an ego, but they pretend to have one. In other words, they have lost any sense of being human...

[Love2Know]

All they have is ego, and primal drives dressed up in the facade of social norms...

[Zonark]

The Mark Twain and the Struwwelpeter stories are pretty freaky...

Satan epitomizes sociopathy.

Zonark, your insight is intriguing. So essentially sociopaths do not have an ego, but they pretend to have one. In other words, they have lost any sense of being human...

Yes, because though they are aware of being a living being, being a human being has social connotations, it denotes being part of a group. Sociopaths just don't feel that connection because essentially there's nothing under the mask to connect with.

They have ego, but ego is not true self. Ego is the mask, the persona. It is not the real part of being human, the inner part.

[Choe]

Now I laughed about the Struwwelpeter and his author http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Hoffmann_%28author%29 being a Gemini. Man, all geminis I know hate children :rolleyes:

[Mark]

Most people act in a psychotic manner most of the time, but we continually make allowances for each other because we each want the freedom to act insanely when we feel like it. The real difference between the psychopath and the "average person" is the fact that the psychopath honestly doesn't see a reason why acting on impulse isn't acceptable all the time. There are many reasons for this.

These are the things important to a psychopath/sociopath: family, friends, authority, and image. The family and friends are accepted mostly because they are familiar and because the psychopath is taught, just like everyone else, that only a weak and terrible person abandons their family. The psychopath doesn't abandon family and friends because, "what would everyone think of me?" The inner circle is an important part of the facade that the psychopath must maintain in order to be seen favourably by others. (Which is why it is blasphemy to tell anyone else "our business.")

Psychopaths truly show themselves for what they are in positions of authority. They are driven by authority. They eat, sleep, and breathe authority. In the mind of a psychopath, "You never, never, NEVER reject authority, especially when that authority belongs to me!" The "chain of command" concept is what most psychopaths use to rationalise both the abuse they have suffered and the abuse they are inflicting. "I had to suffer because the one in charge said I had to." Psychopaths see the predator/prey paradigm as being the order of society. They honestly cannot imagine a society that could work any differently. They genuinely believe that such spite and viciousness are parts of human nature that must be accepted and embraced.

Psychopaths thrive in an environment of anarchy (i.e. the strong exploit the weak). You can easily see this in a psychopath's household. Sometimes, a psychopath will give a command that outright defies all reasoning and purpose, just so it can be made clear that, "I can force you to do this." The psychopath will be the first one to beat you into submission and then explain why he had to do it because you need to learn. "I'm not a bad guy. I'm just trying to do what's best for you and you don't understand!"

The psychopath is the first one to declare that, "I have all the answers in life that I need," and the last one to listen to reason. They suffer constantly from hubris and confusion. After reaching a certain age, the psychopath doesn't even try to question anymore. Not to mention, they resent people who ask too many questions. As far as the psychopath is concerned, you only need to know enough to be able to do what you're told.

Psychopaths value behaviours, not people. The fact that a person is a person means nothing. The fact that a person is obedient is cherished. Watch a psychopath try to raise a child. For the first few years, everything gets better because the baby needs nurturing, has no opinions, and no responsibilities. After the child gets old enough to talk back, the psychopath will act like a completely different person. "It's your job to listen to me."

At this point, it should be obvious that our society is both orchestrated by and filled with psychopaths. Think about this. Who is most likely to make it to the top of the **** pile? The ones that are willing to do absolutely anything to get there. Honest people are at an extreme disadvantage when dealing with psychopaths. The psychopath has more behavioural flexibility and thereby has more means by which to express control. The wealthiest of people in society have all the money necessary to feed, clothe, and shelter every citizen of this country. What do they do? Laugh as we struggle for survival, as if we mean nothing more to them than numbers and images on a screen. We are ruled by psychopaths.

[Rebel Uranian]

Psychopaths thrive in an environment of anarchy (i.e. the strong exploit the weak). You can easily see this in a psychopath's household. Sometimes, a psychopath will give a command that outright defies all reasoning and purpose, just so it can be made clear that, "I can force you to do this." The psychopath will be the first one to beat you into submission and then explain why he had to do it because you need to learn. "I'm not a bad guy. I'm just trying to do what's best for you and you don't understand!"


That is called hierarchy. Anarchy means that there is no organization of one person above another. The world is a world of anarchy under a facade of hierarchy. Some do not realize that dominance always has an equal amount of submission and vice versa. "Above" and "below" all depends on how you act on your perceptions. If someone says "You always argue" but you do not argue, you won by agreeing with them since they were expecting you to try to argue. If you go crazy with power, it probably controls you rather than you controlling it. The best thing to do to truly survive in the world is to think for yourself and be as rational and skeptical as possible while also developing as much sensitivity as possible.

[Mark]

Rebel Uranian: In any occurrence of absolute anarchy, it can be expected that, after some time, there will be a few strong psychopaths that will dominate the less aggressive, slightly more sane masses. Is there any other possible ending to anarchy than slavery, be it through wage or force?

[Rebel Uranian]

I did not say that absolute anarchy needs to happen. I said that the world is anarchical despite what people may think. It is all in one's mind.

[Mark]

The natural world is absolutely rational and orderly, and it allows you to make your own decisions. The human-created, artificial world is anarchical.

[JUPITERASC]

That is called hierarchy. Anarchy means that there is no organization of one person above another. The world is a world of anarchy under a facade of hierarchy. Some do not realize that dominance always has an equal amount of submission and vice versa. "Above" and "below" all depends on how you act on your perceptions. If someone says "You always argue" but you do not argue, you won by agreeing with them since they were expecting you to try to argue. If you go crazy with power, it probably controls you rather than you controlling it. The best thing to do to truly survive in the world is to think for yourself and be as rational and skeptical as possible while also developing as much sensitivity as possible.
Rebel Uranian... Rationality and Skepticism combined with sensitivity - excellent idea :smile:

[Rebel Uranian]

The natural world is absolutely rational and orderly, and it allows you to make your own decisions. The human-created, artificial world is anarchical.

One could argue that the world is the human world. The world I was referring to was certainly the human world. Why are there multiple worlds?

Rebel Uranian... Rationality and Skepticism combined with sensitivity - excellent idea :smile:

I have yet to test it or even to think about it further... Thank you I guess?

[Mark]

Rebel Uranian: Because every person is a law unto themselves. The natural world just is. It requires no support from you. Even when you try, you can't direct it. Natural law (e.g. gravity, electromagnetism, etc.) is what it is. Imagine the Universe on the scales above and below humans. On the scales of particles and atoms, or stars and galaxies, is there any such thing as ownership? Or "deserving?" Each and every human constructs their own artificial world of associations and interpretations that they use to filter new information. The collection of all "human worlds" is what we call "the human world." So, our collective "human world" is the sum of all the beliefs, interpretations, associations, and ideas of each and every person, agreed and conflicting. We disagree with ourselves constantly and it is only the natural world that supports us. As able to care for ourselves as we think we are, we are totally and inescapably dependent on the natural world.

[Rebel Uranian]

The natural world could require support from me or any other individual.

[Mark]

The natural world seems to have done fine on its own for billions of years without us.

[Rebel Uranian]

How do you know that at least one individual that is here now was not there for billions of years?

[Mark]

Show me one person who can live that long and I will consider your proposition.

[Zonark]

Rebel Uranian: In any occurrence of absolute anarchy, it can be expected that, after some time, there will be a few strong psychopaths that will dominate the less aggressive, slightly more sane masses. Is there any other possible ending to anarchy than slavery, be it through wage or force?

But that means it's no longer an anarchy and has morphed into a hierarchy. Within an anarchy there are possibilities for a psychopath, but it's only potential energy that they have access to. There's a lot of potential everything in such a chaotic environment, not necessarily favoring the development of a sociopathic hierarchy.

Also an anarchy that favors one type of person over another is not true anarchy. There still remains some semblance of ordered hierarchy, the one you're posing being the ordered hierarchy imposed by the 'natural order'. That's often mistakenly called anarchy, but etymologically it clearly isn't.

[Rebel Uranian]

Show me one person who can live that long and I will consider your proposition.

Me.

(10morecharacters.
I like doing useless proofs and I don't care what you think.)

[Love2Know]

I think agree with the idea that sociopaths have underdeveloped emotions in a biological sense vs being inherently demonic souls...... though I guess it could be both......

[Love2Know]

Was she a psychologist?

Nope, a therapist who only got her job cuz she is married to a doctor. My family told me she is a flake........ cuz they knew her. She would have put me on any drug I ASKED for, if it came down to it. My doctor too I go I feel nervous from school they go do you want medication for that? It's nuts......... being trapped in an alter state of consciousness is like hell for me. I can't even smoke funny stuff/ lol I would rather deal with my emotions constructively through a workout or some form of mental challenge or activity. Other people always f ck things up, I do things better when it comes to myself. I always have my best interest at heart lol

[Mark]

As a student of psychology, I must say that smoking funny stuff can be quite a constructive way of sorting out emotional responses. :whistling:

[Mark]

I like doing useless proofs and I don't care what you think.
In that case, you should learn what a proof is and how to form one.

[Rebel Uranian]

In that case, you should learn what a proof is and how to form one.

You should not pretend that you are any better than me. I think this is the first post of yours that I have ever read that does not contain figurative language. I have not done the proof. I was going to do it if you responded saying "no" or something like that. I know that "Me," is not a proof.

Proof this post is terrible:

1. All my posts are terrible
2. This is one of my posts
3. If this is one of my posts and all of my posts are terrible, then therefore this post is terrible
Q.E.D.

[R4VEN]

I think agree with the idea that sociopaths have underdeveloped emotions in a biological sense vs being inherently demonic souls...... though I guess it could be both......

Following on from this idea...............

I believe that sociopaths possess the ability to express primal emotions such as fear and rage, but somewhere early in their development, an authority figure - likely to be a parent or grandparent - began to use them to meet their own needs, thus staunching the development of normal emotions, such as empathy. Empathy develops naturally between the ages of 4-7, so if by 8 a child is not empathic, and acts purely from self-interest, then this may be the beginning of the formation of a sociopathic personality.

Love2Know, you mention `demonic souls'. Sociopaths (I imagine) have souls, but have learned throughout their lives to remain out-of-body in order to keep safe and alert, and besides, connection with their souls would be a distraction from what they believe they have to do. This is then an `open door' for entities of all kinds to walk right in and take over. Sociopaths often misuse drugs and/or alcohol also, and this adds to the delusions they have, as well as remaining open to entity invasion.

I underlined the word `authority' in the first paragraph above because the sociopath learns their craft from an authority figure, and they are then further able to use their skills within an heirarchical structure - such as the military, the church, a corporation, or a family. They have an overblown sense of their own authority.

In the family I have talked about in earlier posts, there is a definite heirarchy, in which the grandmother is the Ultimate Authority, but never acts from it, since she is both a coward and a very poor communicator (unaspected Mercury in Capricorn) Her `lieutenant' is her ex-husband (the totally full-blown sociopath) and he gets off on the authority she gives him. He's also been a heavy dope user for 38 years, so often acts from his delusions, rather than from a position of genuine power. (For instance, he could never thrive in a corporation, because he cannot genuinely figure out the probable outcomes of his actions. He has Mars (R) in Pisces opposite Jupiter, so often his timing is off or he believes things which are and never were true...so he frequently shoots himself in the foot!) Their 3 adult children - ages 24 - 30 - have all been `broken' to the degree they are unable to question or defy the parents. They do as they're instructed, and the parents assure them that if things go wrong, they'll be taken care of. Past events have shown that the parents do not take care of the kids when things go wrong, but the kids still do as they're told. That is a cult at work.

Given the role of authority in the life and decisions of a sociopath, I'm curious about the placement of Saturn/Capricorn in charts. For instance, I have quite strong Saturn and Scorpio on my natal chart, and I know that there were times in my late teens & early 20's when I teetered on the brink (as Zonark mentioned earlier in this thread about his own experiences.) I think that what prevented me from stepping into the abyss was that I had had such strong and meaningful relationships with close friends all my life, and that my empathy was already too well-developed and established.

[R4VEN]

Following on................

The other thing I wanted to mention in observation of sociopaths is their skewed idea of what love is. Love seems to be equated with dependence - which would put many relationships of `love' in the sociopathic department.

Since taking part in this thread I am beginning to ask myself questions about my grandson's mother, who is aged 24. My grandson is her first child, and she was the best and most switched on mother I had ever seen...........that is until she stopped breast-feeding him at age 2. Ever since, she appears to have progressively lost interest in him, and then she began having more kids. With each kid she has again switched on and become Super Mum (or Mom, depending on where you live). Her relationships with men tend to be all or nothing, where she's madly in love with someone one minute, and totally off them the next. She changes allegiances in a heart-beat. I have noted that all her `friends' are people who are useful to her, and who have some kind of dependence on her, and once they are no longer useful - or dependent, such as when she weans a child - she kicks them out of her life, often quite aggressively. Over the past couple of years she has had tr Uranus conjunct her Aries Venus, so this behaviour has become very noticeable.

She's certainly not a full-on sociopath like her father, but she is currently benefitting and being rewarded by sociopathic behaviour, since it appears to be the norm in her family. Corporate sociopaths are rewarded financially, while in her family reward come in the form of being `embraced' and `protected' by other family members.

[Mandy]

Eh, I love this stuff. Fascinating. From an evolutionary stance I wonder if they serve some sort of purpose (Darwinian, that is).

It is clearly not a peer-reviewed paper, but apparently sociopaths are at an evolutionary advantage! http://www.criminalprofiling.com/Psychopathy-An-Evolutionary-Perspective_s289.html

[Love2Know]

It is clearly not a peer-reviewed paper, but apparently sociopaths are at an evolutionary advantage! http://www.criminalprofiling.com/Psychopathy-An-Evolut
ionary-Perspective_s289.html

Intense resting but psychos go so nuts cuz they are always suffering, in pain if they realize it or not, they have a hole in them. Humans need each other to learn from..

[Mandy]

I think psychopathy is a natural adaptation to the psycho society we live in. Further to Mark's post above about society being psychopathic, we are winding up with two classes of people: The sensitive and caring, and the insensitive and exploiting. The sensitive and caring are then the ones likely to suffer as a result of the environment they are in, with symptoms such as anxiety, depression etc., and as L2K shares, these people are by large silenced with drugs, leaving the other set to be the (undrugged) majority which perpetuates through generations, from an evolutionary standpoint, being the more attractive mate for obvious reasons.

I think the human brain is, or can be, so primitive. It ***** up (***** stand for s.u.c.k.s) information like a sponge. We are cognitively lazy, the majority will seldom think critically about what they believe to be right, will follow the crowd, the sociopathic authority etc., blindly unaware that, in doing so, they may be slowly cutting off their own gas supply.

[Yuusha]

I have found it odd that the societies many humans live in do not value sensitivity or creativity. I don't know if the Uranus in Pisces or the Saturn in Cancer transits (or even the Pluto in Sagittarius transit which conjuncted Saturn, Uranus, the Moon and squared my Ascendant and my Sun) had an impact several years ago, but I realized I could not suppress my feelings. I think it's better to release feelings than bottle them up inside, even if those feelings look crazy to others and one has to deal with more reproaches from others.

I constantly turned down suggestions to take meds because I wanted to solve my issues. I did other things to find relief from mental anguish (mainly St. John's wort, karate, talking, hoping that I can make things better in this world...), I've poured out my feelings to a lot of people...but I can safely say that I feel much better these days.

In my teenage and college years, I did not feel understood, so I did feel down. However, once I ended up in more understanding environments after graduation, I slowly recovered.

People who develop depression, anxiety and other mental issues as a result of a sick society are canaries alerting the rest of humanity to how sick society is, and that something must be fixed now. It's even hard for people to know what a healthy social interaction is in light of this...

Indeed the society that exists values people who are willing to climb to the top at the expense of others. In the animated series "Daria", Helen Morgendorffer had to spend a weekend at a psychological retreat, and when she was deemed willing to put work before family and inconsiderate of others as well as controlling, she got a promotion as a partner at a law firm!

Instead of having a society that rewards such awful behavior, we need a society where sociopathic behavior is highlighted as an illness that must be treated.

I am someone who values community just as much as individuality. The world I dream about will encourage people to develop a self-interest that is compatible with the needs of others. I am aware that people will always have an ego, but the ego can be good so long as one's needs are in harmony with the needs of others! For example, why do I want a better world? It's because I want to live in a world where I can thrive even more, where being a good person is valued a bit more...And in turn this dream will help others who want their qualities to shine a bit more. I want to belong to this world, and in order to do that, a different value system must be established.

Once a society values sensitivity and creativity along with a sense of ambition that fulfills other people's needs at the same time as one's personal needs, then good-natured people can be favored in this world for generations to come.

[Love2Know]

Yeah or you can be like me and constantly address every singe gut feeling you get. I freakin wouldn't let my bfs friend touch my dog lol I am intense but my dog was hiding behind me afraid of him so I jokingly said 'you are freaking me out don't touch my dog'. My dog loves everyone so if he is hiding behind me from 1 person I'm not going to force my pup near this guy. My bf said I might have been the reason he left, I did a jerking off motion in response I was being very classy. I pick up on danger very well and he was giving me bad vibes. I only listen to myself, now if I get a feeling that strong like 'don't let him touch your dog anymore' I will protect him. He is only 5 pounds. I think this man has messed up values anyways and thinks lying to his wife is ok. I always call him out on sketchy **** and he shrugs and laughs. Like why can my bf hang out with him, if I havea friend who walks into my house with shoes on I might explode let alone thinks sketchyness is ok!

[ptolomy]

I have found it odd that the societies many humans live in do not value sensitivity or creativity. I don't know if the Uranus in Pisces or the Saturn in Cancer transits (or even the Pluto in Sagittarius transit which conjuncted Saturn, Uranus, the Moon and squared my Ascendant and my Sun) had an impact several years ago, but I realized I could not suppress my feelings. I think it's better to release feelings than bottle them up inside, even if those feelings look crazy to others and one has to deal with more reproaches from others.

I constantly turned down suggestions to take meds because I wanted to solve my issues. I did other things to find relief from mental anguish (mainly St. John's wort, karate, talking, hoping that I can make things better in this world...), I've poured out my feelings to a lot of people...but I can safely say that I feel much better these days.

In my teenage and college years, I did not feel understood, so I did feel down. However, once I ended up in more understanding environments after graduation, I slowly recovered.

People who develop depression, anxiety and other mental issues as a result of a sick society are canaries alerting the rest of humanity to how sick society is, and that something must be fixed now. It's even hard for people to know what a healthy social interaction is in light of this...

Indeed the society that exists values people who are willing to climb to the top at the expense of others. In the animated series "Daria", Helen Morgendorffer had to spend a weekend at a psychological retreat, and when she was deemed willing to put work before family and inconsiderate of others as well as controlling, she got a promotion as a partner at a law firm!

Instead of having a society that rewards such awful behavior, we need a society where sociopathic behavior is highlighted as an illness that must be treated.

I am someone who values community just as much as individuality. The world I dream about will encourage people to develop a self-interest that is compatible with the needs of others. I am aware that people will always have an ego, but the ego can be good so long as one's needs are in harmony with the needs of others! For example, why do I want a better world? It's because I want to live in a world where I can thrive even more, where being a good person is valued a bit more...And in turn this dream will help others who want their qualities to shine a bit more. I want to belong to this world, and in order to do that, a different value system must be established.

Once a society values sensitivity and creativity along with a sense of ambition that fulfills other people's needs at the same time as one's personal needs, then good-natured people can be favored in this world for generations to come.

Hi Yuusha.

I feel very sure that the main reason that society doesnt value Quote:]I have found it odd that the societies many humans live in do not value sensitivity or creativity'. is because the majority of human beings are directed by ego.To most people ego is something they glimpse now and again,but not continuously.If you look closely it is in operation continuously ,but because the majority of the time the ego isnt creating major conflict with others it isnt noticed.If we did not have an ego we would find that due to our relatively low level of consciousness we would be unable to set our selves direction,purpose,drive etc in life and would probably spend a lot of time in a type of coma.
Because higher consciousness knows of our limitations due to our low level of consciousness we have been given Ego as propulsion and we are quite free to continue being a relatively low level bot for our whole lives if we please,If we have a desire to get above the bot behavior of Ego( Bot meaning:ego needs no self conscious awareness to propel a person) then we have also been given 'Conscience' which rather than impose itself like Ego,Suggests without force that a particular course of action is not for the greater good,The course of action being questioned usually originating in Ego without the individual consciously observing its direction.
The individual through exercising their free will in response to Consciences prompting is not under any duress to follow the suggestion.
In most societies competitiveness(usually originating in Ego) is recognized as the best way to acquire wealth and power.Also those who are led by Ego totally have no qualms about treading on others to get to wherever ego wants to go.It is inevitable in my opinion that on a planet where the vast majority are directed by Ego that such things as caring,compassion,sharing,love for others,respect for others rights etc etc is secondary.
The day that we have a society that considers 'sensitivity' as top priority i doubt there will be a financial system and societal structure resembling anything like what we have now.In fact it would most likely be the opposite way round,Those who look after themselves through being Ego bots would be considered the lowest of the low.
G,I,Gurdjieff once said that everything on this planet is back to front.To my understanding he meant that Ego:(the organ Kundabuffer) is a retrogressive drive that goes against the spirit and there fore we usually do the opposite to what we ideally should do by following spirit.
If we were to spend the majority of our time following spirit through observing conscience for example then everything would turn around the right way.Meanwhile because we unconsciously follow Ego we are directed anyway but are oblivious of it and are not making much spiritual progress as we are not exercising any true will.

Sorry if i appear to be ranting,lol,Im not having a poke at any one,thats just the way i see our human predicament,And i doubt the majority of people(including me) stand much chance of mastering their ego.

[Yuusha]

@Love2Know

Interesting...so not only are dogs able to detect narcotics. Good-natured dogs can also look out for potentially corrupt people.

@ptolomy

I didn't know about Gurdjieff until now. I started looking at his philosophy, and from what I understood, he sees humans as people who are asleep until they develop self-awareness. With self-awareness, a human being can confront his or her negative unconscious impulses and develop new positive habits. That way, a human being can redirect his or her ego energies in a constructive manner.

Sometimes, one does need to assert oneself, even if it means having to confront others a little bit (such as wanting to move out of a family household). That's where the ego comes in, and you're right, without the ego, not much can be done.

But as much as possible, ego expressions should benefit oneself and others.

I think the worst ego expression is surficial self-gratification accompanied by deep collective harm.


With the economic crisis, I have slowly realized that humans need an environment that encourages the positive expression of a human being. A human being has positive and negative impulses that can be triggered depending on outside conditions. But also, astrology indicates that the human being has positive aspects to foster and negative aspects to control inside a person. Astrology gets to the psychological makeup of a person in an incredible manner.

The outer world is just as important as the inner world it seems in order to bring out the best in people.

[Yuusha]

@Sugar

I apologize if I came across as too judgmental. :sad: I'll be more careful in wording my thoughts next time and be less judgmental, more helpful as well as more understanding concerning this issue.

[Mandy]

I think psychopathy is a natural adaptation to the psycho society we live in.

I have quoted my reply because I want to delineate that I wasn't looking down on you. Whether you are a sociopath or bipolar, or anxious, it boils down to the fact that something about your environment has made you that way. You were not born that way. For example, for children, it is the responsibility of the primary care-givers to provide a child with a stable and secure, loving, learning, environment (where one would develop empathy through secure attachment etc.). As an example, if adequate learning opportunities, during certain critical periods in development (just as an example: http://helpguide.org/mental/eqa_attachment_bond.htm), are missed, and in a world where stay at home child rearing is not exactly realistic for most, the next generation will grow up skewed. I think this is a period of transition. Pathological anxiety (i.e., agoraphobia, panic attacks etc.,) did not really exist 200 years ago, and I doubt it will exist in 700 years. Those who can ride the wave of a sociopathic society and not feel any particular way about it (which is easily achieved with monetary reinforcements), will fare better in society. Feeling anxious or depressed about it is not going to bring money in. Trying to fight sociopathic individuals (of which there are many) will eventually lead most people down a path of sociopathy themselves, because if you want to argue with them, you are not going to win, because they don't care, so for most it is just easier to take a leaf out of their book and adapt, from a relatively young age. More people are blind than you know. Anyway, my focus is only on the role that society, at large, plays in all this (and not any individual cases). Just wanted to make that clear.

Would you like to share with us Sugar how you think you became a psychopath?

[Love2Know]

You may be psycho but I doubt you're a sociopath.

[CapAquaPis]

There is lots of inquiry about the risk of anyone born with a high risk of socio-pathic behavior: serial killers, con-artists and even dictators.

Unsolved Mysteries had a segment about the birth charts of infamous serial killers: Charles Manson, the Zodiac killer, the Son of Sam stalked the streets of New York in 1976-77 and Richard Ramirez, the L.A. strangler who was some mystic satanist, are high candidates of natural born sociopathy.

[Love2Know]

What is a high indication of naturally born sociopaths" ?

[CapAquaPis]

Is there such a thing as a "naturally born sociopath?" I think sociopaths become that through sociopathic parenting.

Yeah, but most likely a big non-fatalistic NO. Astrology realizes humans stand first before god and the universe, and our species has the power to prevent bad things if we use this power over time and space, and our fate in humanity. Good parenting and healthy relationships of people can prevent and undo a negative future to children theoritically born with negative sociopathic star charts.

[Rebel Uranian]

@Sugar - You're not a psychopath if you say you're a psychopath. The biggest thing in a psychopath's life is to look normal, which you just confessed you weren't. You might lack empathy, but you're not a true psychopath. You care if/that you're a psychopath. They can't do that.

(Yes, I'm good enough at mind games to know that you might be pretending. But if you're not, here's your sympathy)

@Mandy - Our environment doesn't shape us. We shape us. We are strong and we can decide to be on the best possible path and once we decide that, whatever happens/happened is the only way we can be on the best possible path because it's the only way we can be exactly where we are/were, which is/was on the best possible path and the only way we could certainly get/have gotten on the best possible path. For that reason, whatever happens/happened to us is the best possible thing that can/could. And having to enjoy suffering is totally not a result of this. And I totally don't follow this philosophy either. And I even more so totally didn't come up with this a few years back out of the blue.

[CapAquaPis]

But the most frightening thing of somebody with psychopathic tendencies is when they enter politics, and a high number of infamous dictators/rulers throughout history from Adolf Hitler to Joseph Stalin, Saddam Hussein to Augusto Pinochet, and Idi Amin to Pol Pot, have natal star charts with the powerful presence of signs like Aries, Taurus, Leo, Scorpio or Sagittarius, associated with authoritarianism, some sadism, lack of morals or ethics, and mental instability. Serial Killers may have a big fan "cult" following like that of Jeffrey Dahmer or John wayne Gacy, but imagine the likes of a genocidal madman or bullyish tyrant possessed a level of power heralded by their natal star charts.

[Rebel Uranian]

@CapAquaPis - What about Capricorn? Capricorn is the main sign I think of for psychopaths for some reason, or at least Capricorn Moon. I'm not saying that all Cappy Moons are psychopaths, just that's what I think of. Cappy and Scorpio Moons. I don't know why.

[Mandy]

@Sugar - You're not a psychopath if you say you're a psychopath. The biggest thing in a psychopath's life is to look normal, which you just confessed you weren't. You might lack empathy, but you're not a true psychopath. You care if you're a psychopath. They can't do that.

@Mandy - Our environment doesn't shape us. We shape us. We are strong and we can decide to be on the best possible path and once we decide that, whatever happens/happened is the only way we can be on the best possible path because it's the only way we can be exactly where we are/were, which is/was on the best possible path and the only way we could certainly get/have gotten on the best possible path. For that reason, whatever happens/happened to us is the best possible thing that can/could. And having to enjoy suffering is totally not a result of this. And I totally don't follow this philosophy either. And I even more so totally didn't come up with this a few years back out of the blue.

Rebel, how many psychopaths do you know personally? I know a few, and believe me, they are aware that they don't give a rats A** (although this is on a spectrum, as Sugar has confirmed) about the suffering of another being, and that this is not 'normal'. Sugar has provided you with ONE sentence about herself and you are using this to diagnose her? Thats not correct practice love.

Secondly, our environment does shape us, whether this is positive or negative, and it certainly does shape the development of children. As a drastic example, take the case of Genie, a girl whose parents locked away in a room, segregating her from any communication, for the fist few years of her life. As a result, Genie never acquired language despite best efforts to teach this to her following her discovery. This highlights the importance of 'critical periods' in cognitive development which depend on environmental input. The anaconda-like sentence which you have used in your post, is impossible for me to understand. However, I will say, understanding psychopathy and child development does require a wider scope of understanding than is gleaned through the subjective window of one's personal experience.

You do not have to subscribe to my view, of which you have seen all but a few lines. I have stated clearly that I do not refer to any individual case, but am generalising about the role of society. I appreciate that human experience is much more complex than that. Personally, I do not subscribe to the view that mental 'illness' exists, but knowing that we know nothing, I am not trying to force my view on to anyone. I am merely stating it.

EDIT: In case my writing is considered suggestive of fatalism, I am not saying that children with a bad childhood are doomed. I am aware that in many circumstances children who have endured enormous hardship can, and do, develop a particular resilience which serves to prevent them from succumbing to psychopathy (or psychopathic behaviour) in the future. However, I am also aware of cases where this has definitely gone in the opposite direction (i.e., individuals who have gone on to hurt themselves and/or other people, reportedly as a result of the abuse they endured). That is not mumbo jumbo philosophy, it is fact.

[CapAquaPis]

@CapAquaPis - What about Capricorn? Capricorn is the main sign I think of for psychopaths for some reason, or at least Capricorn Moon. I'm not saying that all Cappy Moons are psychopaths, just that's what I think of. Cappy and Scorpio Moons. I don't know why.

:pouty: Of course! I forgot the Goat, the 10th sign. Capricorns have the worst tendencies in sociopathy, the opposite of Cancers whom are involved in political endeavours. The two signs have been known for a high risk of sociopathy or emotional angst, as well many Virgos are prone to this.

According to the sidereal or eastern astrology branch, I should be actually a Capricorn in contrast to the tropical or western astrology's 1 day Aquarius than a 27-Aquarius/3 days until the sun enters Pisces. I'm a Cancer rising (ascendant) while Capricorn descends.

Recently, there was a survey based on convicts' birth dates of what solar sign has the most criminal arrests: Cancers lead the list, followed by Taurus (but affects more males). The least prone to criminality of all the signs were Aquarius and Gemini (esp. females) have the lowest arrest rates.

[Love2Know]

I think sugar is male. Let us all observe Christian Bale's chart lolz

[Mandy]

hmmm, yes I am a psychopath, any questions

Yes. What do you believe caused you to become a psychopath?

[Choe]

hmmm, yes I am a psychopath, any questions

Lol What's your chart like??

[Love2Know]

Sugar, do you prefer coffee or tea?

[Love2Know]

I don't eat meat/ why do you think you are a sociopath???

[Choe]

I don't eat meat/ why do you think you are a sociopath???

L2K what is the difference between sociopath and psychopath in your opinion ?

[Love2Know]

L2K what is the difference between sociopath and psychopath in your opinion ?

Psychopaths have a twisted sense of empathy sociopaths have non nor care to question if they are or are not.

[Love2Know]

Weird ask your psychiatrist, how are you psycho anyways? Do you randomly murder animals or do malicious things? You seem to have a lot of clarity and insight for a psycho. Like I heard a sociopath on tv say, he is a hunter and the weak people are pray who deserve to be hunted...... He didn't give a flying **** what he 'should do' the pray had it coming to them in their weakness.

[JUPITERASC]

http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/political_ponerology_lobaczewski.htm The high incidence of sociopathy in human society has a profound effect on the rest of us who must live on this planet, too, even those of us who have not been clinically traumatized. The individuals who constitute this 4% drain our relationships, our bank accounts, our accomplishments, our self-esteem, our very peace on earth. Yet surprisingly, many people know nothing about this disorder, or if they do, they think only in terms of violent psychopathy - murderers, serial killers, mass murderers - people who have conspicuously broken the law many times over, and who, if caught, will be imprisoned, maybe even put to death by our legal system.

We are not commonly aware of, nor do we usually identify, the larger number of nonviolent sociopaths among us, people who often are not blatant lawbreakers, and against whom our formal legal system provides little defense.

Most of us would not imagine any correspondence between conceiving an ethnic genocide and, say, guiltlessly lying to one's boss about a coworker. But the psychological correspondence is not only there - it is chilling. Simple and profound, the link is the absence of the inner mechanism that beats up on us, emotionally speaking, when we make a choice we view as immoral, unethical, neglectful, or selfish.

Most of us feel mildly guilty if we eat the last piece of cake in the kitchen, let alone what we would feel if we intentionally and methodically set about to hurt another person. Those who have no conscience at all are a group unto themselves, whether they be homicidal tyrants or merely ruthless social snipers. The presence or absence of conscience is a deep human division, arguably more significant than intelligence, race, or even gender.

What differentiates a sociopath who lives off the labors of others from one who occasionally robs convenience stores, or from one who is a contemporary robber baron - or what makes the difference between an ordinary bully and a sociopathic murderer - is nothing more than social status, drive, intellect, blood lust, or simple opportunity.

[Martha StoutThe Sociopath Next Door (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/076791581X/qid=1133179720/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-4340866-4794240?v=glance&s=books&n=507846)] :smile:

[Rebel Uranian]

@Sugar - You're a psychopath and a grown hermaphrodite? How did that happen?

[Love2Know]

"ICD-10
The World Health Organization's International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems, tenth edition (ICD-10), defines a conceptually similar disorder to antisocial personality disorder called (F60.2) Dissocial personality disorder.[2]
It is characterized by at least 3 of the following:
Callous unconcern for the feelings of others and lack of the capacity for empathy.
Gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social norms, rules, and obligations.
Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships.
Very low tolerance to frustration and a low threshold for discharge of aggression, including violence.
Incapacity to experience guilt and to profit from experience, particularly punishment.
Markedly prone to blame others or to offer plausible rationalizations for the behavior bringing the subject into conflict.
Persistent irritability.........

Antisocial Personality Disorder and Hormones
Serotonin Levels: Anti-Social Personality Disorder (ASPD) is said to be genetically based but typically has environmental factors, such as family relations, that trigger its onset. Traumatic events can lead to a disruption of the standard development of the central nervous system, which can generate a release of hormones that can change normal patterns of development.[11] One of the neurotransmitters that have been discussed in individuals with ASPD is serotonin.
A recent meta-analysis of 20 studies showed a correlation between ASPD and serotonin metabolic 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid (5-HIAA). The study found a reasonable effect size, (p=-0.45), suggesting that 5-HIAA levels in antisocial individuals were about half a standard deviation lower than those who did not have antisocial characteristics [12]
J.F.W. Deakin of University of Manchester's Neuroscience and Psychiatry Unit has discussed additional evidence of 5HT's connection with anti social personality disorder. Deakin suggests that low cerebrospinal fluid concentrations of 5-HIAA, and hormone responses to 5HT, have displayed that the two main ascending 5HT pathways mediate adaptive responses to post and current conditions. He states that impairments in the posterior 5HT cells can lead to low mood functioning, as seen in patients with ASPD. It is important to note that the dysregulated serotonergic function may not be the sole feature that leads to ASPD but it is an aspect of a multifaceted relationship between biological and psychosocial factors.
[edit]Serotonin Impulsivity and Aggression
While it has been shown that lower levels of serotonin may be associated with ASPD, there has also been evidence that decreased serotonin function is highly correlated with impulsiveness and aggression across a number of different experimental paradigms. Impulsivity is not only linked with irregularities in 5HT metabolism but may be the most essential psychopathological aspect linked with such dysfunction. [13] In a study looking at the relationship between the combined effects of central serotonin activity and acute testosterone levels on human aggression, researchers found that aggression was significantly higher in subjects with a combination of high testosterone and high cortisol responses, which correlated to decreased serotonin levels. [14] Correspondingly, The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders classifies "impulsiveness or failure to plan ahead" and "irritability and aggressiveness" as two of the seven criteria in diagnosing someone with ASPD."

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder)

Sugar if you don't hurt others and you try to be responsible why do you think you have this disorder? Also from my experience with this disorder, I have seen first hand animal cruelty several times.

[Rebel Uranian]

http://www.truthaboutdeception.com/lying-and-deception/confronting-a-partner/compulsive-lying/types-of-liars.html

[Love2Know]

Yeah the image of the sociopath is evolving along with the 'diagnoses'.....

[Rebel Uranian]

Someday I'm going to be a sociopath. I'm too old to become one. I mean psychology is going to be ******* up. Oh wait, it already is.

[ptolomy]

Well said Jupiterasc:

Most of us feel mildly guilty if we eat the last piece of cake in the kitchen, let alone what we would feel if we intentionally and methodically set about to hurt another person. Those who have no conscience at all are a group unto themselves, whether they be homicidal tyrants or merely ruthless social snipers. The presence or absence of conscience is a deep human division, arguably more significant than intelligence, race, or even gender.

I wish there was a way of communicating with the sociopaths that could get them to change their ways,i find it hard to believe that this could be done.
Alternatively we have to weed these people out through people power without violence so that we dont become them.
It might be said that some of the Arab Spring removals of leaders is approaching this type of method,a bit less violence and maybe through organising through social media we may be seeing a new type of governance by the peoples consent emerging.
I live in hope.

[Love2Know]

But what makes you believe you are one because you seem to be displaying empathy and an understanding of consequences for your actions.

[Love2Know]

You sound like you are displaying a conscious though and a pretty solid rational thought. Emotions are pretty subjective and everyone feels them differently. You sound more emotionally disconnected than totally incapable of feeling deeply. I mean this can coincide with being a 'gender deviant' as well. I didn't develop a real connection with empathy till around 19.... but as my father said "As far as I am concerned all teenagers are sociopaths!" lololololol

[Love2Know]

It would be stupid of me to believe you are one or are not one. I am not placing any judgment on it I don't have any idea. All I have is what you have said, I am curious to what you have done to make you believe you are? For myself actions speak louder than words.

[Love2Know]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm I thought it was more like comparing everyone who is blind to how much they can see in relation to one another........?

[Love2Know]

Well you know how the part of the brain which is suppose to feel empathy does not work along with reduced or little production of serotonin, while the aggressive part is overactive...... well it's like the lack of empathy from a biological stand point is a blindness.... I was using that as an analogy.... so it's like you take 2 sociopaths together and try to compare them with one another in relation to 'goodness' and 'empathy' which true 'goodness' should go hand in hand with, it is like comparing the blind with the blind to see which one can see the most........ non of them can so then what are we really measuring....... its not what we think it is.

[Love2Know]

What should I be learning?????????? How do you control your temper?

[Love2Know]

You? No one mentioned you but yourself though?!!!!!! How could you be trashed around? Why would you care? Do you have a high pain tolerance? Do you have a bad temper?

[Love2Know]

but it seems like you are being yourself so I don't know what you are referring to???????

[Choe]

@Sugar
Are you lacking empathy so much that if there weren't laws and punishments, you would kill someone?
That's really the key thing to determine whether you are a psychopath,by my opinion.

If there wasn't Karma,too. ?

[Love2Know]

do you have a bad temper?

[sequestra]

And why do you call yourself Sugar? Are you being ironic?

I don't believe you're a psychopath...

[Choe]

kill people? sure, not because i wanted to hurt them, but it seems fun, i guess its the competition, i'm sure i'd get bored of it, don't really think about it though

'Cause I was watching a documentary about a guy psychopath and he stated something similar to this.
He is in prison for killing his brother cold-bloody,when they were both children.

I can't find the documentary guys, when I do, I'll post it. The guy there even said his DOB,I checked: Capp Moon,Aqua Sun, Venus Sag and more planets in Cap and Aqua I think...

[Rebel Uranian]

OK, that makes it sound like I'm a psychopath. Go look at my chart... :pinched: I don't think Saturn or Mars signs do it. I think it's something else. I'm not saying this for me. I'm saying it for all the people with most of their planets in in 1/3 of the zodiac. Psychopaths are 1/20 of the population, not 1/3 or even 1/6.

[Choe]

OK, that makes it sound like I'm a psychopath. Go look at my chart... :pinched: I don't think Saturn or Mars signs do it. I think it's something else. I'm not saying this for me. I'm saying it for all the people with most of their planets in in 1/3 of the zodiac. Psychopaths are 1/20 of the population, not 1/3 or even 1/6.

of course not all people who are Aqua/Cap/Sag combos are psychopaths (I hope and think :biggrin:) but it really caught my eye that HIS chart was very Aqua/Capricorn Saturn-Uranus connected and predominant;and I remember me then thinking that this signs are cold-blooded as they are saturnian.

Rebel Uranian, I think you should thank your Cancer Moon for making you different astrologically with this guy who had Capricorn Moon.

[Rebel Uranian]

Aquarius is ruled by Saturn too. Scorpio is ruled by Mars.

I've actually thought before that my Cancer Moon is the only reason I'm not a psychopath but at other times I was like "I hate feelings. I wish my Moon was in Capricorn or Scorpio." I've been accused of being a psychopath before (I think only once) and I show some traits but I'm not one. On traits: "A psychopath is a person..." "OH EM GEE I'M A PERSON TOO!"

[Choe]

I've actually thought before that my Cancer Moon is the only reason I'm not a psychopath but at other times I was like "I hate feelings. I wish my Moon was in Capricorn or Scorpio." I've been accused of being a psychopath before (I think only once) and I show some traits but I'm not one. On traits: "A psychopath is a person..." "OH EM GEE I'M A PERSON TOO!"

Why would you hate emotions? Emotions are one of the rare things I like in this **** world. Or I like sentiments? Is that the same?whatever
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9TYtTLtNCw&feature=player_embedded#)

[Choe]

I found it: http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/psychopath/ (http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/psychopath/)

Tell me what you think of this man, but watch it till the end. He seems very honest in his wanting to be a good person.You almost think he is kindhearted. That's another trait of psychopaths.

[Rebel Uranian]

I hate emotions because no one (currently including me) can completely control them. When you lose control of yourself, someone else can take it. I make myself analyze my emotions before I allow myself to feel them. That method is not fail-proof for every little emotion but it generally stops people from taking advantage of me. Some people go around looking like they want people to take advantage of them. That makes me a little sick.

[Love2Know]

roflllllllllllllllllllllllll he does look freaky Sociopaths are made and born............. nature and nurture....

Thanks for the video share Choe!!!!!!!

[Mandy]

I hate emotions because no one (currently including me) can completely control them. When you lose control of yourself, someone else can take it. I make myself analyze my emotions before I allow myself to feel them. That method is not fail-proof for every little emotion but it generally stops people from taking advantage of me. Some people go around looking like they want people to take advantage of them. That makes me a little sick.

I love this!

[Love2Know]

I find that even though I have met some 'nice' people, if I have weird dreams about them I usually question them yes just based on my dreams....... I have had graphic dreams of people doing weird things but are perfectly nice. Nice means nothing can you maintain your 'niceness' ? I am a real person and I can come off emotionless or cold but I'm not just as a sociopath can do the opposite. I am sure I hung out with some and there is nothing more annoying, the useless mean things they do. I dunno... I don't have cat scans but I mean I met some nice people with such a weird energy it would make me mad around them even though everyone liked them and they seemed popular. I have been the odd one out many times in not trusting someone. I used to tell my friends being nice doesn't mean they are a good person.......... I remember this girl my friend was with she just was very personable but seemed so shallow. I told my friend yeah shes 'nice' but I bet you shes gunna steal from you and then 2 weeks later she did lollll she stole from her like I said...... you can't just rely on how much someone is in compliance with social norms you have to trust your gut! Yes it is good not to be so vulnerable and keep your wits about you I agree. I like showing people I am emotional though, I can be very emotional.... but I am not as sensitive as some may think. I do deeply care and I am so thankful for that blessing, that I have a good heart and I try to better myself spiritually. Superficiality makes me go mad, imagine that is all you value? What a course and waste of a human life. Also around 32 mins into the video Choe posted he talks about third world countries and areas of depervation in the world he talks how they are not sociopaths ok I just want to point out that this also has to do with social norms..... if everyone around you is poor starving deprived and being spanked it isnt really gunna have the same social 'shock' affect as it would if this was you in the middle north america suburbia...... I read in a psych course that if you spank your kids and come from a culture where it is acceptable or normal then it isnt gunna have the same 'traumatic' affect it would as if you do this within a culture which deems it abusive. This is because the child is more likely to perceive their situation as normal and not that they are just a victim of abuse or what not. I just wanted to mention that it is about deviating from the 'norm' and that also has to do with how the child will perceive and process said trauma. Also our enviornment shapes our brain and our brain can reroute synaptic roots/connections even if it is just listening to a new song more than once. The connection will have been constructed so we will enjoy the song more due to the familiarity which is created.

[Choe]

er.. he's not really a likeable person, he doesn't have the look, it'd be hard for him to convince others, i don't believe he'd could get away with anything, they should interview an attractive psychopath

haha you're right, but I was talking about his voice, so tender like an honest man.Other videos of psychopaths I have watched, they are all kinda uglish, but they have soft speaking voice,which I assume is an act.

Ok,he's freaky looking,but I don't really focus on attractiveness once I hear the person talking or get close to her. Are you also shallow? :cool:

'Cause I can like quite ugly people,if their character suits/tickles me.

[Choe]

Also around 32 mins into the video Choe posted he talks about third world countries and areas of depervation in the world he talks how they are not sociopaths ok I just want to point out that this also has to do with social norms..... if everyone around you is poor starving deprived and being spanked it isnt really gunna have the same social 'shock' affect as it would if this was you in the middle north america suburbia...... I read in a psych course that if you spank your kids and come from a culture where it is acceptable or normal then it isnt gunna have the same 'traumatic' affect it would as if you do this within a culture which deems it abusive. This is because the child is more likely to perceive their situation as normal and not that they are just a victim of abuse or what not. I just wanted to mention that it is about deviating from the 'norm' and that also has to do with how the child will perceive and process said trauma. Also our enviornment shapes our brain and our brain can reroute synaptic roots/connections even if it is just listening to a new song more than once. The connection will have been constructed so we will enjoy the song more due to the familiarity which is created.

Oh that's so correct. Environment and familiarity shape our taste,more specific our likings and preferences , for songs particularly :w00t:

[Love2Know]

Yeah I focus on peoples eyes more than anything, which in some cultures is a challenge lollllllllllllll I can read the eyes the best when I talk to people though better than other facial movements.... hmmmmm......... He was an Aquarius the dude in the video lol seemed like a typical one too though lollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll and the things on his life walll were pretty aqua....... John Lennon the polar bears symbolizing unity the feature for change lollllllllllllllllll He seemed like a weirdo outcast with serious rage issues....... Yeah I am generalizing but every single Aqua girlfriend of mine would send me animal pictures on a regular bases. Also good to rant my crazy theories to though....... Geminis lesser they just want to rant their own ahah

[Rebel Uranian]

@Mandy - Are you saying I'm a psychopath or something? I actually think I have the genetics or whatever for it, but I did not have the conditions. I didn't understand what good and evil were for the longest time, but I don't have a very high self-opinion and I care about other people a lot. I hope I didn't scare anyone with that bit about not understanding good/evil during the time conscience develops...

[Choe]

@Mandy - Are you saying I'm a psychopath or something? I actually think I have the genetics or whatever for it, but I did not have the conditions. I didn't understand what good and evil were for the longest time, but I don't have a very high self-opinion and I care about other people a lot. I hope I didn't scare anyone with that bit about not understanding good/evil during the time conscience develops...

I think psychopaths understand good/evil difference.

Yet it's silly for me when we say us the normal good people and them the psychopaths.

I don't believe there is 100% good person.. Many people have at least a bit psychopathic in them. The real psychopaths just have it in large doses.

[Rebel Uranian]

I read that they didn't somewhere. I read a few places that they don't have conscience, which is the same thing. By understand, I mean understand, not have a definition.

[Choe]

I read that they didn't somewhere. I read a few places that they don't have conscience, which is the same thing. By understand, I mean understand, not have a definition.

I think I've read that they know right from wrong, but choose to do the bad anyway. THAT means not having conscience.Or morals.Or soul. However.

[Mark]

Everyone is psychotic to some extent. The ones who get labeled psychopaths are just a little more so than most.

The truly scary part is how small the difference is between an emotionless abuser and "the average person."

[Rebel Uranian]

Yet it's silly for me when we say us the normal good people and them the psychopaths.

I don't believe there is 100% good person.. Many people have at least a bit psychopathic in them. The real psychopaths just have it in large doses.

Thinking like this is why I'm so ******* up. That, and morality was generally associated with actions themselves rather than motivations for actions when my conscience was developing. I also kept having things repeated to me like "as long as you don't understand why someone would kill someone you're OK," and "there are some people who are purely and inherently evil, and everyone else is good." Who doesn't understand why someone would kill someone, and who is pure good or evil? You can only say that you couldn't kill someone if you tried to kill someone, but otherwise you can't say that because you don't know if you could kill someone if you tried. And once you tried, you tried, so you can't say that you couldn't try to kill someone or think about killing someone. We're all killers. We're all evil. I don't know why I don't feel guilty about being evil. For a long while I decided not to care very much about morals or good and evil, and instead directly care about people. I still think heaven is a cynical ("people are selfish") concept, because we shouldn't need fear of punishment (or desire of reward) as our sole motivation for doing what's right, because that says that no one can care about anybody else (and that no one is a stoic or masochist who can cause a paradox with these kinds of things, but that's off-topic.) We shouldn't need some vague concept of good and evil to distinguish right from wrong either. I mean, what's good? More right than wrong? How do you even measure that to compare it to the amount of wrongness and tell?

[Choe]

Thinking like this is why I'm so ******* up. That, and morality was generally associated with actions themselves rather than motivations for actions when my conscience was developing. I also kept having things repeated to me like "as long as you don't understand why someone would kill someone you're OK," and "there are some people who are purely and inherently evil, and everyone else is good." Who doesn't understand why someone would kill someone, and who is pure good or evil? You can only say that you couldn't kill someone if you tried to kill someone, but otherwise you can't say that because you don't know if you could kill someone if you tried. And once you tried, you tried, so you can't say that you couldn't try to kill someone or think about killing someone. We're all killers. We're all evil. I don't know why I don't feel guilty about that. For a long while I decided not to care very much about morals or good and evil, and instead directly care about people. I still think heaven is a cynical ("people are selfish") concept, and this is not an off-topic statement. We should stop thinking about our morals and our karma and our afterlife and go directly to the reason for these things. Basically, treat the disease, not the symptoms (the disease is a lack of caring about people.) That's right and wrong, by which I don't mean good and evil. Good and evil are just such vague concepts, at least to me.

Ok, with the part I understood I mostly agree. But the bold is very alarming to me, Rebel! R.Ramirez(psychopathic killer) stated the exact same thing, and he was a satanist who endorsed his acts through this belief.

[Rebel Uranian]

Yes, but we should try to be good, or get as close as we can (again, define good and evil.) Notice the part at the end where I have trouble defining good and evil. The statement "we're all evil" is a contradiction. It's a contradiction that proves that good/evil doesn't exist or that killing people isn't evil according to an incorrect common notion (don't kill people, by the way.) I proved that notion wrong. Thus, that guy can't endorse his acts with that belief.

(I retype my posts a lot here. Please read them right.)

[Choe]

Yes, but we should try to be good, or get as close as we can (again, define good and evil.)


No, I think we should try not to be evil . If you try to be good that's somehow faking..! We should be real as L2K likes to say and I'd agree to some extent. We all have faults it's ok not to be nice and good all the time.

Just avoid enhancing evil. R.Ramirez could have been good or real(average,normal human),if he wasn't a satanist,in my opinion.

[Rebel Uranian]

I define good and evil as opposites, so ~evil = good, or not evil is good. I think my meaning is different than yours, but I agree with yours in a non-technical sense, since pretentious innocence just ticks me off. I still can't figure out what the good and evil people and things are, which is why I kind of want to deem the whole concept vague and irrelevant and distinguish it from the much more obvious concept of right and wrong, which clearly is relevant. Does anybody more knowledgeable have anything to say on this?

[Love2Know]

sociopaths are very aware of social norms....

[Rebel Uranian]

You know I'm on a tad bit of a tangent now, right? I didn't.

[CapAquaPis]

Sociopathy is the extreme level of evil a very few people develop and use at other people. Serial killers, dictators...and con-artists pretend to be poor for your money you just hand them-and they received for not working instead, are antisocial types of all zodiac signs.

Except the risk of criminality is high in the signs from Aries to Cancer, that "Moon" sign and Taurus had the most arrests according to a study with law enforcement officials on the most common birth dates of criminals. The most violent types of crimes, there seem to be more Tauran or Cancer felons. The risk factor of sociopathy is rather higher for opposite signs Leo (not much) to Capricorn (the most), and Scorpios get a bad wrap, yet are behind Sagittarius and many astrologers claim Virgos are criminal prone but to misdemeanor type of violations.

The low risk Gemini have many cases of financial or white-collar crimes: pickpocketing, panhandling, larceny, grand theft, shoplifting and scams. Meanwhile, Aries is a medium risk sign, and are often involved in physical violence or conflicts. Libra is also medium-risk, yet are represented in some serious but mostly minor offenses. And low-risk Aquarius and Pisces tend to seek acts of revenge the most (i.e. stalking and harrassment is frequent in the Capricorn-Pisces range) and try to avoid tense situations if they can't help it.

[saturnsayshi]

Well, THIS seems like it's been an interesting thread that I'm joining a bit late. I did read/skim the entire thing, I have read The Psychopath Test by Jon Ronson and did watch the two short clips at the beginning of the thread so I'm not coming in completely blind.

I wish I could talk to Sugar for about 60 seconds IRL to suss out what is going on there. I feel like some people don't represent themselves well in text and it causes huge amounts of confusion.

of course not all people who are Aqua/Cap/Sag combos are psychopaths (I hope and think :biggrin:) but it really caught my eye that HIS chart was very Aqua/Capricorn Saturn-Uranus connected and predominant;and I remember me then thinking that this signs are cold-blooded as they are saturnian.

Cap/Aqua/Sag reporting! I'm definitely not a psychopath (not that I'd tell you if I were!). :) HOWEVER, I will fully cop to being amongst some shady astrological company -- JOSEPH SMITH anyone (also a Cap sun, Aqua moon)? >_<

The bottom line is that if 1 in 100 people are psychopaths/sociopaths, we can't just imprison them for having a cognitive dysfunction. Even if we could prove that they are more likely to commit violent crimes, it'd make for scary governmental systems when "thoughtcrimes" equal real guilt. No matter what, I believe in free will (of which sociopaths and psychopaths have plenty!). In fact, one could argue that if part of being a psychopath is being genetically predispositioned towards it, natural selection actually FAVORS psychopathy simply because psychopaths can be so likeable for such long periods of time that they attract romantic partners, get married, have families, etc.. thereby passing on their genes. My mother was married to a psychopath and had two kids by him (my older half-siblings) before she really understood how freaking scary he was.

[CapAquaPis]

...or anyone born on a day in the Age of Aries to mark the start of a new age of Pisces about 2000 years ago in a cusp Caprircorn/Aquarius night: We know him and his name is very holy to billions of people (guess who). We hear much about the "antichrist" that many astrologers like Nostradamus predicted 2 our of 3 of them so far: Napoleon was the other and his birthdate is a cusp Leo/ Virgo: August 14-21 (unknown date, the sun entered signs differently in the 18th century), 1769 in the island of Corsica belonged to France.

Now I like to bring up someone infamous born on the cusp Aries/Taurus day: April 20, 1889 of an Austrian man named Adolf Hitler. His psychotic paranoid delusional attitude on politics, economics and race or religious groups, but his rise to power was channeling his hatred by unique oratory skill and hand gestures, and bogus theories to convince an ashamed people: Germany and Austria, defeated by World War I, suffering from postwar hyperinflation and the great depression ended up voting for him.

And one famous Capricornian: Martin Luther King Jr. reportedly born on January 18 (or was it the 15th, sidereal cusp Sagittarius/ Capricorn, also claimed by Jesus Christ) is the total opposite of Hitler, and being a reverend to serve his Christian church, he preached the importance of racial equality, pacifist activism and unity of Americans and humans around the world regardless of ones' race, color and culture.

[Love2Know]

saturnsayshi, I have heard this theory of passing on genetics and also by biological sociologists that our ultimate goal is mating, and this is why we feel love and emotions and attachment to secure the bond mate and raise children. Yet with a sociopath, they ultimately wouldn't wanna stick around for long wouldn't they wanna go out and mate with as many people as possible.....(I know this is also another specific issue) but lets say like back in the day the sociopath mates leaves the family of the cave men and their kids get eaten by a wooly mammoth....... wouldn't the devoted father raise kids more successfully? Also, I am highly competitive and aggressive but I control it because I have a good heart and empathy. I don't see how their advantage is higher than mine.

[sequestra]

Yet with a sociopath, they ultimately wouldn't wanna stick around for long wouldn't they wanna go out and mate with as many people as possible.....(I know this is also another specific issue) but lets say like back in the day the sociopath mates leaves the family of the cave men and their kids get eaten by a wooly mammoth....... wouldn't the devoted father raise kids more successfully?

Cuckolding. Leave the kids behind so some poor sap can rear your progeny while you go and spread your seed further afar... Here, there, everywhere, in your hair...

[Love2Know]

Cuckolding. Leave the kids behind so some poor sap can rear your progeny while you go and spread your seed further afar... Here, there, everywhere, in your hair...

yeah and raise your kid to overthrow you......... plus dont we all have similar genetics but like all slightly different but they all came from the same place.

[saturnsayshi]

but lets say like back in the day the sociopath mates leaves the family of the cave men and their kids get eaten by a wooly mammoth....... wouldn't the devoted father raise kids more successfully?

Cuckolding. Leave the kids behind so some poor sap can rear your progeny while you go and spread your seed further afar... Here, there, everywhere, in your hair...

Omg sequestra and love2know, now I'm cracking up thinking about some kind of Neanderthal/Australopithecus sociopath going cave-hopping and seducing all the ladies. *giggles* Truthfully, I don't know how far back we have evidence of sociopathic personalities, so your guess is probably as good as mine.


speak your mind chap

I did. :) I think other forum members have tried unsuccessfully to figure out what you are about, and I agree with them that based on your text alone, I would not find you to exhibit WHAT I WOULD EXPECT a sociopath to act like at all. However, my idea of you is incomplete because I've never met you and a lot of important clues are lost when we can't see body language, etc (Well, not for you if you're a sociopath, but for me anyways...). I would be foolish to assume that I know you better than yourself or that I'm in a better position to give or withdraw a serious psychological diagnosis, so that puts us all at a stalemate.

[Mark]

I don't know what the **** you guys are talking about, but I just put on Yakety Sax and watched that animated gif in Sugar's post for a while. Now THAT was fun. :lol:

If you don't have the mp3, just play this in the background:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnHmskwqCCQ

It never gets old!

[Love2Know]

"I would be foolish to assume that I know you better than yourself or that I'm in a better position to give or withdraw a serious psychological diagnosis, so that puts us all at a stalemate." (saturnsayshi) Very true, as the omnipresent Oprah says, when someone tells you something about themselves you should believe them, because you never know and if they are telling you chances are they are warning you. Then they might go stab you in the back and you act all said and they say 'what I told you I was no good'. Lol Mark

[nemesis]

okay I tried to read this whole thread but no time alas anywho not all sociopaths are killers and deserve to be in mental institutions. I'm sure that's been said but felt the need to say it anyways. I have feelings my sister is a sociopath after researching info on this condition but I obviously cannot be for sure. My Mother says she acts how she does from her underactive thyroid and she's been diagnosed as bi-polar before. Doctors have put her on medication but she never takes the meds for very long. I think socipath is the best case for her since she is a very loud, dramatic emotional being but it's all usually just for show it. She can get upset/angry but it's only when people will not do what she wants. She is not a narcissist but as has been said not all are. It would take me too long to explain all the reasons why I think she is. She's a Virgo/Cap Moon/Leo Asc. 5 planets in the 3rd house (which I find interesting) and only one water planet and it's a gen planet (uranus).
Most sociopaths function in society very well and unless you're close to them it's extremely hard to tell.
I do feel empathy for them as well I think it would be a terrible way to go through life. Never truly connecting with anyone, just acting out emotions that you don't really feel.

[Love2Know]

I had some in my extended 'family' they put on a good show, but their true meanness comes out sooner or later, their main objective is to make you suffer. Like get you close to manipulate you and throw you away when you are deemed as useless. Also wouldn't blink an eye to beat the **** out of people in order to maintain their control if they can get away with it. Or even kill them if they could have a chance to get away with it but they like to use people as pons..... They count on the fact others have emotions and sentiments they can manipulate.

[Mandy]

It never gets old!

Class! :lol::lol::lol:

[saturnsayshi]

I had some in my extended 'family' they put on a good show, but their true meanness comes out sooner or later, their main objective is to make you suffer. Like get you close to manipulate you and throw you away when you are deemed as useless. Also wouldn't blink an eye to beat the **** out of people in order to maintain their control if they can get away with it. Or even kill them if they could have a chance to get away with it but they like to use people as pons..... They count on the fact others have emotions and sentiments they can manipulate.

Nothing like family, eh? It's certainly easy to maintain a nice diplomatic viewpoint like I have because I haven't to my knowledge had extended dealings with the dark side of sociopaths. Well... maybe one, briefly and it was SCARY. There was definitely a sense that that person was capable of anything at any time.

The interesting thing is that the first time I read about the signs of sociopathy, I thought, "Omg, what if I am one?" ...Which is exactly what the author Jon Ronson did in his book. If you really are a sociopath, you aren't worried about the fact that you are a sociopath. You don't know how to worry at all (although you can probably PRETEND to worry).

And thank you, Mark, for the Yakety Sax interlude. lol!

[nemesis]

I had some in my extended 'family' they put on a good show, but their true meanness comes out sooner or later, their main objective is to make you suffer. Like get you close to manipulate you and throw you away when you are deemed as useless. Also wouldn't blink an eye to beat the **** out of people in order to maintain their control if they can get away with it. Or even kill them if they could have a chance to get away with it but they like to use people as pons..... They count on the fact others have emotions and sentiments they can manipulate.

^this definitely I can relate to when it comes to my sister.
she's actually changed her number on me twice when we've fought just because I wouldn't give in to her basically. She manipulated my father into thinking I was the bad guy in it and he wouldn't even give me her number. So basically until she deemed me worthy again I couldn't even contact her.
Unless my sister like murdered someone heh or even still if she did *unsure* I would never cut off complete contact with her I mean she's family.

I used to try very hard to get on her good side. I mean she's my only sister but as I've gotten older I've basically given up on any hope of that. She almost makes me believe sometimes that if I need help I can count on her but when it comes down to it I get nada when I do need help.

I send her bday gifts and xmas gifts etc. but that's about as far as it goes. I have to tell myself over and over again b/c she's pulled me in SO many times that I'm only going to get hurt again if I try an get close again. I feel stupid for believeing her as an adult but yet again she is my sister so... Guess it's my pisces moon wanting to connect and my leo wanting everyone to like me haha.

She is also very impulsive specifically with moving she moves a lot.

If you really are a sociopath, you aren't worried about the fact that you are a sociopath. You don't know how to worry at all (although you can probably PRETEND to worry).

lol this is very true

[Love2Know]

Yeah also sounds like my mom and her sis but her sis apparently has 'borderline personality disorder'.. She turns real nasty really fast.

[nemesis]

my sister has never been diagnosed correctly imo I'm not saying that just because they haven't said she's a sociopath but I do not think it's any of the things she has been diagnosed as.

she definitely can get nasty real fast too wow some of the things she's said to me. I'll never forget them.

[Love2Know]

Oh **** I just looked up borderline sounds like my ex he was nuts, he would threaten to kill himself all the time if I would leave him. I didn't know how to deal with it so I would just say ' Don't get blood on the carpet'. I don't like being guilt-ed, he would call me a sociopath because of my 'apparent' lack of emotion. I just knew he was being manipulative and it drove me nuts. He still sends me creepy messages like 'I moved in your area and you are the reason I have no heart and treat women like ****' and it's been over 4 years so I just don't respond. I am gunna be honest I laugh I find it funny, cuz he is so ridiculous. Ugh it pisses me off he had the same sign moon as myself (leo) booo.

[nemesis]

gosh lol that is interestingly amusing sounds like the pot-kettle-black saying. it seems like they can be so dramatic if they're not getting their way.
I think it's why she was diagnosed as bi-polar because she can appear so cold at times then very emotional but she's really only emotional when 1) she doesn't get her way 2) it's the appropriate thing to do.

like at a family funeral she cried the loudest and everyone was consoling her but she wasn't even ever close to the deceased.

ah well I'm sure his moon isn't in the same house or anything as yours.

I think when Leo is placed badly it can be extremely chaotic/volcanic. I'm a Leo myself so I am not saying that out of any kind of dislike of the sign.

[Love2Know]

Omg yeah sounds like something he would do too, and he would act all nice to his friends and parents and then come tell me how much he thought they were all disgusting useless pigs. I went and told all our mutual friends what he was saying about them and he lost a lot of friends and he blamed me for ruining his life. I warned him if you don't stop spreading all this 2 faced hate I will tell them all what you say, cuz it would **** me off a lot. He even tried to physically attack me at the end he really went nuts.

[Mark]

The only way to deal with a sociopath is to take away their power, which is their ability to manipulate or overwhelm you. Sociopaths can't be comfortable if they don't feel like they're in control. Then, when they are in control, they make sure no one else is comfortable. You don't have to reject them from your life totally, but this may be necessary if you don't have what it takes to handle them face to face. They will make themselves a constant drain and will never be trustworthy. They will force you to be as distant and emotionless as they are. If you want to remain in control of yourself, then you cannot acquiesce to any threat from a sociopath, especially suicide threats. Seriously, if you've tried to kill yourself a dozen times and still haven't succeeded, then you didn't really want to die. It was just a tool. Anyone who really wants to die cannot be stopped.

[nemesis]

haha :lol: you probably saved his former friends a lot of grief. they are great at making friends and things of that sort. "charming" is definitely a perfect word for them. well... when they wanna be charming anyways which a lot of the time they are not.
wow :( that is terrible I'm glad you got out before it got worse.
she talks badly of our dad and mom a lot but if I say anything remotely negative about them she'll try and defend them it's like... idk like she doesn't even realise the things she says and feels I suppose that it's appropriate to defend them. I'm not sure.

my sister has actually threatened to kill herself as well.

that's very true mark and I have read that but when it's your sister whom you basically are connected to by blood for life it makes it so much harder. As the years go by I get better and better at it though.

I have read that by the time someone is 13 it is too late to turn them around if they are a sociopath. You have to get them into treatment at a very young age or else it's useless.

[Love2Know]

Yes I am sorry to hear that about your sister, that is horrible. I didn't take him seriously either, he would call me saying he oded and was in the hospital cuz of me and **** and I would just hang up on him. Apparently this made me the sociopath hah! I don't have that much power over people.. I don't blame myself for any of his actions he has himself to blame as I take responsibility for my own. Yeah but when he tried to strangle me and I was drunk and he was stalking me back from a club I have no idea how he knew where I was. I was so intoxicated I was numb to pain and I ended up kicking the **** out of him and he was on the floor 'crying' and I just threatened to call the police if I ever see him again. So for the past several years he just randomly tries to contact me via the internet. I never return the messages.

[nemesis]

thank you L2K and whoa that's just :( well I'm really happy you got away from him and realise those are his problems not yours. you should get a restraining order on him or something. so he can't even contact you or be by you.

http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

^this is a good brief explanation on the many signs of a sociopath.

[Love2Know]

Yeah but the threat of contacting the authorities made him go away physically, I just ignore his stupid messages. He never scared me or created any amount of fear in me besides severe annoyance.

[Mark]

A restraining order can be interpreted by a sociopath as, "(s)he's trying to stay connected to me." Yes, it's entirely backward, but that's why they're called "sociopaths." Not to mention, the restraining order isn't enforced until after he breaks it.

[nemesis]

fair enough atleast he's leaving you alone for the most part L2K.

I am doing my best to not even text her back if she texts me. I think it's best if I just send her cards every now n then and things like that.

that makes sense in a way bout the restraining order cause they do think everything is about them.

[Love2Know]

Yeah he wants my attention and 'admiration'. My mom adopted the same philosophy with her sister. Cuz even a phone call from her sister makes her go nuts but she has had the same situation as yourself nemesis and it is hard to watch because she wants to be able to love her so much. Their father was a full blown psycho and he would try to lure them in just so he could hurt them as much as possible then throw them away again. It is no wonder her sister is crazy.

[nemesis]

yes I feel the same way as your mom about my sister =/

that is terrible about their father I mean a sisteri s bad enough but a father is even worse.

my father isn't exactly a sociopath but an extremely immature person and volatile. he has the absolute worse temper not like physically abusive but he'll definitely throw chairs, break down doors and things of that sort. basically a bully.

[Love2Know]

Shittttt sorry to hear that!!!!! Their father used to force them to bond with animals then make them watch as he would torture them and cut their throats and disgusting **** I can't even fully listen when she tells me about it. She said he derived great joy from their horror. They were not allowed to have friends or anything, she had to run away from that hell house.

[nemesis]

thanks =/ ya wasn't the best enviroment to grow up in. like if I turned up the heat too high he'd yell at me like a drill sargeant right in my face heh.

but nothing compared to that wow... abusing animals is one of the first signs of a psychopath.

I feel so bad for your mom and her sister :( she was very smart to know to get away from there. Atleast she was able to survive it and realise that behavior is not normal.

I think when kids grow up with that sort of thing they just naturally assume it is the norm or what you're suppose to do.

[Love2Know]

Yes I can not imagine a dad like that, my dad is super airy vibe and all about logic and being rational.. he is an opposite of her father as well and she told me that is one of the main reasons she chose to marry him. She said she learnt her morals and values and what was normal from those old school family tv shows. She said her sister never gave up on trying to win their dad's approval and it drove her mad.

[nemesis]

that is very good too she is a very smart woman and they say tv is bad for you psh that's really cool though :D

I think I just learned them on my own really. like how that kind of anger my father showed wasn't rational at all. no reason for it whatsoever.
he still upsets me because he gets fired up so easily but luckily I do not live with him so he's usually better just on the phone or a short visit.

I think living on my own got me to really know myself better and to evaluate so many things about me and the people around me without other influences dragging me down.

it's funny though on dr.phil once I saw a father yelling at his daughters how my dad used to yell at us and he called him a bully.

I think it's a good word for my father so I started to use it as well.

[nemesis]

ah my sister just manipulates my father never really tried to win his approval but since she is able to manipulate him into giving her a lot of money so much. when I was in dire need of a loan once he couldn't afford to help me cause he had just basically paid for my sister to move to another state and drove her there and everything. so that drives me nuts... he pays for SO much for her oh and she gets a monthly allowance from my mother too (my mom and dad are divorced) she's a full grown adult and my parents arent rich or anything.

[saturnsayshi]

Wow nemesis and L2K, I wouldn't wish those life experiences on anyone, but it does make you wise early on as to how to avoid the crazies and stay in control of yourself and your life, lest someone decide to take control of it for you. Some people really don't have any hearts to break, so they go about breaking yours (through whatever emotional or physical abuse they can think of) for their amusement.

Also, L2K, I think that's strangely hilarious that your ex wanted to call YOU the sociopath for beating the **** out of him in self defense. I know that's not a funny situation at all, but...omg, GO YOU!

[Love2Know]

Yeah that is very horrible, dr phil is right that is a good word a bully....... meanness is cowardly in my eyes. If I am mean I call myself a coward as well. Like the ex bf I dated, I didn't play into his games cuz I felt they were morally weak and he was spreading hate which is stupidity in my books. I only dated him for 4 months by the way, that is another messed up thing. When I really saw how two faced he was being I left him right away and that is when he went crazy. Yeah saturn, I felt blessed I got the opportunity to kick his ***...

[nemesis]

thank you saturn and yes it definitely makes you grow up quick that's for sure.

yeah unfortunately if someone is a sociopath as soon and you start doing something they don't want you to do or say they'll turn on you in the blink of an eye.

I try my best not to get angry at people or yell and instead try an see their side of it and try to work out a compromise. sadly some people just wanna argue and not listen =/
the only people who really rile me up are people who either think they're above me or people who act like they know everything (including me) and start going on about how I am and what I should do to fix it etc.

[Rebel Uranian]

the means justify the ends

I thought it was "the ends justify the means."

[Rebel Uranian]

What does that have to do with rap music?

[nemesis]

-never mind this post it's irrelevant now-

[serafin5]

Sounds like my biological grandfather, he would whisper things to people to get them to do his bidding. He even coooked his neighbors cat and fed it to him unknowingly. He was a torturous man. He found stuff like this amusing. I would hide behind my mom as a kid from him the few times I met him. He would ignore me, all his grand kids unless he wanted them to do his bidding. He would tell me to watch my dog or he might end up on the BBQ he would also try to sneak meat into my food, as if I was too stupid to notice.

My gawd!! Sounds like another 'Hannibal Lecter'!!! So sorry you had to be privy and exposed to a man like this when you were so young.:sad:

Serafin5

[Love2Know]

Thanks my mom moved citys and wouldnt really let me be around him. He disowned her when she ran away.

[saturnsayshi]

Thanks my mom moved citys and wouldnt really let me be around him. He disowned her when she ran away.

O_o From all that you've said, it sounds like sociopathic personalities have had a big impact on your life. Thank GOODNESS you're a double leo and not just a sensitive crabby getting trampled on by everyone.

[nemesis]

Not to be bias but I've noticed many people with a strong Leo influence (that isn't badly placed or aspected of course) seem to need it. What I mean to say is although their life may not always be super tough they always need to be strong so the Leo sign is chosen to keep our heads above water.

Not to say other signs aren't as strong but... idk all I can say is Leo is definitely a survivor.

Kurt Cobain's daughter is a Leo sun (born the same day as me) and while she doesn't necessarily have a "tough life" in ways. Living without her father and her mother being who she is I think she was born a Leo to keep her from falling down their paths.

[Love2Know]

Yeah well I see what you guys are saying, I also have sun opp mars. I don't scare easy unless it's ghosts :|

[CapAquaPis]

To be realistic (seriously), one infamous serial killer Ted Bundy was viewed to be attractive and often dressed as an office worker, his nickname "the yuppie killer" earned him the reputation of a good-looking but evil-doing sociopath and he lured in many young women to his trap, so may the Ted Bundy case remind us: appearances can be decieving.

[nemesis]

there's been more than one serial killer who was attractive. it's one of the reasons they were able to "lure" their victims.
most serial killers do not look like serial killers.

[JUPITERASC]

there's been more than one serial killer who was attractive. it's one of the reasons they were able to "lure" their victims.
most serial killers do not look like serial killers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHzV4kSOs0k
John Wayne Gacy Documentary

[Love2Know]

Interesting LINK share but J.W.G IS super unattractive and has a very punch-able looking face.

[JUPITERASC]

rofl, gacy looks like winnie the pooh,
Lured people by seeming dull, ordinary and generally unremarkable

an attractive psychopath would be like Randy Orton
the Night Stalker married while on Death Row -

QUOTE

"The Night Stalker: "Satanists Don't Wear Gold" - The marriage of Richard Ramirez and Doreen Lioy http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/notorious/ramirez/terror_1.html

The bride wore a calf-length, white wedding dress with long lace sleeves. The groom wore a starched set of prison blues, the pants a little too long, the shirt tails hanging out. She was glowing; he was nervous.

The ceremony took place on 3 October 1996 in the large, gray-walled main visiting room of California’s San Quentin Prison.

According to Jim Doyle writing in the San Francisco Chronicle, the bride, Doreen Lioy, age 41, was a freelance magazine editor with a bachelor’s degree in English and an I.Q. of 152. The groom, serial killer and rapist Richard Ramirez, was on Death Row, awaiting execution"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saR_V76UfSo

[sequestra]

According to Jim Doyle writing in the San Francisco Chronicle, the bride, Doreen Lioy, age 41, was a freelance magazine editor with a bachelor’s degree in English and an I.Q. of 152. The groom, serial killer and rapist Richard Ramirez, was on Death Row, awaiting execution"

Yeah and she was purportedly a virgin too. She disgusts me.

PS Where can I find a pic of your cabbage

[JUPITERASC]

Yeah and she was purportedly a virgin too. She disgusts me.
PS Where can I find a pic of your cabbage
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=red+cabbage&hl=en&prmd=imvns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=KMsYT6KcCISm8gOJpN2bCw&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&sqi=2&ved=0CCEQ_AUoAQ&biw=1680&bih=921 There are thirty million six hundred thousand images of red cabbages at this link :smile:

[sequestra]

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=red+cabbage&hl=en&prmd=imvns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=KMsYT6KcCISm8gOJpN2bCw&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&sqi=2&ved=0CCEQ_AUoAQ&biw=1680&bih=921 There are thirty million six hundred thousand images of red cabbages at this link :smile:

But what about your red cabbage? It's okay, I found another one amongst those images - thanks :biggrin:

[Yuusha]

Ugh, these stories are bone-chilling...Richard Ramirez really seems to incarnate the ugliness of the Pluto in Scorpio transit...

But I think Richard Ramirez's crime spree could've been prevented had his cousin not gone to war...due to the social and ecological carnage brought by war, war should not be seen as the first option in government policy when dealing with a problem.

And John Wayne Gacy's story is quite possibly one of the scariest things I've ever heard of.

[sequestra]

I just hate that they're both pisces with sag rising. Both with moon in pisces too. Ramirez was indiscriminate in his killing, slaughtering "equally". I forget the Gacy story. He just seemed so... dirty.

[JUPITERASC]

Ugh, these stories are bone-chilling...Richard Ramirez really seems to incarnate the ugliness of the Pluto in Scorpio transit...

But I think Richard Ramirez's crime spree could've been prevented had his cousin not gone to war...due to the social and ecological carnage brought by war, war should not been as the first option in government policy when dealing with a problem.

And John Wayne Gacy's story is quite possibly one of the scariest things I've ever heard of.
IMO The hypocrisy of a world that pontificates "Thou shalt not kill" - while training and paying the strongest and healthiest in society to kill indiscriminately needs to be highlighted.

Serial killers - unspeakable though they are - nevertheless are then themselves killed in a planned pre-meditated act by paid employees of the State, while reporters and families of the victims watch. Link to "Is the Premeditated Killing of any human being Ethical and/or morally justifiable?" http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40720 - thread discusses the execution of Troy Davis in September 2011

Those paid employees of the state can apparently kill with impunity and without a shred of remorse or conscience. IMO it is unreasonable for any society to expect any of its citizens to carry out such a horrendous 'job'

Who are the sociopaths? Is society governed by sociopaths? :smile:

[saturnsayshi]

I find it scary that Drew Peterson thinks the TV movie made about him is "hilarious."

Go read: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/22/drew-peterson-untouchable_n_1222179.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp000000 03

According to one of his wives (one that made it out alive!!!), he "was a legend in his own mind."

And a very, very bad Capricorn. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drew_Peterson

If I had to call it, I'd say: narcissistic sociopath.

[Choe]

After watching "Lovely bones" I must admit I am very suspicious about my neighbors lol

JK, but is there a thread where we can discuss movies,both astrologically and non-astrologically? I would really like that. There is one about your favorite films, but there are no discussions, just listing of the titles...

[Love2Know]

Yeah Choe go start one, I would like that too...... Lovely Bones was better as a book, well I read it years ago but I found the Movie's 'in between' place was depicted in a less magical manner than which I imagined.. etc still a good and moving movie. I believe that the scene with the Suzy Salmon channeling the goth or whatever girl was slightly stupid. Her neighbour was a disgusting pedophile murderer but I couldn't help the fact that he reminded me of Mr. Feeny from boy meets world. That resemblance took away some of the drama I imagined in the book, while picturing his monstrosity.




Jupiturasc, I agree that societies can host a number of seemingly unjust and even hypocritical aspects within it's self, yet there is a social place and social context for these issues. Basically, there is an 'acceptable' place for them within the context of our current societies, though it is not an excuse for acts of murder, they are generally guided by a 'social system' even if it is not one in which we agree. It is structured chaos that will not directly impact the stability of the framework of our enviornment, unless you're the one getting shot. If you are I'm sure it will be turned into some reason which fits nicely into our enviornment. So, my point is to ask if it is worse to be a solo murderer with an agenda based on whatever twisted personal reasons one might have or is it better to be a killer which is part of a bigger system and may kill a few generally very delinquent people to 'maintain' the peace for the greater good within our environments? Or even future, is it better to keep all the delinquents around and eventually relocate them all to Australia again? Jk :( I suggest the more arctic parts of the world for the current deviants, and relocate some of the Canadians to Australia :)